Holman-Moody Question..

[Magicallbill]

For Matty, G.Carter,,Jay Lurie,Bertram Boy,Grizz..
Heck..anyone who is into the older boats.
Just had my 16 winterized and will wax it tomorrow for it's long winter's nap.
As I washed it today, I got to daydreaming about Holman-Moody power and was wondering two things.
1.)Was the HM an option when ordering the Donzi's back then, or were they standard-issue?
2.)Was there a possibility that my 16 was HM powered from the factory? I can't speak for Jerry Eisele, but I don't think the 302 he had in there when we bought it was original.
When researching power options for the boat after we removed the aforementioned 302, my guys contacted Ford and apparently there were no records kept for the original HM engine parts.No computers back then, I guess, and so they indicated to us there was no way to re-create a HM package for my 16.
That bummed me out, as I was wanting a HM Donzi, but we probably have a better engine in the one we built anyway.

OK one more..Do you all have the way to locate that outrageously priced yellow all-original 16 in that Texas showroom? Y'know, the one they wanted 55K for or something like that..

By The Way, Gold-N-Rod brought his for-sale 16 up to Portage Lake Michigan where we vacation this summer, and we had a blast running Jason's 16, my 16 and his all at once..

Hope everyone had a good summer..

[jl1962]

Bill -

I have an original 1967 Donzi Price List which shows no fewer than 12 different power options for a Ski Sporter - only 2 of which were HM. Wonder why they offered so many?

I remember that yellow 16 in Texas - spoke to the broker before purchasing my boat in 2006 and he claimed that the boat had recently sold for "darn near" the asking price! Ahh.....Texas :wink:

Originality aside - I assume we are all better off with what we are currently running although if/when my 302 goes, I might look hard for an original 289. I remember the tail end of a conversation at the Fall Picnic where someone, somewhere knew where there was an original 289 engine.....Matty? Scott?

Post some more pix of your boat, Bill.......:yes:

-JAY

[BERTRAM BOY]

From what I can gather, there were very few Holman-Moody engines installed in 1967. Most were Eaton Interceptors.
It appears that Donzi didn't start using H-M packages in "full swing" until early 1968.

[f_inscreenname]

That and unless you have everything original and can prove it stay with what you have and buy yourself a couple H/M tags for the bling affect. :wink:

[gold-n-rod]

By The Way, Gold-N-Rod brought his for-sale 16 up to Portage Lake Michigan where we vacation this summer, and we had a blast running Jason's 16, my 16 and his all at once..

Hey Bill, what a great day that was!!!!! If you run across anyone who got pics (or video) of the 3 of us roaring past the dock, post 'em up here; I'd love to see it all over again!!!!!!!!!!!

[Danny]

My 67 -16 had an Eaton Interceptor. Still have the Interceptor but the Eaton drive was replaced I believe in the early 70's with a Volvo 270. May have been done back at the factory, but I'm not sure.
I know the Ford Interceptor was used in police , emergency are other commercial vehicles. What was special or different about them?
Danny

[f_inscreenname]

I know the Ford Interceptor was used in police , emergency are other commercial vehicles. What was special or different about them?
Danny
I'm guessing but I would say cam, maybe some intake mods, maybe their performance heads.

[mattyboy]

the 302 was not available in 67 it wasn't made til 68, a boat in 67 would be an "eaton" badged volvo aq200 powered by an interceptor 289. to the best of my recollection Jerry's 16 was hull 413 mine was 410. both produced in april of 67 in the factory at the same time

my 16 was repowered by Holman Moody Marine long beach california in aug of 69 from a 289 eaton volvo aq200 to a 290hp hm 351W( debut in 69) and a volvo 250 the latest powertrain avail. at that time . there was no transom work done on the drive cut out but the thru hulls were moved up for the 351 which has a taller deck height.

the donzi factory did not tag the H/M motors like holman moody did if the work was done at H/M they added the owners name onto their serial plate on the bell housing it also came with a registration from them as well . the name on the registration paper was stamped on the serial plate


FWIW
alot of pre 68 boats were repowered once the 302 351 and volvo 250 came about they were stronger and more HP. the way to tell between a real " spin to the side and fall off eaton, and an eaton badged volvo is with the serial number or the bolt pattern on the transom.


reviewing all this I let my 16 far too cheap at it was the best documented numbers matching HM 16 I have ever seen

thanks for bringing this up to my attention :rolleyes: ;) :) WTF was I thinking

the paper work can be seen here

http://www.donzi.org/Featuredboat.html

[Magicallbill]

Thanks all for the kickbacks...

