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VetteLT193
01-07-2010, 08:48 AM
I have a 2005 Navigator with the 3V 5.4 and ZF 6 speed transmission.

For some time now when I floor it I get a period of RPM under full load where it seems like a misfire (around 3000 RPM). it clears up in higher RPM's. Check engine light does not come on unless the problem happens during Full throttle then sometimes it goes into the flashing check light /limp home mode for about 30 seconds... then it shuts off, back to normal.

I managed to read that code by forcing it, it said something about Cyl A? misfire. (cant remember off hand, and it seemed odd when I got it) during normal driving it has been all good... until now.

When going uphill I'm getting a lug/clunk. Basically when going 45 in 6th gear uphill I'm getting an extreme hesitation. I don't think it is transmission related but it is strong enough to feel that way. If i manually kick it out of 6th and over to 4th (I have no option to go to 5th gear), all is fine. It also does it about 70 MPH uphill. Again, no check engine lights. Now that this has started, my MPG is in the crapper.

What should I check? I did the fuel filter in 2009, so that should be good.

I am thinking I have a failing coil pack, but how do I test?

Also... the timing is all over the place. The last engine I really tapped into is the Chevy LT1 and the timing was pretty slow and steady to change. This engine it goes all over the place very quickly. I captured a data log of a high speed run if anyone is interested...

Cuda
01-07-2010, 09:57 AM
I have a 99 5.4 with the exact same symptoms. It seems to run better when I put a bottle of injector cleaner in it, but I can still feel it miss slightly. There is nothing on the codes. It doesn't miss at idle, or I'd start pulling wires until I found which one it is.

BlownCrewCab
01-07-2010, 10:14 AM
The lug and clunk at 45mph in 6th gear is from the torque converter locked up and it's probably jerking the engine around, when it's not locked up it's not direct coupled and able to slip so the motor doesn't move as much.
The timing being scattered is probably related to your misfire problem, when the ecu notices Knock or misfire it pulls timing then adds it back until it sees knock or misfire again, the motor allways wants to run the most timing it can and these criteria are what tell it "okay, thats all the advance you get, now pull some and try to put it back" this all happens a few times a second. a burnt plug wire or failing coilpack can fool it also..

VetteLT193
01-07-2010, 10:24 AM
The lug and clunk at 45mph in 6th gear is from the torque converter locked up and it's probably jerking the engine around, when it's not locked up it's not direct coupled and able to slip so the motor doesn't move as much.
The timing being scattered is probably related to your misfire problem, when the ecu notices Knock or misfire it pulls timing then adds it back until it sees knock or misfire again, the motor allways wants to run the most timing it can and these criteria are what tell it "okay, thats all the advance you get, now pull some and try to put it back" this all happens a few times a second. a burnt plug wire or failing coilpack can fool it also..


can you tell me more about the torque converter? This is a new issue, never did it before the last few weeks. Driving me nuts.

is there a test for coilpacks? Seeing that it's not consistent pulling one off at a time I'm not sure will do the trick for testing.

BlownCrewCab
01-07-2010, 10:51 AM
Unlike torque converters from the early days, todays TC actually "Lock up" Meaning that the crankshaft side and transmission side are locked together, this usually only happens in overdrive. The MAP Sensor & TPS Sensor are usually what tell the TC what state to be in. The MAP sensor would notice you going up a hill and the load getting greater on the motor even if you didn't move the gas pedal. if the MAP is working right it would notice the change in engine load and tell the trans to unlock and downshift (now you probably have to goose the pedal a little to get it to downshift) when the TC is locked it can rock the motor back and forth on the mounts causing a clunk. The MAP sensor could be a good place to start, I don't think they cost much..
Make any sense?

(incase you didn't know)

MAP is Manifold absolute pressure (like a vacuum gauge)
TPS is throttle position sensor

VetteLT193
01-07-2010, 10:52 AM
I did some more reading and I found a post on f150online that has my symptoms.

the causes can be:

coils / plugs if we're getting towards 80k. I have 66k and use it to tow so I'll call that close enough.

Another was the Torque converter... After a re-tune the TC has to 're-learn' what is going on based on the power/weight. Well, I just re-tuned, so that throws a monkey wrench into things. Seems odd as heck to me, but who knows.

I can get a set of 8 coils for under $150 I might just change them but hate to if there is a test I can run.

Cuda
01-07-2010, 11:17 AM
I can feel my torque converter lock up. It's like it hit's 4th gear (3 speed). It drops the rpm to where it will miss. Stepping on the gas always cures it. I'm not sure if it's the injectors, or the COP.

Cuda
01-07-2010, 11:26 AM
I have 265,000. :)

Cuda
01-07-2010, 11:27 AM
I did some more reading and I found a post on f150online that has my symptoms.
the causes can be:
coils / plugs if we're getting towards 80k. I have 66k and use it to tow so I'll call that close enough.
Another was the Torque converter... After a re-tune the TC has to 're-learn' what is going on based on the power/weight. Well, I just re-tuned, so that throws a monkey wrench into things. Seems odd as heck to me, but who knows.
I can get a set of 8 coils for under $150 I might just change them but hate to if there is a test I can run.

Buizzilla change out a set of plugs that had 90,000+ and said the plugs were less than .001 out of the original spec.

mrfixxall
01-07-2010, 12:00 PM
Do you have access at a scanner with a cylinder balance test? The reason why your check engine light is flashing is because you probably have a service code in the code history of your ecm and its letting you know it by flashing the light..if you have a code for cylinder 1 misfire pull the coil pack and look for white trace marks on the side of the boot, to check them you will need a ohm meter and ohm them out when their cold, values change when they get hot..if you can get a scanner go to engine data and scroll down to engine misfire, you will see on the screen cyl 1 through 8 now go on a teat drive and monitor the misfire data and see which cylinder is misfiring..

Once you determine which cylinder it is pull that coil pack and check for what stated above..theirs been occasions i seen a broken exhaust valve springs that caused what your describing but mostly on the 4.6 models..
the scanner i mostly use is my tech2 or my otc genisis.my snapon one sit mostly wasted money spent!

VetteLT193
01-07-2010, 12:11 PM
Do you have access at a scanner with a cylinder balance test? The reason why your check engine light is flashing is because you probably have a service code in the code history of your ecm and its letting you know it by flashing the light..if you have a code for cylinder 1 misfire pull the coil pack and look for white trace marks on the side of the boot, to check them you will need a ohm meter and ohm them out when their cold, values change when they get hot..if you can get a scanner go to engine data and scroll down to engine misfire, you will see on the screen cyl 1 through 8 now go on a teat drive and monitor the misfire data and see which cylinder is misfiring..

Once you determine which cylinder it is pull that coil pack and check for what stated above..theirs been occasions i seen a broken exhaust valve springs that caused what your describing but mostly on the 4.6 models..
the scanner i mostly use is my tech2 or my otc genisis.my snapon one sit mostly wasted money spent!

I'll see what I can get data on with my scanner. I checked TPS, MAP, and Timing so far. TPS and MAP look good. Timing seemed odd it was moving around so much but could be just the nature of the newer engine.

