Noise police and the small block

[The Hedgehog]

The Tn Wildlife guys told the folks at my marina that my X-18 made over 105 decibels when I was putting it on the trailer the other day. That sounds kind of high to me. The guy at the marina did comment that I had it throttled up somewhat. He said he measured it at idle. He had to have been a good 100 feet away when he did it.

This sounds kind of high to me.

[mrfixxall]

The Tn Wildlife guys told the folks at my marina that my X-18 made over 105 decibels when I was putting it on the trailer the other day. That sounds kind of high to me. The guy at the marina did comment that I had it throttled up somewhat. He said he measured it at idle. He had to have been a good 100 feet away when he did it.
This sounds kind of high to me.

check with the department of natural resorces, in my state if your boat is more then 30 yrs old its exempt from the laws:)

About yours is probably is true! mines pretty freakin loud also:)

[Donzi Vol]

Ru Ro! Is there a noise law in all of TN? Of course mine would go well past the 30 year grandfather clause if there is one!

[The Hedgehog]

check with the department of natural resorces, in my state if your boat is more then 30 yrs old its exempt from the laws:)
About yours is probably is true! mines pretty freakin loud also:)

Good point. I have silent choice (about 80% installed) so I can use that if I have to. I will probably finish it this weekend

Actually the Tn wildlife folks are pretty cool on Center Hill. I should be ok as long as I don't piss anyone off for now. I was wondering about the decibel thing since I did not think my 383 was capable of being that loud.

[blackhawk]

The Tn Wildlife guys told the folks at my marina that my X-18 made over 105 decibels when I was putting it on the trailer the other day. That sounds kind of high to me. The guy at the marina did comment that I had it throttled up somewhat. He said he measured it at idle. He had to have been a good 100 feet away when he did it.
This sounds kind of high to me.

No way you were over 105 at idle over 100' away. He's full of chit.

Why was he measuring it?

[BUIZILLA]

105 @ 100 ft??

uh yeah... riiiiigggghhhtttttttt

[The Hedgehog]

No way you were over 105 at idle over 100' away. He's full of chit.
Why was he measuring it?

No joke. I am not buying that either.

[The Hedgehog]

Noise Levels
• Engines of all motorized vessels must have an effective muffling system.
• The noise level of any motorized vessel may not exceed 86 decibels at 50 feet or
more.
• Manufacturers may not sell vessels that do not meet the noise level requirements.
• Exhaust cutouts are illegal.
• It is illegal to alter the muffler system on a boat.
• Boat operators are required to submit to noise level testing if requested by a TWRA
officer.


Hmm. I guess that I can't alter the open exhaust on the X-18.

[blackhawk]

Noise Levels
• Engines of all motorized vessels must have an effective muffling system.
• The noise level of any motorized vessel may not exceed 86 decibels at 50 feet or
more.
• Manufacturers may not sell vessels that do not meet the noise level requirements.
• Exhaust cutouts are illegal.
• It is illegal to alter the muffler system on a boat.
• Boat operators are required to submit to noise level testing if requested by a TWRA
officer.
Hmm. I guess that I can't alter the open exhaust on the X-18.

That actually sounds pretty fair. In Michigan were 90 db at 3 feet.

[The Hedgehog]

That actually sounds pretty fair. In Michigan were 90 db at 3 feet.

Oh I am not complaining. So far they have been pretty dang cool.

[blackhawk]

Oh I am not complaining. So far they have been pretty dang cool.

Oh I know you weren't complaining I was just commenting that your state seems more lenient. Most of us are over the legal limit it's just a matter of how the cops are! LOL

[joseph m. hahnl]

I sacrifice a few horsepowers to appease my neighbors:mad::frown::cool::shades::kingme:

At least I can hear the person next to me:wink:

[Carl C]

That actually sounds pretty fair. In Michigan were 90 db at 3 feet.

Or 70 db measured anywhere from shore.......

