Old Viking sportfishers?

[handfulz28]

LRT's recent acquisition got me looking at these again. I have no idea which brands are decent and which are junk. Most important features are seating capacity on the bridge for a bunch of people, a decent sized saloon for the pole and disco ball, and a swim platform and fish door. The Hatteras and Viking seem to have the best seating on the bridge in the 40-45' range (I know that Pacemaker has a party bridge also, for a 48' :D).

I've seen a couple '70s-early '80s 40 footers and they're gas powered. Mostly the boat would be used "local" so that wouldn't be the end of the world. I'd love to see pictures of how these boats get repowered...heck a couple of small diesels would get me a comfortable cruise up and down the ICW since it would spend most time doing that anyways.

[The Hedgehog]

Sounds like a good idea to me. Maybe more will chime in. Must be a quiet day.

I will verify the party capacity of the Pacemaker flybridge in about a month:drinkbeer:

[zelatore]

Generically speaking, between Hat and Viking the Hat will be heavier built and a better ride and the Viking will be faster. There will be exceptions, but if I had to put a quick answer to the question of what's different between the two that's what I'd come up with.

40 to 45' sportfishers in gas??? WTF??? Now there's a white-elephant - you'd have to give it away to find an interested party I'd think. Fishing boats, be they bass boats our big convertible battle wagons have one thing in common: buyers want all the power and speed they can get! All I can say is steer clear of a 45' gas powered sport fishing rig. Not only will it be impossible to re-sell, but it won't have the speed, range, or torque needed with that sort of boat. I cringe to think what would happen the first time you head off-shore and run into a nice swell. With that much weight to push and that little power and small props, she'll come to a dead stop! She'd also be a pig around the dock with those little wheels!

Back to Hat/Viking, both are well built boats. I'd have no problem owning an example of either. Hat still has a bit more cache to the name, so if you're looking for a project to rebuilt and get good resale from down the road I'd probably lean that direction.

Another brand that comes to mind is Egg Harbor. The old Eggs were great looking boats. There are some real classics among them in the size/age you're talking about. They were usually fitted out more up-scale as opposed to hard-core battle wagon, and might work well for your use.

[gcarter]

I agree w/Don about Hats and weight. They're well designed and well built but maybe as much as 10K#'s heavier in the 45' range.
Pacemaker 40's are nice boats and came w/6-71 twins standard I think. At least most are powered that way.
There was also a Pacemaker 38 that was literally a 40 w/2' cut out of it. Identical boats otherwise.
Typically these boats from NJ and the Carolina's from the early 70's to about 80-85 are very well built. A lot of the build crews were carry overs from the last of the wooden boat days and their craftsmanship shows all over.

[MOP]

Like Mr. Zel says gas would be a very bad choice! I have sold and run quite a few in that class, for what you sound like you want to do give the 40 Viking a good looking over. They have non turbo charged engines, you can run them day in and day out at low speeds with no worries about coking up the turbos. They are 310 HP 671N's that if taken care will run a very long time with very few minor repairs. Not to hurt Georges feelings but Pacemakers would be low on the list, a very nice looking but has as many issues as the Egg Harbors do. The most important thing when buying any boat is to do some research, ask a lot of questions about various makes. You will see certain names always come to the top, find your best deal in that group and you will not go wrong.

[The Hedgehog]

You may be able to pick up a gas for cheap and repower to diesel.

I am sure that SOMEONE will know the costs involved in that. Won't be cheap but has been done.

[BUIZILLA]

find a 35 w/3208-300 Cat's...

[handfulz28]

40 to 45' sportfishers in gas??? WTF??? Now there's a white-elephant - you'd have to give it away to find an interested party I'd think.

Yeah, i can't believe a couple of these have near new Crusader 8.1s in them. Talk about wasting $20-30k. But maybe they get away with it because like you say, the Viking is lighter? FWIW, these are 40'...nothing bigger than that with gas.

Appreciate the input gentlemen. Since my dad got rid of the old 42' Sea Ray last year there's been no "big boat" in the family. He hated that thing for the way it handled around the dock. I thought the aft cabin made it horrible for getting in/out of the water (very important for here in SoFla). Maybe I'll have to start showing him some of these classics.

Did they put 3208s in the 35's? I found one picture of the 35 bridge and it just might be close/identical in size to the 40'. But what about the inside?

Oof...$50k for power PLUS gear...that's more than the hull! Like I said, I wanna see pics of how engines are R&R'd in these boats. I figure take out the sliding doors, reach in with a boom crane and pluck it?

[The Hedgehog]

I have 454 Crusaders in my 37' aft cabin. My boat is only around 18,000 lbs. It works well for a light boat on the TN system. It is very easy around the docks and has plenty of cruise. I would want diesel for a heavy boat in the big water.

Aft cabins are fine if you have a good set of steps. For that matter you better like steps. Big staterooms and heads come at a cost of exercise. I really enjoy mine. The big party happening on the flybridge and aft deck is where all the action takes place.

[BUIZILLA]

under 40' I like...

