First oil change

[Bobby D]

I'm sure this topic has been discussed before but I would like to hear (your opinions) on what are the pro's and cons of using synthetic oil based on your experiences.
Now for the oil question, my new to me engine grew up on synthetic oil and now has a total of 166 hours on it and it’s time to winterize. I am torn between staying with a synthetic which I have never used or changing over to a fossil oil? I have asked around and so far it's a toss up.
IMO one of the keys to engine life is to change the oil on a regular basis, regardless of the type of oil. Contaminants need to be removed and if you use good quality petroleum based oil and change it like you should; it will do a good job in protecting your engine. I believe that if you use a good grade of oil (which I always have) and change it when you should it becomes a personal choice. That's basically how I feel but there's always that question in the back of your mind.
I know this subject has been beat to death but just humor me because my limited knowledge on this subject may cause me problems down the road. Your input is always appreciated.
Bob
1972 18 2+3 hull
1999 Volvo Penta 5.7 GSi 310 HP
350 GM block
Volvo Penta SX Drive 1.45:1

[silverghost]

As long as the engine was properly broken-in with standard mineral based oil to seat the piston rings I would go with synthetic oil .
Do not use synthetic for the first 100 hours in a new engine as it works too well and will not allow your oil control rings to seat properly.
I found this out first hand with Mobil 1, 20+ years ago when it first came on the US market!
After proper engine Break-in period switch to synthetic ~
You will be glad you did ~ Your engine will be too!
I have seen much better engine protection with it !
I use nothing else !
It will also handle heat much better before breaking down. (not really an issue in most boats)
In my opinion it is worth the extra cost for increased protection!
After all which costs more
Synthetic oil or a new engine?

Brad Hunter BS ME, MBA

[Dr. David Fleming]

Synthetic oils are the way of the future. Although most companies keep the formula secret they are liquid polymar material that is not destroyed by heat and use. Mostly they get dirty and combine with carbon, acids etc. so that changing them is really optional. Mostly you just add to them and change the filter. Mineral oils are traditional but break down with time and use, into their component parts of varnish, sludge, etc. and really have a limited life. Changing mineral oil is very important. Changing synthetic is a luxury. Some of you engineers out there can expand on this.

Here is some basic info. Oil thickness - viscosity is measured by an SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) number such as 10, 20, 30. Chemicals have been developed to make this into a multi viscosity oil such as 20W-50 which acts as a thin oil when cold and thicker when hot. 10W here would relate to its "winter rating." This is an "old school" term telling you how thick it acts when cold cranking the engine in winter - thick oil doesn't lube cold engines. So you want it to act thin when cold and thick when hot - it doesn't get thicker when hot it just acts like a different oil when temperature changes.

More basic info. Detergent or non detergent oil is measured by the API (American Petrolium INstitute) index which is a relative term based on the additive required for a given year car production SA, SB, SC, SD, SG they keep adding an additional rating for each new year of car manufacture where higher standards of addtitive are required. Your owners manual specifies what new additive requirement your new car may use - this is a relative term. SA has less of what the new car requires than SG. Detergents, anti foam agents and other chemicals clean the engine and help it do its job - its an additive thing. Time and exposure to air destroy this - hence the oil change every year.

Diesel engines have an addtional API rating for the extremely high load requirements of that type of engine - if memory serves me right it is somthing like CD, CF etc. So oils may be SD, and CD for example meaning they can be used in both gasoline and diesel engines.

Marine engines run full bore most of the time so you should always check the oil and keep it at max. Use the best oil and it is none too good for your engine. You can't go wrong using what Mercruiser recomends - I use what my engine builder recomended for my 502 MAG MPI engine as it has been rebuilt - Kendall green racing oil - Tyler Crockett builds race motors nationally and I just go with his recomendation - SAE 40 I am guessing - Merc recomends their own oil and I am thinking it is 20W-50 but you should check the service manual. Alway replace your filter with something like Fram or Mercury as it is the lifeguard of your engine - replace it often. By the way your Mercury engine usually has a magnet in the oil pan on the bottom of the engine to catch all the nasty crap the would get recirculated through the engine - iron filings really tear stuff up and all engines generate a little of the stuff.

Stay away from the junk - This is all b..s... - additives that rebuild your engine while you drive - Marvel Mystry oil - STP - etc. Although some gyros might find this stuff amusing to have in their engines - mostly it is "snake oil" designed to make salesmen and advertising guys rich.

Dr. d

[CHACHI]

Synthetic oils are the way of the future. Although most companies keep the formula secret they are liquid polymar material that is not destroyed by heat and use. Mostly they get dirty and combine with carbon, acids etc. so that changing them is really optional. Mostly you just add to them and change the filter. Mineral oils are traditional but break down with time and use, into their component parts of varnish, sludge, etc. and really have a limited life. Changing mineral oil is very important. Changing synthetic is a luxury. Some of you engineers out there can expand on this.

