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View Full Version : Good Day @ Put-in-Bay :)



Carl C
08-12-2009, 06:34 PM
My original crew bailed so I got a couple of other friends to go along. What an awesome day! Lake Erie was a little rough heading in but had calmed down by the time we left PIB (4:15). The 80 mile run home was the best water I have ever run on Lake Erie, the Detroit River and Lake St. Clair. I think we averaged 70 mph all the way back with some bursts to near 80. Played around on St. Clair for awhile and decided to take a pee break before calling it a day when up pulls a little Sunsation. I told him we were fine and thanks for checking but it turns out he was calling me out! I guess he felt lucky, hehehe :). I smoked him 3 times. Didn't have my gps recall on but he said he topped 76. He had a home built 502. We both had 3 good size dudes in our boats. I probably hit 80. What a way to end one of my most memorable boating days ever:). Cheers:beer:.

BlownCrewCab
08-12-2009, 06:52 PM
Great, The good days make the bad memories of the bad days go away. I'm glad you finally got one of the days you have been looking for.

cherry82482
08-12-2009, 07:42 PM
Sorry Carl,

Yes everyone, I was part of the original crew that bailed on the put-in bay trip. I promise that next time I will have my tow vehicle and "sick day" planned better. You called me out and I didn't make the call :frown:. Did you launch your boat at the DNR ramp at Selfridge air base?

Carl C
08-12-2009, 07:59 PM
Sorry Carl,

Yes everyone, I was part of the original crew that bailed on the put-in bay trip. I promise that next time I will have my tow vehicle and "sick day" planned better. You called me out and I didn't make the call :frown:. Did you launch your boat at the DNR ramp at Selfridge air base?

I didn't mean you or Mick, I meant my friends who were going to go with me in my boat. At the last minute they couldn't make it. That was not directed at you at all. I used the regular ramp because my friends live near by it and it was easier for today. They got in free too. I will check out the other ramp though.

cherry82482
08-12-2009, 08:07 PM
carl,

No hard feelings at all. I'm disappointed in myself for not being able to go , not at you. Don't be so caring, I'm not sensitive!! You have the right to call us out sometimes. It keeps everyone on there toes.

Just Say N20
08-12-2009, 08:52 PM
I love a story with a happy engine, I mean ending! :yes:

I'm sure the last thing Mr. Sunsation thought was that a Classic 22 Donzi was going to run 80 mph!

Sounds like a GREAT day.

Carl C
08-12-2009, 08:55 PM
carl,

No hard feelings at all. I'm disappointed in myself for not being able to go , not at you. Don't be so caring, I'm not sensitive!! You have the right to call us out sometimes. It keeps everyone on there toes.

I still wasn't calling you out :). If you can't make it, you can't make it. There were some questions about how this would go this morning. There were clouds that weren't supposed to be there and Lake Erie was a mess for about 20 miles. Then the day turned beautiful, you just never know.

BigGrizzly
08-13-2009, 09:19 AM
Carl it sounds like a good day and the engine is in good shape. This happens when you pay attention to the gauges.

Sweet Cheekz
08-13-2009, 11:06 AM
This happens when you pay attention to the gauges.

So does not finishing two poker runs in a row:boggled:

No big motor repair bill either I guess. :yes:

Carl
sounds like a fun trip Not one for my 16 but next year the 21 should be ready to run with you. Plus it would be a task for me to average 70 in the 16 for 80 miles in waves:eek:

Parnell

Rootsy
08-13-2009, 11:13 AM
Plus it would be a task for me to average 70 in the 16 for 80 miles in waves:eek:

Parnell

Your kidneys would not thank you....

jvcobra
08-13-2009, 01:05 PM
I'm calling BS on averaging 70 mph on an 80 mile run, sorry.

Sweet Cheekz
08-13-2009, 06:46 PM
Your kidneys would not thank you....
Nor anything else on me I'm sure :boggled:
SC

Carl C
08-13-2009, 07:42 PM
I'm calling BS on averaging 70 mph on an 80 mile run, sorry.

Well, duh, it'll only do 65 on a good day. 100%:yes:.

There were lots of kidney breaks;).

Dr. David Fleming
08-14-2009, 11:09 AM
THis is no bs, if the water calms, like a good summer evening. You can fly the Detroit River and Lake St. Clair and Erie. I have lived on the Lake my entire life, it can be rough all summer - then calm at evening. On week days the Detroit Meto population is not on the water. I have run the entire trip on the redline. The Donzi 22ZX with 502 MAG MPI will do 79.8 GPS engine 5400 rpm on a good day.

I have often felt guilty doing this. Donzi owners manual says not to run full out for more than few minutes at a time. Does anyone besides Carl C have experience doing long distance running at speed like this? Donzi is an off shore ocean going boat - I would assume especially with the bigger hulls which tax their engines more - that this is fairly common.

