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View Full Version : At a cross road.. motor guys chime in



Bryan Tuvell 33ZX
08-28-2009, 10:25 PM
OK, here we go, I got my retirement orders today, 28.5 years serving our country, I am done, and thank God for a good life. Already hired into my new job making really good money on top of a retirement.
I will either buy a new home and add on for the boat (boat house) or build to spec to accomodate. Yet a new ride and to continue to dry store is an option.
Keep in mind I am not a wrencher turner guy, no skills in this area, hence this thread and question.
My question is, 2003, 33ZX, 496HO's, 261 hours, never an issue and all Merc maitenance performed annually by the book, not a cheap date, but always done. 261 hours.
I have the buzz hard to also upgrade in boating, 73 mph is no longer my gig. Rode a 38 Cig TG coming up the coast at 87 and my scabs are still on my knees, no room, a ZR is no better for a 6'5" guy. I love my 33ZX.. roomy.. motors will not last forever and I would like to see 85mph.
Do 525's or ILMOR's bolt to the same spot? Align with a drive? Yes NX or XR drives, looking to do a package deal.
Can you guys shed some light? If it is to hard or pricey it is time to just move to a different boat.
If you think this is doable who would you recommend for a drop off job, check, pick up and roll?
I have ask this question here because of maturity and wisdom that comes with this website.
Thanks, Bryan

PS, we raised thousands for the American Cancer Society this weekend. Someone close to me has Breast Cancer.

Bryan Tuvell 33ZX
08-28-2009, 10:38 PM
Scott, nice quick reply. Your welcome, had Nancy not have gotten sick I would have completed my 30 years by law. Crappy year for us all.

Good info, that is the kind of data I need.

So I could pull two 496HO's and bolt in 525's with out a CUT fest on the transom. I am sure the exhaust would need work, but that is minor compared to redoing the stern, cutting for drives etc.

Thanks
B

Bryan Tuvell 33ZX
08-28-2009, 10:43 PM
Another silly question, what do 525's go for these days, new? To tired to google.
B

mrfixxall
08-29-2009, 12:40 AM
Another silly question, what do 525's go for these days, new? To tired to google.
B


Bryan,35k each,i think if your going to spend 70 k i would pull yours and sell them as a complete package..find some low hour its setups and thease..


http://www.offshoreonly.com/classifieds/2_htg_1075_sc_efis-o30487-en.html

BUIZILLA
08-29-2009, 07:33 AM
hey Bryan... if you decide to jump ships, what other boat would you consider, all $$$ said and done..

Carl C
08-29-2009, 07:52 AM
Having just swapped out a 496 HO for a 525 EFI I can add my experience:

Exhaust width is different I needed to cut new exhaust holes. If your engines are further from the transom you can probably get by with custom tailpipes. Not cheap either way.

You will need to replace the wiring harness. This was about $600 for the part in my single engine application.

You will need to access the engine's computer to switch it to analog signal output.

My Bravo 1 drive quickly expired behind 525 hp.

I paid $20,000 for a low hour 525 of 2007 vintage.

Other than that the engines will bolt right in.

Bryan Tuvell 33ZX
08-29-2009, 08:05 AM
Great responses, just what a non-wrench turner like me likes to read. Reading I am good at.

Buizilla; If I was to jump ship, I would almost have to work with Donzi or Cig to build a drivers area, like Cig has that little ramp for your feet, etc. Boat prices are down, I have a friend who owns a 2004 Cig w 525's that I bet I could get for a really good price.

MPoodle, yeah cancer sucks, she will survive, she had a double masectomy 2 weeks ago, and now pathology shows her cancer free, she is a fighter and still my best friend.

I have been fairly easy and very good to my engines, how many hours would you guess they would run or before I should have them gone over?
I will start looking around I guess at engines. I don't want any thing crazy or to do a 100, but I knowmine won't last forever. If I was smart I would just have these redone, and that to is an option. I talk allot of smack about changing boats and I never do, I just love the one I have..

Thanks
B

roadtrip se
08-29-2009, 08:46 AM
Give Nancy our best. She is tough as nails, so I have no doubts about her, if attitude is involved.

As for upgrades, what about a pair of rehabbed 500's? Lot less dough than a set of 525's, maybe 20-25K for a pair installed, and your at 79-80 with little to no aggravation.

The Hedgehog
08-29-2009, 08:51 AM
First of all, thanks for your service.

