28 ZX planing

[VetteLT193]

Finally got the boat out for a bit. Runs great, only had it up to about 50 MPH. ride is spectacular. handling is different than what I'm used to, azz end steers first and the bow follows... turns pretty flat compared to all the other V hulls I've ever driven. Not complaining, just stating the difference.

So... the down side. The boat SUCKS getting on plane. We had 3 adults in the main part of the boat, one in each front seat + my wife on the back bench. My wife was holding the 3 month old back there too. I also had my niece and daughter hanging out in the cabin.

Tabs down, trim in. Blew the props out the first try. Second try I finessed it up. took a while and seemed quite odd. It planed a LOT like my brother's 22 with the M+ and raised X dimension. One false move and you have to drop it down to idle and start over.

It was like that every time I tried. Boat has 6.2's, 23" Mirage + props, 1.65 drives. I swear these are the wrong props. Donzi says they are they are the right ones.



Any comments? ideas, etc?

[roadtrip se]

You might try some Mirage 25's and see what happens, but I have never seen a 28 run in stock formation with anything other than three blades.

It is a finesse thing. No reason to be in a hurry. Get the tabs down and leave them down, until you are on plane. Same thing goes for the drives.
Easy on the throttles and then roll her up on plane. A little tilt of the wheel helps with this last part.

And I would not have people riding in the bow or mid-cabin either. Great place to lounge on the hook, but the weight can't help.

As for the flat riding part, yep, they all do that too. Even a little wet in the rough.

[mrfixxall]

Finally got the boat out for a bit. Runs great, only had it up to about 50 MPH. ride is spectacular. handling is different than what I'm used to, azz end steers first and the bow follows... turns pretty flat compared to all the other V hulls I've ever driven. Not complaining, just stating the difference.

So... the down side. The boat SUCKS getting on plane. We had 3 adults in the main part of the boat, one in each front seat + my wife on the back bench. My wife was holding the 3 month old back there too. I also had my niece and daughter hanging out in the cabin.

Tabs down, trim in. Blew the props out the first try. Second try I finessed it up. took a while and seemed quite odd. It planed a LOT like my brother's 22 with the M+ and raised X dimension. One false move and you have to drop it down to idle and start over.

It was like that every time I tried. Boat has 6.2's, 23" Mirage + props, 1.65 drives. I swear these are the wrong props. Donzi says they are they are the right ones.



Any comments? ideas, etc?

Are the props spinning inward? with the 1.65 ratio and the stepped hull it will blow the props out that boat needs a set of 4 blades..once your rockin and rollen the boat is ok rite!

a friend of mine has a stepped hull foumula and 1.65 ratio brives and with the mirage + props he can barely get on plane..1/4 tab drives in all the way and it does better..since then we put a set of bravo 4 plades and it pops up on plane..then we put a set of maximus 5 blad prop on the boat and it got even better:) we couldnt keep the boat on plane with the mirage + props upder 29mph, 25 mph with the 4 blade bravo and 20 with the maximus. if you can get ahold of a set of maximus props you will notice a big differance not only on how fast it planes off but he uses 1/2 the fuel also with the props.

contact truiser,he may have some input because he has the same problem..

Too much tab is like having a piece of plywood screwed to your transm holding back water:)

[Z-Man]

My initial response is too much tab. My boat will plane is smooth water with the tabs fully up. In rougher water, i usually have them set at a 2 setting. I'm running the standard 23's.

When I ran too much tab I had the same problem. I hope this helps.

[VetteLT193]

Ok... so too much tab could hurt, and different props. I know I can prop test later for sure... I'll try lifting the tabs next weekend and see how that does.

I was wondering if dropping the tabs might hurt this setup, that might be it.

And, I was not in a hurry... it was a long plane time. longer than an express cruiser or sport fish. It's like the props had no bit whatsoever.

[mrfixxall]

Ok... so too much tab could hurt, and different props. I know I can prop test later for sure.
I was wondering if dropping the tabs might hurt this setup, that might be it.


Vette the maximus props are wicked,not the fastest (3mph slower)but hold the boat alot better then the 3 blades and fuel cost is half:)

[The Hedgehog]

My initial response is too much tab. My boat will plane is smooth water with the tabs fully up. In rougher water, i usually have them set at a 2 setting. I'm running the standard 23's.

When I ran too much tab I had the same problem. I hope this helps.

Yep:yes:

[VetteLT193]

Alrighty... tabs up this weekend. We'll see how it goes. :cool:

[Trueser]

You might try some Mirage 25's and see what happens, but I have never seen a 28 run in stock formation with anything other than three blades.

It is a finesse thing. No reason to be in a hurry. Get the tabs down and leave them down, until you are on plane. Same thing goes for the drives.
Easy on the throttles and then roll her up on plane. A little tilt of the wheel helps with this last part.

And I would not have people riding in the bow or mid-cabin either. Great place to lounge on the hook, but the weight can't help.

As for the flat riding part, yep, they all do that too. Even a little wet in the rough.

Putting a set of 25 Mirage will make it worse. Why did they use 1.65 drives? I agree no tab or very little. In calm water I don't have any issues getting on plane. Rough water is pain...I should have more info in a couple of weeks.

very low RPM will help.
Turning the boat hard back and forth will also help.
People forward should also help.
I never had luck with the tabs down.

I plan on trying some 4 blades soon.

Seat time is needed.

Good luck

[roadtrip se]

Oaky, I stand corrected. Every Fountain I had ran the way I described, but a ZX isn't a Fountain. Okay, then.

Back to the Classic, where I belong.

Good luck with the boat Vette.

[Donziweasel]

Get rid of the 1.65 gears, see if Donzi will cover it. With 640 hp, you shouldn't need them. Next, since you are blowing out the props, time for some propping after the gear change. Gear change might help a bunch too.......

[mattyboy]

I would leave it alone for now, learn to coax her on plane and she how see runs, think about it with the tabs you are forcing the nose down then the back comes up , the back is already sucking in air with the steps the higher the back goes the more air is in there less water for the props to grab.

I would not change gears until I saw how the top end and rpms are with what you have, I am of the school it is easier to prop up then gear down and prop down

love the colors on that boat good luck with it :)

[BUIZILLA]

i'd run the 1.65's with 4 blades and call it good

[jimishooch]

every boat is different and every driver is different. i can put my 33' scarab (stepped) on plane at 2500 rpm. tabs down and drives in. i ease into her at 500 rpm increments. once the nose starts to come down the tabs go neutral and the drives go out and i can feel her launch herself. no hole shot here.
lots of seat time is the only way.

[FISHIN SUCKS]

Why did they use 1.65 drives?
I believe this is a standard with the 6.2's, and if I understand it correctly, Deric (ShowNGoH2O) has had problems with the 1.65 gear ratio paired with the 6.2's. Check with him for more on that one.

I am of the consensus to not use much tab when coming out of the hole. Granted, I have K-planes whereas it looks like you have the twin ram bennetts, but my setting is between 2 and 3, drives all the way down and I don't start trimming up until I am just cresting plane. One other thing, I don't ease into the throttle, it is full steam ahead and right now, no feathering with me. I also don't have to turn my steering wheel or anything like that. My props are also the stock 23P's. If I try to take off with the drives not all the way down, I will cavitate just before approaching plane. And I don't play with the tabs unless I have more weight on one side of the boat, wanna go fast as possible, or just wanna cruise on plane and not stare at the bow while doing so. One other thing, I also only have the twin 350 mags.

Hope all works well, Unconquered is beautiful,

tom

[jimishooch]

for what it's worth..........

go to sport boat videos, secrets of speed part 1 & 2.

http://www.fountainpowerboats.com/sport/multimedia/general_vids.html (http://www.fountainpowerboats.com/sport/multimedia/general_vids.html)

[FISHIN SUCKS]

Pretty straight forward, but you can kinda see the position of the trim tabs in the 4th pic, and I never touched them the whole time.

[Ghost]

for what it's worth..........

go to sport boat videos, secrets of speed part 1 & 2.

http://www.fountainpowerboats.com/sport/multimedia/general_vids.html (http://www.fountainpowerboats.com/sport/multimedia/general_vids.html)


In part 1, fast forward to 5:30 or so in the video to get to Reggie's advice on tabs and drive trim coming out of the hole.

[handfulz28]

In part 1, fast forward to 5:30 or so in the video to get to Reggie's advice on tabs and drive trim coming out of the hole.

WOW, how old can that video be? FWIW, I doubt he'd give the same advice for a stepped hull versus a straight bottom.

Formula's 292Fastech is notorius for being slow to plane. More blades plus seat time is best advice.

[VetteLT193]

I believe this is a standard with the 6.2's, and if I understand it correctly, Deric (ShowNGoH2O) has had problems with the 1.65 gear ratio paired with the 6.2's. Check with him for more on that one.
I am of the consensus to not use much tab when coming out of the hole. Granted, I have K-planes whereas it looks like you have the twin ram bennetts, but my setting is between 2 and 3, drives all the way down and I don't start trimming up until I am just cresting plane. One other thing, I don't ease into the throttle, it is full steam ahead and right now, no feathering with me. I also don't have to turn my steering wheel or anything like that. My props are also the stock 23P's. If I try to take off with the drives not all the way down, I will cavitate just before approaching plane. And I don't play with the tabs unless I have more weight on one side of the boat, wanna go fast as possible, or just wanna cruise on plane and not stare at the bow while doing so. One other thing, I also only have the twin 350 mags.
Hope all works well, Unconquered is beautiful,
tom

Don't you have 350 Mags in your boat? 1.5's or 1.65 drives? If you have 350's, 1.5's, and 23" props it's senseless that I have the same props, more power, and more reduction. :nilly:

[FISHIN SUCKS]

Don't you have 350 Mags in your boat? 1.5's or 1.65 drives? If you have 350's, 1.5's, and 23" props it's senseless that I have the same props, more power, and more reduction. :nilly:
Yes, I do have the 350mag/300HP's, not sure on my drives other than Bravo1's, and definitely 23" props. As you can see in my photos, Barbi and Kayla in back, Tommy and I up front, when we were at AOTH with 6 adults on board, I took off the same way as the photo's shown above, drives down, tabs untouched at about 2-3 (my K-plane indicator), and then trim up once on plane. Mike and Andre (Trueser and Z-Man) probably know better what I have for gears in my boat (sad I don't know, I know:garfield:).

