starting confusion

[Donzi Vol]

After reading Phil S's thread, I thought I would go ahead and throw my problem out there as well. The thing with mine, is that I thought we knew what the problem was, and then suddenly that all changed.

So here's the situation. Several weeks ago I took my 18C out for a run down the river. She cranked right up (never had a starter problem before) and ran great. Motor was roaring beautifully down the river. Once I got down to the waterfront where I was to meet up with RedDog, I turned off the motor so that I could call him. That was the last time I got the motor started. When I would try to crank it, it would just make this awful grinding noise as if you were rolling gravel around in your hands. Pretty quickly I wore the battery down and that was the end of my boating for that day.

I talked to BlownCrewCab (my usual consult on all things Donzi) and he said to check and see if the belts were moving while I was cranking, and if not then there's a good chance there's a bald spot on the flywheel. I did so, and sure enough, no moving belts. With cold weather coming and the busy season at work, I decided to just deal with the situation come spring. So, to make it easy and timely I just took it down to Sea Ray of Knoxville and let them winterize it. I told him the situation and explained that more than likely it wasn't going to crank for them, so they would just have to pull the plugs. He said, "ok, but I'll get them to try starting it anyway." I just went along with it knowing it wouldn't happen without some major work.

Well a few days later he calls to let me know that it was finished and ready for me to pick up. He also informed me that they got it started. He said that the battery was dead, so they put a charger on it and it started right up...no problems. All I could say was, "well...thanks"

So my question is how come one minute the belts aren't turning and it's making a horrible noise, and the next they are cranking it with no problem and running it on the hose to fog the motor and run the antifreeze?

Thanks in advance for the input.

-David

[gcarter]

A missing or worn tooth, or teeth on the ring gear, and also maybe the starter gear.
If you move everything along, it may work just fine.
It requires an engine removal to fix (if it's the ring gear), but the cost is really low. A ring gear is very inexpensive and the replacement is very easy.

[gcarter]

We definately have fewer opportunities of places, and subject matter to post on.......
I wonder if this is permanent or temporary????
I can live w/it either way.

[fogducker III]

As stated above, could be ring gear and/or starter bendix gear, pull the easy one first and check. if it happens to be the ring gear the wear will be one side of the gear, remove the ring gear from the flywheel, flip it over and you are good for a few more years...:smile: EVERY worn ring gear I have seen has had the wear on one side of the teeth and not even half-way through the "meat" of the teeth, some don't like flipping the ring gear but I have personally never heard of any problems, just an idea....:wink:

[VetteLT193]

didn't you have no or a bad alternator? I can't remember if it was you or not.

Either way, a weak battery can do some pretty strange things to starters.

[MOP]

We definately have fewer opportunities of places, and subject matter to post on.......
I wonder if this is permanent or temporary????
I can live w/it either way.

Hope not!

[Donzi Vol]

didn't you have no or a bad alternator? I can't remember if it was you or not.

Either way, a weak battery can do some pretty strange things to starters.

I did have a bad alternator, but replaced it a while back with a new one. So I don't think that's the problem. Good call, though.

Thanks for the input, guys. I'll definitely give those a look. Hopefully I can fix the problem without pulling the motor :crossfing:

[silverghost]

This could be many things~
Low battery
Stripped& worn ring gear.
Starter drive gear
OR~
The starter drive (small gear and throw-out bendix & clutch assembly on the working end of the starter) The one way clutch is in a round "Can" behind the small starter gear.
These starter drive clutches have a ball or roller bearing one way sprag type clutches that allows the starter to free-wheel after the engine fires but before you release the starter key-switch..
If these fail the starter will turn ~
BUT
The engine will not rotate.
When they fail they often sound like a can of marbles !
Just another possibility!

[seano]

A weak battery could cause the starter to not fully engage and cause the grinding you were hearing.

[Tom Smith]

Last time out with my 18' I shut it down to talk to a guy in another boat and when I tried to start it it was stone dead. Nothing, Nada. I was in the middle of the river and thought I would have to get towed back. Just for giggles I lifted the rear seat cushion, pulled the hatch cover, and accessed the battery. Low and behold both the positive and negative terminals were loose. Loose enough to lift off by hand. I took out my tool kit and tightened them both. Whala, she fired right up. How many times have I run the boat since picking it up from Mikes shop in Titusville. Eight or ten at least, and it always started. Finally there just wasn't enough contact and it failed. Someone in Florida never tightened the cables when we took it for the test run. I am amazed it took this long to crap out. .
If you heard a clicking sound when you tried to start yours it was probably the bendix not fully engaging. Low battery or bad terminal connection can cause that. Plus, even though you put a new alternator on it doesn't always mean that one was good. I put a new one on my MG Midget, about 3 hours worth of work, to find out the new one was bad. Off it came and I took it back and got another one. That one worked. So, get the alternator checked before pullin the whole thing apart. Plus be sure the cables are tight on the battery.

[Donzi Vol]

Thanks for the replies everybody! I believe I have my work cut out for me in the coming months. That's cool though, since I need something to keep me busy other than business!

Anyway, I will check the terminals, battery, and alternator. The thing is, all of those have been tested in the recent past and were a-ok. But at least now I know what to look at if it's not an electric/charge problem.

All the best
-David