455 Oldsmobile (GM)

[axelkloehn]

What do you guys think about this engine for a GT21 with a Bravo One:


455 Oldsmobile (GM), V8 Big Block
450 HP
built 1975
Blocknr.: 396021F
Cyl.heads: Mondello Racing
Pistons: alloyracing from Arias
Manifold: 455 Torker from Edelbrock
Exhaust from Hardin alloy, Holley 750 carb


...ready to install for a good price!



...could this be something to go for?


Cheers, Axel :germany:

[Carl C]

Big block Chevy................:nilly:

[axelkloehn]

Big block Chevy................:nilly:


...this is what I am thinkin' too. Does not seem to be an olds...
The guy sent me the pics today, here in germany we are obviously not so familar with differences between Olds/Chevy, that' s may be why he put the GM behind it....but exhausts ports are quiet close together as you see in pic 3, strange for a chevy bigblock, or? And I do miss the waterpump?? How does he cool that thing?

It is in a 16ft jetboat and he says it makes 80mph at 4400 rpm with his berkeley jet. Sounds like a little low revs??

[silverghost]

Hey Guys
Looks like a 455 Olds to me~ Just look at the three exhaust ports on the marine manifold with larger twin port in center.
I know this engine from my uncle's X 18 Donzi /Berkeley waterjet that I ran for 20 years!
GREAT ENGINE !
BUY IT!
Tons of torque & HP !
Silverghost

[axelkloehn]

Hey Guys
Looks like a 455 Olds to me~ Just look at the three exhaust ports on the marine manifold with larger twin port in center.
I know this engine from my uncle's X 18 Donzi /Berkeley waterjet that I ran for 20 years!
GREAT ENGINE !
BUY IT!
Tons of torque & HP !
Silverghost


OK, you guys know more about american engines, and if YOU had it for 20 years you should really know it.
Silverghost- By the way, how fast where you with your X18? You remember the revs?
Thanks, Axel :)

[Carl C]

I didn't mean the pics were of a BBC, just that I would go with a Chevy motor because it is more universal and parts are easy to find. At least here in the USA. The engine looks nice but I would go with a 454 or 502 if you can find one for a comparable price. Good luck.

[mrfixxall]

Its a olds!! if you plan on running a outdrive good luck finding a bell housing for it or you may have to monkey *uck somthing up to adapt to it..that engine belongs to a squirt set up..if you buy it make sure you run a 10 + qt oil pan or poof:)

If it has what the owner said it has for parts its probably more then 450 hp..

[BUIZILLA]

listen to Mr Fix... :yes:

[axelkloehn]

Yes, I know bell housing is gonna be a problem- I asked the guy if he sells me his jet as well, cause my GT21 originally had the jet, before I all converted it for a bravo outdrive... he has not decided yet.
I can get the engine with exhausts as it is for about 3500$... I guess a BBC in same condition with same performance costs me at least twice the price...

Thanks for your help anyway, will decide this evening...

Cheers, Axel

[BUIZILLA]

once you get rid of that goofy high hat and those wingy thingy valve cover screws it's actually a pretty compact and versatile engine... I am pretty sure the bellhousing will bolt up to a Chevy pattern except you missing one top center fastener... no biggie... getting a drive coupler though, now that's unobtanium...

[MOP]

Great engine! I don't think it will be as big a project as it seems, any machine shop can relocate the holes on the coupler for you. Will be a unique package! I hammered a 455 to death and could not kill it, broke a few other parts of the car trying!

Phil

[silverghost]

The Olds/Berkeley Jet spedo said 70MPH at approx. 5000 RPM on the old Donzi X 18! Don't know how accurate that old cheap spedo was !?
I really liked the Olds/Berkeley waterjet set-up! It was a real blast !
As I stated We ran one for 20 years!
The engine will fit & bolt-up to a bravo chevy as it is the same as a Chevy bolt pattern with one extra top bolt that is really not necessary & must be left out! Drive coupler can be adapted.
Glenwood (Glen-L Designs) used to sell them; they still may? They are getting low on old Olds adaptor parts.
It is true that this engine needs a big BIG oil sump. Many that were not built properly ran out of sump oil at high revs and blew-up! lots of oil tended to stay up top in the cylinder head rocker & valley areas. I would also use a crankshaft oil scraper to prevent oil ropeing.
For some reason most original Berkeley waterjet packages in the 1960s-70s came with the Olds 455. Few, if any had the Big Block Chevy installed in a boat when new!
The Chevy will give you better access to afermarket bolt-ons and and replacment engine parts as the Chevy engine is still being built today in various forms.
Marine Manifolds will be a problem in the near future as when current supply stock runs out they will not re-cast them as sales are almost non-existant today!
This set-up really should be kept for the Berkeley jet owners who need engines & replacement parts!
Silverghost