[The Hedgehog]

Decibel Level Comparison Chart, Commercial Industrial Residential dB Level
Threshold For Hearing
0
Good Recording Studio
Breathing
10
Rustling Leaves
15
Whisper, Mosquito
20
Library
Living / Dining Room
30
Refrigerator Hum
Kitchen / Bathroom
40
Quiet Office
Power Lawn Mower
Home Office
50
Birds at 10'
55
Conversational Speech
Piano Practice
Electric Shaver
Business Office
Piano Practice
65
Noisy Restaurant
Inplant Office
Street Traffic
70
Chamber Music
Barking Dog
Classroom
Alarm Clock
Television / Dishwasher
75
Airplane at 1 mile
Manual Machines
Vacuum Cleaner
80
Reception / Lobby Area
Handsaw
Garbage Disposal
85
Motor Bus
Telephone Dial Tone
85
Applause in Auditorium
Lawn Mower
85
OSHA Required Hearing Protection in Factory
85
Teleconference Room
Train at 100'
90
Subway
Farm Tractor
Teenage Stereo
90
Sustained Exposure May Cause Hearing Loss
90
Music Practice Room
Electric Drill
Walkman at 5/10
94
French Horn
Average Factory Noise
Blender
100
Orchestra
Diesel Truck
Motorcycle
105
Computer Room
Printing Press
Train
105
Bass Drum
Heavy Truck
Power Saw
110
Dog Kennel
Power Mower
Baby Crying
110
Symphony Orchestra
Punch Press
Squeeky Toy to Ear
110
ain Begins
120
Disco
Sandblasting
Shot Gun
120
Cymbal Crash
Pneumatic Clipper
Air Raid Siren
130
Dragcar Racing
Military Jet
Shotgun
140
Rock Concert
Aircraft Carrier Deck
Jet Takeoff
140
Chest Wall Begins to Vibrate
150
Ear Drum Breaks Instantly
160
Death of Hearing Tissue
180
Loudest Possible Sound
194

Ask Weasel about the baby crying thing. He told me it is around 194!

[The Hedgehog]

I sacrifice a few horsepowers to appease my neighbors:mad::frown::cool::shades::kingme:

At least I can hear the person next to me:wink:

I have no problem with that either. It is the big Donzi that is the problem.

[Carl C]

Decibel Level Comparison Chart, Commercial Industrial Residential dB Level

Threshold For Hearing
0

Dragcar Racing
Military Jet
Shotgun
140

Rock Concert
Aircraft Carrier Deck
Jet Takeoff
140

Chest Wall Begins to Vibrate
150

Ear Drum Breaks Instantly
160

Death of Hearing Tissue
180

Loudest Possible Sound
194

Carl C's unmuffled 525
195

[mattyboy]

Noise Levels
• Engines of all motorized vessels must have an effective muffling system.
• The noise level of any motorized vessel may not exceed 86 decibels at 50 feet or
more.
• Manufacturers may not sell vessels that do not meet the noise level requirements.
• Exhaust cutouts are illegal.
• It is illegal to alter the muffler system on a boat.
• Boat operators are required to submit to noise level testing if requested by a TWRA
officer.
Hmm. I guess that I can't alter the open exhaust on the X-18.


each state has similar regs but each state also has different interpretations

NY has a no bypass of the muffler system they "can " intrepret it has thru hub is "muffler" thru hull is bypass of muffler so there is a gray area also noise regs don't apply to any boat older than 1964 .

best advice know the regs and the loop holes, terms like calibration,certification,testing,and try not to piss in the sand box too often

;)

[boxy]

Carl C's unmuffled 525
195

Last week ...... :D

Ahh sorry Carl, that was offside, I apologize.. :yes::yes:

[LKSD]

Got ya all beat I think..

Kristin can sometimes break 200db when she's pizzed!...:shocking: lol :D

Jamie

.

[Carl C]

Last week ...... :D

Ahh sorry Carl, that was offside, I apologize.. :yes::yes:

Thanks :)

[boxy]

Thanks :)

If I didn't have confidence you'd be up and running soon, I wouldn't have mentioned it. :D
Good luck.

[joseph m. hahnl]

This is the NH law right from their web site:wink:



[/quote]

8. Muffling Devices
To reduce noise, motorboat engines must be equipped with factory-installed
mufflers, exhaust water manifolds or other effective muffling system.
Excessive noise can prevent a vessel operator from hearing signals and
voices.
The noise level of any motorized vessel measured at a distance of 50 feet or more from the vessel must not exceed:

•

86 decibels for engines manufactured prior to January 1, 1978.

•


84 decibels for engines manufactured between January 1, 1978,

and December 31, 1981.
•


82 decibels for engines manufactured after December 31, 1981.

It is illegal to own or operate a vessel that exceeds the decibel limit or a
vessel that is equipped with a device that adjusts the muffling device.
[/quote]


That is why I had to put Dapars on. Even with the slip ons the Minx wouldn't comply to the sound ordinance:frown:.The certificate for the Gibsons was 88Dcb .
So even a 1964 has to be 86Dcb max:wink:

Up hear they have some ludicrous thing were they can confiscate the boat if it doesn't comply while your operating on a NH public water way:confused:

[Carl C]

If I didn't have confidence you'd be up and running soon, I wouldn't have mentioned it. :D
Good luck.

