No turning back now

[zelatore]

Hey, what's that faint line?

[zelatore]

hmmmmm....maybe it'll be easier to figure out if I highlight with some tape....

[zelatore]

Say now, that's kinda interesting. If a fella was to cut along the dotted line I wonder what would happen?...

[zelatore]

Well, I guess we know where this is going. :yes:

If the dollies were thanks to George C, then this is all Carl's fault! :wink:

I've only done the rough cut-in at this point. I left about 8" for a foot rest, and had to cut the tub into 3 parts to get it out. I'll go back at it tomorrow and trim out the curves on the ends. Pretty much, I'll be following Carl's lead from a couple years ago on this. Hopefully it ends up as well as his did.
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=44706&highlight=bow

I basically just eye-balled a straight edge across just below the tub lip then made a cardboard template for the curves and duplicated them from side to side. I'm using a little smaller radius than Carl, but I think it'll work out fine. No big rush on this project, so don't expect fast progress, but I'll post pictures as I go.

[gcarter]

I'll modify mine before I bolt the foot box back on.
Good luck!

[BigGrizzly]

This could be a neat project.

[MOP]

I always thought making the bow area more useful was a good idea, keep the pics coming you might get me to take my saw out!

[Just Say N20]

The passage of time is an interesting thing. . . .

It has moved Carl from a (insert bad name here) to a visionary.

Don, I'm sure yours will turn out extremely well. It is just the way to do things, and this will be no different. :biggrin:

[harbormaster]

I hate you guys....:wink:
Now I am looking for my saw. I always thought there was so much wasted space under the foredeck of the 22. I can see me also doing this.
I love to come up with something to reroute the fuel hoses over to the side.. Anyone think this would this be a mistake?

[Pismo]

I hate you guys....:wink:
Now I am looking for my saw. I always thought there was so much wasted space under the foredeck of the 22. I can see me also doing this.
I love to come up with something to reroute the fuel hoses over to the side.. Anyone think this would this be a mistake?

I have that silly center fill system as well. You could copy the newer side fill models and route the hose more out of the way. The vent hose could go any route. Leave the old filler cap/fittings in place, it looks fine, glass/weld it shut.

[Ghost]

I have that silly center fill system as well. You could copy the newer side fill models and route the hose more out of the way. The vent hose could go any route. Leave the old filler cap/fittings in place, it looks fine, glass/weld it shut.

With the old fitting in place, you could even go nuts and keep a vent on board--unscrew the cap and screw in the vent for some air below.

BTW, I think an official name (based on "Carl C" in some way) is in order, to replace "cuddy" cabin.

[Ed Donnelly]

Seems everyone is doing the "CARL CABIN" :shades: ...Ed

[zelatore]

I suppose if you were going to pull the tank anyway for some reason you could change the filler neck so it lays over at 90* then route the hose tight up the side of the boat. And then you could also raise the floor a few inches to go over the hose.

Myself, I don't plan to go that route. Like Carl, I'm going to keep it simply. I'll build a couple supports across the tank and put a ply floor in, then I'll re-route the lines so they run together and wrap them with cheap black carpet like I used to use on speaker boxes back in my school days (do kids still build the monster stereos? I'm so old now I spend most of my time in the truck listening to AM talk radio!). I have a great carpet/upholstery shop nearby so I'll have them quote making a red carpet with a heavy rubber backing to lay in. I'll also break out a gallon on paint and go to town, and might as well put a light in as well.

Hey Carl, are you reading this? What sort of paint did you use? I've still got some bilgecoat around, but I might just use topside paint. It's not like I'm going to go in and fair the whole area, so perfection isn't critical here.

I'm also wondering how you went about cutting the lip around the new opening back to make room for the edging. I can't really think of a convenient way to do that. I suppose a circ saw set to a shallow depth would work along the straight part, but not sure how I'll get to the other areas.

I've also got to admit I've never really done any glass work. Any recommendations for easy/cheap ways to attach the floor supports, floor, and the vertical panel at the back under the footrest area?

[Titan]

Well I think I'm convinced I am going to do a "Carl Cabin" as well. Almost every time I attempt to get something from under the bow I think about buying a bigger boat. Following Carl's progress makes you want that space. Thank's Carl for the extensive progress reports. Pretty soon there won't be many tubs left on the board. People will start to think they came like that.

[zelatore]

Bringing this one back from the dead...

I've been pretty much ignoring the boat for the last year for various reasons, the biggest being I can't afford to build a new motor right now so I don't feel like doing anything else to it.