If you like your boat and what it does, keep it. If you look around for a while, you can probably find a deal like Carl did. That should wake up your boat some and keep you in closed cooling. I dunno the exact speed difference but it will be noticeable. You may want to look around. I think that a 33ZX Daytona has been done with the ITS. That may benefit as well. There should be some info on that.

Bryan Tuvell 33ZX
08-29-2009, 08:53 AM
RT, not a bad idea either. All options are on the table. I become a civilian 1 April (have to fly back from way out west). I will then move, and start figuring out my next move boating wise. Just trying to look ahead and figure things out. In more ways than one..
Our poker run was when BILL was off the coast! A fun time, but it would have been a better ride a bit faster, plus I am consistantly at 4K RPM at cruise, boat is a pig any slower.

I hope you and Jill are well, we need to catch up sometime.
Bryan

Bryan Tuvell 33ZX
08-29-2009, 08:57 AM
So if I got 500's or 525's, wouldn't they come with a computer of their own? I understand needing to buy wiring harness.. ???

Carl C
08-29-2009, 09:12 AM
So if I got 500's or 525's, wouldn't they come with a computer of their own? I understand needing to buy wiring harness.. ???

The wiring harness is needed for the 525 to get the gauges and trim to work right. The engine is a complete package with computer but is all digital. You might be able to rig new senders and re wire stuff one thing at a time but the new wiring harness and computer flash is the way to do it right. The motor will run without it but you won't have tach or gauges and the trim switch will need to be modified. That's where I'm at now. The harness is going in this winter, I already have it.

BTW, I think your 496s should have a lot of life left in them. A rebuild down the road might be needed but I would not put money in them trying to get more performance.

BigGrizzly
08-29-2009, 09:43 AM
I just got on the computer. Bryan, you have my numbers and I have good news as well. I got results of my scan yesterday and my new Cancer is gone. Good weekend coming.
I know you have been worried about Nancy but fighters usually win. Never give up, I don't. Some how I am glad you taking early leave, you have served us and USA well. Well you have a new job already, so I guess the Georgia job is out. Well you just have to come and visit.
Now for the boat situation. All the options that were set forth are good ones. The 496 is a good engine but weak in every respect. 525s are a much better option. Or 540s with some ponies, a mild state that is. As for getting a new boat. You really like that one. If it is big enough then stay with it and re power. Very little changes are necessary to upgrade. You may not even have to move the exhausts outlets, your boat is different then Carl's. Remember one thing a 38 should ride better at speed, but that is not always true. Only you can determine that. Regardless of what other people say, unless they ride side by side with you in the same water, their opinions are just that opinions. Also remember some 38s and other boats are too wide to trailer without permits on highways and can be a bear to launch. This is just another overlooked situation with buying a bigger boat. Given all that I know about you and your situation, I think I would just re power. There is so much you will have to change with your life with a new/ different boat. Now If you can sell yours and get a dream boat, that's something else again. Remember If prices are down for buying boats so is the market for selling boats. All this needs to enter the equation. Re powering is easy. Its building a durable engine, that is the hard part. Like Poodle says keep the drives until they crap out, if they crap out. You already have steering so upgrades for that power are easy. Konrad is going to make a bravo replacement good to 800 hp. Trust me when I tell you they make a good product. With the economy I would just wait on the drives. The other point is only make ONE change at a time, that way you know what issue to attack. engines then drives if necessary. Another point is with 525s you won't have to cruise at the same RPMs as before. More ponies bigger/better props, more speed at less Rpms. Well thats all for now. If you need to talk call.

Bryan Tuvell 33ZX
08-29-2009, 10:09 AM
Randy, thanks for the kind words. The Atlanta based company did hire me, for now I am in Virginia Beach for the next 3 years. I may end up in GA, their hub and key to allied training money. They flew in to meet me 24 July, I dropped my retirement request 28 July, my final orders arrived yesterday morning. So in a nut shell I will be making trips to GA....

Regarding the boat, my boat is wider than any on the market at 9'6" in the beam, let alone on the trailer, oh my... When I say build a place for the boat, that is for bringing it home for a week, or a winter. I LOVE DRY STORAGE. Not looking to upgrade unless it was a hell of a deal, what I want is my 33ZX to have a top end of 85. Not a huge task, she is a true 72 or 73 MPH boat, 75 maybe when I catch a wake. Motors are strong, they are babied and cared for very well. My maitenance bill is several thousand a year, alignment check, fluids, props, this year plugs and anti-freeze, belts are next. New annual impellors etc. I just want her to go faster.