I'll do the ohm test, hopefully tonight.

The light only flashes for 30 seconds, maybe less, and as soon as it goes off it runs like normal again.

BlownCrewCab
01-07-2010, 12:15 PM
Buizzilla change out a set of plugs that had 90,000+ and said the plugs were less than .001 out of the original spec.


I just changed out my 85,000 mile stock Platinum Plugs (40,000 of that is with the blower) and they look like they have 1,000 miles on them, their beautiful. with todays fuel injection technology plugs should last 100k at least.

BUIZILLA
01-07-2010, 12:36 PM
Buizzilla change out a set of plugs that had 90,000+ and said the plugs were less than .001 out of the original spec.
I think I said the gap was OVER .100.... they were horrible, and the truck still ran great

Cuda
01-07-2010, 01:27 PM
I think I said the gap was OVER .100.... they were horrible, and the truck still ran great
It could have been. I was going by memory. I pulled the plugs out of an Explorer Sport Trac, and the plug had a huge gap. It still ran well though. 158,000 miles.

gear head
01-07-2010, 01:54 PM
change the plugs and the coil boots and your problem should be solved

Cuda
01-07-2010, 02:12 PM
change the plugs and the coil boots and your problem should be solved
Easier said than done.
I've read where some 5.4's, the threads in the heads come out with the plugs.

VetteLT193
01-07-2010, 02:14 PM
Easier said than done.
I've read where some 5.4's, the threads in the heads come out with the plugs.


Yeah, that's your 5.4 issue (4V). On mine (3V) the spark plug comes apart and stays in the head. :bonk:

mrfixxall
01-07-2010, 02:26 PM
Yeah, that's your 5.4 issue (4V). On mine (3V) the spark plug comes apart and stays in the head. :bonk:

the newer plugs have nickel in them,they come out easy! Ford corrected that problem, i usually pull all the coil packs and spray pb blaster in the holes on the older fords..If they faal tight coming out stop and spray more pb in the hole..once remover turn the engine over to blow the pb out of the holes followed by brake cleaner to dry them up..

motorcity
01-07-2010, 04:23 PM
Be careful if you attaempt to change the plugs. The 5.4l 3v's, have plugs that will seperate and leave the lower shell stuck in the cyl head. You will nned a special tool to get the shell out of the head , if this happens. And don't put Motorcraft plugs back in. Champion makes a one piece plug that will not seperate. I'm not a big fann of Champions, but its better than the 2 piece desingned Motorcrafts. I 've have them in my F250, with 20,000 miles and have had no problems so far. You also need to put Hight temp (stainless) Anti-seize on the lowwr shell, be carefull not to get it on the electrode of the plug. I also ran Marvel Mystry oil in my gas a month prior to me changing thhem, in every tank and mine came out very easy. Some people on another forum have done this also and have had the same results. Below is a link to another posting on here with some more info. It does sound like you have a bad COP, though. Also Some Fords have a slip joint on the driveshafts, and they are famous for clunks, due to lack of lube.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=57158

CHACHI
01-07-2010, 06:33 PM
As a follow up from "continuous research"on this issue, I was told that

"sometime" in '08 Ford changed the head design and plug design on the

5.4 engines.

After having the local Ford parts guy look up my VIN, I am a lucky guy.

My motor was built after the design change. Whew.

I am still going to pull the plugs this summer and never seize them.

I will err on the side of preventiive maintenence.

Ken

Phil S
01-09-2010, 07:22 AM
My cousin's expedition (2001 or 2002, not sure) with over 200k miles on it has been having a terrible miss. Her mechanic was changing plugs & coil packs as that apparently was what the error codes were sending. She finally took it somewhere else when the problem came back, and they changed the intake manifold gasket and the miss, so far, is gone. The mechanic said that the 5.4's were pretty well known for failing manifold gaskets (?)

(I did try the injector cleaner & techron fuel idea....especially after she told me she runs "Ingle's" gas in it (a grocery-store chain).

Cuda
01-09-2010, 11:13 AM
Mine is running good today. I've got a bottle of STP concentrated injector cleaner in it.

mrfixxall
01-09-2010, 01:43 PM
My cousin's expedition (2001 or 2002, not sure) with over 200k miles on it has been having a terrible miss. Her mechanic was changing plugs & coil packs as that apparently was what the error codes were sending. She finally took it somewhere else when the problem came back, and they changed the intake manifold gasket and the miss, so far, is gone. The mechanic said that the 5.4's were pretty well known for failing manifold gaskets (?)

(I did try the injector cleaner & techron fuel idea....especially after she told me she runs "Ingle's" gas in it (a grocery-store chain).

This is true on the high milage fords,i have done many many of them and thats only if you have a cylinder misfire followed by bank 1 or 2 lein system code.. This mostly also happens with the newer style plastic upper intake, if any of you ever have to change thease gaskets make sure you request the tech to do the lower as well..you will pay a little extra to do it but its worth the money in the long run and couls save you a ton of headaches..

VetteLT193
01-13-2010, 08:20 AM
I finally ordered new coil packs. Will update after they are installed. I'm still scared of the plugs... although, the dealer might have changed them when the did the cam bearings so I have to go through my documentation.

motorcity
01-13-2010, 08:00 PM
I'm still scared of the plugs... although, the dealer might have changed them when the did the cam bearings so I have to go through my documentation.


Do the marvel Mystry oil in the gas, for a month prior. They'll come out easily.

VetteLT193
01-14-2010, 07:14 AM
Do the marvel Mystry oil in the gas, for a month prior. They'll come out easily.

Ok... I'll go for it then. I have a gallon Jug of MM already in my garage.

did you add it at the rate on the bottle, or double? I seem to remember to put in a double dose of whatever is suggested on the bottle?

motorcity
01-14-2010, 08:59 AM
I was adding 6 to 8 oz per 10 gallons. I did this on every tank for a month prior. Also, consider using Champion plugs. They make a plug with the lower portion welded together, instead of the crimp on the Motorcraft's. I'm not a big fan of Champions, put I would rather have plugs that come out easily. I put almost 20,00 on a set with no problems. You also need some stainless anti seize to coat the lower shell area, on the new plugs. This will help the next time the need to be changed. And the TSB for this says to do it on a cold engine. You also need a 9/16 spark plug socket.

VetteLT193
01-14-2010, 09:14 AM
I was adding 6 to 8 oz per 10 gallons. I did this on every tank for a month prior. Also, consider using Champion plugs. They make a plug with the lower portion welded together, instead of the crimp on the Motorcraft's. I'm not a big fan of Champions, put I would rather have plugs that come out easily. I put almost 20,00 on a set with no problems. You also need some stainless anti seize to coat the lower shell area, on the new plugs. This will help the next time the need to be changed. And the TSB for this says to do it on a cold engine. You also need a 9/16 spark plug socket.

