Are New Donzi Classics An Endangerd Species?

[Carl C]

I will probably get raked over the coals for speculating or starting rumors or whatever but I can't help but wonder if the small Donzis are going to go the way of the 20 and 24 foot Cigarettes. Donzi has announced that they intend to build 70 boats this year and indications are that most will be ZRs. If I go to Donzi dealer's web sites I see new Classics a couple years old still in stock. I'd hate to see this happen but if it is needed to keep Donzi in business then I guess we will have to accept it. I just would like to hear other's opinions whether pure speculation or from those who "know things". Are new Classics done?? Donzi's future seems to be secure for now so I don't see how discussing this can harm them. Maybe it will give them some insight, actually, since they do follow this site.

[gcarter]

Carl, think positive!
If Classics aren't selling now, and there's available enventory, why would they build any now?
I bet you that when there's demand, there'll be some Classics.
Just my opinion.
I'm surprised you didn't include a poll!
LOL :wink:

[Barry Eller]

If Donzi discontinues Classics, I would think the value of existing Classics would go up or at least stabilize. I'm not saying that I hope they discontinue Classics.

[joseph m. hahnl]

There was an article when Donzi was first bought out,That Single engine boats were not going to be produced.What I assumed was they only wanted to build multi engine large ZR's .

It doesn't really matter to me if they do. I will never be able to afford
to buy either:frown:.
So here I am with a 1988 Minx, and I am happy with that:yes:

[Greg Guimond]

There is a lot of brand equity wrapped up in the Classic series so it would be bad marketing to publicy announce any discontinuation to the line. I suspect it will be a buld on demand approach and I do agree that it will help the older Classics with stable prices.

[Carl C]

No poll, George. More interested in discussion. Yes, a plus would be that our existing Classics will become more valuable with time like the Cig 20s have but it will still be sad if Donzi gets rid of the molds and moves to larger boats only. Of course my main concern is that we not lose Donzi entirely and it looks like we will not!! :)

[rr1048]

It unfortunately is probably a matter of economics. The same situation happened to Cigarette, Magnum and other high quality boat manufacturers. I recall many years ago when Cigarette stopped building 20's that the reality was that they could build a 28' with twins for a modest additional cost and sell for a great deal more. When you look at a smaller boat, it is practically just about the same work to build larger boat. All it requires is more fiberglass,extra set of gauges,engine and drive, larger this and that (you get the picture) and you have a boat that is 30 -50% larger and you can sell for a good deal more profit margin. One of the greatest factors in building high quality boats that are essentially hand built/one off is the high and increasing cost of labor. If you look at Lipship Performance and the 20' Cigarettes that they build, it will cost you in the neighborhood of $200,000 =/- for a 20' Cigarette.
You can buy a lot of other boats for $200K and the market gets very thin with these specialty boats.
Enjoy the smaller boats they are priceless! When you consider grins for the dollar, they are the best investment you can make in personal enjoyment.

[gcarter]

There's a lot to what RR1048 says. Last year, someone asked me to restore a Donzi 14, and I could have restored a Minx for the same price.
Boats are pretty labor intensive and hull materials don't change a lot w/size......w/in a range of sizes. At least in our type of boats.

A trip to the Antique Boat Show coming up will show how many small 14'-18' runabouts were built from the 40's and up to the 60's.
This whole catagory of boat has been destroyed by the PWC market. Obviously, PWCs are considerably less expensive to build than purpose built boats. I think it's a shame this has happened. Unless you want a fishing boat in that size, you almost have no choices.

[VetteLT193]

Craig Barrie of Donzi said that they are focusing on high end stuff. It is not size specific but high end specific. Doesn't matter if someone wants a high end 22 or a high end 38 ZR or a high end fish boat. He was saying that is the stuff selling, with the included

Now... that was a few months ago when I bought my boat. Pre Fountain, etc.