Here is some basic info. Oil thickness - viscosity is measured by an SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) number such as 10, 20, 30. Chemicals have been developed to make this into a multi viscosity oil such as 20W-50 which acts as a thin oil when cold and thicker when hot. 10W here would relate to its "winter rating." This is an "old school" term telling you how thick it acts when cold cranking the engine in winter - thick oil doesn't lube cold engines. So you want it to act thin when cold and thick when hot - it doesn't get thicker when hot it just acts like a different oil when temperature changes.

More basic info. Detergent or non detergent oil is measured by the API (American Petrolium INstitute) index which is a relative term based on the additive required for a given year car production SA, SB, SC, SD, SG they keep adding an additional rating for each new year of car manufacture where higher standards of addtitive are required. Your owners manual specifies what new additive requirement your new car may use - this is a relative term. SA has less of what the new car requires than SG. Detergents, anti foam agents and other chemicals clean the engine and help it do its job - its an additive thing. Time and exposure to air destroy this - hence the oil change every year.

Diesel engines have an addtional API rating for the extremely high load requirements of that type of engine - if memory serves me right it is somthing like CD, CF etc. So oils may be SD, and CD for example meaning they can be used in both gasoline and diesel engines.

Marine engines run full bore most of the time so you should always check the oil and keep it at max. Use the best oil and it is none too good for your engine. You can't go wrong using what Mercruiser recomends - I use what my engine builder recomended for my 502 MAG MPI engine as it has been rebuilt - Kendall green racing oil - Tyler Crockett builds race motors nationally and I just go with his recomendation - SAE 40 I am guessing - Merc recomends their own oil and I am thinking it is 20W-50 but you should check the service manual. Alway replace your filter with something like Fram or Mercury as it is the lifeguard of your engine - replace it often. By the way your Mercury engine usually has a magnet in the oil pan on the bottom of the engine to catch all the nasty crap the would get recirculated through the engine - iron filings really tear stuff up and all engines generate a little of the stuff.

Stay away from the junk - This is all b..s... - additives that rebuild your engine while you drive - Marvel Mystry oil - STP - etc. Although some gyros might find this stuff amusing to have in their engines - mostly it is "snake oil" designed to make salesmen and advertising guys rich.

Dr. dWOW! :confused:



Ken

[Ed Donnelly]

CHACHI; I bet you are really impressed with all that info
Did you even know half of that stuff:wink:?...Ed

[Barry Eller]

WOW! :confused:
Ken
Hey Ken! Is that information in Spectro Oils data base?:popcorn::kingme::pizza::uzi::drinkbeer:

[BUIZILLA]

did I enter the wrong room? :nilly:

[oledawg]

I totally agree on use of synthetic oil, if it is good enough for my Harley it is for sure good enough for my cars and boats! Just kidding with that, but I do find that it does run a little cooler and on my cars I run 2X the miles before changing, which I don't do on the boat. Bottom line is that there is no downside other than extra cost, and heck, if you have a boat(s) the cost of synthetic oil is definitely not on your radar! :cool!:

[MOP]

Dang that was some serious fun reading! Should cut and pasted into the OSO oil topic!

[smbarcelow]

Due to the fact that my boat gets very little cold weather use, I used a straight weight oil rather than multi-viscosity. I use Valvoline 40W Racing oil and I change it every spring. I've also heard people recommend changing the oil in the fall in order to avoid winter storage with contaminated oil, but I prefer to start the boating season with fresh oil.

I use Valvoline 5W30 SynPower in my Firebird and change it in the spring, although I may switch to the 40W Racing since it, too, gets very little cold weather use and very few miles per season.

I use Valvoline 5W30 DuraBlend in our everyday vehicles. I like the enhanced durability of a synthetic blend and the relative affordability versus full synthetic. I rely (mostly) on the vehicles' oil monitoring systems and change at intervals ranging from 6,000 to 10,000 miles. Our Envoy oil life monitor will sometimes allow 12,000 miles, but I don't like to let it go that long. I'm sure some of the 3,000 mile sticklers are already having a fit about 6,000 miles. ;)

[Rodger]

Alway replace your filter with something like Fram or Mercury as it is the lifeguard of your engine - replace it often.



I wouldn't use a Fram filter and that is not based solely on all the bad info I've read about them. I had my own bad experience with a Fram also.

[oledawg]

My shop here in NC just luvs Rotella 40W! :wink:

[CHACHI]

Synthetic oils are the way of the future.

Maybe, definatly not if you change them a shorten intervals.


Although most companies keep the formula secret they are liquid polymar material that is not destroyed by heat and use.

Nothing is secret, if you have the money and the lab facility, you exactly what's going on. There are only so many additive companies oil coumpounders can buy from to sell an API approved oil. The are ablend of base stocks, additive packages, and in the case of multi-viscosity oils, a viscosity improver (polymer).

Mostly they get dirty and combine with carbon, acids etc. so that changing them is really optional.

If an oil doesn't get dirty, (synthetic or petroleum), it's not doing it's job.
It is supposed to get dirty. The "dirt" is by-products from combustion that the oil filter doesn't filter out. If the oil was coumpounded correctly it neutralizes acids, it does't combine with them, and changing oil is not an option if you want an engine to live.

Mostly you just add to them and change the filter.

See above response.


Mineral oils are traditional but break down with time and use, into their component parts of varnish, sludge, etc. and really have a limited life.

