Deck is off

[Just Say N20]

Glad I bought the book gcarter recommended.
I'm going to need it.
All 4 of the gussets (?) have broken free, and look like they had been repaired at some point. I have not checked the wood in the stringers, for fear of what I'm going to find. :eek:

[Planetwarmer]

Now you've done it!

[rustnrot]

The stringers will almost certainly be shot. Replace the entire length even if some parts seem ok. At least you do not have a rotten balsa cored bottom to remove like I did in the Cobalt GT500.

[axelkloehn]

Just check my thread:

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=58170

and you'll see how it looks like under the fiberglass.
Does Gcarter get money for every book we buy?
I bought it too and it might help me a lot, but my GT21 built in late 60's doesnot even look as bad as yours. All stringers look good, no cracks or repairs, just the transom was gone...

stay with your project, Axel :germany:

[gcarter]

Just check my thread:

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=58170

and you'll see how it looks like under the fiberglass.
Does Gcarter get money for every book we buy?
I bought it too and it might help me a lot, but my GT21 built in late 60's doesnot even look as bad as yours. All stringers look good, no cracks or repairs, just the transom was gone...

stay with your project, Axel :germany:
Axel, the reason I asked about the stringer spacing on your GT is that they looked a little wide.....and if you choose to go with a traditional outdrive, you'll need to replace your stringers, pending measurinjg the distance between them.
Take a look at this thread and see what I mean;
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=58107

The stringers normally sit on top of the inner strakes on the bottom of the hull.

[axelkloehn]

Axel, the reason I asked about the stringer spacing on your GT is that they looked a little wide.....and if you choose to go with a traditional outdrive, you'll need to replace your stringers, pending measurinjg the distance between them.
Take a look at this thread and see what I mean;
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=58107

The stringers normally sit on top of the inner strakes on the bottom of the hull.


I definitely have more than 28.5". If you check from behind you can see where the wooden transom and the longitudinal stringers are...just have a look at the picture.
And I checked with pix from other GT21s, stringer spacing looks the same as mine. Guess it is like it is and not especially for a jetdrive (hope so, please not more problems :bonk:)

yours, Axel :germany:

[Sweet Cheekz]

Bill
Looks familiar to me! Take those all out and start over. It mostly just time and you have some so do it right. If you need help give me a shout I also have all kinds of leftovers so maybe I might have some things you need Good luck
Parnell

[Speed Racer]

Oh the memories!!!!!!

I am glad that my hull was not the only one with crappy glass work. You certainly can tell that these boats were popped out in a hurry. Not so beautiful..

But the good news is.. YOU now have a chance to make it better than new!!!
It brings back great and not so great memories, as I look at the shots...

Chin up!! Checkbook out, get a fridge full of beer in the garage, and get to it! Next summer you will be smiling from ear to ear!

Oh yea, one more thing.. Who the hell paints a Holley Carb?!

PM me if you want to hear my stringer story...

GG
(Still have not tested the killer 4 blade prop!- this weekend weather and work permitting)

[Just Say N20]

Oh the memories!!!!!!
Oh yea, one more thing.. Who the hell paints a Holley Carb?!

(Still have not tested the killer 4 blade prop!- this weekend weather and work permitting)

Many people have remarked about the painted carb. Not sure how that came about.

At least I have the BigGrizz super special Solas prop sitting in the box in my garage, just waiting to do its stuff whenever the boat is done.

Parnell, I'm thinking I will be calling you for some help. :wink:

Bill

[Sweet Cheekz]

Anytime Bill

[Just Say N20]

Anyone want to walk me through removing a Volvo 290 outdrive with trim?

I had hoped to get the engine pulled tonight, with the deck off, hoping I didn't have to pull the outdrive. Not sure how the power trim complicates that removal.

Looks like some custom engine mounts were fabricated, as I have never seen anything like this. Yikes on the clearance of the fuel pump/stringer.

The also mounted the bracket to tension the alternator on the stringer. It worked.

I removed the bolts from both front engine mounts, and 6 bolts (all I could find) from the bell housing, thinking I could slide the engine forward off the splined shaft from the outdrive. Not so much.

I have been a fresh water boater my entire life. I have never seen anything like this, ever. I didn't know things could get so rusted. I don't like the look of the oil pan either.

