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kraftee
07-13-2009, 05:57 PM
I have been a lurker for quite some time, but figured it was time to tell my boat’s story. I am sales manager for a Florida boatbuilder called Mirage Manufacturing. Mirage is located in Gainesville, Florida and started out in 1971 building racing sailboats from 16’ to 38’ long. Mirage switched to sportfishing boats in the early 80s and we still build a line of diesel-powered sportfish boats from 21’ to 42’. We also began building large, full-displacement, liveaboard-style trawler yachts in 1997 and have launched over 60 of these Great Harbour Trawlers from 37’ to 74’ long. They have been my primary focus. But enough background on the company.

In the mid 80s, a prominent local physician, who had bought several sailboats from us, happened to have access to an older Donzi 18 2+3. He started bugging Ken, the owner of our company, to splash him a brand new 18C. Now, Mirage had never splashed a mold, but since business was pretty awful with the new luxury tax going into effect, and since it was a one-time thing, Ken finally agreed. The new red and white Mirage Ski-Z 18 was built with Volvo 5.7-liter DuoProp power and launched in 1987. The doctor’s first name was Tom and his last name started with a ‘Z’, so the boat was lettered with “TOMZI” on the sides.

Well, the TOMZI was a huge hit at the local lakes and three other local physicians that were friends with Tom decided that they had to have Ski-Zs of their own. After much cajoling and coercing, three more were built – a red and gray one, another red and white one and a yellow and white one. At that point, the molds were sold off and I have no idea where they are now. Mirage has not splashed another boat since.

About six months ago, I heard that one of the Ski-Z 18s was for sale – and it belonged to a surgeon (the original owner) who lived just around the corner from me. I had been looking for a SKi-Z 18 for quite a while to take up to my lake house in western New York State. I think it is pretty cool that we built the boat - even though I'll probably put Donzi stickers on it!

The boat turned out to be Hull #2 – the red and gray one. It had been sitting out of the water for about 5 years as he had sold his lake house, but fortunately, it had never seen salt water and he had had the boat winterized properly before laying it up. Unfortunately, this doctor had “cheaped out” as this was the only one of the four Ski-Zs without DuoProp. Oh well, I paid him some money for it and dragged it home.

It's wasn't in terrible shape (see pics), but I decided to do a complete restoration on it anyway. Since the boat is a clone, I feel no real urge to keep it “original” – besides, the red and gray is UGLY. So, along with its new yellow and white paint scheme, it will have all flush deck hardware and lots of billet stuff. I now have in my shop a stack of new parts for the boat: Momo wheel, Dana controls, Livorsi gauges, Accon deck hardware, Dana underwater lights, PolyPlanar stereo system and hundreds of other parts.

After bringing her into the shop, we spent an hour or so to get the very low-hour 350 started and then towed her to a local lake to see what we had. The boat ran great and seems to handle just fine – even with four large-ish guys aboard. So I took the boat back to the shop and completely disassembled it. That’s when I found the rotten transom. There are perks to working at a boatbuilder. I paid one of our ‘glass guys to stay after and strip out the old transom and put in a new structural foam transom. He also re-gelcoated the entire engine bay and filled all the old holes in the dash and deck so I could mount my new instruments and deck hardware. A couple hundred bucks later, the transom is better than new.

The deck was also looking pretty crappy with lots of print-through and some waves – but fortunately, ITS coring was still sound. So, I paid the guys to fill and sand the deck with long “sweatboards” to get it nice and fair.

The engine had very low hours and was in great shape - it just looked a bit shabby. So I disassembled, painted it and added lots of cool polished aluminum pieces – but pretty much left it stock. I am not really concerned about setting any speed records – low 60s is all I am really hoping for. We’ll see how long that thought lasts the first time some joker in a bass boat beats me to the end of the lake! (Do I hear the whine of a ProCharger maybe next season?)

Anyway, I have also reconditioned and repainted the excellent Volvo SP-A drive and the drivetrain is ready for re-installation in the newly-painted engine bay. I have cut all the holes for the new deck hardware and also cut all the holes for the new instruments, stereo, shift/throttle controls and switch panels. I am jonesing to do the final install on all these cool new goodies and to rewire the boat, but first, we have to finish prepping the chalky old gelcoat for paint. That is where we are as of today. The boat is hanging in one of the sheds here at the boatyard while one of our guys sands on her to get her ready for a coat of DP-40. Next, on Wednesday or Thursday, she goes off to the body shop for her new yellow and white paint scheme. Then our upholstery guy has promised to get the upholstery and carpeting done in record time. I hope to have her reassembled and ready for testing in about three weeks. If anyone is interested, I’ll repost then with more pics!

My big concern right now is the exhaust. The boat was built with through the outdrive exhaust only. I AM going to install through-the-transom exhaust, but, in the interest of being a good neighbor when returning to the dock at 2AM, I planned to install a Quick & Quiet Plus system. Unfortunately, after reading posts on the Donzi Performance forum, it appears that ANY kind of cutout system is illegal in NY State. Bummer. I planned to have my through-transom exhaust muffled to meet the law - I just wanted to be able to be QUIETER if I chose. So, I have a quandary: "Legal" muffled through-transom exhausts only or "illegal" Q&Q+ exhaust. Any suggestions?

f_inscreenname
07-14-2009, 09:14 AM
I would go with the thru hull and no mufflers if it was me. I’m sure the boat can be grandfathered in as old as it is.
Nice project though. I wish I had your resources. I would be rebuilding all kinds of stuff (there is a business there). Having the race boats motor box gel coated for a couple hundred bucks would also be something I could not pass on. Add in having someone else sand the boat is priceless. :wink:

cutwater
07-14-2009, 09:23 AM
Cool project! Good luck. :wink:

zelatore
07-14-2009, 09:40 AM
Very cool. It's always great to know all the history like that. And I have to admit I'm a little jealous of your resources. :wink:

BTW, the Great Harbours are pretty cool as well. Although I have previously admitted to liking Coasters, so my tastes are suspect. :bonk:

kraftee
07-14-2009, 10:05 AM
Don't get me started on the differences between Great Harbours and Florida BAY Coasters! But, just for grins: Although they both have a similar plumb stem, wide-body, "tugboat" look, they are steel (rusty and top heavy), we are all 'glass (2" thick at the bows) with NidaCore above the rub rail for light weight loft. They are truly meant for inland waters while we are designed for coastal crusing with transoceanic capabilities. We're unsinkable - they had one roll over and sink last year in Chesapeake Bay. There are lots of other differences, but keep in mind that there were less than 16 or so FBCs that were built at several different yards and by various builders here and there. ALL Great Harbours were built right here in Gainesville, Florida - and the next boat we start will be Hull #65... Sorry for the diatribe. Even though I realize you are not confused by the two boats, I get that a lot at boat shows! "Isn't this boat steel and built in Guatamala?" AAAAAARGGGH!