[gold-n-rod]

Mike and Andre (Trueser and Z-Man) probably know better what I have for gears in my boat (sad I don't know, I know:garfield:).

Your drive ratio is stamped into the Mercrusier decal stripe on the port side of the drive.

[jimishooch]

WOW, how old can that video be? FWIW, I doubt he'd give the same advice for a stepped hull versus a straight bottom.

Formula's 292Fastech is notorius for being slow to plane. More blades plus seat time is best advice.

he had a more current video on a stepped version not to long ago using the same principles of getting on plane, with the new redigned website it disappeared.

[jimishooch]

photo #3 proves that i finesse my boat on plane. that's pushing some water! what? 3500-4000 rpm?

[VetteLT193]

Your drive ratio is stamped into the Mercrusier decal stripe on the port side of the drive.

FWIW Mine are in that merc stripe, but on the starboard side. I have the newer drives with curvy upper and dual water pickups though

[FISHIN SUCKS]

photo #3 proves that i finesse my boat on plane. that's pushing some water! what? 3500-4000 rpm?
Quite honestly Jimi, I was trimmin' a little soon there for the picture for the 'rooster' shot (and I like the sound of the roar from the twins), but to be more efficient, I could have (and have), left the drives down without ANY cavitation. You are pretty much dead on, right around 3800-4000 rpm's in #3.

[SilverBack]

I don't touch my tabs except when I am going really fast to stabilize the boat a little. I know that my Maximus is the best prop by far for cruise and getting on plane. I have a totally different setup with a single and higher X dimension. I can't see any way that you need a higher gear ratio if you are in a 23P prop now. You can do a lot with a Maximus to get it just right later. BBlades has a loaner program and he has All the Mercury and Turbo stuff to try and it is just 25 bucks plus shipping to try.

[Last Real Texan]

Finally got the boat out for a bit. Runs great, only had it up to about 50 MPH. ride is spectacular. handling is different than what I'm used to, azz end steers first and the bow follows... turns pretty flat compared to all the other V hulls I've ever driven. Not complaining, just stating the difference.

So... the down side. The boat SUCKS getting on plane. We had 3 adults in the main part of the boat, one in each front seat + my wife on the back bench. My wife was holding the 3 month old back there too. I also had my niece and daughter hanging out in the cabin.

Tabs down, trim in. Blew the props out the first try. Second try I finessed it up. took a while and seemed quite odd. It planed a LOT like my brother's 22 with the M+ and raised X dimension. One false move and you have to drop it down to idle and start over.

It was like that every time I tried. Boat has 6.2's, 23" Mirage + props, 1.65 drives. I swear these are the wrong props. Donzi says they are they are the right ones.



Any comments? ideas, etc?

6.2's and 1.65's sounds like they are left over drives...meaning that is what they had when it came to puting it together, not the optimal combo but I would think but it will work...boat is not going to be a speed demon so throw some 4 blades on it and rock on and enjoy it.


great boat but odd drive package...
Tex

[mrfixxall]

6.2's and 1.65's sounds like they are left over drives...meaning that is what they had when it came to puting it together, not the optimal combo but I would think but it will work...boat is not going to be a speed demon so throw some 4 blades on it and rock on and enjoy it.


great boat but odd drive package...
Tex


My buddys formula 311 has bbc mpi motors and 1.65 ratio drives,thats why we went with the maximus props,just spun the 3 blades..

[BUIZILLA]

out of the box Bravo 24's :yes:

call it a day

[Last Real Texan]

out of the box Bravo 24's :yes:

call it a day
Amen Brother....

[jimishooch]

Quite honestly Jimi, I was trimmin' a little soon there for the picture for the 'rooster' shot (and I like the sound of the roar from the twins), but to be more efficient, I could have (and have), left the drives down without ANY cavitation. You are pretty much dead on, right around 3800-4000 rpm's in #3.

sounds like a jet taken off back there don't it?! yippee

[FISHIN SUCKS]

sounds like a jet taken off back there don't it?! yippee
EXACTLY!!! You have one of these too? Or were you the previous owner of my boat:eek:? Maybe that explains why my fuel tank is always low.....you're comin up from Texas to Indiana and joy-ridin' my boat!

[jimishooch]

EXACTLY!!! You have one of these too? Or were you the previous owner of my boat:eek:? Maybe that explains why my fuel tank is always low.....you're comin up from Texas to Indiana and joy-ridin' my boat!

had a 28zx for a season (from florida) then moved up to my scarab. talk about gas consumption.......twin hp500 carbs.

[VetteLT193]

If anyone with a 28 with twins can verify their engine / drive / prop package I'd really appreciate it.

I have no leverage with Donzi to get new props without some information.

[mrfixxall]

VETTE, i just look on oso at 28 zx's..2 scorps and 1 6.2 horizons all had 25p mirage props..They may be putting 23's on your boat to carry the xtra load with it being a open bow..

[VetteLT193]

VETTE, i just look on oso at 28 zx's..2 scorps and 1 6.2 horizons all had 25p mirage props..They may be putting 23's on your boat to carry the xtra load with it being a open bow..

They have labbed props plus they don't list drive ratio. The standard 28 is actually listed with a slightly higher weight, so it can't be the weight issue.

I really need to know factory specs so I can battle Donzi if need be.

The props they gave me were brand new, in boxes, so it could have just been a mistake by them. I just need for them to see the light.

[roadtrip se]

This isn't about learning to drive a new boat.

Just as an FYI, I looked pretty hard at ZXOs last fall, before going the Formula direction. All has 23 Mirages on them, unless they were Scorpion powered, new and used. So that is the way they ship.

There is a weight issue with ZXOs, when you start loading up the bow with people, which I imagine is highly likely.

You go bigger, and you will get more bite at take-off, but the top end isn't going to be there, which is why all performance manufacturers tend to prop for "the "number".

The new Formula SS came with Bravo3's at 26 pitch. I think it could turn 28s.
Haven't messed with it yet, but the thought never occurred to me to call Formula and ask them to swap them out for me. Stupid me.

Why don't you just buy a set of 25's and sell off the 23's, if they end up working better on your application?

[VetteLT193]

It might very well be about learning to drive the boat. I'd like to cross check facts though to be sure.

I also have seen most of these boats with 23" props on them, Scorps seem to have 25" props though, at least the ones I looked at.

We'll see this weekend as far as weight goes. Friday is planned on a 8 adults + 3 kids outing.

[BUIZILLA]

is this the ONLY 28 with 1.65 drives???

that changes the equation...

[VetteLT193]

is this the ONLY 28 with 1.65 drives???

that changes the equation...

And the main thing I'm trying to figure out.

I am taking a guess that the 350's came with 1.5's and 23" props. The 6.2's with 1.62's and 25" props would yield a slight bump overall, so it would be about like putting 24" props on 1.5's, but I think merc sticks to odd numbers.

So it might be a way around using even numbered props.

[BigGrizzly]

Vette, Let me do some checking.

[Z-Man]

I'm fairly confident that I'm on 1.5's but I will check this weekend. I have spun a pair of 25 pitch 4-blade Hydromotives and loved it. The handling was great. No issues planing. Running a pair of 350 mags with it.

[VetteLT193]

My brother's prop is at BBlades from the gift certificate he bought at AOTH during the auction.

While he was on the phone with them he asked them about my boat. BBlades suggested 26" Bravo 1 4 blades.

Not sure what that is worth, just putting it out there.

[Trueser]

I think that those should be perfect.

I plan on trying a set hopefully next week.

[The Hedgehog]

So what is a ZXO supposed to run with a couple of 6.2's?

I would expect that if you put 300-400 lbs of people up front it would make a pretty big difference. We have seen several mph drop in a regular ZX just by sending 1 200 lb person to the bow.

[VetteLT193]

So what is a ZXO supposed to run with a couple of 6.2's?
I would expect that if you put 300-400 lbs of people up front it would make a pretty big difference. We have seen several mph drop in a regular ZX just by sending 1 200 lb person to the bow.

I won't be doing any top end runs with people up front, so that should be a moot point.

I can tell you my boat has been 69 MPH before. Not sure what props were used to get to that number. I also don't know the circumstances, like who was on the boat, if there was any more power left, etc. Just going by the tattle GPS speedo.

[gold-n-rod]

I can tell you my boat has been 69 MPH before. Not sure what props were used to get to that number. I also don't know the circumstances, like who was on the boat, if there was any more power left, etc. Just going by the tattle GPS speedo.

On the trailer going down the highway? :nilly:

[VetteLT193]

On the trailer going down the highway? :nilly:

I'd assumed that if it had a number over 80. :bonk:

[roadtrip se]

Brett seems to try and sell everyone a Bravo One prop. Problem is they are a stern lifting prop in stock congig.

The Hydros are more of a
modified four blade cleaver with less stern lift and more bow height. Might
be what the Doc ordered. I would try a set of 24s. Chancea are you will end up with a nice stock set-up out of the box.

[handfulz28]

Problem is they are a stern lifting prop in stock congig.

The Hydros are more of a modified four blade cleaver with less stern lift and more bow height.

Not claiming any expertise on my behalf, but those comments are opposite from just about everything I've read. B1s (round ear) are supposed to be more of a bow lifter, Hydros (cleaver style) are more of a stern lift prop. Some stepped hulls seem to prefer the extra stern lift, others just need more blade.

