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Cuda
11-29-2009, 01:52 PM
This is my third Triton engine, and I have never had to look for the distributor. I can't find it, or see a plug wire. :(

zelatore
11-29-2009, 02:02 PM
Never had a 5.4 - coil-on-plug?

MOP
11-29-2009, 02:59 PM
If it is like my kids it has coil packs, one coil for each cylinder, look for little wire not big ones!!!!!

gear head
11-29-2009, 05:57 PM
Cuda, I am an ex 25 year ford service manager so I know what is what.
5.4l have no dist or plug wires. coil on plug system with cam and crank sensors. if your problem is a miss, that engine design is famous for water getting below the coil boots and rusting out the plug causing a miss. usually on the passenger side rear of the engine. if you have any questions let me know. I hope this helps.

Phil S
11-29-2009, 07:34 PM
I have to ask, because I just looked under the hood of my cousin's Expedition....how in the heck did the engineer designing this engine, expect someone to actually change the left bank of spark plugs, much less the right rear (from the front bumper facing the motor) ?????

Do you need special tools (to change the spark plugs) ?

Just wonderin',

WKR,
Phil S

CaribouLou
11-29-2009, 10:00 PM
Better then the 6.0 powerstroke....pull the cab to do the headstuds, great job ford!

Cuda
11-30-2009, 12:03 AM
Cuda, I am an ex 25 year ford service manager so I know what is what.
5.4l have no dist or plug wires. coil on plug system with cam and crank sensors. if your problem is a miss, that engine design is famous for water getting below the coil boots and rusting out the plug causing a miss. usually on the passenger side rear of the engine. if you have any questions let me know. I hope this helps.
I have a miss from about idle to 1800 rpm. Sometimes it runs better than others. The engine shows 265,000 miles.:eek:

Phil S
11-30-2009, 01:00 AM
...here's the response you don't want...

"you have a "miss' from about idle to 1800 rpm".......

Personally, I'd be thankful for a "miss" at any rpm...much less mine... :)

Seriously tho, I'm thinkin' you have a spark issue....plug / plug-wire..etc. Only at certain range of rpm's ?

WKR,
Phil S

CHACHI
11-30-2009, 06:04 AM
Go light a candle before you change the plugs.

Just sayin'.

Ken

BUIZILLA
11-30-2009, 07:10 AM
I just changed the plugs in my 2004 5.4...

99,000 miles

the gap was just over .100 from wear... :shocking:

ran perfectly...

this F250 has been absolutely a great truck for what we use it for, not one hiccup, dealer repair, recall, miscue, squeak, rattle, still has original brakes... nothing whatsoever...

Cuda
11-30-2009, 08:48 AM
...... :)
Seriously tho, I'm thinkin' you have a spark issue....plug / plug-wire..etc. Only at certain range of rpm's ?
WKR,
Phil S
That's what I thought, that's why I was looking for a distributor. :)

Cuda
11-30-2009, 08:51 AM
I just changed the plugs in my 2004 5.4...

99,000 miles

the gap was just over .100 from wear... :shocking:

ran perfectly...

this F250 has been absolutely a great truck for what we use it for, not one hiccup, dealer repair, recall, miscue, squeak, rattle, still has original brakes... nothing whatsoever...
I had a 99 F150 5.4 that I bought new, put 122,000 miles on it. All I did was change the oil, and a couple of fuel filters, put on an alternator at 111,000 miles, and sold it to the first person that looked at it.

gcarter
11-30-2009, 09:03 AM
I had a coil go out on my 4.6. It was very intermitant for a long time and wouldn't show a code for months. It finally did and I changed #7 coil. About $85.00. No issues since....for coils.

Cuda
11-30-2009, 09:46 AM
I had a coil go out on my 4.6. It was very intermitant for a long time and wouldn't show a code for months. It finally did and I changed #7 coil. About $85.00. No issues since....for coils.
Did it require any special tools?

mrfixxall
11-30-2009, 10:18 AM
all you need is a 8mm socket and a swivel to get the coil packs out,a slight tug and they come out..be careful removing the spark plugs because they are known to pull the threads out of the cylinder heads because their isn't much their..apply a vary minimal amount of anti seize to the plug threads for future removal,also apply anti seize to the 8mm bolts that hold the coil packs in place followed by dielectric Greece in the coil pack ends where the spark plug goes,keeps them from rusting when water gets in the little hole:wink:

Cuda
11-30-2009, 11:43 AM
Thanks. I guess that explains why I couldn't find a distributor, or plug wires. I'm getting to old. :(

gear head
11-30-2009, 08:38 PM
sounds like the plug holes have gotten water in them and rusted and are shorting out the plug and or boots. you can replace just the coil boots and the plugs. soak the plugs heavily in wd 40 before removing. if they break or pull the threads out of the head, you will need special service tools to make the repair or replace the head. look on the boots and you will probably see a small white arcing mark where the spark is jumping through the boot to the side of the head. good luck.