MadP..
When we got the boat from Jerry it had the 302. If indeed that wasn't the original powerplant, who knows what happened to the factory engine..Jerry???Chime in if you can...
As much as I would like to attend AOTH, it is in the middle of May over a long weekend, and with the events surrounding the 500 in Indy, it's a big money month for our band. We just can't take off during the biggest month in Indianapolis..
Unfortunately, that's the prob. with all the other events too. They are on weekends, and our time off is Sun/Mon/Tues. Thanks for thinking of me and for all you do for everyone.You are truly a gifted, neat dude.
Bertram Boy/Matty..
We indeed had an Eaton badged Volvo on the boat before Randy(my tech who restored the boat..Not Grizz..)ran it and blew it apart during our initial test. It would seem logical that the original engine was the 289 interceptor, like Danny had. Plus, I remember the Aquamatic Volvo brochure Jerry gave Jason when they came to get the boat in Cincinnatti.
Jay/ Gold-N-Rod
Pics on their way when I round up a computer-savvy person do do it.I'll try to kill two birds and post the Portage shots the day Gold-N-Rod brought his 16 down.

[Magicallbill]

[quote=Magicallbill;542033]Thanks all for the kickbacks...

MadP..
When we got the boat from Jerry it had the 302. If indeed that wasn't the original powerplant, who knows what happened to the factory engine..Jerry???Chime in if you can...
As much as I would like to attend AOTH, it is in the middle of May over a long weekend, and with the events surrounding the 500 in Indy, it's a big money month for our band. We just can't take off during the biggest month in Indianapolis..
Unfortunately, that's the prob. with all the other events too. They are on weekends, and our time off is Sun/Mon/Tues. Thanks for thinking of me and for all you do for everyone.You are truly a gifted, neat dude.
Bertram Boy/Matty..
We indeed had an Eaton badged Volvo on the boat before Randy(my tech who restored the boat..Not Grizz..)ran it and blew it apart during our initial test. It would seem logical that the original engine was the 289 interceptor, like Danny had. Plus, I remember the Aquamatic Volvo brochure Jerry gave Jason when they came to get the boat in Cincinnatti.
Jay/ Gold-N-Rod;
Pics on their way when I round up a computer-savvy person to do it.I'll try to kill two birds and post the Portage shots the day Gold-N-Rod brought his 16 down. I'm not promising the video footage, but I'll try to round it up.

[Speed Racer]

the 302 was not available in 67 it wasn't made til 68, a boat in 67 would be an "eaton" badged volvo aq200 powered by an interceptor 289. to the best of my recollection Jerry's 16 was hull 413 mine was 410. both produced in april of 67 in the factory at the same time

my 16 was repowered by Holman Moody Marine long beach california in aug of 69 from a 289 eaton volvo aq200 to a 290hp hm 351W( debut in 69) and a volvo 250 the latest powertrain avail. at that time . there was no transom work done on the drive cut out but the thru hulls were moved up for the 351 which has a taller deck height.

the donzi factory did not tag the H/M motors like holman moody did if the work was done at H/M they added the owners name onto their serial plate on the bell housing it also came with a registration from them as well . the name on the registration paper was stamped on the serial plate


FWIW
alot of pre 68 boats were repowered once the 302 351 and volvo 250 came about they were stronger and more HP. the way to tell between a real " spin to the side and fall off eaton, and an eaton badged volvo is with the serial number or the bolt pattern on the transom.


reviewing all this I let my 16 far too cheap at it was the best documented numbers matching HM 16 I have ever seen

thanks for bringing this up to my attention :rolleyes: ;) :) WTF was I thinking

the paper work can be seen here

http://www.donzi.org/Featuredboat.html


.... So how does all that figure in to my 1967 V-drive, all Holman Moody with original tags and hardware, now lovingly restored..??? I doubt it was a retrofit, figuring the in the extra hassle for putting the engine in backwards!