[axelkloehn]

The Olds/Berkeley Jet spedo said 70MPH at approx. 5000 RPM on the old Donzi X 18! Don't know how accurate that old cheap spedo was !?
I really liked the Olds/Berkeley waterjet set-up! It was a real blast !
As I stated We ran one for 20 years!
The engine will fit & bolt-up to a bravo chevy as it is the same as a Chevy bolt pattern with one extra top bolt that is really not necessary & must be left out! Drive coupler can be adapted.
Glenwood (Glen-L Designs) used to sell them; they still may? They are getting low on old Olds adaptor parts.
It is true that this engine needs a big BIG oil sump. Many that were not built properly ran out of sump oil at high revs and blew-up! lots of oil tended to stay up top in the cylinder head rocker & valley areas. I would also use a crankshaft oil scraper to prevent oil ropeing.
For some reason most original Berkeley waterjet packages in the 1960s-70s came with the Olds 455. Few, if any had the Big Block Chevy installed in a boat when new!
The Chevy will give you better access to afermarket bolt-ons and and replacment engine parts as the Chevy engine is still being built today in various forms.
Marine Manifolds will be a problem in the near future as when current supply stock runs out they will not re-cast them as sales are almost non-existant today!
This set-up really should be kept for the Berkeley jet owners who need engines & replacement parts!
Silverghost

Good to hear it fits with little work on a bravo! Will call the guy up and see what he says, if he gives me the jet or not. They are really rare over here in germany. But if it goes with a bravo I have both options open.

Thanks, Axel :germany:

[MOP]

Note jets setups burn more fuel then a prop driven setups, jets are fun and require very little water to operated in but like I said pretty inefficient.

[mrfixxall]

Good to hear it fits with little work on a bravo! Will call the guy up and see what he says, if he gives me the jet or not. They are really rare over here in germany. But if it goes with a bravo I have both options open.

Thanks, Axel :germany:


Chevy and olds bell housings are not the same!!!! buick and olds will match up but a chevy one is out of the question.


If you get the rear engine mount http://eddiemarine.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=11580&c=41with the engine then it will work with some modifications..if the engine comes with a flywheel which make sure he throws in with the deal for ballancing issues,you may be able to bolt on a bravo coupler..the center of the rear motor mount/bellhousing may have to be opened up a bit to fir the hp coupler(make sure you get a hp merc coupler)
you may also need a longer splined shaft on the bravo,somthing from a merc its or merc xr speed master input shaft may be the ticket because their a little longer..

Make sure your trailer is on solid block when mocking up the engine to the coupler,your weight will throw the aleignment off..

[axelkloehn]

Chevy and olds bell housings are not the same!!!! buick and olds will match up but a chevy one is out of the question.


If you get the rear engine mount http://eddiemarine.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=11580&c=41with the engine then it will work with some modifications..if the engine comes with a flywheel which make sure he throws in with the deal for ballancing issues,you may be able to bolt on a bravo coupler..the center of the rear motor mount/bellhousing may have to be opened up a bit to fir the hp coupler(make sure you get a hp merc coupler)
you may also need a longer splined shaft on the bravo,somthing from a merc its or merc xr speed master input shaft may be the ticket because their a little longer..

Make sure your trailer is on solid block when mocking up the engine to the coupler,your weight will throw the aleignment off..



I have a stringer spacing about 30" and the Eddie rear mount is 24", hmmh, will think about it. Not sure now...

[MOP]

If you use the Merc bell housing there will be no need for a longer spline.

[axelkloehn]

If you use the Merc bell housing there will be no need for a longer spline.

Gonna look at the thing and take some measures, and take the merc bell housing with me, I have one from a 350 and see what comes out of it. It's a 200 mls drive to the guy- hope it's worth it... will keep you informed! :convertib:

[mrfixxall]

I have a stringer spacing about 30" and the Eddie rear mount is 24", hmmh, will think about it. Not sure now...

a merc housing wont fit the olds bolt pattern,you can try to make it work and redrill the holes,,if you deside to go the eddie marine route the l brackets supplyed can be changed to a wider one to fit the stringers..talk to chris their and tell him what you need and they can supply them..

