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View Full Version : Hardware/Fasteners that Don't $uck



Ghost
08-05-2009, 01:27 PM
Been meaning to ask this for a while and my current project reminded me. I've bought more than my share of stuff from Home Depot. I get a lot of mileage out of the place, but their nuts/bolts/washers section drives me nuts. When I was a kid, I never had the problem of shearing off bolt heads without even trying. If I were all pumped up or something, maybe it'd make me feel good about myself. But there is some seriously substandard material mixed in to all that hardware, and I don't trust it for marine and other mission-critiical applications.

I have had decent luck with West Marine's stuff so far, but it isn't a very extensive collection. Figure some of the gearheads around here must have found some suppliers, on the Net or local, who do good business with good quality stuff.

Thanks, all info appreciated.

Mike

MOP
08-05-2009, 01:34 PM
To me this is the only place to get true quality, also as far as I know they are the only ones licensed by ARP to sell their grade 8 hardware. Every last bolt & nut in and on my stroker motor I got from them.

http://www.totallystainless.com/

gcarter
08-05-2009, 03:16 PM
Lowes does a lot better in presentation and quality.

handfulz28
08-05-2009, 05:00 PM
There's also McMaster-Carr, if you're purchasing a decent quantity. http://www.mcmaster.com/#

Check the local phone directory for a fastener-only distributor.

Cuda
08-05-2009, 05:14 PM
A Grade 8 bolt is stronger than stainless, and rusts slower than cheper steel.

gcarter
08-05-2009, 05:20 PM
The local fastener venders usually only want to sell in qty's of C or more.
Mc Master is a good source and will sell in qty's of 10 or so. Fast too.
I've ordered on line after 4:00 PM and got them by UPS @ 11:00 AM the next day!
That's service. :yes:

Ranman
08-05-2009, 08:24 PM
95% of all fasteners are made overseas in Asia and are generic import items. There is no specific manufacturer or brand and you kind of get what you get. Different US distributors wil use different suppliers so you just need to find someone who has product you like. There are a few exceptions to this such as Holo-Krome and Unbrako, but these US manufacturers specialize only in high quality socket cap products which are of little use to us boaters.

You should remember that stainless fasteners are "soft" compared to their steel counterparts and therefore break much easier. There's a bit of a learning curve associated with using SS hardware. As always, be sure to understand the differences between 18-8, 304, 316, etc so you make the right choice for the application. Also, if you are not already familiar you should do some research on the steel grades of fasteners such as Grade 5 and Grade 8 and their associated markings.

Like someone mentioned, Lowes does a better job with fasteners than HD, both in organization/presentation and selection. Neither have an extensive collection of SS hardware though.

McMaster, while admittedly fast is way overpriced. They have a good selection and lots and lots of different little hardware "trinkets" found on boats. If you need it quick and money is no issue, McMaster is an OK source. My biggest peeve is that McM will hit you with individual freight charges if your items are backordered or come from different warehouses. I've had $15.00 orders doubled due to two separate shipping charges.

Grainger is similar to McMaster. Grainger has recently added thousands of fastener items to their catalog so their offering has improved greatly over the last 24 months. One benefit to Grainger is that they usually have a brick and mortar store somewhere nearby and if it's in stock there, you can go pick the items up.

Fastenal, known for it's over 1800 store locations is another option. Fastenal does more than fasteners, they are a general MRO distributor. There is most likely a Fastenal store somewhere in your neighborhood. Fastenal will sell to the public, but unless you have a commercial account, their pricing is a bit high as well. Not as bad as McM or Grainger, but more than HD and Lowes.

Lastly, for local sources, you might want to hunt around your area for either a good old school hardware store. Sometimes these will have a great selection and good prices. Also, you might check the yellow pages for a commercial fastener distributor (usually tucked away in an industrial complex somewhere). Here in MI, I use Mid-States Bolt and Screw Co., Midwest Socket Cap Screw Co. or Michigan Fastener Co.

There are other significant fastener distributors out there, but they are focused on the commercial sector/industry. Companies like Barnes Distribution, Kimball Midwest, General Fastener Co., Motion Industries and Applied Industrial.

For anyone who os wondering, I am a Purchasing Manager for a company that specializes in outsourced MRO purchasing. I have been an MRO fastener buyer (among other things) for over 11 years. :wink:

Ghost
08-05-2009, 11:08 PM
Thanks for all the replies. I will admit I don't know enough to know differences between stainless grades, or grade5, or grade8, and when to use what. I did know stainless was generally not as strong, but that's about it.