Forrest
12-01-2009, 04:38 PM
Those Ford COP coils are notorious for going bad after 100k miles. When one goes bad, the engine will randomly miss like hell and never leave a code. For a home garage repair, the best thing is to not monkey around with trying to figure out which one is bad, rather you should just replace them all since another coil will probabaly go bad soon anyway. I have found that the white-box generic COP coils from eBay vendors work as well as the expensive F-word stuff at a fraction of the price. Also, be sure to change the plugs at the same time, but be careful with those sparkplug hole threads, especially on the early model (before 2002?) Triton heads. They had a habit of blowing the plug out of the hole and leaving no threads behind. :frown: A whole industry has been created just to fix this problem, before or after the fact, without pulling the heads. Just Google it and you will see!

Cuda
12-01-2009, 07:48 PM
Are the spark plugs and coils located on top of the engine, ie, through the valve covers?

gcarter
12-01-2009, 08:37 PM
Are the spark plugs and coils located on top of the engine, ie, through the valve covers?
It's more like through the intake manifold, and near the fuel injector.
They're small, about 1 1/2" in diameter and about 1" high w/a small wiring harness and connector on each.

Cuda
12-02-2009, 07:23 AM
I think the orange thing in this picture is an injector. Is there a plug directly behind it?

VetteLT193
12-02-2009, 09:55 AM
yes... yellow thing is injector. behind that, in this view, is the forward most plug.

VetteLT193
12-02-2009, 09:56 AM
here is a link that has diagrams...

http://www.justanswer.com/questions/2p4ta-2004-f150-5-4-triton-3-valve

mrfixxall
12-02-2009, 10:55 AM
their in between the injector's..cuda your best bet if you don't have a ck engine light is to take it to your mechanic and have him put it on his scanner,have him look at the misfire data and that part of the scanner will tell you what cylinder is misfireing..it may be a injector instead if a coil pack..when i diagnose the fords i look at the misfire data on my scanner to determine which cylinder than i usually unplug the coil pack to see it that's the correct cylinder that's misfireing..if that's the cylinder then i will take a long screwdriver and touch the injector with the blade end and put the other end to my ear and listen to the injector to see if its firing(you will hear a clicking noise) then i ohm the injector out to see if its in got the correct readings..

Also chasing the miss, the 4.6 and some of the 5.4's ive ran into a broken valve spring that caused the problem and didn's have a check engine light..

Cuda
12-02-2009, 02:15 PM
I don't have a check engine light on. My dad has a scanner, but he said unless the check engine light was on, it wouldn't show any codes. They told me the same thing at Auto Zone. I do have an instrument to show the voltage to each plug, but it attaches between the plug wire (Normal) and the plug. You could tell a lot with that machine.

VetteLT193
12-02-2009, 02:29 PM
I don't have a check engine light on. My dad has a scanner, but he said unless the check engine light was on, it wouldn't show any codes. They told me the same thing at Auto Zone. I do have an instrument to show the voltage to each plug, but it attaches between the plug wire (Normal) and the plug. You could tell a lot with that machine.

I am diagnosing a similar issue to yours Joe. I scan the computer, no codes. But, if I run it wide open I get a flashing check engine light for about 20 seconds. Only right after doing that can I get the code to come up. I have to get them again from the house and post them up. I was doing data logging last time out to see WTF is going on, no dice yet. I think the code said Cyl A problem. No idea what cylinder "A" is though.

Cuda
12-02-2009, 03:19 PM
I am diagnosing a similar issue to yours Joe. I scan the computer, no codes. But, if I run it wide open I get a flashing check engine light for about 20 seconds. Only right after doing that can I get the code to come up. I have to get them again from the house and post them up. I was doing data logging last time out to see WTF is going on, no dice yet. I think the code said Cyl A problem. No idea what cylinder "A" is though.
Is that in your Lincoln?

Cuda
12-03-2009, 07:56 PM
I went out and started the truck in the dark, to see if I could see any fire jumping like a short. It won't miss at idle. Maybe tomorrow night I will get my neighbor to stand on the brake and give it gas.

BUIZILLA
12-03-2009, 08:38 PM
Joe.... send me all the injectors... won't cost you a dime.

Cuda
12-04-2009, 06:36 AM
Thanks Jim, but it would leave me without a vehicle. I have problems with my balance on days after I have to take a shot for the Ms. Today is a day when my balance is better. I may be able to get up in the engine. I'm going to ask my neighbor to come over tonight and rev my engine up while I look for spark jumping.

gcarter
12-04-2009, 06:54 AM
Thanks Jim, but it would leave me without a vehicle. I have problems with my balance on days after I have to take a shot for the Ms. Today is a day when my balance is better. I may be able to get up in the engine. I'm going to ask my neighbor to come over tonight and rev my engine up while I look for spark jumping.