Thanks... adding the MM tonight :)

VetteLT193
01-14-2010, 09:35 AM
also... above you say to use stainless anti-seize. Where do I get that? normal copper stuff is not good?

motorcity
01-14-2010, 03:29 PM
You have to use stainless anti seize. Normal anti seize will not survive in a cumbustion chamber. Stainless fueses on the metal in a high heat enviroment. Loctite and permitex make it. You should be able to buy it a a Machine Shop supply house. Be careful not to get it on the electrodes of the plug, it will damage the plug and you'll get a mis-fire. Just a light coating on the upper sides od the shell area.

Cuda
01-14-2010, 06:04 PM
You have to use stainless anti seize. Normal anti seize will not survive in a cumbustion chamber. Stainless fueses on the metal in a high heat enviroment. Loctite and permitex make it. You should be able to buy it a a Machine Shop supply house. Be careful not to get it on the electrodes of the plug, it will damage the plug and you'll get a mis-fire. Just a light coating on the upper sides od the shell area.
Which number of Permetex, No.2?

motorcity
01-15-2010, 07:57 PM
Sorry, I mis-spoke, its Nickel High Temp Anti-seize, like in the link below
http://www.amazon.com/Loctite-77124-Nickel-Anti-Seize-Brush/dp/B0017TX0XW

fortunately, a friend of mine works for Loctite so I can get samples free.

motorcity
01-20-2010, 12:35 PM
VETTELT193, just as a FYI, their are a couple of removal tools out there, if you do break a plug in the head. Ford Rotunda has a tool, but its over $200, and lislie tool, that make alot of aftermarket service tools has one. Lislie's tool is around $69 (part #65600) and from what I have read, works very good.

VetteLT193
01-20-2010, 02:11 PM
VETTELT193, just as a FYI, their are a couple of removal tools out there, if you do break a plug in the head. Ford Rotunda has a tool, but its over $200, and lislie tool, that make alot of aftermarket service tools has one. Lislie's tool is around $69 (part #65600) and from what I have read, works very good.

The COP's just came in yesterday. I had good intentions of installing them last night but I was burned out and am coughing my head off... Maybe tonight. we'll see.

I found another removal tool for pretty cheap, $20? if memory serves, I wonder if there is a whole lot of difference. My biggest fear are the rear most cylinders... they are under the dash a bit without full hood exposure.

motorcity
01-20-2010, 03:29 PM
I have a 4x4 F250, I laid some towel on the engine, and had to lay on them to pull the rear ones. But lukley they aren't to bad to get out. I know on the F150's some electrical componets have to be moved to get the back ones out. I don't know if I woould want to take them on not feeling good. I use to be a dealership tech and I had alot of anxiety about doing them. You may hear smoe screaching as you turn them out. Mine broke loos and I hand spun them out.

motorcity
01-29-2010, 08:48 PM
Vette,

Just curious, did you have good luck with the plugs?

Cuda
01-30-2010, 06:49 AM
If they are that tight, I'd take a pull in the tightening direction before I twisted one of them off. I just can't see all eight of the coils going bad at the same time.

mrfixxall
01-30-2010, 10:01 AM
ive done alot of then and now i have mastered the task! Vette, have patients doing them..yes you have to move some stuff out of the way but all in all their not so bad..just make sure you use a locking extension when you put them in,somtimes the sparkplug socket will stay on the plug and it could be a pain in the axx getting the socket off the plug..

fixx

gcarter
01-30-2010, 10:10 AM
When I did mine, I found a thinner wall socket (not a spark plug socket) to do most of the work with and it was much easier to move in the wells.
Once they were completely unscrewed, I used the plug socket to grab the plugs to pull them out. The fit of my plug socket was pretty close to an interference fit and didn't allow for a lot of movement in the wells.
I know they make specific spark plug sockets to do this job.

VetteLT193
02-01-2010, 02:11 PM
I haven't done them yet. We just got back from taking the kids to see that Mouse that lives in Orlando. Been driving the Town Car instead of the Navigator. Actually been enjoying it because it gets 25 MPG going 80 MPH with a full trunk and full back seat :bonk: Just about 160k miles and it still runs nearly like new... meanwhile the new technology of the 5.4 burns a quart of oil every 1000-1500 miles and gets terrible MPG. :bonk:


So... this week hopefully. It's parked in the garage ready to rock. I did a quickie swap of the # cyl COP about a week and a half ago and it runs better. I think I have a 2nd COP that is bad. So I'll do the rest of them and the plugs hopefully, maybe, probably.... this week.

mrfixxall
02-01-2010, 03:16 PM
I haven't done them yet. We just got back from taking the kids to see that Mouse that lives in Orlando. Been driving the Town Car instead of the Navigator. Actually been enjoying it because it gets 25 MPG going 80 MPH with a full trunk and full back seat :bonk: Just about 160k miles and it still runs nearly like new... meanwhile the new technology of the 5.4 burns a quart of oil every 1000-1500 miles and gets terrible MPG. :bonk:


So... this week hopefully. It's parked in the garage ready to rock. I did a quickie swap of the # cyl COP about a week and a half ago and it runs better. I think I have a 2nd COP that is bad. So I'll do the rest of them and the plugs hopefully, maybe, probably.... this week.


DO NOT! use bosch plugs,,use oe plugs...motorcraft or autolite...

Cuda
02-01-2010, 05:49 PM
My new tech 5.4 has 268,000 miles on it, and still doesn't burn any oil.

Cuda
02-01-2010, 05:53 PM
My neice was at the Mouse House yesterday. She said they made a fortune off her having to buy blankets and sweaters. It was supposed to be 65, and it was 55 and windy. It was 48 and windy here yesterday at 1 pm.

CHACHI
02-01-2010, 06:34 PM
Vette, in the oil burner, if you are using 5w20 change to 15w40 or 20w50.

The heavier base stock is less volitile than the base stock in a 5w oil.

Ken

mrfixxall
02-01-2010, 06:39 PM
Vette, in the oil burner, if you are using 5w20 change to 15w40 or 20w50.

The heavier base stock is less volitile than the base stock in a 5w oil.

Ken

Ken that oil would be to hard on the oil pump drive in that engine,it was designed to run on 5w20 so vette run it with their reccomended oil..

vette, time for a new yukkon xl :) the new ones have 402 hp,that autta pull the zx @ 80 :)

motorcity
02-01-2010, 06:44 PM
DO NOT! use bosch plugs,,use oe plugs...motorcraft or autolite...

Champion makes a good replacement plug for these 5.4lL 3v engines. Instead of the crimped lower shell, like on the Motorcrafts the Champions have a welded lower section. I'm not a big fan of Champions but I put them in and have almost 20,00 on mine and have had no issues. And quite a few other people have gone with the Champions. It will make changing the plug next time a whole lot easier.

CHACHI
02-01-2010, 07:05 PM
Mike, I ran 20w50 in a Mountaineer that Mercury said I couldn't for over 150K and had no issues whatsover.

Run 10w something, just get rid of the 5w side of the viscosity.

I am currently running 10w40 in my '08 5.4, but I am in CT, not FLA.

Ken

mrfixxall
02-01-2010, 08:07 PM
Mike, I ran 20w50 in a Mountaineer that Mercury said I couldn't for over 150K and had no issues whatsover.

Run 10w something, just get rid of the 5w side of the viscosity.

