Battery question (to go deep or not to go deep)

[Planetwarmer]

I am going to buy a battery for the 22C today, and wanted some opinions.

Is there any reason that I should stick with a deep cycle battery, if I just made sure to keep the battery charged? I dont have any huge stereo system, or anything like that.

I have had good luck with Interstate batteries, and also Optima. Ive heard some bad things about Optimas and marine use though.

What are your thoughts? Why cant I just use a car battery with a warranty that is twice as long as a marine batteries?

[mrfixxall]

I am going to buy a battery for the 22C today, and wanted some opinions.

Is there any reason that I should stick with a deep cycle battery, if I just made sure to keep the battery charged? I dont have any huge stereo system, or anything like that.

I have had good luck with Interstate batteries, and also Optima. Ive heard some bad things about Optimas and marine use though.

What are your thoughts? Why cant I just use a car battery with a warranty that is twice as long as a marine batteries?


i put a set of group 27 deep cycle interstate's in my x18 back in 2000...Still in the boat as we type:) Probably going to replace them this year seems that their 10 yrs old..

stick with the interstate deep cycle..

[VetteLT193]

If you don't do a lot of wave pounding you could probably get by with a car battery. But for the average person the Marine is better. supposed to have less chance of things knocking loose inside the battery.

Also: If I only had one battery I'd buy a good one.

[gcarter]

There's a huge difference between deep cycle and starting batteries whether marine or otherwise.
Neither one does the other's job very well.
Starting batteries are designed to discharge very quickly during their normal duty cycle. Once discharged below 60%, they don't recover very well. You'll end up w/a 85%-90% charge at best. You may never know the difference, but that's what happens.
Deep cycle batteries are designed to run lights, stereos, and maybe some other goodies in a cruiser over long periods of time (maybe even golf carts). They don't like to be discharged very quickly. They can make lousy starting batteries. Deep cycle batteries are also designed to be discharged almost completely and recover.
All of your anecdotal evidence, and experiences to the contrary, this is what they are designed for and that's why there're two different types..

[silverghost]

I have been using a standard high quality 24 or 27 auto/truck battery for 30+ years without any issues in my boats.
I have two now in my skiboat with my BBC 454.
Always work fine !

[MOP]

I am running regular lead acid in my 22, but I had a Sears deep cycle in my 4X4 for eight years. I did a lot of off road it was still in the truck when I shipped it down to Costa Rica, I will have to ask if it is still kicking!!! So one more vote for deep cycle, and yes this season a deep will replace the one L/A that is dead!

[synack]

I replaced one of my Optimas with a Sears Platinum AGM battery. These are basically the same as an Odyssey battery at a slightly reduced cost. It's EXCELLENT! I'll be replacing my other Optima this year with another platinum.

[Ghost]

Ditto what George said. With no big stereo needs, and with the advent of LED lights, I would think starting batteries (as opposed to deep cycle) would have even more advantage for most Classics. -Mike

[gero1]

i was thinking about buying 1 big battery and running just 1 battery this year. was thinking deep but now yall come up with group 22,27,amg,sears...yall aint helping me much. i am more confused now than before:nilly:

[CHACHI]

I have one group 27 Interstate in my 22.

The boat has no radio. I purchased a new battery when I purchased the boat in 2006. I DO keep the battery on a maintenience charger 24/7/365.
This will be my 5th year with this battery and at this point in time I am very please with the battery's performance.

Ken

[jimishooch]

hybrid dual purpose (AGM) and sealed. put a pair of these in my twin engine scarab with no complaints. full 3 years warranty.
good luck
jim

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_02850134000P?vName=Automotive&cName=Batteries+%26+Chargers&sName=Marine+Batteries

[Ghost]

I nearly always think it is easier to make sense of such things by understanding the WHY rather than just hearing the recommendations. That way, when you hear different recommendations, you have some way to make some sense of them.