I'm not saying it would be a waste of time, but the coil sits over the hole and pretty much hides what's going on below. You could pull them one at a time and look for tracks, but if it's a failed coil, you won't find anything.
There was nothing on the high tension lead showing on the coil I changed. It just failed internally.
If Ford would spend even a little money on the spark plug area.....
1) Install steel inserts in the thread area during manufactoring.
2) Improve the coil and high tension lead quality.
After market, the inserts cost about $10 each and a LOT of work. A total of $150.00-$200.00 per hole (How do I know this?).
At assembly, it probably would only be $1.00 each.

Cuda
12-04-2009, 08:11 AM
I realize if the coil is just not firing, I won't see anything. If the coil is firing to ground, I figure it must be 30 to 40,000 volts, which I should be able to see in the dark. It looks like it may rain today, which will prevent me from getting in the engine compartment, and checking out the coils closely.

BUIZILLA
12-04-2009, 08:18 AM
Joe.... go to Autozone and get 2 bottles of STP Concentrated Fuel Injector Cleaner, double the dose on the label and ONLY use Chevron 87-89 octane fuel for the next 3-4 tanks... trust me on this...

CHACHI
12-04-2009, 08:34 AM
Cuda, the reason why Jim is saying to use Chevron fuel.

Ken





http://www.chevron.com/products/ourfuels/prodserv/additives/tcp.aspx


http://www.chevron.com/products/ourfuels/prodserv/fuels/

mrfixxall
12-04-2009, 10:02 AM
Cuda,i know your getting a ton of how to's on how to diagnose your problem..do you have access at raytech temp gun? if you aim it at the exhaust port of each cylinder this will tell you which one is fireing by how hot the exhaust manifold is,,the coldest one would be the cylinder that is not fireing..

Or have your neighbor do the brake torque but dont stand in front of the truck,work from the side and disconnect the coil pack on each cylinder and plug it back in..you will the change in the way the engine is running,if you find a cylinder that doesnt change that would be the troubled cylinder..

Conquistador_del_mar
12-04-2009, 11:17 AM
Joe.... go to Autozone and get 2 bottles of STP Concentrated Fuel Injector Cleaner, double the dose on the label and ONLY use Chevron 87-89 octane fuel for the next 3-4 tanks... trust me on this...

I am almost sure that Autozone has a computer hookup than can tell you which coil is not firing. I say this since my son-in-law was there a week or so ago with his friend who had a misfiring Ford - they pinned it to the bad coil pack using a scanner. I personally use B-12 Chemtool to clean my injectors, but I am sure many products will do the job. Bill

Cuda
12-04-2009, 01:22 PM
I've found Techron to be one of the best fixes in a bottle. I used to run a bottle or two in my other 5.4. I think I bought some STP injector cleaner, or something on sale when I first bought the truck.

Ed Donnelly
12-04-2009, 04:39 PM
Cuda; just called Chevron Canada to find the nearest station to me
Its just a hop, skip and a jump west of me..
Not quite 2,500 miles.. Seems they are only in B.C......................Ed

Cuda
12-05-2009, 04:16 PM
I stopped by Autozone, but the lady said there was no power to my scanner hook up. While I was there I bought some Techron. It said it was enough to treat 20 gallons of gas. I poured it in the tank, which may have had about six gallons of gas, and I swear it's already running better. It may just be wishful thinking, but I don't think so.:crossfing:

BUIZILLA
12-05-2009, 07:10 PM
Joe.... go to Autozone and get 2 bottles of STP Concentrated Fuel Injector Cleaner, double the dose on the label and ONLY use Chevron 87-89 octane fuel for the next 3-4 tanks... trust me on this... Joe, please pay attention in class :pimp: read this again... carefully...

if you can't get a reading on your ALDL connector to the scanner, it's very probable you have a dead cell, weak, or shorted cell in your battery.

Cuda
12-05-2009, 07:55 PM
Joe, please pay attention in class :pimp: read this again... carefully...

if you can't get a reading on your ALDL connector to the scanner, it's very probable you have a dead cell, weak, or shorted cell in your battery.
I'm almost sure that it was STP I put in when I bought the truck. The lady at Autozone said it was most likely the fuse that prevented the scanner from powering up. The engines turns over too fast to have dead cell in my opinion.l

KRAVEN
12-06-2009, 08:50 AM
had a similar miss on my 01 supercrew,coil packs $60-$70 each.replaced plugs and boots miss gone.Check each boot for white line which indicate short.internal to each boot is a metal spring with connects coil pack to plug.After time it will throw spark to ground.I believe the cost of boots were less than $5 each.Good Luck:cool:

Cuda
12-06-2009, 11:18 AM
After driving the truck more today, it's certainly running 100% better than before I added the Techron.