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View Full Version : Where are all the good Classic's



pokster
12-28-2009, 08:13 PM
Can someone tell me why it is so hard to find a 22ft classic with out cracks in the cockpit and in the hull under the motor monts? I have been looking for a Donzi and keep running into these problem in 1996's. Is there a better year to look at or is this just how it is? I wanted to get my husband a Donzi as he loves them but have struck out the last 5 boats I have looked at. Hope you guys can help me:confused:

gcarter
12-28-2009, 08:26 PM
Mine is for sale and it does not, nor will have the cracks you're referring to.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=58551

Tidbart
12-29-2009, 07:44 AM
Can someone tell me why it is so hard to find a 22ft classic with out cracks in the cockpit and in the hull under the motor monts? I have been looking for a Donzi and keep running into these problem in 1996's. Is there a better year to look at or is this just how it is? I wanted to get my husband a Donzi as he loves them but have struck out the last 5 boats I have looked at. Hope you guys can help me:confused:

Keep in mind that this time of year most of the 22s are in storage for the winter unless you find one in Florida, like George's.

B

Carl C
12-29-2009, 08:00 AM
That's interesting that you are finding cracks on the hulls under the motor mount area. I thought that was an isolated issue.

BUIZILLA
12-29-2009, 08:09 AM
EVERY plastic boat has some cracks here and there, I don't care who makes it...

woody's are no different

stuff moves..

personally I think she's being misled on what's acceptable, what's normal, and what's not... she's becoming paranoid due to this, and that's unfortunate

pokster
12-29-2009, 09:39 AM
So what is normal. I have a 1998 jet boat that has been flung off of everything and it has no cracks in it, but when I go and look at these donzi's for that last 5 years they have cracks in the hull and in the cockpit. What I can not understand is if you see a crack why not fix it? I don't mind the sprider cracks it is the cracks that are open that you could chip away at it with a knife.

pokster
12-29-2009, 09:42 AM
What I was hoping for was you guys to tell me what is normal and what I should stay a way from. I have heard that the new cockpit design will have spider cracks in the corners. I will try and post the cracks I have seen as I have pictures of them and I hope you can tell me if these are normal.

Carl C
12-29-2009, 11:43 AM
I wouldn't see cockpit cracks as a huge issue but IMO there should be NO cracks on the bottom. If you think they may be just gel cracks then I would have a surveyer verify that. Pictures of what you are finding would be of great help and interest.

gcarter
12-29-2009, 12:10 PM
Gel is much more brittle than the underlying composite substrate.
If a section of the hull or deck flexes "excessively", then the gel will crack.
The solution for most of it is to reinforce the flexing area to minimise damage.
Donzi HAS had some issues over the years. The harder the boat is used, the worse the damage will appear.
Buizilla is correct in that you can't build a completely rigid boat, but a boat can be reinforced in the weaker areas, i.e., cockpit floor, cockpit coaming, stringer bases and hull under the engine mounts.
I've often thought Donzi could, during layup, make some very inexpensive modifications/additions/alterations to various layup schedules to minimise these issues.
That is what I've tried to do to my 22C Testa Rossa.

pokster
12-29-2009, 03:00 PM
Here are the cracks we have found in looking at boats. The pictures don't show the depth of the cracks.

pokster
12-29-2009, 03:02 PM
The pics were from owners who said there were no cracks and that their boats were perfect.

gcarter
12-29-2009, 03:30 PM
Not sure about where the blue one is, but these are exactly the types of damage I was refering to above.
The idea in reinforcement (in my opinion) is to spread the load to limit the flexing in local areas. If it's forced to flex over a much larger area (because of additional stiffening being added), the damage will be much less or non-existant.
The cracks around the aft end of the inner strakes are very common and the forward engine mounts are directly above them. Damage there can be much worse depending on how much power is installed and how hard it's operated.
The cockpit floor cracks are common because of the stinginess of Donzi in the layup UNDER the cockpit, also because of the core material used and how the cockpit is supported.
Looks like there was a collision w/the trailer bow post at some point!!!!!
If you care to read the first 20 pages of my thread; http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=50476 you'll see the extent the damage can be and how it can be fixed.

pokster
12-29-2009, 03:43 PM
I know cracks can be fixed but then the person selling the boat should not be asking 20k for their boat as in my opinon it is not perfect it needs work. Or am I chaseing a dream of finding a well taken care for Donzi. I just want to know is this what I am going to find even speding 20+ for a boat? I am not to worried about the cracks in the cockpit but it is the cracks in the hull I am worried about. So I wanted to know your opinion of what is normal and what is not for Donzi's.