Over on our friend site ChineWalking there was a discussion where a really smart guy put up a post explaining more about what deep cycles versus starting batteries really means, and marine versus not also.

http://www.supernova19.com/forumcw/index.php?topic=538.msg3193#msg3193 (http://www.supernova19.com/forumcw/index.php?topic=538.msg3193#msg3193)

You will be overstressing and maybe warping the thin plates in a deep cycle when you use it to start the motor. So if you don't need to draw it down much with lights or music or whatever with the alternator off, you want the thick plates of a starting battery.

This is why I think you might want to consider a marine starting battery, given no big stereo needs/use and if you don't spend much time anchored at night. And LED lights can reinforce this choice further if you DO spend some time anchored at night, reducing the draw-down. For those who DO spend a lot of time with the motor off using a lot of electronics, it probably makes sense to have one of each: start with the starting battery, and switch to your deep cycle when the motor is off. If you have both types, the bilge pump should be run by the deep cycle, BTW.

As far as the durability to resist getting bounced around (where marine batteries have more reinforcement)? I think with the way people usually ride in Donzis, you may want this, especially if the battery is mounted forward in the boat, but probably anyway. The relatively new gel technology batteries, and also the even newer Absorbed Glass Mat batteries may help with this a lot I hear, but I have no direct experience. Here's some description of what those mean: http://www.vonwentzel.net/Battery/01.Type/index.html

FWIW,

Mike

[gcarter]

Mike, well stated.

[Pismo]

i put a set of group 27 deep cycle interstate's in my x18 back in 2000...Still in the boat as we type:) Probably going to replace them this year seems that their 10 yrs old..

stick with the interstate deep cycle..

I agree, grp 27 or 29 deep cycles interstate/die-hards. I got over 10 years on my first and 8 on second. That's almost 20 years with two batteries. amazing.

Buy one big battery, $80ish.

[Cuda]

As was pointed out, neither does a better job than the one it was designed for. A deep cycle has more thinner plates than the same size starting battery, and the thin plates could warp under the draw of a starter. Either way, marine batteries have a better casing around them for the bouncing they endure.

[yeller]

For years I always ran an automotive battery, but almost every year I'd have to replace it because at some point I'd run it dead or I didn't put it on a charger over the winter. Luckily I purchased it during a short period where the manufacturer was giving lifetime warranties, so the replacement was always free.

Now I run deep cycle batteries. I've run them dead several times and they always come back. I even left them sit one winter for 6 months without a charger and they recovered beautifully. I'll never go back to an auto battery in my boat again.

Even if you don't run a lot of electronics it's worth it to use a deep cycle. I've killed an auto battery after completely draining it only once. One forgetful moment of leaving something on overnight and the auto battery may never be the same.

[gcarter]

There seems to be some confusion here.......
There're MARINE STARTING BATTERIES and MARINE DEEP CYCLE BATTERIES.
There're automotive starting batteries and automotive deep cycle batteries.
For instance, golf cart batteries are deep cycle batteries.

Anyone can do what they want, but there're starting batteries and deep cycle batteries for a reason.

My best scenario, if I had two batteries, would be to run one of each if I had a large stereo. I'd also have isolators so the alternator charges both batteries no matter how you have the battery switch set.

[Cuda]

There seems to be some confusion here.......
There're MARINE STARTING BATTERIES and MARINE DEEP CYCLE BATTERIES.
There're automotive starting batteries and automotive deep cycle batteries.
For instance, golf cart batteries are deep cycle batteries.

Anyone can do what they want, but there're starting batteries and deep cycle batteries for a reason.

My best scenario, if I had two batteries, would be to run one of each if I had a large stereo. I'd also have isolators so the alternator charges both batteries no matter how you have the battery switch set.
They also sell a combination deep cycle marine starting battery.

[Cuda]

There seems to be some confusion here.......
There're MARINE STARTING BATTERIES and MARINE DEEP CYCLE BATTERIES.
There're automotive starting batteries and automotive deep cycle batteries.
For instance, golf cart batteries are deep cycle batteries.

Anyone can do what they want, but there're starting batteries and deep cycle batteries for a reason.

