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Carl C
09-20-2009, 10:21 AM
You guys have been there and might save me some time. Who has the best deal on a complete Zeiger steering kit. Helm and back. I assume I can use my stock p/s pump and cooler.

hot shot
09-20-2009, 10:25 AM
I have a great hook.... I know paul everett pretty good and i get dealer prices give a call and i'll hook you up.... I don't want anything ... I'll put u in touch directly with him.... just did a system on a 28 apache 734 516 1242

Air 22
09-20-2009, 10:28 AM
Ask for Bill...

http://www.diamondperformanceparts.com/product.php?productid=16699&cat=261&page=1

This is the same sys Donzi Puts on the 22C's now. I have it and so do several other's here on the board. :cool:

Air 22
09-20-2009, 10:31 AM
I have a great hook.... I know paul everett pretty good and i get dealer prices give a call and i'll hook you up.... I don't want anything ... I'll put u in touch directly with him.... just did a system on a 28 apache 734 516 1242


Paul is awsome...I have spoken to him during my install...great guy.

Carl u have silent choice so have Brian 41 do the install for ya...:wink:

Carl C
09-20-2009, 10:38 AM
Paul is awsome...I have spoken to him during my install...great guy.

Carl u have silent choice so have Brian 41 do the install for ya...:wink:

There looks to be plenty of room to work in there. Does the silent choice Y-pipe have to come out for the install? I planned to do this myself and just take my time.

roadtrip se
09-20-2009, 10:53 AM
Would this be a good time to put a group buy together to get some steering systems bought?

The Zieger stuff looks pretty first class from waht I have seen. How about we throw Paul some business?

The more, the merrier, I say. This and life vests...

yeller
09-20-2009, 11:50 AM
Carl, do yourself a favor and don't take the helm that generally comes stock with the system. Order a different size that will reduce the # of wheel turns. My OEM system (if I remember correctly) was less than 2 turns lock-to-lock. The helm that came stock with the system I installed is now 4 turns. Really increased the docking hassle. And be prepared to lose the light feel of the stock steering. The new one will be much stiffer.

gcarter
09-20-2009, 12:07 PM
The speed (# of turns) is controlled by the length (volume)
of the gerotor pump on the back of the helm.
It's pretty easy to change I've been told.
The rest of the helm stays the same, just the gerotor pump
and the length of the bolts holding it together change,
so there's no need to buy an entirely new (or different) helm.

Carl C
09-20-2009, 12:07 PM
Carl, do yourself a favor and don't take the helm that generally comes stock with the system. Order a different size that will reduce the # of wheel turns. My OEM system (if I remember correctly) was less than 2 turns lock-to-lock. The helm that came stock with the system I installed is now 4 turns. Really increased the docking hassle. And be prepared to lose the light feel of the stock steering. The new one will be much stiffer.

Interesting, I will ask about the helm. Bummer that the steering will get stiff but I need to do this before I break the tiller arm.

gcarter
09-20-2009, 12:19 PM
This is a picture of my helm.
The gerotor is the round machined part down
below the section w/the ports. It's kind of long
and has a lot of displacement because of the
Hynautic K-5B cylinders which are large.
W/this gerotor, it will have just under 3 turns
lock to lock.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=50837&stc=1&d=1253467224

Bamboo Loui
09-20-2009, 12:36 PM
Think I am going to have to check out the # of turns as well-- My lift station is perpendicular to the normal prevailing winds on this lake and my lot on the lake has us in a place where we get the most wind on the lake when she's a blowin-- so getting in the lift station is already a job.

Carl-- Brian told me that the Y pipe most likely means the engine will have to come out-- mine does not have one so I may get lucky.

Brian has a template for the Zeiger work and has done quite a few. You will be replacing your steering post as well-- whole sizes are different-- Brian has a nice treatment for that for improved finished look.

RTSE-- Group Buy?? have not ordered mine- thought I would just ask Brian to do it-- I would love to get in on a group buy if we could all save some$$$ Brian said he does not mark up the parts but still-- if we could save money-- is it possible? Taking mine over on Monday NEXT week- weather still looks good enough for some more seat time this week.

I'll ask Brian if he is familiar with what George wrote or maybe Brian will chime in

gcarter
09-20-2009, 12:45 PM
Here's a little more info.
Look at page 2 & 3 and you'll see the length of
the gerotor (dimension C) and the corresponding
displacement of the pump;

Mr X
09-20-2009, 02:07 PM
As the amount of turns goes down, the effort required goes up no??
Hey Trip,how many turns L 2 L is yours?
No,
remember it uses the power steering pump.

Air 22
09-20-2009, 02:13 PM
Carl...I installed the Zeiger system with help from my Bud Bravo One...everything that Zeiger sends is all you need. The helm they send works great. (Don't go mixxing stuff up) If you talk to Paul he will set you up with the correct pkg. The length of the Helm is all you need to consider...The 5 inch helm keeps the distance approx same as your current set-up...

Good Luck...:wink:

Bamboo Loui
09-20-2009, 02:48 PM
Carl...I installed the Zeiger system with help from my Bud Bravo One...everything that Zeiger sends is all you need. The helm they send works great. (Don't go mixxing stuff up) If you talk to Paul he will set you up with the correct pkg. The length of the Helm is all you need to consider...The 5 inch helm keeps the distance approx same as your current set-up...

Good Luck...:wink:


Air-- Brian told me the steering wheel will be closer to me--- was he mistaken? or unaware of the 5" availablity?
thanks
Doug

roadtrip se
09-20-2009, 03:05 PM
As the amount of turns goes down, the effort required goes up no??
Hey Trip,how many turns L 2 L is yours?

about 2x with the latham.

