Lets release tons of Freon!

[MOP]

The Global Warming guys will love this news!

Hole in ozone layer is now
considered to be helpful


By the University of Leeds news service


The hole in the ozone layer is now steadily closing, but its repair could actually increase warming in the Southern Hemisphere, according to scientists at the British University of Leeds.

The Antarctic ozone hole was once regarded as one of the biggest environmental threats, but the discovery of a previously unknown feedback shows that it has instead helped to shield this region from carbon-induced warming over the past two decades.

High-speed winds in the area beneath the hole have led to the formation of brighter summertime clouds, which reflect more of the sun's powerful rays.

"These clouds have acted like a mirror to the sun's rays, reflecting the sun's heat away from the surface to the extent that warming from rising carbon emissions has effectively been cancelled out in this region during the summertime," said Ken Carslaw of the University of Leeds, who co-authored the research.

"If, as seems likely, these winds die down, rising CO2 emissions could then cause the warming of the Southern Hemisphere to accelerate, which would have an impact on future climate predictions," he added.

The key to this newly-discovered feedback is aerosol — tiny reflective particles suspended within the air that are known by experts to have a huge impact on climate.

Greenhouse gases absorb infrared radiation from the earth and release it back into the atmosphere as heat, causing the planet to warm up over time. Aerosol works against this by reflecting heat from the sun back into space, cooling the planet as it does so.

Beneath the Antarctic ozone hole, high-speed winds whip up large amounts of sea spray, which contains millions of tiny salt particles. This spray then forms droplets and eventually clouds, and the increased spray over the last two decades has made these clouds brighter and more reflective.

As the ozone layer recovers it is believed that this feedback mechanism could decline in effectiveness, or even be reversed, leading to accelerated warming in the southern hemisphere, scientists said.

"Our research highlights the value of today's state-of- the-art models and long-term datasets that enable such unexpected and complex climate feedbacks to be detected and accounted for in our future predictions," added Carslaw.

The Leeds team made their prediction using a state-of-the-art global model of aerosols and two decades of meteorological data. The research was funded by the Natural Environment Research Council's Surface Ocean-Lower Atmosphere Study and the Academy of Finland Centre of Excellence Programme.

[VetteLT193]

Crap, the Ozone will be the new egg. One day it's good for you, next day bad, next day good, next day bad... :nilly:

[fegettes]

So, will we see R-12 for a buck a can again?

I need to fill my little Stingray back up again.

[MOP]

Just shows how little some of these guys that are or have made millions off of crying wolf!

[silverghost]

Are they going to outlaw saltspray now ?
Al Gore & his gang have made hundreds of millions $$$ on this so-called "Global Warming" !
It has become big business.
Bet-selling Books, Lecture tours, Movies, Academy Awards, Nobel Prizes.
All this while flying around in his mostly empty private jet .
His home uses much more energy than most.
What is Al's "carbon footprint"?
Al you have got to walk the walk ~ If your going to talk the talk !
As for me~
I believe the earth goes through natural cycles of warming & ice ages over time.
Volcanic eruptions have had a major impact on climate over time also.
Man too has impacted the climate over time~
M 92 y/o Dad remembers Phladelphia air being very dirty in the winter as a kid because everyone was burning coal for heating. You can still see the coal soot stained facades of old inner-city buildings.
Man has made an impact on climate.
But not anywhere near the impact of mother nature !
Just my opinion.

[gcarter]

If I remember correctly, it's the chlorine in Freon that 's purported to be the problem, but it's still 2.5 times as heavy as air.....I don't understand how it gets up there????:confused:
Since most of the world's volcanos are in the southern hemisphere, we have little to be concerned about. A good eruption can blow millions of tons of stuff into the atmosphere.....a whole lot of really bad stuff!:eek:

[Fluffy Foo-Foo]

it's the chlorine in Freon that 's purported to be the problem, but it's still 2.5 times as heavy as air.....I don't understand how it gets up there????:confused:
Since most of the world's volcanos are in the southern hemisphere, we have little to be concerned about. A good eruption can blow millions of tons of stuff into the atmosphere.....a whole lot of really bad stuff!:eek:


Chlorine with flourine and other stuff (CFC's & HCFC'S).

One nice size volcanic eruption and we could be in for an ice age! Same thing as nuclear winter!:nilly: That would blow the hell out of global warming!

[silverghost]

I am still using Freon R 12 in all my collector cars, truck, etc.
I refuse to swap-out to 134A !

[MOP]

A local out by me has about 30 of the propane tank sized ones, and hordes them only turning one loose now and then only to friends and yes for a decent profit!

[realbold]

LOL!!!! We haven't heard about the infamous ozone hole for a while.
I don't think any of them know what they're talkin about.
Years ago a friend told me the real reason they quit using R12 is the patent ran out so they came up with R134. This may sound like a crock, but it is more believable than the ozone hole, global warming, etc......

[fegettes]

Years ago a friend told me the real reason they quit using R12 is the patent ran out so they came up with R134. This may sound like a crock, but it is more believable than the ozone hole, global warming, etc......

You can run right across the Mexican border and get all you want, and fairly reasonable too.