I am currently running 10w40 in my '08 5.4, but I am in CT, not FLA.

Ken


no offence! i just stated that because he only has 54000? miles on it,if it were older then i would probably go with a thicker oil..i just like to use what the mfr recommended for warranty purposes,that way i don't get blamed for a defective engine..you know mike told me a thicker oil would be better then boom!

motorcity
02-01-2010, 08:35 PM
Mike, I ran 20w50 in a Mountaineer that Mercury said I couldn't for over 150K and had no issues whatsover.

Run 10w something, just get rid of the 5w side of the viscosity.

I am currently running 10w40 in my '08 5.4, but I am in CT, not FLA.

Ken


From what I have read running heavier oil, other than the specified 5w-20 in the 5.4L, could cause drivability issues with the cam phazers. Its like the Chrysler hemis with the MDS system. They don't like any other weight oil other than the 5w-20 specified for this motor.
Its getting to be that alot of the newr powertrain internals are getting high tech with varialbe timing and disabling of cylinders, and are designed with specific weight oils, to function properly. The days of oil oil weights not be that important are going away. Its like this with alot of the newr automatic transmissions also. My 05 F250 usees a special trans fluid that is a dealer only item. and people have tried fluids that say they are compatible with bad results. theiris getting to be abunch of OEM specific transmisssin fuild out there.

All in the quest for high fuel mileage

Cuda
02-01-2010, 09:42 PM
Ken that oil would be to hard on the oil pump drive in that engine,it was designed to run on 5w20 so vette run it with their reccomended oil..

vette, time for a new yukkon xl :) the new ones have 402 hp,that autta pull the zx @ 80 :)
I don't think running a heavier oil in it would hurt the oil pump drive whatsoever. I had some left over diesel oil, that I think was 15/40, and I haven't suffered any oil pump problems. I ran that same oil in all the boats I had. The only difference between gas engine oil, and diesel engine oil is that the diesel oil will have a better detergent.

CHACHI
02-02-2010, 05:13 AM
Fixx no offense taken.

But when the dust settles an oil pump is under a lot more stress trying to pump a 5w20 at -35 F (oil temp) than trying to pump a 20w50 at +25 F (oil temp).
After all, one of the benifits of a 5w oil is cold weather startability besides low fluid drag for fuel milage. Detroit likes the fuel milage benefit. Remember C.A.F.E.?

I would never use a 20w50 at -35, the oil would never flow and I would hope there would be so much fluid drag, the engine couldn't spin fast enough to start.

Personally, I wouldn't run a 5w20 in anything. I just don't like the idea of a 20 weight protecting vital engine parts at operating temps towing a trailer in August. A 5w40, now thats a whole different conversation.

Ken

Cuda
02-02-2010, 07:03 AM
I would never be caught driving anythng at -35. Those temps aren't fit for human consumption.

VetteLT193
02-02-2010, 07:18 AM
I read a bunch about the oil and everything said to stick with 5-20. I had the dealer check the oil burn and it is within spec. They said they all do it now. Don't forget this is the newer version of the 5.4 with 3 valves instead of 4. Dealer spec is 1 qt. per 1000 miles.

I was going to pick plugs up from NAPA after work today. Now I don't know what to get.

Cuda
02-02-2010, 09:01 AM
I read a bunch about the oil and everything said to stick with 5-20. I had the dealer check the oil burn and it is within spec. They said they all do it now. Don't forget this is the newer version of the 5.4 with 3 valves instead of 4. Dealer spec is 1 qt. per 1000 miles.
I was going to pick plugs up from NAPA after work today. Now I don't know what to get.
There is no way I would accept that as an answer. The tolerances are so much closer than when I first started twisting wrenches. If I had a car that burned a quart per thousand miles, I'd be pulling it apart for a new set of rings. No way in the world they would design an engine to burn a quart per thousand miles.

mrfixxall
02-02-2010, 09:59 AM
I read a bunch about the oil and everything said to stick with 5-20. I had the dealer check the oil burn and it is within spec. They said they all do it now. Don't forget this is the newer version of the 5.4 with 3 valves instead of 4. Dealer spec is 1 qt. per 1000 miles.

I was going to pick plugs up from NAPA after work today. Now I don't know what to get.


champion plugs are known to be a few degrees colder,maybe in your weather you might benefit from it..up here in the Midwest we count on a little hotter plug so we can start our cars in the winter months,,you can put what you want in their but i like to stick with oe equipment..weather it being a audi i use their factory plugs to vw's spark plugs ( same engines)..

Walt. H.
02-02-2010, 10:02 AM
I've been running 10w30 in my 06' 1500 quad cab 4X4 Dodge hemi with the MDS system since I bought it used with 16,100. mile in March of this year, and I currently just turned 30,000.
I don't have any system lag or any other i'll effects with how the MDS operates as Chrysler warns if you don't use 5w20 motor oil, and my fuel mileage was slightly above average in comparision to what most other Dodge trucks get and it still is while using the slightly heavier oil.
I get a realistic 18.3 to 18.8 around town and high 19 to a hair into the 20 mpg range running 68 - 73 mph highway with 3:92 gears.
I did have to replace one oxygen sensor early this January but i'm sure it wasn't due to the the viscosity of engine oil I use.
I rather give myself a little more potential engine life then give the Govt, their required C.A.F.E standards that were imposed on the auto manufactures, especially when i've been keeping my daily drive vehicles an average of ten yr's give or take a year depending if the sheet metal starts to rust thru..
WH

VetteLT193
02-02-2010, 10:16 AM
There is no way I would accept that as an answer. The tolerances are so much closer than when I first started twisting wrenches. If I had a car that burned a quart per thousand miles, I'd be pulling it apart for a new set of rings. No way in the world they would design an engine to burn a quart per thousand miles.

The last was 2 qts over 4000 miles. It varies some but I have no clue why it varies. There is no smoke or anything else.


I might bump the weight up if others are doing it successfully. I just changed the oil a couple weeks ago so it will be warmer on the next change anyway.

motorcity
02-02-2010, 10:41 AM
champion plugs are known to be a few degrees colder,maybe in your weather you might benefit from it..up here in the Midwest we count on a little hotter plug so we can start our cars in the winter months.


I'm in Michigan and hav had no starting prolems with the Champions, and its been darn cold here lately. With the Champions in the 5.4L 3V, its a matter of serviceability, in the future.

CHACHI
02-03-2010, 06:59 AM
The last was 2 qts over 4000 miles. It varies some but I have no clue why it varies. There is no smoke or anything else.


I might bump the weight up if others are doing it successfully. I just changed the oil a couple weeks ago so it will be warmer on the next change anyway.
vette, if you have to add oil before the next oil change, add 20w50.

Ken

Cuda
02-03-2010, 08:05 AM
The last was 2 qts over 4000 miles. It varies some but I have no clue why it varies. There is no smoke or anything else.
I might bump the weight up if others are doing it successfully. I just changed the oil a couple weeks ago so it will be warmer on the next change anyway.
Like I said, there is no way Ford would think burning that much oil would be acceptable. Unless you see it leaking in your driveway, you can bet it is burning it. Oil doesn't just evaporate.

zelatore
02-03-2010, 10:53 AM
I get a realistic 18.3 to 18.8 around town and high 19 to a hair into the 20 mpg range running 68 - 73 mph highway with 3:92 gears.

