Hornet Marine

[David Hartmann]

Hornet Marine manufacturers custom 17 foot sport boats. The boats are built in Bristol Connecticut. Each boat can be configured for the customer and shipped in two weeks.

I have started a new thread in this area. A previous thread is at
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=51596

Feel free to contact us at any time. We also love an excuse to show off our shop so feel free to stop by anytime. We are located at 400 Middle Street, Bristol CT 06010
860 516 3141

davidh@hornetmarine.com

[David Hartmann]

Give us a call or email if you are interested in free tickets to the Great NorthEast Boat Show in Milford NH. April 9th - 11th

http://www.greatnortheastboatshow.com/


David Hartmann
davidh@hornetmarine.com
860 516 3141

[David Hartmann]

Article about Hornet

http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/component/content/article/4-features/504038-startup-sees-logic-in-contrarian-timing

[Planetwarmer]

I woke up this morning with an idea for Hornet Marine. I think it would be cool for a factory backed/sponsored 1 class design race series. It would allow people that aren't million aires to get into boat racing. Your boats are affordable, the 1 class would limit someone from putting a merc 1300 with a # 8 drive on the boat and winning because of money and not skill.

Racing seems to boost sales. "Win on Sunday, buy on Monday"

Just a thought,
Nate

[Planetwarmer]

Oh, dont forget about outboards. You dont have to winterize them, are more fuel efficient, and cheaper

[David Hartmann]

Oh, dont forget about outboards. You dont have to winterize them, are more fuel efficient, and cheaper
We won't forget about outboards. We have had a lot of interest from dealer on outboard versions. We will develop a plan for them in late 2011.
I am curious what your thoughts are on "cheaper" that is one area where I don't understand why people want them. I am afraid as we put together an offering with an outboard no one is going to want it when they see the prce. a 200hp I/O is about $8000. Outboards that we have looked at are almost twice the price. Is there a brand that you think is a good quality and value?

Thank you for the help

[David Hartmann]

I woke up this morning with an idea for Hornet Marine. I think it would be cool for a factory backed/sponsored 1 class design race series. It would allow people that aren't million aires to get into boat racing. Your boats are affordable, the 1 class would limit someone from putting a merc 1300 with a # 8 drive on the boat and winning because of money and not skill.

Racing seems to boost sales. "Win on Sunday, buy on Monday"

Just a thought,
Nate

Nate, I think you are exactly right. I am not sure if you have heard of Legends car racing but it was a similar model as what you are talking about. It will be a while before we have enough production to meet this market but I will definitely log the idea as something to look into when we get the staff and the supply

[Greg Guimond]

David,
Good luck with the new business. How much does the hull weigh unrigged?

[Planetwarmer]

We won't forget about outboards. We have had a lot of interest from dealer on outboard versions. We will develop a plan for them in late 2011.
I am curious what your thoughts are on "cheaper" that is one area where I don't understand why people want them. I am afraid as we put together an offering with an outboard no one is going to want it when they see the prce. a 200hp I/O is about $8000. Outboards that we have looked at are almost twice the price. Is there a brand that you think is a good quality and value?

Thank you for the help

I haven't done any testing myself, but I would bet that you could get the same performance numbers out of a far smaller outboard than 200 horsepower. I would imagine that your hull and a 200 HP outboard would be a different boat entirely than a one with a 200 HP I/O. To get the same numbers out of an I/O, you would most likely need to spend similar or more money than you would on a 200 HP outboard.

[onesubdrvr]

David,

I can't wait to see one of these boats, and think the race idea is certainly interesting.

As a side note, the article says you're looking to hire IT personnel,... do tell!

Wayne

[Planetwarmer]

I would also be interested in doing some R&D for you. If you need any help getting your name out in the mid-west, let me know. There is quite the boating population around me (ie Grand Lake, Texoma, and LOTO among many others).

Nathan Kerr

[Rob M]

David:

Saw this "pop" hull on Craigslist you might be interested in for future models.

http://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/boa/1776029502.html

[David Hartmann]

Thank you for the info. I tried to make contact but the mail came back undelivered. Looks like a st tropez. if so it is a great deal

[David Hartmann]

David,

I can't wait to see one of these boats, and think the race idea is certainly interesting.

As a side note, the article says you're looking to hire IT personnel,... do tell!

Wayne

We are looking for web developers to manage the development of our online configurator. We are out-sourceing the development of the the website but web mapping and developing of the user interface is something we will be doing in-house. We are looking for two people.

If anyone know any talented professionals, Please send them our way.

[Greg Guimond]

David, how much does your hull weigh unrigged?

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

David i read on another site that you were thinking of moving operations to Maine or R I down the road and just curious would you be interested in a newer facility that is located in Mich that was manufacturing boats at one time which is a state that offers many tax incentives at this time ?

[David Hartmann]

David i read on another site that you were thinking of moving operations to Maine or R I down the road and just curious would you be interested in a newer facility that is located in Mich that was manufacturing boats at one time which is a state that offers many tax incentives at this time ?

We are still looking for a second fiberglass supplier. So we are interested in finding a boat builder that has excess capacity and would like to make hulls. We are not looking to produce the fiberglass ourselves.

If you have any recommendations let us know.

Thank you for thinking of us.

[David Hartmann]

On Tuesday, 9/14/10 Hornet Marine is hosting demo rides of our new 17' powerboat The Model One on the Connecticut River. You can check out the event invite and sign up for your demo time here:

http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs066/1102928002345/archive/1103672514257.html

We hope to see you there and appreciate your feedback.

[mike o]

:yes::yes::yes::yes:.........:):):):)........:king me::kingme::kingme::kingme:

[David Hartmann]

Hornet Marine is opening its facility for an Open House Christmas Party on Wednesday, December 8. We are located in Bristol, CT and look forward to celebrating the holiday season as well as discussing our upcoming plans for 2011 with family, friends, and marine industry professionals.
For more information and directions, click to see our invite:
http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs066/1102928002345/archive/1103971133610.html

[David Hartmann]

I just wanted to try and pull traffic from the event section into the more appropriate thread.

Any feedback good our bad about Hornet Marine should be posted here.

Thanks for all the feedback and support.

David

[jl1962]

Cool Beans, David.

I'm looking forward to hearing/seeing/learning more about the boats.

Good luck.

-Jay

[David Hartmann]

We had a great photo & video shoot out on the CT River last week. Here's a few shots of the Hornet 17 our photographer Ross Monckton sent over. We'll be using the photos and video for future projects including our website re-design, I will post more once they are edited. This boat is currently on its way to our dealer Harborside Marina in Wilmington, Illinois.

[dsparis]

You may want to re-think the Harborside Marina thing. I boat in the three river area almost every weekend. The owner is a complete a__hole. Neither me or any of my friends will step foot on that property.

[David Hartmann]

You may want to re-think the Harborside Marina thing. I boat in the three river area almost every weekend. The owner is a complete a__hole. Neither me or any of my friends will step foot on that property.
Thank you for the feed back. If it is ok I would like our sales manager to learn more about your experiences. you can email him directly at jayb@hornetmarine.com.

We will certainly keep an eye on each of our dealers in our network. It is extremely important to us the customers have a positive experience with the sales and service departments.

We will work with Harborside to serve our customers in the best way possible. Our goal is to work with dealers to improve the customer experience.

We need everyones feedback to continue to improve all aspects of our business.

Thank you again

[David Hartmann]

Hornet Marine is headed to Lake George tomorrow with our newly re-built demo boat. I will post pictures soon of the before and after, we are just finishing some of the upgrades we've made to the Hornet 17 since this hull 0001 was first built last spring.

If you're in Lake George this weekend be sure to say hi, we'd be happy to take anyone out for a test drive.

[David Hartmann]

Here are some before & after pictures of our demo boat. This was our first hull originally built Spring 2010. We just finished re-building it, adding many of the upgrades & improvements we've made in the last year to this boat.

[silverghost]

David~

You guys call yourself boatbuilders ~
You "splash" copy Donzi's old boat design~

Make a few small changes; just enough so you don't get sued by Donzi~

Use Donzi's old Hornet name as YOUR company's name ~

Create a logo similar to the old original Donzi logo.

You're doing everything ~but actually outright calling your "Splash" a "Donzi" !

That's bad enough~

BUT NOW~

You want someone else to actually lay-up the "splash" stolen desgn copy hulls, decks, and all fiberglass parts?

In other words you want someone else to do all the hard & dirty work ~

While you guys just rig the "Splash" clone rip-off copy boats and make all the big profits ?

Geeeeze~~~

I cannot understand any of your thinking here ?

Don't you guys have any original ideas & designs of your own ?

A dozen others have tried to "splash" steal Donzi's design over the years.
Cobalt was the first to try this.
They were sued by Donzi very quickly~
They were soon forced to stop building these rip-off design copy boats.

In MY opinion~
All of you "splash" guys are just fast-buck $$$ rip-off artists.

What you are doing might just be barely legal~
But just plain un-ethical.

I do NOT wish you well !

If Don Aronow were alive & owned Donzi today you would NOT get away with this sort of activity for very long.
You can just BET on that !

[thriller]

Well said SilverGhost..I saw the Yellow Splash in Miami and was quite taken back..Call it anything you want ..it doesn't sit well with me and I would like to see them gone/banned from this site..

Good Riddins

[silverghost]

In today's very tough economic conditions many boat builders are going under out there, or are in a tough financial condition.
Donzi, Fountain, Baja, Pro-line and many more found, or find themselves, in a very tight spot.
Many good workers lost their jobs and their family now suffers.
The last thing the boat building industry needs now are opportunists stealing their designs and undercutting them on price by ripping-off their designs.and selling "splash" clones.

If you owned Donzi, or just lost your job working for Donzi ~~~
Or owned a Donzi dealership and had unsold boats sitting in your showroom on the bank's floorplan money that you are paying interest on each month~
Just trying to hang-on and survive~.
How would you now feel about what "Hornet Marine" is now doing ?

I would NOT feel this way IF this boat was a totally NEW design and not a thinly disguised & altered "Splash" clone copy.

And David~
If your boat is NOT a "Splash" Donzi Classic Copy~

Why do you choose to advertise your boat on a Donzi website that is dedicated to real Donzi 16 & 18 Classics ? ? ?

You are NOT FOOLING ANYONE here on this great Donzi website !

I also bet DONZI & their parent holding company are NOT very happy !
Not to mention their workers, former laid-off workers, and former dealers.

[David Hartmann]

David~
You guys call yourself boatbuilders ~
You "splash" copy Donzi's old boat design~
We built our own molds

Make a few small changes; just enough so you don't get sued by Donzi~
The changes we made are driven by function and have nothing to do with legal issues

Use Donzi's old Hornet name as YOUR company's name ~
As an owner of a St. Tropez, We are very fond of the Donzi Hornet hull, The name hornet is used on a number of other products including boat brands and models. We think the name is a good choice for the company we are building.