My honest guess is they will sell anything a customer wants with a nice price tag attached. Same thing that Cigarette did and continues to do. They popped a new 20' not long ago and had Lipship rig it. But that 20' was custom and $$$$. So, you want a new classic... great. it will be custom built for you not sitting on a showroom floor.

[mattyboy]

let's first look at the basis or foundation that the Donzi classic was built on and the benchmark they set in the boating industry. it was a high quality, well performing, production hi po boat made for the mid to upper classes but loved and desired by the masses. the race on sunday,sell on monday marketing.

they have a loyal following to the classic line which has been in place for over 40 years, the ZX and ZR lines have not been around that long so loyal followings have not yet been established. their move to compete with the likes of outerlimits,Cig,and the other high end custom boats could be their death sentence. Each high end mfg'r has an indentity or niche in the market. Cig is known for quality and fit and finish they might not be the fastest but they have their own loyal fans of which very few jump to another brand. the OL guys are more a own a fast over the top race boat. what will donzi niche be ?? price,quality,speed,performance????

Face it the need or market for an under 24 hi po deep vee is dying fast. between increasing legislation on inland water ways with speed limits,noise regs,no wake zones,wildlife protection,and public sentiment. the world of HI PO boating is moving offshore out into the ocean. if you are going to play there you need something other than a classic. you don't have to be a marketing guru to know you sell what sells. if you have orders for certain boats you make them. the balancing act is and will always be profitabilty, seems CIG and OL know that Cig didn't make the 30 vice for too long it wasn't selling.

classic values are down due to the economy but still have kept their value pretty well. if they go the way of the doe-doe bird, values will not increase until the economy gets rolling again. the only one that will see an enhanced value will be "the last Classic" to roll off the line.
also let's not compare values of a 20 cig and a classic that is not fair evaluation the 20 cig is a true limited production boat with approx. 145 hulls made in a 34 year period. there were probably 145 22 hulls produced in 1988 so there are alot more classics around than 20s.

I feel Donzi will be fine as a MFG'r but it will be in a form that most will not recognize, it will be the ZR line without the fish boats or classics.

duplicate offerings will not fly these days. so if i were at the wheel my line up would be

entry level under 26 ish hi po boats family boats like the islander BAJA
fish CC in all sizes would be pro line
express cruiser fountain
high end fast( like world record holding speed) custom /race boat DONZI

I would hate to see the classic go but I feel that ship as already sailed. I hope and wish that donzi does well and can reclaim it's place in HI PO boating.

also let's think about a custom classic, i would hope they would do some homework and come up with a 26 foot boat that is a leading edge deep vee instead of stretching out a 46 yr old 16 foot design.

if you listen closely you can hear the fat lady clearing her throat. I think we have seen the end of what we know as the classic, what we see from here on out will be different.
good things don't last forever

[mike o]

They are only going build what they are going to sell...........:yes:

[Okie2]

Only building 70/year...would assume all are built to specs & by order...not just pumping boats into the world & hoping for a buyer. With that in mind...I think they will build whatever the buyer wants....Does it cost them $$$ to keep a mold for a 16 or 18 around? Don't think so. You buy & they will build....whatever it is.... You might not see many around show room floors. Just my .015 cents worth.

[VetteLT193]

duplicate offerings will not fly these days. so if i were at the wheel my line up would be

entry level under 26 ish hi po boats family boats like the islander BAJA
fish CC in all sizes would be pro line
express cruiser fountain
high end fast( like world record holding speed) custom /race boat DONZI

I agree duplicate offerings won't fly but...

A Baja can't be compared to a custom Donzi.

I think we'll see offerings from a pair of manufacturers for different boats. One high end, one 'regular' i.e. a price point boat.

My guess is Baja does the small production price point stuff
Fountain gets production performance
Fountain also gets higher end CC's
Custom of any size or type = Donzi

Cruisers I have no clue... seems like every manufacturer in the world makes one now and none of these marks are very good at making them. I think that they might get out of that market segment.