Thanks for the nice comments about the project. You're absolutely right - having a boatbuilding plant at one's disposal SURE makes getting these kind of projects done economically and in a reasonable time frame! The sanding is almost complete and we are about to get started with the painting process...

kraftee
07-14-2009, 10:10 AM
By the way, while we're on the subject, you may know that Ruben Trane (Trane Air Conditioning) was the originator of the Florida Bay Coasters. Early on, he was also instrumental in the interior design of our Great Harbours. Well, he bought the very first Mirage Ski-Z 18 (the original "TOMZI") from Dr. Tom about twelve years ago. Don't know if he still has it or not. I'll have to ask him at the next boat show.

86fxst
07-14-2009, 07:24 PM
"I had been looking for a SKi-Z 18 for quite a while to take up to my lake house in western New York State."
On what lake in western NY is your lake house located? Don't mean to be nosey but I float my 18C on Chautauqua!

kraftee
07-14-2009, 07:29 PM
I have a house on Conesus Lake, just south of Rochester. I'm sure you're familiar with it, it's the westermost of the "Little" Finger Lakes. At about 9 miles long and a mile wide it's a bit smaller than Chautauqua. My wife and I love western New York - for about 4 months of the year! The rest of the year I stay in Florida and the Abacos.

zelatore
07-14-2009, 10:05 PM
Don't get me started on the differences between Great Harbours and Florida BAY Coasters! But, just for grins: Although they both have a similar plumb stem, wide-body, "tugboat" look, they are steel (rusty and top heavy), we are all 'glass (2" thick at the bows) with NidaCore above the rub rail for light weight loft. They are truly meant for inland waters while we are designed for coastal crusing with transoceanic capabilities. We're unsinkable - they had one roll over and sink last year in Chesapeake Bay. There are lots of other differences, but keep in mind that there were less than 16 or so FBCs that were built at several different yards and by various builders here and there. ALL Great Harbours were built right here in Gainesville, Florida - and the next boat we start will be Hull #65... Sorry for the diatribe. Even though I realize you are not confused by the two boats, I get that a lot at boat shows! "Isn't this boat steel and built in Guatamala?" AAAAAARGGGH!

Thanks for the nice comments about the project. You're absolutely right - having a boatbuilding plant at one's disposal SURE makes getting these kind of projects done economically and in a reasonable time frame! The sanding is almost complete and we are about to get started with the painting process...

Yeah, but can you carry a Jeep? :wink:

Actually, I've never been aboard a Great Harbour. About all I know of them has come from Passage Maker. If somebody had asked, I would have assumed it was a steel hull. I did know they had the double skeg though, and I think all of them are twins, right?

I recall reading about the Coaster that went down and some of the speculation about what had caused it. I've also read some of the, ahem, stringent arguments from Benford about the stability of the boats.

No appolgy needed for the diatribe. I've been known to bark at people for confusing Marquis and Meridian before. :boat:

kraftee
07-14-2009, 10:17 PM
You're correct, all (but one) of our trawlers have small twin diesels with all the running gear protected by twin skegs. We are also hard-chined so naturally stable. Active fin stabilizers or paravanes have no effect on our stability. So we sit solidly whether at a rolly anchorage or offshore in 6' - 8' seas. Obviously, I have a bit of an axe to grind - but I do about 5,000 nautical miles a year on Great Harbours - mostly offshore - and I can vouch for the stability in all conditions! Good thing this thread is on the "Talk About Other Boats" forum!:yes:

zelatore
07-14-2009, 10:31 PM
You're correct, all (but one) of our trawlers have small twin diesels with all the running gear protected by twin skegs. We are also hard-chined so naturally stable. Active fin stabilizers or paravanes have no effect on our stability. So we sit solidly whether at a rolly anchorage or offshore in 6' - 8' seas. Obviously, I have a bit of an axe to grind - but I do about 5,000 nautical miles a year on Great Harbours - mostly offshore - and I can vouch for the stability in all conditions! Good thing this thread is on the "Talk About Other Boats" forum!:yes:

Good Lord man - 5000 miles a year? No wonder you've got the guys back a the plant working on your boat...you must spend every weekend at sea! (especially at 7 knots!)

So why don't you just point one of those suckers south, make a hard right somewhere around Panama, then another right when you hit the Pacific, and a last right about half-way up California. I'll open up an end-tie here at my marina for you and you can show me the joys of displacement-boating. I figure you'll only burn about $27.95 worth of diesel for the whole trip. Unless you run the gen a lot. Then it might be more like $30:wink:

kraftee
07-14-2009, 10:37 PM
Yeah, 5,000 miles at 8 knots may SEEM like a long way - but I sure don't do much "weekend" cruising. I average one or two trips up and back along the east coast between New England and Florida per year for boat shows and owner deliveries or training - and those are typically non-stop, 8-day trips. Add in the odd 2 or 3 trips around Florida plus three or four bahamas crossings per year (we charter a couple of our boats out of Marsh Harbour in the Abacos) along with some captaining work on those charters - and all of the sudden 5,000 miles isn't very much time aboard!

kraftee
07-14-2009, 10:40 PM
But, one of these days I am going to retire from selling these things and point my own N47 south to do the Caribbean Loop and then jump across the canal and up the coast to do the Sea of Cortez - then on up to Cali and the Pacific Northwest... I have several owners who have done just that.

zelatore
07-14-2009, 11:14 PM
Ah ha....a bit of digging on the Great Harbor website reviels much. Now I understand (although the pic of you clearly isn't onboard a Great Harbor:wink:)

Now if you'd just open a charter operation somewhere just south of the Canadian boarder (you're choice, Washington or Maine) I might just give you a call about my next vacation, although I'm not sure I'm ready to go full-monty with a displacement boat just yet.

kraftee
07-15-2009, 08:15 AM
Hey, come on down to the Abacos - it's WAY better in the Bahamas! Charter our N47 with two other couples and split the cost. I'll give you a deal and I will even throw in my captaining services for free. Keep in mind that for captained charters aboard the N47, we tow a Mirage 21 Classic along as a tender. Makes fishing a diving or snorkeling a breeze...

ERIC

Just Say N20
07-15-2009, 10:21 AM
Great project! And great info about the displacement boats.

While DONZI stickers are probably much easier to get, the TOMZI is a cool story, and a much "rarer" boat. :bonk:

Can you get in trouble for admitting you splashed a hull like that?

Man, could I use your fiberglass and paint wizards right now. It would certainly speed up my project!

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=58186

kraftee
07-17-2009, 10:13 PM
No problem with the boat being splashed over 20 years ago - statute of limitations you know! Besides, the company never marketed the boats in any way. Just built four of 'em for the boss's doctor buddies.