Create a logo similar to the old original Donzi logo.
We like the old school script Logo. It reminds people of old muscle cars. We took the idea a little further on our manufacturing facility. It is painted right on our brick walls, white on black, like old factories. We think this has a certain amount of class and respect for industrial america

You want someone else to actually lay-up the "splash" stolen desgn copy hulls, decks, and all fiberglass parts?
In other words you want someone else to do all the hard & dirty work
This is for manufacturing expertise. In order to have the talent and equipment to build first class fiberglass products a factory needs to have the volume to afford the associated costs. We do not make steering systems or engines either. This is also why Donzi, Baja, Fountain and Proline consolidated their manufacturing programs.

While you guys just rig the "Splash" clone rip-off copy boats and make all the big profits ?
There is a lot more to it than just rigging the boat. There is a lot of design work and component testing that goes in to the quality and performance of the boat. The other big expense is building a company that is focused on the total customer experience. Our goal is to be the company that We all think a boat company should be.
As far as making big profits, that is just not the case. What drives us is a passion for building a great boat and a better boat company.

Don't you guys have any original ideas & designs of your own ?
Lower the floor for a lower center of gravity and better comfort, Monitor forums of boating enthusiasts and listen and respond to feedback, Allow the customer to choose every component on the boat, Build to HIN manufacturing process, Localized owners manuals, Customer reimbursement of safe boating course fees and of boating organization dues, Dealer annuity program to build dealer loyalty; these are just a few off the top of my head. We believe our business model is what sets us apart from other boat companies.

A dozen others have tried to "splash" steal Donzi's design over the years.
Cobalt was the first to try this.
They were sued by Donzi very quickly~
They were soon forced to stop building these rip-off design copy boats.
That would not be the reason cobalt stopped building the boats. Four Winns also made an attempt at this. In all those cases they thought they just needed to make the boat and sell it. We are building an entire business model of supporting customers and continuous testing and improvement to the performance of the boat.

If Don Aronow were alive & owned Donzi today you would NOT get away with this sort of activity for very long.
You can just BET on that ! There is no doubt about this, at least in the early years. I am sure he had some associates that would have taken care of us. (I am just making a joke Arronow had tremendous business skills and I don't think he would have batted and eye as long as we were not doing anything illegal). I suspect Formula, Donzi, and Magnum were all making essentially the same 23' and 28' boats at one time and Don managed to make Cigarette very successful by focusing on business and what customers wanted.

[David Hartmann]

In today's very tough economic conditions many boat builders are going under out there, or are in a tough financial condition.
Donzi, Fountain, Baja, Pro-line and many more found, or find themselves, in a very tight spot.
Many good workers lost their jobs and their family now suffers.
The last thing the boat building industry needs now are opportunists stealing their designs and undercutting them on price by ripping-off their designs.and selling "splash" clones.
If you owned Donzi, or just lost your job working for Donzi ~~~
Or owned a Donzi dealership and had unsold boats sitting in your showroom on the bank's floorplan money that you are paying interest on each month~
Just trying to hang-on and survive~.
How would you now feel about what "Hornet Marine" is now doing ?
As far as the economy goes this is a very difficult time for all business and actually starting our business is dumping hundreds of thousands of dollars into the economy. There are not dealers out there sitting on 2010 or 2011 16 Donzi's. Our boats are targeted at a different audience than most and sold in a different way. Dealers are happy with any sale they can get because it employs operational, service and sales staff. Classic Donzi's had virtually disappeared before we started making any boats. Since starting this company we have created 9 direct jobs plus several indirect jobs at supporting companies. Growth in the marine industry is good for all boat builders and the economy as a whole.

And David~
If your boat is NOT a "Splash" Donzi Classic Copy~
Why do you choose to advertise your boat on a Donzi website that is dedicated to real Donzi 16 & 18 Classics ? ? ?
You are NOT FOOLING ANYONE here on this great Donzi website !
We do find that many forum readers are interested in what we do. We don't really think that people that are passionate about restoring classic old boats are our target market for our boats but we do have tremendous respect for everyone's knowledge and experience. We post here to get feedback from people like yourself. It helps us be a better company. We also post demo ride events and factory open house dates because we like to invite boating enthusiasts to drive fun boats and tour boat building facilities. We have made a mistake a couple times and posted in the wrong area but we try to make sure that our content is relevant to the forum thread that we are posting on.

I also bet DONZI & their parent holding company are NOT very happy !
Not to mention their workers, former laid-off workers, and former dealers.
Our motivation is a passion for building a boat company worthy of a great brand. We are not cutting as much staff as possible to try and make a dollar. We are investing in building great business processes that will yield a great customer experience. I think marine workers in Sarasota Florida and Washington NC are having a tough time. In fact we are using some of Donzis former suppliers in the sarasota area. We are spending more money in the area not less. A lot of talented people are losing their jobs in those areas and all over the marine industry. We are working extremely hard to grow and be able to increase demand for employees through out the industry.

[jl1962]

David-

Thanks for your reasoned and well thought out responses. Also thanks for keeping the discussion civil and above board. As the proud owner of a classic Donzi, I am not the least bit threatened or offended by your product. I see it paying tribute to what has come before while making improvements here and there. Further, I see Hornet filling a niche that Donzi seems to have stepped away from. For someone wanting an older, real deal Holyfield classic Donzi, there is really no substitute. But for someone looking for a more modern, smaller performance boat at an affordable price, I'd say you offer a real alternative.

Good luck.

-Jay

[silverghost]

David~
Anyone with eyes & half a brain can see what "Hornet Marne" is all about~~~

You can try to Spin your story any way you wish~

BUT~
I call it like I see it ~
I stand 100% behnd my above opinions & observations~

And as far a making "Your Own Molds" ~
Anyone that wants to make a"Splash" clone rip-off copy of any boat must make their own molds~~~
I guess you could not find a way steal the molds directly from Donzi too ?

You must think that people are just plain stupid to not see through your motivations .

At least I had the guts to finally call you out on it !

[silverghost]

Well said SilverGhost..I saw the Yellow Splash in Miami and was quite taken back..Call it anything you want ..it doesn't sit well with me and I would like to see them gone/banned from this site..

Good Riddins

Thriller~ Thank's for having the guts to back me up !
I appreciate it .

[silverghost]

I, agree 100% with the last post , buy Silverghost !

Ginger~
I know you have been in this boat building & repair industry for a long long time ~
It's about time we all stand together against these "splash" rip-off copy artists.
The boat building industry is hurting badly.
People have lost thieir jobs~
There is always some opportunist that tries to come-in and take advantage when times are toughest.
In my opinion that is just what is happening here in this case.
Thanks !

[fogducker III]

David-

Thanks for your reasoned and well thought out responses. Also thanks for keeping the discussion civil and above board. As the proud owner of a classic Donzi, I am not the least bit threatened or offended by your product. I see it paying tribute to what has come before while making improvements here and there. Further, I see Hornet filling a niche that Donzi seems to have stepped away from. For someone wanting an older, real deal Holyfield classic Donzi, there is really no substitute. But for someone looking for a more modern, smaller performance boat at an affordable price, I'd say you offer a real alternative.

Good luck.

-Jay

+1 ......I see no problem with your product, your method of promotion needs fine tuning and I think the "script" went a little far, IMHO

[silverghost]

David~
If this hull is YOUR original design and not a "Splash" clone copy of a Donzi as you claim~

Show us all a photo of the wooden plug YOU built yourself in house that was used to make your hull mold .
You were asked to do this on Offshoreonly.com and NEVER showed any photos of your wooden hull plug.
Do, or did, you ever have one ?

Prove it is YOUR OWN hull design~
Show us your wooden hull plug !

[Sweet Cheekz]

Ginger~
.
The boat building industry is hurting badly.
People have lost thieir jobs~
There is always some opportunist that tries to come-in and take advantage when times are toughest.
!

Just curious. How is the start of another boat company contributing to the "loss" of jobs in the boat industry?

Parnell

[Just Say N20]

I'm with Jay on this one. I thought his answer was thoughtful, well reasoned, and very classy. There was not a hint of personal attack, even though he was attacked.

His answers to the individual points were specific, and I didn't sense he was trying to spin his answers at all. And they had the ring of truth to them.

I also think if he were the type of person Brad seems to think he is, I doubt he would have taken the time to respond to. And if he was this type, and he did respond, I would have expected it to have been a personal attack and foul.

I believe Jay's point about DONZIs is accurate too. If someone has the DONZI bug, they are going to get a DONZI, not an alternative boat. "Let's see, I can buy a used DONZI like I've always wanted for $X, or I can spend $2+X and buy this other boat."

Hartmann has basically put himself into a predictably hostile environment. To lure people who are die hard DONZI enthusiasts away? Not likely. It is more reasonable to assume he actually is looking for information from us to potentially improve his product, which it appears he has done. Lower cockpit so you sit more in the boat, rather than on it. Great! Boarding ladder that has a small external foot print and stores easily? How many times has this particular topic been discussed?

I say more power to him.

[axelkloehn]

hmm, it took me 2 hrs to model a 16 in 3D based on fotos and technical drawings- almost a week I am thinking and sketching and trying to improve a 16 and I haven't found a convincing proposal.
Understand? Easy just to copy but to improve and find an own way to success... much more difficult!!
David, no offense, but next step for you should be a nice evolution with your own design language and approach, especially interior and deck design which have no influence on driving quality and there is no need to copy this 1:1 from a Donzi, try to find your own road to success in my opinion, there is room for improvement- improve engine room space with a higher hatch, a fairing, interior layout with center steering, move cockpit further back and, and, and...

[silverghost]

Search here for thread~
"16 Donzi in South Florida?"

php?T=60926
A thread that David Hartmann / Hornet Marine posted here on
01-05-2010 & 01-10-2010 under~ Whatever You Want to Talk About

This thread is now closed & locked ~
Why did you lock this thread David ?

Search for the thread that David started on 01-05-2010 & 01-10-2010
under David's profile listing /threads started by David Hartmann.

Here David/Hornet Marine wanted to borrow a REAl 16 Donzi in Florida to display in Hornet Marine's Miami Boat Show booth with a cover on it's deck.

WHY ?

What do YOU think they were trying to do here ?

No doubt in my mind Hornet Marine was trying to pass-off a real Donzi 16 hull as a Hornet Marine built boat hull in their Hornet Marine booth.

I called them out on this little trick then in 2010!

David~
Show us the wooden hull Plug that Hornet Marine used to make YOUR own NEW hull mold design~~~

If you really EVER had one ?

Lots of Shell Games going on here~I suspect ?

[David Hartmann]

hmm, it took me 2 hrs to model a 16 in 3D based on fotos and technical drawings- almost a week I am thinking and sketching and trying to improve a 16 and I haven't found a convincing proposal.
Understand? Easy just to copy but to improve and find an own way to success... much more difficult!!
David, no offense, but next step for you should be a nice evolution with your own design language and approach, especially interior and deck design which have no influence on driving quality and there is no need to copy this 1:1 from a Donzi, try to find your own road to success in my opinion, there is room for improvement- improve engine room space with a higher hatch, a fairing, interior layout with center steering, move cockpit further back and, and, and...
Do you use solid works? Would you be interested in doing some contract work?