[rtgogo]

not gunna be much help with my smaller setup, but I run a Bravo 1 four blade on my stepped 22zx. No tabs and throttle down throws her up on plane pretty quick. Bow really stays up in the air if I try to ease her up.....

[roadtrip se]

Not claiming any expertise on my behalf, but those comments are opposite from just about everything I've read. B1s (round ear) are supposed to be more of a bow lifter, Hydros (cleaver style) are more of a stern lift prop. Some stepped hulls seem to prefer the extra stern lift, others just need more blade.

but I have run both on stepped boats and on my Classic, but not a ZX.

The Bravo One is a graduated pitch prop that is designed to provide stern lift on high x-dim, stepped Vs and Cats. My experience has been that these things stock out of the box produce an incredible amout of stern lift and very little nose lift, unless cupped dramtically. Hence the reason the lab shops love them, because you get to pay them for modifications to make these things run.

The Hydro Q4 is less of a progressive pitch and has much more cup inherently built into its design. So yes, the cleaver design does lift the stern, but the cup gives the nose lift too, allowing the best of both worlds. I think it is a much better prop in some instances, because the typical labbing done is for thinning and balancing on our boats, not a complete re-work.

I stand by what I said from personal experience. Ultimate end? Never know until you try it, and I discount everything I read unless I have personal experience with it or in a friend's boat. Too may experts out there.

Now back to spark plugs and oil.

[BigGrizzly]

Sorry but I am wit Road trip On the props. Brette does push the Bravo1, because that is what he knows and the tempest. No different then me pushing the TXP, But I do Know what I am dealing w3ith the boats I prop. How many people really have this experience, with a Skater I would bow to him. I have my own idea about the props and I think we need a 4 blade but a OS design or even a TXP type. BTW NO one has ever done i.

[VetteLT193]

Went back out yesterday.

Planing sucks. Period. I tried trim in / out. the most success was trim all the way in.

Tabs, I tried all over. All the way up. All the way down. Half, 1/4, 3/4, etc.

The most success I had was to put the tabs all the way down start planing while simultaneously moving the tabs up and feathering the throttles. I only have 2 hands, so this method stinks, and it is still blow out central.

Steering the boat some back and forth made it worse, almost instant blow out in at least 1 drive. It's also possible to blow out one prop when cruising and turning... that is recoverable though.

For each time I wanted to get the boat on plane, it generally took 3 tries to actually get it on plane.

A storm rolled in, we saw some big waves - 4 foot nutty chop waves - and I thought I'd NEVER get the boat up on plane.

So... thoughts? Did any other ZX owners check their drives yet?

[SilverBack]

Get two 23 p maximus and you will be a lot better off and love your cruise. Planning and cruise are much more important than top end anyway!

[BUIZILLA]

maybe Ted can chime in with an educated and experienced opinion.... I was of the understanding that EVERY boat outside the Classic series was factory water tested before sale/delivery?

[gcarter]

I know my old Minx wasn't a twin or a stepped hull, but the Hydro Q4 on the Minx was blowout proof.
Other props weren't.

[VetteLT193]

maybe Ted can chime in with an educated and experienced opinion.... I was of the understanding that EVERY boat outside the Classic series was factory water tested before sale/delivery?

Assuming it was tested, we still don't know what props it was tested with. The ones I got were brand new, sealed boxes.

[The Hedgehog]

but I have run both on stepped boats and on my Classic, but not a ZX.
The Bravo One is a graduated pitch prop that is designed to provide stern lift on high x-dim, stepped Vs and Cats. My experience has been that these things stock out of the box produce an incredible amout of stern lift and very little nose lift, unless cupped dramtically. Hence the reason the lab shops love them, because you get to pay them for modifications to make these things run.
The Hydro Q4 is less of a progressive pitch and has much more cup inherently built into its design. So yes, the cleaver design does lift the stern, but the cup gives the nose lift too, allowing the best of both worlds. I think it is a much better prop in some instances, because the typical labbing done is for thinning and balancing on our boats, not a complete re-work.
I stand by what I said from personal experience. Ultimate end? Never know until you try it, and I discount everything I read unless I have personal experience with it or in a friend's boat. Too may experts out there.
Now back to spark plugs and oil.

What he said.

I am pretty sure that I have now taken the Stock Bravo I to the limits of what it will do with a ZX hull.

Let's just say that the guy in the Outerlimits with the Teague 1,100's (#6's)and the Hustler with the Young 950's (Arnesons) were both very impressed.

We all put the hammer down at 80 and had a blast!

It was the first time I dropped the hammer on mine and stayed in. Let's just say that the tabs helped.

Oh yeah, I held my own. 103 mph is not too bad for a 26! Right between the Hustler at 101 and the Outlimits at 110. Always good to have a few friends around at such a time.

Now that my hairdryer is fixed if only I could run with one of those Cigs.

[mrfixxall]

Went back out yesterday.
Planing sucks. Period. I tried trim in / out. the most success was trim all the way in.
Tabs, I tried all over. All the way up. All the way down. Half, 1/4, 3/4, etc.
The most success I had was to put the tabs all the way down start planing while simultaneously moving the tabs up and feathering the throttles. I only have 2 hands, so this method stinks, and it is still blow out central.
Steering the boat some back and forth made it worse, almost instant blow out in at least 1 drive. It's also possible to blow out one prop when cruising and turning... that is recoverable though.
For each time I wanted to get the boat on plane, it generally took 3 tries to actually get it on plane.
A storm rolled in, we saw some big waves - 4 foot nutty chop waves - and I thought I'd NEVER get the boat up on plane.
So... thoughts? Did any other ZX owners check their drives yet?


Again:) which way is your props spinning,inwards or outwards? also is their vent holes in the props? If your props are spinning inwards try swaping them feft to right but you have to run your boat in reverse to go forward..spinning outwards it will give your boat more push,spinning inwards will give your boat more lift in the A$$ end..if you swap them be cautious because your boat may have major porporsing going on..it dont hurt to try it.

[VetteLT193]

Again:) which way is your props spinning,inwards or outwards? also is their vent holes in the props? If your props are spinning inwards try swaping them feft to right but you have to run your boat in reverse to go forward..spinning outwards it will give your boat more push,spinning inwards will give your boat more lift in the A$$ end..if you swap them be cautious because your boat may have major porporsing going on..it dont hurt to try it.

Spinning inwards, meaning the left prop spins clockwise looking at the boat on the trailer.

I went back out again today. 6 adults, 2 kids. I said F the break in, lets see what it does with these props. I hit 5200 (rev limiter) at every trim angle. I could literally put the drives all the way in and still spin 5200. I hit 66 MPH (GPS) at the right trim. Even all the way in, screwed up trim, it did 60.

[mrfixxall]

Spinning inwards, meaning the left prop spins clockwise looking at the boat on the trailer.
I went back out again today. 6 adults, 2 kids. I said F the break in, lets see what it does with these props. I hit 5200 (rev limiter) at every trim angle. I could literally put the drives all the way in and still spin 5200. I hit 66 MPH (GPS) at the right trim. Even all the way in, screwed up trim, it did 60.


yes the port prop should be spinning clock wise on that boat. if you go to a 25p mirage i think its going to be worse,the diametor on your 23 are 14 5/8 and the 25 p mirage are 14 1/2..I would call barry and bitch!! and see if he would swap what you have for a set as mentioned of bravo1's 15 1/4 x 24 should put you at 5000 rpms..:)

[BigGrizzly]

I am not gtoing to give a sales pitch but The pitch is too small and I am not a fan of the M+ on that application. Every runs them be cause everyone has them on. If it were my boat I would go to another maker of props. Walk away from 5 blades it is just not in the cards.

[SilverBack]

I am not gtoing to give a sales pitch but The pitch is too small and I am not a fan of the M+ on that application. Every runs them be cause everyone has them on. If it were my boat I would go to another maker of props. Walk away from 5 blades it is just not in the cards.

I think that we can get a friendly wager going here if you are saying that the Maximus will not be better for planning than the M+ or TXP. :yes:


.....so how much do you want to bet???:party: I have run all 3 props and the other 2 are not even close to a Maximus for planning. I know the cruise will be higher too......I do NOT have any idea what it would do to the top end however.

[BigGrizzly]

Here is the trade off, His top end will be sacrificed. Now These are out of the box. I will bet that i can get better all around performance, with my props then you can on his boat with a pair of Maximus. BTW, I have done this before. Bob doesn't have the power or the hull to do the Max's. Ted used labbed to the hill Mirage +s. Then talk to the Truser man. These babies don't have pads. This is just THE reason I have stayed out of this Discussio, because you would make that challenge. If he wants a hole shot I could put on a couple of 15 inch pitch OS1s on it and it will plane like a rocket but go 28 mph at top end. so what does that prove. There IS NO ONE PROP FOR ALL CONDITIONS and all drivers a
You just don't know when to quit. Trust me on this if the Max was better It would have been on the boat from Donzi. The Max came out about the same time that 28 ZX was introduced for the price of $1200 each

[VetteLT193]

Donzi likes stuff they have on the shelf.... They are sending me a set of Maximus props to try. If I like them more than the M+ I can keep them. I told Craig in detail what I found in my research and how the boat drove... Based on that he's sending Maximus.

I suspect they didn't use Maximus to start off with because putting 2-3 grand worth of props on a boat in this price segment isn't exactly a good business idea.

How will they work? I dunno, we'll see. I trust Grizz's opinion, but Donzi has Merc stuff on the shelf so I'm going to try to get the best Merc prop for it at least for now. I can get new props later to fine tune it.