[mattyboy]

Only building 70/year...would assume all are built to specs & by order...not just pumping boats into the world & hoping for a buyer. With that in mind...I think they will build whatever the buyer wants....Does it cost them $$$ to keep a mold for a 16 or 18 around? Don't think so. You buy & they will build....whatever it is.... You might not see many around show room floors. Just my .015 cents worth.

"you buy" it being the key that's missing right now no one is buying small go fasts new

the molds don't cost anything , but what will be the cost from pulling manpower off a 600k boat to build a 60k boat??? and at what profit margins???? the ticket on a 16 or 18 "custom " built will be way to high especially when the market is flooded with new unsold classics and used classics. why spend big bucks on a custom 18 when i can get a new 22 left over for the same or less money?? a step up for no increased investment.

Plus they will be out of their element so to speak , they will be out of practice laying up a classic,plus increased inventory cost to get the hardware for a classic.

Mike O is right this is a new world, no room for error , make it,sell it at your price and make money with less overhead. Custom does that there is no haggle you want this, this costs X amount

[mattyboy]

Vette

I agree Baja is no Donzi but a custom Donzi is no entry level go fast at a price point.

if a new buyer is looking get into a go fast and not break the bank, baja has been that boat for a long time. i would say baja would be under 25 ish single engine entry level go fast.

fountain will be the 40 ish triple powered luxury speed yacht


donzi ?? that's what I am not sure of

[Sweet Cheekz]

Well said Matty
One thing I would add is that the used boat market has basically collapsed and you can buy a lot of boat for very little money now and in the foreseeable future. I have a friend boat shopping and I talked to him about a newer classic. He looked at a few in the 25-35k range and out of the blue calls me yesterday about a 1997 382 Formula with 500 hps, 300 hours for 39K! Not really caring about Donzi classic heritage, its a real eye opener for him Thats an extreme example but with leftover new classics in the 60-80k range the pool of buyers is most certainly shrinking quickly. Most people don't balance cost of ownership with their perceived value of a bigger boat for the same or less money. The smart money is on a classic or two being built by Donzi for a custom client per year like what Phil does with 20's. Just my .02 cents worth
Parnell

[Carl C]

I can't see them building only one or two a year. There are too many proprietary parts and training involved. They would have to offer more power options too for a custom boat.

[silverghost]

I think we also have to remember that the 16 & 18 later production or last production classics were not made from the same molds as the late 60s-70s Classics.
Donzi made their later molds from "Splashes" !
If the market changes, and it eventually will , Donzi could always re-activate the Classic line in a similar manner.
The big problem for any boatbuilder today is labor cost.
Thus they will build whatever is bringing them the biggest return for their investment & whatever is actually selling !
Sadly today very little is selling to the average guy out there. Money is tight & few banks are lending any money on new boats; and there is no money to lend on high-risk used boats. Banks do not want to get stuck with a boat if the borrower defaults on a loan.
Any successful boat-builders in the future must change with the economy & market or they will soon go out of business.
Just look at what has happened in the last few years. How many boat lines have gone belly-up?
Investors are buying-up these great names like Donzi & Fountain for cents on a $ dollar because they think in the long term it is worth the risk & they will make big money in the future when the market turns around.
I'm betting with them!
For now everyone should buy the best used boat around that they always wanted & could not justify or afford.
There is a big discount SALE going-on right now.
We might never see these low $$$ prices again in our lifetimes ! ?

[gcarter]

I can't see them building only one or two a year. There are too many proprietary parts and training involved. They would have to offer more power options too for a custom boat.
Sorry Carl, but I don't agree w/this at all.
Besides the glass parts Donzi makes, EVERYTHING is off the shelf except for upholtery, windshield, dash, and wiring harness. There's nothing proprietary about what goes into a Classic.
As far as complexity and training goes, how many 45's do you think they build a year?

[Carl C]

Sorry Carl, but I don't agree w/this at all.
Besides the glass parts Donzi makes, EVERYTHING is off the shelf except for upholtery, windshield, dash, and wiring harness. There's nothing proprietary about what goes into a Classic.
As far as complexity and training goes, how many 45's do you think they build a year?