Well, last night we painted the bottom of the hull in the shed where the boat is hanging. I'll let it cure for another day or so, then it goes to the paint shop where we can do the sides, decks and interior and cure the paint in the booth/oven. Used single-stage urethane on the bottom and it came out nice and slick. We'll use two-stage urethane on the sides and decks to give it a shine like glass. I'll post more next week after the paintwork is finished. In the meantime, here are a few pics of the bottom being painted.

zelatore
07-18-2009, 09:59 AM
You know we all hate you for having that sort of play-space, right? :wink:

I don't even think our boy TroubleWaters gets to use factory resources that much.
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=52496

kraftee
07-18-2009, 10:51 AM
Well, hate away. Unfortunately, the only reason we can spend this much time on my personal project is that the boat building business is SO bad that the guys don't have anything else to do. In the past 12 months we have gone from 85 employees down to 5 (plus the guys I bring in on my own dime to work on the Mirage/Donzi.) We are keeping the doors open strictly through repair work and parts business.

Keep in mind that I am the sales manager for the company. That means I work on straight commission. The ONLY income I have this year is from captaining work on our charters and from my copper sculpture (wwwdotEricKraftCopperworksdotcom). At least this project keeps my mind off how much money I am NOT making this year! :bonk:

ERIC

kraftee
07-18-2009, 11:02 AM
Also, since business is so non-existent around here, I had the guys build me an 8' mini three-point hydro from an old mold we have laying around. Anybody got an old Merc Super Hurricane laying around that they want to part with for a reasonable price?

zelatore
07-18-2009, 11:12 AM
Well, hate away. Unfortunately, the only reason we can spend this much time on my personal project is that the boat building business is SO bad that the guys don't have anything else to do. In the past 12 months we have gone from 85 employees down to 5 (plus the guys I bring in on my own dime to work on the Mirage/Donzi.) We are keeping the doors open strictly through repair work and parts business.

Keep in mind that I am the sales manager for the company. That means I work on straight commission. The ONLY income I have this year is from captaining work on our charters and from my copper sculpture (wwwdotEricKraftCopperworksdotcom). At least this project keeps my mind off how much money I am NOT making this year! :bonk:

ERIC


Did I mention I work for a Carver/Marquis dealer? You know....a GENMAR dealer?

I used to work in sales. Made decent money, but it was 100% commission and I worked every weekend 'cause that's just what you do in the boat sales world. Several years ago I took over as manager of our service department mainly because we needed somebody, I have a technical background, and I wanted a steady (if lower) income and a 'normal' schedule.

So yeah, I feel your pain. We aren't exactly selling boats hand over fist out here in SanFran either. :frown:

BTW, I saw the link to your art. You going to knock out a sculpture of the Tomzi? I'm thinking something along the lines of the first pic here might work with your style.
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=48962&highlight=west

mike o
07-18-2009, 09:57 PM
Im a canoe manufacture and even my sales are way down. I do know where's there a super hurricane with the (non bullet) standard lower. Not sure it for sale but i could ask. Whats reasonable? Id like a splash of the hydro:kingme:

kraftee
07-20-2009, 02:30 PM
I dunno, maybe $500 for the Merc? That's assuming decent condition and that it runs good.

As far as a set of pieces for the 8' three-pointer? Let me know if you're serious and I'll get you a price.

ERIC

mike o
07-20-2009, 04:05 PM
I dunno, maybe $500 for the Merc? That's assuming decent condition and that it runs good.

As far as a set of pieces for the 8' three-pointer? Let me know if you're serious and I'll get you a price.

ERIC Hi, well i did see the guy yesterday working on his boat at his dock., so I pulled in. He would consider selling it. Its white and looked pretty nice when I saw it a few yrs ago. I have a white 1961 6 hp merc and a 65 black 9.8 merc myself that are not for sale so I an farmilar with these old merc stuff. The motor ran 2 yrs ago in a tank after a new fuel pump was installed. I can take a pic's of this if ya want. But i think ya might have to dig a little deeper for This motor.... So let me know if you want a pic or 2. I think this 8' hyro is illegal here in NH by the personal water craft laws they passed here. I think it has to be over 12' and carry 2 people with the NH regs. Ill find out for sure. That aside... you sure the 22hp hurricane and the 6 gallon gas can be kinda heavy for an 8' hydro? The dude who hauls my stuff around could deliver either the hydro skin or the 22 S-H. Hes' out of Flordia. Ill take a price on the parts. All I need something thin. I can finish it with my stuff in my shop. I have a friend who makes gas tanks for shelby cobras cars. Be cool to foam in a custom tank up front and run a line to the stearn on that thing. What part of the sunshine state are ya in. Regards, Michael

kraftee
07-20-2009, 06:04 PM
Michael,

Thanks for checking on the Merc for me. If it isn't an inconvenience, shoot me a few pics and let me know how much "deeper" the guy is thinking. The ones I have seen advertised lately have all been in the $400-$700 range in running condition.

I am not sure how New Hampshire gets away with a 12' minimum on boats - what do they do about the 8' and 9' dinghies found on almost EVERY cruising boat? And what about PWCs? Seems kind of arbitrary to me... I'll actually measure the hydro tomorrow - it may be 9' long. I had a mahogany 8-foot three-pointer about a hundred years ago with a 22-horse super hurricane. It went like stink.

We can build you a set of parts for the mini-hydro in white gelcoat for a grand. Let me know if/when you want them.

We are located in Gainesville, a mile or two from one of your "competitors" - Bill Larson's Little River Marine (Heritage rowing skiffs).

ERIC

zelatore
07-20-2009, 07:40 PM
what do they do about the 8' and 9' dinghies found on almost EVERY cruising boat?

Now don't go talking about dinghies.....we've already been down that road last month....:wink:

mike o
07-20-2009, 08:25 PM
One day Mr Miami is going to come this way when I can afford a canoe :) :) I trade ya a canoe for a Alpha SS.:kingme: retro-ed to fit a gen II.... I talked to him (Mr. Miami) last week, He's back in Miami.:kingme: I said i might have to come down and visit if it dosent stop raining and start frig-in warming up around here. He's checking into renting one of those stilts-ville joints for me, so I can get my core body temp up to the summer norm.:yes: Said he might be back up:crossfing:. Said he's washing dishes at Bongos cuban cafe' in Miami and that the (2) owners like him alot:kingme:, just gave him a 50 cent raise.:kingme: Ever been in there?

mike o
07-21-2009, 02:59 PM
I trade ya a canoe for a Alpha SS.:kingme: retro-ed to fit a gen II.... I talked to him (Mr. Miami) last week, He's back in Miami.:kingme: I said i might have to come down and visit if it dosent stop raining and start frig-in warming up around here. He's checking into renting one of those stilts-ville joints for me, so I can get my core body temp up to the summer norm.:yes: Said he might be back up:crossfing:. Said he's washing dishes at Bongos cuban cafe' in Miami and that the (2) owners like him alot:kingme:, just gave him a 50 cent raise.:kingme: Ever been in there?Holding out for more special deliveries, in this deal, are ya...:kingme: There seems to be a plethoa of mark 28's, merc 200's around here. . I found this for you to look at.http://nh.craigslist.org/search/boa?query=super+hurricane&catAbbreviation=boa&minAsk=min&maxAsk=max. I emailed to find out where it is, what part of the lakes region its in for ya kraftee. If its close I can take a look at this one for ya. If it stops raining ill take a pic of the other one I mentioned, Its only 2 miles away. Ya gonna deduct my finders fee off the hydro........ right:kingme:....... up-date at 4:13pm, these 2 motors are the same. He just emailed me. So what now? Interested.