There will be more evolution to come. We are hard at work now, modeling a couple topside changes. We are hoping to make improvements while keeping the classic look. We are intrigued with the suggestions you mention and certainly interested in any other ideas. This really is one of the reasons we are on this forum.

Thank you for the feedback

[David Hartmann]

Search here for thread~
"16 Donzi in South Florida?"
php?T=60926
A thread that David Hartmann / Hornet Marine posted here on
01-05-2010 & 01-10-2010 under~ Whatever You Want to Talk About
This thread is now closed & locked ~
Why did you lock this thread David ?
I am not sure why that thread would be closed and locked except that it would no longer be relevant. We are not hiding anything here. We were not sure if we would have had our own boat finished for the Miami show. We were working crazy hours trying to get everything finished. Our back up plan was to use a 16 Donzi with a cover over it so people could have an IDEA of what we were making.
Take a look at the sharkey images site.
http://sharkeyimages.zenfolio.com/hornetmarine
There is one photo there showing how we displayed the boat. We were able to finish our hull but not the topside. We kept a black cover on it at all times. Which would have been what we would have done if we had to use a Donzi. The hull is different but most people get the idea of the size and style of boat
If you look at the picture you will also see that we were mostly promoting who we are and why we have a passion for this type of boat.


~
Show us the wooden hull Plug that Hornet Marine used to make YOUR own NEW hull mold design~~~
If you really EVER had one ?
Lots of Shell Games going on here~I suspect ?
We have a complet solid works model of the boat and had the plug outsourced. we do have pictures. the plug looks like MDF covered with Awl-grip so I doubt that will satisfy your point.
We do want to do business in the open and understand that not everyone is going to support or agree with us. We respect your opinions and appreciate the opportunity to clarify some of the points you raise.

[Greg Guimond]

David,
In one of your previous posts you said that the hull weighs in at 680lbs, or more specifically, "the fiberglass pieces" weigh in at 680lbs. I'd like to know what a "finished" hull weighs, fully finished, and awaiting engine, rigging and interior to be installed. I'm having a hard time with 680lbs, unless some very modern techniques have been used, which would be very cool. Have you put the finished hull on a scale and can you give us an accurate weight? I have an excellent electronic scale I use. Depending on the true weight I might see a wacker on the backer.... :eek: How is that for broadening up your product line? It would all depend on the true weight of the hull though :yes: You can't be heavy and fast. Please let us know the weight.

[BUIZILLA]

David.... why not start your own website, and info sharing forum, instead of muddying up a competitors board here, where admittedly, the heritage for your clone started. Seems counter productive, and antagonistic, to me. No true Donzi owners have bought your boats, none seem interested in a purchase at all, and there are some bad feelings along the way with the plagerisms. I can't see any good becoming of you constantly defending and pushing your clone product here. Your NOT going to sell any boats here. It's constantly being put in our face, kinda like poking someone in the chest...

IOW, go swim in your own pond.

[silverghost]

I just wanted to try and pull traffic from the event section into the more appropriate thread.

Any feedback good our bad about Hornet Marine should be posted here.

Thanks for all the feedback and support.

David


To me the entire issue here is about ~
Telling the Truth
& Truth in Advertising

Telling the TRUTH about what you are building and not trying to take credit for a jim Winn/Walt Walters 40+ year old & Donzi owned iconic design.
And trying to profit on somone else's old well-known iconic design.

If you are building a "splash" clone~

Man-up ~~~and say so ! .

And state why you are doing so ; and how you think you can improve on their old time-tested design.
Don't keep trying to B.S. the Donzi folks on the Donzi website forums here & all over the web performance boating forums claiming to be somethng you are not.
You are not this hull's & deck's designer .
All your many Design claims are an insult to all real Donzi owners here.

I believe in telling the TRUTH.
Only The Truth

Not trying to give the boating public a "Snow Job" with claims you refuse to , or cannot back up.

I do not like "splash" clones~
I, and others have made our feelings very well known~

Others here do not seem to mind what you are doing~
OK
That's fine~

But I would have much more respect for what you are trying to do at Hornet Marine if you would only come-clean and state what you are actually building.

It's a Donzi 16 "Splash" Clone with a few updates.
The old 10% material change "splash"law applies here.
I am sure you are well aware of that~
You seemed to have just walked up to the edge of that legal line~
In may respects .

As I, and others here , have already stated~
You are NOT fooling anyone here with your
"It's our own new design" claims.

In short~
Tell the Truth ~
And let the market decide if they wish to buy your "splash" clone boat or a Real Authentic Donzi.

[VetteLT193]

The people that own Donzi right now own it for one reason... to make money. They are the ones taking advantage of a down market and attempting to profit off of it. They aren't Donzi lovers, they are number crunchers who recognize a good brand name they can profit off of.

They way some of you guys talk around here the Donzi girls swing by your house weekly just to give you quickie because you own a Donzi. The reality is Donzi does jack **** for us. I haven't seen them sponsor a rally much less put one on. They show up at some poker runs, etc... but guess when? Big money is around, good PR is around, or they have some other marketing angle to sell another high dollar item. This group of people... Us... are peons to Donzi. They only offer us severely overpriced items through Donzidirect.

The classics are dumped from Donzi's web site because we aren't the ideal customer. There isn't enough profit in the average guy.

The WORST part about all of this is: Us... yes Us... are the ones that keep the brand valuable. This is the group that keeps old boats looking new or better than new. This is the group that helps when things go wrong. This is the group that organizes runs and creates an awesome culture. This is the group of guys taking their boats out on the weekends for all to see... and create more Donzi lovers for the new owners to profit off of.

I for one like what Hornet is doing because they are creating an affordable new 'classic' that actually gives a crap about the customer. This is what made Donzi great to begin with.

[Nmbr1GMfan]

The people that own Donzi right now own it for one reason... to make money. They are the ones taking advantage of a down market and attempting to profit off of it. They aren't Donzi lovers, they are number crunchers who recognize a good brand name they can profit off of.

They way some of you guys talk around here the Donzi girls swing by your house weekly just to give you quickie because you own a Donzi. The reality is Donzi does jack **** for us. I haven't seen them sponsor a rally much less put one on. They show up at some poker runs, etc... but guess when? Big money is around, good PR is around, or they have some other marketing angle to sell another high dollar item. This group of people... Us... are peons to Donzi. They only offer us severely overpriced items through Donzidirect.

The classics are dumped from Donzi's web site because we aren't the ideal customer. There isn't enough profit in the average guy.

The WORST part about all of this is: Us... yes Us... are the ones that keep the brand valuable. This is the group that keeps old boats looking new or better than new. This is the group that helps when things go wrong. This is the group that organizes runs and creates an awesome culture. This is the group of guys taking their boats out on the weekends for all to see... and create more Donzi lovers for the new owners to profit off of.

I for one like what Hornet is doing because they are creating an affordable new 'classic' that actually gives a crap about the customer. This is what made Donzi great to begin with.
Very good point.

[gcarter]

I'm surprized at some of you.
Deep V hulls are NOT patented! You can build exact copies of any deep V hull made by anyone because, as far as I know, there's no intelectual property involved.
Period!
Donzi didn't invent the hull form, the shape, or the deck.
Ray Hunt did in the mid to late '50's. Hunt attempted to patent it, but waited too long to do so. Brownie has verified this fact. Donzi copied Hunt. Did you get that Brad?
As far as I know, anybody can build Donzis, Magnums, or what ever, Just don't call them by that name.
I don't get your argument Brad. Maybe you just don't understand how this industry works, but I think your argument is baseless.
Donzi isn't offering boats in this market niche anymore except on an order by order basis, so what does a person do that wants one for less than $70-$90K?
David is posting in the "Other Boats" section.
I applaud him and his partners for starting a new boat company in these times.
I think some here need to get over their emotions because I think they're misplaced.

[mrfixxall]

The people that own Donzi right now own it for one reason... to make money. They are the ones taking advantage of a down market and attempting to profit off of it. They aren't Donzi lovers, they are number crunchers who recognize a good brand name they can profit off of.

They way some of you guys talk around here the Donzi girls swing by your house weekly just to give you quickie because you own a Donzi. The reality is Donzi does jack **** for us. I haven't seen them sponsor a rally much less put one on. They show up at some poker runs, etc... but guess when? Big money is around, good PR is around, or they have some other marketing angle to sell another high dollar item. This group of people... Us... are peons to Donzi. They only offer us severely overpriced items through Donzidirect.

The classics are dumped from Donzi's web site because we aren't the ideal customer. There isn't enough profit in the average guy.

The WORST part about all of this is: Us... yes Us... are the ones that keep the brand valuable. This is the group that keeps old boats looking new or better than new. This is the group that helps when things go wrong. This is the group that organizes runs and creates an awesome culture. This is the group of guys taking their boats out on the weekends for all to see... and create more Donzi lovers for the new owners to profit off of.

I for one like what Hornet is doing because they are creating an affordable new 'classic' that actually gives a crap about the customer. This is what made Donzi great to begin with.



Word!! i agree with you 100%...if if it werent for us they would have the same value as a bayliner.. Also after seeing so many post's with the hull stress cracking i gotta say that the quality of building the newer donzi's are chit! i have talked to a few that state the same,under built and over priced..

just my o2..

[mrfixxall]

I'm surprized at some of you.
Deep V hulls are NOT patented! You can build exact copies of any deep V hull made by anyone because, as far as I know, there's no intelectual property involved.
Period!
Donzi didn't invent the hull form, the shape, or the deck.
Ray Hunt did in the mid to late '50's. Hunt attempted to patent it, but waited too long to do so. Brownie has verified this fact. Donzi copied Hunt. Did you get that Brad?
As far as I know, anybody can build Donzis, Magnums, or what ever, Just don't call them by that name.
I don't get your argument Brad. Maybe you just don't understand how this industry works, but I think your argument is baseless.
Donzi isn't offering boats in this market niche anymore except on an order by order basis, so what does a person do that wants one for less than $70-$90K?
David is posting in the "Other Boats" section.
I applaud him and his partners for starting a new boat company in these times.
I think some here need to get over their emotions because I think they're misplaced.

George, i believe in order to build a look alike boat it has to be changed 10% for it to be a good to sell boat..

[Carl C]

I'm in the Silverghost, Buizilla, Thriller camp. Here is a link to the thread that Silverghost referenced. It is kind of incriminating. Competitors shouldn't be pushing their offerings on a Donzi specific forum. I felt the same way about the Sutphen threads. http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=60926&highlight=16+donzi+south+florida

[Sweet Cheekz]

Good points George
I do agree with Jim that these posts get them nowhere as far as selling any new boats to the people on this board but you have to admit there is invaluable experience and opinions on here about classic Donzis. If I was building a new boat this similar to the old one this would be a very large weath of info on how to improve the original.
Having said that we all have the power to avoid buying one and I would think eventually they will get enough experience with their own product to loose interest in the beating they take here.