What about the lifting ring hardware and interior side panels and interior and carpet, etc.

[mattyboy]

to my knowledge the 16 mold was the only mold that was taken from a splash.

doesn't matter if they are off the shelf or made by donzi, things like the grab rail on 16 and 18 are an added overhead, things that can be made in house reduce the operating overhead and maximize the profit margin. a glass fairing on the 22 instead of a OEM windshield. a glass pod for the gauges on the zr not paying for a dash plate and so on.

ding dong the donzi classic as we know it is dead.

[gcarter]

What about the lifting ring hardware and interior side panels and interior and carpet, etc.

The lifting rings have been deleted from a lot of the newer 22's. Everything else you mentioned is included in upholstery, which I mentioned.

[gcarter]

ding dong the donzi classic as we know it is dead.

Matty, is this supposed to rhyme with "the Wicked Witch is Dead"?

[fogducker III]

Not sure what the fuss is about....:confused:

Some other models that are "gone" are:

Minx, Crits, Ragz, Blackhawks and even the Dink....all this means is that Donzi is "growing" again and moving with the market, I believe we are going to see some very interesting boats in the future and down the road even those will be "collectors".......:wink::yes:

All of us who have a Classic are very lucky, we are a "special" group....:cool:

[mattyboy]

those are really limited edition models, if the 18 is dropped from production it will be the end of the longest run in production for a glass boat 45 years basically unchanged for the last 42 years. the end of the boat that started it all

[G-MAN]

I called Donzi last week asking some questions about our new boat, I asked about the classics, I'm pretty sure they told me if some one ordered one they would build them one. I don't think that it would make it custom job, would just be what they would want to order.

[fasttrucker]

I read on another site that donzi is going to make a couple of company owned boats to show/take to shows.All donzi are now pre-ordered/sold before they are made.Smart move.

[NJFASTECH]

what is the cost of a new 18 classic these days?

[Walt. H.]

Building 70 boats a year is not going to keep the man power needed after expenses are met to support their employees income w/o going belly up sorry to say..

[fasttrucker]

Building 70 boats a year is not going to keep the man power needed after expenses are met to support their employees income w/o going belly up sorry to say..
You forget the zr,s arent cheap.70 is plently.

[mattyboy]

if they avg 250k per boat which is a low number that's annual sales of 17.5 million a year.

how big a work force is needed to get 70 boats out the door?? if they keep cost of sales below 50% that's not a chunk of change to sneeze at.

[Carl C]

I think Donzi will make it. They might move into the Fountain facility. But I didn't want this to become talk about Donzi in general. If the Classics are done though then this is a huge moment in Donzi's history. The good thing is that we won't run out of them for a while! :)

[BUIZILLA]

you can contact Josh Stickles at DonziDirect.com

they WILL build to order, pretty much anything you want, for a price...

I know for a fact there are some build quotes done, and interested parties out there...

they will not build on spec, or for floor plans, only sold orders

[Cuda]

I can't see them building only one or two a year. There are too many proprietary parts and training involved. They would have to offer more power options too for a custom boat.
What parts and training that couldn't be used on another boat? Have you ever seen a boat built?

[Cuda]

What about the lifting ring hardware and interior side panels and interior and carpet, etc.
Carpet comes in big ass rolls.

[Cuda]

I think Donzi building big multi engine boats will be their death knell. I don't see Donzi cutting into the sales of Cigs, Outerlimits, or Nortech, not to mention the big cats.

Boats just aren't moving at all. Craig Barrie is no saviour. He already tried his hand at building boats. Although they were fine boats, nobody bought them, and that's when the economy was good. Look up Dragon boats.

I think it's like the guy who decided to market New Coke.

[gcarter]

Up until now, Donzi's small work force has been working only several days per week, ditto w/ProLine.
W/large boat orders in hand (and hopedfully they exist), that work schedule could easily be increased.
As an aside, between July/'08 to Januarey/'09, we went from 13 employees to five.........
A company has to get costs under control.
When they do, a lot can be accomplished.
I think Donzi will do fine.

