B-W Velvet Drive Trans. Issues

[silverghost]

Hi Guys:
I have a Borg`Warner 72C transmission in my 454 Cu In skier that has a severe delay going into foreward. Sometimes engine needs to be pushed up to 1000 RPM before it will engage! Reverse is fine !
This will eventually destroy the transmission & damper plate!
3300 cable adjustment is fine as valve lever goes into detent position in both directions. Changed fluid with new Dex III to proper hot level after just shutting down engine & quickly checking fluid level before it drains into oil cooler. The fluid looks normal with no foaming.
I have 1300 ruinning hours on the engine so I suspect I need to rebuilld the Velvet Drive.
Just got a complete master rebuild kit with foreward & reverse clutches, snap rings, seals, o-rings, gaskets etc.
There are more clutch rings in this kit than in the existing transmission.
At least that is what the B-W data sheet says for my searial and model # .
I also have several Borg-Warner service manuals.
My question is this...
Can more clutches be installed in each clutch can stack than it has now in each stack?
or
Should I only use the same number as original?
What advantage would more clutches in the stack give me? (assuming more can in fact be installed!)
Why would the foreward clutch direction only be giving me trouble now?
I assume a worn rubber foreward clutch inner lip seal or outer piston lip seal ! ?
What can I do I now, if anything, to get the Summer season out of my boat beforea fall transmission rebuild?
Would some sort of higher viscosity thicker fluid help as a short term "Band-Aid"?
The B-W instructions say Dex II or III.
This boat is no fun to drive or dock wth this foreward clutch engaugement delay!
It can scare the devil out of you!
Thank"s
Brad Hunter

[olredalert]

------Brad,,,Personally, I would call Bam and ask them your questions as I believe they know a bit about BWs.........Bill S

[mrfixxall]

Hi Guys:
I have a Borg`Warner 72C transmission in my 454 Cu In skier that has a severe delay going into foreward. Sometimes engine needs to be pushed up to 1000 RPM before it will engage! Reverse is fine !
3300 cable adjustment is fine as valve lever goes into detent position in both directions. Changed fluid with new Dex III to proper hot level after just shutting down engine & quickly checking fluid level before it drains into oil cooler. The fluid looks normal with no foaming.
I have 1300 ruinning hours on the engine so I suspect I need to rebuilld the Velvet Drive.
Just got a complete master rebuild kit with foreward & reverse clutches, snap rings, seals, o-rings, gaskets etc.
There are more clutch rings in this kit than in the existing transmission.
I also have several Borg-Warner service manuals.
My question is this...
Can more clutches be installed in the each clutch can stack than it has now in ea


or
Should I only use the same number as original?
What advantage would more clutches in the stack give me? (assuming more can in fact be installed!)
Why would the foreward clutch direction only be giving me trouble now?
What canI do I now, if anything, to get the Summer season out of my boat beforea fall trnsmission rebuild?
Would some sort of higher viscosity thicker fluid help as a short term "Band-Aid"?
This boat is no fun to drive or dock wth this foreward clutch engaugement delay!
It can scare the devil out of you!
Thank"s
Brad Hunter

i think your soppose to use f type fluid with friction materal in it? scroll down to page 15..


http://www.marineryachts.com/borg_manual.pdf

[BigGrizzly]

Yes more plates can be used but what is the point. Type F should be used according to Tom Huber before he retired. Now for bam he will charge big time. You can have it done much cheaper at a good dealer of inbords.

[BUIZILLA]

I have an extremely good BW tech on the payroll

[olredalert]

------Wow Buizy!!!,,,,,Wish I would have known that when I stepped up and paid $3000 to get my BWs rebuilt and all heavy-dutied up for use in the Spit. I mean, I think I got a good job,but with you I know I would have!!! :bonk: .......Bill S

[BigGrizzly]

Garry went through the same issue with Bam and they are friends. He opped to get the kit and do it himself. 3 hours later it was done.BTW Trans was out of the boat. He said it was the easiest trans he ever built. "No wonder they are so good". They are simple and strong.

[silverghost]

Guys:
I have no doubt I can rebuild this B-W trans myself.
Years ago I did just that on an old 70 series in a Graymarine fireball 327.
The problem here is this is the middle of my boating season & the boat is in my rented boatslip.
I would like to get the season out of the boat if possible before a rebuild.
I need to lift the engine partially out of the boat to remove the warner gear!
I thought a higher viscosity thicker fluid might help slow-up the internal leakage as a "Band-Aid]' fix ! ?
Is there any auto trans fluid that is thicker than Dex III ?
Possibly a truck or heavy equipment fluid?
The warner gear manual says you can run just about any fluid in this gear. Motor oil can be used in a pinch; so I just might try that If I cannot find a thicker trans fluid!
By the way I cheked pressures on the external ports on the case and the foreward clutch pressures are low at idle .
I also wondered if more puttng foreward clutches in the clutchpack, if this can be done, might help me run more horsepower as my engine is no longer stock as built.
I should have beefed-up the warner gear when I did the engine HP mods !
Does anyone know where to get better clutches than the stock Borg-Warner (now Regal-Beloit ) cutches in my rebuild kit?
I know the boat performance transmission rebuilders do not use stock Velvet Drive clutch packs .

BRAD

[BUIZILLA]

type FA is your best bet unless you want to get the CAT trans fluid which is pretty good stuff... Dex III and any synthetic blend will only make it slip worse...

[silverghost]

Put some name-brand 100,000 fluid for older high mileage cars in it.
I would guess it swells the old rubber seals & has some sort of leak-stop in it also.
Viscosity seems thicker too!
B/W Velvet Drive seems to go into foreward much better now.
I usually don't like these sort of transmission repair in a bottle sort of "snake-Oil" produts.~
BUT...
This should work well until I pull the Velvet Drive for a proper re-build in OCT!
By then the seals will be shot !
I plan to replace all clutches & seals & o-rings + gaskets!
Does anyone know If I can add additional clutch rings in the same old clutch can pack?
OR~
Should I use the same number as I take out ?
Is there a high performance master re-building kit out there that is better than the stock B/W (Regal-Beloit) Velvet Drive rebuilding kit?
Possible better higher HP clutch material ?
I am running 500 HP now on this old warner 72C drive !
Brad Hunter

[olredalert]

-----You can add clutch discs to amp up your B/W. My guy up here did it with Bam parts. Buizillas guy will point you the right way.........Bill S

[mrfixxall]

Put some name-brand 100,000 fluid for older high mileage cars in it.
I would guess it swells the old rubber seals & has some sort of leak-stop in it also.
Viscosity seems thicker too!
B/W Velvet Drive seems to go into foreward much better now.
I usually don't like these sort of transmission repair in a bottle sort of "snake-Oil" produts.~
BUT...
This should work well until I pull the Velvet Drive for a proper re-build in OCT!
By then the seals will be shot !
I plan to replace all clutches & seals & o-rings + gaskets!
Does anyone know If I can add additional clutch rings in the same old clutch can pack?
OR~
Should I use the same number as I take out ?
Is there a high performance master re-building kit out there that is better than the stock B/W (Regal-Beloit) Velvet Drive rebuilding kit?
Possible better highrer HP clutch material ?
I am running 500 HP now on this old warner 72C drive !
Brad Hunter

theirs also a friction multifier additive that chryler uses in their transmissions that you can get at your local ap store,,that might help extend the bandade:)

[HallJ]

Here you go: http://www.hubermarine.com/

Earl can answer all of your questions.
A great company to deal with.

Jeff