But there's no racing on TV this weekend (MotoGP was supposed to record last night, but instead I got 2 episodes of 'American trucker'!?!) and Michele's back home visiting family. Then I noticed that the weather is just about perfect for working outside and though 'hmmmm....I'm always bitching that it's either too hot or to cold' and decided to dust off the Donzi and see what I could do.

Went ahead and finished all the cutting and fitted the cross-bars above the tank as well as the ply floor all the way to the bow. Technically the area fwd of the tank already has a ply floor, but to get the new piece to lay flush would have required cutting or grinding a lot of material so it was just easier to make a fwd piece as well.

I also cut back the inner layer and coring material from the edge of the footrest so I will be able to trim it with push-on edging. To protect the exposed core I covered it with some thin epoxy, then hit any bigger gaps with thickened epoxy. I'm now waiting on that to set up for a few hours before I crawl back in and paint the overhead with a white poly top-sides paint and fit the aft filler that will keep everything from sliding into no-man's land when I accelerate.

[zelatore]

I also need to figure out how I'm going to attach the new floor. For now, it's just sitting there. I had planned to glass it in, and I have some materials for doing so, but I'm thinking it might be better to leave it removable. I may just glue it down with blobs of 4200 in several places. I know it will get bounced around like crazy up there, but it's not really likely to go anyplace or be under a lot of stress so I think that should hold it well enough. The unfinished edges would be covered by the carpet, so I'm not worried about getting a smooth transition from the floor to the hull sides.

I'll price out having my local shop make a carpet for me, but I may just stay with the penny pinching and put in some simply glue-down gray carpet like I used in my last run-about a few years ago. I probably still have some left over if the mice having eaten all of it out in the shed.

[gcarter]

I've thought about this a lot over the last three years or so.
I'm not attaching my floor to the hull. Instead, I bolted two 2 X 2 X 1/4 aluminum angles to the stringers. You can sort of see them in this tank foaming picture;

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=62809&stc=1&d=1302306081

The idea is to screw the floor to the angles on the stringers instead of connecting it to the hull.
I'm concerned that the edge of the ply on the hull would form a hard spot and just "MIGHT" cause damage to the hull while running hard. I'm not going to take any chances w/it. So my floor will be just clear of the hull w/a "rail" around the perimeter. Also the floor will remain removeable.
It wont be as large, but it will be a good storage area that was absolutely useless before.

[yeller]

I also need to figure out how I'm going to attach the new floor. For now, it's just sitting there. I had planned to glass it in, and I have some materials for doing so, but I'm thinking it might be better to leave it removable...

I'll price out having my local shop make a carpet for me, but I may just stay with the penny pinching and put in some simply glue-down gray carpet like I used in my last run-about a few years ago. I probably still have some left over if the mice having eaten all of it out in the shed.I screwed 1x4's to the stringers and screwed the floor to the 1x4's. No glue, no glass. Outboard of the stringers I used pour-foam under the floor (for support).

You're not being cheap by using glue down carpet. That's the route I took....and I have the equipment to custom make a fitted carpet if I wanted. The glue-down looks great when it's in. There are some pretty good spray can glues available in most automotive stores that work great for this.

[gcarter]

I screwed 1x4's to the stringers and screwed the floor to the 1x4's. No glue, no glass. Outboard of the stringers I used pour-foam under the floor (for support).

You're not being cheap by using glue down carpet. That's the route I took....and I have the equipment to custom make a fitted carpet if I wanted. The glue-down looks great when it's in. There are some pretty good spray can glues available in most automotive stores that work great for this.

Glen, I figured you'd show up and comment, so I almost spelled it "ALUMINIUM" just to make you feel at home!

[yeller]

Glen, I figured you'd show up and comment, so I almost spelled it "ALUMINIUM" just to make you feel at home!Thanks George. I noticed you spelled it wrong, but I didn't want to say anything. :wink:

I mentioned the pour-foam because you said you didn't want to attach the floor to the hull sides. The foam adds great support with virtually no weight. I didn't attach mine to the hull either. I only used 3/8" plywood, but it is still strong enough to hold more than my weight doing it this way. I did need to reinforce the floor between the stringers, but a few cut up hockey sticks did the trick.

[Fishermanjm]

Yeller, is that the prop logo on the engine cover? im waiting for one to be made for the underside on my engine cover project

[zelatore]

Hadn't considered the ply against the hull potentially causing a stress-point. Mine is right up against the hull.