mike o
07-21-2009, 03:55 PM
I assume he still has his two able bodied assistants? They'll fit right in at Stiltseville :D :D

They should have given him more of a raise, but the $$$ they spent buying into Landshark Stadium must have strapped them a bit.. ;) :)Actually there where 3 abled :smileybo:,:yes: . One must have stayed in the car:yes:. I must look it to this miss -hap. I take my specials delivery's very seriously....:kingme:

mike o
07-21-2009, 04:10 PM
Well, my guys claim two. But, they also claim they work a full day, so consider the source ;) :)Well one :smileybo:went in the wrong door. Mystery solved.:kingme:

kraftee
07-22-2009, 08:23 AM
Michael,

So, the way I understand it, the motor for $500 is the same motor that you were telling me about originally, right? It's located right near you? I'd pay $500 for it - especially if there is some way I could work out a deal with you to deliver it to Florida on one of your guy's trips south! Should I go ahead and contact the guy through CraigsList?

Thanks for all your help!

ERIC

mike o
07-22-2009, 09:08 PM
Michael,

So, the way I understand it, the motor for $500 is the same motor that you were telling me about originally, right? It's located right near you? I'd pay $500 for it - especially if there is some way I could work out a deal with you to deliver it to Florida on one of your guy's trips south! Should I go ahead and contact the guy through CraigsList?

Thanks for all your help!

ERICYes it is the same motor. Its all yours if you want it. I have been interested in this motor for awhile. I see this kid all the time yr round. Its a small town, everybody knows everybody:yes:. One my best friends keeps his toon boat on his dock. I asked him about it 3 weeks ago, half interested, and Hes said he sell it, but he didnt know what its worth. I never offered anything for it but he said it should be worth around $700-800. I figured any 20hp engine running is worth $500-600. So i assumed $700-800 sounded ok for a 22 hurricane. Then looking around on the net to see what they are worth, I see another one on craigslist like his... but thats not his garage in the pic, his is a mess:yes:. I dont know y he didnt tell me it was on craigslist since june:bonk: Long story short its the same motor. History. His father owned this engine. He was a wrench at the marina just down the street. Dad past away and colin has the motor now. Thats y i never really persued buying this motor. He must be hurting for $ and i didnt want to own it like that. I got a little girl in 5th grade. I had a hyrdo as a kid and some day Ill find on and put the old 6 or 10 on it I all ready own. the SH way to much for her. But they are kinda illegal with the laws written to get rid of the old stand up jet skis. If you read the law, which i did yesterday. Goes to fast, to short, One seat . Ill get one some day the water po-po are not around all the time.:kingme: Ill call colin and tell him you want it, and I can check it out for you run it. I dont know when you will see this thing. The flordia driver lives on the east coast . And Im not sure when he will be around you or if he will do it . But I thing he will. If your in a hurry. then plan B. If you sell me a hydo....Im gonna make make a mold and build them out of kevlar:kingme::kingme::kingme:, so ya know up front.:kingme: Phone 603-968-7022. The donzi crew at winni. Im going boating.:party::party: Still want it? Ill call colin as soon as I hear from you and tell him its sold:kingme: I know every old merc on this lake and Ive never seen it being run, should be low hr's on it....Regards, Michael

kraftee
07-22-2009, 09:16 PM
Thanks Mike! Yeah, I want it. Let me know where to send a check (or PayPal if he is set up for it). I am in absolutely NO rush for the motor - so whenever is just fine. I really don't care at all if you splash the hydro. Heck, I don't even know where it came from! Ken just NEVER throws anything away. :nilly:

kraftee
07-22-2009, 09:27 PM
Well, today we painted the 18. Came out GREAT. Can't wait to get started with reassembly tomorrow.

mike o
07-22-2009, 09:32 PM
Thanks Mike! Yeah, I want it. Let me know where to send a check (or PayPal if he is set up for it). I am in absolutely NO rush for the motor - so whenever is just fine. I really don't care at all if you splash the hydro. Heck, I don't even know where it came from! Ken just NEVER throws anything away. :nilly:10-4. Alot of folks up here head south to Stiltsville in the fall.:kingme: Ill get it to ya..................... Payment to colin vesey. My addy... ranger canoe 36 river st Ashland NH 03217. Bank ck works, just wait a bit till i talk to colin.

kraftee
07-22-2009, 09:36 PM
Thanks Mike! I'll wait to hear from you.

mike o
07-23-2009, 07:23 AM
Thanks Mike! I'll wait to hear from you. Its all yours. Ill ck the compression next week.

kraftee
07-23-2009, 11:07 AM
I'll put a check in the mail today. When do you want the mini-hydro parts?

mike o
07-28-2009, 08:05 PM
I'll put a check in the mail today. When do you want the mini-hydro parts?Hi, I got your ck today. Ill try to get over there and check this engine out and hear it run. No tank and he's looking for the hose to run it. I cant swing 1k for the hydro right now....... Michael

kraftee
07-30-2009, 05:25 PM
Thanks Mike - let me know what you think when you hear it run. No rush on getting it down here. I may even be able to pick it up later in August as I plan to be in Western NY State for at least the month. In the meantime, I'll talk to the boss and see if I can get him to cut you a break on the price of the hydro parts.

kraftee
07-30-2009, 05:39 PM
Well, as of today, the project boat runs. Unfortunately, the weather turned to crap - so splashing will have to wait for tomorrow. I am only waiting for my rear seat, carpet and Corsa exhaust to complete her. I think she came out pretty good.

harbormaster
07-30-2009, 05:53 PM
Very nice ride. Welcome to the site.

BUIZILLA
07-30-2009, 06:11 PM
you got that painted, striped, wired, assembled, and running... in a week?

wow...

man on a mission.. :yes:

mike o
07-31-2009, 10:54 AM
Thanks Mike - let me know what you think when you hear it run. No rush on getting it down here. I may even be able to pick it up later in August as I plan to be in Western NY State for at least the month. In the meantime, I'll talk to the boss and see if I can get him to cut you a break on the price of the hydro parts. Hey.... I need to talk to you. I have a ride for your motor tommorrow. But you have to drive over to I95 to meet him. The guy a friend and school teacher headed to Ft. L . So Ill have to hear it run tonite. Michael

mike o
07-31-2009, 04:00 PM
Hey.... I need to talk to you. I have a ride for your motor tommorrow. But you have to drive over to I95 to meet him. The guy a friend and school teacher headed to Ft. L . So Ill have to hear it run tonite. Michael......... Sunday am you should have it. However... not by my normal delivery crew this time.:kingme: Sorry.:kingme:

kraftee
07-31-2009, 10:07 PM
Thanks for all the help Mike. So, what's this I hear about your "normal" delivery crew?

