19 donzi monza

[bzsmarina]

hello. i have a 19 1970 donzi monza. i just built the 351 ford up to about 400 - 450 hp. also upgraded the drive from the volvo 270 to a volvo 280t with trim. i have 2 questions. one does anyone have or know anyone selling headers for the 351? also i seem to have to much slip. even with the drive swap i have the same slip as the 270. both drives have nose cones on them. and both have same 1.61 gear ratio. i seem to have 20% slip. i run a 21 spinelli and a 26 volvo ultra both props seem to have the same slip? anyone know why or do all the volvos have the same slip? thanks bz

[BERTRAM BOY]

Okay, I'll bite. What the heck is a Donzi "Monza"?

[bzsmarina]

a donzi monza was made only a few years and had more freeboard and a little wider than a reg donzi. also has a spring in the front seats in the floor. so your guts dont get slammed. thay had a picture on this site sometime ago when one guy on here was putting up pictures of all th donzi`s made. i dont know if its still on here or not.

[BERTRAM BOY]

a donzi monza was made only a few years and had more freeboard and a little wider than a reg donzi. also has a spring in the front seats in the floor. so your guts dont get slammed. thay had a picture on this site sometime ago when one guy on here was putting up pictures of all th donzi`s made. i dont know if its still on here or not.

Actually, it was a rhetorical question. There's no such thing as a Donzi "Monza".

[bzsmarina]

donzi made monza. ya its not a donzi monza its a monza made by donzi. even the hull# is dnmc19004. when i called h&m he said he only riged 5 monza in 1970. it also has donzi marine all over the boat. on the hull # sticker & on the dash

[bzsmarina]

ill post pictures tonight as soon as i get home

[bzsmarina]

ill post pic`s tonight of the hull # sticker and of the boat. just wanted some help on my problems did not mean to upset anyone. sorry. where did you find that add? from what i was told witch may or may not be true that monza marine was a divsion of donzi like ford and mercury. but who knows all i know is i have a slip problem and seems to ride bow high. anyone with any more ideas would love to hear them. thanks for showing me that add it was awesome!

[chappy]

Could be a Dolphin or a Hi Miler.:)

[bzsmarina]

ouchhhhhhhhhhhhhhh just called cmi. wow 6 g`s for hearders for the 351w

[Sweet Cheekz]

ouchhhhhhhhhhhhhhh just called cmi. wow 6 g`s for hearders for the 351w

$2500 for the imco powerflow No hp loss and last a lot longer than cmi's They are not, however, nearly as pretty
Parnell

[f_inscreenname]

So little left to finish mine.
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/7474/46200235.jpg
The Monza Project (http://www.supernova19.com/forumcw/index.php?topic=759.0)

[Donzi_Dude]

So little left to finish mine.
[/URL]

great boats, website and youtube vids.

sorry to hear you having so many problems but that is the real world.

good luck!

:)

[bzsmarina]

here are a few pic`s. i think

[bzsmarina]

here are a pic`s of the hull # plate. notice the donzi marine on it.

[olredalert]

-----bzsmarina,,,I worked for DONZI and was a dealer all thru the 70s, and Im sorry to say that someone is pulling your leg. Monzas were nice boats and sort of looked similar to DONZI 21GTs, but thats where the buck stops. Monza and DONZI were never connected in any way. That DONZI sticker was pulled off another boat (a DONZI) and stuck on your Monza. The outer hull decals are later model 22 Classic decals and available any day of the week on E-bay. This in no way diminishes your boat except that it probably has more value as a Monza than a faux DONZI. Be proud of it as a Monza as they were good boats in their own right........Bill S

[bzsmarina]

i dont know what to tell you. i have had this boat sence 1988. you are right the stickers on the side are newer 22 ft stickers. i bought them from donzi in 1996 when i restored the boat because the monza stickers were not avalable. also the title states its a donzi. i got the boat from the 2nd owner and know personly the guy who bought it new to race. so i dont think anyone put the hull sticker on it. and yes you still can read it but i tryed to get better pic at the time but could not get it clear one. ill try again. all i can tell you is what it is.

[bzsmarina]

i was wrong on the hull id. you have me looking at the title and the # is c1923.

[mattyboy]

19-23 would be a benchseat hornet would it not????

[72Hornet]

Gentlemen, Monza as a different company all otgether and your boat is the same model as one that I owned last year. They were made in Hollywood Florida and used Holman Moody for their engines and drives. I believe that the boat was built with 11 molds. I found the build quality to be excellent. A few of them had jet drives. There is a paragraph in the Donzi book about Don trying out a customers Jet drive Monza and crashing it into a piling as it was a jet drive. It should have springs on the engine hatch that came of an early Chevy hood springs. They make the engine hatch open quite easily. The hull numbers on mine were printed (stamped) in the rear starboard corner of the engine hatch. I owned hull # 27 and mine was titled as a 1969. I was the third owner, the original owner shipped it to the Ozarks in 1969. They are an extremely well built boat and you should title it back to a Monza. I have the decals prints for the hull insignias as I made a second set. Ironically, mine had Donzi decals on the hull when I purchased it! Talk to Grizz on the prop selection, he is the man!

[72Hornet]

A few pictures...

[bzsmarina]

that one you had is different than mine it looks smaller the rear hatch it alot smaller, the top deck looks a bit different. was not here to argue with anyone.

[Just Say N20]

was not here to argue with anyone.

One of the down sides of written communication is that you can interpret what someone writes so many different ways. None of which may be the way the author intended.

You have a very cool boat, and you are rightfully proud of it. You believed it to be a Donzi Monza. One of the very cool things about this site is there are a few people whose history with Donzi goes WAY back, if not to the beginning, so they have a LOT of accurate knowledge about these boats and their history.

I don't think anyone was trying to argue with you, rather shed some light, or clarification regarding your boat. The person you bought it from most likely didn't know the difference, and sold the boat as he honestly believed it to be. You purchased it, and have enjoyed it since 1988. It is still the same boat it has always been. People on here have provided you with some clarification, that's all.

Unfortunately many of these boats were produced during a time when record keeping was a little more laid back, and they weren't required to have HULL ID NUMBERS in the hull, and there was a lot of "splashing" (making an exact copy of another manufacturer's hull, and making/selling your own version) of hulls.

This crowd tends to get what can be perceived as "defensive" when someone innocently comes to the site, and says, "Hey, new to the site, and check out my Donzi." The new person is surprised when rather than hugs and back slaps of "welcome to the club" they are promptly corrected about what they thought was a Donzi.

You aren't the first this has happened to, and won't be the last. Your boat is a very cool boat, and it looks like you have done very well with maintaining and upgrading it. You should be very proud!

Welcome to the board.

Bill

p.s. Sorry if I stated the obvious.

[bzsmarina]

on the plate all it has for hull id is c19 23 other than the drive #`s and the engine #`s ill try to get a better pic of it soon. i did tape it once and from what i rember is was 20. something but i can do it again. ill put up bigger pic`s of it too. as i said i know both owners before me. the first owner raced it for a few years and i have seen the trophlys he won with it. he also had a catalog for the new donzi`s in 1970 and it had donzi in front and monza in the back. ill try to get it and post it, if i can. so i do not see a reason to fug it. but who knows its 40 years old. just busy took off headers to cut the water flow down to 10%. had to hammer the hell out of it to get the riser off. damn you think for h&m thay be bigger inside only 2 inch 1/4. i am going to port the inside out now apart then repowdercoat them. see if it helps me out. not new to the site i been here sence 1999 when the site still had the registry. it was on there. i just cant rember my old password

[bzsmarina]

One of the down sides of written communication is that you can interpret what someone writes so many different ways. None of which may be the way the author intended.

You have a very cool boat, and you are rightfully proud of it. You believed it to be a Donzi Monza. One of the very cool things about this site is there are a few people whose history with Donzi goes WAY back, if not to the beginning, so they have a LOT of accurate knowledge about these boats and their history.

I don't think anyone was trying to argue with you, rather shed some light, or clarification regarding your boat. The person you bought it from most likely didn't know the difference, and sold the boat as he honestly believed it to be. You purchased it, and have enjoyed it since 1988. It is still the same boat it has always been. People on here have provided you with some clarification, that's all.

Unfortunately many of these boats were produced during a time when record keeping was a little more laid back, and they weren't required to have HULL ID NUMBERS in the hull, and there was a lot of "splashing" (making an exact copy of another manufacturer's hull, and making/selling your own version) of hulls.

This crowd tends to get what can be perceived as "defensive" when someone innocently comes to the site, and says, "Hey, new to the site, and check out my Donzi." The new person is surprised when rather than hugs and back slaps of "welcome to the club" they are promptly corrected about what they thought was a Donzi.

You aren't the first this has happened to, and won't be the last. Your boat is a very cool boat, and it looks like you have done very well with maintaining and upgrading it. You should be very proud!

Welcome to the board.

Bill

p.s. Sorry if I stated the obvious.
thank you very much. i have done everything on the boat myself. i love it and will never sell it, so its ( value ) means nothing to me. so it is what is is, what ever it is???? lol... all i can tell anyone is what was told to me. and i hold my head high as i drive it as others are rubber necking. just need to figure out a few probs i have with it right now. thanks for all the Complements!! bz

[Donzi Vol]

thank you very much. i have done everything on the boat myself. i love it and will never sell it, so its ( value ) means nothing to me. so it is what is is, what ever it is???? lol... all i can tell anyone is what was told to me. and i hold my head high as i drive it as others are rubber necking. just need to figure out a few probs i have with it right now. thanks for all the Complements!! bz

That's all that matters, my friend! :yes:

[Donzi_Dude]

i can vouch of the history of this boat. neither of the previous owners had any motivation to make somebody think the boat is something it is not. im 99.99% sure that nobody ever tampered with the hull sticker if thats even possible given the materials it made from.

im no Donzi expert but its clear the guru's are wrong and there was a connection between Donzi and Monza @ the time this boat was built and it may have come from the hornet mold. the way they where marketed was a cadilac compared to a chevy.


would "Donzi Baby" be caught riding in a fake Donzi, i think not.