Egg's w/Cat's
Henriques with Volvo's
39 Hatt's, a real late 80's w/6-71's is kick ass
Post w/6-71's
Viking w/Cat's
Silverton

there was a pretty darn nice 37-40 Egg at Crandon Marina that the older couple wanted out of reallllll bad... can be bought under 50, I think it had 450hp-6/71's, cool old school

[boxy]

I learned to drive twins on a Silverton 31 ....
http://www.tsmservices.com/boat/

[JimG]

My repower cost around 75k 5 years ago. (Previous owner) Yanmar 6LYA-STP370's, and a Yanmar Mase genset.

You can't go wrong with any of them, Hatt/Bertram/Egg/Ocean/Pace/Pacemaker... If they have been cared for, and pass survey, they are all good boats. Sportfish boats make terrific cruisers/party boats!:yes:

[gcarter]

Here's an interesting looking boat....
W/6V-92's....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1983-Chris-Craft-42-foot-Sport-Fisherman_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZalgoQ3dSIQ26 ituQ3dUCIQ252BUAQ252BFICSQ26otnQ3d12Q26poQ3dLVIQ26 psQ3d54QQ_trksidZp3907Q2em263QQcategoryZ63726QQite mZ130331583404

[zelatore]

My repower cost around 75k 5 years ago. (Previous owner) Yanmar 6LYA-STP370's, and a Yanmar Mase genset.


Sounds about right. It's a big job. There are a few deals out there these days on engines laying around in somebody's stock. I had a line on a couple Yanmars or Scanias up in the PNW that didn't sound to bad over the summer.

Oh, and yeah, typically you take the salon door or maybe a window (if it's big enough) out and run a fork lift with a long stinger on it in through the opening to lift the motors. At least with sedans. Aft cabins are tougher. Next week we need to pull a transmission on a little 32 Carver aft cabin, and we're going to set up a small A-frame inside the salon, lift the motor and trany whole, slide some heavy plywood in under it, then pop the trany off right there. Lot of work.

[JimG]

If I were in the market right now, I would not buy anything gas (with a thought toward repowering). There are TONS of deals to be had out there on diesel boats. You just have to choose well, then start at around half of the asking price. You'd be shocked at what I paid for mine...:wink:

[Just Say N20]

Temporary Thread hijack:

Don, I was wondering about that. I ALWAYS run the boat (CARVER 38 Aft) from the flybridge, which pretty much insulated you from drive train noise.

I was changing the oil/filters last week end in preparation for the winter, and started the engines from the lower helm with the floor open,and it sounds like the vibration dampener is going on the port engine (Crusader 454/350hp straight inboard). I have heard this sound twice before, so I'm pretty sure that is what it is.

The transmission is the rear engine mount, and you have to split the transmission from the engine to get at the flywheel to take off the vibration dampener. I don't see an easy way to do this. Suggestions?

[zelatore]

Temporary Thread hijack:
Don, I was wondering about that. I ALWAYS run the boat (CARVER 38 Aft) from the flybridge, which pretty much insulated you from drive train noise.
I was changing the oil/filters last week end in preparation for the winter, and started the engines from the lower helm with the floor open,and it sounds like the vibration dampener is going on the port engine (Crusader 454/350hp straight inboard). I have heard this sound twice before, so I'm pretty sure that is what it is.
The transmission is the rear engine mount, and you have to split the transmission from the engine to get at the flywheel to take off the vibration dampener. I don't see an easy way to do this. Suggestions?

There's no easy way to do it, especially in an aft cabin. Years ago we had a small all aluminum A-frame made that we can break down. It's small/light enough we can set it up inside a salon or in the cockpit of a small boat if we need to lift an engine with the boat in the water (we don't have a fork lift at our shop unfortunately) We also have a couple aluminum U-tracks and the A-frame is on castors so we can roll it forward/back to give some movement. You could build something similar yourself out of lumber with a little shopping trip to Home Depot.

On the small boat we're doing next week, you simply can't get the trany out without pulling the motor - just not enough room. So we're pulling it all together. It will still be tight, but it should be doable. I haven't been on a 38 aft cabin in several years, but even on that boat you may have the same problem with not enough room. I suspect the trany will be back under the salon floor too far to get it out even if you break it free from the motor, unless you set the motor forward, and at that point you might as well lift the whole mess together.

Depending on the year, your boat may have aluminum supports for the salon floor. If so, it should be strong enough to support the A-frame. I usually lay some heavy ply down anyway to give me a working deck and protect the carpet, and that will help distribute the load a bit as well. If you have wood supports, you might want to temporarily brace the floor with some extra 2x4s. We are talking about close to 1000 lbs for a big block w/trans.

Pull all the hatches above the engine you need to access and set up the A-frame over the engine, as high as you can get it. Get the engine loose and lift it straight up. This is why you want the A-frame as high as you can get so you have room to swing the engine on the chain to get clearance - seldom can you just lift straight up without having to shove it around a little. Slide some 1" ply under it and depending on the layout of your floor supports maybe add some bracing under that to keep it from bowing. Lower the engine down on the ply (I usually leave the A-frame hooked to it to take some of the weight) then break the trany off the back. With a couple guys, you can man-handle the trany out of the boat, but it is heavy, so put plenty of old carpet/cardboard/blankets/etc around the doorway or you'r likely to bang into the woodwork wrestling it out.