ALL OILS BREAK DOWN!!!!! Synthetics just take alot longer to do it.

Petroleum oils componet parts are basestock and additives and that varnish and sludge are by products of an oil that is past it's prime. The oil is starting to oxidize. You can't buy varnish and sludge to blend into oil when you are making it.


Changing mineral oil is very important. Changing synthetic is a luxury. Some of you engineers out there can expand on this.

Change ALL TYPES of oil. Just change the synthetic less often.

Here is some basic info. Oil thickness - viscosity is measured by an SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) number such as 10, 20, 30.

Lets not forget the "W'" graded side. ie 0W, 5W, 10w, 15w, 20w, and 25w.



Chemicals have been developed to make this into a multi viscosity oil such as 20W-50 which acts as a thin oil when cold and thicker when hot.

Polymers are the "chemical". A 20w50 will have the flow charateristics of a 20w at -15 or 20 (can't remember which is the temp) and THEN CONTROL THE RATE OF THINNING OF THE OIL TO MEET A 50 AT 210 degrees F.
Oil doesn't not thicken when it gets hot. The scale that they grade oil on does not go 10,20,30 .........80,90



10W here would relate to its "winter rating."

This is correct, any viscosity with a "W" after it is a winter rating.

This is an "old school" term

The industry still uses a winter grading system.

telling you how thick it acts when cold cranking the engine in winter - thick oil doesn't lube cold engines. So you want it to act thin when cold and thick when hot - it doesn't get thicker when hot it just acts like a different oil when temperature changes.

Whew,.... short answer, oil thins with heat. It is the degree of thinning you worry about. The number after the "W" will tell you the realitive viscosity of the oil. I will guarentee the oil will be a WHOLE LOT THINNER than the realitive viscosity of the number before the "W".

More basic info. Detergent or non detergent oil is measured by the API (American Petrolium INstitute) index which is a relative term based on the additive required for a given year car production SA, SB, SC, SD, SG they keep adding an additional rating for each new year of car manufacture where higher standards of addtitive are required.

Correct, but it is not every year. The API runs the tests. It is the auto manufactures that push for the change of ratings. We have had SG/SH for many years. Just recently have there been quicker pace for the API ratings due to emissions controls, fuelilage issues, the push for longer drain intervals, etc.


Your owners manual specifies what new additive requirement your new car may use - this is a relative term. SA has less of what the new car requires than SG.


Latest auto rating is SL.



Detergents, anti foam agents and other chemicals clean the engine and help it do its job - its an additive thing. Time and exposure to air destroy this - hence the oil change every year.

I will give you this one but the every year thing bothers me.

Diesel engines have an addtional API rating for the extremely high load requirements of that type of engine

Diesels HAVE THEIR OWN API RATINGS, they start with the letter C for compression, as in ignition. The S stands for spark ignition.


if memory serves me right it is somthing like CD, CF etc. So oils may be SD, and CD for example meaning they can be used in both gasoline and diesel engines.


This is correct. they are called goof proof oils.

Marine engines run full bore most of the time so you should always check the oil and keep it at max. Use the best oil and it is none too good for your engine. You can't go wrong using what Mercruiser recomends - I use what my engine builder recomended for my 502 MAG MPI engine as it has been rebuilt - Kendall green racing oil - Tyler Crockett builds race motors nationally and I just go with his recomendation - SAE 40 I am guessing - Merc recomends their own oil and I am thinking it is 20W-50 but you should check the service manual. Alway replace your filter with something like Fram or Mercury as it is the lifeguard of your engine - replace it often. By the way your Mercury engine usually has a magnet in the oil pan on the bottom of the engine to catch all the nasty crap the would get recirculated through the engine - iron filings really tear stuff up and all engines generate a little of the stuff.

Stay away from the junk - This is all b..s... - additives that rebuild your engine while you drive - Marvel Mystry oil - STP - etc. Although some gyros might find this stuff amusing to have in their engines - mostly it is "snake oil" designed to make salesmen and advertising guys rich.




Dr. d



I am done.

Ken

[CHACHI]

Due to the fact that my boat gets very little cold weather use, I used a straight weight oil rather than multi-viscosity. I use Valvoline 40W Racing oil and I change it every spring. I've also heard people recommend changing the oil in the fall in order to avoid winter storage with contaminated oil, but I prefer to start the boating season with fresh oil.

You should change the oil in the fall before seasonal layup.

This way the contaminated oil is out of all the parts of the engine and with only 20 minutes of run time, (you better run the engine after you change the oil as that is the only was to flush the contamated oil for the lifters and all internal parts. If you don't run it after you chabge it, don't bother changing it cause the new clean oil is just in the pan.) you will have fresh oil in the motor for the start of the new season.

Ken

[gcarter]

Go gettem Ken! :yes:

[BUIZILLA]

My shop here in NC just luvs Rotella 40W! :wink:hopefully they don't own any Powerstrokes.. :bonk:

[Dr. David Fleming]

Yah, you should see those 2-strokers go ballistic! Half the fun of this site is getting a rise out of them - like bear baiting the dog! Its a show.

Dr. d