[mattyboy]

yeah I am sure they had to make some brackets as the original motor was a ford and didn't need all the pumps and pulleys shoe horned is a term that seems to fit wish i could tell ya never really fooled with the 290


my boat did not have any gussets near the motor i would be surprised if they were factory most likely added later and that boat was one off mine

[MOP]

Home made but very sturdy, nothing wrong with the tensioner on the stringer the way it is set up it is one unit! That is probably as good as race mounts.

[mattyboy]

you're also gonna want to support the nose with a milk crate or a spare tire or two. that deck has no coring so it is just glass and it will droop over time and lead to cracks don't prop it up either just lightly support it like a head on a pillow

[Just Say N20]

Home make but very sturdy, nothing wrong with the tensioner on the stringer the way it is set up it is one unit! That is probably as good as race mounts.

I'm hoping they are salvageable. I won't have any idea until I get them cleaned up. Although, they don't look like they would be hard to reproduce.

[MDonziM]

Bill,

First of all, it warms my heart that you are restoring her... it was supposed to have been done 2 owners ago but abandoned. Having just finished gutting and replacing the stringers, gussets etc in my 94, I cant imagine 67 vintage being worth anything.

Good luck, and I promise to send some of the old documentation soon.

Marshall

[Just Say N20]

you're also gonna want to support the nose with a milk crate or a spare tire or two. that deck has no coring so it is just glass and it will droop over time and lead to cracks don't prop it up either just lightly support it like a head on a pillow

Thanks. It is "resting its head" on a bucket, which seems to be just about the right height, not too low, and not too high. Goldilocks would like it. :yes:

[Just Say N20]

Bill,

First of all, it warms my heart that you are restoring her... it was supposed to have been done 2 owners ago but abandoned. Having just finished gutting and replacing the stringers, gussets etc in my 94, I cant imagine 67 vintage being worth anything.

Good luck, and I promise to send some of the old documentation soon.

Marshall

Thanks for the kind words, Marshall. That kind of encouragement is appreciated. When it is done, it will be all good. Maybe not done with the perfection of some on the board (Daughter is starting at University of Michigan in the fall, so the budget is restricted), but I will get it cleaned up, then rebuilt solidly, back to what will amount to probably better than new.

My goal is to make it a solid, good performing vintage 16, without doing the diamond plate in the engine compartment type of stuff. I love that type of thing, with all the stainless braid hose, etc. much like Parnell has done with Sweet Cheekz, but it is beyond me for right now.

[robertbj]

Glad I bought the book gcarter recommended.
I'm going to need it.
All 4 of the gussets (?) have broken free, and look like they had been repaired at some point. I have not checked the wood in the stringers, for fear of what I'm going to find. :eek:

I would like to see a 16 hull with the deck off. I run through G.R. quite often and could stop by if that would be OK. I have a what I think is a 1966 that may need to be undecked some day.

A shot of my project.

[Just Say N20]

I would like to see a 16 hull with the deck off. I run through G.R. quite often and could stop by if that would be OK. I have a what I think is a 1966 that may need to be undecked some day.

A shot of my project.

No problem. PM me and we can set something up. Your boat looks great. Still has the foam on the hull sides. My engine has closed loop cooling, and I'm telling you, getting the engine in/out with the deck off has to be 100X easier. That hatch opening is small!

[Tony]

Robert, welcome to the board...it is always great to hear from Donzi owners from the Great Lake State.
Tell us more (w/ pics of course!) about your project. If you already have the engine out you may as well un-deck and do the fuel tank, unless it has already been done. Absent the Hull ID# some pics of your boat, specifically the deck, dash, and interior, would help us pinpoint the year.

:beer:

[MOP]

I'm hoping they are salvageable. I won't have any idea until I get them cleaned up. Although, they don't look like they would be hard to reproduce.

If you have an automotive electric shop close by they can throw them in pellet tumbler, I take all my stuff to a buddy that has one it does a much nicer job then any type of blasting media.

[robertbj]

Robert, welcome to the board...it is always great to hear from Donzi owners from the Great Lake State.
Tell us more (w/ pics of course!) about your project. If you already have the engine out you may as well un-deck and do the fuel tank, unless it has already been done. Absent the Hull ID# some pics of your boat, specifically the deck, dash, and interior, would help us pinpoint the year.