Mufflers are coming too and they will be on when on the local lakes. No one cares on the big lakes. I got boarded by the Coasties last thursday and ended up with another "Thank you for promoting safe boating" certificate but they warned that the type 3 neoprene vests aren't technically legal and that I need to have some Wall-Mart orange type two specials on board bedcause they hold your head above water. I guess it doesn't matter that they won't stay on.

[Carl C]

Joeseph, that's harsh. I guess we are fortunate that it is 90 db in Michigan. I heard a story of someone who failed the test running at idle through the prop in New York.

[boxy]

Joeseph, that's harsh. I guess we are fortunate that it is 90 db in Michigan. I heard a story of someone who failed the test running at idle through the prop in New York.

Carl, that may have something to do with the boat being equipped with a "silent choice" type system. New York State views that as a means to bypass your muffled system, thereby running an illegal system....

[BUIZILLA]

so every new boat equipped with switchable exhaust is illegal before it's sold, much less launched?? :nilly: :bonk:

[boxy]

so every new boat equipped with switchable exhaust is illegal before it's sold, much less launched?? :nilly: :bonk:

If it doesn't pass 88db thru hull it is.

[blackhawk]

so every new boat equipped with switchable exhaust is illegal before it's sold, much less launched?? :nilly: :bonk:

Yes, it can be interpreted that way if the cop or judge is an idiot, which a lot of them are. As mattyboy said they can view the exhaust being diverted from the prop as a "cutout" and therefore illegal.

[blackhawk]

Or 70 db measured anywhere from shore.......

Actually 75db ;)

[joseph m. hahnl]

so every new boat equipped with switchable exhaust is illegal before it's sold, much less launched?? :nilly: :bonk:


No it's legal until it's bought :shocking:

[boxy]

Yes, it can be interpreted that way if the cop or judge is an idiot, which a lot of them are. As mattyboy said they can view the exhaust being diverted from the prop as a "cutout" and therefore illegal.

It has nothing to do with the LEO or the judge being an "idiot". It allows your exhaust system to become non-conforming at the flick of a switch, therefore illegal.

[blackhawk]

It has nothing to do with the LEO or the judge being an "idiot". It allows your exhaust system to become non-conforming at the flick of a switch, therefore illegal.

I should have clarified better. The law states(in Michigan anyway) "cutouts" are illegal regardless if your boat can pass the db test with the thru-hulls. In other words, even if your boat is below the legal limit through the prop AND with your thru-hulls you can still get a ticket for having "cut-outs".

That's an idiot cop!

[BUIZILLA]

I should have clarified better. The law states(in Michigan anyway) "cutouts" are illegal regardless if your boat can pass the db test with the thru-hulls. In other words, even if your boat is below the legal limit through the prop AND with your thru-hulls you can still get a ticket for having "cut-outs".

That's an idiot cop! I don't think the cop wrote the MI legislation...

[blackhawk]

I don't think the cop wrote the MI legislation...

My point was it's the INTERPRETATION of the law. If you're under the legal db limits both ways silent choice isn't a "cut-out" to make your boat louder. It diverts your exhaust through the prop as a courtesy to others. There have been a few cops interpret the law that silent choice as an illegal "cut-out".

[BUIZILLA]

any switchable has DIVERTORS, air or electric, or just open split

I can 100% assure you that YOUR interpretation in court would not stand up

I believe the law reads it can be straight out and muffled within legal limits or under water... you can't have any AT WILL diversionary device

not trying to start an argument, but I think this was covered on OSO awhile back, and every one that thought like you lost out in area's where patrols monitored the limits as written...

[boxy]

It's not open to interpretation.

New York law specifies that no vessel shall exceed a noise level of 90 decibels (dba) when subject to a stationary test or 75 dba when tested while moving. It is illegal to manufacture or sell a boat that does not meet these specifications. The use of cut-outs or the removal or alteration of the boat's muffling system such that it exceeds the noise level/s state above is against the law.

Here is a link to all States guidelines.
http://www.cpperformance.com/TechTips/state_noise_laws.htm

[BUIZILLA]

MI has no switchable law...

[boxy]

That's what it says, so I would think, that unlike NY, as long as it passes either way, you're OK.