Jraysray
12-29-2009, 03:54 PM
Mine is for sale and it does not, nor will have the cracks you're referring to.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=58551


I know cracks can be fixed but then the person selling the boat should not be asking 20k for their boat as in my opinon it is not perfect it needs work. Or am I chaseing a dream of finding a well taken care for Donzi. I just want to know is this what I am going to find even speding 20+ for a boat? I am not to worried about the cracks in the cockpit but it is the cracks in the hull I am worried about. So I wanted to know your opinion of what is normal and what is not for Donzi's.

Look into the above mentioned boat. George has done some amazing work.

gcarter
12-29-2009, 04:20 PM
I know cracks can be fixed but then the person selling the boat should not be asking 20k for their boat as in my opinon it is not perfect it needs work. Or am I chaseing a dream of finding a well taken care for Donzi. I just want to know is this what I am going to find even speding 20+ for a boat? I am not to worried about the cracks in the cockpit but it is the cracks in the hull I am worried about. So I wanted to know your opinion of what is normal and what is not for Donzi's.

The cracks in the hull are normal. But they can be fixed, and the hull improved fairly easily. The problem is, it'll end up costing closer to $30K rather than $20K.
Quite a few folks around here have done this.....

Carl C
12-29-2009, 04:58 PM
IMO:
I don't like pic #2. That's a problem area.
A seller should disclose the cracks, those boats are not perfect.
You should not buy a boat with cracks as pictured unless it is a resto project.
You can find a nice one if you keep looking.
Good luck.

BUIZILLA
12-29-2009, 05:21 PM
for 20k I don't like any of them...

in fact, pic#3 scares the hell out of me

The Hedgehog
12-29-2009, 06:00 PM
I am with these guys on #3.

I would be driving down to Florida to check out that cool looking Red 22.

Like a number of these guys, I have fooled with mechanical, structural and cosmetic issues with these boats. For me the mechanical stuff is the easiest and has the fewest wildcards (short of the exotic stuff). Having done a deck off resto, I would gladly take one that someone has done all of the cosmetic and structural stuff. Especially in Red Gel:shocking: Any day of the week.

Carl C
12-29-2009, 06:48 PM
I've got a feeling that George's boat may be more than pokster wants to tackle. It still needs to be rigged and will end up costing at least $30g +. Worth every penny but not everyone is as crazy as some of us. That boat deserves to be done up right with some serious power and rigging!

NJFASTECH
12-29-2009, 07:20 PM
for 20k I don't like any of them...

in fact, pic#3 scares the hell out of me

That is result of a pretty good impact. The floor pic also indicates a problem! Is it possible to spend the 20 K she speaks of and have no issues? I wonder.

Carl C
12-29-2009, 07:47 PM
Is it possible to spend the 20 K she speaks of and have no issues? I wonder.
I would think so. That's not pocket change.

oledawg
12-29-2009, 08:48 PM
Very interesting thread to me as I bought my first used Donzi about 3 months ago, knowing very little about what to look for. As it turned out my '88 454 MAG did indeed have a crack in the back right corner of the cockpit floor, hidden by the carpet which I didn't think of looking under. It has a few minor stress cracks around the engine hatch, but otherwise seems pretty good. Mechanically the boat is great, runs like the proverbial "scalded dog". I paid $9,500 and have put new upholstery, new carpet, cockpit cover, etc. No mechanical work needed other than routine maintenance. Not a perfect boat by any means, but one that I have and likely will continue to totally enjoy. So, depends on if you are looking for concours or usability. I have a great usable boat for about $11,000 so I am confident that she can find one that will provide a lot of fun for $20,000 just might not be "perfect".