My best scenario, if I had two batteries, would be to run one of each if I had a large stereo. I'd also have isolators so the alternator charges both batteries no matter how you have the battery switch set.
George, anyone who will put in two oil filters can certainly find how to put in two batteries. :)

[Pismo]

There seems to be some confusion here.......
There're MARINE STARTING BATTERIES and MARINE DEEP CYCLE BATTERIES.
There're automotive starting batteries and automotive deep cycle batteries.
For instance, golf cart batteries are deep cycle batteries.

Anyone can do what they want, but there're starting batteries and deep cycle batteries for a reason.

My best scenario, if I had two batteries, would be to run one of each if I had a large stereo. I'd also have isolators so the alternator charges both batteries no matter how you have the battery switch set.


Yes, yes, yes and a deep battery will work as a starting battery for years and years and the opposite is not always true.

[Planetwarmer]

I bought a group 27 Interstate deep cycle battery after some research and speaking with the salesman. It cost me $103.00.

I only have one battery, and if this thing lasts 5 years, I'll be very happy. If it lasts 10, I'll be even happier.

[FISHIN SUCKS]

Okay, so did anyone see the article in the May/June 2010 issue of Powerboat, page 40? They're saying go with the dual purpose (starting and cycling) marine batteries. And also make sure you get the AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) technology. I am faced with buying two new ones this spring as well, but I got a quasi honkin' stereo and light system that I need to feed. So, my concern is is the Optima too much money for the fancy spiral case or should I go with the traditional rectangle case? I can get the Optima 34m's for $169 delivered to my door. as always, input is much appreciated,

tom

[Cuda]

Okay, so did anyone see the article in the May/June 2010 issue of Powerboat, page 40? They're saying go with the dual purpose (starting and cycling) marine batteries. And also make sure you get the AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) technology. I am faced with buying two new ones this spring as well, but I got a quasi honkin' stereo and light system that I need to feed. So, my concern is is the Optima too much money for the fancy spiral case or should I go with the traditional rectangle case? I can get the Optima 34m's for $169 delivered to my door. as always, input is much appreciated,
tom
I'd never pay $169 for a battery,but like my mom says, it's part of my ten cent mentality.

I'd get a marine starting battery, and a deep cycle battery. The dual purpose won't do the same job as a battery made for a specific need. I buy my batteries at Sam's Club. They had far and away the best prices per CCA.

[FISHIN SUCKS]

I'd never pay $169 for a battery,but like my mom says, it's part of my ten cent mentality.

I'm right there with ya, but $169 looks like a deal compared to the $199 Platinum at Sears (previous post in this thread).

In the article, they really seem to be touting the latest technology being able to handle doing both jobs with one battery. Sometimes this stuff just sounds like BS so that's why I come to you experts:)

[yeller]

I'm no expert, but a lot of the professional reviews are based on getting the absolute best possible solution, even though the second best possible solution is nearly as good.

Look at how many boats are out there using the standard lead acid deep cycle battery for years and years without problem. If money is no object, go for the best possible solution, but I don't see any problem with using a standard deep cycle.

[Cuda]

I'm right there with ya, but $169 looks like a deal compared to the $199 Platinum at Sears (previous post in this thread).
In the article, they really seem to be touting the latest technology being able to handle doing both jobs with one battery. Sometimes this stuff just sounds like BS so that's why I come to you experts:)
I think a 1000 CCA marine starting battery was $59. I don't doubt they are all made at the same place.

[Cuda]

Back around 1972, I got the old Sears Die Hard out of my mom's station wagon. It was about 5 years old, and she bought another one. I was giving someone a jump, crossed the wires and blew two cells right out of the battery. That thing worked for another three months. It certainly did "die hard". :

[Pismo]

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_02827582000P?vName=Automotive&cName=Batteries&Chargers&sName=Marine%20Batteries&psid=FROOGLE01&sid=IDx20070921x00003a

That's my 11 year old battery that I use for everything. It will go on sale soon for <$100. 27582

[Planetwarmer]

The guy at the Interstate dealership also sells Optima batteries. I asked him what he thought about them, and he told me that they were sold a few years ago and are not the same quality. He did not recommend them (even though he would have made more money on selling me one). I asked him about the Optimas, because I've heard bad stuff about them before on other boating forums.