[blackhawk]

any switchable has DIVERTORS, air or electric, or just open split

I can 100% assure you that YOUR interpretation in court would not stand up

I believe the law reads it can be straight out and muffled within legal limits or under water... you can't have any AT WILL diversionary device

not trying to start an argument, but I think this was covered on OSO awhile back, and every one that thought like you lost out in area's where patrols monitored the limits as written...

I know a couple years ago "cut-outs" were illegal in Michigan and a few people got tickets for having silent choice even though they were under the legal db limits BOTH WAYS. And the ones that fought it WON. So my interpretation stood up well.

Like I said, if you are legal both ways I don't see silent choice as a "cut-out", I see it as a courtesy. If you are illegal thru-hull then that is a different story.

[BUIZILLA]

so you don't agree that exhaust DIVERTOR and CUTOUT have the same functions?

:rolleyes:

[blackhawk]

This was the MI law.

Mufflers; cut outs.

The exhaust of all internal combustion engines used on any waters of this state
shall be muffled effectively by equipment so constructed and used as to
muffle the noise of the exhaust of the engine in a reasonable manner. The use
of cut outs, bypasses, or similar devices is prohibited, except for vessels
competing in a boat race or regatta sanctioned by the department under
sections 151 and 152 of the act. A modern device, underwater exhaust system
or a system discharging cold water through the exhaust of an inboard engine,
each of which is capable of muffling the noise of the exhaust of the engine in
a reasonable manner, shall be considered as meeting the requirements of this
rule.

[BUIZILLA]

This was the MI law.

Mufflers; cut outs.

The exhaust of all internal combustion engines used on any waters of this state
shall be muffled effectively by equipment so constructed and used as to
muffle the noise of the exhaust of the engine in a reasonable manner. The use
of cut outs, bypasses, or similar devices is prohibited, except for vessels
competing in a boat race or regatta sanctioned by the department under
sections 151 and 152 of the act. A modern device, underwater exhaust system
or a system discharging cold water through the exhaust of an inboard engine,
each of which is capable of muffling the noise of the exhaust of the engine in
a reasonable manner, shall be considered as meeting the requirements of this
rule. I guess the law changed?

[blackhawk]

so you don't agree that exhaust DIVERTOR and CUTOUT have the same functions?

:rolleyes:

Yes they have the same function. But the reasons are very different. Again, my point is silent choice is put in for a courtesy to fellow boaters. To make the boat QUIETER, not louder. If your boat passes both ways you're not bypassing a legal system to an illegal system. Seem like common sense to me.

[blackhawk]

I guess the law changed?

It may have. I sure hope so. Maybe the realized how idiotic a handful of cops were being! The whole thing just irritated me.

Not that it affects me as I have no silent choice and I'm way louder than 90db! LOL

[Carl C]

This was the MI law.
The use
of cut outs, bypasses, or similar devices is prohibited

There's your loop hole. Tell them you don't use it. The cop on Lake Oakland thought my boat was too loud running through the prop! When he arrived at the lake because of a noise complaint we were just idling arround the far end of the lake. I saw them at the boat ramp with my binocs so I just shut down and dropped anchor. He put his little boat in and came over and demanded that I run my boat on plane so he could hear how loud it was. When we started to put on our life vests he said we didn't need them because we weren't going far. I told him we always wear them when running on plane and we put them on. My guest is not a good swimmer. I planed out slowly in through prop mode. He didn't have a decibel meter with him. He was going to write me a ticket for having a lifeline jacket since that's what my passenger was wearing and he just assumed I had no other jackets on board. I explained the benefits of the Lifeline but he was writing the ticket. He never asked to see life jackets! I said "oh, you want to see Coast Guard approved jackets and pulled out another neoprene". That pissed him off and he actually asked for my phone number and said he would call me and have me meet him on the water when he had a db meter! Now is that a screwed up cop story or what?? The guys on Speedwake said I should have tripped the kill switch, told him I was dead in the water and could he please tow me to the dock:biggrin:.