Then, as they say in the books, installation is the reverse of removal.

Another tip - a chain fall works great for inch-perfect easy lifting, but I still find it's useful to have couple come-alongs for my lifting since that lets me really adjust the angle of the motor to get it to come out. And have at least 1 more guy on hand when you lift- it's bound to snag on something and you'll need one man running the lift while the other pushes/pulls the engine the right way for clearance. Worst case, you might need to pull one or both manifolds, but I think you can get it out with them on.

Of course, if you have a fork lift and a good work dock, you can take the salon window out and run a long stinger in to lift the motor. But I have to do it the old fashioned way.

So, it's a lot of work, but at least it won't leave you itching. :wink:

[handfulz28]

Pictures boys! Pictures! :D


Temporary Thread hijack:

dampener

Ugh...:D...I wanted to add this one to the spelling po po thread...

A "dampener" will make you wet

A "damper" will cushion vibrations

Hijack off :D

[Just Say N20]

There's no easy way to do it, especially in an aft cabin. Years ago we had a small all aluminum A-frame made that we can break down. It's small/light enough we can set it up inside a salon or in the cockpit of a small boat if we need to lift an engine with the boat in the water (we don't have a fork lift at our shop unfortunately) We also have a couple aluminum U-tracks and the A-frame is on castors so we can roll it forward/back to give some movement. You could build something similar yourself out of lumber with a little shopping trip to Home Depot.

On the small boat we're doing next week, you simply can't get the trany out without pulling the motor - just not enough room. So we're pulling it all together. It will still be tight, but it should be doable. I haven't been on a 38 aft cabin in several years, but even on that boat you may have the same problem with not enough room. I suspect the trany will be back under the salon floor too far to get it out even if you break it free from the motor, unless you set the motor forward, and at that point you might as well lift the whole mess together.

Depending on the year, your boat may have aluminum supports for the salon floor. If so, it should be strong enough to support the A-frame. I usually lay some heavy ply down anyway to give me a working deck and protect the carpet, and that will help distribute the load a bit as well. If you have wood supports, you might want to temporarily brace the floor with some extra 2x4s. We are talking about close to 1000 lbs for a big block w/trans.

Pull all the hatches above the engine you need to access and set up the A-frame over the engine, as high as you can get it. Get the engine loose and lift it straight up. This is why you want the A-frame as high as you can get so you have room to swing the engine on the chain to get clearance - seldom can you just lift straight up without having to shove it around a little. Slide some 1" ply under it and depending on the layout of your floor supports maybe add some bracing under that to keep it from bowing. Lower the engine down on the ply (I usually leave the A-frame hooked to it to take some of the weight) then break the trany off the back. With a couple guys, you can man-handle the trany out of the boat, but it is heavy, so put plenty of old carpet/cardboard/blankets/etc around the doorway or you'r likely to bang into the woodwork wrestling it out.

Then, as they say in the books, installation is the reverse of removal.

Another tip - a chain fall works great for inch-perfect easy lifting, but I still find it's useful to have couple come-alongs for my lifting since that lets me really adjust the angle of the motor to get it to come out. And have at least 1 more guy on hand when you lift- it's bound to snag on something and you'll need one man running the lift while the other pushes/pulls the engine the right way for clearance. Worst case, you might need to pull one or both manifolds, but I think you can get it out with them on.

Of course, if you have a fork lift and a good work dock, you can take the salon window out and run a long stinger in to lift the motor. But I have to do it the old fashioned way.

So, it's a lot of work, but at least it won't leave you itching. :wink:

Don, thanks for taking the time to give me such a thorough answer. My boat has the aluminum bracing that the floor sits on, and it does look plenty strong enough to handle this load.

Fortunately, I don't have to remove the transmission from the boat, just split the tranny off, so I can get to the flywheel.

I'm going to have to align the engine after I do this. Shouldn't be too bad. All four corners of the engine have very adjustable supports.

And, NOT itching is very, very good.

Bill

[Just Say N20]

Pictures boys! Pictures! :D



Ugh...:D...I wanted to add this one to the spelling po po thread...

A "dampener" will make you wet

A "damper" will cushion vibrations

Hijack off :D

:lol9:

Very good! :thewave:

[BUIZILLA]

Vikings are generally considered the Bayliners of sportfishermen. I must admit, i've never heard that before.. :confused:

[gcarter]

Keep in mind to go from gas to diesels, you'd probably have to change the entire fuel systerm from new fuel tanks, to exhaust. It's pretty much cost prohibative.

Not to mention trannies, couplers, shafts, struts, props, and maybe even rudders.

[The Hedgehog]

Not to mention trannies, couplers, shafts, struts, props, and maybe even rudders.

Good point.

It was just a thought. I have seen it done. I am sure that there is a point where it is cost effective to repower. So I am hearing that is not a viable option these days.