[mrfixxall]

donzi likes stuff they have on the shelf.... They are sending me a set of maximus props to try. If i like them more than the m+ i can keep them. I told craig in detail what i found in my research and how the boat drove... Based on that he's sending maximus.
I suspect they didn't use maximus to start off with because putting 2-3 grand worth of props on a boat in this price segment isn't exactly a good business idea.
How will they work? I dunno, we'll see. I trust grizz's opinion, but donzi has merc stuff on the shelf so i'm going to try to get the best merc prop for it at least for now. I can get new props later to fine tune it.


yurgonnalovethem!:)


you will lose 3-4 mph but their worth having in the amount of fuel you will be saving.

[VetteLT193]

yurgonnalovethem!:)
you will lose 3-4 mph but their worth having in the amount of fuel you will be saving.

We'll see. I hope they get here by the weekend:crossfing:

[SilverBack]

What pitch? You are going to be so surprised!! Good Luck! The cruise is going to be worth it for what you do!

[VetteLT193]

What pitch? You are going to be so surprised!! Good Luck! The cruise is going to be worth it for what you do!

they are sending me 25" to try. I'm hoping I can spin them to 5000, but that could be a pipe dream. If I can spin them to 4800 I'll be where I am now for top speed, at least in theory. If they don't work then I'll try something else :wink:

[BigGrizzly]

I would do the same thing if it were me. Good luck with them it is always worth a try.

[SilverBack]

I was talking with Brett at BBlades today and I brought up your boat and he disagreed with me on the Maximus. He thinks that the Rev 4 is the best prop for your boat. I did not even think about that prop. He says that you will more than likely loose 600 or so rpms on the top end and the boat may feel sluggish with 25 Maximus but he still thinks that you will like them much better than the M+.

[VetteLT193]

I was talking with Brett at BBlades today and I brought up your boat and he disagreed with me on the Maximus. He thinks that the Rev 4 is the best prop for your boat. I did not even think about that prop. He says that you will more than likely loose 600 or so rpms on the top end and the boat may feel sluggish with 25 Maximus but he still thinks that you will like them much better than the M+.

Well, I'm past 5200 and I think on the limiter of the engines now so I might still be at 4800 or so. Depending on slip, which one would think would be low with 5 blades, I might still be @ 65 top end but with a faster cruise. I can handle that result.

I sure am itching to try it. I hope they get here by the weekend.

[VetteLT193]

I was talking with Brett at BBlades today and I brought up your boat and he disagreed with me on the Maximus. He thinks that the Rev 4 is the best prop for your boat. I did not even think about that prop. He says that you will more than likely loose 600 or so rpms on the top end and the boat may feel sluggish with 25 Maximus but he still thinks that you will like them much better than the M+.

the crazy thing about Brett is my brother talked to him last week and he said 26 Bravo 1's. WTF.

[SilverBack]

the crazy thing about Brett is my brother talked to him last week and he said 26 Bravo 1's. WTF.


That is kind of crazy..I asked about Bravo 1 when he said Rev 4 and he said that he thought that the Rev 4 was better for what (I think) that you were trying for. I bet I did not describe something right to him.

[BigGrizzly]

I have heard this before, more then once.

[VetteLT193]

That is kind of crazy..I asked about Bravo 1 when he said Rev 4 and he said that he thought that the Rev 4 was better for what (I think) that you were trying for. I bet I did not describe something right to him.

I have heard this before, more then once.


I'm sure you did ok explaining it... 28 Donzi twin step, 1.65 Bravos, Crappy ass plane with 23" M+ props.

I told Donzi what Brett originally said, about the 26" Bravos, but he wanted to 'tweak' them... Of course, that is not an off the shelf product and personally I call BS when someone says to put a wheel on that is going to suck until it is tweaked. plus Roadtrip's comment made a lot of sense to me. Being a logical person, and knowing Fixxall hasn't lead me wrong yet, I was more than happy with the off the shelf Maximus choice for a trial.

I hope they work well. I don't want to go back and forth with props forever via mail.

[SilverBack]

I think you are on the right track anyway. I would have liked to see you get a couple inches less pitch with the Maximus but I think considering how your planning has been going and that you spend a lot more time cruising ..you should be happy. Plus the Maximus is very tweak able if you want to get top end back or to have more acceleration. Lets see how they work out!!:crossfing: I hope that you get them for this weekend!!

[BUIZILLA]

Donzi sending out a Maximus package is pretty gracious in my book..

[SilverBack]

Donzi sending out a Maximus package is pretty gracious in my book..


I was thinking the same thing but on the other hand it is pretty bad sending out a boat with props that will barely plane out! Like you said these are pretty expensive props to make it right though.

[Trueser]

If they are sending you Mirage plus 25 you will not like them. Trust me getting on plane will still suck!!!!!or even worse.... Other than the drive ratio our boats are close. I agree with Buzilla on the Bravo 1 24 pitch. I have a spare set of labbed 25 pitch that I can ship you.

Do your drives spin in or out?

I sent you my number give me a call.

It took me a long time to get use to the stepped hull. I do not have anymore issues getting on plane.

[VetteLT193]

Donzi sending out a Maximus package is pretty gracious in my book..

+1. or +10. I didn't expect it. It's not exactly the bargain basement prop set. I can attest that Craig is trying to make me a happy camper. I also didn't bitch and complain, I literally asked him what to do and what research I did and laid it on the table.

[VetteLT193]

If they are sending you Mirage plus 25 you will not like them. Trust me getting on plane will still suck!!!!!or even worse.... Other than the drive ratio our boats are close. I agree with Buzilla on the Bravo 1 24 pitch. I have a spare set of labbed 25 pitch that I can ship you.

Do your drives spin in or out?

I sent you my number give me a call.

It took me a long time to get use to the stepped hull. I do not have anymore issues getting on plane.


I'll give you a ring tomorrow, got hung up with the kids this afternoon... I appreciate it. Good time to call?

Drives spin in.

The drive ratio is a pretty big factor... I didn't think it was until I did the math, and it's bigger than I though. I think that is where my problem is.

props might be too big. if so, I'll take you up on your set as a trial.

[FISHIN SUCKS]

any updates?

[VetteLT193]

any updates?

I'm waiting on the new set of props from Donzi. I was hoping to get them Saturday but they didn't come. I'm hoping for today.

Yesterday I went out and really got on it in good step bottom conditions. I'm hitting the rev limiters now... I can hear it beeping at me.

I'm better at planing with this setup. Trim in, tabs full down. Throttle up to 3000 then immediately pull the tabs half way, throttle up to 4000, immediately pull the tabs all the way up then deal with the drive trim. That works in calm water. if it's rough, it's a crap shoot. Any kind of wave makes the props blow out.

[The Hedgehog]

So what kind of slip or speed are you getting with these props?

[VetteLT193]

So what kind of slip or speed are you getting with these props?

Yesterday I did 64 MPH, GPS. 6%-7% slip depending on how you slice the numbers.

Last weekend I got 65 GPS out of it on smooth water, but I was still trying to get rid of the gas so I only had minimal fuel in it then. Rest of the load was about the same.

[Trueser]

I'm waiting on the new set of props from Donzi. I was hoping to get them Saturday but they didn't come. I'm hoping for today.

Yesterday I went out and really got on it in good step bottom conditions. I'm hitting the rev limiters now... I can hear it beeping at me.

I'm better at planing with this setup. Trim in, tabs full down. Throttle up to 3000 then immediately pull the tabs half way, throttle up to 4000, immediately pull the tabs all the way up then deal with the drive trim. That works in calm water. if it's rough, it's a crap shoot. Any kind of wave makes the props blow out.

Do rev limiters beep on the newer Mercs?

You are starting off with way too much RPM. I no longer have an issue getting on plane unless I am trying something different. I also don't use my Tabs to get on plane, they are set @ 1.5-2.0 at the most. Tabs seem to make things worse in my opinion. It took me almost all summer last year to get use to the stepped hull on my Scorpion.

I have the best luck with under 2000 rpm. rocking the boat side to side or in rough water I will turn almost in a circle. Once they hook up and the boat is out of the water it's fine. This process takes time!!!!

I do plan on getting a set of Bravo one's in the near future. But I will keep my Mirage Plus props for events.

This is a stepped hull issue that Formula/Fountain and others have.

[mrfixxall]

This is a stepped hull issue that Formula/Fountain and others have.

Yeppers!

let me know when yor ready to try the bravos and maximus props mike.

the bravo props made a huge differance on planeing and the maximus ? hands down th best prop for stepped hulls,we tryed a set of mirage + props on the formuls and the boatwouldnotplane out period:)

[Trueser]

This is a stepped hull issue that Formula/Fountain and others have.

Yeppers!

let me know when yor ready to try the bravos and maximus props mike.

the bravo props made a huge differance on planeing and the maximus ? hands down th best prop for stepped hulls,we tryed a set of mirage + props on the formuls and the boatwouldnotplane out period:)


Im ready what do you have? 26?

[mrfixxall]

Im ready what do you have? 26?
28p bravo 1's

26 maximus

let me know and ill get them for you to try!

[mrfixxall]

Props yet?:)

[VetteLT193]

Props yet?:)

Nope... I just wrote Donzi late this afternoon to see if they got sent out yet. I doubt it's high on their to do list, which I totally understand. Although, I do really want to try them and am anxiously waiting :wink:

[mrfixxall]

Nope... I just wrote Donzi late this afternoon to see if they got sent out yet. I doubt it's high on their to do list, which I totally understand. Although, I do really want to try them and am anxiously waiting :wink:


if they havnt sent them yet........from my calcularions you should have a st of 23 pitch maximun props,that should put you around 4800 rpms:)

make sure they send you the vent hole kit,differant size rubber inserts for prop slippage..

[VetteLT193]

Do rev limiters beep on the newer Mercs?

You are starting off with way too much RPM. I no longer have an issue getting on plane unless I am trying something different. I also don't use my Tabs to get on plane, they are set @ 1.5-2.0 at the most. Tabs seem to make things worse in my opinion. It took me almost all summer last year to get use to the stepped hull on my Scorpion.