:beer:

Thanks for the warm welcome. I have owned this boat since 1979 and have never looked into the history of it much, just had fun with it, abused it a little, sank it once in 30ft of water, fixed it up and had more fun. Now I am thinking of maybe restoring it a bit and putting around in it on sunny summer days, kind of like putting a horse out to pasture.
When I bought the boat it had a manufactured date of 1970 on the registration. A boat dealer told me that it was older than a 1970, and I had noticed that on the back side of the dash board, under a layer of glass, was a name, a date, and some other numbers. The date was 1966, and the manufactured date on the fuel tank was also 1966. I will get some photos together and post them. Maybe some of you can help confirm my hunch that I have a 1966 Ski Sporter.

P.S. Is there really a Red Boat Club?

[Just Say N20]

Thanks for the warm welcome. I have owned this boat since 1979 and have never looked into the history of it much, just had fun with it, abused it a little, sank it once in 30ft of water, fixed it up and had more fun. Now I am thinking of maybe restoring it a bit and putting around in it on sunny summer days, kind of like putting a horse out to pasture.

When I bought the boat it had a manufactured date of 1970 on the registration. A boat dealer told me that it was older than a 1970, and I had noticed that on the back side of the dash board, under a layer of glass, was a name, a date, and some other numbers. The date was 1966, and the manufactured date on the fuel tank was also 1966. I will get some photos together and post them. Maybe some of you can help confirm my hunch that I have a 1966 Ski Sporter.


Bring on the pictures! My hull is C16-409, which is generally believed to be a 1967.

[jl1962]

Thanks for the warm welcome. I have owned this boat since 1979 and have never looked into the history of it much, just had fun with it, abused it a little, sank it once in 30ft of water, fixed it up and had more fun. Now I am thinking of maybe restoring it a bit and putting around in it on sunny summer days, kind of like putting a horse out to pasture.
When I bought the boat it had a manufactured date of 1970 on the registration. A boat dealer told me that it was older than a 1970, and I had noticed that on the back side of the dash board, under a layer of glass, was a name, a date, and some other numbers. The date was 1966, and the manufactured date on the fuel tank was also 1966. I will get some photos together and post them. Maybe some of you can help confirm my hunch that I have a 1966 Ski Sporter.

P.S. Is there really a Red Boat Club?

Red Boat Club????? Why of course!!
:wink:

Welcome to the Board. Those numbers under the dash are important. Post them and some pictures too!

Jay

[robertbj]

Red Boat Club????? Why of course!!
:wink:

Welcome to the Board. Those numbers under the dash are important. Post them and some pictures too!

Jay

Here are some shots I took the other night. I will move the wires and get a better shot behind the dash. The metallic chrome emblem above the rear stickers must be rare; I haven’t seen them yet on another boat. The through the floor manual fuel gauge isn't something you see every day either. I'll get more pic's tonight.
Bob

[Just Say N20]

They are out there. The decals on mine were replaced at some point, so they aren't "period correct."

Hull 346 seems right for 1966.

[jl1962]

Yup - looks right. I have 16-420 which was built in spring of '67. Script logo, two vents, sight glass for fuel gauge, US/UK Flags all consistent w/ early boats. My driver's seat not original. Does your boat have a slotted spoke steering wheel?

[robertbj]

No, I got the one with the round circles cut-out. I also don't have the vent behind the rear lift ring. It's in the back of the tub behind the cooler hatch where the girl’s feet usually are. Keeps them warm on the way home after the sun go's down.

[cutwater]

I also don't have the vent behind the rear lift ring. It's in the back of the tub behind the cooler hatch where the girl’s feet usually are.

!! Hull 346 with only the floor vent?? Guys, doesn't this go against what we know about the progression of Ski Sporters?


Yup - looks right. I have 16-420 which was built in spring of '67. Script logo, two vents, sight glass for fuel gauge, US/UK Flags all consistent w/ early boats. My driver's seat not original. Does your boat have a slotted spoke steering wheel?

So nice. I hope mine looks as good as that one day! :wink:

[Just Say N20]

!! Hull 346 with only the floor vent?? Guys, doesn't this go against what we know about the progression of Ski Sporters?


