Ethanol

[Conquistador_del_mar]

I thought some of you guys might want to read this. Bill

http://my.boatus.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=56486&PN=1

[Pismo]

We could get non-eth gas all last summer. Hope I can again this summer.

[DC18]

I thought some of you guys might want to read this. Bill

http://my.boatus.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=56486&PN=1

Try this. It works period. http://mystarbrite.com/startron/
Make sure you read the test data!

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Try this. It works period. http://mystarbrite.com/startron/
Make sure you read the test data!

The Star Tron gas additive sounds like a good all around fuel additive. In fact I will be trying some out since it is carried by Wallyworld - can't beat that for convenience. Bill

[DC18]

The Star Tron gas additive sounds like a good all around fuel additive. In fact I will be trying some out since it is carried by Wallyworld - can't beat that for convenience. Bill

Been using it since it first came out. Have not had any problems with the boat, lawnmower...etc.:yes:

[Pismo]

How exactly does it "breakdown" water...

[hdsadey]

This ethanol fuel sucks!!!!! If it goes bad in the carb it gets a green scum that carb cleaner has a hell of a time breaking down. If you leave it in a portable boat tank mixed with 2 cycle oil, within a month you will have somethin that resembles a giant screwdriver (been here dun clean that out), looks like O.J. Bought a $700 ultrasonic cleaner to clean carbs with and it works tits. From Holleys to Echo carbs.

[VetteLT193]

How exactly does it "breakdown" water...

imagine big drops of water. now imagine those big drops split into smaller ones.

All startron really does is suspend the water in the gas in very small droplets. when the drops are that small they can be burned VS. trying to burn straight water or a high percentage of it

[Last Tango]

Here is a cut-and-paste from my running blog about my boat, the link is below in my signature. I posted this at the end of August last year. The prices are for that time. Those prices were good until about 2 months ago. Adjust them for your area and current date. Check around with the marinas in your area to see if this works for you:

"What I learned at Julington Creek Marina today:

I was concerned about the cost of gas at the marina. They charge $2.95 per gal (today) and it is 89 octane. My boat only needs 87 octane. The price of unleaded regular at the pumps at the nearby gas stations is $2.58 per gal for unleaded regular (today). That is roughly 40 cents a gallon more for gas at the marina with an octane rarting I don't need.

It would be a bit inconvenient to unrack the boat, put it in the water, drive it to the ramp, put it on the trailer, take it to the gas station, fill it, back to the ramp and drop it back in, every time I thought I needed gas. So I was contemplating what I saw many folks at the marina doing today which is humping several big red plastic gas cans and manually filling their boats.

I have done the gas can thing a few times when I wanted to top the boat off without towing to the gas station (to minimize condensation in the tanks when the boat might sit for several weeks). That form of refill can get messy and cause safety issues.

Lucky for me, a Florida Widlife and Conservation Officer was at the marina (no idea why) and was just sitting in his truck, so I thougth I would ask him if there was any law against refueling with cans like that on a regular basis. He said there was no reason that I could not do that, just be careful not to spill any in the water ($10,000 fine) and be careful doing it on the cleaning racks since others might be smoking there.

Then he mentioned that he thought it was a big waste of time and money to hand-fill the boat since the gas at the marina pump was CERTIFIED ETHANOL FREE! Why put street pump gas with 10% enthanol content in it into my boat when the marina gas has NONE! He said that lately the biggest problems he has seen with boat motors is the ethanol. I asked him about Sta-bil and Star-Tron and he said that they work fine, but why bother with those expensive treatments when the marina gas would not be subject to the issues for which those treatments where developed.

All Gate Petroleum gas stations on the water in Northeast Florida are Certified Ethanol Free which includes the pumps at my marina."

Since that post, I have refilled the tank about 4 times with the ethanol-free gas from my marina. Predictably, I have had a whole lot less water in my F/W separator, and I have observed improved performance from the motor. I have regained all the speed I lost due to the ethanol over the two years before it became mandatory. That is about 5 mph at the top end. Cheaper to pay 40 cents a gallon than try to modify the motor/prop to achieve that improvement.