I have the best luck with under 2000 rpm. rocking the boat side to side or in rough water I will turn almost in a circle. Once they hook up and the boat is out of the water it's fine. This process takes time!!!!

I do plan on getting a set of Bravo one's in the near future. But I will keep my Mirage Plus props for events.

This is a stepped hull issue that Formula/Fountain and others have.

I tried less RPM... Don't forget, with my 1.65 drives it's not moving very fast at 2000 RPM. I just plow. it seems once it starts to do a bow up plow it's much harder to get going and much easier to blow the props out. If I do the tabs down, 3000 RPM thing I get past the crappy point quick by pulling tabs up through the 'hump'. It's hard to explain, seat of the pants feel.

If I steer the boat I can blow out both props easily. I can blow out both props with little to no problem. Where I boat I don't have the option to steer around to get the boat on plane. I run out a tight and curvy channel loaded with boat traffic. I need to get up and stay up like a porn star. :shocking:

On a related note, the hardest part of driving the boat is speed. It does not like under 30 MPH. The boats around here are not that fast and in that tight channel it's difficult to navigate at times. The Minx I could drag tabs and run on plane at super slow speeds.... It doesn't seem possible with the ZXO... I get to a certain low end speed point and the props blow out again. The 'envelope' of speed starts much higher than any other boat I've run. Not complaining, just telling my experience so far with this current setup.

[mrfixxall]

I tried less RPM... Don't forget, with my 1.65 drives it's not moving very fast at 2000 RPM. I just plow. it seems once it starts to do a bow up plow it's much harder to get going and much easier to blow the props out. If I do the tabs down, 3000 RPM thing I get past the crappy point quick by pulling tabs up through the 'hump'. It's hard to explain, seat of the pants feel.
If I steer the boat I can blow out both props easily. I can blow out both props with little to no problem. Where I boat I don't have the option to steer around to get the boat on plane. I run out a tight and curvy channel loaded with boat traffic. I need to get up and stay up like a porn star. :shocking:
On a related note, the hardest part of driving the boat is speed. It does not like under 30 MPH. The boats around here are not that fast and in that tight channel it's difficult to navigate at times. The Minx I could drag tabs and run on plane at super slow speeds.... It doesn't seem possible with the ZXO... I get to a certain low end speed point and the props blow out again. The 'envelope' of speed starts much higher than any other boat I've run. Not complaining, just telling my experience so far with this current setup.


you will be able to cruise 22mph with those props!!! it will be night and day:):):)

[VetteLT193]

you will be able to cruise 22mph with those props!!! it will be night and day:):):)

that would be nice. I'll see if they sent them out yet. how do you calculate the 23's vs other sizes? Personally, from pure theory, I'd think 24's would be best but I haven't ever run the Max's before. Keep in mind, from seat of the pants feel driving the boat, the best top end would be a set of 25 inch 3 blade props @ 5100+ I'm thinking a drop to 24 Max's would net 4800-ish at a slower speed. But again, total guess not ever running them before.

[mrfixxall]

that would be nice. I'll see if they sent them out yet. how do you calculate the 23's vs other sizes? Personally, from pure theory, I'd think 24's would be best but I haven't ever run the Max's before. Keep in mind, from seat of the pants feel driving the boat, the best top end would be a set of 25 inch 3 blade props @ 5100+ I'm thinking a drop to 24 Max's would net 4800-ish at a slower speed. But again, total guess not ever running them before.

your going from a 3blade to a 5 blade that their should be approx 400 rpm loss now subtract another 100-200 on the blade diameter and that should give you a approx rpm..so if your running a 23 mirage + and your bouncing off the rev limiter 5200 rpms and your going to a 15x25 maximus prop,im going to say your going to turn them around 4300-4500 max rpms..if yo run the 23 maximux itshould put you at 4800-5000 rpms..

others will chine in im sure but that is my expierancewith the maximus props..

Also dont be scared you use your trim,you can trim the pis out of them:)

[mrfixxall]

did you get the props yet?

[VetteLT193]

did you get the props yet?

no, got in touch with Craig @ Donzi and he didn't send them yet. He's going to try to deliver them to me personally next weekend at the Pt. Canaveral to Sebastian Donzi run.

I didn't get a chance to go out this weekend anyway. I did manage to change the oil and do a few other odds and ends though.

[SilverBack]

Don't get discouraged yet!! I think that you are going to see that it is day and night between the two sets of props. I ran some of Grizz's TXP and OXP props on my boat. Most people think they are very good props and love them but on my ZX they would not really run at all. You could barley get on plane and the cruise sucked really bad and if you turned the prop blew out and you had to come off plane and try again. I had Mark Boos drive the boat and he had the same trouble. With the Maximus My cuise is great I jump straight up on plane and they are great in every way for me. I do agree with fix...you would be better with a 23P but ......... (hold your breath ...this is a touchy subject) The maximus is one of the most tunable props around. I ran a 32P box stock Maximus and I sent it back and bought a 34 Maximus and had it labbed up to a 35P. I can pull the 35 lab finished prop just as easily as I did the 32P stock prop. So...if a stock 23P wroks you could probobly pull a 26P lab finished prop. Plus the higher pitch prop will have a higher cruis speed. I can cuise at 2500 rpms at 47 MPH. 3500 is 66 MPH. 2000 is 34 MPH. It will stay on plane and cruise at lower rpm than that but I don't like to lug the engine.


I think that you are going to be happy in the end!!

[VetteLT193]

I'm sure it will work out, it's really no big deal right this second. Hopefully Craig will grab the factory boat and run with us next weekend. If not, it sounds like he'll pop into Capt. Hirams to drop the props off and I can at least run back from Sebastian to Pt. Canaveral with them. I'll just have to do an in water prop change. Gotta remember to pack a piece of wood. :bonk:

[mrfixxall]

Gotta remember to pack a piece of wood..

Dont need to! leave it in gear:)

[VetteLT193]

I thought I read somewhere, at some point, that it was 'bad' or 'not good' to shift a Bravo while not running. I've left the sticks alone while off so far for that reason but I can't put a source to it so who the heck knows.

[mrfixxall]

I thought I read somewhere, at some point, that it was 'bad' or 'not good' to shift a Bravo while not running. I've left the sticks alone while off so far for that reason but I can't put a source to it so who the heck knows.


True!! i shut the ignition off whyle its still in gear.

[VetteLT193]

I got a set of tester props from Donzi. I did not try them yet because they are truly Donzi test props.........

One of them seems labbed. The other does not. There is even a weight difference. Because our run was 50 miles each way, I didn't want to mess with it this past weekend. My question is, are they ok to test, even though not quite the same? Just concerned about straight safety.

[SilverBack]

I got a set of tester props from Donzi. I did not try them yet because they are truly Donzi test props.........

One of them seems labbed. The other does not. There is even a weight difference. Because our run was 50 miles each way, I didn't want to mess with it this past weekend. My question is, are they ok to test, even though not quite the same? Just concerned about straight safety.


Wow...what did they tell you that tell you again???:confused: Are they Maximus props? What pitch are they?

[VetteLT193]

Craig went back and didn't find the Max's he thought he had. So he pulled the test files for the 28 ZX hulls and according to the data he said 25" M+'s would work. Fine with me if they work, that is all I'm asking for... so he dropped off the props at my dad's house in Melbourne (over on the East coast of Florida) on Friday.

I had plenty of seat time this weekend and really got to look at the gauges while running full throttle. I'm well on the limiter with the 23's. 5300 - 5400. I can't trim the boat out past the first notch on the trim gauge. I get to the point where I can feel the hull just start to really break free of the water and poof... rev limiter.

I run the drives neutral 99% of the time. I can only get just past neutral trim with these props.

I am getting decent at planing. If memory serves correct I only blew out once this weekend. My trim, tabs, throttle, tabs, trim, tabs, throttle, tabs, trim method works pretty well. :shocking:


Another comparison, for numbers sake, 5000 RPM is right at 60 MPH

[mrfixxall]

I got a set of tester props from Donzi. I did not try them yet because they are truly Donzi test props.........
One of them seems labbed. The other does not. There is even a weight difference. Because our run was 50 miles each way, I didn't want to mess with it this past weekend. My question is, are they ok to test, even though not quite the same? Just concerned about straight safety.


What props did you end up with? test them!! by your self,no kids and wife for safety..they will just give you a idea which way to go from their:)

[VetteLT193]

What props did you end up with? test them!! by your self,no kids and wife for safety..they will just give you a idea which way to go from their:)

I wound up with a set of Donzi tester props, but they don't match. That's my only concern. They are both 25 M+'s, they have both seem to have been worked on. One has very thin blades (labbed I think). the other doesn't. The cup seems on the small side.

I'll try them next time out, see what happens. It won't be until the weekend after this one.

[mrfixxall]

I wound up with a set of Donzi tester props, but they don't match. That's my only concern. They are both 25 M+'s, they have both seem to have been worked on. One has very thin blades (labbed I think). the other doesn't. The cup seems on the small side.
I'll try them next time out, see what happens. It won't be until the weekend after this one.


Your boat will do the same a the 23's except you may loose 200 rpm..what happeed to te maximus props he said he was going to give you? i would pull yoursand ask him t swap them the the correct props and not a 3 blade. f he wont get you te maximus props see if ha has a set of bravo 26 for you to try.

[SilverBack]

Your boat will do the same a the 23's except you may loose 200 rpm..what happeed to te maximus props he said he was going to give you? i would pull yoursand ask him t swap them the the correct props and not a 3 blade. f he wont get you te maximus props see if ha has a set of bravo 26 for you to try.

I agree 100 percent!! That is not good business if that is what he said that he was going to do!!

[VetteLT193]

He said the Max's weren't back in the prop room like he thought. All the ones he had were too big.