Anyway, yeah Buizilla, I have pretty much LIVED in that boat for the last week. I have a deadline. Heading north with the boat on Wednesday!

It was worth the effort.

ERIC

kraftee
08-10-2009, 07:40 AM
Well, the Mirage Ski-Z 18 (Classic?) is finally up at my lake house in Western New York and she is already a hit on the lake. All the hard work ($$$) was well worth it. Took a few pics yesterday between thunderstorms...

ERIC

olredalert
08-10-2009, 08:11 AM
-------I think the fist pump is warranted. Looks great!!!.........Mr.Bill

mike o
08-10-2009, 03:12 PM
Thanks for all the help Mike. So, what's this I hear about your "normal" delivery crew?

Anyway, yeah Buizilla, I have pretty much LIVED in that boat for the last week. I have a deadline. Heading north with the boat on Wednesday!

It was worth the effort.

ERICHi, your boat looks real nice. I Hope your happy with the super hurricane. Hope the hydro gets expedited in the same way as the 18. The NORMAL delivery crew is (3):smileybo: 20 some-things yr old Hotties. A Blondie, brunette, and a redhead , that can apparently be a distraction to employment:yes:, when preforming special delivery's:yes:. Or, possibly pick-up's.... in the case of the hydro someday.:kingme:

kraftee
08-10-2009, 03:22 PM
Hi Mike - the Super Hurricane looks great. Haven't tried to start it yet - probably when I get back to Florida in September. Then I'll get moving on the mini-hydro project this winter - after boat show season and after art show season! But once I get started - it WILL get expedited! Let me know when you're ready for the hydro hull pieces. I'll let the boss know about your "normal" delivery crew. That should bring the price down a bit!

And thanks for the compliment Mr. Bill. Yeah, I am pretty pumped about the boat - as you can tell!

ERIC

Just Say N20
08-10-2009, 03:44 PM
Boat looks fantastic!

And so fast you lost your rear seat upholstery :wink:.

Forgive me if you mentioned which Lake in Western NY. I'm guessing one of the Finger lakes?

Bill

kraftee
08-10-2009, 03:51 PM
Yeah, damn. My upholstery guy got the front buckets done in no time flat - now he's dragging his feet on the back seat :bonk:. Oh well, he promises me by Friday... hopefully he means THIS Friday! Went to dinner at a local lakeside restaurant the other night and the women griped about having to sit on throw cushions. Can you imagine?

The boat is on Conesus Lake. It's the westernmost of the "little" finger lakes, just south of Rochester. 8 miles long and averages about a mile wide. So far, I think it's the only "Donzi" on the lake (yeah, I know - it's a fake Donzi - my wife thinks I should call it a "Fonzi" :rlol:).

kraftee
08-23-2009, 03:21 PM
Well my upholstery guy came through last week as promised and shipped me the back seat. I am pretty thrilled with the result. Yeah, I know - it isn't done as "original" - but then, the boat is a Mirage and not a Donzi. So, the boat is "finished" for the rest of the summer. But, come October, it goes back to Florida for the Q&Q exhaust install, hydraulic steering (the Volvo cable/power steering is just not cutting it) and a host of other improvements. Here are a few photos of the results...

ERIC

kraftee
08-23-2009, 03:25 PM
By the way, I found out what happened to the molds - they were sold to a company in Texas called Emerald...

BUIZILLA
08-23-2009, 03:58 PM
get with Grizz on his Volvo steering... it's the sh1t

kraftee
08-23-2009, 05:50 PM
Thanks - I am DEFINITELY looking for some help and advice on the steering. How do I get Grizz's attention?

Just Say N20
08-24-2009, 08:35 AM
The upholstery looks great!

Find a post by Big Grizz, and click on his name. All the different ways to contact him will show up (pm, email, etc). Pick your method of preference and shoot him a message. I have always found him to be very approachable, very knowledgeable and willing to help.

When people compliment you on your "DONZI" do you simply thank them, or do you feel like you should really give them the history of the boat? You seem like a guy who wouldn't want to mislead anyone, but that could get old; retelling the story every time someone approached you about the boat.

kraftee
08-24-2009, 08:05 PM
Whether to accept the "Donzi" compliments - or to explain that it's a clone? That's a tough question - and it has already become a bit tiresome this summer. You're right, I don't want to mislead someone - and with my luck, someone that REALLY knows Donzis will call me out for being a bit of a fraud! So I started out trying to relate the whole story to anyone who said ANYTHING to me about the boat - but after seeing a lot of glazed expressions, it dawned on me that most people just don't care. They simply appreciate a great-looking classic boat and feel the need to say so.

So, if someone is just walking by and says something about the boat, I say thanks and smile. If they hang around and ask what year it is or whether it's a "Sweet Sixteen" (why does EVERYONE think that all Donzis might be sweet sixteens?) or how long I've had it or something like that, I launch into my explanation. Seems to work out okay and I don't feel like I'm misleading anyone intentionally (well, except for the screaming 5" DONZI decals on my clone boat!)

MOP
08-27-2009, 04:24 PM
Been lurking on this one! Turned out great and the wait for the back seat was well worth it!

Phil

kraftee
11-10-2009, 09:17 PM
FINALLY got the new exhaust installed. I just couldn't get the Corsa Q&Q+ installed last summer in time to tow it to my lake place in New York. There were all kinds of interference problems with the diverter and Y-pipe and the goofy power steering over cable system on the old Volvo Chevy 350 package. So I threw up my hands and spent the summer on the lake with the exhaust making a very quiet exit through the Volvo outdrive only. Well it turns out that one of the stock cast iron manifolds was cracked badly. So, after getting back to Florida, I ordered a set of aluminum GLM Mercruiser-style aluminum manifolds from Jamie at Lakeside (GREAT service, by the way.) Surprise, surprise. Everything bolted up beautifully and now, FINALLY, I have switchable exhaust. Can't wait to get it back to the lake next spring!

ERIC

LKSD
11-11-2009, 10:16 AM
WOw that was a fast install! Looks good & I am glad to see that you are happy with it.. :) Jamie / Lakeside Restorations

.

kraftee
11-11-2009, 10:38 AM
Yeah, it was a pretty quick install. But, then, I have a lot of free time on my hands since my two current careers (yacht salesman and artist) are pretty much on the skids!

Jamie, I do want to thank you for the research you put into my manifolds. The only bump in the road during the install was that my tall, aluminum , center bolt valve covers won't fit with the GLMs. So, stock height valve covers to be installed today.