[Cuda]

A two stroke engine will digest a lot more water than a four stroke.

[WifeHatesMyDonzi]

A couple of our small "country" gas stations say that their gas is ethanol free. But all of our large stations plus most of our independents have ethanol. I have always questioned if it is really ethanol free. I just don't believe that a couple of small stores would have a different fuel truck delivering to them. If all of the independent stores were ethanol free I could understand that they buy from a smaller distributor. But just one or two doesn't make economical sense that they have a different fuel truck making their deliveries.

[Cuda]

A couple of our small "country" gas stations say that their gas is ethanol free. But all of our large stations plus most of our independents have ethanol. I have always questioned if it is really ethanol free. I just don't believe that a couple of small stores would have a different fuel truck delivering to them. If all of the independent stores were ethanol free I could understand that they buy from a smaller distributor. But just one or two doesn't make economical sense that they have a different fuel truck making their deliveries.
Exactly the same reason I don't believe a marina is getting ethanol free fuel.
A conservation officer knows no more about fuel than you or I. I thinks it's Florida law that it must contain 10% ethanol.

[Conquistador_del_mar]

Exactly the same reason I don't believe a marina is getting ethanol free fuel.
A conservation officer knows no more about fuel than you or I. I thinks it's Florida law that it must contain 10% ethanol.

I have no idea if certain marinas or stations carry ethanol free gas, but I do know that if they advertise it to be ethanol free and it is not, they would be setting themselves up for huge lawsuits. Why not just ask the marina or station operator? If someone really wants the truth, it seems like asking the delivery service itself would be the best source of information - they know what pipeline or fuel barge the product comes from. Bill

[BUIZILLA]

there is, in fact, ethanol free fuel available on the street...... :wink:

and it IS 100% ethanol free

[hdsadey]

Here is the exemptions made by the State of Florida for Ethanol blended fuels, see highlighte in RED

House bill 7135 passed during the 2008 legislative session. (copied below for your convenience)
Section 103. Section 526.203, Florida Statutes, is created
6143 to read:
6144 526.203 Renewable fuel standard.--
6145 (1) DEFINITIONS.--As used in this act:
6146 (a) "Blender," "importer," "terminal supplier," and
6147 "wholesaler" are defined as provided in s. 206.01.
6148 (b) "Blended gasoline" means a mixture of 90 to 91 percent
6149 gasoline and 9 to 10 percent fuel ethanol, by volume, that meets
6150 the specifications as adopted by the department. The fuel
6151 ethanol portion may be derived from any agricultural source.
6152 (c) "Fuel ethanol" means an anhydrous denatured alcohol
6153 produced by the conversion of carbohydrates that meets the
6154 specifications as adopted by the department.
6155 (d) "Unblended gasoline" means gasoline that has not been
6156 blended with fuel ethanol and that meets the specifications as
6157 adopted by the department.
6158 (2) FUEL STANDARD.--Beginning December 31, 2010, all
6159 gasoline sold or offered for sale in Florida by a terminal
6160 supplier, importer, blender, or wholesaler shall be blended
6161 gasoline.
6162(3) EXEMPTIONS.--The requirements of this act do not apply
6163 to the following:
6164 (a) Fuel used in aircraft.
6165 (b) Fuel sold for use in boats and similar watercraft.
6166 (c) Fuel sold to a blender.
6167 (d) Fuel sold for use in collector vehicles or vehicles
6168 eligible to be licensed as collector vehicles, off-road
6169 vehicles, motorcycles, or small engines.