200 RPM is a start. I'm way under-propped. I thought it was 200 RPM per inch of prop, not 100 RPM. If it's only a 200 RPM difference I might need 27" in the mirage plus variety. Or, I agree... Bravo 1's.

[Last Real Texan]

He said the Max's weren't back in the prop room like he thought. All the ones he had were too big.

200 RPM is a start. I'm way under-propped. I thought it was 200 RPM per inch of prop, not 100 RPM. If it's only a 200 RPM difference I might need 27" in the mirage plus variety. Or, I agree... Bravo 1's.
Get Griz to send you a pair of 24 inch Fusions 4 blade and try them...or get a set of Bravo I 24's....quit with the three blades... so you can handle at slow speeds and crusie nicely...give it up on the top to have all around performance for the Family....Now go have some fun!

Tex

[VetteLT193]

Get Griz to send you a pair of 24 inch Fusions 4 blade and try them...or get a set of Bravo I 24's....quit with the three blades... so you can handle at slow speeds and crusie nicely...give it up on the top to have all around performance for the Family....Now go have some fun!

Tex

I thought bravos measure different because of the size of the blades, so you need bigger size?

The only reason why I'm screwing with 3 blades is Donzi has the full run of them. And, if I can pin down the correct 3 blade at least I know something Vs. nothing. The only thing I know now is these 23's are too small. how much too small is the question.

[mrfixxall]

I thought bravos measure different because of the size of the blades, so you need bigger size?
The only reason why I'm screwing with 3 blades is Donzi has the full run of them. And, if I can pin down the correct 3 blade at least I know something Vs. nothing. The only thing I know now is these 23's are too small. how much too small is the question.


ok, we are dealing with stepped hulls here:),,im using a formulas as a example 1998 formula 311 sr1 with 454 efi 310-330- with a 1.65 drive ratio...i know its a little differant hull design but that all i have to compare it to..if truiser would ever meet up with me i 2 set of props that he can try so we can compare apples to apples!! we first started with brave 1 28 p props it planed rite away with the bravo 1 props and would hold the hull on plane to 28 mph then it would struggle keeping the stern up, max speed with the bravos was 67 mph @ 4800 rpm, then we went to a set of 25 p mirage + the boat was a pain to get on plane,,once on plane you could brake the props loose at any time between 32 and 40 mph once above 40 they were fine as long as you didnt use the tabs..max speed for the mirage 25s was 65 mph and close to 5k on the tachs..

Next we tryed 26p maximus props, eases into the throttles bam on pland with in 5 seconds and 2500 rpms doing 35 mph 3500 47 4400 64,,,,,,,1900 rpms 22 mph on plane..

[VetteLT193]

ok, we are dealing with stepped hulls here:),,im using a formulas as a example 1998 formula 311 sr1 with 454 efi 310-330- with a 1.65 drive ratio...i know its a little differant hull design but that all i have to compare it to..if truiser would ever meet up with me i 2 set of props that he can try so we can compare apples to apples!! we first started with brave 1 28 p props it planed rite away with the bravo 1 props and would hold the hull on plane to 28 mph then it would struggle keeping the stern up, max speed with the bravos was 67 mph @ 4800 rpm, then we went to a set of 25 p mirage + the boat was a pain to get on plane,,once on plane you could brake the props loose at any time between 32 and 40 mph once above 40 they were fine as long as you didnt use the tabs..max speed for the mirage 25s was 65 mph and close to 5k on the tachs..
Next we tryed 26p maximus props, eases into the throttles bam on pland with in 5 seconds and 2500 rpms doing 35 mph 3500 47 4400 64,,,,,,,1900 rpms 22 mph on plane..

I thought treuser has 1.5 ratios?? That's what the scorp boat came with.

Your experience is actually pretty close. I know my boat can go 69 MPH based on the GPS recall from before I bought it. So, as a baseline, I'm almost identical on props that 'should' work compared to your Formula experience.

I'll see how the 25 M+ do, then go from there. I'm not keeping these props, they are pretty junky. I'm actually surprised Craig dropped them off, but it is nice he is working with me, so I can't complain.

[Trueser]

Update on my Scorpion.

Ran Bravo 1 28 spinning inward.

4700 rpm 72mph 8mph loss
3000 rpm 50 mph 8 mph gain

Boat was rock solid.
Getting on plain was a snap. Even in 3-4 Lake Michigan waves.
Full tank of fuel.
I could stay on plain @ 2000 rpm
The drives did not like allot of trim, Maybe half way then it became a late model 22. I could never get it to propose with the mirage plus.
Chine walk was hard to find at all.

Thanks B-Blades for the demo props. Plan on trying the 26 when they come available.

Next test is to see how Mbeth likes them. this afternoon.

I would recommend you go to a 4 blade............ 24P like Jim said.

[The Hedgehog]

Imagine trying to spin a 5 blade:eek:

[SilverBack]

When you run a 5 blade you need to get your prop up close to the surface. If your dive is too deep they will be slower and try to stern lift too much.

[VetteLT193]

Update on my Scorpion.

Ran Bravo 1 28 spinning inward.

4700 rpm 72mph 8mph loss
3000 rpm 50 mph 8 mph gain

Boat was rock solid.
Getting on plain was a snap. Even in 3-4 Lake Michigan waves.
Full tank of fuel.
I could stay on plain @ 2000 rpm
The drives did not like allot of trim, Maybe half way then it became a late model 22. I could never get it to propose with the mirage plus.
Chine walk was hard to find at all.

Thanks B-Blades for the demo props. Plan on trying the 26 when they come available.

Next test is to see how Mbeth likes them. this afternoon.

I would recommend you go to a 4 blade............ 24P like Jim said.


You have 1.5 drives right?

My brother, before his accident, picked me up a set of 26 Bravo 1's. I'll test those whenever I get them

Maybe I haven't said it right, but I truly believe I am BEYOND under propped with the 23 M+'s. I can't trim it out at all. The boat runs with the bow in the water, maybe this is normal though?

I think I need 2 M+'s as a baseline. screw the 23's. They 'work' but are not right. at all.

[mrfixxall]

You have 1.5 drives right?
My brother, before his accident, picked me up a set of 26 Bravo 1's. I'll test those whenever I get them
Maybe I haven't said it right, but I truly believe I am BEYOND under propped with the 23 M+'s. I can't trim it out at all. The boat runs with the bow in the water, maybe this is normal though?
I think I need 2 M+'s as a baseline. screw the 23's. They 'work' but are not right. at all.

truser has 1.50,,so what happened to the maximus props???? craig dropped off 2 used props not matching ones at that and said he didnt have the rite ones or any others? So they threw on what ever they had to get you boating.. you spent 70 + grand and the boat runs way wet as i seen in your pics..

vette i would be all over craig!!!!!!!!!! its been what? over 3 weeks and your brother has to get you a set of bravos, man your patient,,,,i would be at donzi marine with craig pulling props off of new boats and tying them til i found the rite set..:)

[BUIZILLA]

what props did they run the 69 mph pre-delivery testing with?

[VetteLT193]

what props did they run the 69 mph pre-delivery testing with?

I have no idea. Craig went back and looked at all the test data from the 28 ZX line and he said 25 M+'s worked, so he gave me a tester set of those.

My brother got a good view of my boat the whole run and he said it runs pretty much the same at all speeds. I could blast by him running 60+ and it looked about like the picture above. I just can't trim it enough to get the bow in the air... and that could explain why the boat feels soooo much different than any other I've run. When I turn the wheel it moves the rear end around, not the whole boat like usual.

I'm usually pretty patient, Craig is trying... that's all I can ask for right now. He called me back a couple days ago to see how the prop testing went, and I told him I didn't bolt them on because they didn't match and I had a 100 mile trip. I don't think he wanted to throw another new set of props at me to find out that they don't work. I can't blame him for that, no one is going to buy a new boat and be ok with used props, so I think is goal is to get a prop pinned down then go from there on the exchange.

[The Hedgehog]

what props did they run the 69 mph pre-delivery testing with?

It definitely sounds like there is an issue with the props. Seat time will probably prove to be a factor on the higher speeds. I don't care how long you have been driving boats, they all have their own traits. Especially step hulls. Like most of us, I have been driving boats all of my life. I figured that I would have the ZX mastered in a couple of weekends. I am still learning a few things here and there on the top end after a year. Adding some planes did give me some more options though. I did some tuning on a big step hull with my friend John a couple of months ago. He has been driving performance boats for many years. It took him a couple of trips just to figure out some of the basics of that Skater.

None the less, I think that 69 is a perfect world scenario for that boat. It will require optimum conditions, perfect settings, low fuel and no passengers to hit it again. I would focus on handling. Some proper 4 blades and seat time should make this boat run low 60's on any day. It is a family boat after all.

[mrfixxall]

A: Aren't the 23's the stock prop they deliver the boat with? If so, they provided the props they sell them with, any other consideration by them is a bonus.
B: This ain't your Minx, the step hulls run pretty flat. As Truser has pointed out, there is a learning curve on these boats, maybe before you too wrapped up in testing different props, you should learn to maximize the speeds you can get consistently with the existing ones, then move on to trying to best that..

Poodle vette wrote:
I'm well on the limiter with the 23's. 5300 - 5400. I can't trim the boat out past the first notch on the trim gauge. I get to the point where I can feel the hull just start to really break free of the water and poof... rev limiter

i was thing when he pops a motor because donzi gave him the wrong props for his boat is merc going to honor the warranty when they plug the data logger in and see hes running 5400 rpm when the engine let go?

[The Hedgehog]

A: Aren't the 23's the stock prop they deliver the boat with? If so, they provided the props they sell them with, any other consideration by them is a bonus.
B: This ain't your Minx, the step hulls run pretty flat. As Truser has pointed out, there is a learning curve on these boats, maybe before you too wrapped up in testing different props, you should learn to maximize the speeds you can get consistently with the existing ones, then move on to trying to best that..