I didnt test this, I'm just passing along what he told me. FWIW

[thehow33]

The guy at the Interstate dealership also sells Optima batteries. I asked him what he thought about them, and he told me that they were sold a few years ago and are not the same quality. He did not recommend them (even though he would have made more money on selling me one). I asked him about the Optimas, because I've heard bad stuff about them before on other boating forums.

I didnt test this, I'm just passing along what he told me. FWIW

I recently went to interstate batteries myself....I had the exact same conversation. Optimas are no good. I ended up leaving with 1 deep cycle and 1 cranking battery. both interstate batteries.

[Cuda]

I've had good luck with Interstate.

[Ghost]

Okay, so did anyone see the article in the May/June 2010 issue of Powerboat, page 40? They're saying go with the dual purpose (starting and cycling) marine batteries. And also make sure you get the AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) technology. I am faced with buying two new ones this spring as well, but I got a quasi honkin' stereo and light system that I need to feed. So, my concern is is the Optima too much money for the fancy spiral case or should I go with the traditional rectangle case? I can get the Optima 34m's for $169 delivered to my door. as always, input is much appreciated,

tom

Having experienced your kickin stereo and lightshow firsthand, I think you need at least one true deep cycle. I'd go for two marine starting and one deep cycle if you have room.

[Walt. H.]

Here's my input.
I run two 29 series Interstate deep cycle marine batteries in my 27' C.C. cruiser and a 27 series batt same make & model in my 18 CVX w/o any cranking or charging issues.
The series 29 cost me just under $82. ea plus sales tax direct from a Interstate dealer last year & the 27 series is about $10. to $12. less.
My last batt in my 18 was a Napa auto parts 27 series deep cycle marine that lasted from the summer of 2000 thru mid July of 2007 when it started to fail and no longer hold a charge.
I've always been told not to mix battery types and size when running multi battery set ups otherwise the smaller one will over charge, and i've read that the AGM type batteries require their own special battery charge specifically for A.G.M batteries. Possibly read that a few yr's ago in the info section of a West Marine catalog..

My advice: instead of buying the very best battery and letting it stagnate for days or weeks, buy a good battery and invest in a built in type 1.5 or 2-amp automatic floating battery charger that you plug into 110AC during the time you're not using your pride & joy and your battery will last longer then the one in your daily drive car or truck.

[Dr. David Fleming]

Does anyone know what Donzi is putting in the ZR or whatever boats they are manufacturing? Anyone know if Donzi has used the same brand, type of battery consistantly in the hulls they have made over the years? Everyone got a new battery with their new boat.

My 22ZX came with two AutoCraft Marine/RV batteries that were distributed by Advance Marine of Roanoke, Va. Part No. 27DC-2. Cranking Amps 715@32*F. Group Size 27 Reserve Capacity175min @ 90Amp/Hrs.

Whats the word on the glass mat and gel cell?

[Planetwarmer]

Here's my input.
I run two 29 series Interstate deep cycle marine batteries in my 27' C.C. cruiser and a 27 series batt same make & model in my 18 CVX w/o any cranking or charging issues.
The series 29 cost me just under $82. ea plus sales tax direct from a Interstate dealer last year & the 27 series is about $10. to $12. less.
My last batt in my 18 was a Napa auto parts 27 series deep cycle marine that lasted from the summer of 2000 thru mid July of 2007 when it started to fail and no longer hold a charge.
I've always been told not to mix battery types and size when running multi battery set ups otherwise the smaller one will over charge, and i've read that the AGM type batteries require their own special battery charge specifically for A.G.M batteries. Possibly read that a few yr's ago in the info section of a West Marine catalog..

My advice: instead of buying the very best battery and letting it stagnate for days or weeks, buy a good battery and invest in a built in type 1.5 or 2-amp automatic floating battery charger that you plug into 110AC during the time you're not using your pride & joy and your battery will last longer then the one in your daily drive car or truck.

You stated exactly what the dealer told me. Trickle charge the battery, and it will last a long time. AND he also said that an AGM battery uses a different type of charger. You are correct on the mixing two types of batteries. I will ask my physics instructor about that tomorrow. We are going over electric stuff all semester, and he seems very smart on anything dealing with electricity.