Mine is C16-409, and it doesn't have the vent on the transom.

Mine also has a different hatch latch setup, with only one latch in the center, not one on each forward corner like Jay's.

[robertbj]

!! Hull 346 with only the floor vent?? Guys, doesn't this go against what we know about the progression of Ski Sporters?



So nice. I hope mine looks as good as that one day! :wink:

I have the 2 vents on top also, but they both face forward. The floor vent is the engine compartment exhaust. Nice and warm. And if somthing gets too hot, you smell it right away.

[Tony]

P.S. Is there really a Red Boat Club?

A few years back we had about a dozen Donzis on Torch Lake, and probably 9 of them were red. I think Texas Todd Somerville coined the phrase...

You have a 1966 Ski Sporter. Jay Lurie's 1967 16-420 serial number, verified by local Ski Sporter historian Matty Veth whose serial number was only a few away from it, should prove it. The vent under the rear lifting ring was cosmetic only.

If your tank is original, you are living on borrowed time...especially if the boat was submerged. Easy for me to suggest you pop the deck and replace the tank, but with the engine already out it may be a prudent preventative replacement.

:beer:

[cutwater]

Mine also has a different hatch latch setup, with only one latch in the center, not one on each forward corner like Jay's.

I have that latch setup as well!


I have the 2 vents on top also, but they both face forward. The floor vent is the engine compartment exhaust. Nice and warm. And if somthing gets too hot, you smell it right away.

I think I was confused... that should be correct for the later ones. The vents near the rear lifting eye were omitted once deck vents were added I think... I'll have to check.

[jl1962]

Single latch for engine hatch is correct. Not sure when mine was changed.

However, we are definitely constructing a time line for production numbers. Bobby D's '70 Ski Sporter is hull 600. Hopefully we'll get one for the red/blue '69 on another thread soon.

[robertbj]

Got some photos. From the sound of it, the numbers above the date behind the dash must be the hull #. The fuel tank was repaired back in the mid 90's, and I am sorry to say I did it with the deck on. :bonk:The full boat shot on the trailer was taken back in the mid 80's. Anyone got the floor vent to the engine compartment like mine?

[Just Say N20]

Very, very nice. In great shape.

How did you replace the tank without taking the deck off? Sounds like David Copperfield stuff to me.

Mine has the same vent in the same spot. I also have the two clam shell vents on the forward part over the engine, however currently one is aiming forward, and one is aiming backwards. I wonder if it would push more air into the engine compartment if they both were facing forwards?

Good documentation with the hull number and build date.

[mattyboy]

Mine has the same vent in the same spot. I also have the two clam shell vents on the forward part over the engine, however currently one is aiming forward, and one is aiming backwards. I wonder if it would push more air into the engine compartment if they both were facing forwards?


think about that??????????????????????????????????
they did one forward and one backward for a reason

well maybe 2

with no exit as in a rear lovre vent by the lift ring where will all that air being forced into the bilge from the 2 forward facing clam shells and the seat vent GO ????

and with both of the clam shell vents facing fwd I am sure the passengers will love having the fumes from the bilge blower blowing in their face

:rolleyes:

seat vent rear louvre vent good

floor vent no rear louvre 2 clamshell vents one back one fwd better

4 clam shell 2 fwd 2 back best

[Just Say N20]

I was thinking of the statement robertbj said about the vent on the forward facing surface of the rear seat (floor vent?) keeping his kids feet warm. I glossed over this the first time, and then started thinking about it.

It would suggest, that for it to work like a heater, there would have to be a lot of warm air coming out of that vent. I also remembered driving around my pickup truck, and looking in the back when going along at any speed over about 30 mph, and seeing things (leaves, empty cans) "floating" around in the box, and how things would accumulate right behind the cab, not at the tailgate.

This lead me to believe that in both the case of the cockpit of the boat, and in the box of the truck there must be a similar situation where the the cab of the truck, or the front of the cockpit with a driver in place, created a vacuum behind them that actually pulled air forward from the back of the space.

So, with both vents facing forward, forcing air into the engine compartment, and the suction effect of the vent on the floor, it might circulate more air.