[Fluffy Foo-Foo]

"Freon" is a Dupont name for some of their refrigerants. R-12 is a type of refrigerant. Like R-22, R-500, etc. People use the name Freon interchangeably with refrigerants kinda like Klennex\tissues and Kotex\tampon!

R-134 is a replacement for R-12, R-410 is a replacement for R-22. The newer refrigerants don't have the ozone depleting properties of the older stuff although I don't think anybody knows for sure!

[gcarter]

Someone is taking it seriously;

Scientists suggest simulated volcanic eruptions could stem global warming

By Michael Sheridan (http://www.nydailynews.com/authors/Michael%20Sheridan)
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
Thursday, January 28th 2010, 12:07 PM

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2010/01/29/alg_volcano_eruption.jpg Fenton/AP
Scientists believe that simulating the effects of a volcanic eruption could help cool the planet, halting global warming.

A group of scientists have a plan to save the planet - volcanoes!
Simulated volcanoes, to be precise.
The idea, detailed by a trio of environmental scientists in an editorial for the journal, Nature, would potentially be cheaper than forcing industries to cut carbon emissions.
"Many scientists have argued against research on solar radiation management," write David Keith (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/David+Keith) of the University of Calgary (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/University+of+Calgary) in Canada (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Canada), Edward Parson (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Edward+Parson) of the University of Michigan (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/University+of+Michigan) and Granger Morgan (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Granger+Morgan) of Carnegie Mellon University (http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Carnegie+Mellon+University).
The concern, they say, is that such efforts would damage what political will there is to decrease the production of greenhouse gases.
"We think that the risks of not doing research outweigh the risks of doing it," they write.
The concept behind the proposal suggests that if scientists could replicate the particles launched into the atmosphere during volcanic eruptions - which have been shown to impact the global temperature by blocking the sun's rays - humans could simulate that effect in a controlled fashion to stem the increasing temperature of the planet.
This would extend the amount of time it would take industries worldwide to lower their carbon emissions, thus potentially saving millions of dollars – as well as the planet.
"Opinions about solar radiation management are changing rapidly," the threesome write. "Only a few years ago, many scientists opposed open discussion of the topic. Many now support model-based research, but field testing of the sort we advocate here is contentious and will probably grow more so."
The trio also suggests that small nations, ones without deep pockets, could easily take up the research and even implement it - with or without the consent of the rest of the planet's governments.
"In this case, one nation – which need not be a large and rich industrialized country – could seize the initiative on global climate, making it extremely difficult for other powers to restrain it," they write.
The suggested cost of such an effort? About $10 million to start, they say, increasing to about $1 billion by the year 2020.


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2010/01/28/2010-01-28_scientists_suggest_simulated_volcanic_eruptions _could_stem_global_warming.html#ixzz0dwiwx6o7 (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2010/01/28/2010-01-28_scientists_suggest_simulated_volcanic_eruptions _could_stem_global_warming.html#ixzz0dwiwx6o7)

[MOP]

This could be just plain BS!!!!

Though I think the fellow how worked in a scientific job was telling maybe at least a half truth, he said like what was mentioned above that freon even dispersed in high winds is to heavy to rise up and affect the Ozone layer. He said that he had heard that 3M's patents was running out they stood to loose billions being the worlds supplier. So with help of the lobbyists the Ozone tail was fabricated, seeing what happens with the hill and big business I would not put it past them.

[Walt. H.]

Everyone in the automotive trade will tell ya that the R12 system performs better then R134 and thats the chilling truth..

Besides the hole in the Ozone layer are located where no one lives, and that would be the north & south pole Doh!s. :bonk:
Of course some the folks don't realize that maybe those holes are suppose to be there so that the earth can vent its waste out of the atmosphere, for example do we want to recycle volcanic gases or let it go into outer space?
When just one volcano is far more poisonous to the atmosphere then if everyone in this country went out and cut their freon hoses in their cars and homes at the exact same time when the major concern was freon 12 leaking out due to a auto accidents and the system being dismantled junkyard style at lifes end..

[silverghost]

See ~
And you guys thought I was nuts when I mentioned Volcanos as a natural cure for "Global Warming "!
Great Minds think alike ! ;)

Mr. Spock and the Vulcans had the right idea all along!

3M did not make or own the Freon pat.
DuPont does.
Better living with toxic chemicals !

[MOP]

I emailed him he said I was off with 3M but directed me to this web page!

http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/environment/ozonefreon_fraud.htm

[LKSD]

Everyone in the automotive trade will tell ya that the R12 system performs better then R134 and thats the chilling truth..
Besides the hole in the Ozone layer are located where no one lives, and that would be the north & south pole Doh!s. :bonk:
Of course some the folks don't realize that maybe those holes are suppose to be there so that the earth can vent its waste out of the atmosphere, for example do we want to recycle volcanic gases or let it go into outer space?
When just one volcano is far more poisonous to the atmosphere then if everyone in this country went out and cut their freon hoses in their cars and homes at the exact same time when the major concern was freon 12 leaking out due to a auto accidents and the system being dismantled junkyard style at lifes end..

Good point... ;) J