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View Full Version : A new Donzi owner needs advice



sbdunc12
06-28-2009, 09:11 PM
My great-uncle just gave me his donzi, and I need some advice. It is a 18' classic with a 455 Oldsmobile with a Berkley jet drive. The plan was that he would sell it to me (for a low price), but when I showed up to buy it, the motor seized up. The good news is that he gave me the boat for free because he was so frustrated, but the bad news is that I now have a boat that doesn't run.

He claims that the boat will need a new engine, but I want to first verify with a mechanic that the engine really does need to be replaced. That leads me to my first question. Can anyone recommend a shop somewhere around Fort Worth?

Based on the assumption that the engine does need to be replaced, no one that I have talked to has been able to agree on what to replace it with. Here are the three recommendations I have had so far:

1. Replace the engine with the same oldsmobile 455. This sounds the easiest, but this is already the second one the boat has had.

2. Replace it with the Mercruiser 454. This advice came from a guy that is knowlegeble about boats, but is very biased towards Mercruisers.

3. Replace both the engine and jet drive with a Mercruiser 350 and an inboard/outboard. I like the idea of the jet, but I could live without it.

So now my next question is, would you choose any of those choices above, or is there a better choice that that I don't know about yet. In terms of performance, I don't want to loose any speed (or loose much speed) with a repower, but I am not interested in making it faster. It is already plenty fast for me. Because I got the boat for free, I have some money I can throw at it, but I am still looking for affordable options.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Just Say N20
06-28-2009, 09:22 PM
Welcome.

You just got a free Donzi, even one that doesn't run, is quite a deal.

Here are some things to consider. The 18 Donzi Jets were pretty rare, so that could be a reason to keep it as a jet, if you would like to keep it original-ish.

The 455 olds was not the best engine for mating with jet pumps (as you already know, saying this is the boat's second one), as they didn't hold together very well. My experience is that the 460 Ford is probably the best engine choice of the big blocks to hook up to a jet, as they produce a lot of torque, and are very durable.

Replacing the whole drive package would require a decent amount of repair work, in that the transom would potentially have to be rebuilt if the wood was found to be rotten, and the hole in the bottom of the hull where the jet intake was would have to be filled in.

My suggestion, and this is only my opinion, would be to put in a 460 Ford and leave it a jet. If you decide you would rather have a stern drive boat, I don't believe you would have any trouble selling the jet because of their rarity, and there are always 18 SBC/sterndrive boats available.

Congratulations! Looks like a VERY nice boat. :yes:

Donzi Vol
06-28-2009, 09:25 PM
A free Donzi! Hard to beat that!

First off, welcome to the board, and to the Donzi family. It's a crazy addiction that I'm sure you'll love.

Secondly, you're in a fortunate situation (in my opinion) in that you have a boat in which you could do a number of good combinations. If it were me, I would go with what was original since you have a jet. There aren't too many of those, and I'm assuming you'd have to do some major transom work to go with a prop. I don't know that the Olds motor is what came in those...someone else could give you an idea there. If you decide to change things up, it's hard to beat a 350 merc with alpha drive. Now that's just me. There are plenty of guys who would love to see you drop a big block in with a Bravo drive and run 70+ mph. To each his own.

What year is your boat? It looks mighty nice. Would love to see some pics of the interior.

And no, I have no idea where to take it in Fort Worth (or anywhere West of the Mississippi, for that matter)...sorry.

All the best,
David

BUIZILLA
06-28-2009, 09:36 PM
congratulations....

a LOT has happened in the Olds world since that boat was built... with that said, if you decide to keep the jet drive the engine parts are easy to get. There are now aluminum heads, much stronger valvetrain and rockers, cams, blocks, cranks, rods... you name it.... the engine can be VERY reliable, very easy. Mondello Performance in Calif or Dick Miller Racing in Miss are two choices, both hate each other, but both know what they are doing.... Mondello has a great parts assortment... I know some SERIOUS Olds engine players if you go that route. A few engine pic's would be good.... i'm curious what the exhaust and intake and sea water pump setup look like... the bellhousing pattern is different on the Chevy engine since what you have is a Buick-Olds-Pontiac-Caddy pattern.... the biggest problems back then were poor impeller choices which is what hurt the Olds engines the most... that has changed now.... actually it changed more than 20 years ago...

mrfixxall
06-28-2009, 09:39 PM
Welcome to the board! theirs a whole lot to do to a olds motor to make it live:yes: theirs a few guys in the midwest that love wouking with the olds motors in squirt boats..the main key is to run a 10qt mondello oil pan and restrict oil flo to the heads and keep it in the bottom end..my buddy eric is a olds guru and if you can get it out i can talk to him and see if hes interested in doing another olds for ya.that motor is a torque monster and thats what made it so popular for squirt boats..pm me and ill get you erics phone #..

