Broke block, fix it?

[f_inscreenname]

Can this be fixed or is it shot?
It's a 454 block. It's split for about 4" just under the the head bolt hole. On both sides of it. I've been told yes and no. What do you think?

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/2177/73823696.jpg

[BlownCrewCab]

It froze, My boss had a small block chevy cracked in the same place, he fixed it (with JB Weld) and raced it 7 or 8 years before retireing it.

Before Repairing it I'd put a head on and torque it down and see if it opens the gap any, if it does I think it's scrap. if not it's just the water jacket and it's no big deal..

[gcarter]

It could be welded w/a nickel rod.
My dad, before he retired, did a lot of cast iron repair like this.

[mrfixxall]

Can this be fixed or is it shot?
It's a 454 block. It's split for about 4" just under the the head bolt hole. On both sides of it. I've been told yes and no. What do you think?

http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/2177/73823696.jpg


pressure test it first,it thats the only leak then its up to you,other leaks could develop later on..also what about the heads? gen 5 or 6?

[BUIZILLA]

you may find that using a stud instead of a bolt in that hole will lessen the stress area... still not sure i'd chance it though...

[gcarter]

Back to welding, I once saw a 300 CI Ford 6 cylinder block w/a head made from parts of two 392 Chrysler hemi heads welded together in an oven. It just so happened that the bore centers of the Ford and Chrysler were identical.
It was a very impressive engine. Also very dependable.

[MOP]

Don't bother there are plenty of 454 blocks around, a junkie should have a rebuild-able core for cheap. No sense in running something you may worry about.

[f_inscreenname]

Sad story. I bought these motors from a guy that had them rebuilt and never ran them except for initial start up. After that they didn’t drain the one and this is the result. I never even noticed it until I had them up on a stand in the garage. Just looked like 4 tiny rust drips about an inch long. I thought Naaaaaaaa, cant be, so I whip out the grinder and take the paint off and you could see a hair line crack.
Over the weekend I pulled the motor down and to see how bad it is. This looks to be the only damage. I would like to weld it up but like some said I’m not sure of the rest is any good and I don’t want to have it welded up and then send it out the be pressure tested to have it fail and wasted that money I could have been spending on a block. So it’s a catch 22. I got a buddy that says pitch it. I’ve got others that say to weld it up and run it. I wouldn’t be all that bad except for I have to rent a crane to get the motors in the boat. Second thing is I plan on nothing but cam and intake, distributor (maybe carb’s down the line) and some small other touches but I want to keep the motors as much as original as possible. I want to be able to run these motors for long periods with out worry. I mean the 19’s motor is pretty sick but after a mile or so it just seems crazy to run them that hard. But at the same time I can have the motor out of it in about an hour. I need motors that will go the long haul. So that’s why I’m a little skittish about this whole thing.
What concerned me is it looks like the ice didn’t push out there but up and split the deck from the wall ever so lightly. It’s the one cylinder that concerns me the most looks like I can see something but I cant tell. I remember there was something I could spray on it and see the cracks if there was any but I cant remember what it is.
Also;
The crack is just below the threads for the head bolt so a stud would not change anything in the torque.
It has Gen V heads and I’m keeping them. I did heads the last time (the 19). Unless you are rolling over 5 grand they are not really worth it.

[olredalert]

-------A lot of frozen blocks also crack down in the cam tunnel as well and those cracks are basicly impossible to get to. I was going to have a block welded one time and then thought about it and decided that I would have never have been able to take that engine above 2500 RPM again without worrying constantly. That was for a car where you have a choice about RPM. In a DONZI or in this case Nova "X-raceboat" environment you dont have a choice about low or high RPM,,,its always HIGH or at least higher than 2500!!! Your choice, but I definetly wouldnt........Mr.Bill :garfield:

[f_inscreenname]

The pain, THE PAIN!
I knew I would need a new block! :mad::nilly::mad::nilly::censored::banghead: :confused:http://www.supernova19.com/forumcw/Smileys/classic/dead.gif.............:shades:Alright now that's over.
Anyone got a Gen V block?http://www.supernova19.com/forumcw/Smileys/classic/help.gif

[silverghost]