Wait a minute....

I've got almost the same truck, but without the MDS and a 2wd instead of 4wd. I also have 4.10 gears but 22" wheels that partially offset that.

On the highway, running 75-80, I get about 17 mph. So I can buy that you'd be able to get 20 despite the 4wd due to the MDS and the lower speeds.

But in town I get crap - maybe 13-14. I'm not flat-footing it away from every stop light, but I'm not babying it either.

Now how do you explain that? If anything, my shorter gearing should help me here, and your MDS wouldn't come into play since it's a full engine load during acceleration anyway. And your 4wd weight penalty would also be a negative.

What am I missing?

(sorry for the hijack, this just struck me as odd)

VetteLT193
02-07-2010, 01:48 PM
Well, I'm finally into his...

How hard should the initial crack of the plugs be?

I put quite a bit of torque onto the first plug (#5) and it isn't budging so far.

I put PB blaster down every plug hole and let it soak. Been in there for only an hour or so though so far.......

I also have been running the MM oil in the gas.

If I need to I'll throw the new COPs on and run it longer with MM oil and go back later to do the plugs but I am so darn close to just doing the whole job I'd rather get it done now.

Conquistador_del_mar
02-07-2010, 02:01 PM
Wait a minute....

I've got almost the same truck, but without the MDS and a 2wd instead of 4wd. I also have 4.10 gears but 22" wheels that partially offset that.

On the highway, running 75-80, I get about 17 mph. So I can buy that you'd be able to get 20 despite the 4wd due to the MDS and the lower speeds.

But in town I get crap - maybe 13-14. I'm not flat-footing it away from every stop light, but I'm not babying it either.

Now how do you explain that? If anything, my shorter gearing should help me here, and your MDS wouldn't come into play since it's a full engine load during acceleration anyway. And your 4wd weight penalty would also be a negative.

What am I missing?

(sorry for the hijack, this just struck me as odd)

Yep, I've never had a truck or car that only got a 1MPG difference between city and highway - more like 3 or 4MPG spread. Even my 1ton dually with a 454 goes from 10 in the city to 12 on the highway. My Tundra gets 14.5 in the summer around town and 17.5 on the highway. I just realized that both my trucks get 20% better mileage on the highway. Using that same percentage, even my old Chevy 1/2 ton truck came to the same 20% spread (15/18). Bill

Cuda
02-07-2010, 02:04 PM
My 5.4 Ford gets considerable better mileage on the highway.

Btw, I found it misses more when it's wet outside. Didn't miss a lick today.

mrfixxall
02-07-2010, 02:10 PM
My ole sub with a fi tbi 454 gets 9mpg around and 14 mpg on the highway.. my yukon xl 2500 with a 8.1 got 12mpg around town and 16 mpg on the highway...my beemer gets 16 around town and 25 on the highway at any speed:bonk: fo figure.....

VetteLT193
02-07-2010, 02:14 PM
Well, I'm finally into his...
How hard should the initial crack of the plugs be?
I put quite a bit of torque onto the first plug (#5) and it isn't budging so far.
I put PB blaster down every plug hole and let it soak. Been in there for only an hour or so though so far.......
I also have been running the MM oil in the gas.
If I need to I'll throw the new COPs on and run it longer with MM oil and go back later to do the plugs but I am so darn close to just doing the whole job I'd rather get it done now.


we got slightly off target so just in case you guys missed the post above...

Conquistador_del_mar
02-07-2010, 02:21 PM
My 5.4 Ford gets considerable better mileage on the highway.

Btw, I found it misses more when it's wet outside. Didn't miss a lick today.

I ran into a young guy last night who had a 5.4 Ford truck. I asked him if he has had any trouble with the packs. He laughed and said yes. His father runs a mechanic shop and replaces the packs all the time - mostly after someone washes their engine. He specifically said that those engines don't like moisture. Bill

mrfixxall
02-07-2010, 02:40 PM
we got slightly off target so just in case you guys missed the post above...

Trade it in on a suburban :biggrin.:

Is rhe engine warm or cold? just give it a quick tug,ive had some hard ones in the past,it will come loose..

VetteLT193
02-07-2010, 02:43 PM
Trade it in on a suburban :biggrin.:

Is rhe engine warm or cold? just give it a quick tug,ive had some hard ones in the past,it will come loose..

I'm about ready to trade it in. They couldn't have made this any harder. I just LOVE the pipe in the back that makes getting to #4 impossible. I lost parts of my hand back there just getting the COP unplugged.

mrfixxall
02-07-2010, 03:59 PM
I'm about ready to trade it in. They couldn't have made this any harder. I just LOVE the pipe in the back that makes getting to #4 impossible. I lost parts of my hand back there just getting the COP unplugged.

Be glad its not a 6.0 diesel and your not changing the last 2 glo plugs on the passenger side,,you have to remove the cab of the truck from the chassie to do those 2....

Ford's Better Idea's...

Cuda
02-07-2010, 06:51 PM
we got slightly off target so just in case you guys missed the post above...
You still didn't say, did you getterdun?

motorcity
02-07-2010, 07:28 PM
Fords TSB, says to do it on a cold engine. Mine wern't to bad to break loose, after that I was able to hand spin them out. The TSB also said to break loos the plugs 1/8 turn and soak with a Ford part number carb cleaner. It is suppose to soak down thru the treads. I did that but I didn't see it go down the treads on mine. It is also a good idea to put a dab of Dielctric grease inside the boot of the cop, before installing it. If you can't break them loose, you may want to drive a little more with the MMO. I did it for a month prior. Some people said the plugs screetch the whole way out.

VetteLT193
02-07-2010, 07:42 PM
You still didn't say, did you getterdun?

nope. they were tighter than flaming shiatballs. I applied some serious force to #1 and #5 and they didn't break free. those are the easy ones, the hard ones I would be totally screwed on if I have to apply more force than I did already.

Cold... it was not only a cold engine (sitting for days) but butt cold here today.

I put the COPs on and it seemed worse than ever. I am lost now. It could be the plugs but I just don't know...

motorcity
02-07-2010, 07:59 PM
I put the COPs on and it seemed worse than ever. I am lost now. It could be the plugs but I just don't know...

Did you clean out the hole you put the PB Blaster in? or could you have put a wrong connector on the wrong COP? From what I recall this could be done, theirs enough slack in the wiring.

I feel for you, these plugs are not fun, I've read some real horror stories. People trying them like you and end up spending $2000, because the heads had to be pulled.

Cuda
02-07-2010, 07:59 PM
I can't imagine the plugs being shot out already. I pulled one plug from a Ford Explorer Sport Trac. It was the easiest one to pull, and it still took me 45 minutes to get it out. I decided the other five didn't need replaced. I just threw away 5 new plugs for that truck yesterday.

mrfixxall
02-07-2010, 09:08 PM
Fog the intake with sea foam and let it sit,this will soak into the plug threads and dissolve the carbon build up on the threads on the plugs

VetteLT193
02-08-2010, 06:47 AM
Did you clean out the hole you put the PB Blaster in? or could you have put a wrong connector on the wrong COP? From what I recall this could be done, theirs enough slack in the wiring.
I feel for you, these plugs are not fun, I've read some real horror stories. People trying them like you and end up spending $2000, because the heads had to be pulled.

I blew out the holes with air.

I am 100% sure I got all the connectors on correct. On mine there is barely enough slack to get half of them on.

I am going back to basics and will check the slip joint. Even though this doesn't seem like slip joint problem.

Cuda
02-08-2010, 07:15 AM
What's the slip joint?

VetteLT193
02-08-2010, 08:04 AM
What's the slip joint?

In a nutshell it's part of the drive shaft. Look down the shaft and you should see a rubber boot. Pop off the clamp on one side, slide boot back, put in grease, then get a new clamp and re clamp the boot. Inside is like a slide in gear for lack of better terms. You know what the end of an outdrive looks like off the boat? it's like that...

The slip joint is usually only attributed to a clunk when going into gear or starting to move from a stop, but I figure it is worth a shot...

motorcity
02-08-2010, 08:58 AM
Their is a special Teflon grease(PTFE) that Ford has for the splines. The splines are coated fromthe factory with teflon and when you inspect it you can tell if it has worn off. Harbor Freight has some stainless clamp that you can possibly use on the boot. A word of warning, use the Ford grease others have tried just a regular grease and have found that it does not last as long as the Ford product. Below is a link to a" How To".
The Grease part # D2AZ-19590-A Also known as XG5

http://www.eurekaboy.com/f250/slipjoint.htm

mrfixxall
02-08-2010, 09:11 AM
In a nutshell it's part of the drive shaft. Look down the shaft and you should see a rubber boot. Pop off the clamp on one side, slide boot back, put in grease, then get a new clamp and re clamp the boot. Inside is like a slide in gear for lack of better terms. You know what the end of an outdrive looks like off the boat? it's like that...

The slip joint is usually only attributed to a clunk when going into gear or starting to move from a stop, but I figure it is worth a shot...


Ummmmm! don't you have independent suspension on all 4 corners?

The differentials in solid/rubber mounted and the drive shafts don't move all that much to get a clunk..

check your balljoints,ford are known for them..

VetteLT193
02-08-2010, 10:36 AM
Ummmmm! don't you have independent suspension on all 4 corners?

The differentials in solid/rubber mounted and the drive shafts don't move all that much to get a clunk..

check your balljoints,ford are known for them..

The feeling is a severe clunk. a bucking with a clunk sound attached.

Cuda
02-08-2010, 11:03 AM
Does it just clunk once, or a series of clunks?

VetteLT193
02-08-2010, 11:28 AM
Does it just clunk once, or a series of clunks?

could be once, could be a series. if I keep on it it will continue to clunk. if I back off of it it will be one.

Cuda
02-08-2010, 12:57 PM
Sounds more like an engine miss to me. They made engines where I can no longer work on them. Give me a carb and a distributor and I'll be ok. :)

Cuda
02-08-2010, 12:58 PM
I used to say, "If I can't fix it, it ain't broke". :)

mrfixxall
02-08-2010, 01:02 PM
could be once, could be a series. if I keep on it it will continue to clunk. if I back off of it it will be one.
video tape it and post it..

Vette, do a brake torque to put a load on the engine and see if you can feel a miss,no miss the you have problems,if you feel a fart through the intake then its time for a fuel filter or your electronic fuel pressure regulator is taking a chit..

Trake it in on a suburban :) 2010 have 402 hp,but thats the gmc yukon line..

VetteLT193
02-08-2010, 02:29 PM
video tape it and post it..

Vette, do a brake torque to put a load on the engine and see if you can feel a miss,no miss the you have problems,if you feel a fart through the intake then its time for a fuel filter or your electronic fuel pressure regulator is taking a chit..

Trake it in on a suburban :) 2010 have 402 hp,but thats the gmc yukon line..

not a bad idea... I'll see if I can get out tonight :)

VetteLT193
02-08-2010, 04:49 PM
I did the brake torque thing but with all this electronic crap who the hell knows what it was doing. seemed to limit me to 2000-ish then after a few seconds backed me way off. I couldn't tell much of anything from that.

here is a short vid. on top of the crazy low RPM knock I get a mid range RPM hesitation. it falls on its face at 3500 or so... listen closely and you will hear the hesitation in this video in the mid 3000's then it picks back up.

I got a couple more vids but this one is the main one that shows kindo f what is going on . the knock didn't come through for some reason.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87Jk5KzNpQw

mrfixxall
02-08-2010, 05:58 PM
I did the brake torque thing but with all this electronic crap who the hell knows what it was doing. seemed to limit me to 2000-ish then after a few seconds backed me way off. I couldn't tell much of anything from that.

here is a short vid. on top of the crazy low RPM knock I get a mid range RPM hesitation. it falls on its face at 3500 or so... listen closely and you will hear the hesitation in this video in the mid 3000's then it picks back up.

I got a couple more vids but this one is the main one that shows kindo f what is going on . the knock didn't come through for some reason.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87Jk5KzNpQw

if you were sitting still it shoud not have done that,,if your loosing rpm whyle doing a brake torque you are probably loosing fuel pressure and that why your getting a buck..put a fuel pressure guage on it..

Have you changed your fuel filter yet?

if not then replace it,it should have been 20 k ago,,if it seems sluggish then that probably the problem

to much back ground noise in the video..

VetteLT193
02-09-2010, 06:51 AM
if you were sitting still it shoud not have done that,,if your loosing rpm whyle doing a brake torque you are probably loosing fuel pressure and that why your getting a buck..put a fuel pressure guage on it..

Have you changed your fuel filter yet?

if not then replace it,it should have been 20 k ago,,if it seems sluggish then that probably the problem

to much back ground noise in the video..

Fuel filter changed roughly 15k miles ago. I can certainly change it again if you thing that is the issue. I think I can get to the fuel pressure through the scanner too, I'll try that tonight. fuel filter is an easy problem. I hope it is that!!!

Cuda
02-09-2010, 07:36 AM
I changed the fuel filter on mine, and it made absolutely no difference.

If it wasn't such a PITA, I'd pull the plugs and do a compression test on it.

mrfixxall
02-09-2010, 09:45 AM
Fuel filter changed roughly 15k miles ago. I can certainly change it again if you thing that is the issue. I think I can get to the fuel pressure through the scanner too, I'll try that tonight. fuel filter is an easy problem. I hope it is that!!!


I have also changed plenty of those electronic fuel fressure regulators..

on a side note i have also done a few fuel pumps on lower milage fords,mainly the taurus's..the last one i did only had 38.000 miles on it..

hope this helps,,

fixx

Cuda
02-09-2010, 03:42 PM
It could be low fuel pressure, but wouldn't a warning light come on?

mrfixxall
02-09-2010, 04:15 PM
It could be low fuel pressure, but wouldn't a warning light come on?