Last weekend of Boating in Seattle coming up!

[jl1962]

Garry -

According to my 1967 price sheet, V-Drive boats received 225HP H/M engines. This was also the most costly engine/drive combination - $5540!

-Jay

[vrod02]

One thing left out. H/M blocks are a different casting than standard ford 302's. They were "industrial engines simular to the "mexican" block. Cam grid was special like F-in said.

[Speed Racer]

Garry -

According to my 1967 price sheet, V-Drive boats received 225HP H/M engines. This was also the most costly engine/drive combination - $5540!

-Jay


... Interesting!!! Thanks for the info Jay!

I wish the restoration only cost that much!

[BERTRAM BOY]

Bill,
Are there any number tags on that boat...anywhere? That would be helpful.

[Magicallbill]

ID# 6816414 from Jerry's handwritten bill of sale.
He also wrote on there that it's a '68, but Matty says it's a '67.

[BERTRAM BOY]

That's 4 from Matty's old 16. I'm guessing April or May of 1967.

[mattyboy]

Speed Racer what are the serial numbers on your motor?? 289 or 302??

Bill my 16 was also registered as a 68, alot was left back then to the clerk at motor vehicle, no HIN's needed just a bill of sale or old reg. so it is easy to make a mistake on the year.

when mine was split apart for the tank we found the numbers til then i could not find them. the numbers on the dash were cut into when a speedo was added. the date on the fabco tank was feb of 66 .
my 16 was started and finish in 14 days and if yours is hull 414 they were definetly there together in april of 67. jay's hull 420 was probably just getting the gel sprayed into the mold as my boat left the factory.


also remember guys until the volvo 250 a higher HP H/M motor could really only be mated to a v drive the 250 came out in 68 so that also leads to the boom in H/M power plants.

again it didn't really strike me when i had the 16 , you had H/M editions that were built by donzi at 188th st and then you had H/M editions that were rigged by H/M themselves ( like mine)

**** I definetly let mine go to cheap :(

[Speed Racer]

Speed Racer what are the serial numbers on your motor?? 289 or 302??

Bill my 16 was also registered as a 68, alot was left back then to the clerk at motor vehicle, no HIN's needed just a bill of sale or old reg. so it is easy to make a mistake on the year.

when mine was split apart for the tank we found the numbers til then i could not find them. the numbers on the dash were cut into when a speedo was added. the date on the fabco tank was feb of 66 .
my 16 was started and finish in 14 days and if yours is hull 414 they were definetly there together in april of 67. jay's hull 420 was probably just getting the gel sprayed into the mold as my boat left the factory.


also remember guys until the volvo 250 a higher HP H/M motor could really only be mated to a v drive the 250 came out in 68 so that also leads to the boom in H/M power plants.

again it didn't really strike me when i had the 16 , you had H/M editions that were built by donzi at 188th st and then you had H/M editions that were rigged by H/M themselves ( like mine)

**** I definetly let mine go to cheap :(

I would have to go back and look, which is a P.I.T.A. as the bell housing is behind the back seat and deep in the hull, but I remember 225 in the number, not the C.I. (ie. 289 or 302)...

[mattyboy]

I would have to go back and look, which is a P.I.T.A. as the bell housing is behind the back seat and deep in the hull, but I remember 225 in the number, not the C.I. (ie. 289 or 302)...


the serial number will tell you if it is a 289 or a 302 will also have a production date.