Anybody want to buy some hardly used Proform center bolt tall aluminum manifolds cheap? (You can see them in one of the earlier motor pics on this thread...)

ERIC

LKSD
11-11-2009, 02:43 PM
No problem & thanks for the biz.. :) Again, Im glad to hear it went smoothly for you.. :) Jamie / Lakeside Restorations

.

kraftee
08-28-2011, 06:55 PM
So. It's been a couple of summers and my Classic 18 Clone - "Uncle Roman" has been a blast on the lake. Now it's time for MORE HORSEPOWER. Mid 50's just ain't fast enough (notwithstanding the 45 mph lake speed limit). So. Decision time. The current power is a mild Volvo/Chevy 5.7 with about 260 horse. I am home in Florida for the winter and I want to pull the motor and replace it with something that will give me mid 60's. I am looking for suggestions. Sell the low-hour 5.7 and build a big-block or a stroked SB? Upgrade the SB to try for 370 hp+? Whaddya think????

Just Say N20
08-29-2011, 08:22 AM
Stroked small block.

Much less weight. Better boat balance. Better fuel economy. Big HP capabilities. Don't really need BB torque in an 18. Much better fit in the engine compartment.

Fixx?

kraftee
08-29-2011, 10:15 AM
Thanks for the response Bill. That was kind of the direction I was planning to head. I had pretty much decided that a big block would be WAY too crowded in that engine compartment! So, the only thing I am trying to decide is which way would be more economical: Buy a 383 crate motor - or tear down my 350 and rebuild it as a stroker?

ERIC

maddad
08-29-2011, 11:40 AM
If you're going to carry around a sbc, why make it less than 400ci ?:confused:

kraftee
12-17-2011, 11:45 AM
Well, I pulled the old 350 out of the boat to start yanking it apart. Ordered a set of aluminum heads, intake and mild cam from Jamie at Lakeside. Unfortunately, after pulling the motor apart, it became apparent that this block has had water in it at some point. Would take a LOT of machine shop work $$$ to get it in shape for a rebuild (see pics.)6925869259

kraftee
12-17-2011, 11:51 AM
On top of that, it's only a two-bolt main block. Soooooo, I decided to buy a ready-to-go 4-bolt, 030-over Summit 383-clearanced block and balanced 383 rotating assembly. Picked them up at the Summit Retail Store in Atlanta this week. BEAUTIFUL stuff (see pics.) Also stopped in to pick up my top end stuff at Lakeside in PA (Thanks Jamie!) The build begins after the Holidays...6926069261

flxwhaler
12-19-2011, 12:28 PM
Eric: You will have to pick me up on your way to the Beachcomber this summer. Should be a fast ride!
-Whaler

kraftee
12-19-2011, 12:42 PM
Hey Mike. Yep, I just want it to go a little faster than your quick little V6 16! You guys at the lake this week? We just got here the other night. Interested in hitting the NSG for dinner or drinks one night this week?

kraftee
01-02-2012, 08:41 PM
Well all the pieces are here. All are either new or cleaned and painted. The 383 project begins in earnest now...69465

Just Say N20
01-03-2012, 09:36 AM
Wow! That picture makes my wallet ache just looking at it.

Or course I am in the midst of doing the same thing (only with a 406 block).

Please keep us posted as you progress through this project.

What is the hp goal of the build?

kraftee
01-03-2012, 10:35 PM
That's a real good question, Bill. I really don't have a "horsepower" goal - it's more of a speed goal! I am looking to get solidly into the 60s... Hopefully it won't be a problem even though this is a relatively mild 383. I'll continue to post pics and progress over the next couple weeks of the build.

ERIC

kraftee
01-04-2012, 06:12 AM
69477

Hmmmmmm....

maddad
01-04-2012, 08:03 AM
Eric, what cam are you putting in your 383?

kraftee
01-04-2012, 08:52 AM
Edelbrock 2102. Like I said, a pretty mild build. I bought the heads, cam and intake from Jamie at Lakeside. He was worried a bit about using any hotter cam with my GLM Mercruiser-style aluminum center riser manifolds and Corsa Q&Q+.ERIC

kraftee
01-07-2012, 10:39 AM
6953169532


Moving right along....

kraftee
01-08-2012, 07:34 PM
The 383 project is winding down to its conclusion. Just a few more things - plus getting a bit of machine work to my flywheel - and it will be time to reinstall and test!

696026960369604

osur866
01-09-2012, 03:25 AM
Project looks good, did you go with hardended pushrods with the Edelbrock heads and guides??

kraftee
01-09-2012, 08:57 AM
Yes, of course - hardened pushrods and roller-tip rockers.

kraftee
01-18-2012, 03:12 PM
697446974569746

Intend to take her out tomorrow on a local lake. Wish me luck...

maddad
01-18-2012, 04:28 PM
That looks like a nice neat install. Have fun tomorrow.

Just Say N20
01-18-2012, 04:40 PM
You don't waste any time, do you?

I will be interested to see how/what performance differences you experience.

scippy
01-18-2012, 06:28 PM
Very enjoyable read.........you move at a very nice pace with great results.
My brother lives aboard his 32' Fales/Willard trawler.....He's 6' 4" and says
"it's comfortable",.........I don't know how he does it!

BUIZILLA
01-18-2012, 07:34 PM
great job, a lot of us can learn from your attention to detail

kraftee
01-19-2012, 04:01 PM
Thanks guys, for all the nice comments. It was a very enjoyable build actually. How could it not be with pretty much all new parts? Anyway, broke her in this morning at 2,500 for 30 minutes on the hose with no problems. Then set the timing and towed her to the lake. Great day on the lake with lots of sun, light winds and 65-degree temps. As expected, the boat is now WAY underpropped. It has a Volvo Ultra 24SS and with the old, weak 350 it would BARELY pull 4,800 at 53mph with this prop. First time I punched the 383, my passengers GRABBED for something to hold onto. It accellerates THAT hard. Wow. And 4,800 comes up QUICK at less than half-throttle.

Now for the bad news. At 4,600 rpm the oil pressure suddenly drops from pegged at 80 to almost zero. Every time. Comes right back as soon as the r's drop below 4,600. AND, in a left hand turn, the pressure doesn't drop until about 4,900. In a right hander, it drops at 4,000. The boat has a new stock-size oil pan with new, pre-welded Milodon hi-volume oil pump for the stock pan. Are we running out of oil? I guess, in retrospect, I should have gone with a bigger pan. I have AT LEAST 2" of clearance all the way around the stock pan.

My thoughts now are to try dumping an additional quart of oil into the motor (I put 5.5 quarts in initially), tee a mechanical gauge into the engine compartment and retest. I will also mount my Volvo Ultra SS26 (which the old motor wouldn't pull to more than 4,000.)