No! a misfire code or a lien code..on the newer fi vehicles it will set a service code if something is wrong it will set a service code..Example, a po300 means multiple engine misfire,now my job is to determine what caused this multiple?,spark plug's? coil pack's? intake and exhaust valve's seeping? Intake manifold gaskets? a vacuum leak? all mentioned will give you a po300 service code so the service code that come up is just a starting point as to where to start looking which goes back to the basics on how a engine works...cuda their easy to figure out,their just more parts involved,google throttle position sensor,idle air control motor,exhaust gas circulation,mass airflow sensor,coolant temp sensor,cam position sensor,crankshaft position sensor just to name a few and google will give you the description and how it works and what its involved with..

Back to the basics:wink:

VetteLT193
02-09-2010, 05:20 PM
What should fuel pressure be? I'm in the 270-285kpa range according to the computer, not a manual gauge.

Generally, 270 something. so that's approx. 40 PSI +- Didn't vary to any extreme but it did go plus and minus of that regardless of the no power at 3500 rpm or during the clunk problem

mrfixxall
02-09-2010, 06:13 PM
What should fuel pressure be? I'm in the 270-285kpa range according to the computer, not a manual gauge.

Generally, 270 something. so that's approx. 40 PSI +- Didn't vary to any extreme but it did go plus and minus of that regardless of the no power at 3500 rpm or during the clunk problem


ALLDATA say's key off 38-42 with the key off...if it vary's whyle running thats because the fuel pressure regulator is doing its job..

one more thing i forgot to mention,get some mass airflow cleaner, remove the sensor and clean the little resisters behind the screen,ever if their a speck of dust on them it will mess with the ecu and also make it a dog and clunk and pop:bonk:

BUIZILLA
02-09-2010, 06:18 PM
ALLDATA say's key off 38-42 with the key off...if it vary's whyle running thats because the fuel pressure regulator is doing its job..

one more thing i forgot to mention,get some mass airflow cleaner, remove the sensor and clean the little resisters behind the screen,ever if their a speck of dust on them it will mess with the ecu and also make it a dog and clunk and pop:bonk: i'm not so sure about that key-off thingy..:wink:

mrfixxall
02-09-2010, 08:50 PM
i'm not so sure about that key-off thingy..:wink:

2002? i looked 05 and it said a dif pressure,, up to 60psi

VetteLT193
02-10-2010, 06:44 AM
I'm 2005. I did the key off thing first but I didn't take a note of the reading

Cuda
02-10-2010, 08:27 AM
Trade it in. You either got a lemon, or one that wasn't taken care of imho.

VetteLT193
02-10-2010, 08:32 AM
Trade it in. You either got a lemon, or one that wasn't taken care of imho.

One problem doesn't equal a lemon. Other than this it has been pretty much fine besides some warranty items that were taken care of. We've put about 30k miles on it so it isn't like we're sitting on pile of crap.

Cuda
02-10-2010, 08:47 AM
One problem doesn't equal a lemon. Other than this it has been pretty much fine besides some warranty items that were taken care of. We've put about 30k miles on it so it isn't like we're sitting on pile of crap.
No need to get defensive about it. If you have a problem at that low of miles, it's either a lemon, or it wasn't properlly cared for. I have less problems with my 265,000 mile 5.4 than you are having with this vehicle. I don't know what else to call it.

Cuda
02-10-2010, 08:49 AM
I'll just leave it in your capable hands. Good luck.

mrfixxall
02-10-2010, 09:21 AM
Cuda,what year is your? :)




Vette? Do you hear any rattleing noise by the front wheel wells whyle in park idleing in your nav?

VetteLT193
02-10-2010, 09:25 AM
stuff happens. when I figure out what's wrong I'll fix it and move on. I am certainly not the only one that has had this problem.

Unfortunately I don't think the additional sensors, etc. are beneficial to longevity of engines. I personally think the EFI engines from the early 90's were the best that we'll ever see. one bad sensor, or one thing off, and you can get screwed like I am currently because there are so many sensors, etc. on these newer engines. I'll figure it out though.

VetteLT193
02-10-2010, 09:29 AM
Cuda,what year is your? :)




Vette? Do you hear any rattleing noise by the front wheel wells whyle in park idleing in your nav?

thinking cam phazers? I have to check again. I'm getting mixed up between my vehicles. I know I'm getting a slight knocking from the passenger side phazer but it's not bad... you can hear it with the hood up.

I'm trying to think if I have heard a rattle on startup... I think it does occasionally.

Another note, I think it was backfiring through the intake some yesterday.

mrfixxall
02-10-2010, 09:32 AM
thinking cam phazers? I have to check again. I'm getting mixed up between my vehicles. I know I'm getting a slight knocking from the passenger side phazer but it's not bad... you can hear it with the hood up.

I'm trying to think if I have heard a rattle on start up... I think it does occasionally.

Another note, I think it was backfiring through the intake some yesterday.

Yes!!!!! ignition off,unplug both sides and start it up and take it for a ride see if the problem still persists..your going to set a code tho...

Ford has updated those damm thing 6 times and still haven't got it rite..

when they start to go bad it will start to tick,then knock like a rod knock then the knock sensor comes into play and retards the chit out of the timing...

call your local ford dealer, i believe tieir's some kind of a warranty on them because of all the problems they have had with them..

o i did some reading on all data,your fuel pump starts out at 8 volts,the electronic fuel pressure regulator senses what the fuel pressure is then compensates the pressure by the voltage supplied through the pcm to the fuel pump..so basically their regulating the fuel pressure by voltage going to the pump,so the higher the voltage the higher the pressure..

Man thease effin mfr's are making things so much more complicated......

VetteLT193
02-10-2010, 09:58 AM
Yes!!!!! ignition off,unplug both sides and start it up and take it for a ride see if the problem still persists..your going to set a code tho...

Ford has updated those damm thing 6 times and still haven't got it rite..

when they start to go bad it will start to tick,then knock like a rod knock then the knock sensor comes into play and retards the chit out of the timing...

call your local ford dealer, i believe tieir's some kind of a warranty on them because of all the problems they have had with them..

o i did some reading on all data,your fuel pump starts out at 8 volts,the electronic fuel pressure regulator senses what the fuel pressure is then compensates the pressure by the voltage supplied through the pcm to the fuel pump..so basically their regulating the fuel pressure by voltage going to the pump,so the higher the voltage the higher the pressure..

Man thease effin mfr's are making things so much more complicated......

Do you know where the plugs to disconnect are from memory?

If it is cam phazers I think I can warranty that anyway, because they already messed with them while it was under warranty.

mrfixxall
02-10-2010, 10:13 AM
Do you know where the plugs to disconnect are from memory?

If it is cam phazers I think I can warranty that anyway, because they already messed with them while it was under warranty.


the plugs are at the top of the valve covers in the front,linkda looks like a oil pressure switch sticking through the valve cover..

From what i understand they will always have problem's with them,some good ones that dont give you any troubles and alot of bad one's..once they start making noise they only get worse..

VetteLT193
02-10-2010, 10:14 AM
the plugs are at the top of the valve covers in the front,linkda looks like a oil pressure switch sticking through the valve cover..

thanks!!!! Another test run after work :)

I really appreciate your help!!!