By the way, you can't drive a car from Lake St. Clair to Lake Erie this quickly - Coast Guard Helicoptor can do it I bet. Detroit was founded in the 1700's as a water community and it is still the fastest way to everywhere.

Dr. D

fogducker III
08-14-2009, 11:31 AM
During our last west coast poker run here I ran my boat ALL day between 4800 and 5000rpm.........:eek: I guess about 65-70mph just to keep up with the pack. Approx. 6-7hrs of running time with a break for lunch and a few minutes between each of the five stops, motor did not miss a beat....

I guess the whole route was about 90-100 miles. :lookaroun:

mattyboy
08-14-2009, 11:48 AM
we ran the cig19 sbc 350 at 4800 to 5000 for around 1 hour or 50 miles of a 70 mile run on the ohio river back a few years ago at the cig 20 run then repeated the next day on the return trip. as fog said we needed to to keep up

we did this again a year later up at lake george with the big boys we didn't keep up but we didn't get passed by the next group. in not so calm waters not quite as far either maybe 40 miles with breaks for card stops

Dr. David Fleming
08-14-2009, 12:38 PM
Redline for 502 is suposed to be 4800 to 5000. Redline for 500EFI is supposed to be 5000 to 5200. These engines use the same GM engine block. The 525 is a special Mercury Racing engine with aftermarket connecting rods and is really a world different that the Mercruiser stuff. The GM engine is the foundation for all these motors.

Most folks can't get a fuel injection motor to run over the redline because the CPU computor shuts it down. The carburated engines will run as fast as you prop them. Get the prop out of the water or blow it out and engine speed can go out of sight. Still depends on if it has CPU ignition which limits the rpm. Car engines can run in the 6000 rpm range but who drives their car at 6000rpm redline?

If Teague or Tyler Crockett or Nickerson or Trenton tunes your CPU computor then the redline is where they set it. Those big GM engines stroking at full tilt have to be in the "high wear mode." But man! thats where off shore boats live. Tyler stays in business freshening up off shore engines for the boys. $4000 to $10,000 at a crack! 525 is just that more expensive.

I hear GM went out of production on the 496 that is why they were using all the crappy cast cranks and cast pistons on the last 496HO engines. Thankfully the 502 is produced aftermarket and I guess Merc Racing is getting all the 502 stuff from Dart engine in Detroit - now that mother GM is in cardiac arrest.

Tyler was telling me 300 hours is a long life for an off shore big block.

Dr. D

Rootsy
08-14-2009, 01:05 PM
I want to know how a 22 zx with a stock 502 MPI will run a tick under 80 mph....

Carl C
08-14-2009, 01:17 PM
Doc, I was advised by a lot of people to not invest in building up the 496. Since mine is a newer model 22C that came with closed cooling and EFI I wanted to keep the new engine up to par with the boat and that is why I chose the 525. I used to cruise with the 496 just over 4,000 rpms. The 525 being a hand assembled "racing engine" with top shelf internals I don't see why it can't cruise at 4,500 rpms or maybe a bit more. I do vary the speed with occasional bursts of full throttle and backing down occasionally. I don't know what speed I averaged but we were moving right along. I will add that to my list of things not to estimate; Right under wave height!

chappy
08-14-2009, 01:54 PM
I want to know how a 22 zx with a stock 502 MPI will run a tick under 80 mph....

I was curious about this also. Unless it's had some serious work done to it and I missed the post.

Rootsy
08-14-2009, 01:56 PM
I was curious about this also. Unless it's had some serious work done to it and I missed the post.

Griz can tell us exactly what it takes... :wink:

jvcobra
08-14-2009, 03:01 PM
LOL! I was just busting you. When I run 70 it feels like there's only 2" of hull in the water and I have too look out for wakes or I'm going flying. Couldn't image running that fast for that long without going nuts.


Doc, I was advised by a lot of people to not invest in building up the 496. Since mine is a newer model 22C that came with closed cooling and EFI I wanted to keep the new engine up to par with the boat and that is why I chose the 525. I used to cruise with the 496 just over 4,000 rpms. The 525 being a hand assembled "racing engine" with top shelf internals I don't see why it can't cruise at 4,500 rpms or maybe a bit more. I do vary the speed with occasional bursts of full throttle and backing down occasionally. I don't know what speed I averaged but we were moving right along. I will add that to my list of things not to estimate; Right under wave height!

Dr. David Fleming
08-14-2009, 05:35 PM
May, Tyler Crockett puts CMI headers on the 502 MAG MPI in the Donzi 22ZX. We launch the boat in the St. Clair River at Port Huron. Tyler has his laptop on the engine and is in the back seat. "Run at 3000, run at 4000, run at 5000 he says." I ask him what the lap top says. He answers, man this engine sure needs a lot more fuel with these headers I had to richen the entire fuel map.