pokster
12-29-2009, 09:58 PM
I am glad you agree that some of those pics are not good. I am with you on the motor and outdrive does not scare me as I have rebuilt a motor and know of many good merc people to work on the drive for me. I am lucky to live 30 mins away from Mecurey factory that will send out a tech to a shop around here if they need help and can get parts the same day. It is the hull that scares me I have done gel and fiberglass work before and don't mind doing it but to pay 20k for a boat and have to do to seems very odd to me.

pokster
12-29-2009, 10:01 PM
So I ask the question which cracks are normal and where should I be concerned? Cockpit, hull, transom??? Does anyone know of other places to look for boats for sale other then Traderonline, craigslist, scream and fly and here?

gcarter
12-30-2009, 06:22 AM
All of them are normal, except for the bow....that's the result of a collision.
I didn't see any transom pictures.....so I can't comment on that.
The cockpit coaming frequently cracks and is related to the cockpit floor, they're all related to the stingy layup and cockpit floor support (or lack of it).
The cracks in the bottom around the engine mounts can get quite large and some here have experienced near catastrophic failure....it just depends on the boat.
Donzi did come out w/a fix, which I followed on mine.

Carl C
12-30-2009, 08:26 AM
Pokster, when I was in the market in '05 I was discouraged by what was available nearby and I wasn't about to fly around the country looking at used boats. So I ended up buying a brand new one from Pier 57. If your credit is good you can get good financing on a new boat and insurance is easier and cheaper too. There are some great deals on new boats now. Call around. There are some really good deals on late model used boats on this site also. George's Testerossa is awesome and his work is immaculate but it needs to be rigged which won't be cheap. How much are you guys into boating? If it is your passion and dream to own a nice 22 Classic IMO spend more and get a late model boat. You will still want to look for cracking on the bottom and the cracks can be hard to see when just starting. Get under there with a bright light and pay particular attention to the area in your pic #2. I could give you some other tips on what to look for on a late model if you send a PM or call me at 248-330-0048. If you don't have the addiction as badly as I do then keep looking and you will find a nice used boat for 20k that hasn't had the snot run out of it and has been taken care of.

MOP
12-30-2009, 08:42 AM
Spent a few minutes speaking with George this AM about his comment in another post about the stringers in the late boats not being a continuous one unit, George sent me a PM with the picture from Yellers deck swap post. All of us that own 22's know that the gussets break loose in this area, kind of spooked me to see what Donzi did. On landing a lot of upward force is exerted in that area that is what tears the gussets loose, if left unaddressed I am thinking this will be a problem on run hard hulls in the the future. Check the photos in the link you do not have to be an engineer to see the issue, there is very little to tie the stringers to the bulkhead on either side! Remember this is upward force, it would be of little to no consequence with downward force. You guys that run your late 22's hard should keep an eye on that area.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=56726&page=5

mattyboy
12-30-2009, 08:49 AM
Pokster,

From my experence with a 40 year old Donzi . A donzi that had a ton of stress cracks when i bought it ,and a ton more when i sold it. Speaking for the older boats they are very tough. The new owner of my boat has now beaten the hell out of her. hitting docks, hitting stumps , pounding on her so hard the starter fell out!. She has not had a catastrophic failure.

Alot has to do with how the boat lived it's life and how it will lead it's future life.
All Donzi from All era's have issues , these issues can be minor or major.Find the right boat that meets your needs . You will not regret it.

I just bought a new one I went newer . I sold the 67 and bought a 68.

I looked at a ton of boats before I went with the new boat. I saw good deals on newer 22s and 18s, also boats from the 80's as well.

The biggest thing is to know your boating style and what you are willing to do yourself or pay someone to do for you.

If this will be a weekend boat that is used for cruising and not pushing the evelope. The any good mild power 22 in good shape should give you many years of baoting pleasure.
On the other hand if you want to run with the big boys and lead the pack any boat will need to be beefed up and strengthened.

Another thing to do would be get to one of the gatherings in your area go see the different boats and the different work people have done to them.

good luck on the search

pokster
12-30-2009, 11:16 AM
Thank you for all the great info please keep it coming. I would love the tess boat but we hate red, one of our down falls in looking for a Donzi. I guess I find it hard to belive that after spending 20k that I still have to put work into it to make it a good boat. And I can not understand why people do not fix the cracks when they show up. I do that to my little 16 ft jet boat which only had two spider cracks in the last 8 years of owning it. It seems that I take care of my little 5k boat better then people take care of 20+K boats. That is very sad that they do not take care of these classics in the manner they should be.