[Greg Guimond]

You elders are just a bunch of gloom'sters. Donzi as a builder will do just fine, and the Classics will survive well into 2015. There is no cost to carry forward the heritage, the buyer will pay for what they want, and the factory will build it, even if it is just an occassional order. No doubt that the new costs will help keep the used market stable.

[joseph m. hahnl]

Modern production methods(lean manufacturing) no longer allow for WIP(work in process), or inventory. It will not cost any more money for Donzi to make a rub rail now or in the near future.Even if it does that will be figured into the profit margin. The cost from any manufacturing stand point is in material cost and man hours sitting in inventory on a shelf,or in a warehouse. The whole point of what they are doing is to keep material cost and labor to a minimum and only make what is already sold. In this method there is also shorter lead times as the production schedule is not bogged down by having man hours on boats that are going to sit in wharehouse. The man hours are only for boats that are sold.

[silverghost]

If enough people want new Classics ~~
Donzi will no doubt build them.

But at what cost ?
What was the last published prices on the 16 & 18 & 22 Classics ?

New Boats... if they are selling at all these days are selling to Cash $ buyers.
This may be why in today's market conditions they wish to build only the higher end & higher priced models .
Banks are not lending any money on boats today.
The average middle class boat buyer cannot borrow any money to buy a new Classic.
This will change some time in the future .

[Pismo]

Hopefully they will keep the molds and someone can get a new one if they are willing to pay up and wait.

A 22 with the new 8.2L would be nice.

[mattyboy]

You elders are just a bunch of gloom'sters. Donzi as a builder will do just fine, and the Classics will survive well into 2015. There is no cost to carry forward the heritage, the buyer will pay for what they want, and the factory will build it, even if it is just an occassional order. No doubt that the new costs will help keep the used market stable.


Greg, that is my point exactly.

what we know has the donzi classic is done, over,stick a fork in it. it is no longer a production boat it is a special order item. no longer a nat'l offering thru a dealer network but only ordered thru the factory. which will now make it more of a florida boat. just like you have west coast boats now this will make Donzi a regional offering.
this also means no R&D for the line so no more "special editions" .

unless I am missing the market segment that wants to fly into fla drop 75k on an 18 foot boat then pay to have it transported back home.

as I said before I hope this is the "turtle" defense for donzi pull everthing in limit exposure until the danger is past. a big milestone looms in the distance for them in the coming years.
I really would like to see what the 50ths would look like

usually if you weather the storm when you emerge you are stronger for it.

[CHACHI]

Investors are buying-up these great names like Donzi & Fountain for cents on a $ dollar because they think in the long term it is worth the risk & they will make big money in the future when the market turns around.
I'm betting with them!

An investment group by the name of Stellican, (London based I beleive), purchased Chris Craft. Personally I really love what they have done with the boat.

They also bought Indian Motorcycle a few years ago. You can draw your own conculsions.

Ken

[breitstone]

when i ordered my seats for my 1986 18 classic they said that they have so far made only 1 classic

[tmh]

People will start buying when the housing market stabilizes and they are more confident about employment security. Hopefully the outlook will improve after the November elections when these fools can be ousted from control.

To say credit is not available to buy a boat is not accurate. When I bought my 18 eight months ago I used $10k on my credit card with interest at 1.99% for 18 months. It was cheap money and I'll have the bulk of the loan paid by the end of the year. If I didn't have it paid off I could roll the balance into another discount balance transfer offer. Home equity loans and credit lines still exist. I wish I'd known that yellow 22 classic was going to be available for $24k.

T.M. Hayes

[Carl C]

If you have good credit financing is no problem.

Donzi will survive. They may end up sharing facilities with Fountain.

Classics do take special training and skills to build. There are lots of wood components to be cut and assembled properly. Lay-up has got to be different from the bigger boats.

I bought my 22 new from pier 57's inventory. I wouldn't have waited for a custom built one. I don't think many people will.