Yes sir, very flat if you are not used to them. My ZX runs flat as a pancake until 60+ and then will take more trim the faster you go. Even at 70 you can over trim in a hurry and it really starts to slip. I am not carrying NEAR as much weight up front. I would imagine that in a ZXO it does go from trying to carry the bow to bigtime blowout in a hurry.

[mrfixxall]

He stated negitive trim 5300-5400 rpms.. and i believe thats all the way in,truiser is running 5200 rpms with 1.50 drive ratios 25p mirage + labbed and a we bit more power,vettes boat is spinning 5300-5400 with 1.65 drive ratio 23 mirags + wih less power..I just saying after 3 weeks donzi should have stepped up to the plate by mow with a prop solution,even if they would offer a bblades prograhm,not heres your boat and 23 pitch props now go blow your motors kinda of a deal!!

[VetteLT193]

Most common cause of over-reving is over-trim..
One of the most common causes of over-trimming is not calibrating the trim gauge..
The more common cause is not knowing the hull..
As MANY have said, learn to drive it as is, work on improving it later.. The throttle stop is not just mechanical, it can and needs to be, mental also...

Gauges are fine by my standards. I can see where they are at on the trailer and compare them. I'll double check tonight to see where it is at exactly. I think I'm at neutral trim. I'll take a picture.

I can consistently drive the boat the same way and hit the same top speed at the same trim angle. It's not really rocket science because the current trim window is so narrow. I can trim it in and lose a couple MPH. For a slower RPM comparo, at 5000 RPM it runs right at 60 MPH at the best trim angle I can find.

The boat had a 69 MPH top speed saved when I bought it. Not sure if that is the way the GPS speedos are shipped or not, but I assume that it was not shipped like that and 69 was the actual top speed.

The 23" props were brand new in the boxes obviously pulled out of storage somewhere at the factory based on the layers of dust on them.

As far as planing goes I have a process that works in calm water. If it's rough, not so much. I can even blow the props out while moving if I go over wakes or turn and am not running 38+ MPH. There is also zero difference between fully loaded or running light. I can hit the same top speed packed with people on board as I can with 2 people on board.

Truesur, even though a scorp boat, runs 25 M+ with 1.5 drives. I know I'm short some HP but that's a huge difference.

I've also done a bunch of my own searching. It looks like stock prop size is in fact 23" M+, but on 1.5 drives and 350 MPI's.

As far as weight, everything I've seen lists the ZX and ZXO at either the same weight, or the ZX at +50 lbs.

I am very happy with the boat. Donzi is doing what they can to help me. My brother got a great deal on a set of B1's so I couldn't turn them down as even a backup set.

[VetteLT193]

He stated negitive trim 5300-5400 rpms.. and i believe thats all the way in,truiser is running 5200 rpms with 1.50 drive ratios 25p mirage + labbed and a we bit more power,vettes boat is spinning 5300-5400 with 1.65 drive ratio 23 mirags + wih less power..I just saying after 3 weeks donzi should have stepped up to the plate by mow with a prop solution,even if they would offer a bblades prograhm,not heres your boat and 23 pitch props now go blow your motors kinda of a deal!!

It's partially my fault too because I can't take the boat out every day. The ball is in my court right now to test the props... I'll get to it next weekend and report back.

[mrfixxall]

It's partially my fault too because I can't take the boat out every day. The ball is in my court right now to test the props... I'll get to it next weekend and report back.


cool bro:wink:

[VetteLT193]

here are pictures of my trim angles.

The first is my max trim at WOT.
The 2nd is my cruise trim angle.

[Trueser]

The Zx runs flat/flat/flat/flat.

Even flatter with the bravo 1's.

After one year I can finnaly run the boat at 80 without chine walk.

4 blades on my boat did not like trim at all.

I will most likely run the 25+ Labbed but I will buy a set of 4 blades. I may try to spin the 4 blades out and see how it likes trim.

The boat runs better with the mirage at this point. The only downfall would be getting on plane.

[mrfixxall]

The Zx runs flat/flat/flat/flat.

Even flatter with the bravo 1's.

After one year I can finnaly run the boat at 80 without chine walk.

4 blades on my boat did not like trim at all.

I will most likely run the 25+ Labbed but I will buy a set of 4 blades. I may try to spin the 4 blades out and see how it likes trim.

The boat runs better with the mirage at this point. The only downfall would be getting on plane.


Sounds like the next prop you would want to try is the revolution 4 to get more lift:)

[VetteLT193]

The Zx runs flat/flat/flat/flat.

Even flatter with the bravo 1's.

After one year I can finnaly run the boat at 80 without chine walk.

4 blades on my boat did not like trim at all.

I will most likely run the 25+ Labbed but I will buy a set of 4 blades. I may try to spin the 4 blades out and see how it likes trim.

The boat runs better with the mirage at this point. The only downfall would be getting on plane.

Where are you at trim wise, are they tucked in a little at cruise like mine are?

I'd think neutral trim would be most efficient but I lose speed above where the pictures are.

[Trueser]

Bravo 1's I can go around 3-4 at the most.

Mirage + I can go to nine.

[Ghost]

Where are you at trim wise, are they tucked in a little at cruise like mine are?

I'd think neutral trim would be most efficient but I lose speed above where the pictures are.

Wow, is that for real? I'm used to non-stepped hulls that want trim at speed about as high up as possible. So stepped hulls actually want to trim way way down like that?

I would think that for max efficiency, at least as far as the prop is concerned, the line of travel of the prop should be parallel to the water's surface. Is that right? And if so, does that mean the ZX rides so flat (or even bow down) that the drive must be trimmed way down like the pics to achieve a prop path that is parallel to the surface?

I guess with a non-stepped hull, you're trying to get the wetted surface minimized, and that means bow up as much as you can take and be stable. Versus the step which can keep the wetted surface down when flat.

Seems so weird compared to what I'm used to....I gotta think about this...

[VetteLT193]

Bravo 1's I can go around 3-4 at the most.

Mirage + I can go to nine.


Isn't 9 all the way out???

What number is neutral for you? I consider neutral where the cavitation plate is at the same angle as the bottom of the hull.

[The Hedgehog]

Wow, is that for real? I'm used to non-stepped hulls that want trim at speed about as high up as possible. So stepped hulls actually want to trim way way down like that?

I would think that for max efficiency, at least as far as the prop is concerned, the line of travel of the prop should be parallel to the water's surface. Is that right? And if so, does that mean the ZX rides so flat (or even bow down) that the drive must be trimmed way down like the pics to achieve a prop path that is parallel to the surface?

I guess with a non-stepped hull, you're trying to get the wetted surface minimized, and that means bow up as much as you can take and be stable. Versus the step which can keep the wetted surface down when flat.

Seems so weird compared to what I'm used to....I gotta think about this...

It is different. You run flat to a point then some take trim and some don't

[Trueser]

9 is all the way out.

0 is all the way tucked,

Neutural is 1-2

28 zx is like riding on an elevator.....

I have checked the travel and re-adjusted all the indicators.

[BigGrizzly]

Let ne step in here for a moment. I just noticed the tabs on the back. are they all the way up? If they are they are too low. I know this is not a 22ZX but my Son's tabs looked that way and I modified them and he got a good 2-3 mph on the gps with a better handling too. When you see his run it runs higher then any other 22ZX I have seen. Just a though, As you know tabs have a great influence on step hulls.

[The Hedgehog]

Let ne step in here for a moment. I just noticed the tabs on the back. are they all the way up? If they are they are too low. I know this is not a 22ZX but my Son's tabs looked that way and I modified them and he got a good 2-3 mph on the gps with a better handling too. When you see his run it runs higher then any other 22ZX I have seen. Just a though, As you know tabs have a great influence on step hulls.

Mine were a problem in the 26ZX too.

[VetteLT193]

Yes, tabs are all the way up. It has that thing that puts them up when the starboard engine is shut down.

They are mounted up off of the surface of the bottom at least.

I assume you just did the change to the trim stops? I can do that, no big deal.

[Ghost]

Yes, tabs are all the way up. It has that thing that puts them up when the starboard engine is shut down.

I like the sound of that--forklift protection. (Unless there is some other reason I;m not yet thinking of.)

[BUIZILLA]

are all 28's this hard to play with? :bonk:

boy, this would piss me off :frown:

[G-MAN]

are all 28's this hard to play with? :bonk:

boy, this would piss me off :frown:
No they are not the only time I have blow out is if I forget to drop the drives down when I stop and try and take off agin.
I havent went thru is whole thread but are we starting with the drives all the way down and the tabs must be all the way up any tab at all on take off will cause blow out. I only had this boat a year but I have 80 hours of seat time and I think I learned alot about how to drive this hull.
My boat is a blast to drive and handles great! It's a great time to take it out in the rough stuff at LOTO and play .

[BigGrizzly]

Vette, I did play with the internal stops and cut them down. I even made a couple of tools for the purpose, one went to Miami to stay and from what I here is used frequently. Now if you have internal trim indicators you will have to call Bennett, they have modified ones. If not it can be done in about 1//2 hour with a minimum of fluid loss. You were laughing too much in the keys when Eddie and I went through it, come to think of it you got me going to and I never finished it. Oh well, I think there is a thread or tech article in it.

[FISHIN SUCKS]

No they are not the only time I have blow out is if I forget to drop the drives down when I stop and try and take off agin.
I havent went thru is whole thread but are we starting with the drives all the way down and the tabs must be all the way up any tab at all on take off will cause blow out.
I am the same exact way for driving. With my twin 350 mags, 1.5 drives, spinning outward. Now the wierd part after playing quite a bit the last two weeks out in Lake Erie, WOT, Port tach is readin 5000, Stbd at 4800, the port prop is a Mirage, the stbd is a Mirage Plus, both 23P. I don't know the difference (feel free to educate here), but in 1-2' chop, 25+/- gallons fuel, two adults two kids, handheld gps read 69.7, trim up at 7, K-planes at 2. With a little tweakin' and load-ditchin, 70 is a reality.