SG Why begrudge them the chance to imploy people and build something that might apeal to someone even if its none of us? Clearly everyone here can see the similarities no matter what is stated here or anywhere else but in the end who really cares. If they are successfull and sell a few boats and keep some people imployed whats the difference from any other boat company out there? This industry is legendary for stealing others ideas So be it. It will never be a Donzi Give it a rest Let them go on their way and we will keep enjoying our boats

Just my .02

Parnell

[Carl C]

Well let's not let it divide this board even though there are two ways of viewing this. Parnell, looking forward to running with your 21 again sometime.

[rustnrot]

And thanks George for keeping this in perspective! Makes me wanna buy a Hornet Marine boat just to slap a DONZI sticker on the side to piss off the peanut gallery even more!!!

[Sweet Cheekz]

Rust Funny idea but we would all know Sorry wont work

Carl ditto I was hopeing for Jobbie Nooner but not at 65 and pouring rain.

Parnell

[gcarter]

George, i believe in order to build a look alike boat it has to be changed 10% for it to be a good to sell boat..

Mike, you may be correct, but that's so easy to do. It's so easy to do that from a plug state, the boats could look identical, but no two dimensions be the same.
What then?
The full intent and spirit of any existing law would be satisfied and some would still be dissatisfied.
Let's get past this!

[boxy]

And thanks George for keeping this in perspective! Makes me wanna buy a Hornet Marine boat just to slap a DONZI sticker on the side to piss off the peanut gallery even more!!!
You don't need to slap a Donzi sticker on it to be accepted. There has been a Hornet docked at the largest "Classic" only rally in North America for the last 2 years, and it doesn't seem to be a problem there.

[rustnrot]

10% difference...there are those that say we share 99% of our DNA with chimps...just sayin'

[Greg Guimond]

Wow, a spirited exchange! I'm still waiting to hear if the unrigged Hornet hull weighs 680lbs ready to rig.

[mrfixxall]

Wow, a spirited exchange! I'm still waiting to hear if the unrigged Hornet hull weighs 680lbs ready to rig.


Greg,i think he ment just the hull with out the top weighs 680 lbs..:cool:

[Greg Guimond]

Hard to say. I asked 4 or 5 times and thought it was a simple question, but it has been hard to get the answer for some reason. Maybe David will see this and provide an answer.

[David Hartmann]

Hard to say. I asked 4 or 5 times and thought it was a simple question, but it has been hard to get the answer for some reason. Maybe David will see this and provide an answer.
Sometimes I am running a little slow.

The Hull and deck assembly is approximately 680-700 pounds without liner and bins those would add about 120-140 pounds depending on which configuration. We have changed the design of the storage bins slightly which may affect the weight a bit.

Drive system is about 850 pounds
Final weight around 2455 pounds with 25 gal of fuel

These are approximate numbers. There are many variables that determine the weight of drive system and rigging

If you need more information or more exact numbers let us know

[Buddyc]

I just went on the Hornet website and thier logo looks strangly firmiliar...WTF
http://www.hornetmarine.com/images/topbar_home.png

[INNERRAGE70]

i been to hornet several times and they brought me in the back and had nothing to hide ,i think they are great little performance boats and affordable tell me what boat company lets you walk in back and show you ever thing and meet the owner of the company ever time , good luck with everything dave

[David Hartmann]

David,
In one of your previous posts you said that the hull weighs in at 680lbs, or more specifically, "the fiberglass pieces" weigh in at 680lbs. I'd like to know what a "finished" hull weighs, fully finished, and awaiting engine, rigging and interior to be installed. I'm having a hard time with 680lbs, unless some very modern techniques have been used, which would be very cool. Have you put the finished hull on a scale and can you give us an accurate weight? I have an excellent electronic scale I use. Depending on the true weight I might see a wacker on the backer.... :eek: How is that for broadening up your product line? It would all depend on the true weight of the hull though :yes: You can't be heavy and fast. Please let us know the weight.
I see that you are looking for more accurate information. We have a new bulkhead, deck/bin, and liner configuration that will change things a bit. We are pulling a boat with this setup next week and will be able to give you a new accurate weight.

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

George, i believe in order to build a look alike boat it has to be changed 10% for it to be a good to sell boat.. hey guys, i think that rule has changed and in fact........... no longer exists .

[Greg Guimond]

That would be great David. Again, I am only interested in the full painted hull with gas tank. No motor, no drive, no upholstery etc. Just a virgin hull ..........:) It will be interesting to see how close to 850lbs the boat is.

[David Hartmann]

David, how much does your hull weigh unrigged?
I will have to get back to you next week.

If you don't hear from me shoot me an email.

[Greg Guimond]

Looking forward to hearing your "hull only" weight David. Your adding girth already though having gone from 680lbs to 850lbs with your hull.

[Buddyc]

All and all. Got to tell ya the 17 looks sweet. Love the interior. Best of luck

[Nmbr1GMfan]

I think I read PPI does the interiors for Hornet and they look great as all PPI stuff does. I just really like the 2+3 seating and the windshield.

[silverghost]

And thanks George for keeping this in perspective! Makes me wanna buy a Hornet Marine boat just to slap a DONZI sticker on the side to piss off the peanut gallery even more!!!

Donzi sticker on a fake"splash" clone ?
Don't think that's not going to happen some day in the future ?
It has happened many times before.
How many times do you see some brand-new poster come to this wbsite all excited that he finally bought the Donzi he has always wanted ; after buying a new boat only to find that some prior owner had placed Donzi decals on a fake "Splash" clone copy and then passed it off as a REAL Donzi.
It happens all time.
Forum members here are then forced to break the bad news to the new boat owner that he really does not own a Donzi after all.
It is really a fake "Splash" clone.
I feel sorry for these new innocent "Donzi" clone boat buyers.
This sort of thing happens on a regular basis every six months or so.
It's just like paying full price for a fake Rolex.
Very sad .

[silverghost]

I just went on the Hornet website and thier logo looks strangly firmiliar...WTF
http://www.hornetmarine.com/images/topbar_home.png

Buddy~
This was also one of my main points.
As was them using one of DONZI'S old & trusted model names.
HORNET

Does anyone really think that this happened just by accident ?

[silverghost]

I'm in the Silverghost, Buizilla, Thriller camp. Here is a link to the thread that Silverghost referenced. It is kind of incriminating. Competitors shouldn't be pushing their offerings on a Donzi specific forum. I felt the same way about the Sutphen threads. http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=60926&highlight=16+donzi+south+florida

It would have been much more than incriminating.

If they had actually displayed a REAL Donzi hull in their Hornet Marine Miami Boat Show Booth as they had originally intended,

It would have been outright FRAUD.

This is just a small part of a bigger deceptive pattern that Hornet Marine has long established here.

If they had been totally up-front from day one about what they were actually building here~
There woud be no ethical problems at all here.

Lack of ~~~
TRUTH in ADVERTISING !

Just because other boat builders have ripped-off & "Splashed" clones of other boat designs in the past~

Does that make it right to do so and then CLAIM it's THEIR OWN ORIGINAL DESIGN ?

[gcarter]

Come on Brad, I think you need to chill.......
Think about how many companies build Cobras, or C and D Jaguars.
No one thinks they're buying a real Cobra, or a Jaguar for that matter.
Shelby did take some of the mfgr's to court decades ago, not for building the cars, but for name infringement, I think. I'm not sure of the outcome, but the cars are still being built.
In Donzi's history, I think a much bigger outrage was the practice of OMC of plastering Donzi decals on all sorts of pedestrian boats, from small underpowered bowriders to large, slow, cruisers.
Think about all the Regazza owners who ask questions here thinking they have bought something of extraordinary value for a bargain. I would say there's a lot more of these than the instances you're referring to.
Donzi will NEVER build a Hornet again. I think Hornet marine is providing a service that there's a market for. If there isn't a market for them, they'll simply be another footnote.
I hope they make it and are successful.

[gcarter]

As far as the closed thread goes, I might have done the same thing, under the same time restraints.
David said they wanted to show a hull bottom of similar size and shape for a show. Go back and read it again, the words are there, "similar size" and "similar shape".
I just don't comprehend your outrage.

[Greg Guimond]

I think Brad's issue George is more "the presentation" of the facts so to speak.

[silverghost]

I think Brad's issue George is more "the presentation" of the facts so to speak.

BINGO !
Greg wins an XL large Pizza !
That's my entire point.

Whatever your building & selling tell the TRUTH about it ...

TRUTH IN MARKETING

[Kirbyvv]

I think the continued ranting on posts like these is why a number of people have left this site. We all have opinions. State your opinion and move on. This is posted in the "other boats" forum and David has never claimed the Hornet 17 is not based on a Donzi.

One thing to think about, is that Donzi no longer has the classics in their regular production line, only by special order. So Hornet may be filling a gap now left by Donzi, with a reasonably priced product. I wish David the best of luck.

[Greg Guimond]

X2 on that........

[Buddyc]

Ditto here.. What you have done so far just by looking at the pictures, there great. Best of luck!

[zelatore]

I'll generally agree with George - I see no problem with Hornet Marine. Yes, they are clearly using the 16 as a starting point, but with Donzi not playing in that field why shouldn't they? And David's never made any attempt to claim the 16 wasn't his starting point.

As pointed out, this forum won't likely buy many/any of his boats, but it's a great resource for learning what works and doesn't work in this style boat. And a few of us might learn something in exchange such as a new part provider or style option we hadn't considered.

When a new guy with a clone comes to the board we gladly accept him and provide whatever support we can. Why wouldn't we accept a builder as well?

If David were obnoxious; trying to pull one over on people or talking down the original boats while proclaiming his product ever so much better I would vote him off the island too. But he's been very professional and I'm happy to have him here.

[mrfixxall]

BINGO !
Greg wins an XL large Pizza !
That's my entire point.

Whatever your building & selling tell the TRUTH about it ...

TRUTH IN MARKETING


jeeezzzzzz,,what next, you going to start bashing lenny for splashing the x18's?????????????

[axelkloehn]

Do you use solid works? Would you be interested in doing some contract work?

There will be more evolution to come. We are hard at work now, modeling a couple topside changes. We are hoping to make improvements while keeping the classic look. We are intrigued with the suggestions you mention and certainly interested in any other ideas. This really is one of the reasons we are on this forum.

Thank you for the feedback

David,
I work with an Autodesk product called AliasDesign, it delivers formats which can be used in almost every other CAD-tool. Thank you for offering contract work, I am scattered. The guys here on board know that I am always trying to be helpful with designworks, so lets put it this way: whenever you have a question or need advice, a sketch, 3D-visuals or other things I can try to help you if my time allows. You are very much welcome.

Best regards, Axel

[Carl C]

I just went on the Hornet website and thier logo looks strangly firmiliar...WTF
http://www.hornetmarine.com/images/topbar_home.png

https://www.donzidirect.com/decals-logos/chromed-donzi-script-logos-1-pair.html

David, you've got to be kidding....