heres a link to check out, http://www.mondellotwister.com/

mattyboy
06-28-2009, 10:07 PM
that is a very unique boat not to many jet boats built I would re store just the way it came

do a search on hard candy or barry mcglaughlin (sp)

boxy help me out here will ya ;)


http://www.lgdonziclassic.com/gallery/v/album02/bmclaughlinrooster.jpg.html

sbdunc12
06-28-2009, 10:52 PM
A little more history on the boat: It is a 1974 that my great-uncle ordered new with the olds/berkley setup. Somewhere between '74 and '04, my uncle claims that be rebuilt the engine twice. Then, in 2004, he sold it on ebay to someone who joined this website for a while (I found his posts in the search). That guy messed up the engine and had it completely replaced. Then for some reason he wouldn't pay off the note and my uncle repossessed it. Since 2004 when my uncle retook possession of the boat, it has been sitting in his garage with a motor that has less than 10 hours on it.

I think I agree with those of you who have said to keep the jet drive. The problem is, I am a little nervous of keeping a olds motor after all that.

I appreciate all the responses. I am basically a blank slate when it comes to boats, so I am using the search and trying to learn as much as possible.

Here are a few more pictures. When it is light tomorrow, I can take some of the engine.

MOP
06-28-2009, 10:59 PM
Congrats & Welcome aboard! If it has been run in salt there may be a chance the Berkley is frozen and not the engine, break the coupling and give it a try. If it is the engine I would do my best to find a 455, that is a cool combo and you accessories already.

Phil

axelkloehn
06-29-2009, 02:26 AM
I have a GT21 which had a berkeley jetpump/crusader engine...

My advice: check the condition of the transom if you can.

If the wood is good under the fibreglass, keep the jet because it is really unique and rare.

If it's rotten like mine (see pic), it needs to be replaced. So I decided to go for a Merc 454/Bravo combo cause spareparts are easy to find and the drivetrain is very reliable and has been sold a million times and you might get a good price for the jet.

Cheers, Axel :germany:

yeller
06-29-2009, 02:31 AM
If it has been run in salt there may be a chance the Berkley is frozen .....Now MOP, don't get me going on myths of salt and jet drives. It's extremely unlikely the drive is siezed.


sbdunc12, keep the jet and 455. That's a great motor for jet boats. :yes:

yeller
06-29-2009, 02:34 AM
My advice: check the condition of the transom if you can.

If the wood is good under the fibreglass, keep the jet because it is really unique and rare.

If it's rotten like mine (see pic), it needs to be replaced. It doesn't matter if the wood is rotten or not. The wood in your boat was totally unnecessary. A jet drive does not need a reinforced transom.

jl1962
06-29-2009, 05:40 AM
Welcome. Great boat - nice color. Keep it original and keep it in the family!
JL

Morgan's Cloud
06-29-2009, 06:55 AM
You have a very cool uncle ...

gcarter
06-29-2009, 07:20 AM
IMHO, I'd keep it as is.
1) To reconfigure as a conventional outdrive, not only would the large holes have to be filled in by a glass guy, but the stringers and transom wood would have to be replaced and repositioned.
2) I'd follow Buizillas advice on rebuilding/replacing the Olds. He's a smart man on these subjects.
The BBF idea is credible, but bolting up to the Berkeley pump would require modifications.
There's a similar boat in Ontario I saw in Thousand Islands, NY a few years ago. It's a beautiful boat and runs well.
Good luck w/it.

olredalert
06-29-2009, 07:38 AM
-------Believe me, you can build a bullet-proof Oldsmobile 455. The above mentioned Olds gurus are very good at bullet-proofing!!! It will cost you a bit more than a rebuild of a 454 chevy but you have to factor in the cost of all the hang-on stuff. Like the motor-mounts, exhaust manifolds, fuel pump, and on and on that are on your 455 already and different on a Chevy. And then you have to buy the chevy in the first place. If all the hang-on stuff on your boat (which appears beautiful, by the way) is good the extra cost of building a bullet-proof Olds will probably level out with a chev. And,,,as bonus, you have kept a rare "jet-drive" 18 DONZI original in as close to "as-delivered" condition as possible. In the future as prices creep up on collectable DONZIs that may become an important factor.........Bill S

smbarcelow
06-29-2009, 07:49 AM
Having grown up driving my father's Checkmate jet with an Olds 455 and Jacuzzi pump, I'm biased toward keeping your setup as is. I suspect your Berkley is a high pressure pump, which is a bit different than what I grew up driving. That gets you more top end but costs you a little bit out of the hole. I wouldn't be any more afraid of the Olds than any other boat motor. Unless you use it all year, marine use is tough duty. Any engine that sits over the winter needs a little TLC when you get it back out in the spring. Even if you use it year round, boat engines spend a lot more time at higher RPM's than they would in an automobile...even a hot rod application. That said, they can be built to handle these unique conditions and be as reliable as any off-the-shelf marine motor. You just have to have a little knowledge, which you have plenty of as a result of this forum. :cool!:

Another point about the jet drive vs. outdrive: It's inherently safer because the impeller isn't out in the open. You still have to use your head, but you don't have to worry quite so much about people swimming near the jet drive and wondering if you left the key in the ignition. Just something to consider.