VetteLT193
02-10-2010, 06:09 PM
Alright... both sides unplugged. Just to be sure, they are forward facing (i.e. I pulled them out towards the front bumper).

It ran actually quite well until it warmed up just a bit. then it ran like absolute crap. It might have ran fine because I farted out of the neighborhood (I roll slow for the kids). The same knock/buck/misfire whatever exposed itself under the lightest of loads. I ran to the gas station less than a mile to my house to fill it up with premium and I wasn't sure if I would make it home. As long as I went slow, life was good. if I got on it at the very least, like I would normally drive, it went buck wild.

....... so what do you think? ......

My educated guess is the cam phazers are fine and are actually hiding a bigger problem. am I on, or off base?

BUIZILLA
02-10-2010, 06:27 PM
no codes?

mass air sensor or EGR...

VetteLT193
02-10-2010, 06:31 PM
no codes?

mass air sensor or EGR...

Just came back to post that! No codes even with the sensors unplugged.

Gotta pull the MAF next. I haven't done it on this engine yet, it has to be in an odd spot being the strange air filter placement.

EGR? haven't got much of a clue where and what to check on this particular engine. more research....

Also, I did reading from others with identical problems. a couple were TPS sensors. seems odd condidering it's usually a delta value but at this point I guess it is fair game...

mrfixxall
02-10-2010, 07:04 PM
Just came back to post that! No codes even with the sensors unplugged.

Gotta pull the MAF next. I haven't done it on this engine yet, it has to be in an odd spot being the strange air filter placement.

EGR? haven't got much of a clue where and what to check on this particular engine. more research....

Also, I did reading from others with identical problems. a couple were TPS sensors. seems odd condidering it's usually a delta value but at this point I guess it is fair game...


after you clean your maf use the compressed air in the can that you use on computors to blow it off..maf on that vehicle should be directly behind the air filter...BTW did you put a k&n in the nav?

motorcity
02-10-2010, 07:37 PM
Vette,

below is a link to a good forum site. Maybe you can get some help there. Their are even some Ford tech that hang out on it.

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/index.php

VetteLT193
02-10-2010, 09:15 PM
after you clean your maf use the compressed air in the can that you use on computors to blow it off..maf on that vehicle should be directly behind the air filter...BTW did you put a k&n in the nav?

K&N installed about a week after I bought it. I haven't touched it since except to check to make sure it looks ok


Vette,
below is a link to a good forum site. Maybe you can get some help there. Their are even some Ford tech that hang out on it.
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/index.php

Thanks: I have done research there, and a few other sites, but unfortunately not nearly as helpful as here IMO. I also feel like a bit of a mooch when I am not a Ford fanatic that will hang around and try to help others. At least here I can buy a drink at an event as a thank you or drop a gift card in the mail so Fixx can take his old lady out to dinner.:wink:

VetteLT193
02-10-2010, 09:18 PM
Fixx... I was thinking.... why do you say use computer air Vs. regular compressed air from my compressor? will the regular compressed air be too strong, or other?

VetteLT193
02-10-2010, 09:35 PM
I just pulled the MAF. I like things that I'm used to, like round MAF's. not like this where I can almost plug the sucker into my USB port.

I have 100,000 cleaners and no MAF cleaner at my house... at least that I can find.... so it's another tomorrow thing.

VetteLT193
02-11-2010, 07:02 PM
cleaned it, ran much better. still a mild clunk but only occasional. I am going to clean it again. possibly buy a new one...

The instructions say to clean the MAF hot. is that possible?

motorcity
02-11-2010, 07:08 PM
The oil from those aftermarket filters will coat the inside of the throttlebody and can cause problems. K&N's are more hype than anythind on a road vehicle. I had one on a preveious truck and the inside of the air box was coated with a coat of fine dust. They just aren't good to use. I've beeen using Amsoil Power Foam, works great for cleaning throttle bodies.

mrfixxall
02-11-2010, 07:57 PM
Fixx... I was thinking.... why do you say use computer air Vs. regular compressed air from my compressor? will the regular compressed air be too strong, or other?

after you use the maf cleaner i like to lightly blow compressed air on to them to dry them out..I didnt know if you had a compresson and knew you aworked on computors so i just threw out their because i know you probably have it..:)

As for the k&n i was just womdering because of how less restrictive they are,when ever i see dirty maf its because of the k&n filter allows dirt to get into then if their not cleaned and oiled..

mrfixxall
02-11-2010, 08:07 PM
cleaned it, ran much better. still a mild clunk but only occasional. I am going to clean it again. possibly buy a new one...

The instructions say to clean the MAF hot. is that possible?


Dont waste your money! if its dirty it wont throw a code,and if it were bad it would throw a code...i still think it may be in your cam phasers if their making noise,the knock sensor will pick up the noise and throw the engine in retard mode..

VetteLT193
02-12-2010, 09:35 AM
Dont waste your money! if its dirty it wont throw a code,and if it were bad it would throw a code...i still think it may be in your cam phasers if their making noise,the knock sensor will pick up the noise and throw the engine in retard mode..

I have been listening closely to see what's up. The phazers make some noise on startup if it has been sitting for at least overnight. The rattle is for a second or so... I'm guessing they rattle for that second where the Oil pressure is building.

It ran nearly perfect this morning... had to get to work early so I drove it in separate from the wife. MPG is up. had a slight clunk one time. I think another cleaning of the MAF might do the trick. I didn't get a chance to do it a second time last night.

As for the K&N I only put it on this vehicle because it's just easier to not replace the thing. I have one in the Town Car too... I'm not looking for more power in these vehicles just less maintenance. I'll check into the Amsoil one if it is better.

Cuda
02-12-2010, 02:39 PM
Any noise at start up I would attribute to building oil pressure. It can be the lifters, or more likely the rod, or main bearings.

VetteLT193
06-04-2010, 10:00 AM
Well.. I thought this problem was solved but it is not.

I have been monitoring it very closely and figured out one minor, although major, detail. When my wife drives the car it runs like crap. When I drive the car I have little to no problems. I finally figured out it has to do with throttle position and how aggressive you drive the car. A large increase in throttle position at low RPM's cause this issue.

to test I brake torqued... very slowly increasing the throttle I can do a burnout, tons of power, brakes can't even hold the car stopped.

If I just floor it the thing bucks, misses, etc.

So... TPS? or something to do with the electronic throttle control?

Still zero codes.

mrfixxall
06-04-2010, 12:10 PM
Finny you bring this up again! i mad a mazda 6 in the shop last night and the complaint was it was bucking....upon inspection i found a vacuum line collapsing which then caused a crease in the hose and a minor vacuum leak..replaced the hose and the problem went away..

Fords are notorious for chitty vacuum leaks,,hoses collapsing and the intake gaskets leaking..

check the hose going fron the intake plenum to the valve cover.

motorcity
06-04-2010, 04:33 PM
It might be worth checking to see if the TPS is adjusted correctly, I think all you need is an ohm meter and the specs, for what ohms at idle.