Air 22
09-20-2009, 03:52 PM
Air-- Brian told me the steering wheel will be closer to me--- was he mistaken? or unaware of the 5" availablity?
thanks
Doug


Lou...here is a pic of mine...There are several helm lengths avail...ck with the supplier for the one you want.:wink:

BTW...You will need the Dash Bezel as seen in mine if you have the original oval Donzi Helm. The Dash Bezel covers the factory hole Perfect!:cool: They make 2 bezels get the larger one...trust me...lol..See before and after pic's below.

osur866
09-20-2009, 03:56 PM
My Latham seems to be around 2 to 2 1/2 turns lock to lock, LM7 helm, Carl mine is only stiff when engine not running, ie: no pump running. Steve

Air 22
09-20-2009, 04:22 PM
D,
how many turns L 2 L?

2 maybe 2 1/2...easy to turn while eng on....stiff as expected eng off:)

Air 22
09-20-2009, 04:33 PM
Get off yer ass and go check..


And get the numbers off the helm while your out there..


Oh, and clean the corrosion off of the bow light bulb holder... :eek:


Poodle...Here ya go...:wink:

yeller
09-20-2009, 07:11 PM
The speed (# of turns) is controlled by the length (volume)
of the gerotor pump on the back of the helm.
It's pretty easy to change I've been told.Glad you posted a pic George, because I didn't have a clue what you were talking about.

I don't see why you need to remove the engine? I have a Y pipe and had no problems. What is it about the 525 that require a removal?

Some of you said your steering wasn't stiff. Maybe my definition of stiff (stay out of the gutter) is different. Now mine isn't Popeye forearm building stiff, but with the stock hydraulic steering I could spin the wheel with one finger. Definitely can't do that now. It's much firmer. What is yours like?..(again, stay out of the gutter). :biggrin: If I used larger hoses from the helm to the rams, would it be easier to turn?

Now if that wasn't enough questions, now I need some marine education. I just found out there is a gerotor pump. I've always called the part in George's pic that the gerotor pump is attached to the helm. The part that puts the steering wheel closer or further from you the 'steering post'. Everyone is refering to the 'post' as the helm. What's the correct terminology for it?

Bamboo Loui
09-20-2009, 07:34 PM
Lou...here is a pic of mine...There are several helm lengths avail...ck with the supplier for the one you want.:wink:

BTW...You will need the Dash Bezel as seen in mine if you have the original oval Donzi Helm. The Dash Bezel covers the factory hole Perfect!:cool: They make 2 bezels get the larger one...trust me...lol..See before and after pic's below.

Thansk Air-- looks great

doug

gcarter
09-20-2009, 08:42 PM
Glad you posted a pic George, because I didn't have a clue what you were talking about.

I don't see why you need to remove the engine? I have a Y pipe and had no problems. What is it about the 525 that require a removal?

Some of you said your steering wasn't stiff. Maybe my definition of stiff (stay out of the gutter) is different. Now mine isn't Popeye forearm building stiff, but with the stock hydraulic steering I could spin the wheel with one finger. Definitely can't do that now. It's much firmer. What is yours like?..(again, stay out of the gutter). :biggrin: If I used larger hoses from the helm to the rams, would it be easier to turn?

Now if that wasn't enough questions, now I need some marine education. I just found out there is a gerotor pump. I've always called the part in George's pic that the gerotor pump is attached to the helm. The part that puts the steering wheel closer or further from you the 'steering post'. Everyone is refering to the 'post' as the helm. What's the correct terminology for it?


Technically, the whole apparatus is the helm, even on sailing ships. As far as the input shaft the wheel is attached to, I suppose it can be called anything you want to.
It's stiffer because, in spite of the fact it's boosted, you're still moving a lot of fluid, particularly if it's 2 turns L to L. You could get into the situation where, like in some cars, your input can require more fluid than the pump can supply.
For instance, my helm, w/a .86" gerotor, moves 9.7 cu. in./revolution. That's a lot because the total displacement of one of my cylinders is about 25 cu. in.
The Char-Lynn helm consists of a valve body w/4 ports; pres., return, left, right. Also the gerotor, which acts as a flow regulator (only its volume per revolution will move and it is directly attached to the input shaft). Also, the gerotor will still supply fluid under pressure even if your boost pump fails.

LKSD
09-21-2009, 08:49 AM
Feel free to call me I am a Distributor for Zeiger steering systems. I can set you up with the Donzi 22c OEM twin ram kit & a good price.. ;) Jamie / Lakeside Restorations 570-639-2628

.

Carl C
09-21-2009, 08:58 AM
Dwight, and everyone, thanks for all of the info. My steering now is just over two turns. Yeller, I would not be happy about going to four full turns either. It looks like I have a little more sorting out to do here and some phone calls to make.

I've been told that the dual ram systems are actually designed for twins and that a single ram is just as good. Is that true? Is there a good single ram system that can save me $?

Cuda
09-21-2009, 09:16 AM
I don't remember what kind of steering Catch has on his boat, but when he first got it put on, it was too many turns lock to lock, so he took it back and had them change it at Dollar Marine. Apparently, they just had to change a setting on it or something.

BigGrizzly
09-21-2009, 10:18 AM
second the motion

osur866
09-21-2009, 11:01 AM
Another vote for dual, it really won't cost you all that much more to add another and by the time you run all the hoses and stuff really not that much more time. Do it once and do it right.

Carl C
09-21-2009, 11:45 AM
OK, dual ram it is.