[Ghost]

There's your loop hole. Tell them you don't use it. The cop on Lake Oakland thought my boat was too loud running through the prop! When he arrived at the lake because of a noise complaint we were just idling arround the far end of the lake. I saw them at the boat ramp with my binocs so I just shut down and dropped anchor. He put his little boat in and came over and demanded that I run my boat on plane so he could hear how loud it was. When we started to put on our life vests he said we didn't need them because we weren't going far. I told him we always wear them when running on plane and we put them on. My guest is not a good swimmer. I planed out slowly in through prop mode. He didn't have a decibel meter with him. He was going to write me a ticket for having a lifeline jacket since that's what my passenger was wearing and he just assumed I had no other jackets on board. I explained the benefits of the Lifeline but he was writing the ticket. He never asked to see life jackets! I said "oh, you want to see Coast Guard approved jackets and pulled out another neoprene". That pissed him off and he actually asked for my phone number and said he would call me and have me meet him on the water when he had a db meter! Now is that a screwed up cop story or what?? The guys on Speedwake said I should have tripped the kill switch, told him I was dead in the water and could he please tow me to the dock:biggrin:.

Wait, do I understand correctly that the cop directed you to weigh anchor and drive your boat on plane for a sound test when he had no meter?? Do I have this right?

I haven't kept up with all the detail in this thread, but IF you're legal all the time, I'd file a formal complaint with a letter. I'd write a very calm, very polite, absolutely honest letter describing the circumstances. (The "I'm sorry to bother you with this but if I were managing a staff of police officers, I would absolutely want to be made aware about this sort of event..." sort of thing.)

It strikes me that anyone who disturbs you at anchor and forces you to run your boat, on the grounds of testing your sound levels, when he knowingly has no meter, is more clearly guilty of harassment than almost any case in history. The request for your number to call you when he has a meter on board is an open admission of guilt.

I'd write the letter, put a cc list on the bottom to political officials outside the police department (say, a mayor or town council official) as well as an official from a different government jurisdiction altogether. (If the cop is local, then some state official. If the cop is state, then something else.) Make an appointment to speak with whoever manages the police there, and deliver the letter to him by hand. The day of your appointment, mail it to everyone on the cc list so they all know it went on record in various places. Maybe get a signed, notarized statement from your guest as well.(I wouldn't send it to any newspapers--this would almost certainly piss off the police in charge because of the embarassment. )

This sort of crap needs to be captured on the record. If this guy is this big of an a$$hole, there is almost certainly a pattern of misbehavior that needs to get noticed through a string of complaints. Plus, it sounds like he may be out for you now, and going over his head the right way might have his management telling him to leave you alone. It sounds like he is a liability to his bosses. They probably know this, and it will serve them well in dealing with the problem.

Or, if I have this all wrong (or if you're not legal much of the time, and an easy target for the police), in the words of Emily Litella, "never mind."

Mike

[blackhawk]

Wait, do I understand correctly that the cop directed you to weigh anchor and drive your boat on plane for a sound test when he had no meter?? Do I have this right?

I haven't kept up with all the detail in this thread, but IF you're legal all the time, I'd file a formal complaint with a letter. I'd write a very calm, very polite, absolutely honest letter describing the circumstances. (The "I'm sorry to bother you with this but if I were managing a staff of police officers, I would absolutely want to be made aware about this sort of event..." sort of thing.)

It strikes me that anyone who disturbs you at anchor and forces you to run your boat, on the grounds of testing your sound levels, when he knowingly has no meter, is more clearly guilty of harassment than almost any case in history. The request for your number to call you when he has a meter on board is an open admission of guilt.

I'd write the letter, put a cc list on the bottom to political officials outside both the police department (say, a mayor or town council official) as well as as an official from a different government jurisdiction. (If the cop is local, then some state official. If the cop is state, then something else.) Make an appointment to speak with whoever manages the police there, and deliver the letter to him by hand. The day of your appointment, mail it to everyone on the cc list so they all know it went on record in various places. Maybe get a signed, notarized statement from your guest as well.(I wouldn't send it to any newspapers--this would almost certainly piss off the police in charge because of the embarassment. )

This sort of crap needs to be captured on the record. If this guy is this big of an a$$hole, there is almost certainly a pattern of misbehavior that needs to get noticed through a string of complaints. Plus, it sounds like he may be out for you now, and going over his head the right way might have his management telling him to leave you alone.

Or, if I have this all wrong (or if you're not legal much of the time, and an easy target for the police), in the words of Emily Litella, "never mind."

Mike

Ridiculous isn't it? I have a gun and a badge so you do what I say. Welcome to 2009. :bonk:

[Carl C]

Wait, do I understand correctly that the cop directed you to weigh anchor and drive your boat on plane for a sound test when he had no meter?? Do I have this right?

I haven't kept up with all the detail in this thread, but IF you're legal all the time, I'd file a formal complaint with a letter. I'd write a very calm, very polite, absolutely honest letter describing the circumstances. (The "I'm sorry to bother you with this but if I were managing a staff of police officers, I would absolutely want to be made aware about this sort of event..." sort of thing.)