[BUIZILLA]

and water intake sizing...

[JimG]

GCarter, that Chris you posted is a dang nice boat. Is that the Hunt hull, the one they called the Bertram-Killer? There was one at my marina, very cool boat.

Of course, someone will probably call it a Bayliner...:rolleyes:

:wink:

Just kidding!

Jim

[JimG]

Cuda, you sure you're thinking of Viking? Not to start a Hatt/Viking debate (I love them both, and have spent a lot of time on both...), but Vikings are heavy-built (38' Viking outweighs 38' Hatteras by a wide margin), good-riding boats that remain very popular today. One of my dockmates just repowered an early one with Volvo diesels, and it's one SWEET boat.

Bayliner?

[BUIZILLA]

why does this seem too cheap?


2003 Sea Ray 56 SEDAN BRIDGE powerboat for sale in Texas (http://www.powerboatlistings.com/view/7932)

[handfulz28]

Not to mention trannies, couplers, shafts, struts, props, and maybe even rudders.


Keep in mind to go from gas to diesels, you'd probably have to change the entire fuel systerm from new fuel tanks, to exhaust. It's pretty much cost prohibative.

I obviously have less than zero experience in power conversions. But just brainfarting through say a BBC powered boat being converted to diesel. Keeping it in the GM family why wouldn't a Duramax bolt in relatively painlessly? Yeah, chances are trans ratios wouldn't be ideal but that's not a deal breaker. Fuel tanks and supply system...well if they aren't aluminum tanks in there to begin with they would need to be changed anyways. Otherwise drain 'em, inspect 'em, and fill 'em with diesel and run new lines.
Closed cooling would be an absolute must. Make sure the system has the capacity to include the manifolds and you're golden on that front.

I could see it being a greater challenge for boats that were never optioned with diesel. But since most have a diesel option there's at least a knowledge base to work from.

If somebody can convert Suburbans, Avalanches and Hummers to Duramax diesels, a boat can be done also.

[zelatore]

I must admit, i've never heard that before.. :confused:

News to me too! :confused:

Of course, I have heard some unflattering things about Bertrams lately...

[zelatore]

why does this seem too cheap?


2003 Sea Ray 56 SEDAN BRIDGE powerboat for sale in Texas (http://www.powerboatlistings.com/view/7932)

Too cheap? Yeah, I'd say. Of course, there are a few other typos in the ad. Beam of 46 feet? Single engine?

[Cuda]

Hijack, had to do it, it's not often Cuda screws up his speeeelllinggg :D :D
You can resume your normal kibitzing :) :)
I can't type for chit on this laptop. :)

[Last Real Texan]

The pacemaker is ready... Engines got all the required service and attention they were in need of. The shakedown cruise is oct 17 and then the Hedgehog and wife will join me And my family on the 26 th or so for a run to the keys from Stuart for the weekend ending up in Ft meyers for the boats bottom job. Realy
looking forward to the shakedown and testing of the bridges partY seating and cocktail hosting... I am goin to get a SPOT satelite service set up so you guys can keep track of us.... Should be a blast !

Tex

[Just Say N20]

Gas to Diesel conversions have been done more frequently that might be thought.

Usually they are done by people who really like their boat, use it a fair amount, and aren't satisfied by the performance they get from gas engines. They look at what it would cost to replace their boat, and then look at the cost of the conversion, which is significant but still considerably less than replacement, and decide to go diesel.

Yanmar and Steyr seem to get a lion's share of the conversions, but I personally know of a few Cummins conversions done with older Tiara 36 convertibles. The Tiara 36 guy said his conversion cost him as much as a really nice SUV, but they loved their boat, and if they could have gotten a new one the $600,000+ price tag was significant. His cruise went from around 17 knots to 28 knots, and his fuel economy improved by almost double if I remember correctly.

While there are some diesel brand XX to Yanmar diesel examples at the link, many are gas to diesel. There are all the issues mentioned in this thread, and more (prop shaft changes, prop changes (and to what dia/pitch), what gear ratios to change to, etc, etc), but the story almost always shows an 8 mph to 10 mph increase in cruise speed, as well as an almost doubling of fuel economy (while at the higher cruise speed).

http://www.algroversmarine.com/dieselmenupage3.htm


And BTW, I don't believe there is any truth to the statement about Viking versus Hatteras. They boat build excellent boats. Although I have heard a lot of jokes by Hatteras owners regarding the completely flat surfaces on the bridge which preclude the possibility of the water running off.

[MOP]

Temporary Thread hijack:

Don, I was wondering about that. I ALWAYS run the boat (CARVER 38 Aft) from the flybridge, which pretty much insulated you from drive train noise.

I was changing the oil/filters last week end in preparation for the winter, and started the engines from the lower helm with the floor open,and it sounds like the vibration dampener is going on the port engine (Crusader 454/350hp straight inboard). I have heard this sound twice before, so I'm pretty sure that is what it is.

The transmission is the rear engine mount, and you have to split the transmission from the engine to get at the flywheel to take off the vibration dampener. I don't see an easy way to do this. Suggestions?