Indian was doomed from the start. They were counting on stealing customers from the Harley crowd. Not many took the bait.

I think that the build to order only thing is just to get them through these tough times. Eventually there will need to be inventory available. Will Classics be part of that inventory? I doubt it but hope I'm wrong on that.

[mike o]

If you have good credit financing is no problem.

Donzi will survive. They may end up sharing facilities with Fountain.

Classics do take special training and skills to build. There are lots of wood components to be cut and assembled properly. Lay-up has got to be different from the bigger boats.

I bought my 22 new from pier 57's inventory. I wouldn't have waited for a custom built one. I don't think many people will.

Indian was doomed from the start. They were counting on stealing customers from the Harley crowd. Not many took the bait.

I think that the build to order only thing is just to get them through these tough times. Eventually there will need to be inventory available. Will Classics be part of that inventory? I doubt it but hope I'm wrong on that.Actually, the 3 Classic's are simple to build compared their offshore boats..............:yes:

[Cuda]

If you have good credit financing is no problem.

Donzi will survive. They may end up sharing facilities with Fountain.

Classics do take special training and skills to build. There are lots of wood components to be cut and assembled properly. Lay-up has got to be different from the bigger boats.

I bought my 22 new from pier 57's inventory. I wouldn't have waited for a custom built one. I don't think many people will.

Indian was doomed from the start. They were counting on stealing customers from the Harley crowd. Not many took the bait.

I think that the build to order only thing is just to get them through these tough times. Eventually there will need to be inventory available. Will Classics be part of that inventory? I doubt it but hope I'm wrong on that.
Why do you want to keep linking Donzi to Foutain?
It takes no more skill to cut pieces for Classics than any other boat. If you think Classics are laid up different, you're kidding yourself. Fiberglass is fiberglass.

[Carl C]

Why do you want to keep linking Donzi to Foutain?
It takes no more skill to cut pieces for Classics than any other boat. If you think Classics are laid up different, you're kidding yourself. Fiberglass is fiberglass.

Because the huge Fountain plant is underutilized and so is the Donzi plant probably, since production is down. It just might make sense to share facilities. I would like to see Fountain survive also.

OK, I'll accept that the Classics could be built on a per order basis. So start ordering them before they give them up!!:)

[Bamboo Loui]

OK-- I am not a boat builder. I have a business that serves the Auto Tier one supply group with machinery. We have offerings from 50K to 5MM and above.
So in my mind I try to imagine a boat builder-- there are stack ups on margin. Also, things are easier to get lost as the ticket goes up. With the Classics, things are pretty simple. You could actually go out and do an audit of purchased items, you could easily find from 20+yrs experience the labor cost per boat. Material (raw) is easy-- it is by LB -- lobor of course is is above.

With the big boats it much harder for the customer to relate to actual hours. For my company it is the same--- we make the biggest margin on the biggest sales. If we did'nt, we would be out of business---but I have been doing this for 25yrs. Just like the real pros in building boats-- I think there just must be similarities.
For my company a small order of 50K is a pain-- low margin and low ROI of resources.


On the other hand-- a business model could be made of making the Classics--- but you could not build a 38zrc -TODAY-- you will loose money on one or the other in the current market.
I think I could like the model of building the Cs--- but I would build a ton of the best Cs that had ever been there-- so-- some R&D would be necessary-- but easy to make back up.

Anyone want to get together and buy a bunch of molds???????

[THEDONZ33]

I agree duplicate offerings won't fly but...
A Baja can't be compared to a custom Donzi.
I think we'll see offerings from a pair of manufacturers for different boats. One high end, one 'regular' i.e. a price point boat.
My guess is Baja does the small production price point stuff
Fountain gets production performance
Fountain also gets higher end CC's
Custom of any size or type = Donzi
Cruisers I have no clue... seems like every manufacturer in the world makes one now and none of these marks are very good at making them. I think that they might get out of that market segment.