It strikes me that anyone who disturbs you at anchor and forces you to run your boat, on the grounds of testing your sound levels, when he knowingly has no meter, is more clearly guilty of harassment than almost any case in history. The request for your number to call you when he has a meter on board is an open admission of guilt.

I'd write the letter, put a cc list on the bottom to political officials outside the police department (say, a mayor or town council official) as well as an official from a different government jurisdiction altogether. (If the cop is local, then some state official. If the cop is state, then something else.) Make an appointment to speak with whoever manages the police there, and deliver the letter to him by hand. The day of your appointment, mail it to everyone on the cc list so they all know it went on record in various places. Maybe get a signed, notarized statement from your guest as well.(I wouldn't send it to any newspapers--this would almost certainly piss off the police in charge because of the embarassment. )

This sort of crap needs to be captured on the record. If this guy is this big of an a$$hole, there is almost certainly a pattern of misbehavior that needs to get noticed through a string of complaints. Plus, it sounds like he may be out for you now, and going over his head the right way might have his management telling him to leave you alone. It sounds like he is a liability to his bosses. They probably know this, and it will serve them well in dealing with the problem.

Or, if I have this all wrong (or if you're not legal much of the time, and an easy target for the police), in the words of Emily Litella, "never mind."

Mike

The story is absolutely 100% true! He even instructed us not to put on our life vests. I think someone with a lot of pull has moved onto the lake. Probably a local official or a top cop. Something is going on on Lake Oakland and it's not just me their going after. He was acting on a phoned in complaint and he was being a real d*ck. He had no right to order me to run on plane and he certainly can't phone me and demand that I come to the lake, launch my boat and break the law so that he can write me a ticket. I'll boat on the big lakes as much as possible. The Coasties are much more professional. I won't be run off the lake I've boated on for 25 years though so clamp on mufflers are coming. In fact I hear a Donzi running out there right now.

[joseph m. hahnl]

The story is absolutely 100% true! He even instructed us not to put on our life vests. I think someone with a lot of pull has moved onto the lake. Probably a local official or a top cop. Something is going on on Lake Oakland and it's not just me their going after. He was acting on a phoned in complaint and he was being a real d*ck. He had no right to order me to run on plane and he certainly can't phone me and demand that I come to the lake, launch my boat and break the law so that he can write me a ticket. I'll boat on the big lakes as much as possible. The Coasties are much more professional. I won't be run off the lake I've boated on for 25 years though so clamp on mufflers are coming. In fact I hear a Donzi running out there right now.


That wouldn't happen in NH. If your not moving or violating the law they will not bother you even if there's a complaint.:shades:
I had 11 complaints in one day when I first got the Minx. The complainers kept sicking the marinie weenie after me. But every time he showed up I was anchored.

All the hassle wasn't worth the few horse power, that I lost with the Dapars. So now every body loves my Donzi , instead of cursing it every time I'm out.

[Ghost]

The story is absolutely 100% true! He even instructed us not to put on our life vests. I think someone with a lot of pull has moved onto the lake. Probably a local official or a top cop. Something is going on on Lake Oakland and it's not just me their going after. He was acting on a phoned in complaint and he was being a real d*ck. He had no right to order me to run on plane and he certainly can't phone me and demand that I come to the lake, launch my boat and break the law so that he can write me a ticket. I'll boat on the big lakes as much as possible. The Coasties are much more professional. I won't be run off the lake I've boated on for 25 years though so clamp on mufflers are coming. In fact I hear a Donzi running out there right now.

Sickening. (BTW, not sure if I was clear in what I wrote--just in case, I did not mean to suggest any part of the story was not true. Just that I'd err on the side of caution in how I described events so they see just how credible you really are.) It really pisses me off that anyone on the public payroll, entrusted with tremendous authority, would be so disrepectful of the law. If you do file a complaint, I'll be interested in the sort of response you get. Best of luck, whatever path you take.

Regards,

Mike

[Carl C]

Sickening. (BTW, not sure if I was clear in what I wrote--just in case, I did not mean to suggest any part of the story was not true. Just that I'd err on the side of caution in how I described events so they see just how credible you really are.) It really pisses me off that anyone on the public payroll, entrusted with tremendous authority, would be so disrepectful of the law. If you do file a complaint, I'll be interested in the sort of response you get. Best of luck, whatever path you take.