I would imagine that if the 302 was avail. for the 68 auto model year that the motors would have been seen in late summer to fall of 67

[Magicallbill]

Thanks Matt and Bertram..
I'll have to ask Jerry when I talk to him next if he knows what happened to the original 289 in mine.
So, I've tried the search feature here and cannot find the yellow Texas Donzi..Any ideas how to access that thread?

[mattyboy]

Bill,
seriously you know me I am a stickler for originality but after the build you put on the motor and the performance numbers you are getting, the boat is original enough and it it AWESOME


wonder if any 270 hp 289ci HiPo K code motors wound up in a classic ???

[Magicallbill]

If the boat gets your approval, I am satisfied. Thanks again for the H/M insight...

[klink]

If I'm not mistaken the HM 302 was a ford industrial engine. Big valve 351 heads flat top pistons and a 351 cam and 4brl =235hp You probably built a better motor.

[Magicallbill]

I, like Matty hold a lot of stock in having the Donzi's as close to original as possible. It would've been a great satisfaction to be able to have the 1st engine in it and running.
That wasn't possible, so I said, "What the heck, might as well go fast for my 2nd choice.."

My engine was built by Woody's Automotive in Thorntown, Ind.
302 jacked into a 347CID. it has a "Sportsman" Block and the big kick-@#$@ pistons,etc. On the tester(Dyno) it put out 397HP at 6000RPM. Obviously a lot of unusable power with my Volvo drive..Still, much fun, I tell ya....

[Tony]

My engine was built by Woody's Automotive in Thorntown, Ind.
302 jacked into a 347CID. it has a "Sportsman" Block and the big kick-@#$@ pistons,etc. On the tester(Dyno) it put out 397HP at 6000RPM. Obviously a lot of unusable power with my Volvo drive..Still, much fun, I tell ya....

Yes, I understand the unusable power concept, since my old 302 was likely in the same boat...although it probably had less dyno hp. Although top end is limited due to the bulbous nature of the Aquamatics, I bet your boat has a ton of torque/midrange/hole shot capabilities...thus the fun factor! Throttle and thrust was so responsive on my old boat that I could get considerable air off a modest-sized wave just by properly timing the throttle shot. Like you said...much fun. :)

I'm bummed out that I was not available last summer when Randy met up with you on Portage Lake. Sounds like you had a lot of fun... If you are up again next summer I would love to catch a ride in your Ski Sporter, I remember the pics and it looks beautiful.

:beer:

[vrod02]

If I'm not mistaken the HM 302 was a ford industrial engine. Big valve 351 heads flat top pistons and a 351 cam and 4brl =235hp You probably built a better motor.

No on the heads. No on the firing order. No on a 351 cam grind. standard 289 firing order, at least mine all 5 engines I've had. Lee holman confirmed as well.

[Magicallbill]

Exactly right Tony..
Plenty of mid-range..I just shut it off at about 4800 on the tach. Here it's just North of 60 and starting to become a handful to drive.
I should also mention that the 23 Solas that Grizz(Happy Birthday!) chose for us gives us a mid-40's cruise. Funny..you put it in gear in the harbor and your already doing 4MPH at dead-idle.(How many 16's have 23" props??)

Anyway, we will be back at Portage next summer. I used to work on-staff there in the 70's. It's where I took my 1st Donzi ride, where I made many friends and it's a special thing for me and Jason to have re-connected with the place. Our band will be performing there the last Fri & Sat. in July 2010. We'll have both the 16's in the water; Hopefully Randy can come down again and bring his. Please join us..it's too much fun..

[gold-n-rod]

Anyway, we will be back at Portage next summer. I used to work on-staff there in the 70's. It's where I took my 1st Donzi ride, where I made many friends and it's a special thing for me and Jason to have re-connected with the place. Our band will be performing there the last Fri & Sat. in July 2010. We'll have both the 16's in the water; Hopefully Randy can come down again and bring his. Please join us..it's too much fun..

I'll be there. It was fun hanging with y'all in '09. I'm game for '10!!!

If I can swing it, I'll bring my kid. He's playing part time (http://www.myspace.com/alettertoyou) and I'd like for him to see how the real pros work it.