:cool:

[mattyboy]

certainly not from any Hornet mold, the hornet is a hook mold look at the rocker in the hull of the monza no character line


what is the deadrise of the hull??

it is a great looking older boat that deserves to have it own history

hope you get your performance issues worked out


just spit balling but with all that rocker if she were mine i would scrap the volvo and look for an Arney ;)

[f_inscreenname]

You all need to talk to vRod. He has talked to the builder more then once and from what I understand Brownie is now working with him on some adventure.
The boat is it's own animal as much as my Nova19 is. Being everyone "borrowed" from everyone else you are always going to see something from another boat in the boat you are looking at. The Monza is like a Donzi but they are not Donzi. Think more of a European flair. But for the most part if something worked they used it. I do have to say I am very impressed with the boat I own (its a 1972). There is not a spot on the boat inside or out that is not gel coated. It has a nice slant in the front deck to give it a sporty look, seats 5 easy and the engine bay is big enough for a family of 4 with the motor. Very nice as I get older. :wink:

[bzsmarina]

certainly not from any Hornet mold, the hornet is a hook mold look at the rocker in the hull of the monza no character line


what is the deadrise of the hull??

it is a great looking older boat that deserves to have it own history

hope you get your performance issues worked out


just spit balling but with all that rocker if she were mine i would scrap the volvo and look for an Arney ;)
if the boat has a lot of rocker in it, wont that cleaver work better. i do want to buy the prop from you. i just need to finish a few things first. but i do want it.

[BUIZILLA]

im no Donzi expert but its clear the guru's are wrong and there was a connection between Donzi and Monza @ the time this boat was built and it may have come from the hornet mold. it's absolutely not from any Donzi Hornet mold that's for 110% certain... so until positive specific proof is offered other than heresay, i'll stick with our internal guru's opinion... :angel:

[joseph m. hahnl]

I think if you add A II "2" to the end of Hornet:wink:. It looks identical from the waste up. Can't see the bottom "but".
This is right from the model listing.http://www.donzi.net/dlist/index.htm (http://www.donzi.net/dlist/index.htm)
So either there is a Monza Listed as a Donzi hornet II :shocking:or it is the splitting image:eek:.

http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell518.jpg
http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=49065&stc=1&d=1249642481

[chappy]

I think if you add A II "2" to the end of Hornet:wink:. It looks identical from the waste up. Can't see the bottom "but".
This is right from the model listing.http://www.donzi.net/dlist/index.htm (http://www.donzi.net/dlist/index.htm)
So either there is a Monza Listed as a Donzi hornet II :shocking:or it is the splitting image:eek:.

http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell518.jpg
http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=49065&stc=1&d=1249642481
Now there's an apples to apples comparison.:tongue:

[BlownCrewCab]

The Molds had to go somewhere, I say Monza got them (but I ain't certain)

[olredalert]

------Monzas were being built long before DONZI quit building any of the hornet derivatives, so Im not sure that any molds went to Monza. Matter of fact, Im certain they didnt! My memory tells me that, while a good design, Monzas were their own design and stood alone. I always liked them, but they were simply not DONZI related, just similar looking. :frown: ..........Bill S

[tommymonza]

That Monza is a Monza. The strakes dead end into the chine like they do on bertrams and some Sutphens.

[mattyboy]

I think if you add A II "2" to the end of Hornet:wink:. It looks identical from the waste up. Can't see the bottom "but".
This is right from the model listing.http://www.donzi.net/dlist/index.htm (http://www.donzi.net/dlist/index.htm)
So either there is a Monza Listed as a Donzi hornet II :shocking:or it is the splitting image:eek:.

http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell518.jpg
http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=49065&stc=1&d=1249642481



Joe

please look at all the pictures the two hornets you posted look NOTHING LIKE the monza

again as I said note the character line a tell tale sign of hornet not present on the monza

also notice on the monza that there is a slight fairing around the cockpit that's is not on the hornets

again hull 19 23 could only be one of two things a benchseat hornet or a st tropez

even a 21gt has more freeboard than the monza

[joseph m. hahnl]

Joe

please look at all the pictures the two hornets you posted look NOTHING LIKE the monza

again as I said note the character line a tell tale sign of hornet not present on the monza

also notice on the monza that there is a slight fairing around the cockpit that's is not on the hornets

again hull 19 23 could only be one of two things a benchseat hornet or a st tropez

even a 21gt has more freeboard than the monza

Matty I was under the impression that the 2nd picture is a Monza and the first is a hornet. Not two hornets.


But this boat is definitely not the same hull and cover:kingme:

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/vrod02/royce4.jpg

[olredalert]

------No Joe,,,Those are two Hornets you have pictured there.......Bill S

[joseph m. hahnl]

------No Joe,,,Those are two Hornets you have pictured there.......Bill S

thank the the lord:bonk::bonk::bonk::bonk:


They look nothing alike:thewave::thewave::fam::thewave::thewave:

http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell518.jpg


http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/vrod02/royce4.jpg

[Donzi_Dude]

Lighten up man, just trying to figure out the history of the boat.. BUT....
Thats not a Hornet bottom..


sorry if i came ascross the wrong way. just trying to sort this out like the rest.

thanks for posting the pics. its easy to see that way. the keel has more slope as it nears the bow as i had suspected.



certainly not from any Hornet mold, the hornet is a hook mold look at the rocker in the hull of the monza no character line
what is the deadrise of the hull??


hee,hee,

i was just testing you.


:wink:

[bzsmarina]

Correct, no one is arguing, just trying to figure out your boat. I'd be real curious to see or at least read the rest of the numbers on the foil tag, as Matty said 19-23 should be a benchseat Hornet # but it also should be H19-23, not C..

Also, might be interesting to toss a tape on it and check the length. It looks different from any Monza hull already, more like a GT21, but if it is 19' well than hell, I'm stumped :) :)

Also, do you have larger pictures?? Site will accept them, it would be nice to see it closer please!
just took a tape to it, had my wife help me and it measured 20 foot 2 inches from rub rail to rub rail. width was 8 foot dead on rub rail to rub rail. also it has 24* dead rise. dont know if this helps or not. ill try tomorrow to take more pic`s.

[Sweet Cheekz]

Windsheild and dash in particular look a little like a 21gt

[bzsmarina]

if you as me it looks just like that boat chappy has set for his avatar. same bottem same rocker same freeboard.

[Just Say N20]

I can't see enough from Chappy's Avatar to see if the character line is on that hull.

[olredalert]

------Once again,,,The molds for the 21GT were being used by DONZI until way after the MONZAS were tooling around Biscayne Bay.........Bill S

[chappy]

Sorry guys, my avatar won't help, it's a Formula 233. Lot's of deep vees were inspired by that one.

[Donzi Vol]

Sorry guys, my avatar won't help, it's a Formula 233. Lot's of deep vees were inspired by that one.

And that's you running it in that pic, right chappy? :wink:

[mattyboy]

the gt is 21 feet 1 and one half inches long

can we put a rest to it

it is a monza a nice boat with great old school lines put in great shape by the owner
it's not a donzi

[mattyboy]

yes the cockpit does look gt ish except for the raised lip that goes around it
i know the gt has some what of a lip but the monza is more pronounced
look at the yellow one you can see it at the base of the windshield and on bz's you can see it also notice the lack of the lip on the last pic of a gt

[joseph m. hahnl]

:outtahere::thewave::rock:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEGj1g4bfFk

[f_inscreenname]

:outtahere::thewave::rock:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEGj1g4bfFk

I really need to finish that movie.:wink:

[Donzi_Dude]

i think its clear @ this point the Monza is its own aminal. whats not clear is its relationship to Donzi.

[Donzi_Dude]

hmmmm!
http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=38659&d=1221510972

[bzsmarina]

well i did some checking on the #`s on the sticker and thay all match. from the # on sticker and # on the plate on the bell housing. i also have my dad getting in touch with the first owner to see if he can get that catalog he has. if i get it ill post it. here are a bit better pic`s best i can do so far. engine # dohm-3188-1-r/w. the # on sticker is very hard to read i dont know if i can get it to show up, but the plate you can read good.

[BERTRAM BOY]

My records indicate that engine # dohm-3188-1-r/w came out of a twin engined 7 meter. This engine wasn't installed in your boat from the factory. Clearly your boat isn't a twin engined 7 meter.

[mattyboy]

3188 is a 302 not a 351w

[Donzi_Dude]

My records indicate that engine # dohm-3188-1-r/w came out of a twin engined 7 meter.

your records seem to be wrong, unless the 7 meter is hull ID c19-23.


:)

[BERTRAM BOY]

your records seem to be wrong, unless the 7 meter is hull ID c19-23.
:)

There is no such 7 meter as c19-23.

[BUIZILLA]

your records seem to be wrong, unless the 7 meter is hull ID c19-23.:) so we now have a hull sticker from c19-23 and an engine PLATE from a 23 7M.... :popcorn:

[Donzi_Dude]

so we now have a hull sticker from c19-23 and an engine PLATE from a 23 7M.... :popcorn:


no, we have a hull sticker and an eninge plate from a Monza 19 that MATCH!



:wink:

[mattyboy]

so we now have a hull sticker from c19-23 and an engine PLATE from a 23 7M.... :popcorn:
a 23 7 meter with 302's

[BERTRAM BOY]

no, we have a hull sticker and an eninge plate from a Monza 19 that MATCH!
:wink:

Actually, No they don't.

[Donzi_Dude]

Actually, No they don't.

why is that?