Regards,

Mike

Just so you have the whole story: This year and last there has been a history of complaints against me and other performance boats on this lake. In the past we were handled with kid gloves as long as we were not driving carelessly. At worse they would try to radar us from the boat ramp. Recently I have had threats left on my windshield and the cops are called everytime I hit the water. I admit my boat is loud but this lake is known locally for Donzis and other high performance boats even though it is small. L. Brooks Patterson lived on this lake for many years and there was no problem (you probably need to be a local to know that he is the Oakland County Executive). Something has changed. I will bring my boat into compliance though. The above story is true and other boaters will tell similar stories. I was not legal so I will not complain unless the harrassment continues after mufflers are on. I don't want to hi-jack this thread, was just telling my story. Does anyone else have a horror story about noise regulation enforcement?

[boxy]

never mind.

[BUIZILLA]

did I miss something??

underwater exhaust and their concerned with noise? how petty is that... have they ever metered an 80's - early 90's 2 stroke 6 cyl. Merc outboard? do they shoot down overhead copter's or airplanes? a loading garbage truck exceeds 100 decibels, do they meter those too.. if it was me, I would ask the Police Capt. to see a report(s) of who keeps calling out the PoPo as it IS public record if the PoPo responds, and an *incident* report is written, and you are entitled to that info BTW.. his asking you to plane off is subjective, unmetered, and not admissable evidence for anything.. I know EXACTLY how I would handle this... :shades:

on the other hand, if it's multiple people calling in, then it stands to reason your blatantly pissing people off for 3 seasons in a row to see what you can get away with... you'll never win that one...

[BigGrizzly]

Now since I have lived on the water my hole life, and have been stopped just to see my engines and have many officers in the family. The whole is attitude with the boater vs the police. Remember SIR goes a Long way. The real fact is that officer was being watched from shore and they had a registered complaint which is a mandatory write up of a report closing whether you get a ticket or not. the fact that you did not get a citation or not doesn't matter. If he went out and waved and said good day there would be another call that he was not doing his job. Now after a couple of complaints by the same people-read caller ID- it becomes a nuisance phone call. Good for you and bad for the caller. As for the lifeline , they can only follow the law and not be decision makers on this subject. In Reality Lifeline could get the vest if they wanted to spend the bucks. $ years ago the neopreme vest were illegal too. The makers decided to make more money and have them approved. This was a tremendous profit for them since they are really cheap to make. The type I II, or III rating. the ones you carry are not good for way off shore or on commercial vessels. Another example is on the 4 of July an officer caught me and Jefe about 5 feet in the air and just asked us to keep it in the water. So there are always circumstances. Maybe the guy before you was an a$$hole. It is really hard to make a brand new day after one of them, trust me I have seen the other side. We have all seen the Holy er than thou a$$ wipe telling the cop how to do his job or threatening them with legal recourse. When things like this happen it is the only them that try to control the water lice.

[joseph m. hahnl]

on the other hand, if it's multiple people calling in, then it stands to reason your blatantly pissing people off for 3 seasons in a row to see what you can get away with... you'll never win that one...



Sorry Carl: but I think that sums it up:wink:

[Carl C]

A lot of folks on this lake enjoy watching the speed boats. No one on shore has ever yelled at me or shook their fist or flipped me off etc. If I lived on this lake I'd also enjoy watching the boats. I will quiet the boat down and limit my speed on this lake and see what happens. I never denied being too loud or going over 55 mph sometimes. Just that it was always pretty much overlooked in the past. I mainly anchor and relax on this lake anyway. The fun is on the big lakes which is the only thing keeping me in Michigan.....really big lakes :).

[mattyboy]

all i can say to everyone is know the regs and the specs for testing in your state or area as some lakes might have more stringent specs than the state they are in

know that the test has very strict requirements not only for the person giving it and the equipment he uses but also to the surrounding environment and the atomospheric conditions

don't piss in the sandbox. If you want to go for a 8am blast on a sunday morning the people in church aren't going to mind the noise but the people sleeping it off at home will. start up and run silent if you got it at the dock or near the shore. I had just thru hulls on mine and in 8 seasons I never had any problems on my lake with noise once the patrol could read my reg numbers I had only one warning for speed. after that is was a wave and a smile every time we past. I am sure that when i went for my early morning rips had I done it closer to shore or earlier than 9am I would have had some complaints

Know the sandbox you are playing in: my lake has no testing for noise but they hound everyone for BUI and speed 45 mph. I think all patrols are looking for BUI . Lk George noise is more enforced than speed.