There was some discussion on the thread about hatch scoops about how a rear facing opening actually caused air to be drawn into the engine compartment. If this is in fact true, then it would appear that the direction the vents face is moot because they are forcing air into the compartment either way. 4 vents just might allow more air in, and all the air that isn't consumed by the giant "air pump" we call the engine, goes around the sides of the cockpit, and comes out the front of the cockpit.

Who knows. This boat has survived 42 years, so I guess this is much talk about something relatively insignificant.

[CHACHI]

[quote=Just Say N20;522907]
I also remembered driving around my pickup truck, and looking in the back when going along at any speed over about 30 mph, and seeing things (leaves, empty cans) "floating" around in the box, and how things would accumulate right behind the cab, not at the tailgate.

With this type of "debris" activity, I highly recommend that you do not open the rear slider on the cab while any other window in the cab is down.

You can't believe how fast that stuff can end up on your dash.

Ken

[classicform]

Single latch for engine hatch is correct. Not sure when mine was changed.

However, we are definitely constructing a time line for production numbers. Bobby D's '70 Ski Sporter is hull 600. Hopefully we'll get one for the red/blue '69 on another thread soon.

I am meeting the owner today at 1530 to see the '69 mentioned above...I'll be taking lots of pics and will be sure to write down all the numbers.

[Bobby D]

Bill great job so far and good luck with the project when you are done it will be better than new.
Beautiful red boat, I was on Jay’s boat last year and it’s a knock out and IMO his boat has the BEST looking steering wheel Donzi ever installed on a ski sporter and I believe yours (the red boat) should have been delivered with on as well.
I’m confused I thought that two corner latches were used on the early boats? My 1970 ski sporters had (4) four vents and (2) latches. The previous owner removed the corner latches and installed Ford hold down pins, last winter I changed it back to factory installation.

[Just Say N20]

Bobby D, what a GREAT looking boat! All of a sudden, people are posting pictures of these great, older 16s. I'm surprised at how many of them have the original driver's seat.

The back side of my dash is in need of some attention, and it has been really cut up. There is a picture of what is left of the hull number, and then my "Photoshopically" enhanced version.

Also the "floor vent."

[Just Say N20]

"Why projects always take so much longer than you would think."

I decided I might as well pull the outdrive. I can't get the engine to come free.

One of the board members STRONGLY recommends using an outdrive stand. Like most people, I didn't have one sitting around, so I put this together. I think it should work fine.

Is there a product I can use on the threads of the screws when I put the outdrive all back together that will inhibit/prevent all that white, powdery junk that seemed to be on every screw/bolt I removed? I don't know if it is some kind of reaction between the SS and aluminum, but many of the 5-minute jobs of removing parts, turned into hour+ jobs.

[mattyboy]

I had my 16 for 8 seasons and never felt hot aircoming out of the seat vent, unless something is different there is only one real clamshell vent in that sent up the one that faces fwd, the one that faces aft is for the blower, so I ask again you guys have no problem with bilge fumes back into the cockpit????

and the next time you have your pickup out on the water introduce air into the bed underneath the rear window

better yet leave the tonneau cover on the bed introduce the air in the same spot just like the seat vent and leave one corner of the cover off in the back and see what happens

if anything I would turn the clammshell backwards with the seat vent being the intake and the clamshell being the exhaust


last time Cliff and I went thru just'n20 boat we had it at hull 409??? is 406 the confirmed number?? what were the original colors did you find any numbers by the bow eye??


think about it guys but not to hard they have been around for 42 years ;)



the white powdery stuff comes from raw metal mainly the alum acting as a sacrificail anode, you have to prime and paint it( west has the stuff in spray cans both the primer and the outdrive paint) seems fresh water is worse for that kind of stuff, then install the sacrificail anodes behind the prop shaft and the torque tab fin then there is a bar on the bottom of the transom housing if the paint job covers everything BUT the anodes it won't happen as much and only on the anodes once any alum in the drive housing is exposed it will start there too and will eventually lead to pitting

[Just Say N20]

Mattyboy,

See the post a couple above for the pictures of the back of the dash. I "guessed" that the first digit was a 4, because nothing else made sense.

You can almost see the complete 0. I will take the wire block off tonight and look behind it. Maybe that is a 6, not a 0.

I don't see how the last digit could be a 9, but very easily could be a 6.