Looking at all options. I posted here vice OSO looking for some wisdom and common sense. And that is what I got. Thanks man, I may call ya later.

Hell worse case scenario, new 496's and just keep doing what I am doing, no complaints, everyone knows I love my Donzi... and even the Microwave with 20 bolts in it, it now stays in place riding in the nasty ocean!

Bryan

BigGrizzly
08-29-2009, 10:17 AM
Your quest is attainable with power. Check at all the options. At this point it is not a got to have done because the motors are dead thing. Do what you do and plan. this is your boat make it fit you.

Bryan Tuvell 33ZX
08-29-2009, 10:23 AM
Well said Randy... That boat amazes me, kid you not, in rough water only the Cigs are faster and most other brands slow down.. I will say I am very impressed by my buddies new active thunder, 82 in a 38 with 525's.. The big Fountains are also impressive..
I never have a worry at 2 on the K planes and 2 on the drives at 60 to 65, I pass the average guy whose balls are hurting from a pounding, it is the Atlantic Ocean ya know....

It will all come together, you know me, I am a planner, so planning now. Woke my banker up at 6am to talk about my next house! Got to love Mary!

B

blackhawk
08-29-2009, 05:30 PM
Bryan thanks for all your years of service and raising money for breast cancer. I lost a friend last year after a long battle and she was WAY to young.

You have a ton of options for a repower. But my vote is for the Ilmors if you can swing it. A couple of 625s would give you a very unique piece with great power. :D Obviously more work for the swap but it would be worth it in the end. Plus, I've heard they have used/test motors that they sell pretty competitively.

Bryan Tuvell 33ZX
08-29-2009, 05:41 PM
As I thought of this post and my engine compartment in my mind, my HO's are SO TIGHT side by side, not sure how another set of engines with big exhaust tubes would work.

I am learning allot from this thread. And you are welcome all, I love the Navy. I will miss it. Yet have a hand in it in a suit and tie.

And who does these kinds of swaps, that is professional, no back yard guys for this kind of deal. There is no one in Hampton Roads.

Bryan

LKSD
08-29-2009, 07:28 PM
OK, here we go, I got my retirement orders today, 28.5 years serving our country, I am done, and thank God for a good life. Already hired into my new job making really good money on top of a retirement.
I will either buy a new home and add on for the boat (boat house) or build to spec to accomodate. Yet a new ride and to continue to dry store is an option.
Keep in mind I am not a wrencher turner guy, no skills in this area, hence this thread and question.
My question is, 2003, 33ZX, 496HO's, 261 hours, never an issue and all Merc maitenance performed annually by the book, not a cheap date, but always done. 261 hours.
I have the buzz hard to also upgrade in boating, 73 mph is no longer my gig. Rode a 38 Cig TG coming up the coast at 87 and my scabs are still on my knees, no room, a ZR is no better for a 6'5" guy. I love my 33ZX.. roomy.. motors will not last forever and I would like to see 85mph.
Do 525's or ILMOR's bolt to the same spot? Align with a drive? Yes NX or XR drives, looking to do a package deal.
Can you guys shed some light? If it is to hard or pricey it is time to just move to a different boat.
If you think this is doable who would you recommend for a drop off job, check, pick up and roll?
I have ask this question here because of maturity and wisdom that comes with this website.
Thanks, Bryan
PS, we raised thousands for the American Cancer Society this weekend. Someone close to me has Breast Cancer.

Good to hear you are going to be getting some time for YOU now after serving & protecting our country.. I hope you get to enjoy it well. :)

in regards to your question with the power, we can repower it for you when ever you are ready if youd like. :) I dont know that I would too fast to go with the Ilmor power tho.. I can tell you why on the phone.. ;) There are a few good alternatives for power in comparison to the 525 that can also keep some coin in your pocket & do as well or better for you.. We have some of our own power, there is also the LSM 550's (closed cooling all aluminum motors) & TCM stuff that can really give you an extra kick in the pants as well as being good products.. If you want to discuss any of it in more detail feel free to give me a jingle during the week.. :)

Again good to hear you are back, sorry to hear about your friend.. We have had to deal with cancer close to home currently too with Kristin's Dad.. When you are settled in & get a chance to shoot the breeze give us a shout.. :) Jamie

.