Plan B is to pull the motor again and mount a larger pan ... Any other thoughts?

zelatore
01-19-2012, 05:48 PM
baffled pan?

crank scraper?

oil restrictors?

just throwing ideas out in addition to the bigger pan - that still seems the most logical route.

BUIZILLA
01-19-2012, 07:10 PM
did you check the oil pickup screen clearance against the bottom of the pan?

kraftee
01-19-2012, 08:26 PM
Yeah, Buiz, after your nice comment earlier about my "attention to detail", I am chagrined to admit that I did not check the clearance. Unfortunately, I made the mistake of "assuming" that since the pan is a stock-style pan and the pump is welded for proper clearance with a stock pan, the clearance would be fine. Maybe not...

The pan DOES have a baffle BTW.

BUIZILLA
01-19-2012, 08:53 PM
screen should be no more than 1/4" off the pan bottom, also make sure the cyl head gasket corners aren't restricting the return oil flow from the heads... is the top of the block in the lifter valley solid or vented?

kraftee
01-19-2012, 10:12 PM
Sadly, I have figured out the problem. Did a bit more research on the pan and pump/pickup I bought. I am officially an idiot. 7.75" pan. Pump pickup for 7" pan. Such an elementary mistake that i WOULD have caught if I had checked the clearance... Time to yank it back out this weekend... Damn.

Just Say N20
01-20-2012, 06:13 AM
On the one hand, you must be relieved you figured it out, but at the same time, dang. You have to pull the engine.

So, at the rate you do things, it is probably already done. :yes:

BUIZILLA
01-20-2012, 06:19 AM
before you get real carried away, first take a small piece of modeling clay or play doh and see what you really have for clearance at this point.. if it's just a 1/2" issue you have another problem somewhere else as well, where the oil isn't draining back fast enough... also, if your using a block mounted oil filter base use the AC PF932 (or derivitive, but NO Fram) truck filter,,, the 5.7 big truck oil pan is 7 qts, combined with that long filter above will give you an 8 qt setup, more than enough capacity

kraftee
01-20-2012, 06:31 AM
Thanks Buiz. Yes, you can be SURE there will be a lot of measurements taken BEFORE the engine goes back into the boat this time. Such a rookie error....

Anyway, I am going to also take careful measurements AROUND the pan before I yank the motor (it isn't out YET N2O!) so I can be positive that a 7 qt pan will fit with no problems.

All that being said? The motor will be out of the boat by tomorrow afternoon. Parts by Tuesday. Back in the boat Tuesday night or Wednesday morning. Sea trials Thursday.

BUIZILLA
01-20-2012, 07:43 AM
the truck pan has the same overall depth but the front of the pan is more squared off allowing for more oil capacity

silverghost
01-20-2012, 09:00 AM
I find it very hard to believe that the oil pump pickup being 1/2 " above your engine's oil pan bottom is really causing your loss of oil pressure at high engime RPM.

As Jim mentioned~~~
Is there an oil drain issue in this engine ?
Did you grind out & enlarge the oil drain holes in the cam's lifter valley area.
These drain holes often have lots of casting flash and this closes & severly restricts these main block oil drain holes.
Take your dremel or die grinder tool and grind open these oil drain holes near the cam & lifters.

Also~
Is the draining oil "Ropeing" around the crankshaft & staying suspended there by centrifugal force at high engine speeds ?
I have seen this happen many times.

As already mentioned a very cheap speedshop sheet meal crankshaft oil scraper can go a long way to prevent this oil "Ropeing" around the crankshaft condition.
A crankshaft oil scraper is a very cheap investment.
Most speedshops & Jegs & Summet sell them.

Another thing I would look at is your high volume/pressure oil pump & it's pre-welded pick-up tube assembly.

There might be a slight oil pickup tube to pump housing suction leak here.
Look for poor welds, & slight tube seam cracks & splits.

Also check the oil pump's cover.
Remove the pump's cover assembly and inspect the machined surfaces on the pump housing & cover for flatness.
Put on a new pump cover gasket using a good thin gasket sealer on both gasket sides. Torque the cover bolts.

Also~
Is the oil pump's built-in high pressure relief valve working properly ?
This is a spring loaded steel ball and seat assembly, or a plunger & spring & seat style valve.
Proper spring pressure controls ultimate high oil pressure.
They are very simple relief valves but can fail to seat properly' or the spring can be bad.
They do also hang-up & stick sometimes.


Don't take any chances on low Oil Pressure issues on any engine~~~especially a new one.

Good Luck & let us know what you find !

kraftee
01-20-2012, 01:49 PM
Ghost, thank you for your thoughtful suggestions and insights. One thing though - the pickup isn't a "half-inch" above the pan, it is over an INCH above the bottom of the pan (7" pickup, 7 3/4" pan plus at least 1/4" clearance.) I will let you know what I find when I pull it apart tonite or tomorrow. I really should have known something was goofy when I was pre-oiling the engine. I could get the oil pump to cavitate if I ran my electric drill too fast. Should have stopped and checked the clearance then...

kraftee
01-22-2012, 07:57 AM
Yep, got it apart and the oil pickup is just over an inch from the bottom of the pan. The new 8.25" deep, 7 quart pan (with kickouts) will be here Tuesday. I have a new oil pump with correct 8.25" pickup. I WILL be taking measurements to make sure it is no more than 1/4" above the bottom of the pan. Also bought and am installing a windage tray. Between these two changes, I am confident that I will be able to keep the motor from running out of oil!

kraftee
01-27-2012, 08:48 PM
Well, the 383 is back in the boat and the outdrive is bolted up. We replaced the stock size pan with a 7-qt steel pan with "kickouts" and a new oil pump with appropriate pickup mounted EXACTLY 1/4" off the bottom of the pan. We also added a windage tray mounted to the main bearing studs. So, although I have to take a First Aid/CPR course all day tomorrow to update my 100-ton Master's license, I should be able to test on Sunday or Monday. The three goals are: 1) oil pressure at higher rpms. 2) NO oil leaks. 3) 65 mph. On top of that, it appears that Mirage Ski-Z 18 Hull #4 (mine is Hull #2) has become available for sale - cheap - and it is only a half hour away. So, I'll be going to look at THAT sometime next week.

Geez. Like I need more projects...

kraftee
01-28-2012, 06:46 PM
Started the boat today o the muffs. Ran great - LOTS of oil pressure - even at high revs. Gonna take her to the lake Monday or Tuesday.

69851

kraftee
01-31-2012, 04:15 PM
Launched the boat today to see how things are. Had the Volvo Ultra SS 26 prop on the boat this time (the old motor would NOT pull this prop.) She still comes out of the hole like a rocket and accelerates GREAT. Oil pressure perfect throughout the rev range. Problem is, at about 5,100 rpm, she stops accelerating. That's it, 58mph, like it has a really good rev limiter. I mean, it accelerates HARD through 4,500 right on up to five grand. I am pretty sure it is not the prop - the boat has NO PROBLEM pulling it.