Is there somewhere else on the hull I should look for an identifying number? It will never be easier to get at then right now. :yes:

NOTE: I EDITED PREVIOUS POSTS TO REFLECT THE PROPER HULL NUMBER OF 409.

[mattyboy]

just a quick note here, in all my research only boats made in 67 had the donzi prop logo slotted steering wheel, a 66 would have the normal three holes on each spoke covico wheel as would a 68

anyone care to venture why this was???????

tune into next years trivia quiz


I have a slotted donzi prop logo wheel anyone interested in having a reproduction made, last time I checked for under 100 the price would be between 1300-1600 dollars a wheel and that was 2-3 years ago

[mattyboy]

as i said in a post a few post ago


THE BOWEYE ;)


here is a pic of what mine looked like


just remember they didn't always write on the deck at the same angle or the bow eye it depended on the person writing the number and how the deck was positioned at the time upside down right side up, there was no set rule as they were putting out a boat in two weeks and working on 6-10 16's at a time not to mention the other models

mine was 410 jay's is 420 they both were built in april of 67 that's 10 16's a month

as my Dad would say that's asses and elbows


do you know the original color of the boat???? we thought it was all inca gold with grumble green stripes??



just a quick note when reading this post the boat has a new owners who is beating the **** out of the boat the tank has not failed leaked or budged he has beating it so hard the starter fell out the glass tabs and 5200 I put around the seal of the deck have busted but the tank is still inplace and sound

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=23152&highlight=mattyboy%27s+deck+lifting

[seano]

Bobby D, what a GREAT looking boat! All of a sudden, people are posting pictures of these great, older 16s. I'm surprised at how many of them have the original driver's seat.
The back side of my dash is in need of some attention, and it has been really cut up. There is a picture of what is left of the hull number, and then my "Photoshopically" enhanced version.
Also the "floor vent."

are all of the back seats cut out like that? my 69 is cut the same way...both the bottom of the seat and the seat back.

[Just Say N20]

as i said in a post a few post ago
THE BOWEYE ;)

I will look there, but that has also been repaired/replaced on this hull. There is a piece of non-glassed in plywood holding in the bow eye. Perhaps beneath that, the original will still be there.


do you know the original color of the boat???? we thought it was all inca gold with grumble green stripes??


I don't know the original color. Marshall referred to it as a mustard color, but no mention of what the stripe was. It looks like the boat was repainted with the deck on, and on the small section beneath the hull deck overlap, I would say you might call that color Inca Gold.

Are we having fun yet? :nilly:

[mattyboy]

your fun as yet to start


been there done that, got the t shirt and the complimentary case of safety foamed in canadian beer ;)

[mattyboy]

are all of the back seats cut out like that? my 69 is cut the same way...both the bottom of the seat and the seat back.
seano
the top of the back seat had the notch cut out of it by bilt rite to accomodate the cover strut that ran from front to back my 16 had the hardware for both the front to back and side to side cover strut

not sure what you mean about the bottom of the seat?? the proper bilt rite interior should be 5 pieces two bottom seat pads one front seat back and two seat backs

[Just Say N20]

are all of the back seats cut out like that? my 69 is cut the same way...both the bottom of the seat and the seat back.

If you are referring to the actual cut in the seat bottom and back, this was done to my boat, I'm guessing when it was re-powered. In person, you can see where someone had an "oops" with the sawzall blade.

I think they needed some extra clearance for the front mounted water pump. A friend of mine has an original late 60s and his seat back has a small hole cut in the seat back to give clearance for some pulley bolt heads, but the rest of the seat back and bottom are just one, big continuous piece.

[mattyboy]

If you are referring to the actual cut in the seat bottom and back, this was done to my boat, I'm guessing when it was re-powered. In person, you can see where someone had an "oops" with the sawzall blade.
I think they needed some extra clearance for the front mounted water pump. A friend of mine has an original late 60s and his seat back has a small hole cut in the seat back to give clearance for some pulley bolt heads, but the rest of the seat back and bottom are just one, big continuous piece.

got it the actual seat not the pads

yes most likely remember these old boats wern't meant to be chevies, most came with crank driven water pumps and only had one pulley for the alt. ask Donzi Di and Cliff they have an extremely early 16 that was up dated to a chevy and a merc and all the stuff that includes they have about a 5 card poker run hand clearance to the back seat bulkhead from the front of the motor

[Bobby D]

Thanks Bill the previous owner gets most of the credit for its overall appearance he took very good care of it. My goal is to maintain it and do one improvement or enhancement a year. Hull number was easy for me my boat has the foil tag with all the numbers (hull, engine and out drive stamped on it.