Before you tear into it consider the fact that a bad plug or injector will give you one heck of a clacking sound. I have seen this many times, you did not state if it was gas or diesel. Either way it is fairly simple to diagnose a faulty cylinder, on gas pull one plug wire at a time while watching the amount of RPM drop all cylinders should drop the exact same amount. On a diesel get out yor rags stuff them around the injectors, then one at a time crack them open just like a gas engine the RPM drop should be exactly the same on all cylinders. You by not performing this simple check could do a ton of work only to find a simple cure. On a diesel this problem is easily masked with a Glendinning, it does not care if one is down a little on power it will still make them even up.

[gcarter]

Another alternative wopuld be to buy a Diesel boat w/tired engines and rebuild or replace w/rebuilt engines.
There's a lot of boats in that catagory right now. You already have the necessary 1 1/2" OR 2" shafts and struts. You could go w/down angle trannies, lower the front of the engines and gain some room or have more room for sound deadening.

[Cuda]

Gas to Diesel conversions have been done more frequently that might be thought.

Usually they are done by people who really like their boat, use it a fair amount, and aren't satisfied by the performance they get from gas engines. They look at what it would cost to replace their boat, and then look at the cost of the conversion, which is significant but still considerably less than replacement, and decide to go diesel.

Yanmar and Steyr seem to get a lion's share of the conversions, but I personally know of a few Cummins conversions done with older Tiara 36 convertibles. The Tiara 36 guy said his conversion cost him as much as a really nice SUV, but they loved their boat, and if they could have gotten a new one the $600,000+ price tag was significant. His cruise went from around 17 knots to 28 knots, and his fuel economy improved by almost double if I remember correctly.

While there are some diesel brand XX to Yanmar diesel examples at the link, many are gas to diesel. There are all the issues mentioned in this thread, and more (prop shaft changes, prop changes (and to what dia/pitch), what gear ratios to change to, etc, etc), but the story almost always shows an 8 mph to 10 mph increase in cruise speed, as well as an almost doubling of fuel economy (while at the higher cruise speed).

http://www.algroversmarine.com/dieselmenupage3.htm


And BTW, I don't believe there is any truth to the statement about Viking versus Hatteras. They boat build excellent boats. Although I have heard a lot of jokes by Hatteras owners regarding the completely flat surfaces on the bridge which preclude the possibility of the water running off.
I can't see how going from gas to diesels could possibly cost less.

I think a lot of first time buyers think that the biggest gas engine will be enough. You can get incredibly powered diesels if your pocket are deep enough, I don't know how many 36to40 ft boats had the 454/330 package, which simply isn't enough power for them. Stepping up to diesels is a whole nuther level of costs.

I drove a 40 foot Chris Craft charterboat through the jetties at Panama City when I was about twelve years old. About 25 years later, I was in PC telling this chick that story, when we saw the very same boat (Sea Horse) come through the jetties. True story!

[Cuda]

Another alternative wopuld be to buy a Diesel boat w/tired engines and rebuild or replace w/rebuilt engines.
There's a lot of boats in that catagory right now. You already haqe the necessary 1 1/2" OR 2" shafts and struts. You could go w/down angle trannies, lower the front of the engines and gain some room or have more room for sound deadening.
Bingo!

[The Hedgehog]

The pacemaker is ready... Engines got all the required service and attention they were in need of. The shakedown cruise is oct 17 and then the Hedgehog and wife will join me And my family on the 26 th or so for a run to the keys from Stuart for the weekend ending up in Ft meyers for the boats bottom job. Realy
looking forward to the shakedown and testing of the bridges partY seating and cocktail hosting... I am goin to get a SPOT satelite service set up so you guys can keep track of us.... Should be a blast !
Tex

Yeah, that big 50 ft slip is looking kind of funny with my 11 ft Whaler in it!

[Cuda]

Here's a candidate for repower.

http://daytona.craigslist.org/boa/1390670130.html

[Just Say N20]

Around the Great Lakes, there are tons of gas powered boats in the 35' to 42' range. Ours is a 38 Carver Aft with 454/350 hp Crusaders, which is a very popular engine in 40 Sea Ray Express' also. The 41' Egg Harbor Sport Fisherman in the slip next to us has the same gas engine package also.

The cost of the boats when new, was such that upgrading to diesels was a price jump of about 35%. Most people here don't run 100 miles each way to fish, so they figured for their use, $80,000 would buy a lot of gas.

They are dogs though. Our boat cruises at 17 mph, burning 2.5 gallons/mile. It would be awesome if it cruised at 26 mph burning 1 gallon/mile like a diesel would. Shoot, wide open for me is 26.5 mph!

[The Hedgehog]

Around the Great Lakes, there are tons of gas powered boats in the 35' to 42' range. Ours is a 38 Carver Aft with 454/350 hp Crusaders, which is a very popular engine in 40 Sea Ray Express' also. The 41' Egg Harbor Sport Fisherman in the slip next to us has the same gas engine package also.
The cost of the boats when new, was such that upgrading to diesels was a price jump of about 35%. Most people here don't run 100 miles each way to fish, so they figured for their use, $80,000 would buy a lot of gas.
They are dogs though. Our boat cruises at 17 mph, burning 2.5 gallons/mile. It would be awesome if it cruised at 26 mph burning 1 gallon/mile like a diesel would. Shoot, wide open for me is 26.5 mph!

