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fogducker III
10-09-2009, 09:39 AM
I swapped out my old worn out Merc controls for a set of Uflex. The main reason for the swap was the Merc controls were getting "sloppy" and the "up" trim switch was intermitent.....

New controls are great, good feel and response, BUT the damn "up" on the trim is still iffy...........everything works great in the driveway and then out on the water the trim up is fine at idle and low rpms but once up on a plane and rpms over about 3000, NOTHING on the trim up...?? If I come off the plane and lower rpms, I get up trim back...? Any ideas?

I have removed, checked, cleaned and replaced all connections and did not find anything apparently amiss....??:confused:

BUIZILLA
10-09-2009, 09:49 AM
wires are pinched where they go thru the handle to the body of the shifter itself...

happened to me... :nilly:

fogducker III
10-09-2009, 10:01 AM
wires are pinched where they go thru the handle to the body of the shifter itself...

happened to me... :nilly:

Exactly what I thought was wrong with the old controls, wiring was fine when I took them out and with the new controls I was very aware when routing the wires, the weird thing is the "intermitent" part.

I do agree though Buiz, all the signs point towards the wires getting pinched when the throttle/control handle is pushed forward to raise rpms.....but I am 100% sure there is no binding at the control lever...

BUIZILLA
10-09-2009, 10:16 AM
there is a small slotted channel for the wires to transition from the handle to the base thru the rotating arm,,,, if the wires aren't EXACTLY in the chanel then they will get pinched... my drive started to raise as I accelerated, now that's an eye opener...

fogducker III
10-09-2009, 10:35 AM
there is a small slotted channel for the wires to transition from the handle to the base thru the rotating arm,,,, if the wires aren't EXACTLY in the chanel then they will get pinched... my drive started to raise as I accelerated, now that's an eye opener...

I hear ya, that would be some 'pucker" factor!

On these controls there is a 'clip" that the wires run through that then go through the slotted channel, I have checked and checked again and are sure the wires are routed right and not binding or getting pinched.

I was told by a friend that the Merc trim pumps have some sort of 'anti-over heating" switch/solenoid in the base of the motor??? Anyone know anything about this? He says it stops the motor from over heating if the trim is up or down too long...? If this is faulty it "might" shut the trim down under certain conditions...?:confused:

Conquistador_del_mar
10-09-2009, 10:36 AM
I swapped out my old worn out Merc controls for a set of Uflex. The main reason for the swap was the Merc controls were getting "sloppy" and the "up" trim switch was intermitent.....

New controls are great, good feel and response, BUT the damn "up" on the trim is still iffy...........everything works great in the driveway and then out on the water the trim up is fine at idle and low rpms but once up on a plane and rpms over about 3000, NOTHING on the trim up...?? If I come off the plane and lower rpms, I get up trim back...? Any ideas?

I have removed, checked, cleaned and replaced all connections and did not find anything apparently amiss....??:confused:

Is it possible that your trim pump is not able to supply enough pressure to raise the drive when under the increased load of the faster speeds? It would be almost impossible to know if the pump was running but not supplying enough pressure unless you ran a temporary set of wires with something as simple as a light to the up side of the solenoid to tell you that the pump was indeed on. Just a thought. Bill

gold-n-rod
10-09-2009, 10:40 AM
Bad trim sensor?? They get water in them and get flaky or the wires thru the gimble housing might be going tit up. How does it operate if you try to use your trailer switch to raise the drive while under way?

fogducker III
10-09-2009, 10:49 AM
Is it possible that your trim pump is not able to supply enough pressure to raise the drive when under the increased load of the faster speeds? It would be almost impossible to know if the pump was running but not supplying enough pressure unless you ran a temporary set of wires with something as simple as a light to the up side of the solenoid to tell you that the pump was indeed on. Just a thought. Bill

Good point Bill, however, last time out I got a friend to drive and I stuck my head in the bilge and got him to attempt to trim up while under way, the pump was not running, it appeared that there was no power to the pump at that point, I will however try that again with a test light and make sure, thanks.

fogducker III
10-09-2009, 10:57 AM
Bad trim sensor?? They get water in them and get flaky or the wires thru the gimble housing might be going tit up. How does it operate if you try to use your trailer switch to raise the drive while under way?

I don't have a Trim Limit sender or a Trim Limiter switch, nor do I have a trailering switch....:eek:

My boat came like this, the trim/tilt switch brings the motor up high enough to trailer and I only trim it up, when it works, until the prop gets loose and then down a little for the best performance. I must admit, when I first got the boat I was concerned it did not have either of the two round plastic sensors/switches on the side of the gimbal, but after dealing with numerous of them on Alpha set-ups, kinda glad they were not there!

I am really not sure if I need them as long as I keep trimming the motor up to the "happy spot" that I know where it is by instinct now...:wink:


Things are kinda pointing to the trim pump motor......:confused:

mrfixxall
10-09-2009, 12:51 PM
I don't have a Trim Limit sender or a Trim Limiter switch, nor do I have a trailering switch....:eek:

My boat came like this, the trim/tilt switch brings the motor up high enough to trailer and I only trim it up, when it works, until the prop gets loose and then down a little for the best performance. I must admit, when I first got the boat I was concerned it did not have either of the two round plastic sensors/switches on the side of the gimbal, but after dealing with numerous of them on Alpha set-ups, kinda glad they were not there!