[silverghost]

AXEL:
Did you fiberglass the bottom & transom from the former jet set-up? I believe I saw a former post of yours about your boat.
The Donzi Berkeley waterjets are quite rare indeed! Only a very small percentage of Donzi boats ever had jets.
You have a rare Donzi indeed!
Nothing performs like a jetboat! You can do tight turns in a jet that would flip or barrell roll a standard I/O outdrive setup.
They are very stable !
They run well in calm flat water as well as moderate chop. About the same as a Sea Doo or Waverunner.
They are not good running in rough seas.
Fuel consumption is not good at very low speeds but improves as you go faster!
At higher speeds about the same as an I/O outdrive set-up.
You can still buy new & rebuilt Berkeley jet pumps parts here in the USA.
Other jet brands are also still sold here!:shocking:There is nothing more fun than a jetboat!
If you can buy the Olds/Berkeley jet package I would do so!
It would be great to return this boat to it's original jet confiuration!
You will be very glad you did!
You will have a Donzi that no other person has in Germany!
By the way.
Part of my family is from Stuttgart & others from Whittenburg !
Silverghost

[BUIZILLA]

there IS an adapter you can get to go from BOP to Chevy pattern perfectly, it's about $52-$55... it's only about 1/8" thick...

[axelkloehn]

AXEL:
Did you fiberglass the bottom & transom from the former jet set-up? I believe I saw a former post of yours about your boat.

Part of my family is from Stuttgart & others from Whittenburg !
Silverghost


Great, Wittenburg is about 30mls away from where I live, will shout a "hello" when I drive to have a look at the olds-jet combo this week... it's on the way.
Yes, I have reglassed the whole rear transom area and bottom of the hull, see pics, but can still go back to jet, it needed to be restored anyway.

Cheers, Axel :germany:

[Schnoogie]

Bottom ends are weak, dont load them up, they'll snap a crank after they wipe out the bearings.
BB Cheby

[axelkloehn]

Bottom ends are weak, dont load them up, they'll snap a crank after they wipe out the bearings.
BB Cheby


...that sounds like some bad experience... :wrench::wrench::wrench:

cheers, Axel :germany:

[axelkloehn]

Still not decided yet, it depends on wether he is selling the jet-drive as well or not.

.. if anybody is interested, here is the german ebay link:

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110432478793&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Cheers, Axel :germany:

[mrfixxall]

Still not decided yet, it depends on wether he is selling the jet-drive as well or not.

.. if anybody is interested, here is the german ebay link:

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110432478793&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Cheers, Axel :germany:


Can you translate it for us,i am german and i only know the dirty words :) i really oly need to know what and who's and what quality parts are in the engine..

[axelkloehn]

...here you go :wink:



Guten Tag,
blablabla completely reworked blablabla all gaskets new blablablabla new big end bearings for crankshaft blabla Mr. Gaskets polished valve covers blablabla boat imported 1995 from Delray Beach blablablablabla must sell engine to finance my studies (...believe it or not)


technical data:
Company: Oldsmobile (GM)
type: 455 V8 Big Block
7,5 Ltr./455 CI

Leistung: 330 kw / 450 hp
built: 1975
eng. no: 396021F
cyl.-heads: Tuningheads from Mondello Racing
pistons: forged alloyracing from Arias
manifold: 455 Torker Edelbrock
exhaust: watercooled polished alloy from Hardin
Airscoop: black or polished from Mr. Gasket
Carb: 4- Barrel-toilette Holley
engine mounts: alloy Hardin
marine conversion: Hardin Marine
fuelpumps: 1x mechanical plus 1x electrical


choose goofy-hat-style airscoop: -black (add 100 Euro)
or polished (add 300 Euro)

Buyer must take care off shipping and shipping costs from Berlin, Germany!

[CaribouLou]

That motor has a really nice set of heads on it. I used to be a big Olds junkie back in the day.....


That's a strong motor, and will make great power.

[MOP]

I beat the krap out of a 455 never had a bottom issue, never heard that stated before.

[CaribouLou]

I beat the krap out of a 455 never had a bottom issue, never heard that stated before.


I've always known them to have stronger bottom ends, but I could be wrong?

[smbarcelow]

I beat the krap out of a 455 never had a bottom issue, never heard that stated before.

Ditto.

[axelkloehn]

BOUGHT IT!!

I got the 455 Olds as you can see in the pix before WITH(!!) the Jet-drive, which seems to be a Jacuzzi 12WJ (there is a nr. 4418 on the housing, but the makers label is not readable anymore), for 4500 bucks, which is in my eyes a great deal!!

I pick it up end of next week and check whether I line it up with the bravo drive or use the original jacuzzi, depends on how it works out with the bell and coupler...

What a pity I can't testdrive it this year, still too much work to do... you guys in Florida have the good weather all the time, here it starts getting cold already :boggled:

Cheers, Axel :germany:

[Sweet Cheekz]

Congrats Good Deal
Parnell

[smbarcelow]

Very cool, Axel. The 455 I whipped on as a kid was mated to a Jacuzzi 12YJ pump. I'd go with that combo in your Donzi in a heartbeat. I often wish mine was a jet.