Conquistador_del_mar
08-06-2009, 12:15 AM
95% of all fasteners are made overseas in Asia and are generic import items. There is no specific manufacturer or brand and you kind of get what you get. Different US distributors wil use different suppliers so you just need to find someone who has product you like. There are a few exceptions to this such as Holo-Krome and Unbrako, but these US manufacturers specialize only in high quality socket cap products which are of little use to us boaters.

You should remember that stainless fasteners are "soft" compared to their steel counterparts and therefore break much easier. There's a bit of a learning curve associated with using SS hardware. As always, be sure to understand the differences between 18-8, 304, 316, etc so you make the right choice for the application. Also, if you are not already familiar you should do some research on the steel grades of fasteners such as Grade 5 and Grade 8 and their associated markings.

Like someone mentioned, Lowes does a better job with fasteners than HD, both in organization/presentation and selection. Neither have an extensive collection of SS hardware though.

McMaster, while admittedly fast is way overpriced. They have a good selection and lots and lots of different little hardware "trinkets" found on boats. If you need it quick and money is no issue, McMaster is an OK source. My biggest peeve is that McM will hit you with individual freight charges if your items are backordered or come from different warehouses. I've had $15.00 orders doubled due to two separate shipping charges.

Grainger is similar to McMaster. Grainger has recently added thousands of fastener items to their catalog so their offering has improved greatly over the last 24 months. One benefit to Grainger is that they usually have a brick and mortar store somewhere nearby and if it's in stock there, you can go pick the items up.

Fastenal, known for it's over 1800 store locations is another option. Fastenal does more than fasteners, they are a general MRO distributor. There is most likely a Fastenal store somewhere in your neighborhood. Fastenal will sell to the public, but unless you have a commercial account, their pricing is a bit high as well. Not as bad as McM or Grainger, but more than HD and Lowes.

Lastly, for local sources, you might want to hunt around your area for either a good old school hardware store. Sometimes these will have a great selection and good prices. Also, you might check the yellow pages for a commercial fastener distributor (usually tucked away in an industrial complex somewhere). Here in MI, I use Mid-States Bolt and Screw Co., Midwest Socket Cap Screw Co. or Michigan Fastener Co.

There are other significant fastener distributors out there, but they are focused on the commercial sector/industry. Companies like Barnes Distribution, Kimball Midwest, General Fastener Co., Motion Industries and Applied Industrial.

For anyone who os wondering, I am a Purchasing Manager for a company that specializes in outsourced MRO purchasing. I have been an MRO fastener buyer (among other things) for over 11 years. :wink:

Excellent information. I personally buy in bulk at Fastenal, but I also have a fastener store in my little hometown that usually has what I need or can get it for me in a couple days. This thread reminds me that I need to get some stainless. Bill

gcarter
08-06-2009, 06:36 AM
Actually, there're very few applications on our boats where a grade 8 fastener is needed. You'll know by looking at what you're replacing. Merc uses only a handful of grade 8 bolts in the engine or outdrive.
In 99% of applications, grade 5 is fine, or most any grade of SST.
If there's ever a question of strength and you're replacing a steel fastener /w SST, just go up a size if it's possible....like on the lifting eye brackets. Remember the area of the bolt goes up on the square of the diameter, so a small increase in diameter will result in a large increase in strength.

BTW, +1 for my local Ace Hdwr store.....but I;d go broke if I bought everything there.

Rootsy
08-06-2009, 07:44 AM
A quick chart or two...

Steels & Alloys

http://www.americanfastener.com/technical/grade_markings_steel.asp

Stainless & Non-Ferrous.

http://www.americanfastener.com/technical/non-ferrous.asp

Clamping load and fastener torque charts - print this.. keep it in your box.

http://www.imperialinc.com/pdf/A_FastenerTorqueCharts.pdf

Ghost
08-06-2009, 09:54 AM
These are great, just printed the whole set to keep handy.

Thanks to all, and just gotta say thanks again to Ranman--a ton of great info here, i was blown away.

Mike

justleft
08-06-2009, 02:48 PM
Bolt Depot

http://www.boltdepot.com/DefaultB.aspx

Cuda
08-06-2009, 03:02 PM
I doubt anybody on this board could twist the head off an old Ford head bolt. I know they were 11/16 heads and grade 8. Chevy uses a half inch head, and I can tell you for a fact they aren't hard to twist off. :(