Congrats on your "new" Donzi and welcome to the addiction!

Donziweasel
06-29-2009, 08:31 AM
Keep the jet.....you can always find a I/O 18.....plus, you can do this.....:)

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w190/johnnyalltrans/donzijet.jpg

MOP
06-29-2009, 08:46 PM
Keep the jet.....you can always find a I/O 18.....plus, you can do this.....:)

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w190/johnnyalltrans/donzijet.jpg

Figured someone would post that shot, I had the pleasure of getting a blast out on the river in it!

Extreme Measures
06-29-2009, 09:24 PM
Welcome to the club.You will find out that the boys here know their stuff.Its the best site ever I have been a member for quite a while now and I love it.You will also meet some awesome people and make new friends. Your friends in boating. Xtreme :wink:

sbdunc12
06-29-2009, 09:40 PM
I just talked to a friend with a boat (not a donzi), and he recommended a shop for me to try here in Fort Worth. He isn't sure if they can help me with my engine, but I am going to give it a try. I will let yall know what I find out.

I have done a little research on the Oldsmobile engine, and this is something I read:
"a stock 455 does have a couple of drawbacks that are detrimental to living life above 4,000 rpm for extended periods. The 455's Achilles' heel is a poor oil return system. The narrow passages from the stock heads do not allow oil in the valvetrain to return to the pan in an efficient manner. This condition can lead to instant death for a 455 that is run wide open for extended periods of time. As rpm increases, the oil goes to the top of the motor and stays there, draining the pan dry and starving the bottom end at the same time. It doesn't take long before the inevitable happens, and the dreaded screech of metal-to-metal contact bellows from the engine compartment, driving an Olds owner to tears... The fix that will allow your motor to survive extended high-rpm runs is to restrict the oiling system and install a larger-capacity oil pan."

I found at Mondello that they carry a large capacity oil pan specifically for jet boats, so that may be something to look in to.

If anybody has a recomendation for a shop in North Texas, let me know.

1929rats
06-29-2009, 09:58 PM
I was just gonna say that.....

Keep a 455 olds motor with head work from mondello, and buy a 7-10 quart Milodon oil pan.

You can also upgrade the oil pump in that mill as well...

Ive had 455's in various muscle cars throughout the years....one that made me SH*T my pants when I pulled the front wheels about 3' off the ground - however thats for another chat board.

Keep the berkley jet drive.....that is a sweet boat.

Good luck!

BUIZILLA
06-30-2009, 06:21 AM
www.442.com (http://www.442.com)

www.realoldspower.com (http://www.realoldspower.com)

Conquistador_del_mar
06-30-2009, 10:03 AM
I just talked to a friend with a boat (not a donzi), and he recommended a shop for me to try here in Fort Worth. He isn't sure if they can help me with my engine, but I am going to give it a try. I will let yall know what I find out.
If anybody has a recomendation for a shop in North Texas, let me know.

You might try calling Kim Barr over in Garland. I hear nothing but good things about their work. They might know someone who specializes in Olds engine building. Bill

http://www.kimbarrracingengines.com/

boxy
06-30-2009, 12:35 PM
that is a very unique boat not to many jet boats built I would re store just the way it came
do a search on hard candy or barry mcglaughlin (sp)
boxy help me out here will ya ;)
http://www.lgdonziclassic.com/gallery/v/album02/bmclaughlinrooster.jpg.html

IMHO, I'd keep it as is.
There's a similar boat in Ontario I saw in Thousand Islands, ONTARIO a few years ago. It's a beautiful boat and runs well.
Good luck w/it.

Keep the jet.....you can always find a I/O 18.....plus, you can do this.....:)
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w190/johnnyalltrans/donzijet.jpg

Welcome to the club.You will find out that the boys here know their stuff.Its the best site ever I have been a member for quite a while now and I love it.You will also meet some awesome people and make new friends. Your friends in boating. Xtreme :wink:

I just left a mesage at Barry's shop. Once I have talked to him, I'll forward you his number. I'm sure he will be happy to give you some direction.
His boat Hard Candy is a solid running 18C jet.

Holy Crap, it's the X-Man ........ :D
Chris are you still at the same Marina? We are heading up to the River tonight.

Tony
06-30-2009, 04:02 PM
I have alway been a big fan of that color combination!

:beer:

sbdunc12
06-30-2009, 04:30 PM
I have alway been a big fan of that color combination!

:beer:

Thanks. My grandfather and his brother both had 18 foot donzi's. My grandfather's was green and white and my uncle got the yellow one. My grandfathers had the normal inboard /outboard, and some close family friends still own it. I wish I had a picture of them both in the water next to each other.

My grandfather and my great-uncle used to admire LBJ's secret service flying around Lake Buchanan on their Donzis. Eventually when they had the money, they bought their own Donzis.