[Planetwarmer]

My physics instructor said that hooking up two batteries with the same Voltage, and different amperage will not over-charge either battery. He also said it is also important to hook the batteries up parallel, and not in a series, as a series will double the Voltage. Hooking batteries in parallel increases the ampere-hour rating of the combined batteries without increasing the voltage.

To connect two 12-volt batteries in parallel attach both positive terminals to a single connector. The same is also done with the negative terminals. This can be done with short pieces of wire.

[Walt. H.]

My physics instructor said that hooking up two batteries with the same Voltage, and different amperage will not over-charge either battery. He also said it is also important to hook the batteries up parallel, and not in a series, as a series will double the Voltage. Hooking batteries in parallel increases the ampere-hour rating of the combined batteries without increasing the voltage.

To connect two 12-volt batteries in parallel attach both positive terminals to a single connector. The same is also done with the negative terminals. This can be done with short pieces of wire.
Short piece of wire yes, but it must be of the same heavy gauge to carry the required amperage draw, and thanks for comfirming the charging of a AGM battery.
I now wonder what modification issues have to be performed to the alternator since a regular battery charger is NG.

[Pismo]

Your trickle charger better automatically turn off now and then or say goodbye to the battery. get the right kind that senses and turns off and applies loads, etc. Nothing kills a battery faster than too much charging.

[Team Jefe]

Granted my battery needs are slightly different than most of y'all.....still. I Use Interstate Batteries that my mechanic recommended when I installed the second set of motors in Jan of '04....been a while now so I've forgotten the particulars. I beleive they are deep cycle though.

Also, I have since I installed the new shed at the house I have not been using trickle chargers on them and they seem to work just fine (So far knock on wood) though I do turn them off after each trip.

The other thing I do have (as mentioned previous also) is the stereo and most electronics are wired to one side of the system. I can switch which battery goes to that side or bring both....as most of you who have twin batteries can...and that saves me from running down all the power I need to start the motors. My point is I would NEVER go boating with a single battery...I don't care how big, fancy or "good" it was.

Then again, I am pretty insane about having redundant system onboard. I'm like NASA, I don't take chances, I double up on everything:wink:

[CHACHI]

My physics instructor said that hooking up two batteries with the same Voltage, and different amperage will not over-charge either battery. He also said it is also important to hook the batteries up parallel, and not in a series, as a series will double the Voltage. Hooking batteries in parallel increases the ampere-hour rating of the combined batteries without increasing the voltage.

To connect two 12-volt batteries in parallel attach both positive terminals to a single connector. The same is also done with the negative terminals. This can be done with short pieces of wire.

When you attach a maintenence charger to batteries wired in parrallel, attach the positive lead from the charger to one battery (positive side of course) and the negitive lead to the other battery (negitive side) and you will now "charge" both.
Ken

[thehow33]

Granted my battery needs are slightly different than most of y'all.....still. I Use Interstate Batteries that my mechanic recommended when I installed the second set of motors in Jan of '04....been a while now so I've forgotten the particulars. I beleive they are deep cycle though.

Also, I have since I installed the new shed at the house I have not been using trickle chargers on them and they seem to work just fine (So far knock on wood) though I do turn them off after each trip.

The other thing I do have (as mentioned previous also) is the stereo and most electronics are wired to one side of the system. I can switch which battery goes to that side or bring both....as most of you who have twin batteries can...and that saves me from running down all the power I need to start the motors. My point is I would NEVER go boating with a single battery...I don't care how big, fancy or "good" it was.

Then again, I am pretty insane about having redundant system onboard. I'm like NASA, I don't take chances, I double up on everything:wink:


SAME HERE
I was told by the manager at interstate that unless I personally drain the batteries I should not have to hook up a trickle charger as long as I store them in a fairly cool dry place in the winter. I'm from the midwest.

[Pismo]

SAME HERE
I was told by the manager at interstate that unless I personally drain the batteries I should not have to hook up a trickle charger as long as I store them in a fairly cool dry place in the winter. I'm from the midwest.

Charge them fully before storage (lowers freezing point), unhook and let it sit. Cold is best for storage.