[VetteLT193]

I am the same exact way for driving. With my twin 350 mags, 1.5 drives, spinning outward. Now the wierd part after playing quite a bit the last two weeks out in Lake Erie, WOT, Port tach is readin 5000, Stbd at 4800, the port prop is a Mirage, the stbd is a Mirage Plus, both 23P. I don't know the difference (feel free to educate here), but in 1-2' chop, 25+/- gallons fuel, two adults two kids, handheld gps read 69.7, trim up at 7, K-planes at 2. With a little tweakin' and load-ditchin, 70 is a reality.

Mirage plus has cup in it. it's like adding an inch of pitch, so your RPM difference makes perfect sense.

[VetteLT193]

Vette, I did play with the internal stops and cut them down. I even made a couple of tools for the purpose, one went to Miami to stay and from what I here is used frequently. Now if you have internal trim indicators you will have to call Bennett, they have modified ones. If not it can be done in about 1//2 hour with a minimum of fluid loss. You were laughing too much in the keys when Eddie and I went through it, come to think of it you got me going to and I never finished it. Oh well, I think there is a thread or tech article in it.

Sorry to have cut you off :bonk: always having a good time. But you are always right there with us smiling from ear to ear!!!!


I don't have the indicators so it should be easy. I'm going to have to wait a while to do it though... Because if I start taking anything apart on this boat my wife will kill me.

[FISHIN SUCKS]

Mirage plus has cup in it. it's like adding an inch of pitch, so your RPM difference makes perfect sense.
Thank you......I stand educated:yes: So do I now get a Mirage plus or a Mirage to match:confused:? Pardon the thread hijack, just tryin to help while tryin to help:confused:

[The Hedgehog]

Thank you......I stand educated:yes: So do I now get a Mirage plus or a Mirage to match:confused:? Pardon the thread hijack, just tryin to help while tryin to help:confused:

The cup helps it carry the bow better. I would think you want a M+

[Trueser]

Thank you......I stand educated:yes: So do I now get a Mirage plus or a Mirage to match:confused:? Pardon the thread hijack, just tryin to help while tryin to help:confused:

Wow Sally, are you sure on the regular Mirage. You are a real big deal!

I may have a spare for you, The correct one.

4800 should be good.

Z-man do you run higher RPM'S? and by the way you should have a package in the morning.

[FISHIN SUCKS]

Wow Sally, are you sure on the regular Mirage. You are a real big deal!

I may have a spare for you, The correct one.

4800 should be good.
What I have is the Mirage on Port, Mirage Plus on Starboard. Many pardons on the hijack.

Yeah, I'm a big deal, Mr. Big Deal:kingme:!!!

[VetteLT193]

What I have is the Mirage on Port, Mirage Plus on Starboard. Many pardons on the hijack.
Yeah, I'm a big deal, Mr. Big Deal:kingme:!!!

It's all good, it's an All-in-one 28 ZX prop-a-thon now :wink:

Your numbers mean the most so far because it's a normal (non-scorpion) to really compare to. It's pretty solid data as far as speed / props / drives go.

I'll have fun, hopefully this weekend, testing the 25 M+'s and 26 Bravo 1's. You have also taken my fear away of running two different props :wink:

[BUIZILLA]

both the M and M+ are cupped.... just a little more on the trailing side of the +

[FISHIN SUCKS]

You know what's interesting too, when leaving the hole and getting up on plane, the Port motor (Mirage) winds out much quicker than the Stbd (Mirage+), this may be why, considering it runs 200 RPM's higher than the Stbd motor.

[VetteLT193]

Ok... finally got back out in the boat. We went to a new location, fresh water river, that I haven't been to before.

Our friends that took us hit a log, so our testing was very short.

I only tried the 26 Bravo 1's...

Planing is stupid easy. forget the tabs all together, they don't matter up or down. trim doesn't even have to be down. it's fine all the way in, at neutral or even out a click or two.

It can stay on plane at 22 MPH. previously it really didn't like anything less than 30.

Cruise jumped way up. 40+ at 3200. 4000 is about 55 MPH

Top end was only 62 @ 4800. Although, the conditions were not that good... the river is pretty curvy so I only let it go for a few seconds. I didn't really get to find the 'right' trim etc. My honest guess is I'll be back at 65 with these props out where I normally boat.

At all RPM's I'm at what I call normal trim. trimmed out instead of in.

There is really no down side to these props Vs. the 23 M+'s

[BigGrizzly]

I saw this coming, Even with the 22ZX it happens like that.

[The Hedgehog]

I saw this coming, Even with the 22ZX it happens like that.

Yep.

Also, those last few mph can come slow with a step hull boat. They don't hit a wall like a standard v. They accelerate pretty good to a point and then just creep up as you let it cook.

[VetteLT193]

That's good news then. We'll see what it does when I can actually go out in open space and run it.

I can't wait to go out and test more. It is also great to no dread getting the boat on plane. It's a pleasure now :yes:

[RedDog]

... It is also great to no dread getting the boat on plane. It's a pleasure now :yes:

Great news - after all boating is supposed to be fun!

[BigGrizzly]

Vette, now this is almost over learn to drive it then and only then search for the optimum props. Enjoy this thing, you spent the money now it is time to do the enjoy and learning curve thing. Its all good from here. I am working on some new stuff that may prove to be another option but later. If the bravo works then use it. It may be just what the doctor ordered.

[The Hedgehog]

Vette, now this is almost over learn to drive it then and only then search for the optimum props. Enjoy this thing, you spent the money now it is time to do the enjoy and learning curve thing. Its all good from here. I am working on some new stuff that may prove to be another option but later. If the bravo works then use it. It may be just what the doctor ordered.

That's exactly what I did with the 26. I just stuck on a prop that would work and spent my time learning how to drive it. After I did all of that work on it, it did not drive like the same boat. After about a season I was really ready to dial it in.

[VetteLT193]

Vette, now this is almost over learn to drive it then and only then search for the optimum props. Enjoy this thing, you spent the money now it is time to do the enjoy and learning curve thing. Its all good from here. I am working on some new stuff that may prove to be another option but later. If the bravo works then use it. It may be just what the doctor ordered.

Sounds like a good plan to me. :yes:

[BigGrizzly]

After seeing your wife do al the hard work at Cumberland she deserves the fun and enjoyment with the family. She is definitely a keeper.

[FISHIN SUCKS]

That's exactly what I did with the 26. I just stuck on a prop that would work and spent my time learning how to drive it. After I did all of that work on it, it did not drive like the same boat. After about a season I was really ready to dial it in.
Here here!!! totally agreed:yes:! Get out and enjoy that beautiful boat and in due time you will master it:drive:. I would say you have been put on the 'fasttrack' of learning this boat.....and now that she's handling altogether different than when you first got it, you will have a lot of fun from here on out......my crystal ball says so:kingme:!

[Trueser]

Ok... finally got back out in the boat. We went to a new location, fresh water river, that I haven't been to before.

Our friends that took us hit a log, so our testing was very short.

I only tried the 26 Bravo 1's...

Planing is stupid easy. forget the tabs all together, they don't matter up or down. trim doesn't even have to be down. it's fine all the way in, at neutral or even out a click or two.

It can stay on plane at 22 MPH. previously it really didn't like anything less than 30.

Cruise jumped way up. 40+ at 3200. 4000 is about 55 MPH

Top end was only 62 @ 4800. Although, the conditions were not that good... the river is pretty curvy so I only let it go for a few seconds. I didn't really get to find the 'right' trim etc. My honest guess is I'll be back at 65 with these props out where I normally boat.

At all RPM's I'm at what I call normal trim. trimmed out instead of in.

There is really no down side to these props Vs. the 23 M+'s


How was the trim on the 4 blades? I noticed that they didnt like trim on mine.

[VetteLT193]

How was the trim on the 4 blades? I noticed that they didnt like trim on mine.

It seemed to be 'normal' for me. Meaning, I could actually trim it out like a normal boat Vs. the 23 M+'s that I had to leave tucked in. When I opened it up I was able to trim it all the way out to the trim stops (they are set low right now though). I'm not sure where the optimum trim angle is on these props yet. Trimming didn't blow the props out or raise the rpm so it could be lower like you describe. At cruise the optimum trim angle was a bump or two out from neutral.

I didn't get much seat time and this past weekend I couldn't get out because we had thunderstorms so I'm waiting to get back out next weekend for some more time behind the wheel. I can't wait!!!

[VetteLT193]

Here is an update to an old thread. Another 28 owner with 6.2's popped up and asked me about props so this is just for information purposes.

I tried 25 Mirage+ and it's definitely what 'should' have shipped with the boat. I hit 69MPH with a full tank of fuel, full tank of water, and 4 people in the boat on flat water... I hit it with ease on a short run so there is more speed left in it. plus, I am loaded out with gear... coolers, snacks, towels, umbrella, two anchors, 12 lifejackets, spare tools, parts, oil, cleaning supplies (time to clean out the boat) I'm guessing I can max out pretty easily in the low 70's in the right conditions (chop) and in an open area.

Planing with the 25's is fine. I can blow it out, but as long as I'm gentle it is ok (not great, ok). They air out easier in the rough water than the Bravos.

Trim on the 25's at top end is slightly out from neutral. Cruising it seemed to like neutral to just out from neutral depending on speed.

The 26 Bravos I can get 65 MPH out of pretty easily. Overall, the 26's are a faster actual use prop... even though they are slower top end they are faster to plane, easier to drive, faster cruising, and stay connected very well through the rough. The attitude of the boat is far easier to control with the Bravos as well making for a safer rough ride at speed.