[QUOTE=David Hartmann;605537 We are hoping to make improvements while keeping the classic look.[/QUOTE]

[mrfixxall]

https://www.donzidirect.com/decals-logos/chromed-donzi-script-logos-1-pair.html

David, you've got to be kidding....


I don't see a R on it, so i guess anyone could use it but with out donzi on it.

[Greg Guimond]

Now I'm really confused. I'm not sure if folks at mad at Hartman because

a. He splashed a hull
b. He was a little less transparent with the presentation of facts
c. He's trying to start a boat company

I don't care about any of the three personally but at least figure out what the real bashing is about. If I were doing the marketing I would have positioned the offering differently, and I surely would have offered some more innovations in the build, but he's getting a reaming more like Donzi Dude or Racer get :yes: Maybe I missed a chapter, that is what you get when you breath too much blue smoke and focus too much on hinges and windscreens I suspect.

[gcarter]

I don't see where he splashed a hull.
Guys, that's not how you build a plug and mold these days.
This stuff is so advanced from even 20 years ago.....
Some of you ought to take the time to subscribe to the online version of "Professional Boat Builder". It's free and it would really open some eyes as to how it's really done.
There are companies that do nothing but generate molds. A builder gives the mold company the necessary data in digital form to define the hull and a mold is delivered some time later.
It's so easy w/the talents of Axel and others to define/design a hull form.
Why would a person bother w/a 16 hull???????????
It doesn't make a bit of sense.
If folks here would look around and notice there's not any performance boats in this size range, it makes perfect sense to produce one. There's absolutely nothing proprietary about what Hornet M arine is doing, including the Logo.
I'm personally glad they're here sharing the the day to day frustrations of starting a boat company.
It takes a lot of serious effort, stamina, and very deep pockets to do so.
My hat's off to them.

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

George , first off that is called C N C , and second i have seen huge mistakes on plugs / molds when done this way ......when working at Skater , other then building a Plug / or a Mold ,the traditional way and Yes.......... Professional Boat Builder is the Mag for those working in design , construction, and repair .......which i also get . Hey guys , give it a rest and leave the man alone because in todays market , he ...................will truely need all the help he can get just to survive in this failing industry .

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

SilverGhost , not to be rude put this whole thing has taken you for a loop or should i say a.........tangit.................................. ....:nilly::nilly::nilly:

[Greg Guimond]

In general, anything that brings manufacturing jobs back to the US is a good thing IMO. I don't know if Hornet did, or did not splash a 16 hull but who really cares? I'm more interested in potential innovation. It seems like a pretty vanilla build, splashed, or not. I had an interesting chat with Sutphen about there 21. Tried to explain to there "salesguy" how he might encourage Richie to build to a wider demographic to help with sales. Most of his response was, "we can't, we shouldn't, we won't". I was amazed to say the least.

David, did you guys design your own hull from scratch on your 17 ?

[Carl C]

I'm personally glad they're here sharing the the day to day frustrations of starting a boat company.
It takes a lot of serious effort, stamina, and very deep pockets to do so.
My hat's off to them.

Yeah, I'm real glad to see them here pushing their blatant rip-off of a Donzi model that Donzi will still build albeit at a premium price. JMO

[Greg Guimond]

Wow, this is a Carl and George thing at this point.

That said, David please answer if you guys designed your own bottom from scratch? And please don't make me ask four or five times like I did for the weight of your hull :(

[HOTSHOT47]

Hey all,
i've been researching these guys a bit and found this thread. I registered solely to respond to this thread as it makes me chuckle.

Say what you will about "copying" and whatnot, but what would our world be like today if not for people taking an existing idea that was good, and making improvements on it? Did they make the first car and go " yep! good enough!". Or even the cell phone. If it wasn't for taking a good idea and improving it, we would all still be walking around with those brick phones. Or the first computer. If no one improved on the original idea, i wouldn't be making this post. So why is it okay in every other industry except boating? What "original" ideas are there where no one has tried to improve them? Not many i bet.

[BUIZILLA]

my Motorola brick phone always worked, got MUCH better reception, never dropped calls, didn't talk back to me, took all the abuse I could give it, but it was heavy....

kinda like my Criterion..... so research the word Criterion, and get back to us... :shades:

Noun
criterion (plural criteria (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/criteria#English) or criterions (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/criterions#English))

A standard (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/standard) or test (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/test) by which individual (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/individual) things (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/thing) or people (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/people) may be compared (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/compare) and judged (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/judge).

[gcarter]

my Motorola brick phone always worked, got MUCH better reception, never dropped calls, didn't talk back to me, took all the abuse I could give it, but it was heavy....

kinda like my Criterion..... so research the word Criterion, and get back to us... :shades:

Noun

criterion (plural criteria (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/criteria#English) or criterions (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/criterions#English))
A standard (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/standard) or test (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/test) by which individual (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/individual) things (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/thing) or people (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/people) may be compared (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/compare) and judged (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/judge).


Jim, thanks for posting. It gave me an idea.
Since there're so few CriteriA (plural, ya know) left and none have been built since the early '80's.......
Someone could start the "Criterion Marine Company"!:wink:
I suspect it'd have a short life as I assume it's a pretty small niche. Unless, of course, an existing company took it on as a division.
I'm sure you could think of a few improvements, like a little more room behind the wheel.
I'm juat kidding.
I wouldn't be the one to do it.

[Carl C]

George, this is definitely not between you and I. We can have differing opinions without things blowing up, right? I respect you and thank you for the restoration work advice and help that you gave me and regularly give here. You are an asset to this forum. I will try not to say anymore about Hornet Marine High Performance Power Boats....."try" I said. :)

[gcarter]

Yeah, I'm real glad to see them here pushing their blatant rip-off of a Donzi model that Donzi will still build albeit at a premium price. JMO

Carl, I haven't seen them push anything here.
I believe, I may be wrong, they haven't offered anything for sale on this board.
I may be mistaken, but, I think that if someone wanted to buy one of their products, that person would have to contact Hornet marine.

Another subject, as far as the script they are using, it's commonly used in many places.
Like here in this ad for the Russo and Steele collector car auction at Monterey in August;

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=65194&stc=1&d=1309004258

[Greg Guimond]

George, Carl, and now newest member HOTSHOT47..........I think the only real issue here is the manner in which David Hartman has answered certain questions.

David, did your company design your own hull from scratch or did you use an existing 16 Classic as the plug? If you give a straightforward truthful answer to this very simple question, then there will be nothing else to talk about. I personally don't care what the answer is, but I do think you owe folks a truthful response to the question. If you don't answer the question then you will be promptly :uzi:by the elders!

David?

[dammmagnum]

Come on Brad, I think you need to chill.......
Think about how many companies build Cobras, or C and D Jaguars.
No one thinks they're buying a real Cobra, or a Jaguar for that matter.
Shelby did take some of the mfgr's to court decades ago, not for building the cars, but for name infringement, I think. I'm not sure of the outcome, but the cars are still being built.
In Donzi's history, I think a much bigger outrage was the practice of OMC of plastering Donzi decals on all sorts of pedestrian boats, from small underpowered bowriders to large, slow, cruisers.
Think about all the Regazza owners who ask questions here thinking they have bought something of extraordinary value for a bargain. I would say there's a lot more of these than the instances you're referring to.
Donzi will NEVER build a Hornet again. I think Hornet marine is providing a service that there's a market for. If there isn't a market for them, they'll simply be another footnote.

I hope they make it and are successful.

George

I think many of the Cobra clones of today are better build and safer then what Ole Shelby built back in the 60s.
Part of the out come of many of the court cases that Shelby brought on the other companys was that the replica car companies had to stop calling them "Cobra" replicas, or pay Ole Shelby a fee to use the name.
The largest of them Factory Five Racing, had to change the name to Mk4 Roadster. Same Car just improved.
There are many other replica companies out there making look a like cars and as you stated and no one is making a big deal of it, people know there are copies and if it weren't for these copies, some people would never have the chance to owe a car that looks like a classic.

The Lotus Elise was and is sold under different names for different car companies,, pretty much the same car ,, different name.
it even became the Tesla, the electric car sports car..

Thank you
Jim

[dammmagnum]

George, Carl, and now newest member HOTSHOT47..........I think the only real issue here is the manner in which David Hartman has answered certain questions.

David, did your company design your own hull from scratch or did you use an existing 16 Classic as the plug? If you give a straightforward truthful answer to this very simple question, then there will be nothing else to talk about. I personally don't care what the answer is, but I do think you owe folks a truthful response to the question. If you don't answer the question then you will be promptly :uzi:by the elders!

David?

Greg,

Maybe David is busy and not on this site all the time. Maybe he is trying to run his business or has other things that he need to attend to?
I don't know. I know for me, I don't get on line here everyday.
you asked the question late yesterday by the time stamp.

As far of the designing hull molds,, How many molds were pull from the 27 Magnum hull and nothing was changed on the hull and called something else?

Thank you
Jim

[mike o]

Cases of puddy, gallons of dura tec, tons of paper. Your shop floor gotta have lots of evidence :yes:, of doing it the "right" way. Right Mr C........:kingme:

[Greg Guimond]

Thanks dammmagnum. I'm sure that David Hartman will be on the site over the course of the next week or so and will be happy to answer the question. Then everyone will have an answer and can stop beating on the poor fellow. He actually was going to give me an answer on the hull's total weight as well, so I suspect he will answer both questions at the same time.

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

Thanks dammmagnum. I'm sure that David Hartman will be on the site over the course of the next week or so and will be happy to answer the question. Then everyone will have an answer and can stop beating on the poor fellow. He actually was going to give me an answer on the hull's total weight as well, so I suspect he will answer both questions at the same time. Greg , read post #65 , and unless they are doing infusion ......every hull ..... can & will ......weigh the same .

[Greg Guimond]

I agree Ginger but David has never weighed the Hornet 17 hull so the true weight is still an unknown. I'd like to know the true weight of his hull only to see what the options are for OB power. Initially, David had mentioned the hull weighed 680lbs. Then he updated that weight to 840lbs. It sounds like they have not actually weighed a new unrigged hull with fuel tank only so that is why a true weight is what I am asking of him. I have a number in my head as to what I think the total weight will be, but it will be better to get it from the source. We'll see how close I was.

[axelkloehn]

https://www.donzidirect.com/decals-logos/chromed-donzi-script-logos-1-pair.html
David, you've got to be kidding....


Sorry for this but I just could not resist doing this.... :nilly:

................................

[Ed Donnelly]

TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO FUNNY......................Ed

[Carl C]

Sorry for this but I just could not resist doing this.... :nilly:
................................

I lost an "R" on my last pick-up truck and got teased for driving a "FOD"...

HydroStream is in cursive too but different: http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff250/Fieldzy15/Hydrostream%20Vandal/Hydrostream004.jpg

[Greg Guimond]

David and Hornet, looking forward to hearing back from you..........

[David Hartmann]

David and Hornet, looking forward to hearing back from you..........