Any thoughts? Timing? It has a GM marine HEI iginition set at the recommended 14 degrees btdc. I have not checked total advance...

How about carburetion? I am running the same 600cfm Edelbrock Performer that I had on the 350. But I have made no changes to it. Jetting maybe? Could it be that this stroker just really needs the 750cfm carb?

Looking for advice. Thanks guys.

On another subject altogether, we went out and purchased another one of the Mirage SKi-Z 18s yesterday. This one has almost NO time on it. It hung in a lake boathouse for 10 years, then was stored in a garage for the rest of its life. The paint is not even worn on the props or drive! It runs fine too. We pulled the drive and are waiting on a drive boot and hoses as the old ones were dry-rotted. They should be here tomorrow (we're still a Volvo OEM.)

It is a yellow and white boat with a Volvo 260hp 350 package and is a 1992 model. The upholstery is even in great shape. My boss, who owns Mirage and built the boats (this one is hull #4 - the very last one - mine is hull #2), is probably going to go ahead and sell it. I will take some pics later and put them up on the For Sale - Other Boats forum. Anybody think they might be interested?

ERIC

LKSD
01-31-2012, 04:26 PM
[ QUOTE=$originalposter]{$pagetext}[/QUOTE]

The boat is looking good. :)

make sure you have your distributor out of the base timing set mode. If you don't the distributors ignition will not advance, Thus no more extra acceleration...

Good luck.. :). J

BUIZILLA
01-31-2012, 04:26 PM
back the timing down to 10* initial, if it goes past 5100 then, it was starting a detonation cycle.. not good

which would mean the carb is too small.. and not enough fuel overall

stay safe and get the 750 Performer, try it again, then if all is well check the TOTAL timing, if you have Vortec or fast burn chamber heads, and 87-89 fuel, keep the total advance to about 30-32* tops..

kraftee
01-31-2012, 04:45 PM
That was quick. Thanks Jamie and Buiz! The plugs are aligned correctly as per the instructions Jamie. The arrow points to the "RUN" side of the other plug. And I am pretty sure I wired it correctly - it seems pretty idiotproof (but I AM a pretty high quality idiot.)

I will recheck initial timing and total timing on the muffs in the driveway tomorrow. I am definitely leaning towards purchasing a Performer 750 - but would hate to spend the four hundred bucks if it does not solve the issue. Yes, I am running on 89 octane fuel.

Thanks again for your thoughts!

joseph m. hahnl
01-31-2012, 05:31 PM
Confusion!!! 26 pitch,5100 rpm, 58mph. seems to me you have the drive tucked in to far. "trim it up".

I always have to ask this when I see a high rpm with no speed.It is a stainless prop ?

olredalert
01-31-2012, 06:32 PM
-----Jim is on the right track. Tyler put Performer 750s on my two 383s. They were built completly for torque and made 460 ft/lbs at 5000rpm and right around 415/420 horsies. Personally, Im not a fan of HEI set-ups in any form. Get something with a chip. Jim might be better able to point you the right direction there......Bill S

Just Say N20
01-31-2012, 07:37 PM
Very interesting about your rpms vs speed. On my 16, I turned an 24 Ultra to 4,750 rpms which was 57.4 GPS mph. 16s are normally slower than 18s with the same power.

I would think 5,000 with a 26 Ultra would be around 61 or so.

This will be interesting to follow.

kraftee
01-31-2012, 07:43 PM
i brought the nose up as high as i dared (used the tabs then brought them up too.) I have a 1.61 Volvo drive on the boat... I have a new trim pump but the drive hates coming back under power - gotta slow way down to bring the drive up.

BUIZILLA
01-31-2012, 07:47 PM
you sure it's not 58 KNOTS ? that would be 66.7 mph....

which makes MUCH more sense

kraftee
01-31-2012, 08:29 PM
I WISH it was 58 KNOTS! Unless the Livorsi GPS speedos have been calibrated in knots - probably not the case!

Just Say N20
01-31-2012, 09:08 PM
My Volvo 290 is 1.61:1 also.

If your numbers are correct, you are over 25% slip, which is a lot, even for an Ultra.69905

http://www.rbbi.com/folders/prop/propcalc.htm

kraftee
01-31-2012, 09:13 PM
Interesting...That DOES seem like excessive slip.

kraftee
01-31-2012, 10:57 PM
Could it really be as simple as not having the drive trimmed out far enough? As I said earlier, the drive does not like to trim out under load. I have to come pretty much all the way out of the throttle to get it to trim up. I THOUGHT I had it trimmed up enough - but maybe not...

BUIZILLA
02-01-2012, 07:35 AM
if you enter 66 mph (58 kts) in the calculator it works out to 15.3766515837104 % slip

my twin prop Yammi is at 11.92453119999999 :cool:

kraftee
02-01-2012, 07:49 PM
Well, here is my plan. As much as I wish that the speedo was reading in knots instead of statute miles per hour - and as much as that would make more sense with the numbers I am seeing - it just isn't the case. This is a Livorsi 80 MPH GPS speedo and I have checked it in the past with a handheld GPS in mph. On top of that, the boat was perfectly stable at full throttle. I am pretty certain that I am gonna have some chine-walk issues if I ever get this thing much over 60mph!

The first thing I have to take care of is the trim problem. I replaced the trim pump a couple years ago due to check ball problems, it would not stay up when on a trailer or while underway. It will stay put now, but it has never been able to overcome the force of the thrust from the boat engine. I almost have to come to a complete stop to get it to trim up. Any Volvo experts here to give me a direction to go with this fix?

Next, I am going to check the initial timing and the total timing to see where we are. Once the timing is set and the trim is fixed I am going to take it back out and see if I can make it go faster. The prop slip figures obviously don't lie. Twenty-five percent seems like an awful lot of slip. So I will keep trimming up (out?) until I get cavitation, then trim back in a bit, pull up the tabs and see what kind of speed/rpm we get then.

I will also take a plug reading while I am out. That should help a bit with my carburetion decision. I mean, I don't mind spending the money for a 750cfm carburetor - if it is truly going to help.

I'll report back to the board once I get a chance to put it in the water again. I really want to thank everyone who weighed in with their thoughts. This board truly is a valuable resource and I am pleased that you guys have been so willing to help me, even though my boat is only a "clone".

Thanks again for all your help! ERIC

zelatore
02-02-2012, 11:20 AM
I can't help you with the volvo trim problem as I've never worked on one, but I have driven a few boats that wouldn't trim up under load. If I trimmed the drive up, it wouldn't plane off so the 'work around' I used was to get up to full speed with the drive down, chop the throttle, and trim up while the boat coasted, then back on the throttle before it fell off plane. You only get a few seconds of trimming, but repeat as needed.

Not a fix, but it might give you something to play with in the mean time.



And if I were a betting man, I'd give better than even odds you'll be shopping for that new carb in the near future.