Carl
don't you have enough horror stories of your own on that lake of yours???

[blackhawk]

Carl it sounds like this new cop was shoved in one too many lockers when he was in high school. :D We had one on our small local lake that had an attitude a few years ago and it was very unpleasant. He got himself a db meter and started testing boats. Had no clue what the proper procedure was and didn't like it when I told him he was doing it wrong. He told me to start my motor up and rev it up! LOL

Thankfully, he retired next year and his replacement was great. Always came over and said hi.

[mattyboy]

Carl it sounds like this new cop was shoved in one too many lockers when he was in high school. :D We had one on our small local lake that had an attitude a few years ago and it was very unpleasant. He got himself a db meter and started testing boats. Had no clue what the proper procedure was and didn't like it when I told him he was doing it wrong. He told me to start my motor up and rev it up! LOL

Thankfully, he retired next year and his replacement was great. Always came over and said hi.


yes personalities can "Amplify" the matter. most of these guys are summer hires remember. that means they most likely are newbies and looking to prove themselves which can be a bad combination sometimes. they haven't got real world training and are fresh out of the academy


we had a newbie a few years back he always went out of his way to stop a guy with a 22 classic that has gil exhaust, boat was loud but there were louder on the lake. The guy with the 22 was a model "good" boater but like clock work he pulled away from the docks and got pulled over. It didn't help that he had NJ numbers on it in NY but Jersey is the other end of the lake.

He was a great customer to the marinas and rest's. in the NY end of the lake. He got sick of it and spoke to the mayor. He told the mayor buy the db meter test me write me a ticket and I'll take my business elsewhere . I think the mayor had a talk with the newbie cause that harrasment stopped.
Funny thing is the newbie is an oldtimer now and has changed from the frig 'em gig'em school to only singling out the real trouble on the lake.

he was the patrolmen that stopped and gave me the speed warning.

He said i was going faster than 45, I said that was impossible cause my right arm didn't hurt. he looked at me like wtf????I went on to say , "see officer when my wife is in the boat and i go too fast she punches me in the right arm and that usually happens at around 40 mph " he laughed and sent me on my way now we see him and we always get a big wave.

[Carl C]

The water cops have always been decent to me in through the years. What happened was an exception. I 'spect once this guy sees my new mufflers his attitude will be better.

[MOP]

Question! Many boats came with through transom from the factory, if it was delivered that way it should be grandfathered am I wrong.

I am going to research the Tempest 22" to try to find original build info and keep it on board in an attempt to ward off having the cop write paper!

[mattyboy]

prior to 1965 is the only grandfather clause infact the mfg'r and dealer could be guilty of selling an illegal boat that had thru transom and didn't comply to the 90db from the get go

thought you would be up on all this Phil???


http://www.nyss.com/NYS.html#p44

[mattyboy]

Carl
again know your regs, generally in NY you have to submit to testing but they have do it onsite. as i read it they can't make you divert to a dock to test they have to do it where they find you. most states are based on those two testing procedures sae j1970 and sae j2005 but each state has slight differences.

Lake george in ny has it own laws

Also in NY they can stop you from boating until the offense is resolved at that point if they want to make your life miserable they can. yes we can re test you the first week in oct ;)

[Donziweasel]

Glad I live in WY. Only one lake in Grand Teton National Park has regs, and that is because it is a National Park. Thier regs supercede any and all local, state or federal. I swear I think the National parks are more like a different country than part of the US.

As for the rest, knock your self out. Think you are too loud? Probably not loud enough! Think you are too fast. Probably not fast enough! :wink:

My 540 Bulldog with straight CMI's will probably be in Carl's decible lever, if not louder.

Carl, let me know what you find for clamp on's, price, and decible level with them on if you get a chance. Thanks.

JP

[blackhawk]

Glad I live in WY. Only one lake in Grand Teton National Park has regs, and that is because it is a National Park. Thier regs supercede any and all local, state or federal. I swear I think the National parks are more like a different country than part of the US.
As for the rest, knock your self out. Think you are too loud? Probably not loud enough! Think you are too fast. Probably not fast enough! :wink:
My 540 Bulldog with straight CMI's will probably be in Carl's decible lever, if not louder.
Carl, let me know what you find for clamp on's, price, and decible level with them on if you get a chance. Thanks.
JP

That's great you don't have noise laws! Where I boat most of the time they leave me alone. Just drive by and wave. My buddy is always trying to get me to come down to Grand Haven. I feel bad but I have to tell him no thanks I prefer my day of boating hassle free! :D