We will be picking up a new hull from the fiberglass shop later this week. We will get you weight details as soon as we have them.

[mattyboy]

David

congrats on the trademark , the certification ,and all the work and effort for towing and showing these boats all over the place.

http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/home/514761-hornet-marine-gains-trademark-approval

[GBond]

Kick Butt...Best of Luck to you!

[Greg Guimond]

We will be picking up a new hull from the fiberglass shop later this week. We will get you weight details as soon as we have them.

Looking forward to it David

[David Hartmann]

Looking forward to it David
Weight of all fiberglass components ready for rigging 1040 Pounds
This does not have any components.
2260 pounds Fully rigged

[Greg Guimond]

Thanks David. Let me ask, is that 1040lbs a fully joined and gelled hull with gas tank?

[Greg Guimond]

The reason I am asking David is that you keep making reference to fiberglass "components". I'm not sure what that means but I want to know what the total weight of your hull is with

- gas tank installed
- deck and hull joined and rub rail installed
- all gel applied
- no hardware or interior in place whatsoever

Is that weight 1040lbs or is it higher based on what I describe above? Thanks David for your response.

[David Hartmann]

The reason I am asking David is that you keep making reference to fiberglass "components". I'm not sure what that means but I want to know what the total weight of your hull is with

- gas tank installed
- deck and hull joined and rub rail installed
- all gel applied
- no hardware or interior in place whatsoever

Is that weight 1040lbs or is it higher based on what I describe above? Thanks David for your response.

Gas tank is approximately 50 pounds additional
Foam would be 50 pounds additional
gel included
that was with no hardware installed
rub rail is maybe 10-15 pounds

[Greg Guimond]

Thanks David. Looks like 1100lbs is the final unrigged weight.

[GBond]

The reason I am asking David is that you keep making reference to fiberglass "components". I'm not sure what that means but I want to know what the total weight of your hull is with

- gas tank installed
- deck and hull joined and rub rail installed
- all gel applied
- no hardware or interior in place whatsoever

Is that weight 1040lbs or is it higher based on what I describe above? Thanks David for your response.

Greg, You've really shown alot of interest in the "Hornet Marine" build here.

Have you talked with them on the phone yet? :biggrin.:

[Greg Guimond]

Nothing to talk about until you get an accurate hull weight GBone :yes:

[David Hartmann]

Hornet Marine is hosting an open house party at our facility on Thursday, August 11th from 5 - 9 PM. We invite you all to come see our factory, meet our team and enjoy some food & drinks. We will also have our latest build on display, a custom seafoam-colored Hornet 17. Check out the link for more information: http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs066/1102928002345/archive/1106954744125.html

[David Hartmann]

Hornet Marine is hosting a few upcoming test drive events that I wanted to invite you all to. We invite anyone to come and take a test drive and always appreciate any feedback after someone experiences the boat out on the water for the first time.
We'll be in Lake Winnipesaukee at the Paugus Bay Marina Customer Appreciation Day this Saturday, 8/20 offering demo rides from 11 - 6. Besides seeing the Hornet 17 its a great event the marina puts on every year with lots of food and entertainment.
We'll also be hosting a happy hour and demo ride event at the Canoe Club in Middletown, CT next Thursday, 8/25. We again invite anyone to stop by and take a test drive out on the CT River.
All the invite info for our Canoe Club demo event can be found here:
http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs066/1102928002345/archive/1107154679651.html

[David Hartmann]

Hornet Marine is hosting a few upcoming test drive events that I wanted to invite you all to. We invite anyone to come and take a test drive and always appreciate any feedback after someone experiences the boat out on the water for the first time.
We'll be in Lake Winnipesaukee at the Paugus Bay Marina Customer Appreciation Day this Saturday, 8/20 offering demo rides from 11 - 6. Besides seeing the Hornet 17 its a great event the marina puts on every year with lots of food and entertainment.
We'll also be hosting a happy hour and demo ride event at the Canoe Club in Middletown, CT next Thursday, 8/25. We again invite anyone to stop by and take a test drive out on the CT River.
All the invite info for our Canoe Club demo event can be found here:
http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs066/1102928002345/archive/1107154679651.html


FYI our demo event originally scheduled for tomorrow has been postponed due to an unfavorable weather forecast. The event has been rescheduled for FRIDAY, August 26 from 4 - 7 PM. The weather should be great and we will have two demo boats available for test drives as well as a couple show boats on display. Hope to see you there.

[David Hartmann]

I wanted to share the latest Hornet 17 we've been working on at the shop. We're loving the sporty look of the orange with stainless steel hardare. The next boat we're building will have more of a classic feel, with a cabernet hull & cream colored deck.

68378683796838068381

[Greg Guimond]

Nice to see both you and Sutphen taking an order and then building a boat :yes:
Now, rig one of those little guys with a PortaBracket and an OB :wink:

[jl1962]

Very Nice!

Of course I'm partial to the solid hull/deck color theme.

Thanks for posting.

[Dax McDavid]

Wish the orange was a little more "burnt"....:wink:
Great looking boat!

[axelkloehn]

[ QUOTE=$originalposter]{$pagetext}[/QUOTE]

It looks great! Love the dash-layout and the upholstery. Nice job, guys!

[mattyboy]

here are 2 hangin in log bay


you guys should be close to 25 by now

[biggiefl]

My favorite post is the one about Donzi not giving a hoot about us "classic" owners unless it is a giant parade for them and a chance for big $$. This has been the same observation with Boston Whaler for us "classic" owners. We all feel that the new Whalers are overpriced and underbuilt compared to what we own. We also feel that Brunswick has done a great injustice by not offering any engines other than Mercurys. Guess what??? Brunswick and Whaler don't care just like Donzi does not care. Are any of us here(classic owners) likely to go out and buy a new 35 flat deck? No! So why should Donzi want to support our rendezvous or give a hoot about us? Some may say that we might "change" our minds and buy a new Donzi. Well to spend $10k or more on an event to "maybe" sell one boat is not going to happen and their marketing team knows it. Getting pissed at David for splashing or whatever a classic I think is futile. Why? Donzi has not made a production classic since the 2009 model year, they now want more than an arm or leg, it is ridiculous. Nobody is making small fast boats anymore except Checkmate and Glastron(which are not the best quality). We need more fast affordable boats. My problem is with any boat company that is not established...resale. These Hornets will not replace the sale of our classics just like McKee Craft never stole anything from Whaler owners. Although many now copy the classic Whaler hulls, Whaler can't do much about it because the splashes are made with stringers and such, Whalers are an entirely different process and that is what makes them unique. No offense but the ONLY thing unique about Donzi is the styling, the history, and the name. Basically Donzis are just a boat and nothing niche about them....hence why the Regazzas, early Z's and F-series sell for pennies on the dollar, it is JUST a boat with a decal slapped on it and so is the Hornet.

[Greg Guimond]

You want to sell those Hornets, out with the car motor and clamp one of these on the back :hyper::hyper::hyper::hyper::hyper::hyper::hyper:

[Buddyc]

[ QUOTE=$originalposter]{$pagetext}[/QUOTE]
The Optimax is a wicked motor. I was in a 24 foot Checkmate bowrider with a 300 Optimax... hit 73 easily.accelerated loke a friggin rocket

[Donzi Vol]

[ QUOTE=$originalposter]{$pagetext}[/QUOTE]

LOOOOOVE the orange! Good call :wink:

[woobs]

I read this entire thread the other night...and have been thinking about it ever since (like a song you cant get out of your head)...So I thought my $ 0.02 might cure this (me).

The immediate thought is to shun the "Hornet Marine " group for straying into an area that seems reserved for the greats (Aronow) and the design/development/racing/brand building activities that makes us associate with the DONZI brand. Let me expand...

So I'm looking at my guitar collection which includes 8 Telecasters. I love the look of the Telecaster. Only 2 are all " Fender" USA genuine. I also have telecasters made in Mexico, and Indonesia (my kids Squire). I have custom made Canadian Telecasters using parts built under license from Fender. I have custom made Telecasters using parts from companies not associated with Fender at all. I like them all but my favorite doesnt have a "genuine" Fender part in it.

Like the Telecaster I love the look of the Classic. Like many, I don't LOVE every detail and would prefer to customize my boat. So, if a company can build me a new boat to my prefrences and still give me the look and feel inspired by the classic boats of the past with technology and quality of the present it is a good thing. Affordable makes it even better. The market decides what it is worth.

A FAKE is when you try to pass somthing off as somthing else. A CLONE is an exact copy/reproduction. The Hornet Marine group produces neither of these. They don't call it a DONZI. They don't deny the inspiration though. And they make a boat with the general style/feeling/aura of the great retro days of offshore with a modern package perscribed by their customer. Good on 'em.

I'm a little surprised after reading the entire thread on the 16OB build with all the design and engineering decisions made to modify that particular Donzi that there would be an issue as to the ethical integrity of the Hornet boats. Is that 16OB still a Donzi? If the answer is yes after all those modifications because the hull was originally built by Donzi then the Hornet Marine 17 is most definately Not a Donzi even if it was a splash of a Donzi hull. If the answer is no and the modifications are too many or of the extreme that the 16OB no longer represents what came from the Donzi factory The Hornet Marine 17 can not be a Donzi because of the numerous developments and changes it has made.

Either way...they're legit. Possibly it's just the "Hornet" name/script that is really some peoples issue? Again inspired by a time gone by, but not representing a fake or clone...I say get over it.

Maybe if they survive the economy, and gather a following (maybe by a race spec series) in time they may even eclipse their Donzi inspiration. My big question is...When are you going to build a 22?

If you actually read all of this....sorry.
Maybe I'll get a different "song" in my head now...

[joseph m. hahnl]

When I first got my Minx in 2005. I met Dave at the LG fall picnic. Me and my girl camped on the same island. I thought he was a stand up guy and I still do. I have personally seen these boats up close and personal. They are fantastic, they have all the trick features that you flat deckers would want.
Totally agree with George
Ray Hunt is the father of the 24 degree dead rise, yet some of you act like Don A and Donzi invented it.Well they didn't they took an existing design and modified and improved on it. Don went on to improve it a few times over when he sold Donzi.
So I don't see the point in making an ordeal over a 17 foot Deep V with a 24 degree dead rise that could be considered just as much a Four Winns as a Donzi.

Great job Dave, it truly shows the passion you have for performance boats.



To Mike O: You are what you eat:wink:

[jl1962]

Woobs - I've owned a lot of old Telecasters from the 50's and 60's, newer reissues, relics, American Standard etc as well....Right now my favorite "Telecaster" is a Nash. Bill Nash gets "it", Leo would be proud. I have a '67 Ski Sporter and it's a great boat - like an old Fender. That said, Hornet makes a great boat and David and the rest of the people at the Company are truly committed. They get "it" too! We are a small community and we are lucky someone is still in a position to make this type of boat.

:yes:

[woobs]

Amen brother.