I also find it hard to belive that even if I buy a new boat I have to beef it up right off the factory floor. I wonder what Proline will do with the classic being the new owners of Donzi.

Tidbart
12-30-2009, 12:43 PM
I would love the tess boat but we hate red, one of our down falls in looking for a Donzi.

I also find it hard to belive that even if I buy a new boat I have to beef it up right off the factory floor. I wonder what Proline will do with the classic being the new owners of Donzi.

I am sure George would re-gel the boat a different color, if asked. :bonk::wink:

You should have to beef up a boat when you get one. Be patient. The spring will bring out the sales. There will plenty of good boats at bargain prices, say economy. $20K will get you a fine boat, not necessarily perfect, but something you can work with.

FYI, Proline doesn't own Donzi, they are sister companies, both owned by a private investor(s).

Bob

gcarter
12-30-2009, 03:06 PM
I am sure George would re-gel the boat a different color, if asked. :bonk::wink:
Bob

ANY color would have been cheaper and easier than red.:boggled:

And ther new investers/owners also own Fountain.:confused:
I wonder how that's going to workj out in the long run?

pokster
12-30-2009, 03:23 PM
When I called down to the company the guy answering said Donzi was sold to them. As for Fountain and Baja I heard they are done at least for this season.

Ok back on track what I hearing is I am paying a good 20k for a project boat?? I'm I hearing that right?

Carl C
12-30-2009, 03:30 PM
Ok back on track what I hearing is I am paying a good 20k for a project boat?? I'm I hearing that right?

No. Keep looking and keep posting here for help.

pokster
12-30-2009, 06:51 PM
Ok I found one that is a 1995 down south with a rebuilt based motor in 2004 with white bottom paint. What should it be worth?

gcarter
12-30-2009, 06:59 PM
[quote=pokster;552117]When I called down to the company the guy answering said Donzi was sold to them. As for Fountain and Baja I heard they are done at least for this season.quote]

Lee Kimmel and two other investors bought Pro-Line in 1986. In 1992, these investors formed American Marine Holdings which bought Donzi in 1994 from OMC.
1994 saw changes to the 22C and other models that are still around today.
Last year saw AMH run out of funds and nearly ceased to exist but didn't go bankrupt apparently.
The new investors apparently like boats....alot!...and have made it possible for Donzi and Pro-Line to still exist.
I have a friend that furnishes certain business services to both companies. The last time I spoke w/her, both plants are producing boats. Apparently management moves back and forth between the two companies and spends three days at a time at each I've been told.

mrfixxall
12-30-2009, 09:19 PM
Here's a nice low hour one, and its a collector edition too!

Hey it reads or best offer :)

http://nh.craigslist.org/boa/1502443607.html

http://streetmachineclub.racingjunk.com/category/149/Used_Boats/post/1702956/1993-Donzi-22-Classic-Supercharged-454.html?imageIndex=0&showSuperSize=true

http://www.michigannewandusedboats.com/search_boats/index.php?bvnpage=ad&boatid=4310&boat=used%2023%20foot%201997%20Donzi%2022%20classi c%20Power%20Boat

pokster
12-30-2009, 09:23 PM
A blackhawk is a little more then I need. But a very nice boat:)

MOP
12-31-2009, 05:20 PM
A blackhawk is a little more then I need. But a very nice boat:)

The Blackhawk is IMO for those that have a lot of seat time, they can be scary to others.

pokster
12-31-2009, 07:23 PM
Had a friend who had one went fast and was great to ride in but a handful to use every weekend on the lakes in WI as they are smaller. But a very nice boat.

Carl C
12-31-2009, 07:35 PM
Had a friend who had one went fast and was great to ride in but a handful to use every weekend on the lakes in WI as they are smaller. But a very nice boat.
They are all driver's boats, I guess the Blackhawk even more so. That's why I love the Classics. Once you learn how to drive them they are a blast to drive. Then you will start wanting to go faster.........maybe.