[Cuda]

Here is the exemptions made by the State of Florida for Ethanol blended fuels, see highlighte in RED

House bill 7135 passed during the 2008 legislative session. (copied below for your convenience)
Section 103. Section 526.203, Florida Statutes, is created
6143 to read:
6144 526.203 Renewable fuel standard.--
6145 (1) DEFINITIONS.--As used in this act:
6146 (a) "Blender," "importer," "terminal supplier," and
6147 "wholesaler" are defined as provided in s. 206.01.
6148 (b) "Blended gasoline" means a mixture of 90 to 91 percent
6149 gasoline and 9 to 10 percent fuel ethanol, by volume, that meets
6150 the specifications as adopted by the department. The fuel
6151 ethanol portion may be derived from any agricultural source.
6152 (c) "Fuel ethanol" means an anhydrous denatured alcohol
6153 produced by the conversion of carbohydrates that meets the
6154 specifications as adopted by the department.
6155 (d) "Unblended gasoline" means gasoline that has not been
6156 blended with fuel ethanol and that meets the specifications as
6157 adopted by the department.
6158 (2) FUEL STANDARD.--Beginning December 31, 2010, all
6159 gasoline sold or offered for sale in Florida by a terminal
6160 supplier, importer, blender, or wholesaler shall be blended
6161 gasoline.
6162(3) EXEMPTIONS.--The requirements of this act do not apply
6163 to the following:
6164 (a) Fuel used in aircraft.
6165 (b) Fuel sold for use in boats and similar watercraft.
6166 (c) Fuel sold to a blender.
6167 (d) Fuel sold for use in collector vehicles or vehicles
6168 eligible to be licensed as collector vehicles, off-road
6169 vehicles, motorcycles, or small engines.
Even though the state laws don't REQUIRE it to be ethanol free, by the same token, it doesn't require it to be ethanol free. I just find it hard to believe a distirbutor would send a tuck just to deliver ethanol free gas to a marina. Marina's use far less gas than gas stations, and I find it hard to believe they would deliver ethanol free out of the kindness of their hearts.

[BUIZILLA]

Cuda.... Dion Oil Co in Homestead has more than one dedicated tanker truck for E90... I watched them fill about 3,000 gal in Gilbert's tanks 2 weeks ago, they sell E90 to about 25-30 stores/marina's in the upper-middle keys alone... it's a HUGE business for them... the E is added at the tank farm before outbound trucking.... hopefully the mix % is correct...

[CHACHI]

Cuda.... one dethe E is added at the tank farm before outbound trucking.... hopefully the mix % is correct...

This is correct. It is to minimize the hygroscopic effects of the ethenol.

Ken

[Cuda]

Cuda.... Dion Oil Co in Homestead has more than one dedicated tanker truck for E90... I watched them fill about 3,000 gal in Gilbert's tanks 2 weeks ago, they sell E90 to about 25-30 stores/marina's in the upper-middle keys alone... it's a HUGE business for them... the E is added at the tank farm before outbound trucking.... hopefully the mix % is correct...
Aren't they required to sell ethanol for cars? That being said,there's a whole lot more marinas in the Keys.

[WifeHatesMyDonzi]

Even though the state laws don't REQUIRE it to be ethanol free, by the same token, it doesn't require it to be ethanol free. I just find it hard to believe a distirbutor would send a tuck just to deliver ethanol free gas to a marina. Marina's use far less gas than gas stations, and I find it hard to believe they would deliver ethanol free out of the kindness of their hearts.

Yep thats my point. The couple of stations that I am referring to are very small Mom and Pop stores that do not even have the budget for an extra delivery charge. And definately no clout to request a special delivery.

[Cuda]

Gates gas is not ethanol free. I took this picture at the pump.
It had the same sticker on the pump at Hess today.

[joseph m. hahnl]

How exactly does it "breakdown" water...

Well technically it doesn't, Like Vet Say's it makes the water molecules so they can't stick together and form globs. Then will pass through the system."just like dry gas"
That said, it's not the water that is the problem it's the phase separation
once phase separation occurs. There is no undoing it. There is no way to get it out other than mechanically removing it or draining the tank.
The other issue is bacteria or rather fungi "Mold" grows in the under layers.
This creates a dirt that will foul the jets and float bowl.

So the bottom line is, You Use star tron to prevent the separation to begin with and you don't have any of the problems associated with the ethanol.

Except, the plastics and rubbers that are deteriorated by alcohol

last year I had ethanol contamination. Used Star tron after cleaning everything out.This year no troubles at spring startup fired right up Purrs like a Lion.