[Greg Guimond]

Any chance that 1100lb Hornet hull is ever going to see an eggbeater on the back? I wonder what the weight difference would be between whatever Hornet is using for I/O power and an OB package :lookaroun:

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

David Hartman , just curious instead of back peddling thru this thread , and siffting thru all the $hit ....................could you please throw a layup schedule out there to each , and everyone to view .

[David Hartmann]

[ QUOTE=$originalposter]{$pagetext}[/QUOTE]

Our lay-up has changed a couple of times. Currently we are using a combination of chopped strand and various weaves of combo mat. I know you are involved in the industry If you or someone you know would like to quote our fiberglass production I can send you the specifics of what we are looking for.

The reason we have made changes in the past was to reduce the post production finishing time.

[David Hartmann]

[ QUOTE=$originalposter]{$pagetext}[/QUOTE]
We will build one someday. We have discussed the option with a couple of customers. As soon as we get an order for one we will build it.

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

David i sent you an E- Mail in regards to your post #142...................Artie

[David Hartmann]

Come celebrate the holiday season & toast to a successful year of business at the
Hornet Marine Open House Christmas Party!

Tuesday, December 13th, 2011
3 - 9 PM

Hornet Marine
400 Middle Street
Bristol, CT 06010

Cocktails and hors d'oeuvres will be served. Come when you can & stay as long as you like!


Our facility is located across the street from ESPN's North Campus, in the same building as Gold's Gym. The entrance is located around the back of the building off of Vincent P. Kelly Road.
Click to view our location on Google Maps


We will have the latest custom boats on display, and will also be unveiling two NEW Hornet 17's at 4:30 PM & 6:30 PM.

We hope to see you!

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

David i still would like to talk with you concerining the specifics on what you are looking for in your build that was mentioned in post 142 and will try to get in touch with you this week .

[David Hartmann]

Hi all, just an update: in addition to building our custom boats, Hornet Marine is now expanding into offering parts and service directly from our facility in Bristol, CT. Services we now offer include routine maintenance on all Mercruiser power plants, as well as boat restorations, re-powers, buffing and detailing. You can contact us directly at 860-516-3141.

[David Hartmann]

I wanted to share this pic from our shop this morning - finished laying out instruments on another custom Hornet 17. A testament to the great attention to detail & skill of our staff and suppliers.

Wait until you see the whole boat, it is a work of art!

[olredalert]

----I like it!!!!!!.......Bill S

[Tidbart]

That is cool, David. Keep up the good work.

B

[Pismo]

Saw one at Americade in LG this past weekend. Looked nice, very nice interior. Donzi is not building them anymore so I am glad someone is, as long as they keep the build quality up.

[CHACHI]

Pismo, is this the one you saw?

I like the HD Bar and Shield on it.

[Pismo]

That is it. Looked nice.

[CHACHI]

Everytime I passed it, the cover was on it, never saw the inside.

I am wondering if this is an authorized use of the HD logo.

Ken

[zelatore]

I'm going to bet that's owner installed and not affiliated with HD in any official way.Doesn't work for me....don't see a connection between HD and performance boats???

[zelatore]

I'm going to bet that's owner installed and not affiliated with HD in any official way.It looks OK, but doesn't really work for me....hard to see a connection between HD and performance boats???

[David Hartmann]

Just showing our way to do a racing stripe. Thank you to Livorsi Marine, J&D fiberglass and Premiere Performance Interiors for their continued support.

This boat can be seen at

- Garden State Yacht Sales
- 1951 Rutgers Univ. Blvd., Lakewood, NJ 08701
- Phone 732-363-4660

http://www.gardenstateyachtsales.com/

[Rob M]

That is really cool.

[John C in PA]

...was a stinkin' t-shirt :biggrin: :biggrin:

I was on a business trip near Hornet Marine and I dropped by unannounced. Even tho it was late Friday afternoon David welcomed me in and gave me a shop tour. He knew I wasn't a customer (I told him I have a Sweet 16) but hatches were opened and covers removed. I offered some suggestions which he listened to. The 'glass work looks good, fit and finish good, sure is a lot of crap on catalyzed engines, vinyl used for upholstery is nice looking and high quality, I like in-floor and up-front storage, easily accessible battery(s) and built-in cooler, lounge seatbacks are installed on hooks (no snaps) and the bottom of the cushions are extended to fit about 1/2" into the storage boxes (again no snaps). Much attention to detail. Virtually anything can be customized to customer request (e.g. Lenco tabs can be changed to Bennets; or you can get round or oval rails). I would have liked to look around some more but the guys were going home for the day.

Zelatore, the H-D boat is a one-off special. Fine looking boat up close, especially the sole treatment. Anybody in the area really ought to call David for a tour.

John C in PA

[David Hartmann]

...was a stinkin' t-shirt :biggrin: :biggrin:

I was on a business trip near Hornet Marine and I dropped by unannounced. Even tho it was late Friday afternoon David welcomed me in and gave me a shop tour. He knew I wasn't a customer (I told him I have a Sweet 16) but hatches were opened and covers removed. I offered some suggestions which he listened to. The 'glass work looks good, fit and finish good, sure is a lot of crap on catalyzed engines, vinyl used for upholstery is nice looking and high quality, I like in-floor and up-front storage, easily accessible battery(s) and built-in cooler, lounge seatbacks are installed on hooks (no snaps) and the bottom of the cushions are extended to fit about 1/2" into the storage boxes (again no snaps). Much attention to detail. Virtually anything can be customized to customer request (e.g. Lenco tabs can be changed to Bennets; or you can get round or oval rails). I would have liked to look around some more but the guys were going home for the day.

Zelatore, the H-D boat is a one-off special. Fine looking boat up close, especially the sole treatment. Anybody in the area really ought to call David for a tour.

John C in PA

Glad you stopped by. Thank you for taking the time to post your input. We have been thinking about your battery switch location recommendation. It may happen on our next build.

David

[Greg Guimond]

Glad you stopped by. Thank you for taking the time to post your input. We have been thinking about your battery switch location recommendation. It may happen on our next build. DavidDavid, have you ever thought about a wacker in the backer? Should be 10mph faster than your I/O model. Photo courtesy of the chopmaster :yippie:

[Greg Guimond]

You have two other manufacturers building new 16 models, Tuff and Sutphen.

[BLACKBOX]

At least the Hornet is good-looking boat - the Tuff and Sutphen are toads...

[David Hartmann]

David, have you ever thought about a wacker in the backer? Should be 10mph faster than your I/O model. Photo courtesy of the chopmaster :yippie:

Yes we have thought of it. We are willing to do it. WE have one customer that may be interested. We also are con siding a bracket. I think we would down size the power instead of try for faster. Honestly I think over 55 gets a little intense. We have hit 62 mph but i am not sure that is for everyone. We have considered running surface mods for extreme speeds. But as it is the boat is so stable ad so fun under 55 we have never had customers push for more speed. I do appreciate the ideas. Love the picture!!

Thanks for thinking of us!

[David Hartmann]

You have two other manufacturers building new 16 models, Tuff and Sutphen.

I think this is a good thing. I have driving one of those old sutphen's with a merc 4 cyl on it and it was a blast.

Really not sure what the market is for these. We are having a tough time moving a couple of 2011 leftovers.

[David Hartmann]

At least the Hornet is good-looking boat - the Tuff and Sutphen are toads...

Thanks for support. I think they are speaking to a different market. Our standards had to be a high as they were set by those that came before us.

[Greg Guimond]

Yes we have thought of it. We are willing to do it. We have one customer that may be interested. We also are considing a bracket. I think we would down size the power instead of try for faster. Honestly I think over 55 gets a little intense. We have hit 62 mph but i am not sure that is for everyone. We have considered running surface mods for extreme speeds.
Thanks for thinking of us!

I understand David. I might suggest you use a mini-well, that way you could keep the basic design and go with a smaller bracket. The space under the engine hatch becomes a very large storage well and not as much re-tooling for the wacker option is required. I have experimented with as much as 12" of setback and with a mini-well approach you would probably only need 8" to fully tilt the motor up. That would also be about right for the CoG for that hull. Now of course think how cool an H.O would look on the back.

[Greg Guimond]

Really not sure what the market is for these. We are having a tough time moving a couple of 2011 leftovers.


I'm surprised you still have 2011's, post up some pics if you are allowed to, which I suspect you are. On the other 16's, Tuff has carved out a very loyal following in Canada for there boats. They are very progressive with lamination and I guess have been building for our Northern brothers for 10 years now. There 21 runs 102mph with stock power. I think you could easily use a small block ETEC 200 on your Hornet's and have a light and fuel efficient 60mph cruiser that was stable as a rock.

[Greg Guimond]

Nordic also uses the mini splashwell concept on their production Crossfire 21 which ironically also uses the same lounge style seating as your Hornet :cool:

[Greg Guimond]

I went over to the website to look at a Warlock and they also have a nice looking new Hornet 17 for sale in Texas. No mention of what power it has in it :screwy:

[David Hartmann]

We are booking major projects and indoor heated storage for the winter. If anyone has finally decided to get something major done on there boat we are here. We have the experience and the tools to handle anything from a reposer to a split and recore. Call or email to discuss your project. We will only take two major projects this winter and up to 6 repower jobs.


David Hartmann
Hornet Marine
860 516 3141 shop
860 944 1210 cell

[David Hartmann]

First of all let me start by saying I love Donzi's or more specifically, Classic Donzi's. My father worked closely with Jim Wynne to build/rig a boat to Jim's specs. He stood between Jim Wynne and Walt Walters while they won the 66 sam griffith Memorial. I grew up with a 19 St Tropez because he knew it was a great boat designed by people he knew. I love Donzi's so much I have restored several. I love Donzi's so much I built a company trying build on the idea that Donzi was to me. I grew up knowing that Donzi's were great boats and as a kid always believed that our boat was "cooler" than anyone else's(so i may have be a bit of a jerk about that haha). The point is that I believe in great boats. I think many of you here believe in great boats.

I know that no one has ever beat us up when it comes to quality. I have to share some of the ways that we build our boats because I think every boat builder should build great boats.

I am going to share a few pictures over the next few days. Just to share how some builders do things and why I think they should be done different. I am sure there is some difference of opinion and some may have experience and can provide even better solutions.

We like to use adhesive lined heat shrink connectors (Hornet Marine). These do a much better job of keeping corrosion at bay. Traditional connectors(some boat builders) allow for a lot of air at the exposed wire ends and also they do not provide for strain relief.
I also recommend ring terminals over fork style. They are more time consuming to install but they will not fall off.

I think the best way to go is to use non insulated crimps(aerospace) and then solder them before sleeving with Adhesive lined heat shrink. This is a time consuming method and we rarely do this.

[David Hartmann]

We wrap our wiring with TechFlex. I do not think it is all that important to wrap the wires assuming that the harness is properly secured. You can see in one of the pictures the wiring harness is rubbing against a sharp fiberglass edge. This is bad no matter what. But a protective wrap on the harness would increase the life even in this situation. Also Stainless steel cushion clamps are the best way to go for supporting heavy wires. A wiring harness can get quite heavy and in rough conditions a wiring harness can break a zip tie. We use zip ties run through weld mount tie mounts for smaller wiring harness applications. Also make sure the harness is supported at least every 18"

[Greg Guimond]

Very nice work. On the 17 I/Os engine "cover" did you make your own mold for that glass hatch as well as the deck?