Bryan Tuvell 33ZX
08-29-2009, 07:41 PM
To odd, I thought of you today Jamie. More in a bit, Joe man and I are getting ready for the UFC fight. Start figuring out how to spend my money! And of course help sell 2 well preserved HO's... get that mind rolling dude.
Bryan

LKSD
08-29-2009, 07:50 PM
To odd, I thought of you today Jamie. More in a bit, Joe man and I are getting ready for the UFC fight. Start figuring out how to spend my money! And of course help sell 2 well preserved HO's... get that mind rolling dude.
Bryan

No kiddin' that is prettu wild.. lol :) We were wondering too what you have been up to lately too. :)

I'm up to my azz in alligators with paper work & shop stuff Sunday & Monday.. But I plan to be doing some some more leisurely work stuff in the home office on Tuesday if you want to give me a shout, or email me & I can call you.. :) Jamie

fasttrucker
08-29-2009, 07:55 PM
raylar kit for your 496,s turns them into 525,s....might be cheaper way to go.

BUIZILLA
08-29-2009, 09:06 PM
plug and play 500's with some head and intake work...GOOD exhaust, skip the CMI's, IMCO's when the B's go, and you KNOW they'll go.. LOL

BigGrizzly
08-30-2009, 08:04 AM
Bryan, you know me conservative power with durability. Forget the Raylar kits, they ate weak at best, Mick is disappointed with his. I do want to add one thing to my post and that is closed cooling systems on the motors, especially where you live, with the sudden change in temperature you get.

blackhawk
08-30-2009, 12:24 PM
To odd, I thought of you today Jamie. More in a bit, Joe man and I are getting ready for the UFC fight. Start figuring out how to spend my money! And of course help sell 2 well preserved HO's... get that mind rolling dude.
Bryan

How about that Nate Marquardt KNOCKOUT! Wow!!!

I still vote for the Ilmors. V-10s at 5800 rpm sound sweeeet. :D

Bryan Tuvell 33ZX
08-30-2009, 01:07 PM
It was an awesome set of fights! 7 Seconds... wow

LKSD
08-30-2009, 07:20 PM
Bryan, you know me conservative power with durability. Forget the Raylar kits, they ate weak at best, Mick is disappointed with his. I do want to add one thing to my post and that is closed cooling systems on the motors, especially where you live, with the sudden change in temperature you get.

I agree as far as the 496 kits from Raylar, not bad kits. Just pricey for how much power you get in comparison to other alternatives. That is unless you are looking at rebuilding on the 496's.. :) Jamie

Bryan Tuvell 33ZX
08-30-2009, 07:51 PM
Nope, I want to drop off my boat, have agreed on power and price and make my Donzi go faster.
As I said, I am a civilian 1 April, and start my new job which will afford me the opportunity to better my Donzi.
Or, buy a 42 Fountain. I need room and a bit more speed, weighing all options.

Jamie, if I do a motor upgrade you will be the man, I made that decision earlier today, that is if you will put me up a night when I come check on the boat! I can't afford motors and a hotel room... oh and throw in dinner.
Bryan

Bryan Tuvell 33ZX
08-30-2009, 08:00 PM
Scott thanks, you are right, I am. My money is good, if you see a deal I can't pass let me know, I wonder what my boat would do with 500's or 525's?
I am worried the motors are to close as is for CMI's.

But if the Transom has to get cut up it just does, yet that scares the hell out of me. The more I think about this the more I think maybe I need a different boat. Hard thought process....

Thanks
Bryan

mrfixxall
08-30-2009, 08:30 PM
Bryan,their is a guy up in maine with a pair of 525's cheap!! i seen thease engines months ago and since he lowered the price to 7500 each..thew were new,the boat they were in was in a barn that caught fire then someone ransacked the boat and stole a bunch of parts off the engines leaving the long blocks..heres the link, a machine shop owns then and he garentees they are new..he also has cmi headers that may go with it..

http://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/boa/1296544341.html

BUIZILLA
08-30-2009, 08:45 PM
BIGGUS for sure would know about these and any history, he knew that barn well...

Marlin275
08-30-2009, 08:51 PM
Or, buy a 42 Fountain.

the beak just looks cheesy ?
not Navy enough . . .

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=50056&d=1251683384

http://www.maximini.org/speedmarine/Uploads/donzi-43-zr-b.jpg

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=35024&d=1206906619

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=35022&d=1206906619

The Hedgehog
08-30-2009, 09:22 PM
I have a client that repoed a 42 Fountain with 700 Mercs and #6's. It was super clean last pic I saw. He has written it down and will let it go cheap.