[Just Say N20]

Thanks Bill the previous owner gets most of the credit for its overall appearance he took very good care of it. My goal is to maintain it and do one improvement or enhancement a year. Hull number was easy for me my boat has the foil tag with all the numbers (hull, engine and out drive stamped on it.

I had heard of the foil tag, but I don't see one anywhere on my boat. . .yet. Might not have looked in the right place.

Time for more pictures. Turns out Mattyboy just might be right with the hull number being 409, not 406. Hey, I'm always willing to admit when I'm wrong. The wood behind the bow eye is really rotten, and you can see in the 3rd picture, the glass is totally dry; no resin at all.

Also right about the color being originally Inca Gold.

[MDonziM]

Mine is C16-406, and it doesn't have the vent on the transom.

Mine also has a different hatch latch setup, with only one latch in the center, not one on each forward corner like Jay's.

Bill,

It used to have the vent on the transom, but it wasn't really a vent.

[mattyboy]

Bill,

It used to have the vent on the transom, but it wasn't really a vent.


Marshall did it have a transom light in it???

[MDonziM]

Marshall did it have a transom light in it???

If you mean a running light, yes. Typical adjustable pole type.

[MDonziM]

Marshall did it have a transom light in it???

If you mean one of those lights mounted on the transom center under the lift ring, no. I thought those were in some 70's and 80's boats. The 16 had a faux grill/vent over the center stripe between the lift ring and the rub rail which was applied but non functional (no hole thru the deck) but original I believe.

[mattyboy]

If you mean one of those lights mounted on the transom center under the lift ring, no. I thought those were in some 70's and 80's boats. The 16 had a faux grill/vent over the center stripe between the lift ring and the rub rail which was applied but non functional (no hole thru the deck) but original I believe.


it seems both might be original just a louvre non functional and a louvre with a stern light mine was original and it had a light, will have to research it and see if maybe it was an option???

[Just Say N20]

Back from a great 4th of July on White Lake with the Carver. Super weather, great fireworks, and I got to see Bald Eagle, True Blue, Trueser's son, and I didn't know it at the time, Dr. Dan's Pantera, all flying down the lake at some point.

Now to get at the DONZI in earnest.

Marshall, thanks for the information on the faux vent being there at one point.

[mattyboy]

it seems the boats that had a stern light( a standard pole light) were mounted on the starboard side and had the grill but no vent , my 16 was fitted with a transom light in the vent and a removeable mast head light on the fore deck as did the benchseat hornets of that era so there must have been a lighting option. I'll grab some pics but the 12th annual dustoff had hull 409 410 and 420 all 16's that were in the factory in april of 67 pretty amazing that they would all be tied up to the dock in june of 2007 ;)

[Just Say N20]

I'll grab some pics but the 12th annual dustoff had hull 409 410 and 420 all 16's that were in the factory in april of 67 pretty amazing that they would all be tied up to the dock in june of 2007 ;)

That is amazing! Looking forward to seeing the pictures.

[MDonziM]

it seems the boats that had a stern light( a standard pole light) were mounted on the starboard side and had the grill but no vent , my 16 was fitted with a transom light in the vent and a removeable mast head light on the fore deck as did the benchseat hornets of that era so there must have been a lighting option. I'll grab some pics but the 12th annual dustoff had hull 409 410 and 420 all 16's that were in the factory in april of 67 pretty amazing that they would all be tied up to the dock in june of 2007 ;)

That is pretty cool. I'll see if I can find any old pics that show any of these details.

[MDonziM]

Hard to see but its all I have. In the water circa 1980. In the baotyard with the new paint circa 1985.

[Just Say N20]

In the second picture, and I assume the boat has been painted at this point as there is no more grill on the back, and the decals are different, it looks like the bottom was painted the same color as the rest of the hull. Is this the case?

[MDonziM]

In the second picture, and I assume the boat has been painted at this point as there is no more grill on the back, and the decals are different, it looks like the bottom was painted the same color as the rest of the hull. Is this the case?