"How fast were we going." I had Tylers GPS in my shirt pocket, says 78.9 GPS. This little orange Velocity from Canada has been running the river with us and so Tyler takes the wheel. We race north and finally pull over near the Black River, the Velociy comes over with hatch up and wants to know what power we have. "502 MAG MPI with CMI headers" I tell him, what you running, "502 with wipple supercharger" he says. "I was going to have Tyler Crockett do it but did it myself." I said, "This is Tyler in the boat with me."

I said to Tyler when we left, "nice Velocity." Tyler says, "nice blond he had in the front seat. If he wanted to go fast he should have brought it to me. There Doc, I won the first race of the season for ya."

Oh yah,

boxy
08-14-2009, 07:14 PM
I want to know how a 22 zx with a stock 502 MPI will run a tick under 80 mph....

May, Tyler Crockett puts CMI headers on the 502 MAG MPI in the Donzi 22ZX. We launch the boat in the St. Clair River at Port Huron. Tyler has his laptop on the engine and is in the back seat. "Run at 3000, run at 4000, run at 5000 he says." I ask him what the lap top says. He answers, man this engine sure needs a lot more fuel with these headers I had to richen the entire fuel map.

"How fast were we going." I had Tylers GPS in my shirt pocket, says 78.9 GPS. This little orange Velocity from Canada has been running the river with us and so Tyler takes the wheel. We race north and finally pull over near the Black River, the Velociy comes over with hatch up and wants to know what power we have. "502 MAG MPI with CMI headers" I tell him, what you running, "502 with wipple supercharger" he says. "I was going to have Tyler Crockett do it but did it myself." I said, "This is Tyler in the boat with me."

I said to Tyler when we left, "nice Velocity." Tyler says, "nice blond he had in the front seat. If he wanted to go fast he should have brought it to me. There Doc, I won the first race of the season for ya."

Oh yah,


The quote below is from the owner of the only 22ZX I have first hand experience with. Seems like he wasted a whole lot of money building a 570 HP 5lb boost motor to run 3.1 mph faster than a stock 502.....




The 22 ZX runs out of room real quick, I had 570 Hp in my 1998 22 ZX with a supercharger and hydraulic steering even when I changed the pulley to get more boost my boat ran 82mph with the bigger pulley at 5lbs boost and with the smaller pulley at 13psi that I ran once she hit 90 but the boat was totally out of control, In order for the boat to over 90 she would need large K planes an extension box on the drive, the step hull isn't even an issue the boat runs out of hull.


Doc, so you were 78.9 running South, how fast were you running North???


The Detroit and St. Clair Rivers drain Lake Huron through Lake St. Clair and into Lake Erie. These big flows are important corridors for commercial shipping. When wind batters the shorelines of Lake Huron and Lake St. Clair, murky water drains quickly into these rivers.
The Detroit River is about 32 miles long with an average current speed of about 2 mph, while the St. Clair is about 39 miles long with an average current speed of about 5 mph. Subsequently, they do drain and clear quickly.

So does 73.9mph down river adjusted speed make more sense ????

Dr. David Fleming
08-14-2009, 08:57 PM
Yah, current, barametric pressure, temperature and the forces of karma make speed on any car, bike, plane, boat a variable thing. It don't take much to lay down the cash and go fast - any fool can do it. The ZX is fairly consistent, but its faster in the rough water than the smooth. It will hit the upper 70's regularly enough.

The important thing, guys is are ya having fun? I like the wind, the waves, the 22ZX is a great boat for me, it flys the rough and handles the Detroit River with all its waves and wakes, yet it goes to my cottage on Mullett Lake and can sneek into the shallow bay where I have my waterfront in 36 some inches of water. Its a thrill to run the wake disapearing in the distance. I love the 502 duel throttle assembly gives me such control, the quadrant moves most of its distance hardly opening then pops the second throttle for power. I can dial any minute amount of throttle to handle wave conditions. The Mercury K-Planes are magic carpet wings - it will plane as low as 20 mph - gets the bow down in all kinds of water for a smoothe ride so it shines in the chop without pounding my teeth out. Great paint job red with checkerd flag down the side - I like it!

Best of all it's stock with great fuel capacity and range and I can trust it to my two sons with out worrying they will kill themselves. Designed for any numskull to handle - the local Mercury dealer can handle it - for Christ sake its a Mercruiser.

Dr. D

Dr. David Fleming
08-14-2009, 09:05 PM
Yah, current, barametric pressure, temperature and the forces of karma make speed on any car, bike, plane, boat a variable thing. It don't take much to lay down the cash and go fast - any fool can do it. The ZX is fairly consistent, but its faster in the rough water than the smooth. It will hit the upper 70's regularly enough.