Yes, we are in the land of gasoline cruisers and they are just fine for our lakes. You are right, those 454's can burn some gas.

[handfulz28]

I can't see how going from gas to diesels could possibly cost less.

It cost less to repower current boat than buy a new boat.

Interesting link; those guys sure like the Yanmar.

LRT/Hedge, make sure that SPOT thing is working. A bunch of us down here to give you a wave/moon/spray of champagne as you pass through the bridges and sandbars. :kingme: And yes, chances are the weather will suck at that time so you'll be cruising the ditch most of the way.

[Cuda]

It cost less to repower current boat than buy a new boat.

Interesting link; those guys sure like the Yanmar.

LRT/Hedge, make sure that SPOT thing is working. A bunch of us down here to give you a wave/moon/spray of champagne as you pass through the bridges and sandbars. :kingme: And yes, chances are the weather will suck at that time so you'll be cruising the ditch most of the way.
To repower to diesels would be about the same as buying a two year old gas powered cruiser.

[zelatore]

Around the Great Lakes, there are tons of gas powered boats in the 35' to 42' range. Ours is a 38 Carver Aft with 454/350 hp Crusaders, which is a very popular engine in 40 Sea Ray Express' also. The 41' Egg Harbor Sport Fisherman in the slip next to us has the same gas engine package also.
The cost of the boats when new, was such that upgrading to diesels was a price jump of about 35%. Most people here don't run 100 miles each way to fish, so they figured for their use, $80,000 would buy a lot of gas.
They are dogs though. Our boat cruises at 17 mph, burning 2.5 gallons/mile. It would be awesome if it cruised at 26 mph burning 1 gallon/mile like a diesel would. Shoot, wide open for me is 26.5 mph!

I gotta say - good luck getting that 38 aft cabin to cruise at 26 mph at 1 mpg. It would take a lot more power to push it up to those speeds, and I don't see you getting that kind of economy. Generally, when I've ordered the same boat with gas and diesel I've seen about a 35% economy increase with the diesel, a slightly higher cruise, and similar top end. Sure, you could spec a bigger motor and get a higher speed, but at considerable cost.

I just finished a boat show where we had a 35 and a pair of 36 flybridge boats. The 36's both had Crusader 350's, while the 35 had 6.0's. I don't know how many times I had to answer the question 'this thing got diesels?'. When answered 'no - I can't sell them in diesel', people think I'm just feeding them a line. Then (if they'll stick around long enough to listen) I explain to them that the diesel option would drive the cost up by about $50K (on a $300K boat), getting maybe 35% better economy. Assuming fuel costs the same, and you use the boat like most of the people in my area, running maybe 75 hrs/year, it just doesn't make sense.

Gas at $3.50/gallon, 75 hrs @ 20 gph = (75x20x3.5) $5250
Diesel at $3.50/gallon, 75 hrs @ 13 gph = (75x13x3.5) $3412.50

Annual fuel cost savings: $1837.50

$50,000/$1837.50 = 27.2 years to break even.

And that doesn't include the higher cost to service the diesels or the interest on the $50K. To be fair, I should work the higher resale value of the diesel boat in and (hopefully) lower over-all number of repairs, but regardless, you can see it becomes difficult to justify diesels in a small boat purely on a financial basis. Now if you run a lot of hours or need the range, that's a different story.

[Just Say N20]

Don,

We agree 100% on this one. :biggrin:

That's why there are so many gas boats in this size range around the Great Lakes.

Very few people plan to keep their boat 25+ years to break even.

[VetteLT193]

As far as the original question on Vikings they are well built but wet. Very heavy and not efficient. Interior layouts are generally not the best but they did make a few layouts that were better than others.

Good boats, yes. I like others better though. Good name for sure, hold their value better than others.

I agree with buiz though. get the 38 with 3208's. good deals on them and they are HUGE for a 38.

[joseph m. hahnl]

This 1987 41 viking has 7" more beam than comparable 41 Hatteras The Vikings are the premiere convertible. Notice on this one there aren't any port holes or windows.It's made for the big waves.The reason is windows and port holes can pop out when hit by big waves causing the boat to fill with water. that is why on newer models portholes and salon windows have been removed. also the Hat is rated at 17 knots to 21 knots, Where as the Viking is rated 26 Knots to 30 Knots
http://www.iboats.com/sites/watersedgepb/site_page_8255/images/l_801.jpghttp://www.iboats.com/sites/watersedgepb/site_page_8255/images/l_802.jpg

[BUIZILLA]

I could sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo own that.. :yes: :)

[MOP]

why does this seem too cheap?