:popcorn:

[BUIZILLA]

so what was the engine package in 7M #19? :lookaroun:

[BERTRAM BOY]

why is that?
:popcorn:

My records indicate that engine # dohm-3188-1-r/w came out of a twin engined 7 meter. This engine wasn't installed in your boat from the factory. Clearly your boat isn't a twin engined 7 meter.

[Donzi_Dude]

My records indicate that engine # dohm-3188-1-r/w came out of a twin engined 7 meter. This engine wasn't installed in your boat from the factory. Clearly your boat isn't a twin engined 7 meter.


clearly your records are wrong because the engine # matches the enigine # on the hull sticker c19-23.


oh, and its not my boat.

[bzsmarina]

i thought it was my boat. but i just put up the pic to find out. it may have had a 302 in it i am not sure on that. the 2 owner of the boat is no longer with us. the drive was stolen and he had worked or changed the engine at that time.

[BERTRAM BOY]

The decal hasn't been presented in a legible manner. How do we know it matches?

I don't care who owns the boat. I'm interested in the boat being represented honestly and accurately.

[bzsmarina]

The decal hasn't been presented in a legible manner. How do we know it matches?

I don't care who owns the boat. It's not being represented honestly.
come on over ill take you for a ride.

[BERTRAM BOY]

come on over ill take you for a ride.


It's a beautiful boat. I don't think anyone is arguing that point. It's just not a Donzi.

[bzsmarina]

i am not trying to say anything other than whats their i am sorry i do not want anyone upset.

[mattyboy]

clearly your records are wrong because the engine # matches the enigine # on the hull sticker c19-23.
oh, and its not my boat.



DUDE

please hull 19 -23 is a benchseat hornet built prior to 1970

dohm 3188 1 rw i/o is the holman moody serial numbers for
a 1970 302 block raw water inboard outboard if you look further on the HM serial tag

it is a 235 hp 4 bbl motor with 9.5 :1 compression

defintely not a 351 motor the serial number for a 351 holman moody would be in the 4000 range and in the 260-290 hp range

few things I would say are true when hull 19-23 rolled out of the factory it was before the 302 was available and Holman Moody was in the marine business

[Donzi_Dude]

DUDE
please hull 19 -23 is a benchseat hornet built prior to 1970
dohm 3188 1 rw i/o is the holman moody serial numbers for
a 1970 302 block raw water inboard outboard if you look further on the HM serial tag



how can you explain the hull ID # and the enigine # being on the same sticker if they cant exist yet they clearly do?

[BUIZILLA]

so we now have a hull sticker from c19-23 and an engine PLATE from a 23 7M.... :popcorn: I knew I should have been a detective... :pimp:

[Donzi_Dude]

I knew I should have been a detective... :pimp:

you either would have been very poor or very bad or both.



:yes:

[BERTRAM BOY]

how can you explain the hull ID # and the enigine # being on the same sticker if they cant exist yet they clearly do?

Total hearsay. A clear picture hasn't been shown of the foil tag.

[bzsmarina]

ill try to get a better one. ill do my best

[Donzi_Dude]

yes very clearly


well maybe its still a wee bit fuzzy.



:shades:

[mrfixxall]

ill try to get a better one. ill do my best


Use the little flower on your camers,thats for hott steeeeemy close ups:)

looks to me the foil sticker was peeled off at one time and stuck back on...

[olredalert]

-----Donzi_Dude,,,Whats your interest in coming on this sight and clearly trying your best to muddy up waters that couldnt be ANY CLEARER??? I, for one, would like to know. So few posts and yet so much knowledge.........Just one of the unwashed that know nothing, Mr. Bill!

[Donzi_Dude]

-----Donzi_Dude,,,Whats your interest in coming on this sight and clearly trying your best to muddy up waters that couldnt be ANY CLEARER??? I, for one, would like to know. So few posts and yet so much knowledge.........Just one of the unwashed that know nothing, Mr. Bill!

im not trying to muddy anything. the facts are being presented as accurately as humanly possible yet a few here including yourself continue to deny the facts that are being presented and continue to muddy the waters.

oh i know what it is now, when the facts dont go your way, yet, you are presented with as much proof as anybody can offer, much more proof that somebody writing something down on a piece of paper and calling it a record. you have the actual physical evidence, when its not going your way its time to try Ad hominem.

actually in this case it seems i may know more than even you as i can accept the facts while you cannot. mighty proud you folks are...

:wink:

oh i have actully been around since 2001 and had posts under another UN that was lost by me and i reregistered. whats the point of dealing with peeps like you when you are shown a basketball and you call it a lemon?

[HOWARD O]

actually in this case it seems i may know more than even you



:popcorn:

[Just Say N20]

I sincerely hope he is able to get the Donzi brochure he referenced that has the Monza on the back.

I supposed almost anything is possible, but consider this.

It seems clear that the engine serial number indicates the engine came from another boat. bzsmarina stated as much in the post saying the 2nd owner changed the engine.

Is it possible that someone obtained one of the Donzi foil tags for the second owner, and he filled it out using the hull number, and replacement engine number, and then stuck it in the boat? This could possibly explain a lot.

[Just Say N20]

Dusty

:lol9:



anything is possible. For the HIN to match a Hornet is weird, hence my inquiry into the actual info on the title..

How about the foil tag, if obtained for the purpose of documenting the boat's current configuration, ALREADY had been partially filled out with the hull number for a hull that was scheduled to be made, or was being made?

I don't know the process of how DONZI filled out the foil tags. Do we (resident data keepers) know if there is such a 2-seat Hornet in existence that matches this hull number?

[BUIZILLA]

what color is the glue on the back of the foil tag?

[HOWARD O]

Isn't this an odd place for the foil tag? Are they not generally located behind the back seat?



http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=48964&d=1249519637

[BUIZILLA]

the glue is a clue... get your head out of the sand..

[Sweet Cheekz]

Mad
Calling Bill Dusty is a real funny way to start the morning
SC

[olredalert]

------Donzi Dud,,,I have been restoring Corvettes for well over 30 years so I am the very first person to say that strange things can and do happen. However, I worked at DONZI in the early 70s and feel that I have at least a bit of knowledge of both DONZI and several other boat builders in the Miami area. I base my knowledge on being at DONZI many many hours and never once seeing a Monza (a very nice boat) on the premises or ever hearing either Roy Farmer, John Chisholm, Tim Chisholm (the GM and owners) or any other employee of DONZI ever bring up the subject of "Monza",,,never, ever!!! Other knowledgeable people have given you evidence that you absolutely choose to ignore. I just dont get it. When you or the owner of this nice boat (I can understand why he is confused) manage to give us any real evidence I will modify my opinion and even apologize if necessary, but Ill bet money that wont happen.,,,,,,, Im not a gambler,,,Mr.Bill

[HOWARD O]

H, they can be mounted in various locations. My X's is by the shifter, the Critters also. My 18 was behind the seat cushions..
Color of the glue is just dumb, you fail comedy club amateur night.. :yes:

Always a learnin'! Thanks MP, didn't know that.

[bzsmarina]

could you please cross this engine # dohm-4170-1-rw. thanks. i am wanting to find out just as much as anyone. if its a fake sticker than it is. like i said i am just posting whats their. please do get upset about this.

[mattyboy]

well that is at least a 351 number what are the last digits or letters of the serial number??? they should appear after the r/w

[bzsmarina]

last are i/o

[HOWARD O]

please do get upset about this.


Okay! :nilly::shocking::bonk::eek::mad::mad::banghead:

How's that? :kingme:

[Rootsy]

Donzi Dude,

As someone with carnal knowledge... Believe every word I say, explicitly, when I tell you MadPoodle, Bertram Boy and Mattyboy speak the exact truth that has a margin of error of 0%. You may take the deciphering of engine and foil tag information, as presented, as gospel.

[Rootsy]

could you please cross this engine # dohm-4170-1-rw. thanks. i am wanting to find out just as much as anyone. if its a fake sticker than it is. like i said i am just posting whats their. please do get upset about this.


That engine number combo doesn't translate. HM didn't use the D0HM prefix for the 290 motor in 1970. All 290's were an E0HM prefix. The 235 motors were the D0HM prefix and the engine number itself would be 3XXX...

[VetteLT193]

Here's the Ad.

Someone out there might confirm, but I did some internet reading and someone said that Aronow designed the 19. That's the only relation out there I could find, and only 1 mention of it so who knows if it is even true.

[mattyboy]

Here's the Ad.
Someone out there might confirm, but I did some internet reading and someone said that Aronow designed the 19. That's the only relation out there I could find, and only 1 mention of it so who knows if it is even true.


in the show on A&E city confidential where they looked at the Aronow murder. they interviewed the owner of monza boats. he stated he did that he did know Don . . that is a far leap of faith to come to a business venture between Donzi and Monza

[chappy]

in the show on A&E city confidential where they looked at the Aronow murder. they interviewed the owner of monza boats. he stated he did that he did know Don . . that is a far leap of faith to come to a business venture between Donzi and Monza

Richie Powers.

I forget the exact words, but he alluded to the notion that many deep vee hulls, including his Monza, can be traced back to Aronow and his companies.

I've got copies of the show if anyone is interested, decent interviews and some cool stories from guys that knew him.