[joseph m. hahnl]

That looks a lot neater that's for sure. :worthy:It's little things like that that add up to big on Quality:kingme:.When I look under the Minx's dash board its like an A.D.H.D. mess :nilly: On a side note* You don't daisy chain the gauges or at least it's hidden, that is also neat in appearance:biggrin.:



http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=79583&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1399662335 http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=79526&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1399135194

[Carl C]

Donzi factory wiring on my 2005. I also had a hard to track down intermittent ground fault behind the dash where a wire wasn't even in the crimp connector but held on with the shrink wrap.

http://i763.photobucket.com/albums/xx275/CARLC222/sloppydonziwiring-1.jpg (http://s763.photobucket.com/user/CARLC222/media/sloppydonziwiring-1.jpg.html)

[Greg Guimond]

The back of the dash on my 16 ...............

[Carl C]

The back of my dash LOOKS nice. It's where you wren't supposed to see it that they didn't care.

[David Hartmann]

The back of the dash on my 16 ...............

That must be custom work we do not see many manufactures doing work this good.

It looks life there ring connectors are heat shank sealed ager the crimp, are they soldered also.

In engineering school they always beat into us that solder is not a mechanical connection and crimping is not an electrical connection. By those standards almost no boat has proper wire termination.

What is amazing to me is that almost everyone on this forum does better work than almost every boat builder.

The workmanship we see on even the good brands is just not what it should be.

[David Hartmann]

Very nice work. On the 17 I/Os engine "cover" did you make your own mold for that glass hatch as well as the deck?

Yes we did. Actually about three times. If we had to make another I would increase the gap. It would not look as nice but it would be much easier to fit the hinges and hardware for smooth opening and closing. The New Donzi's have a large gap around this hatch for this reason. I don't knock them for that, It makes sense.

[David Hartmann]

Just an idea of what we have been up to.

Official Unveiling at Ibex next month

[bertsboat]

Is it a St Tropez?
Looks good.

[mattyboy]

Just an idea of what we have been up to.

Official Unveiling at Ibex next month

where is that?


any chance for the Norwalk IWBS??

[olredalert]

----David,,,We need more info. The workmanship looks absolutely 1st class. I may have a customer for you......Bill S

[David Hartmann]

Boat's official unveiling at IBEX in Tampa
30 September 2014

8084680847

[duckhunter]

The engine box with storage and a dedicated chart compartment is awesome. Stuff a 4cyl diesel under there and she'd be a killer yacht tender.

Great job on the rigging, everything looks top-shelf.

[mattyboy]

http://www.prlog.org/12372120-hornet-marine-to-unveil-newest-model-and-business-strategy-at-ibex.html

[David Hartmann]

The engine box with storage and a dedicated chart compartment is awesome. Stuff a 4cyl diesel under there and she'd be a killer yacht tender.

Great job on the rigging, everything looks top-shelf.

Thank you for the kind comments.

Yes you are right this boat most likely will get a diesel engine when she is sold.

[David Hartmann]

Steering wheel with secondary hidden dash panel closed

Also notice the antenna mount modified to take the cable through the mount. Simple things, It is amazing to me that these are not standard components in the boating world.

Thank you for the kind words. We are really looking forward to showing this boat to boatbuilders at IBEX next week.

[BUIZILLA]

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=80892&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1411446274

love the Donzi rod holders..

way to represent :cool!:

[Carl C]

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=80892&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1411446274

love the Donzi rod holders..

way to represent :cool!:

:) . . . .

[David Hartmann]

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=80892&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1411446274

love the Donzi rod holders..

way to represent :cool!:

The Donzi rod holders were made by Smith or Lee (I forget) so they are very good quality. I actual wish they were not branded as it confuses some people. But yes they are cool

[bertsboat]

So, how close to 6 figures is it?

[Greg Guimond]

Thank you for the kind words. We are really looking forward to showing this boat to boatbuilders at IBEX next week.


You folks are doing exceptional work. I'd like to see your newest model as a tender on this instead of the RIB ..............

[David Hartmann]

So, how close to 6 figures is it?

Well if it is closest without out going over, You lose. It is well over.

This is not the average boat. It has every feature one could ask for on a boat this size. It is also built to ABYC standards or better. It is built for an uncompromising customer.

All in all it is actually a very good values for boats in this class.

[David Hartmann]

We are excited to be able to show boatbuilders form all over the world our capabilities.

We are ale honored by the many suppliers that are sponsoring our exhibit.


If anyone is in the Tampa area next week send a message if you can stop by. I should be able to get you into the show

[David Hartmann]

This is just a brainstorming list. but it gives an idea of a few of the features. It is not complete.

Features
Trolling motor with GPS anchor and wireless control
Simrad Structure Scan HD side scan sonar
Simrad down scan sonar
Autopilot
fresh and raw water wash down systems
25 gallon Live well raw water and recirculating capabilities
19 fishing rod holders
Two 12 gallon day coolers
55 gallon Floor cooler
4 AGM Batteries 1 House, 1 Engine, 2 Trolling
2 color Underwater lights
Chart storage view table
DTS controls
Front and Rear Ready to through anchor lockers
Auto Leveling Trim tabs
Fully lit auto-on storage area lights
Ultra rugged 4 stringer fiberglass construction
63 Gallon fuel capacity
17 Gallon Fresh water capacity
Transom control for stereo drive trim and Underwater lights
Fresh water engine flush system
3 vent cockpit heater
Satellite weather and audio
12” chart plotter
Smart tow engine control
Merc Monitor instrumentation
Full NMEA 2K network
NMEA Fuel sender
Auto Combine battery charging system
Built in dual bank trolling motor battery charger
Bow mount fishing pedestal
Large traditional compass
Helm Emergency center (Flashlight, Horn, Handheld VHF)
Built in VHF and 8’ antenna
Audiophile 5 speaker iPod ready stereo system
Bow NMEA display and stereo control
Duel Bilge pumps
LED lighting thorough out boat
Seven 12-volt power outlets
Fresh water shower
Swim platform with hideaway ladder and dash indicator
Dry bait storage
Large aft Storage compartment
Synthetic teak deck on cockpit floor and on bow
Lifting eyes
Flush mount line chocks and midship cleats
1000 watt inverter
Red night fishing LED lights
Full perimeter LED lighting
Docking Lights
Drive cooling shower
6 Stainless steel grab rails
8’ Bimini top
Convertible Seat to Sun-pad across back deck
Hydraulic Steering
Wiring diagram and all component manuals loaded into dash display
2 Integrated gunwale rod boxes
Fender Storage
Carpet bow storage area
Cargo nets in storage compartments
Fluxgate compass
PFD storage

Trailer
Trolling motor storage
Plastic covered trailer bunks
Custom aluminium dual axle trailer
4 wheel disc brakes
Storage box with internal lighting
Spare tire
Aluminium wheels
3 quick ratcheting tie downs
LED running lights
Easy retrieve 6 bunk ultra support design folding tongue

[BUIZILLA]

what does it have for power now?

[duckhunter]

How 'bout a Volvo D4?

http://www.marinepowerservice.com/images/790xD4_225_DPH_highres.jpg

[BUIZILLA]

a D3 would fit better....

[duckhunter]

a D3 would fit better....

There you go, being all practical. :biggrin.:

How 'bout a CAT C7? Might need to stuff that sucker under the console and run a jackshaft. And move the boot stripe up a couple of inches...

[David Hartmann]

it has a merc 350 MPI DTS ECT Bravo

It will go with a Cummins as that is Mercs Diesel choice .

[BUIZILLA]

it has a merc 350 MPI DTS ECT Bravo

It will go with a Cummins as that is Mercs Diesel choice . not all Cummins engines, are Cummins engines.... they have a poor history of using other *brands* for a couple years, then abandoning them for something else.... the owners are then stuck for ZERO parts, and ZERO support, or repowering at huge expense...

if it was me, for small diesel I/O power, i'd stick with the Volvo line, without hesitation... a D3-190/225/DPX would be an awesome choice

[David Hartmann]

not all Cummins engines, are Cummins engines.... they have a poor history of using other *brands* for a couple years, then abandoning them for something else.... the owners are then stuck for ZERO parts, and ZERO support, or repowering at huge expense...

if it was me, for small diesel I/O power, i'd stick with the Volvo line, without hesitation... a D3-190/225/DPX would be an awesome choice

Well actually the boat would come with whatever power the customer wants. It would just be easiest to convert to a Diesel Merc.

You are correct on the concern of parts and support, on a potential yacht tender worldwide support is a critical issue.

[MDonziM]

The pictures in post 196 look really awesome: the teak looks great and the helm/controls too. I would lose the trolling motor in all but 1 picture imo.

[David Hartmann]

The pictures in post 196 look really awesome: the teak looks great and the helm/controls too. I would lose the trolling motor in all but 1 picture imo.


Well the trolling motor is on a quick release plate for easy removal. But it is a very cool feature to have for taking pictures. The boat has about a 300 foot range with wireless controller.

[MDonziM]

That is pretty cool. Best of luck with sales.

- M

[Cracker box]

Really impressive fishing St T David! What a work (as on every boat you construct).

I am in a resto project of my St T and i really wonder how you made the 2 removable seats on each sides of the engine box.

I plan to add two seats in this place but have not yet decided how to construct it.

Thanks

[David Hartmann]

Really impressive fishing St T David! What a work (as on every boat you construct).

I am in a resto project of my St T and i really wonder how you made the 2 removable seats on each sides of the engine box.

I plan to add two seats in this place but have not yet decided how to construct it.

Thanks

On my St. Tropez i just used two marine igloo coolers to support a hard backed custom cushion, That worked great. On this Hornet 20 We made custom stainless steel seat mounts and receivers. There are two bars that span from the engine box to the gunwale then the seat sits on these bars. This makes it so the coolers can slide out with the seat still in place and also allows for seats to be mounted at the same height as the top of the engine box.

I will post pictures soon.

[David Hartmann]

Just letting people that we are here if anyone has any questions or needs regarding custom building or restoration.

davidyh@me.com
860 516 3141

[Cracker box]

OK, I can see the holes for the bars on the previous pictures.
Nice idea, with 2 positions available.

Thank you for your help David.

[David Hartmann]

Just letting everyone know that Hornet Marine has a face book page.

https://www.facebook.com/hornetmarine

We 452 likes It would be cool to get to 500. It helps us create awareness. We also share a little bit of information about the industry on there that some of you folks may be interested. Stop by our page and click like.

Hope everyone is enjoying the winter.

It is cold out on the lake today.

[jl1962]

And windy!

Nice view.
:)

[Just Say N20]

Very cool and appropriate. My " like" was #454.

The exact same size as the engine in my new Criterion!

[CHACHI]

Better go play it.

Ken