I've got the floor out right now while I put on a few heavy coats of paint to help seal it up. I'll try to get a good pic of what the bilge looks like under there - it's a mess of gelled foam. Nasty stuff; I hated digging it out. Chisel and hammer work. It would make for a PITA trying to attach aluminium ( :wink: ) or wood supports to the stringers.

[yeller]

Hadn't considered the ply against the hull potentially causing a stress-point. Mine is right up against the hull.

I've got the floor out right now while I put on a few heavy coats of paint to help seal it up. I'll try to get a good pic of what the bilge looks like under there - it's a mess of gelled foam. Nasty stuff; I hated digging it out. Chisel and hammer work. It would make for a PITA trying to attach aluminium ( :wink: ) or wood supports to the stringers.I had no problem attaching to my stringers. There was foam outboard of the stringers, but none inboard. Is your tank foamed in?

Like George, I had considered the possibility of causing a stress point by attaching the floor to the hull and decided against it.

Fishermanjm, yes that is the prop logo on my engine hatch. I have the drawings in numerous formats. Send me a PM if you want a copy.

[zelatore]

I had no problem attaching to my stringers. There was foam outboard of the stringers, but none inboard. Is your tank foamed in?

Like George, I had considered the possibility of causing a stress point by attaching the floor to the hull and decided against it.

Fishermanjm, yes that is the prop logo on my engine hatch. I have the drawings in numerous formats. Send me a PM if you want a copy.

Hmmm....now that I look at it again, you're right. There's clear access on the inside of the stringers.

No, the tank isn't foamed in. Plastic tank, strapped in. I actually made wood supports to sit on top of the straps. The fun part is that they aren't sitting flat, so I had to angle the supports to get a level floor.

I think this is the plan. I've even got the materials on-hand, so it's a no cost build. Sweet!

[Rumblefish]

Nice update Don.. my 87 seats dont swivel.. and needless to say.. that may be my next move.. Look forward to the final Pics!

[zelatore]

After thinking about it, I decided to go ahead and break out the grinder, chisel, etc to level the excess foam and resin above the stringers so I could lay the ply flush with the existing piece fwd of the tank.

First, a couple pics showing what the mess looks like. This is after considerable foam/gel/resin had already been removed to get near to low enough.

[zelatore]

And then with my new supports glued & screwed in place (4200 + #10x2.5 screws)

[zelatore]

And with the new floor in place. In addition to the supports attached to the stringers I've got a lateral support at the front and back of the floor. In this pic, the fwd end is still sitting a bit proud of the existing ply, so I'll break out the grinder and take off a little more before screwing it in the last time.

[zelatore]

I've got the aft bulkhead made but it's not attached at this point. I want to take a little off the ends so it doesn't contact the hull and create a potential stress point.

Not too much left to do at this point. I'd probably have it finished if I hadn't decided to start over on the mounting. Trim the fwd edge to get the floor flush; trim the ends of the bulkhead and attach, then paint everything gloss white to brighten it up. I'll do all the sides and overhead as well as the floor even though I'll eventually cover it with carpet.

I'll finish up next weekend; I've had about enough crawling around and breathing dust during the last couple days. Need to recover for a while by working on the other boat...:boggled:

[yeller]

Alright, now I see what you're talking about when you were concerned about having to remove foam. It looks to me like you are laying the floor directly on the stringers, so your floor will actually be lower than the floor in the cockpit.

I installed my floor so it is flush with the cockpit floor, and angles/slopes down to be flush with the factory bit of plywood forward of the tank. Because I did it this way, I didn't have to remove any foam. I needed it to be flush with the cockpit floor because I completely removed the foot rest in the center.

[yeller]

... then paint everything gloss white to brighten it up. Definitely install a light up there. I stole that idea from Carl. I picked mine up for less than $10 at a discount store and it makes a huge difference when up there looking for....whatever.

[zelatore]

Alright, now I see what you're talking about when you were concerned about having to remove foam. It looks to me like you are laying the floor directly on the stringers, so your floor will actually be lower than the floor in the cockpit.

I installed my floor so it is flush with the cockpit floor, and angles/slopes down to be flush with the factory bit of plywood forward of the tank. Because I did it this way, I didn't have to remove any foam. I needed it to be flush with the cockpit floor because I completely removed the foot rest in the center.

Interesting. I hadn't considered cutting the rest of the center opening out flush with the cockpit and tying it all together like that. Might be a tad easier to snake in there since you have more height, but it's narrower as well. I usually end up half sideways and use more of the width getting up there. Looks like you could also stand to put a small net or something across the opening to keep stuff from sliding aft under way.

I'm satisfied with the way it's going for now. But since I'm not glassing it in, I could change it later if I wanted fairly easily.