[chappy]

While mining old threads, I found this post from '02.:bonk:

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showpost.php?p=252659&postcount=7

Anyone have Owen's cell #?:lookaroun:

[f_inscreenname]

I cant read it all but I cant believe that this debate is still going on.
The Monza is not a Donzi at all. Period!
Ya they may look similar to the untrained eye but trust me. I have a 19’ Monza sitting 30’ from me now. I have been inside out of this boat for months. There is a 18’ Donzi at the end of the street (100 yards away). Been all over it. They are not the same. It’s like saying a camaro looks like a mustang. They both are sporty but they don’t look at all alike.
At the same time the dead rise is going to be the same. It’s hydrodynamics that worked so they all went with it. As for styling. Lots different there. The sides are higher, the deck is flatter, one piece inner liner, motor venting is integrated into the deck’s mold. They are just not the same. Not saying that someone saw something they liked and didn’t use it. “Borrowing ideas” seemed the norm from everyone on Thunderboat row at the time. It’s always been that way. It like when Hydrox made a cookie that sold good and then came the Oreo. Looks the same but its not.
The last thing I would like to add is this. Not to hurt anyone’s feelings but when they gave credit to Don for “part of the design” it was just a show of respect. Don brought sport boating to the fore front of America and for that he did help with the design. But in all honesty Don didn’t even design boats. He had others do it for him and he picked the right ones that would work. Even the coveted 16 was not Don’s.
After the sale Don and the boys were left with a shop and a lot of trophies and nothing to do. With these guys that didn't last long and they started building again but this time they got a head start. Prior to the sale of Formula they had been working with the idea based on the prototype boat, the "Wyn Mill II" designed by Jim Wynne. Jim won the offshore championship in 1964 and many international records, endurance races and eight world marathon records with the little boat along the way. The design team composed of Don, Dave Stirrat, Jim Wynne and Waltman Walters knew the hull and the strake designs were proven in the Wyn Mill II and with a little tweaking to the design they came up with the Donzi 16. As for where the name comes from there are many versions.
So get over it. You have a Monza and if you are looking down on it because it is a Monza through and through then you are missing something special and don’t deserve it. You need to sell it to some who knows what it is and would never stick a another manufacture’s sticker on it. It’s like when we found an original Nova24 with WellCraft sticker all over it.:mad::mad::mad:
There is only a few of them left and because I like the fact that no one else has the same boat (like I said there is a 18’ Donzi yards away and another 3 on the river I live on) I would take the same equipped Monza over a Donzi straight up any day.:yes:

[gold-n-rod]

We're gonna need a legible pic of the foil tag on the 18 ;) ;) :D

http://nationallampoon.com/files/2009/07/blurry-sobriety-check-point-sign.jpg

[chappy]

I cant read it all but I cant believe that this debate is still going on.
The Monza is not a Donzi at all. Period!
Ya they may look similar to the untrained eye but trust me. I have a 19’ Monza sitting 30’ from me now. I have been inside out of this boat for months. There is a 18’ Donzi at the end of the street (100 yards away). Been all over it. They are not the same. It’s like saying a camaro looks like a mustang. They both are sporty but they don’t look at all alike.
At the same time the dead rise is going to be the same. It’s hydrodynamics that worked so they all went with it. As for styling. Lots different there. The sides are higher, the deck is flatter, one piece inner liner, motor venting is integrated into the deck’s mold. They are just not the same. Not saying that someone saw something they liked and didn’t use it. “Borrowing ideas” seemed the norm from everyone on Thunderboat row at the time. It’s always been that way. It like when Hydrox made a cookie that sold good and then came the Oreo. Looks the same but its not.
The last thing I would like to add is this. Not to hurt anyone’s feelings but when they gave credit to Don for “part of the design” it was just a show of respect. Don brought sport boating to the fore front of America and for that he did help with the design. But in all honesty Don didn’t even design boats. He had others do it for him and he picked the right ones that would work. Even the coveted 16 was not Don’s.
After the sale Don and the boys were left with a shop and a lot of trophies and nothing to do. With these guys that didn't last long and they started building again but this time they got a head start. Prior to the sale of Formula they had been working with the idea based on the prototype boat, the "Wyn Mill II" designed by Jim Wynne. Jim won the offshore championship in 1964 and many international records, endurance races and eight world marathon records with the little boat along the way. The design team composed of Don, Dave Stirrat, Jim Wynne and Waltman Walters knew the hull and the strake designs were proven in the Wyn Mill II and with a little tweaking to the design they came up with the Donzi 16. As for where the name comes from there are many versions.
So get over it. You have a Monza and if you are looking down on it because it is a Monza through and through then you are missing something special and don’t deserve it. You need to sell it to some who knows what it is and would never stick a another manufacture’s sticker on it. It’s like when we found an original Nova24 with WellCraft sticker all over it.:mad::mad::mad:
There is only a few of them left and because I like the fact that no one else has the same boat (like I said there is a 18’ Donzi yards away and another 3 on the river I live on) I would take the same equipped Monza over a Donzi straight up any day.:yes:

Just discussing similar boats from the same time period.

That's all.

[bzsmarina]

could not read # right to much paint. i took pic before i sanded it so you could see better. please cross this #. # is E2HM-4170-1-RW I/O

[Donzi_Dude]

My records indicate that engine # dohm-3188-1-r/w came out of a twin engined 7 meter. This engine wasn't installed in your boat from the factory. Clearly your boat isn't a twin engined 7 meter.

DUDE
please hull 19 -23 is a benchseat hornet built prior to 1970
dohm 3188 1 rw i/o is the holman moody serial numbers for
a 1970 302 block raw water inboard outboard if you look further on the HM serial tag
it is a 235 hp 4 bbl motor with 9.5 :1 compression
defintely not a 351 motor the serial number for a 351 holman moody would be in the 4000 range and in the 260-290 hp range
few things I would say are true when hull 19-23 rolled out of the factory it was before the 302 was available and Holman Moody was in the marine business



there seems to be a mix up, im sorry if it caused anybody to get upset or confused. the tag in the photo is absolutely from a 1970 7 meter with twin 302's.

again sorry!

[bzsmarina]

here are the pic`s of the tag.

[mattyboy]

that's the serial number for a 1972 351 290 hp motor

[bzsmarina]

that's the serial number for a 1972 351 290 hp motor
what did that engine go in.? do you have that info? thanks

[vrod02]

I have all the original lit. Its here. search Monza.I will gladly pass it on since I have sold mine. It looks simular to the 21 but was penned by Kenny elkind, Brownies words.correction Buddy Smith. I would'nt argue with him.:wink:.

[bzsmarina]

just wanted to know if you had the info what boat this engine# went in. thats all.

[f_inscreenname]

what did that engine go in.? do you have that info? thanks

In a ton of stuff I'm sure. Who knows the motor could have came out of a Donzi. The flywheel and bellhousing thats in my Monza now came from a Donzi (and did I pay Donzi prices for it :bonk:). You are talking about a boat that's 40 years old. My Nova has gone from a Chrysler small block to a Chevy Big Block in 8 years. Also H/M tags came on about everything. They didn't build Volvo 270's but there' a H/M tag on mine. It's like Shelby today. Carol signs off on a motor design and the tags start flying.

PS don't the folks around here ruffle your feathers. They mean well.
I will let you in on a secret, I dont know if they like me either.

[HOWARD O]

I will let you in on a secret, I dont know if they like me either.

I LOVE your NOVA!!! :yes: Is that close enough! :kingme:

bzsmarina, I love your Monza too, that is one very cool boat! :yes:
Boats nowadays just don't "do it" for me, they all look the same. But it's obvious, especially from this thread, same held true back then. But still, they were just better looking, more raw "boat", not gimmicky............y'all know what I mean. :boggled:

[VetteLT193]

Pretty generic statement on Ritchies part, regardless of the accuracy. Yes, the Formula 233, the Cig 28 and 36, and I would have to say the Cary (Cig) 32 have been cloned, stretched,widened, and copied so many times it isn't funny, but the Donzi hull has had far less splashes. Monza did splash a couple (18 most noticeable) over the years, but they took no pains to hide it. This one here is a distinctive hull, IMO either a home brewed design, or a clone of something else, and a copy of the GT21 deck with the 'lip" added...

This is absolute 100% speculation.... but..

What if done did some cash contracting work for other boat builders between his companies? so, during the time he sold one company and was figuring the next he could have designed the 19 Monza... which, to me, looks like a GT 21 and an 18 classic got it on and the 19 Monza is the kid.

[f_inscreenname]

PS Where that Donzi logo is on the dash there should be a speedometer. :wink:

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/6486/38373963.jpg

[olredalert]

------Don A didnt own DONZI during the years that we are talking about. The Chisholms did and I can tell you that they never had a moment to spare for any outside brand of boat. The factory on 188th street was always humming with DONZI work. I never saw another brand of boat on the factory property. Not saying that didnt happen but I never saw it...........Bill S

[Donzi_Dude]

olredalert, where you actually around the factory in 1969-1970?

seems to me the boat was either made by Donzi or sold thru them in some manner. that is not to say the boat was ever actually @ the factory.

[BUIZILLA]

seems to me the boat was either made by Donzi or sold thru them in some manner. how do you keep arriving at this conclusion? :nilly:

[f_inscreenname]

how do you keep arriving at this conclusion? :nilly:

What ever he's smoking, I want some. That way I can have a Nova Hovercraft or Chevy van spaceship I always wanted. :pimp:
:kingme:

[bzsmarina]

how do you keep arriving at this conclusion? :nilly:
because there seems to be a peirod from late 1969 to mid 1971 that donzi sold these boats in their catalog. not saying thay were built at donzi. just for some short time thay were sister co`s.

[olredalert]

-----Donzi Dud,,,Yes!!!
-----bzsmarina,,,Please, please, please show us this catalog!!!
-----Just because some dealer somewhere had dealers licenses to sell both new DONZIs and new Monzas does not mean that the parent companys even knew each other existed.
-----Just when I thought a bit of reality was creeping in........Mr.Bill

[bzsmarina]

PS Where that Donzi logo is on the dash there should be a speedometer. :wink:

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/6486/38373963.jpg
my dash is totaly differnt than yours

[f_inscreenname]

I’ve got pictures at home of two other Monzas. They both have different dash boards but I think they both had the same speedometer M/P has now. I know one did.

[mattyboy]

This is absolute 100% speculation.... but..
What if done did some cash contracting work for other boat builders between his companies? so, during the time he sold one company and was figuring the next he could have designed the 19 Monza... which, to me, looks like a GT 21 and an 18 classic got it on and the 19 Monza is the kid.




more speculation probably based more in truth:



so in 1970 when Don is busy racing and concentrating on the 32 cary Cigarette he is freelancing a 19 for donzi while trying to get Cigarette racing team off the ground??? not to mention Donzi at that time had a 19 and a 21 why would they make a 20 footer??? why would they help anyone compete with their lineup???

After Don left Donzi his focus was on the bigger boats the magnums , the Cary, when Don started Cig he had a no comete clause with magnum hence the Cary 32. so his focus was smaller boats( look at the early cigs 19,24,28) the next under 22 foot boat Don had planned was the cig 19 which was started in the fall of 1971. Do you think Don would help with a boat that would compete with his new offerings??


The boat is a Monza in awesome shape and should be valued for what it is I am sure there are not many left in that shape.

My analogy

you put Loni Anderson in a red baywatch swimsuit, it might not be Pam Anderson, but it looks pretty good has classic lines and you wouldn't mind taking her for a ride but you can't brag at the bar that you took Pam Anderson for a ride ;)

[bzsmarina]

just got off the phone with lee holman. he said donzi and monza WERE togher in those years. now i guess lee holman is lieing too. you can call too he is a very nice man to talk to and has a wealth of knolage. also said he can not cross and engine # to any boat. phone #704-583-2888

[bzsmarina]

-----Donzi Dud,,,Yes!!!
-----bzsmarina,,,Please, please, please show us this catalog!!!
-----Just because some dealer somewhere had dealers licenses to sell both new DONZIs and new Monzas does not mean that the parent companys even knew each other existed.
-----Just when I thought a bit of reality was creeping in........Mr.Bill
the catalog will be posted as soon as i get it

[BERTRAM BOY]

just got off the phone with lee holman. he said donzi and monza WERE togher in those years. now i guess lee holman is lieing too. you can call too he is a very nice man to talk to and has a wealth of knolage. also said he can not cross and engine # to any boat. phone #704-583-2888

Lee is right, he probably can't cross reference engine numbers to boats, as soon as the engines left his shop, he would have no idea what boat they went into.

However some of us have made spread sheets and kept detailed records over the years.

[mattyboy]

just got off the phone with lee holman. he said donzi and monza WERE togher in those years. now i guess lee holman is lieing too. you can call too he is a very nice man to talk to and has a wealth of knolage. also said he can not cross and engine # to any boat. phone #704-583-2888


No Lee is not a liar he is probably just mis-remembering after 39 years of who he sold his motors too and what EXACT relation they had with each other and where they were on 188th st


But on the other hand I guess maybe you are calling olred a liar


HE WORKED AT THE FACTOEY DURING THOSE YEARS that your boat was produced


he recalls no sister,mutual,business,dba,co-op or any other kind of business connection between Donzi and Monza

nor has it appeared in any history on this sight or any other site.
we know about the licensed "shepard donzi" that was authorized license agreement for Shepard to build Donzi in Canada. that agreement was short lived only lasted a few years

[f_inscreenname]

I'm done.
I'm also going to slap a Porsche sticker on my conversion van and call it a Porsche boxerbus. Ford and Porsche must have been around each other at some point in the past. Thats all that is needed. :cool:

It dose make me sad that you are trying to cheapen the history of these boats. A knock off is a copy. An original is an original. Monza is original as much as the Donzi 16 is a Donzi or my Nova is a Nova.

[bzsmarina]

i am not calling anyone a liyer. i never said monza came from the donzi factory. i just trying to give the first years monzas the credit thay deserve

[BUIZILLA]

I'm done.
I'm also going to slap a Porsche sticker on my conversion van and call it a Porsche boxerbus. Ford and Porsche must have been around each other at some point in the past. Thats all that is needed. :cool:no no no, it's a VWBoxerBusVanagonMonzi

[olredalert]

------We all know that Lee Holman is not a liar. I never said that and I resent your saying that. I would like to know exactly how you phrased your question to him, though. Was it possibly slanted a bit your way to make the arguement???
------DONZI was a small, basicly custom boat builder, but they were big enough to have some purchasing power with vendors like Holman-Moody. Monza was a much smaller custom boat builder. The answer to what you are saying is that Monza may have piggy-backed an order or two on top of a DONZI order with Holman-Moody as the two companies were physically located fairly close. Shipping probably was easier and cheaper for Monza. Lee might be remembering an event like that, although I dont want to speak for him. Even though I was around I just cant remember who the DONZI purchasing agent got phone calls from back then. As a matter of fact I cant remember the purchasing agents name !!!.........Bill S

------Thanks, Matty!!!
------bzsmarina,,,Where in any of the eleven pages of this drivel have we regulars on this website not given Monza its due. Not ONE person has, even once, said a Monza wasnt a very nice 19 foot performance boat. Were they in DONZI territory??? In my opinion, no, not quite, but they were great boats and I even remember thinking back then that I wouldnt mind owning one. Monza doesnt need your help getting the credit they deserve. Matter of fact Ill bet the other Monza owners probably wish this thread would go away.

[bzsmarina]

also i am sure at this point that even if i do get that catalog that that also will be a forgery too.

[mattyboy]

Bill

that I can see I would imagine alot of that went on since everyone who was anyone was on that st back then I am sure parts motors resin went back and forth like a cup of sugar between neighbors. or that drop bulk shippments went to one place and everyone on the block went to get their shipment



I would take ****inscreen name words he seems to be very in tune with the classic yet non donzi boats of that era like the nova the monza.

it is a very nice unique boat IT IS NOT A DONZI it is a monza, someone tried to make it a donzi

[mattyboy]

i never said monza came from the donzi factory. i just trying to give the first years monzas the credit thay deserve


then put monza stickers on it and be done with it and enjoy the boat :yes:

[bzsmarina]

------We all know that Lee Holman is not a liar. I never said that and I resent your saying that. I would like to know exactly how you phrased your question to him, though. Was it possibly slanted a bit your way to make the arguement???
------DONZI was a small, basicly custom boat builder, but they were big enough to have some purchasing power with vendors like Holman-Moody. Monza was a much smaller custom boat builder. The answer to what you are saying is that Monza may have piggy-backed an order or two on top of a DONZI order with Holman-Moody as the two companies were physically located fairly close. Shipping probably was easier and cheaper for Monza. Even though I was around I just cant remember who the DONZI purchasing agent got phone calls from back then. As a matter of fact I cant remember the purchasing agents name !!!.........Bill S
call him yourself

[f_inscreenname]

then put monza stickers on it and be done with it and enjoy the boat :yes:


It should already have chrome vent covers that say Monza on them. Just take off the Donzi stickers. :yes:

[olredalert]

-----Yah know, bzsmarina, I wouldnt put it past you to make up a forged peice of literature as we have caught you and the Dud in so many miscues in all this. I think the point has been proven more than once. You really should just go get a DONZI as that is what it seems like you really want. I am officially out,,,for good,,,no more for me.........Mr. Bill

[chappy]

i thought it was my boat. but i just put up the pic to find out. it may have had a 302 in it i am not sure on that. the 2 owner of the boat is no longer with us. the drive was stolen and he had worked or changed the engine at that time.

What does this mean again?:kyle:

[bzsmarina]

-----Yah know, bzsmarina, I wouldnt put it past you to make up a forged peice of literature as we have caught you and the Dud in so many miscues in all this. I think the point has been proven more than once. You really should just go get a DONZI as that is what it seems like you really want. I am officially out,,,for good,,,no more for me.........Mr. Bill
whatever. like i said anyone on here is more that welcome to come to my house here on the lake and take a look at the sticker themself. just cause i cant get a good pic. come over and look. i have not done NO NO NO forgery. the first pic for the bell housing plate was a 7 meter donzi that i had bought for parts. that boat had no title. i needed the drive and the shaft housing. so the bell housing had been swaped. i did that and did not know it. as i powder coated the engine thay got swaped some how. i guess even if don rose from the grave and told you it was true you would say it a lie. so i guess i am just a lier. i know alot more pepole than you think. with that said. you or anyone can think what thay want!!!!!!

[bzsmarina]

What does this mean again?:kyle:
it means someone in this therad was saying it was donzi dudes boat. if you read the posts you can see that. but now the thread is all hacked up so i am sure that post is gone too. thats all . the boat is mine and has been sence 1988. like i said I LOVE IT AND WILL NEVER SELL IT I KNOW WHAT IT IS AND WHO BUILT IT. I DO NOT CARE ONE BIT ABOUT THE VALUE AND IT WILL NEVER BE SOLD EVER EVER!!!!!

[f_inscreenname]

I’m just sad that my race boat tread got buried by the same boat I have sitting in my driveway that I apparently know nothing about. :confused:

[bzsmarina]

hull # c1923, title said its a 19 foot donzi with the same hull # on it and engine #, foil sticker has the 4170 # on it also. drive # i do not have at this time, but the drive has been changed. tonights powerball is 4 7 15 22 36 47 69. matty i do still want that prop i hope with all this you still sell it to me!!!! money is money

[bzsmarina]

I’m just sad that my race boat tread got buried by the same boat I have sitting in my driveway that I apparently know nothing about. :confused:
yes you have the same hull mold. and yes monza or donzi broke it off by mid 1971. so yes thay made monza after that were monzas. its the 1969-1971 that donzi and monza were sister co`s. you said your is a 1972. yes thay were still made in a differnt factory. totaly seprate from donzi. thay just marked them togher for a few years. and yes mine is a monza. i do not say its not. i just saying in them years thay were sisterd just like ford and mercury or chevy and buick or pontiac so on so forth. call mr. holman yourself. i spoke with him for over 45 min. very nice man.

[bzsmarina]

So, if it has engine 4170 on it (which is NOT in my records anywhere) can Lee Holman verify who the engine was sold to?
no he can not. he said he could not tell me or anyone what motor went in any boat including donzi

[BUIZILLA]

So, if it has engine 4170 on it (which is NOT in my records anywhere) can Lee Holman verify who the engine was sold to?


no he can not. he said he could not tell me or anyone what motor went in any boat including donzi please READ clearly, he asked who it was SOLD to, not who installed it...

[bzsmarina]

please READ clearly, he asked who it was SOLD to, not who installed it...
sold or installed he could not say either one like i said call him yourself.

[BUIZILLA]

sold or installed he could not say either one like i said call him yourself.then why bother him?? he can't factually add anything to further support or perpetuate your wet dream...

[BERTRAM BOY]

Guys,
I don't doubt that Lee Holman doesn't have that info. There was a fire at Holman-Moody years ago, and I'm guessing a lot of those records were destroyed.

[Rootsy]

On the foil tag. Should be the Donzi HIN (in your case you say C19-23)... The engine S/N installed in the boat (you state E2HM-4170-1-R/W I/O) the HIN is original to AND the Drive S/N also...

Therefore, unless it isn't legible... you should be able to supply us with the drive S/N that should be stamped into that foil tag.

So can you supply that number? How about a legible photo of the tag and all of it's information?

[f_inscreenname]

The first part of this article is interesting.

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/6375/39622691.jpg

[Donzi_Dude]

just got off the phone with lee holman. he said donzi and monza WERE togher in those years. now i guess lee holman is lieing too. you can call too he is a very nice man to talk to and has a wealth of knolage. also said he can not cross and engine # to any boat. phone #704-583-2888



so the internut guru's are wrong, imagine that!

LMAO!


so you where leading him huh?


LMAO!


if thats the case they can blow all your ch!t up with a phone call but i can guarentee that will never happen.

:yes:

its a shame all those posts conveniently got deleted, they would look like bigger fools than they do now.

seems to me you have not tried to make anybody think the boat is anything other than what it is.


anyway you win!


:happy_bi:

[mattyboy]

On the foil tag. Should be the Donzi HIN (in your case you say C19-23)... The engine S/N installed in the boat (you state E2HM-4170-1-R/W I/O) the HIN is original to AND the Drive S/N also...
Therefore, unless it isn't legible... you should be able to supply us with the drive S/N that should be stamped into that foil tag.
So can you supply that number? How about a legible photo of the tag and all of it's information?


the answers to these questions is the Bottom Line

[BERTRAM BOY]

I also know that as far as we know, the tag you guys keep referring to could actually be barrack obama's missing birth certificate, but apparently we wil never know since somehow NO ONE is able to get a clear pic of it..


Now THAT was laugh out loud funny!!!!! :) :) :)

[f_inscreenname]

You all need to back up some, when it comes to Monza's,:nilly:, Vrod is the authority on this by far. He has talked to the builders, knows who drew, designed and built the boats. Hell he probably knows who the guard was at the front gate. He offered you all the articles/info he has on the thing and you guys blew right past him many posts ago in a pissing match.
Who cares where the motor came from. The Mopar 360 in the Monza now came from a 15 passenger Dodge van. The bellhousing came from a Donzi, The 280T trim shield came from ? ? ? ...... (Poodle what the hell did it come from?). The out drive came with the boat. Even the 454 in the Nova came from a field in Pennsylvania. It don’t make it built by John Deere. Anything that bolts to the hull means nothing about the boat. Even the original Nova24 Race boat has “Donzi” stamped on the bottom of the bow cleat.
You all just need to let it go. And think of this, maybe everyone is right. Maybe Donzi sold a couple boats to help a friend stay in business, maybe they piggy backed an order for parts, maybe Donzi had a Monza built for them to check out the competition in many ways (it was done a lot) and you ended up with it. Maybe it was a complete rip off (that was done a lot also). I don’t think they would be saying today that they ripped them off. More like, “they helped with the design”, maybe Don was sitting around a bar with the guys from Monza and came up with the idea, put a fast company together and then sold it to them. And last maybe it was run out the back door of Donzi. Who knows, not many people will and they don’t tell. Trust me. I was given advice a long time ago from a local racer that used to spend time down there (doing what else) racing back then and he said, “anyone that tells you to much wasn’t there” and I took it was for many reasons. :party:

[Donzi_Dude]

Vrod is the authority on this by far. He has talked to the builders, knows who drew, designed and built the boats. you guys blew right past him many posts ago in a pissing match.
i read his post about the monza 19. maybe some of us where caught up in a pissing match but not i. Brownie claims the boat was penned by Buddy Smith, didnt he build a lot of boats for Don?


“anyone that tells you to much wasn’t there” and I took it was for many reasons. :party:



we shall see...

:wink:

[Trueser]

I need another drink after reading thru this one.

Bartender

[mphatc]

Guys,

I have an old Chevy Nova with 351 Ford connected to a powerglide 2 speed tranny and the serial number is from a Ferrari 250 TR . . .

Taking offers . . .


Mario L.

Pass me another round . . . :wink:

[mattyboy]

something about donzi hull 19-23 has bothered me from the start here.
I could not quite figure it out, I said well maybe you are spending to much time on the computer becoming an "internet guru" and you need to go out and get some sun maybe look at a boat and bum a ride or something. So everyonce and a while I disconnect from the continueum transfunctionor and take a ride if I can find my car DUDE ;)

Then Poodle mentioned having a double, I said hell yeah I need one. then Marie yelled at me for putting my beer on the table without a coaster, I exclaimed Pearson !!!

By now your are saying WTF does Pearson have to do with this???

well he did the same thing when I rested my beer on his hornet

YES YOU GUESSED IT

THE ULTIMATE

DONZI HULL 19 23 :yes:

for the record this is what the donzi 19 non fishing hull number 23 looks like

http://www.lgdonziclassic.com/gallery/v/album05/



;) :)

[mattyboy]

sshhhh, we are hunting wabbitts here Matty...


screwey wabbits,


actually I am waiting for the st tropez hull 23 version of all of this

[bzsmarina]

something about donzi hull 19-23 has bothered me from the start here.
I could not quite figure it out, I said well maybe you are spending to much time on the computer becoming an "internet guru" and you need to go out and get some sun maybe look at a boat and bum a ride or something. So everyonce and a while I disconnect from the continueum transfunctionor and take a ride if I can find my car DUDE ;)

Then Poodle mentioned having a double, I said hell yeah I need one. then Marie yelled at me for putting my beer on the table without a coaster, I exclaimed Pearson !!!

By now your are saying WTF does Pearson have to do with this???

well he did the same thing when I rested my beer on his hornet

YES YOU GUESSED IT

THE ULTIMATE

DONZI HULL 19 23 :yes:

for the record this is what the donzi 19 non fishing hull number 23 looks like

http://www.lgdonziclassic.com/gallery/v/album05/



;) :)
so are you saying this is hull c1923?

[Rootsy]

so are you saying this is hull c1923?

Yes... Except there were two 19 23 hull numbers. During the Aronow and Chisholm (Teleflex) ownership eras of Donzi Marine only 2 19 foot hulls were manufactured and marketed by Donzi Marine. The 19 Hornet and the 19 St. Tropez. Both have the same hull but different super structures. The Hornet hull ID nomenclature is 19HXX and the St. Tropez is 19FXX. If you had an original foil tag from the boat you would see the HIN on it in that nomenclature as well as written in felt tip somewhere beneath fiberglass on plywood, such as behind the dash. This isn't always true on early boats (the felt tip) and often times very early boat ID (65, early 66) is known only to God himself.

C was only used in the 18 Corsican hull ID... Such as 18C-XX.

Letters were only used in the HIN (Prior to 1972 USCG Standardization) to denote a different model within a range of models with the same hull length designation. Such as the 18 2+3, X18 and 18 Corsican. Thus 18-XXX, 18x-X, 18C-X. With USCG standardization came a prefix, model, year manufactured and number in series of the year... All permanently molded into the hull of the boat.

As far as anyone is concerned Donzi Marine only ever manufactured and marketed 2 19 foot hulls. The 19 Hornet (both bench seat and 2+3 seating) and the 19 St. Tropez (open cockpit / fish). Officially Donzi, through the era being spoken of, only manufactured and marketed 2 19 foot models. Therefore there would be no other foil tags or anything floating around with a 19 in it. Especially in the format given.

Hence, I once again ask... Will you please provide a CLEAR head on photo of the foil tag you have posted blurry photos of before? That, alone will put this entire thread to rest.

[mike o]

Yes... Except there were two 19 23 hull numbers. During the Aronow and Chisholm (Teleflex) ownership eras of Donzi Marine only 2 19 foot hulls were manufactured and marketed by Donzi Marine. The 19 Hornet and the 19 St. Tropez. Both have the same hull but different super structures. The Hornet hull ID nomenclature is 19HXX and the St. Tropez is 19FXX. If you had an original foil tag from the boat you would see the HIN on it in that nomenclature as well as written in felt tip somewhere beneath fiberglass on plywood, such as behind the dash. This isn't always true on early boats (the felt tip) and often times very early boat ID (65, early 66) is known only to God himself.

C was only used in the 18 Corsican hull ID... Such as 18C-XX.

Letters were only used in the HIN (Prior to 1972 USCG Standardization) to denote a different model within a range of models with the same hull length designation. Such as the 18 2+3, X18 and 18 Corsican. Thus 18-XXX, 18x-X, 18C-X. With USCG standardization came a prefix, model, year manufactured and number in series of the year... All permanently molded into the hull of the boat.

As far as anyone is concerned Donzi Marine only ever manufactured and marketed 2 19 foot hulls. The 19 Hornet (both bench seat and 2+3 seating) and the 19 St. Tropez (open cockpit / fish). Officially Donzi, through the era being spoken of, only manufactured and marketed 2 19 foot models. Therefore there would be no other foil tags or anything floating around with a 19 in it. Especially in the format given.

Hence, I once again ask... Will you please provide a CLEAR head on photo of the foil tag you have posted blurry photos of before? That, alone will put this entire thread to rest.Mr Rootsy, you are a gentleman, nice post.

[bzsmarina]

i tryed last night again. just can get it. like i said anyone is more than welcome to come here and look at it. the drive # on it the last 4 #`s you can not read. hin you can read, and engine# you can read, but still very hard to see. i tryed last night with a flash light but that did not work. only thing i can think of doing is rubbibg something black on it so it goes into the stamped #s to make them more visable. but then again i am doing nothing to alter it. ill just get blamed for forging it. i am waiting talk to the oraganil owner who race it. so i am at a stand still right now untill i get more info. sorry doing the best i can.

[bzsmarina]

did anyone play those powerball #`s??????????????????? lol.... shortie`s is on fire!!!!!!!!!!!

[seano]

here are a pic`s of the hull # plate. notice the donzi marine on it.

I wonder if you remove the panel with the control attached if you would get a better view...looks like only a couple of screws/bolts.

[f_inscreenname]

Sorry and not to be rude at all but again the motor/drive numbers don’t mean jack to me about it’s history. Add in that it’s been raced in the past (funny, mine has the same history) makes it even more likely the motor, drive, everything has been changed at some time over its history. Mine had been changed so many times it had two 3” and two 4” holes cut in the transom for exhaust. The only # that worth its weight in salt is the hull #. Engraved or under glass.

[f_inscreenname]

I wonder if you remove the panel with the control attached if you would get a better view...looks like only a couple of screws/bolts.

Another way is to take a detailed picture far away and then zoom in on it with photo shop or something. You are to close. You can also try using a mirror you just cant use the flash.

[Rootsy]

Sorry and not to be rude at all but again the motor/drive numbers don’t mean jack to me about it’s history. Add in that it’s been raced in the past (funny, mine has the same history) makes it even more likely the motor, drive, everything has been changed at some time over its history. Mine had been changed so many times it had two 3” and two 4” holes cut in the transom for exhaust. The only # that worth its weight in salt is the hull #. Engraved or under glass.

Honestly, I don't care what is IN the boat at this time... Only what is on the foil tag. It could have a leaky 2 cylinder Detroit Diesel in it and a couple of illegals with flippers hanging off the back for all I care. The foil tag correlates to an honest to goodness, fiberglass and balsa Donzi... Which exists, intact or in pieces, somewhere... The tag is original, to the aforementioned boat, altered or unaltered none of us know...

A camera with a MACRO mode is needed in order to focus the lens at such a short focal distance...

[bzsmarina]

i tryed last night again. just can get it. like i said anyone is more than welcome to come here and look at it. the drive # on it the last 4 #`s you can not read. hin you can read, and engine# you can read, but still very hard to see. i tryed last night with a flash light but that did not work. only thing i can think of doing is rubbibg something black on it so it goes into the stamped #s to make them more visable. but then again i am doing nothing to alter it. ill just get blamed for forging it. i am waiting talk to the oraganil owner who race it. so i am at a stand still right now untill i get more info. sorry doing the best i can.
like i said in this post, i CAN NOT READ THE LAST 4 #`S. also i did use macro.. i have not tryed to pull off the shifter yet. i may try that. shorie`s on ffffffire

[bzsmarina]

also the 280t thats on it now i bought form someone on this site around 2002. cant rember his screen name though. some guy in fl the boat he took it off had twins and from what i rember he was putting arny`s on it. and he had 2 donzi`s. the other donzi he restored also i know he took the deck off it.

[bzsmarina]

and the oraginal drive housing did not have a plate on it.. i took pic`s of it but i found it useless to post cause there was no plate on it. now the 280t set up has a plate on it with the #. the old housing dont even have the holes for the pins that hold the plate on it.. if you want ill post those pic`s. but i see no need too

[bzsmarina]

spoke with first owner today. he bought the boat at the n.y.c boat show in 1970. the boat raced 4 times. it raced the point pleasent nj to long island... placed 1st....raced miami to key west.....placed 1st...... raced twice in the tampa bay race...placed 1st both races. also the donzi marine foil sticker has been their from day one...should have race photos and that catalog soon....look for more rock soild proof soon......

[BigGrizzly]

I hate to do this but I was crewing in that race on Needlenose a 28 and I do not remember this boat, let alone it winning.

[chappy]

I hate to do this but I was crewing in that race on Needlenose a 28 and I do not remember this boat, let alone it winning.

That's priceless.:pimp:

Thanks Griz.:thumbsup:

[bzsmarina]

ok so i guess everyone is just lieing to me. lee holman, my dad, the guy who bought the boat and raced it, and the 20 or more pepole i have spoke with over the last week. ya your all right. i do not see the moitvation to lie to me about it but if you say so its true........

[fogducker III]

"If" the boat won four 1st places in four races there MUST be at least one picture of it winning something.......:confused:

[bzsmarina]

the guys name is thomas hayes. maybe i have the year wrong he raced ill call him now to find out.... he is sending me the catalog and the race pictures

[bzsmarina]

just got off the phone with mr hayes, he raced thoes races in 1971-72.. race photos are on their way

[Rootsy]

I am still waiting for that nice legible photo of the foil tag... tap tap tap.... :wink:

[bzsmarina]

I hate to do this but I was crewing in that race on Needlenose a 28 and I do not remember this boat, let alone it winning.
also the boat was yellow. and i am sure it was a differnet class. did not win overall just class...

[bzsmarina]

I am still waiting for that nice legible photo of the foil tag... tap tap tap.... :wink:
also waiting for the clear pic of your foil tag the clearest shot you can get of it is coming to see it.... if i had any reasion to lie about it i would never tell you to come look yourself

[Rootsy]

My rickety old "Mistress" has long shed her foil tag... All I have to ID her is the felt tip writing beneath the glass on the plywood of the back side of the dashboard... 18-105... By mid - latish 66 this was SOP until God knows when... Someone with a post 71 Donzi can tell us if Donzi continued to do the felt tip after mandatory USCG imprinting on the starboard stern of the hull.

See below for proof that mine is an honest to goodness real live Donzi... clear as day...

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/jaroot13/1966_18_Donzi/1966C18105187.jpg

[chappy]

the guys name is thomas hayes. maybe i have the year wrong he raced ill call him now to find out.... he is sending me the catalog and the race pictures

Same Tom Hayes from Beaver Marine up in Winchester?

And you're at Buzzard's Point, right?:kingme:

[bzsmarina]

Same Tom Hayes from Beaver Marine up in Winchester?

And you're at Buzzard's Point, right?:kingme:
no thomas hayes from grand island ny... same place # 13 is.... no i own bz point on smith mountin lake

[BERTRAM BOY]

I found it!!!! the elusive Donzi/Monza foil tag!!!!!!

[bzsmarina]

I found it!!!! the elusive Donzi/Monza foil tag!!!!!!
sweet you found it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:bonk:

[BERTRAM BOY]

It was right next to Obama's birth certificate this whole time!!!!

[BigGrizzly]

I can't believe I stopped what I was doing to see this, Cliff you have too much free time on your hands.

[Rootsy]

I can't believe I stopped what I was doing to see this, Cliff you have too much free time on your hands.

You're retired.... Everyone knows retired people have nothing important going on....

Come on man it is the elusive Donzi Monza.. or is it Monza Donzi...

Cliff, Since you owned the Mistress before me... Can you supply me with the original foil tag? I want to feel "complete"... She feels inadequate when compared to the Monza...

[BERTRAM BOY]

You're retired.... Everyone knows retired people have nothing important going on....
Come on man it is the elusive Donzi Monza.. or is it Monza Donzi...
Cliff, Since you owned the Mistress before me... Can you supply me with the original foil tag? I want to feel "complete"... She feels inadequate when compared to the Monza...

I'll be happy to supply you with the original foil tag....now where did I leave that silver ink?

[bzsmarina]

I can't believe I stopped what I was doing to see this, Cliff you have too much free time on your hands.
big, how much do you charge for your props for the old volvos? i cant believe i spent almost 2 weeks and countless phone calls on this also.... you crewed in 1970 is that the only year you did? all the apba records from the past are gone... i just called them.. i cant believe that the records are gone. thats just unbelieveable....

[BigGrizzly]

Actually, I did the hennesy more then once and the Benny hana once. I lived in Point Pleasant and saw the races from 1965 until the 1970s, when I was pro motorcycle racing. Some how I always found time to go back to point for that week at the kings Grant inn which was the boaters home except for Dick Burteum who would camp out at Dales yacht Basin where I lived. My props are $400 plus shipping. The problem is I am out of 21 pitch and have a palette being made now, who knows when they will be available. Of course the price is depending on the price they sell them to me for and everything is really going up. Roosey I have a ton of stuff to do now that I am retired. I am too buisy to go back to work. I have to check my schedual when they want to have me back as a contractor, what a trip.

[bzsmarina]

Actually, I did the hennesy more then once and the Benny hana once. I lived in Point Pleasant and saw the races from 1965 until the 1970s, when I was pro motorcycle racing. Some how I always found time to go back to point for that week at the kings Grant inn which was the boaters home except for Dick Burteum who would camp out at Dales yacht Basin where I lived. My props are $400 plus shipping. The problem is I am out of 21 pitch and have a palette being made now, who knows when they will be available. Of course the price is depending on the price they sell them to me for and everything is really going up. Roosey I have a ton of stuff to do now that I am retired. I am too buisy to go back to work. I have to check my schedual when they want to have me back as a contractor, what a trip.
thats awesome....glad to hear you seen some of these races... at least you wont lose them like apba has...can you make 26 or 28 pitch cleavers? or 26-28 choppers?

[BigGrizzly]

I don't do old school stuff. I do only purpose built props. the chopper is old and a fragile design and can be beaten by most modern props. I leave the clever to herring and others too much for inventory when one in 100 designs could use one.

[vrod02]

LMAO!:) Thats Don in the capt. seat.

http://webpages.charter.net/vrod02/m%20ad.jpg

[boxy]

LMAO!:) Thats Don in the capt. seat.

http://webpages.charter.net/vrod02/m%20ad.jpg

Either Don, or Roy Orbison.....

[bzsmarina]

naaaaaaaaaa thats don johnson :nilly::bonk::yes::eek:

[vrod02]

Heres my boat. Identical to yours. Conversation "should" be over.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/vrod02/1_0836.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/vrod02/1_0832.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/vrod02/monzarear.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/vrod02/Monza0002.jpg

[Donzi_Dude]

Heres my boat. Identical to yours. Conversation "should" be over.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/vrod02/1_0836.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/vrod02/1_0832.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/vrod02/monzarear.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/vrod02/Monza0002.jpg


if you boat was a 1970 instead of a '72 it would be.

also it not the same boat the specs dont match.


:bonk:

[mattyboy]

if you boat was a 1970 instead of a '72 it would be.
also it not the same boat the specs dont match.
:bonk:



Vrod posted the info he has and thank you for that vrod great info and a great looking boat love the colors

Dude maybe it is time for this donzi monza brochure to make it's appearance you and Brian supposedly have this info but can't produce it

[vrod02]

If I was a Mod here I would show you the door. The old school kids have been more than patient, I read the whole painful thread. Trade it in for cash for clunkers its not a donzi.

[penbroke]

Heres my boat....

At the risk of being off topic, nice rig vrod!!


Frank

[Donzi_Dude]

OK, so tell us, WHICH specs don't match?


the spec on the paper and the specs from BZ's boat.

[mattyboy]

the spec on the paper and the specs from BZ's boat.


we haven't seen the specs on Brian's boat so post them up

[Donzi_Dude]

This thread is real close to going bye bye.. Post some factual info, or kiss it goodbye..



ya make it go bye bye so you cant be proven wrong. you seem real good at sweeping stuff under the carpet.

[bzsmarina]

i did post the facts. i posted the sticker and where its at. i talked to over 20 difrenet pepole off this site who comfirm the fact. but thats not good... i am waiting for the catalog. i just got in touch with the first owner monday.. he is sending them to me with the race photos and photos of the trophys. thats all i can do for now... anyone is welcome to call anyone i spoke with also to comfirm. or come see the foil sticker................. my specks also are the boat is 3500 lbs, my tank is 100 gal, the boat tapes 20 foot 2 inches and 8 foot wide... all that is in this thread.

[bzsmarina]

i also never said it was a donzi its a monza that was sold through donzi thats all......

[vrod02]

At the risk of being off topic, nice rig vrod!!


Frank
Thanks for the compliments!
I sold here to a friend of mine. I'm styling in this old dog now and I absoblutely love it!! Its a 1970 h/m Bertham!!!!!!!!! some dick head put Donzi logo's on it.


http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/vrod02/STB_1252.jpg

[gold-n-rod]

18 pages later and NO ONE can produce the elusive (legible) pic of the "Donzi foil sticker?"

bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[Donzi_Dude]

18 pages later and NO ONE can produce the elusive (legible) pic of the "Donzi foil sticker?"
bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.


if i have to go to BZ's and take the pic myself i will get you it OK?


:cool:

[vrod02]

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/vrod02/smoking-marijuana-1980.jpg

[vrod02]

Your right. did you see my bertham?4 post up? I heard you grew up on one.

[bzsmarina]

i give up..... you want to let this part of history die like apba did with all there old records then fine. i do not have to prove anything you anyone but myself and i did that. so like i said i love the boat, will never sell it, and hold my head very high as i drive it...same as # 13 let it die but when you find out that #13 is in buffalo ny you might think twice.....

[Rootsy]

if i have to go to BZ's and take the pic myself i will get you it OK?
:cool:


Really? That would be so sweet... I mean I've only asked for it for a week or something... Do you know how to use a camera?

BTW, I am still waiting on that drive #... Any legible information from it. First 4 numbers... last 4 numbers.. whatever it takes...

I showed ya mine... now show me yours... :pimp:

[Rootsy]

BTW VRod...

That Monza you let go kicks ass... Your new ride is pretty sweet too ;)

[f_inscreenname]

but delight at antagonizing folks like Vrod and Tommymonza who I am pretty sure have forgotten more than you know.



I feel left out.:shades:
http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/1648/99736146.jpg

[Donzi_Dude]

Really? That would be so sweet... I mean I've only asked for it for a week or something... Do you know how to use a camera?



i dont think BZ is a shutter bug. you may have to wait a week or so before i can get it.


i took the pic in my sig line and a pic of the pic in my avatar so you tell me.


:wink:

[vrod02]

Since this thread has become pretty much worthless. Mark The guy I sold the boat to wants to remove the windshield! Call me if interested.

[Donzi_Dude]

Fact:
"the glue is a clue"
hmm, where have i heard that before? i remember the goofy detective duck posted it. when he was told the glue did not have to be the same, that post and all related where deleted like so many others.

but, i agree the glue is a clue but its pointing to just the opposite thing he was claiming. the glue matches on both of these stickers.


http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=48965&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1249519637


http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=49501&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1250615429




Since this thread has become pretty much worthless.

the only thing that is worthless is the constant bashing of us to TRY and discredit everything we post.
anyway, have fun winning your rigged game and living your fantasy lifes.



:pizza:

[BUIZILLA]

Fact:
"the glue is a clue"
hmm, where have i heard that before? i remember the goofy detective duck posted it. when he was told the glue did not have to be the same, that post and all related where deleted like so many others.

but, i agree the glue is a clue but its pointing to just the opposite thing he was claiming. the glue matches on both of these stickers.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=48965&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1249519637

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=49501&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1250615429

the only thing that is worthless is the constant bashing of us to TRY and discredit everything we post.
anyway, have fun winning your rigged game and living your fantasy lifes.

:pizza: you took the bait, this goofy duck might be smarter than you think...:angel: your such a fool...

how would you know the glue matched?? unless of course you removed the foil (looked at the glue UNDERNEATH) to put it somewhere else...

my bet elsewhere stands, until you produce ANYTHING factual, you are the consumate, and ultimate BS artist, this board has ever seen.. in other words, put up or shut up :lookaroun:

we're waiting... :yes:

4 days and counting.. :kingme:

[Donzi_Dude]

How would he know the glue matches since he only has a picture of one of the deckels??
3.5 days and counting...


i not saying you did edit/delete it nor could i prove it. i dont make claims without proof!


but, somebody hacked this thread up and stuff was edited that a member cant edit and i have proof but that is the least of the problems here.


anywho, all you need to do is compare the glue of both stickers and its easy to see in the pics. im sure none of the outspoken members here will agree.
i attached an image to compare. if you cant see the glue on BZ's sticker i cant help you. it looks like the guy was hung over or had a very long day.




as for setting deadlines it does not help because if i could do anything to make it happen faster i would, for that matter the only thing i can control is taking a legible photo and that may not even be possible but i suspect it is.
again im not looking to fire anybody up or coerce info from those "in the know". i cant see how that would help because what "they know" is not correct unless they do know the Donzi Monza's exist and are just playing games.

i can understand you wanting to see the numbers on the sticker and that is why i offered to help. it dont make much differance to me @ this point and BZ feels the same way. the boat will be documented with HORBA and time will tell what we know to be true.

[BUIZILLA]

I am pretty certain my $$$$ deadline is firm... VERY firm...

if you don't make claims without proof, as you stated, then WTF is it?

you really think HORBA is going to buy your nonsense? or if they even CARE? and if they remotely do, they will instantly become very suspect of inaccurate records.. you can't prove anything here, so why bother with them?

[Donzi_Dude]

if you don't make claims without proof, as you stated, then WTF is it?


it should be very clear @ this point to any reading that no matter what we show you will claim that is false/lies/fake.

just what will you consider proof? one of the great Donzi internet guru's claiming it happened?

like i said the game is rigged.








you really think HORBA is going to buy your nonsense? or if they even CARE? and if they remotely do, they will instantly become very suspect of inaccurate records.. you can't prove anything here, so why bother with them?

LMAO!

[vrod02]

Dude Call me. Barry 314 565 8095 I'll send you everything I have.

[BUIZILLA]

tick.. tick.. tick..

[vrod02]

Its not a hornet!
http://www.nadaguides.com/default.aspx?LI=1-24-38-5692-0-0-0&l=1&w=24&p=38&f=5694&gc=MR&gtc=MR&m=0493&y=1971&ml=D


Heres your boat.
http://www.nadaguides.com/default.aspx?LI=1-24-38-5692-0-0-0&l=1&w=24&p=38&f=5694&gc=mr&gtc=MR&m=1087&y=1971&ml=M

Call me email me I'll send every thread to you.

[f_inscreenname]

Now THIS IS A DONZI.:shades:
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/65/25754218.jpg

There is nothing I do not like about this boat.

[Donzi_Dude]

i ran across this thread. has been stated vrod has some excellent info. thanks for posting these.


http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=57482



take it for whats its worth, the boat seems to have a Donzi setup.

[vrod02]

umm... that has to do with H/M "fitting" not a boat manufactor. Lee said the change took place between 70-71. Your beating a dead horse bro. You are welcome to call me like I previously stated. Only reason I hit this thread in the first place was google!!! I'm not here much so your group conspire thing is out the door.

[BUIZILLA]

hey DD, less than 3 days to go... :popcorn:

[Donzi_Dude]

hey DD, less than 3 days to go... :popcorn:

3 days to go until what?