The important thing, guys is are ya having fun? I like the wind, the waves, the 22ZX is a great boat for me, it flys the rough and handles the Detroit River with all its waves and wakes, yet it goes to my cottage on Mullett Lake and can sneek into the shallow bay where I have my waterfront in 36 some inches of water. Its a thrill to run the wake disapearing in the distance. I love the 502 duel throttle assembly gives me such control, the quadrant moves most of its distance hardly opening then pops the second throttle for power. I can dial any minute amount of throttle to handle wave conditions. The Mercury K-Planes are magic carpet wings - it will plane as low as 20 mph - gets the bow down in all kinds of water for a smoothe ride so it shines in the chop without pounding my teeth out. Great paint job red with checkerd flag down the side - I like it!

Best of all it's stock with great fuel capacity and range and I can trust it to my two sons with out worrying they will kill themselves. Designed for any numskull to handle - the local Mercury dealer can handle it - for Christ sake its a Mercruiser.

Dr. D

HOWARD O
08-15-2009, 05:37 AM
Yah, current, barametric pressure, temperature and the forces of karma make speed on any car, bike, plane, boat a variable thing. It don't take much to lay down the cash and go fast - any fool can do it. The ZX is fairly consistent, but its faster in the rough water than the smooth. It will hit the upper 70's regularly enough.

The important thing, guys is are ya having fun? I like the wind, the waves, the 22ZX is a great boat for me, it flys the rough and handles the Detroit River with all its waves and wakes, yet it goes to my cottage on Mullett Lake and can sneek into the shallow bay where I have my waterfront in 36 some inches of water. Its a thrill to run the wake disapearing in the distance. I love the 502 duel throttle assembly gives me such control, the quadrant moves most of its distance hardly opening then pops the second throttle for power. I can dial any minute amount of throttle to handle wave conditions. The Mercury K-Planes are magic carpet wings - it will plane as low as 20 mph - gets the bow down in all kinds of water for a smoothe ride so it shines in the chop without pounding my teeth out. Great paint job red with checkerd flag down the side - I like it!

Best of all it's stock with great fuel capacity and range and I can trust it to my two sons with out worrying they will kill themselves. Designed for any numskull to handle - the local Mercury dealer can handle it - for Christ sake its a Mercruiser.

Dr. D


Sounds like you're having fun! :thumbsup:

Tell us more, got any photos? :popcorn:

Carl C
08-19-2009, 08:37 PM
Went back again today. The water was kicking up on the way home but I really like this 160 mile round trip PIB run :).

This tall ship arrived in full sail and fired a fake cannon shot as it entered the harbor. You've gotta love this place!

CHACHI
08-20-2009, 06:05 AM
Went back again today. The water was kicking up on the way home but I really like this 160 mile round trip PIB run :).

This tall ship arrived in full sail and fired a fake cannon shot as it entered the harbor. You've gotta love this place!

I beleive that is the tall ship Niagra. It dropped anchor in front of my camp a while back and the "crew", teenagers, went swimming for a while. A whole mess 'o boats went out for closer inspection, myself included.

It then sailed to Oswego (NY) Harbor for "Harborfest".

Ken

Carl C
08-20-2009, 08:26 AM
I beleive that is the tall ship Niagra. It dropped anchor in front of my camp a while back and the "crew", teenagers, went swimming for a while. A whole mess 'o boats went out for closer inspection, myself included.

It then sailed to Oswego (NY) Harbor for "Harborfest".

Ken

Niagra was the name of the warship that William Perry used to defeat the British in a decisive battle near PIB in the War of 1812 so that would be fitting. I assume it's a reproduction.

BTW, I am so sore today! Really took a beating on that return run.

Mr X
08-20-2009, 03:03 PM
Doctor,
what is a computor? :confused:

Dr. David Fleming
08-20-2009, 10:07 PM
Carl,

I've been working for a couple of days - likely to be on St. Clair on Friday - were you lucky to see the Niagra in sail! This is the real ship, at least some is supposed to be. They sank it for a breakwater in the last century and then dug it out. They restored it to what they think it is suposed to look like - given, no photos in 1812. I saw it in the Detroit river a couple of years ago. Sweet!

Dr. D

Carl C
08-21-2009, 07:28 AM
Carl,

I've been working for a couple of days - likely to be on St. Clair on Friday - were you lucky to see the Niagra in sail! This is the real ship, at least some is supposed to be. They sank it for a breakwater in the last century and then dug it out. They restored it to what they think it is suposed to look like - given, no photos in 1812. I saw it in the Detroit river a couple of years ago. Sweet!

Dr. D

Yes, we were lucky to see it arrive in full sail for one of it's two visits to PIB this year. But then you will always see something cool there! If not tied up at the gas dock I'd have gone out to get pics of it with the sails up. Don't sweat the "computor" thing. The ship is actually the Niagara. Like the falls, not the pills;).