One of these days maybe we'll run together again and we can compare them side by side. :yes:

[yeller]

I don't seem to have a problem with stuff sliding out, but then I did install nets up there (on the side of the hull) to hold life jackets, floaties, etc.

I took a slightly different route and made my foot rests removable. I wanted to keep a higher foot rest to help hide the "junk in the front", but be able to remove them if I wanted greater access for any reason. Your way will allow for far easier access though. Titan (on this site) did it your way and I have seen his. I liked it. It made me think.

Pros and cons to both ways.

[Ghost]

Lots of cool ideas here. Yeller's netting looks great. On Z's boat, with the 4-inch-plus "curb" across the bottom of the entrance, you could easily have a full-width cargo net attached that just hooked in the upper corners when deployed, but stowed away behind the curb when wanted. And/or, you could make a bin with dividers out of the curb, say maybe 3 inches fore-and-aft, for TONS of small items. If you're on hands and knees doing the western roll (video for explanation) western roll (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxKCrDNqXmI) technique of entry, clearing 4 to 6 inches of distance shouldn't change much as you go over the curb. And think of the convenience for glasses cases, wallets, phones, suntan lotion, sternlight, flipflops, etc, with a 5 foot x 5 in x 3 in storage area so accessible.

Yeller, I like the removable footrest idea. Looks to me like they don't fold down, but I would think if you wanted, you could replace the metal brackets on the bottom with hinges, and make them quickly convert-able.

Another thing I always thought would be an interesting option for these sorts of spaces would be some seatbacks. Imagine Yeller's footrests, but angled the other way, sloping upward and back from the "cabin" floor. Like the back of a pool chaise, though not as long and a bit steeper. Such that a person could sit like you would in a bowrider, legs out flat but with a backrest. I *think* the Spitfire may actually have had something like this from the factory.

But unless you had a hatch or vent (probably ain't gonna happen) or a really nice fan, these would likely be useless in really hot weather. Just too stuffy. But maybe out in the cold water where you guys are, such things could be nice, relaxing seats.

Hmmmmmm....

[zelatore]

Western Role....that's a good one.

I've got about 6" vertical to my footrest, so plenty of height to keep stuff from coming back at you. But putting some netting along the fwd (inside) edge of it might be a good idea for small things like you suggested.

Mostly I'm looking to stash a cooler out of the sun, life jackets, towels, fenders, and likely my anchor, though I currently have it secured to the engine room bulkhead. Not sure which will be easier to access, but most likely I'll move it to the bow as well.

There is enough vertical room to make some backrests and sit up there, but I can't imagine you'd want to do it. Not the most comfortable area, or the best view. :wink: I haven't measured the vertical clearance yet, but I can mostly sit upright at the aft end of the space. Just have to duck my head a little. I figure if I ever end up crawling in there when I'm anchored out, I'll just use some life jackets or my Dr. Dan soft cooler or some rolled up towels or something for a pillow and live with it. I'm not planning any Carl-esqe overnighters. That's what the Carver is for. At least once I get done re-plumbing the head (this week's project - a special kind of joy)

[gcarter]

I'm lowering the foot rest, that's all. I'm going to try to do it utilizing the existing upper edge of the glass though.
I hadn't thought about nets, seems like a good idea though.
I was sort of planning on a cooler and maybe a large plastic box or boxes to store stuff im.
Here in Florida you'd never consider putting people up there for any reasson other than a bad rain storm. It's just too hot, humid, and too many critters.

[Carl C]

You will not regret this mod!! Just keep it light and simple and make it look factory. I used spray paint but the fumes and overspray was bad so I'd recommend brushing the paint on. Keep us posted. Good start!

Scot, I don't know any way to move the hoses. You do not want to build a complete raised floor because of the weight. I think you have to live with the hoses where they are. This mainly opens up stowage space with the option of occasionally sleeping in there.

[zelatore]

I'm lowering the foot rest, that's all. I'm going to try to do it utilizing the existing upper edge of the glass though.
I hadn't thought about nets, seems like a good idea though.
I was sort of planning on a cooler and maybe a large plastic box or boxes to store stuff im.
Here in Florida you'd never consider putting people up there for any reasson other than a bad rain storm. It's just too hot, humid, and too many critters.

Sounds like you're planing to cut the footrest down about the same as I did, which I believe is also the same as Carl's. In the first two posts you can see where I cut mine, pretty much even with the existing notch for the ski locker.

Seems to work pretty well. Still plenty of footrest height, but low enough to get up there for storage.