2003 Sea Ray 56 SEDAN BRIDGE powerboat for sale in Texas (http://www.powerboatlistings.com/view/7932)

My buddy the boat speculator found a very late if I remember was also a 2003 60 for $225,000 that he passed onto a friend, the problem with the Searays is they used exterior plywood in the stringers and bulk heads. No way would it pass a survey! There was quite a bit on the net awhile back but it seems to have disappeared, maybe the Fed has stock in Searay!

[MOP]

Interesting tidbit about the 40 and the 41 Vikings, I have sold several of both and have kept up with most of the owners. On to the fact! 40 will run 18-19, 41 will run 25-26 but in and equal distance run they will both burn almost the identical amount of fuel. I have gotten this feed back from three different owners that moved up. They all have one issue not a big one in my eyes, the transoms separate from leakage around the exhaust outlets. Mind you the glass is very thick, I know this from helping with the fix on one customers boat to satisfy his insurance company. Even the adjuster said it would never sink it!

[zelatore]

My buddy the boat speculator found a very late if I remember was also a 2003 60 for $225,000 that he passed onto a friend, the problem with the Searays is they used exterior plywood in the stringers and bulk heads. No way would it pass a survey! There was quite a bit on the net awhile back but it seems to have disappeared, maybe the Fed has stock in Searay!

Larger Sea Rays also used wood cored hulls. Several years ago there was a semi-famous law suite about a relatively new boat with a hull so full of water they lifted it, drilled a hole in the bottom near the transom, and drained bucket after bucket of water. '03 sounds about right...don't remember the exact model.

[Cuda]

Feel the ride, live the legend.........Bertram.

[The Hedgehog]

I could sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo own that.. :yes: :)

Yep!

[MOP]

Feel the ride, live the legend.........Bertram.

Very true but stick with older models, you can verify my comment with any surveyor worth his salt. One of my customers and I surveyed three 37's all had voids and other issues, who ever has the reins of the company did not keep an eye on quality late 90's and early 2000's. Not sure if they have improved as of late! Will mail a buddy at NAMS he will have the poop!

[handfulz28]

What year did Viking stop putting their figurehead on the bow sides? Or was it an option? One that I've seen pics of had it painted. Nice little touch...

[VetteLT193]

What year did Viking stop putting their figurehead on the bow sides? Or was it an option? One that I've seen pics of had it painted. Nice little touch...

it was an option through the late 80's, maybe into the early 90's. Not sure about after that. I think the color of the logo in the 80's early 90's matched the color package you picked for the boat. You either got black trim around the lip windshield on the flybridge, with matching black trim around the windows on the sides or you got white (like the one pictured). The black trim boats seem more common and generally have a black mask as well.

[apollo24]

[quote=Cuda;539997]Vikings are generally considered the Bayliners of sportfishermen.

I don't know what you are smokin' but I want some! :wink: Viking is the premier production sportfish in the world followed by Hatteras or perhaps Cabo. This hasn't always been the order but they were never an entry-level boat. Viking is still building boats and has backorders as we speak (we have three 82' Sportfish's on order), unlike any other SF builders (except for custom builders). Bertram has fallen off the face of the earth, unfortunately- but they will be back. I was down at the Bertram factory, which is apparently going to be closed and moved soon from Miami, last month.

Rephrase that maybe with "Luhrs is considered the Bayliner of sportfish"- actually Luhrs is an aok "bang for the buck" boat. I have sold a lot of them, and I have learned that if someone wants a Luhrs, sell 'em a Luhrs. There's really nothing in a SF that compares to a Bayliner, because it wouldn't be seaworthy offshore. :lifeprese:

[joseph m. hahnl]

[quote=Cuda;539997]Vikings are generally considered the Bayliners of sportfishermen.

I don't know what you are smokin' but I want some! :wink: Viking is the premier production sportfish in the world followed by Hatteras or perhaps Cabo. This hasn't always been the order but they were never an entry-level boat. Viking is still building boats and has backorders as we speak (we have three 82' Sportfish's on order), unlike any other SF builders (except for custom builders). Bertram has fallen off the face of the earth, unfortunately- but they will be back. I was down at the Bertram factory, which is apparently going to be closed and moved soon from Miami, last month.

Rephrase that maybe with "Luhrs is considered the Bayliner of sportfish"- actually Luhrs is an aok "bang for the buck" boat. I have sold a lot of them, and I have learned that if someone wants a Luhrs, sell 'em a Luhrs. There's really nothing in a SF that compares to a Bayliner, because it wouldn't be seaworthy offshore. :lifeprese:


:salute:

[Cuda]

As I said, I've never owned either, but relaying what I HEARD from people who have owned both. I've ridden in a Bertram, and it was a great ride.

[Ghost]

I think we need more clearly defined data points to make sense of the reality. Most of us probably think highly of almost any Bertram from the sixties through the late 70's. Not sure exactly when some scary problems showed up. But by the time of that big Feretti "Bertram" that peeled itself like a banana a couple years back, no doubt there were real concerns.

So, how about we shoot to include model and approximate year when we can as we go on, to better refine what we know?

Mike

[apollo24]

I think we need more clearly defined data points to make sense of the reality. Most of us probably think highly of almost any Bertram from the sixties through the late 70's. Not sure exactly when some scary problems showed up. But by the time of that big Feretti "Bertram" that peeled itself like a banana a couple years back, no doubt there were real concerns.