There is a product called Dye-Tell (also other brands)
It is a two part spay can crack detection system.
First a spray can of red dye is sprayed on engine after cleaning oil & paint from the area! Let this sit for 15 min or so then wipe off excess surface dye.
Next spray on the second can of white devloper powder.
If you have any cracks they should show up as red in 15 min or so in the white powder!
NAPA, WW GRAINGER sells this easy do-it-yourself two can system. About $35.last time I used it!
It works very well indeed!
You can always get block mangafluxed also!
NAPA also sells several types of UV Dye that you can add to cooling water, oil,transmission fluid freon, etc. that will show-up a leak or crack when exposed to a UV black light! The crack will actually glow a bright neon color!
I used this system this spring to detect an internally leaking BBC marine manifold!
Worked very well !
I had a rare un-obtainable 1927 Rolls~Royce Phantom I head repaired after finding the crack with this system!
If your cracks are only in the water jackets there is a mechanical process called stitching that uses a series of special screw-in plugs that pull the crack together. Each special screw in plug slghtly overlaps the prior plugs! There is a company that does this and this system works very well!
Do a web search for Casting crack stitch repair!
If you use Marine Tex or JB Weld yourself you should drill a small hole at each end of the cack/s to stabilize it & prevent the crack from running & getting longer!
There is also a product called liquid glass (Sodium Silicate) that can be poured into an engine water jacket to fill & seal the crack!
Old Timers used this with some success~ But I think it is only a Bnd`~Aid.
Most auto stores sell BLOCK & HEAD SEAL that contains this sodium silicate & metal particles( Usually Brass, iron, or Aluminum powder) Block repair -in -a-can.
Another idea is to drill & tap holes on each side of the offending crack and use a repair plate of 1/4" steel with a good gasket material under it.
Fasten the steel repair plate with gasket on top of the crack with two small machine bolts!
From working for many years with pre 1916 Antique cars with castings & cracks that are in castings made from "Unobtainium" , impossible to find parts you find yourself fixing all sorts of casting cracks.
Welding or brazing with iron or nickel rods is a tough job.
It can be done~
But heat from welding can do far more damage to the casting
when you subject a casting to the extreme localized heat needed you often have further cracking of the iron~ especially from the fast cooling that happens after the welding process.
Some casting repair experts put the entire casting or block in an oven before braze welding then quickly put casting back in the oven and very slowly over many hours bring the temp back to room temp! A process called annealing! Just like glass blowers do.
You need a real casting repair expert to braze weld cast iron!
Don't let just any welder attempt it!
Good Luck!
It just may pay to investigate a crack repair further !
If not that bad, & in water jacket only, I might repair it.

[Cuda]

I'd just get another 454 block. I just asked my dad the other day about welding cast iron. He said you could, but you would need to drill holes on both ends of the cracks to keep the crack from becoming bigger.

[olredalert]

------Brad,,,All your repair methods are well known and good for something like you have talked about (unobtainium). Im not calling you out at all, but you are talking about engines that rarely go over 2000 RPM. With the abundance of these 454 blocks around I wouldnt spend a dime on this block that I could never trust under harsh conditions. Remember where a boat is,,,out on the water somewhere!!! Cant just pull over to the curb. I could possibly make a case if these were the original 409s or 427FEs or what ever was in the boat as Brownie raced it, but even then I just wouldnt trust a repaired block in a boat at sustained 4000 to 5000 RPM for any decent period of time. What fun is a fast boat if you are constantly worrying about the fast part.
------F-in,,,I would and will if needed find you a block up here but there are so many of these around that Im sure you can find one in short order. It may seem like a big thing right now but You will be back to square one soon, Im betting......Mr.Bill

[Cuda]

Changing out an engine in a boat is much harder than in a car. No way I'd take the chance on having to do it twice. 454 blocks are a dime a dozen. They have been making them for over 40 years.

[A2VeeDub]

I remember there was something I could spray on it and see the cracks if there was any but I cant remember what it is.


http://www.kpg-industrial.com/products/qa_inspector_penetrant_s00744/

Use this stuff a lot for weld inspections, finding leaks in tanks, and stress cracks.

Had a woodruff key shear off the other day. Key was completely polished in the shaft. Couldn't begin to make out where it was with the naked eye. This stuff showed the whole outline clearly.

[silverghost]

I tend to agree wih everyone that it might be safer, easier, and less costly in the long run to replace the engine block.
I was just trying to give him & everyone some ideas on possible crack detection and repair methods!

[f_inscreenname]

Looks like I am looking for a block.
I like the idea of fixing it and saving it from the scrap heap but I don’t think the local shops have an oven to do it right. “Stitching it” sounds good until you look at the location. Like said it looks like it pushed the deck off the side wall so the stitch would come to the top of the deck. Oh, did I mention that the other side has the same crack? IMHO fixing it after reading this thread would be a last ditch effort when all else failed but there is still options so far and no reason to risk it.
I going to need a gen V block to keep everything I have now and to match the other motor. Remember there are two into the same shaft so I’m trying to keep them as close as possible. Also this is the reverse rotation motor so everything from the broken block motor has to go back in the new block. I do plan on running them over 2500 for long periods so I don’t want to have to be biting my nails the whole way. One of the reasons I like these Gen V’s is the high torque #’s they put out for the low RPM’s they run at. Something needed for the long haul. The reason I don’t want “flat out” motors is because I plan on doing a poker run or two or just maybe a couple very long rides. Who knows but like said by me and others, pulling and installing these motors will be some real work so IMHO it’s better to be safe than sorry.
So I’m in the market for a GEN V 454 BB block. Preferred that it is standard size so I can reuse my pistons and keep it the same as the other motor. I am open to any offers so if you see it post it or you can email me at Mark@SuperNova19.com
There is a guy that has one in Sayre, PA for 450.00 but it’s local pick up only. It’s a bit to far away for me, 250 miles from my house in Maryland. Anyone coming south from that area?
PS Thanks for all your help no matter what side you are on. For all that said to fix it, just look at it as I *****ed out.:wink:

[mrfixxall]

i have 2 gen 7.4 gen 6 blocks...92-95 chevy truck blocks will work als.

[f_inscreenname]

i have 2 gen 7.4 gen 6 blocks...92-95 chevy truck blocks will work als.

It will??? Are 5 and 6 the same?? Want to make a donation??:kingme: