View Full Version : Running 3-4 footers On Lake Huron........
Carl C
07-29-2009, 12:11 PM
This was one of the smoother spots we found yesterday. The lake was mostly 4 footers. Yeah I am sore today. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hBkc9TaaAo
Just Say N20
07-29-2009, 12:13 PM
That doesn't look like much fun.
The filming, I mean. :angel:
The boat ride looks like a Lot of fun. For a short time. :eek:
Carl C
07-29-2009, 12:17 PM
That was all the camera man could do. We searched for better water but found none. It was definately too rough, mostly out of the fun zone.
BUIZILLA
07-29-2009, 12:33 PM
3-4's is higher than your seated eyesight on the peaks...
I didn't see that.. :lookaroun:
Carl C
07-29-2009, 01:01 PM
3-4's is higher than your seated eyesight on the peaks...
I didn't see that.. :lookaroun:
Well I didn't get the tape measure out but they were pretty damn big. Most of the time I could barely run on plane because the drive kept surfacing. We went off shore about 12 miles and the rollers kept getting bigger to the point it was a little scary so I headed back towards shore running parellel with the waves because there was no way I could have run across them without tearing up the boat. It seemed to get a little better so I decided to run to Tawas Bay and that's where we shot the video but the water just kept getting worse all the way. We tied up at the Tawas Municipal Harbor and walked around town a little before tackling the ride back to Oscoda. There were true 4 footers but not in that video! Might take the boat up again next week and hope for better water.
Ghost
07-29-2009, 01:44 PM
I recall reading somewhere that the eye tends to overestimate the height of "small" waves (say, up to 6 feet maybe?) and underestimate "very large" ones (maybe 15+ ?).
Don't know if it is true and don't know what the size ranges are even if it is, but I recall it being discussed as a known and understood phenomenon.
Curious if others (especially you folks with a lot of big water experience) think or have heard on the subject.
Sweet Cheekz
07-29-2009, 02:29 PM
A 4' wave is enormous from the seat of a 16 and really small from the seat of a 41 Saber Just an fyi
Parnell
HOWARD O
07-29-2009, 02:40 PM
I've been in 4 footers off the coast in my 24' Albemarle and it wasn't so bad. Medium interval swells. But I've also been in in 4 footers on our big river in the same boat where I was getting a little concerned if the boat was going to hold together.
Our river is extremely wide, 5 miles wide at one point. It is also very shallow, maybe an average of 12-15' deep in the channels. This makes for very short interval, steep waves when the wind kicks up. I think for a given size of wave, the body of water makes a huge difference in comfort.
I think wave size is often exaggerated, for if you've been in true 4-5 footers, you'd swear they were much bigger!
blackhawk
07-29-2009, 02:47 PM
Some people measure waves from the waterline(or where it would be) and some measure from crest to trough. The proper way is from crest to trough. So, when the wind kicks up enough to create 2' crests and 2' troughs you are in 4 footers. I'm sure people will want to argue about that.
Carl, you just needed to get on top of those and let it eat! :D
A 4' wave is enormous from the seat of a 16 and really small from the seat of a 41 Saber Just an fyi
Parnell
..... and a Hawaiian 4' wave isn't the same as an Atlantic Coast 4' wave......
4' face, or 4' from peak to trough..... :D
Damn, BH beat me to it ... :D
A 4' Hawaiian wave is an 8' Sebastian wave.
Lenny
07-29-2009, 03:07 PM
..... and a Hawaiian 4' wave isn't the same as an Atlantic Coast 4' wave......
4' face, or 4' from peak to trough..... :D
Damn, BH beat me to it ... :D
A 4' Hawaiian wave is an 8' Sebastian wave.
Damn, Boxy beat me to it. 2's are about 4' from tip to trough, 3's are 6' and 4' are 8'.
I think 3's would be about it for any of our boats, not relating to "swells" here, but actual waves. Swells here on the West side can be 30' (overall) as I have done here in the Juan de Fuca Strait, but when they are 500' + feet apart all you really notice is a disappearing horizon/re-appearing horizon.
But, yes Carl, that looks a bit nasty.
Weren't you able to get on top?
Ghost
07-29-2009, 03:09 PM
..... and a Hawaiian 4' wave isn't the same as an Atlantic Coast 4' wave......
...A 4' Hawaiian wave is an 8' Sebastian wave.
Is a New York wave the finger? ;)
chip w
07-29-2009, 03:13 PM
We were in a Cobia tournament a few years ago out of Pensacola. There were 4' to 6' seas with medium interval swells and a 24' boat. Some of them looked like they were 12' even though we know they were half that at best. When we were in the trough and we definitely couldn't see over the peak. That was in about 225' of water 25 miles off shore. After two days we were a little beat up and pretty light on Cobia or anything else! :frown:
Lenny
07-29-2009, 04:12 PM
WTF were we thinking?? :nilly: :nilly:
You were just having fun and living through it so that you could tell the story at a later date... which you just did.
Bet you're smiling too thinking about it... :yes:
THAT is why...
Carl C
07-29-2009, 04:23 PM
Some people measure waves from the waterline(or where it would be) and some measure from crest to trough. The proper way is from crest to trough. So, when the wind kicks up enough to create 2' crests and 2' troughs you are in 4 footers. I'm sure people will want to argue about that.
Carl, you just needed to get on top of those and let it eat! :D
I was estimating from crest to trough. I tried to run across the top but as soon as I'd get a rythm going along would come a set of true 4+ footers that would send me airborn and the drive would surface. It's hard to throttle back in time everytime the drive leaves the water and i can't afford to trash another drive so soon.
Bamboo Loui
07-29-2009, 04:56 PM
Some people measure waves from the waterline(or where it would be) and some measure from crest to trough. The proper way is from crest to trough. So, when the wind kicks up enough to create 2' crests and 2' troughs you are in 4 footers. I'm sure people will want to argue about that.
Carl, you just needed to get on top of those and let it eat! :D
This is not snowmobiling where riding the tops is fun and necessary.
blackhawk
07-29-2009, 05:29 PM
This is not snowmobiling where riding the tops is fun and necessary.
Necessary, no. Fun, hell yes! :yes:
blackhawk
07-29-2009, 05:33 PM
I was estimating from crest to trough. I tried to run across the top but as soon as I'd get a rythm going along would come a set of true 4+ footers that would send me airborn and the drive would surface. It's hard to throttle back in time everytime the drive leaves the water and i can't afford to trash another drive so soon.
I hear ya about the rhythm! Tough to get on top when there are rogue holes to launch out of!
zelatore
07-29-2009, 06:16 PM
I recall reading somewhere that the eye tends to overestimate the height of "small" waves (say, up to 6 feet maybe?) and underestimate "very large" ones (maybe 15+ ?).
Don't know if it is true and don't know what the size ranges are even if it is, but I recall it being discussed as a known and understood phenomenon.
Curious if others (especially you folks with a lot of big water experience) think or have heard on the subject.
I haven't heard that exactly, but it 100% jives with what I've experienced with people reporting wave heights.
A 4' wave is enormous from the seat of a 16 and really small from the seat of a 41 Saber Just an fyi
Parnell
That's it exactly!
Just Say N20
07-29-2009, 10:00 PM
Is a New York wave the finger? ;)
:lol9:
A most excellent swerve into a funny! :yes:
A2VeeDub
07-30-2009, 10:40 AM
I got stuck crossing the Chesapeake Bay (about 4 miles) Sunday night during a small craft warning (25+ mph wind) in my 18. There were true 3-4 footers. The only way I was able to make it was taking them almost parallel and rolling over them. I debated getting someone to run the trailer to me several times. Luckily the wind was out of the Southwest and I was heading almost due West. Coming across the point I took a 5 footer clear over the bow running at 15mph.
Interesting journey to say the least.
Carl C
07-30-2009, 11:25 AM
I got stuck crossing the Chesapeake Bay (about 4 miles) Sunday night during a small craft warning (25+ mph wind) in my 18. There were true 3-4 footers. The only way I was able to make it was taking them almost parallel and rolling over them. I debated getting someone to run the trailer to me several times. Luckily the wind was out of the Southwest and I was heading almost due West. Coming across the point I took a 5 footer clear over the bow running at 15mph.
Interesting journey to say the least.
We got pretty wet too as you can see by the water on the air deflectors. One bad thing about this part of Lake Huron is that if the wind is howling there is really no place to find flatter water.
As someone who has done plenty of offshore fishing in the north east I can say that those were not even close to a 4' waves.
I have been in 8'+ footers which are not so bad in a 60' hatteras but six footers in the 32' luhrs were not even close to fun and thats during decent weather. Getting stuck in a major storm is a whole diffrent ballgame.
I would say running a 16-22' boat with such a low deck in a 4' wave is a quick way to submerge the nose and have a really bad day. I would say its more likely a true 2' wave but they look like 4' waves to the eye.
blackhawk
07-30-2009, 06:31 PM
Am I the only one that read the post? :bonk: He said that was one of the smoother parts of the day and Lake Huron was mostly 4 footers.
Am I the only one that read the post? :bonk: He said that was one of the smoother parts of the day and Lake Huron was mostly 4 footers.
His title states that he was running 3 to 4 footers which I think would be a bit on the dangerous side with his boat as a true 4' wave could swamp his whole boat. I think the most agree that it was really 2' waves (water line or back of wave to crest)
EDIT: I looked up the wave buoy's for the lake and it was 2' waves
blackboat
07-30-2009, 07:05 PM
Coming back from the boat races in a 10 foot hydro with a 40 merc. a major storm hit with whitecaps breaking into cockpit bailed bailed and bailed some more ended up walking it home and bailed some more but made it unskathed. those 3 foot waves looked like 10 footers to me ,size of waves is relative to boat size!
blackhawk
07-30-2009, 07:34 PM
His title states that he was running 3 to 4 footers which I think would be a bit on the dangerous side with his boat as a true 4' wave could swamp his whole boat. I think the most agree that it was really 2' waves (water line or back of wave to crest)
EDIT: I looked up the wave buoy's for the lake and it was 2' waves
What station did you look at?
The type of waves makes a huge difference. I've run in 3-5' rollers with huge spacing in a 19' boat. You could jump the swell, catch major air, land in the flat and accelerate to the next swell. It was a riot! And I've ran "on top" of some 2-3' whitecap chop with good rhythm. But then again I've had the snot beat out of me in 2' washing machine slop with rouge holes.
I checked a couple diffrent areas on the lake and they all were reading around 2'
North Lake Huron Buoy, Southern Lake Huron Buoy and the Central Lake Huron Buoy. All the historical data shows an average of 2', some just 1.5' and the highest peak is saw was around 2.5' for a brief moment. Central buoy was mostly 1' and spiked at 1.5'
Carl C
07-30-2009, 09:01 PM
vsop, next time I will get the tape measure out. There were waves that were every bit of 4' but not in that video. Anyone who has boated on the Great Lakes knows to take those reports with a grain of salt. Yeah they reported 2 footers on north and central Lake Huron. We went searching for them with not much luck. Those were 2-3 footers in that video, there were true 4 footers further out in the lake. I beat the crap out of my boat, myself and my passengers monday. I kept asking them if they were OK and they were good with it.
vsop, next time I will get the tape measure out. There were waves that were every bit of 4' but not in that video. Anyone who has boated on the Great Lakes knows to take those reports with a grain of salt. Yeah they reported 2 footers on north and central Lake Huron. We went searching for them with not much luck. Those were 2-3 footers in that video, there were true 4 footers further out in the lake. I beat the crap out of my boat, myself and my passengers monday. I kept asking them if they were OK and they were good with it.
You then are much crazier then I.. When I was getting my Degree at RIT I went out plenty of times when it was ruff on Lake Ontario & Erie but in nothing smaller then 27'
I would just be afraid of taking one over the bow at speed in a classic.
WifeHatesMyDonzi
07-31-2009, 05:38 AM
I'm guessing the beating you took on the water monday was easier to stomach than the beating you have received on here. Hell, I've been out numbered in a bar fight and taken less of a beating than you have here. I've never met Carl but I think his point was that it was a rough day on the water monday.
Ed Donnelly
07-31-2009, 06:44 AM
Carl; Next time you go out in the rough, take a video of 2' or whatever
and post that they were 6" and see how many people call you out on underestimating the size....Stay safe.....................Ed
Pismo
07-31-2009, 06:52 AM
Did you ever stuff the bow?
Carl C
07-31-2009, 07:14 AM
Carl; Next time you go out in the rough, take a video of 2' or whatever
and post that they were 6" and see how many people call you out on underestimating the size....Stay safe.....................Ed
Thanks Ed. It's really hard to estimate wave height but I can run true 2 footers all day.
Did you ever stuff the bow?
Not a true stuff but we still got plenty wet. I think the problem was that the wind was out of the south east and we were on the eastern coast where the waves were building. Anyway, enough said, just wish me better luck next time.
A2VeeDub
07-31-2009, 08:21 AM
I'm with you Carl. I can run 2 footers dead on all day. A little bumpy and maybe some prop surfacing but doable. The spray you were getting says there was enough wind for much bigger waves. 4 footers are no good head on in a 16 or 18.
BUIZILLA
07-31-2009, 08:25 AM
4 footers are no good head on in a 16 or 18. I think Lenny and I can dispute that... :)
A2VeeDub
07-31-2009, 08:31 AM
You've got bigger marbles than I.
Lenny
07-31-2009, 09:07 AM
Your exact words were they sucked.. You guys ran them, and ran them well, but they still sucked.. :D :D
....sigh.... again, that was for posperity at a later date :D I knew that it would come in handy one day ;)
It didn't suck, but it was interesting. I am much less afraid to fall into your inland waters (for a brief period) than to spend 2 seconds in this water here. I'll look for 4's in the X this weekend and see if I can't break a motor mount or something ;)
blackhawk
07-31-2009, 09:16 AM
I'm guessing the beating you took on the water monday was easier to stomach than the beating you have received on here. Hell, I've been out numbered in a bar fight and taken less of a beating than you have here. I've never met Carl but I think his point was that it was a rough day on the water monday.
LMAO!!! That is good...and true.
roadtrip se
07-31-2009, 10:16 AM
I've done a bunch of both in big and small boats.
The Great Lakes are by far much harder to run on. The cadence is shorter, the troughs are unpredictable, the rogues are always lurking, the holes are huge, and the water cold. The wave size doesn't really matter, because it changes constantly.
Running a boat like you would normally goes out the window. Quite the challenge.
Want some proof? Go do a search on the Chicago Poker Run on OSO and see how much carnage there is after each run. Ocean runners get their butts kicked just about every year there.
Ghost
07-31-2009, 11:09 AM
...I think his point was that it was a rough day on the water monday.
Ditto that. It sure looked like a bumpy ride in the video.
mattyboy
07-31-2009, 03:27 PM
sorry when there are 4 footers out there I am sitting on the bar stool looking for 12 oz curls and 5 to 5' 5" blondes, redheads,brunettes for a little while til Marie catches up with me
betty had it right
down the martini :spit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XypVcv77WBU
Sweet Cheekz
07-31-2009, 03:56 PM
I once married a 5'5" redhead so I say give me 4 footers anyday :eek:
andyho
07-31-2009, 05:32 PM
I am from sweden and in the Baltic the waves are always very close together which makes it very choopy, in a sail boat no problem but in a Donzi 22c you can barely plane in real 4 ft, gives the options of either slow down or give a lot o gas which drives the boat throught the waves and you don´t broach, most probably you start breaking things, first the passengers then the interior.
We crossed over from Finalnd 2 years ago in 4 to 8 footers in a storm, the boat was a twin engined 36ft lifesaving replica with my wife, she mostly looked like a frozen deer that got caught in the head lights, we could keep a speed of 15 to 25 mph, first the ceiling came apart inside the boat, then search light bulbs broke, radar bearing got stuck and my wife was very soar. Sail boats are more confortable @ sea.
Like i said boats don´t break first-people do.
Haword O comment very good.
ah
LOL, one of my favorrte memories is Monte looking over the side and quietly saying "OH POOP!":eek: :) :)
I told you it was 1-2 out there ....... :D
Barry Eller
07-31-2009, 05:56 PM
You won't believe what my wife thinks 12" inches is:kingme:
You won't believe what my wife thinks 12" inches is:kingme:
The Next Door Neighbor :wink:
Donzi Vol
07-31-2009, 10:27 PM
You won't believe what my wife thinks 12" inches is:kingme:
Hilarious!
Ghost
08-01-2009, 12:53 AM
I once married a 5'5" redhead so I say give me 4 footers anyday :eek:
:rofl:
roadtrip se
08-01-2009, 08:33 AM
I told you it was 1-2 out there ....... :D
Okay, I looked it up. One foot equals about 3.3M.
I would say they were more like 2-3's out there that day. Not bad cruising, if you're in a 35 footer!
Sweet Cheekz
08-01-2009, 09:50 AM
The Next Door Neighbor :wink:
Even more hilarious!
Okay, I looked it up. One foot equals about 3.3M.
I would say they were more like 2-3's out there that day. Not bad cruising, if you're in a 35 footer!
Flip that around :D
Carl C
08-01-2009, 10:01 AM
I love it. Another thread that won't die :). Gonna try for Put-In-Bay again next week. I will report on the conditions ;). One thing I've learned is that the marine vhf weather bands are about 40% reliable! I will not estimate wave heighth again. It will be more like a scale of dead calm to holy $hit!:lookaroun:
roadtrip se
08-01-2009, 05:38 PM
Flip that around :D
You Canadians have just got to be different. I know it's really us, but I'm sticking with what I said.
As for the 2-3's, that was some of the boating I have ever had. It would have killed us in the Classics. Sometimes these things should just stay home.
Barry Eller
08-02-2009, 04:02 PM
As for the 2-3's, that was some of the boating I have ever had. It would have killed us in the Classics. Sometimes these things should just stay home.
I agree. Pensacola Bay and Santa Rosa Sound (intercoastal waterway) get 2-3's and they are so close together that I have to trim the drive out, stick the bow straight up, and plow forward at about 10 mph just to keep from stuffing the bow. I only do that when I'm caught in it coming home. I don't go out in that stuff. Not Fun.
Now the Gulf of Mexico on a nice day, with the wave spacing spread apart, "frequency" I think it is called, 2-3's can be fun!
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