So, how about we shoot to include model and approximate year when we can as we go on, to better refine what we know?

Mike

Sounds good, lemme go first!

I'd take wifey and 10 year old German Shepherd 75 miles out in a late 60's/early 70's 31 Bertram with 7000 hrs on original engines, no radio, no GPS and no suntan lotion over a brand new 30 Luhrs, EPIRB and a fresh Switlik any day! I know which one would get me back. Might just be me and the pooch on the ride back, but.... :wink:

[gcarter]

I spent some time on a 38' Bertie from the late '70's some years back while it was being completely refitted.
The cabin soles were out, wiring stripped, engines and genset were out.
IOW, you could really see how it was built. Unlike most boats in this catagory, it was a deep-V hull of about
20* deadrise rather than a warped bottom hull so at the speeds most of these boats operate at,
it would be less efficient at 20 MPH or so than its competitors.
Also, it was only about 12'-13' beam, so you gave up some interior volume compared to the 14'-15' beam of its copmpetitors.
Giving up 1'-2' of beam not only makes an otherwise wonderful boat cramped, but it's less comfortable than its beamier competitors.
If this particular boat were an over powered big performance cruiser masquerading as a FBSF, these items would be fine.
It would probably be capable of about 50 MPH and handle really rough water at fairly high speeds.
However, that's not how it was powered and never had been. I think it was powered by DD 8V53's so it was a 30 MPH boat at best.

[BUIZILLA]

I think it was powered by DD 8V53's so it was a 30 MPH boat at best. I seriously doubt it topped 20...

[gcarter]

I seriously doubt it topped 20...

And they sound funy.:wink:

[BUIZILLA]

other than a Harnischfeger, the 8V53N has to be the loudest internal combustion engine known to mankind, and that includes the Wankel.. :shocking:

[Cuda]

Giving up 1'-2' of beam not only makes an otherwise wonderful boat cramped, but it's less comfortable than its beamier competitors.
.
If someone wants to take out a floating condo, there are plenty of Sea Rays for sale.

[boxy]

If someone wants to take out a floating condo, there are plenty of Sea Rays for sale.
and I hear they have really comfortable chairs .....

[mjw930]

Vikings are generally considered the Bayliners of sportfishermen.
If I had my druthers, I'd take a Bertie every day of the week. Diesels of course. Keep in mind to go from gas to diesels, you'd probably have to change the entire fuel systerm from new fuel tanks, to exhaust. It's pretty much cost prohibative.

I must admit, i've never heard that before.. :confused:

Me either.

In the mid 70's we had our boat in the Bass River Marina, right in front of the Viking factory. I got to take a number of sea trials with their primary mechanic / captain. Vikings are every bit as well built as anything in their class and have some of the highest performance hulls in the class. That's not me saying that but quotes I've read in magazines for years. Hatt's are great boats, don't get me wrong, but my heart will always be with Viking.

Sorry, having spent so much time around the people who built them has probably colored my memory.....

BTW, do you recall an ad for Caterpillar (I think) back in the late 70's that showed a sportfish cresting the top of a 10' wave with 2/3 the boat suspended in the air? That was a Viking coming in the Barnegat inlet from a sea trial.

BTW, I would steer clear of any late '80's, early '90's Post or Egg. Their construction was spotty at best just before they went bankrupt, the first time.....

[mjw930]

This 1987 41 viking has 7" more beam than comparable 41 Hatteras The Vikings are the premiere convertible. Notice on this one there aren't any port holes or windows.It's made for the big waves.The reason is windows and port holes can pop out when hit by big waves causing the boat to fill with water. that is why on newer models portholes and salon windows have been removed. also the Hat is rated at 17 knots to 21 knots, Where as the Viking is rated 26 Knots to 30 Knots
http://www.iboats.com/sites/watersedgepb/site_page_8255/images/l_801.jpghttp://www.iboats.com/sites/watersedgepb/site_page_8255/images/l_802.jpg

I'm with Buiz, That it the DREAM BOAT from my childhood hanging out around the Viking docks. Wow, now I won't be able to get it out of my mind for days, Thanks :(

[Cuda]

and I hear they have really comfortable chairs .....
You must be following that thread on Speedwake about $2000 office chairs!:shocking:

[The Hedgehog]

If someone wants to take out a floating condo, there are plenty of Sea Rays for sale.

My dock neighbor has a 37 foot Sea Ray. I am pretty sure it will fit in the glove box of my 37

[boxy]

You must be following that thread on Speedwake about $2000 office chairs!:shocking:
:D :D

I did an "asset re-acquisition" for a Bankruptcy Trustee up here a few years back. We loaded, and shipped to my warehouse, 150 work stations in 2 days, and guess what kind of chair every employee had at this bankrupt company?? You guessed it, a Harmon Miller Aeron chair. We sold the whole lot of them to a used office furniture comapny for $75 a chair......

[Cuda]

And they wonder why they went bankrupt.