I can get details if you want.

LKSD
08-30-2009, 09:38 PM
Nope, I want to drop off my boat, have agreed on power and price and make my Donzi go faster.
As I said, I am a civilian 1 April, and start my new job which will afford me the opportunity to better my Donzi.
Or, buy a 42 Fountain. I need room and a bit more speed, weighing all options.
Jamie, if I do a motor upgrade you will be the man, I made that decision earlier today, that is if you will put me up a night when I come check on the boat! I can't afford motors and a hotel room... oh and throw in dinner.
Bryan

Whether you repower or not we gotta hang out a bit :).. I look forward to talking with you soon again about both pleasure & biz.. :) Jamie / Lakeside

micahmiles
09-01-2009, 01:18 AM
First of all, congratulations and thanks for the service.

I have a 2003 33ZX Daytona with ITS and 575sci's. With Hyrdomotive P5 30", I've hit 88 on GPS (freshwater) at just under 5000 RPM. My engine's are currently stock, but I'm in process of swapping pulleys (-.5") and reprogramming the ECM (this week) with hopes to get solidly into the 90's. I'll probably try a good 4 blade as well, but the heavy 33ZX really likes the extra bite of a 5 blade.

With 525's I would expect you should easily be in the low to mid 80's with proper drive / prop setup.

Hope this helps.

Bryan Tuvell 33ZX
09-02-2009, 05:27 PM
All great input, every post helps me. I know most cannot understand what transition is from the military.
Now I have a great retirement on top of a great job/salary.
I am trying to make a smart decision.

For the last couple years I thought a 38 was my answer, the TG and ZR have no room for my tall butt.
My 33 is deep and fat. I want to go faster yet not buy a new boat cost wise.

Jamie, we will talk soon, and if I select you (which I will) you will be the biggest guy on the internet if you do my Z-RATED right.

Love this site, and as I said earlier, not asking this question anywhere else. I want to hear from people I have read about and
known for years!

I was here in 2000 and have made many contributions here.

Thanks everyone, and all posts are welcome.

Bryan

LKSD
09-07-2009, 05:47 PM
All great input, every post helps me. I know most cannot understand what transition is from the military.
Now I have a great retirement on top of a great job/salary.
I am trying to make a smart decision.
For the last couple years I thought a 38 was my answer, the TG and ZR have no room for my tall butt.
My 33 is deep and fat. I want to go faster yet not buy a new boat cost wise.
Jamie, we will talk soon, and if I select you (which I will) you will be the biggest guy on the internet if you do my Z-RATED right.
Love this site, and as I said earlier, not asking this question anywhere else. I want to hear from people I have read about and
known for years!
I was here in 2000 and have made many contributions here.
Thanks everyone, and all posts are welcome.
Bryan

Cool, I will catch up with you this week.. Hope you all had a great holiday.. I ended up working, but the weather was pretty good for a change.. :) Jamie / Lakeside

Bryan Tuvell 33ZX
09-07-2009, 06:02 PM
It was a slow weekend for us. Was going to put the boat away but decided to do it in October.

In fact I am about to call you!
B

mrfixxall
09-07-2009, 06:21 PM
It was a slow weekend for us. Was going to put the boat away but decided to do it in October.
In fact I am about to call you!
B

Bryan thease seem interesting...and are real close i think to you..

http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/swap-shop/216395-hp-500s-efi.html

LKSD
09-07-2009, 06:39 PM
It was a slow weekend for us. Was going to put the boat away but decided to do it in October.
In fact I am about to call you!
B

Im wondering when I should winterize my new one.. lol I am hoping to get out 1 more time before I rip into it for the winter.

I would be glad to chat with you tomorrow, I can give you a shout then.. The wife wants me to take off the last 4.5hrs of the labor day weekend to watch some movies with her.. Woo hoo.. lol :D Jamie / Lakeside

mike o
09-07-2009, 07:05 PM
Bryan,their is a guy up in maine with a pair of 525's cheap!! i seen thease engines months ago and since he lowered the price to 7500 each..thew were new,the boat they were in was in a barn that caught fire then someone ransacked the boat and stole a bunch of parts off the engines leaving the long blocks..heres the link, a machine shop owns then and he garentees they are new..he also has cmi headers that may go with it..

http://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/boa/1296544341.htmlDorr's Marine Engines, Windham, Maine 207-892-5145. Nice guy, straight shotter, His boat was in the barn too. I was at his shop this summer. Im pretty sure his name is Tim