UHHHMMM

I was under the impression that Fountain Is NOT Building ANY boats, or is it the case that Reggie is just NOt involved since They wont let him build boats to HIS standard.

[fasttrucker]

UHHHMMM
I was under the impression that Fountain Is NOT Building ANY boats, or is it the case that Reggie is just NOt involved since They wont let him build boats to HIS standard.
From what Ive been reading they were at the miami boat show with new boats and reggie is still the MAN.....Just with a fewer gold chains:wink:

[Carl C]

From what Ive been reading they were at the miami boat show with new boats and reggie is still the MAN.....Just with a fewer gold chains:wink:

They're gold plated now.

[Dr. David Fleming]

Sorry to get in on this late - busy at work.

Classic - now there is a word. You young guys don't know what you are messing with here.

I have owned several classics from the wooden mahogany boat era and this is what it really means.

It means that the older the thing gets the better it gets. It means that across time, it is never out of date or out of style. It means that if its 60 years old that is great and if it is 70 it is better. It means that if you are driving some old classic and a new boat comes near, folks will be more interested in you old number than what is new, shiney and expensive.

Classics steal your heart the minute you see them, and it is an impression that will never leave you. Is like the "magic lantern" that lights when you meet a certain woman and across the ages of time that magic is always there.

Classics are always there for you! And the "Sweet Sixteen" will always be just as sweet even when you guys are dead and gone. Some teenage punk will be fixing up your classic up in 2075 and gettin just as much kick out of it as you are now. And trying to figure out who Don is in Donzi.

By the way it doesn't matter how fast a classic goes because they are just as impressive at 40mph as they are at 90. It is a thing larger than life. In fact they are impressive just sittin there busted and broke like a fallen bird - better than what is new and shiney. Never disrespect a classic - its not a matter of who or what is faster! Like all beautiful women they all have their place. And you can't resist just fixing them - and you will save them when there is absolutely no logical reason to do so. And thats how museums get filled up with the stuff.

yah classic,

[jl1962]

Yeah man - What he said!
:cool:

[Bamboo Loui]

Here I am at 58 and live here in Michigan-- we have seen some wonderful boats as have others where ever they live-- your "classics" description is too perfect.
I bought my 22c at the ripe old age of 57--cause I love "a" classic. I love lots of classics. I love that I grew up on a lake. Love the sound, the smell, the ride of great beautiful boats.

I bought the Donzi because I remember what it was like as a teen, or younger, hearing, seeing, these beauties run the lake.

[Cuda]

If Donzi quits making Classics, I fear their won't be a Donzi much longer. It was brought up about people plopping down $60K+, I'm sure there will be less people who will plop down half a mil, when they know the boat won't be worth half as much the next year. These people didn't get rich by being stupid.

[VetteLT193]

People will start buying when the housing market stabilizes and they are more confident about employment security. Hopefully the outlook will improve after the November elections when these fools can be ousted from control.

To say credit is not available to buy a boat is not accurate. When I bought my 18 eight months ago I used $10k on my credit card with interest at 1.99% for 18 months. It was cheap money and I'll have the bulk of the loan paid by the end of the year. If I didn't have it paid off I could roll the balance into another discount balance transfer offer. Home equity loans and credit lines still exist. I wish I'd known that yellow 22 classic was going to be available for $24k.

T.M. Hayes


Credit is the #1 reason people in the industry quote for not selling boats. Boat loans are not like they were a few years ago. The banks are quoting high rates and want a bunch of money down.

10 grand is not a problem for most people... but that isn't going to buy you a new Donzi.

16 classic $45k
18 classic $51k
22 classic $65k
27 ZR $90k

Check out boat trader for quickie prices.

Now back to financing. All of these boats should be pretty much for regular joes that have a love for boating. But think about buying the boat, paying the taxes, adding in a trailer and accessories. 20% down is pretty normal these days. So is 8+ % interest.

During the boom years though... it would have been more along the lines of 0 down or very little down with a very good rate (1.9%). that is a whole lot more appealing to this market segment that generally consists of a conservative crowd.