I am really not sure if I need them as long as I keep trimming the motor up to the "happy spot" that I know where it is by instinct now...:wink:


Things are kinda pointing to the trim pump motor......:confused:


Do you hear any kind of a click? their may be a trim solenoid?

gold-n-rod
10-09-2009, 04:44 PM
up to the "happy spot" that I know where it is by instinct now...:wink:

That instinct makes my wife happy, too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :wink:

fogducker III
10-09-2009, 05:27 PM
Do you hear any kind of a click? their may be a trim solenoid?


I will try and listen for a click, when should I hear it? When the leg is max trim...:confused:

Is this a solenoid in the trim motor?


BTW. Your a pig....:wink:

gcarter
10-09-2009, 06:04 PM
There're two solenoids on the trim pump motor bracket.
You'll hear it any time the pump is enmgaged or disengaged.

gcarter
10-09-2009, 06:14 PM
I just read Bill's response. I think he's onto something.
The two solenoids may be weak, the motor may be weak, there's also a large fuse in the wiring...it may be corroded.
For that matter, any of the wiring may be corroded...there's lots of connections and these things're always located in the bilge.

RickR
10-09-2009, 06:22 PM
+1 weak solonoid or corroded wires.
I would run another + wire (with a switch) to the load side of the correct solonoid and try the trim under load.

ALWAYS CHECK THE GROUND WHEN TROUBLESHOOTING MARINE ELECTRONICS, ESPECIALLY SALT WATER APPLICATIONS.:bonk:

mrfixxall
10-09-2009, 06:48 PM
as stated check connections first! their are 2 types of the solenoids,look at yours first before replacing them, look at the mounting plate,one is flat and sits flat and the other style has a step (raised) mountig plate..



BTW. Your a pig....

I would rather be one then smell like one,which reminds me peeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee u you stink:):):)

Air 22
10-09-2009, 06:56 PM
CK THE CANNON-PLUG CONNECTION ON THE PUMP...CORROSION TAKES PLACE IN THERE...CLEAN THE PLUG AND MALE PINS...I HAD THE SAME ISSUE AFTER I BUMPED THE PLUG..DAMN PUMP DIDNT WORK AT ALL...AFTER WIGGLING IT...I FOUND THE PROBLEM CLEANED AND FIXED IT:wink:....GOOD LUCK!:crossfing:

MOP
10-09-2009, 09:52 PM
Check the grounds, the solenoids have a wire ground not base. Next pull teh main engine harness apart, look at the pings. The pins have a slit in them, carefully with thin blade knife open the slits ever so carefully. I feel over tightening the hose clamp squashes the pins and they can and do cause intermittent issues. Probably time it was checked anyway!

You will not hear the solenoids it a speed, get a long length of wire enough to hook up a volt meter to see if the voltage is getting to the solenoid. Ground the - post connect the long lead to the + post via the long wire.

fogducker III
10-09-2009, 10:11 PM
Thank you boys, I knew I could count on you for a wave of info.....:wink::yes::eek:

I think I understand it is an electrical/connection problem, I have gone throught the connections but not the actual wiring, so will do that tomorrow.

MOP, good point about the actual pin connectors....:wink:


Air 22, that will be a main focus of attention as well, makes sense.....

Mr.Fix, I appreciate your knowledge about this stuff, I will make sure I check which type of solenoid it is, thanks.


BTW. Your wife says you are a bigger swine than I.......:wink:

Brian41
10-10-2009, 06:57 AM
You should be able to look at the volt gauge while running to see voltage drop while trimming to see if the pump is actually running. The solenoids would not pull enough amps to show much of a voltage loose. If voltage drop is the same as when pump is working on trailer I would bet the pump has a low pressure problem.

gcarter
10-10-2009, 09:29 AM
Keep in mind that if you're on the trailer, the pump will only produce whatever power (or pressure) that is required to move the outdrive (i.e., very little).
However, when you're trying to trim up while underway, the pump must produce enough pressure to overcome the thrust of the propellor.
If you have a poor connection, or solenoid, or motor, or ground, it won't happen. The motor will stall.

fogducker III
10-10-2009, 09:38 AM
You should be able to look at the volt gauge while running to see voltage drop while trimming to see if the pump is actually running. The solenoids would not pull enough amps to show much of a voltage loose. If voltage drop is the same as when pump is working on trailer I would bet the pump has a low pressure problem.

Good point Mark, I actually used the volt gauge for that last time out, trim down, gauge drops and leg trims, trim up, no gauge movement, slow the boat down and intermitent gauge movement, this is leading me to believe connection/wiring problem if intermitent right? If it was a pressure/motor problem it would not work at all right??

I have a spare trim motor with tank, mount, solenoids and connections etc. pronanly best to clean it up, check it out and just swap over the two units, I can then check out and rebuild the old one and keep it as a spare, just in case...:wink:


Thanks for everybody's input, I will let you know what I find when I pull the unit out.

flying tomato
10-10-2009, 02:54 PM
I have an 84 Donzi Hornet III withe the EXACT same problem that you describe. Please let me know what you find. I suspect that I will have the same problem. Note: After reading all the info, I suspect that the problems is electrical in nature. My boat did sink at one time, therefore, all my wiring is suspect. Thanks, Flying Tomato

mrfixxall
10-10-2009, 07:38 PM
Cool,glad to have helped..


BTW. Your wife says you are a bigger swine than I.......




which one:) mormons get all the AZZ :tooth:

MOP
10-10-2009, 10:47 PM
Bear in mind the dash voltage gauge will only show the voltage supplied tot he solenoids it will may not show solenoid draw, I have trouble shot this stuff for a lot of years the source is not always the end!