So with all that said there is a big bulk of the market that is currently missing. The cash buyers are somewhat withdrawn but are still there. The market of regular dudes that need financing to buy a new boat are not there.

This is why Donzi has moved to limited production on custom orders.

[Carl C]

A big plus for me was that I bought new from a dealer's stock. This let me negotiate price, trade in and delivery. They brought the boat up from Tennessee to Michigan and took back my Hydrostream for trade in. I don't beleive I paid any cash down. When ordering from the factory how will the price be set? We know no one pays full "manufacturer's suggested retail price". BTW, new Classics are future classics ;). Maybe they need to make a few changes too, like making better use of the "cuddy" area and offering the 525 for those willing to pay for it. I really hope they don't give up on the 18 and 22 Classics!

[Greg Guimond]

Hold price aside for a moment and ask yourself what other new boat would give you the "look" of the Donzi 18C or 22C ?

[mattyboy]

the term "classic" goes hand it hand with production numbers. a classic is well known and has enough market penitration and recognition to endear itself to the public.

coke for soft drinks, harley for bikes,the mustang,corvette,camaro for cars


take each of those examples and now produce 1 or 2 customs a year and see how they maintain their classification of

"classics"

[handfulz28]

you can contact Josh Stickles at DonziDirect.com

they WILL build to order, pretty much anything you want, for a price...

I know for a fact there are some build quotes done, and interested parties out there...

they will not build on spec, or for floor plans, only sold orders


The same thing Craig told me last year right after the Liberty deal closed. Pick your options, sign the form, wire your money. Who haggles price on a brand new, high-end, custom built, direct from manufacturer vehicle or vessel?

[gcarter]

What Matty said is interesting.
A couple of years ago I visited Hinkley in Southwest Harbour, Maine. Of course they have a tremendous custom build reputation probably 80 years old.
And while their Picnic boat is a bit larger, and much different from a Donzi Classic, ya oughta look at thier prices for used boats!
This could be a very good thing for Donzi if Donzi can keep their labor costs under control.

[mattyboy]

marketing story.

Rheingold brewery and beer was a fixture in NY city for most of the century. Auggie Busch comes along and basically destroys all local breweries and BUD becomes americas beer.

in the micro brewery surge of the past few years Rheingold is re introduced in NY City by a local mini/micro brewer on the hopes that the loyal following in the city that loved Rheingold would make it the best selling beer around, it was the same recipe the same taste ,label that everyone knew. only problem was it was 3 times as expensive,it was a low production costly to brew and the margins were to high. bye bye Rheingold

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npjAzCvNxtU

[Just Say N20]

The term "classic" goes hand in hand with production numbers.

A classic is well known and has enough market penetration and recognition to endear itself to the public.

Coke for soft drinks, Harley for bikes, the Mustang, Corvette, Camaro for cars.

Take each of those examples and now produce 1 or 2 customs a year and see how they maintain their classification of "classics."

Very well said.

I'm shocked! That avatar and no mention of the Dodge Challenger? :biggrin:

[Barry Eller]

Very well said.

I'm shocked! That avatar and no mention of the Dodge Challenger? :biggrin:

The Super Bee was not the Challenger...it was Dodge's version of the RoadRunner... all CLASSICS!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Super_Bee

[Cuda]

Dodge had the 383 Road Toad. :)

[Just Say N20]

The Super Bee was not the Challenger...it was Dodge's version of the RoadRunner... all CLASSICS!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Super_Bee

I know that. :yes:

I thought Matty was referencing new versions of the old classic cars. There is no new RoadRunner, but there is a new Challenger.

RoadRunner (Super Bee avatar) is a MOPAR product, and he mentioned Ford and Chevy, but not MOPAR. That's all.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled discussion about the Donzi Classics. :biggrin:

[mattyboy]

wait it's a bee??? not a hornet???

[mattyboy]

there ya go now it's a hornet. I thought being I bought a hornet and it is a boating forum that avatar would get that idea across oh well ;)