No, I always had bottom paint on the boat so when it was repainted it was feathered out below the waterline. Sorry.

[mattyboy]

as you can see by the pics Marshall posted, the second one shows the original 67 steering wheel and it has the telescoping stern light on the starboard side, the exact same setup as the 1967 brochure boat the pic of the all red white stripe 16 with a couple on a date her is an a sport coat and is pouring champagne. that boat also had one fwd and on aft facing clamshell vent with no vent or grill by the rear lift ring. The decal with the dolphin and lion are not correct they must have been added later, the lion and dolphin didn't come around until full Chisholm ownership in 67 teleflex were still owners.

yet one hull after, my 16 had the same wheel the same clamshell vent arrangement but no telescoping stern light, it had a masthead light on the foredeck and the stern light in the transom in a grill with one hole

this is the same setup that came on the 1965 brochure boat and the prototype boat from sweden. In the 1965 brochure they refer to the stern light as "international lighting" so maybe this was an option or they didn't have any telescoping lights left and used what they had on hand???

I can see just a grill being easy to loose as it would only have four screw holes to fill and fair, my grill had a 2.5 inch hole in the center for the light that would not be so easy to loose. never mind a 65 with the 3-4 holes in it for the bilge blower

[Just Say N20]

as you can see by the pics Marshall posted, the second one shows the original 67 steering wheel and it has the telescoping stern light on the starboard side, the exact same setup as the 1967 brochure boat the pic of the all red white stripe 16 with a couple on a date her is an a sport coat and is pouring champagne. that boat also had one fwd and on aft facing clamshell vent with no vent or grill by the rear lift ring.

This boat looks like it had a vent by the lifting ring before Marshall had it repainted.

Good history lesson.

[mattyboy]

yes a grill no light so 4 screw holes need to be filled and faired, not sure what is going on with the decals on that boat , it has what looks like a donzi racing decal and a corsican decal I have no clue on the last one??

[Forrest]

" . . .Is there a product I can use on the threads of the screws when I put the outdrive all back together that will inhibit/prevent all that white, powdery junk that seemed to be on every screw/bolt I removed? . . .

Coat the threads with OMC Gasket Sealing Compound (http://www.go2marine.com/product.do?no=78394F). With this stuff, the bolts will come out without a problem years later even when left in salt water.

[Just Say N20]

Coat the threads with OMC Gasket Sealing Compound (http://www.go2marine.com/product.do?no=78394F). With this stuff, the bolts will come out without a problem years later even when left in salt water.

Thank you! Hopefully this boat will be "fresh water only" during my tenure of ownership, so this stuff should work fantastic.

[MDonziM]

yes a grill no light so 4 screw holes need to be filled and faired, not sure what is going on with the decals on that boat , it has what looks like a donzi racing decal and a corsican decal I have no clue on the last one??

Yes the rear vent was left off in 1985 when the boat was repainted. I also put on new decals at that time. The donzi racing decal was added prior to my purchase in 1980, and yes, one of the orig decals was the corsican and I'm trying to remeber the other. It had a red diamond pattern on the top and I think said monaco but not sure. I'll try to dig up more pics.

[Just Say N20]

Finally got the engine free. I took the outdrive off, but turns out I didn't need to. Better to have it out of the way.

If I have to replace the stringers, I'm wondering how I will line up the engine correctly with this type of mount. There is no adjustment, so how would I accomplish this task?

Then, I made the blunder of blunders, and tried to push the hanging engine around to get at the flywheel to remove it. I pushed the engine slightly away from the back of the lift, and that was all it took. I hadn't extended the legs out far enough relative to the boom extension. It was hanging fine, when left alone.

I was going to replace the oil pan as it was leaking from a few pinholes. I wasn't planning on replacing the fuel pump, but now that I can see the inside of it. . .

No real harm done, as it was about 3 feet off the ground, and fell slowly. Still, you hate to see this. One of those, "I knew better than to do this, what the heck was I thinking?"

[Speed Racer]

finally got the engine free. I took the outdrive off, but turns out i didn't need to. Better to have it out of the way.

If i have to replace the stringers, i'm wondering how i will line up the engine correctly with this type of mount. There is no adjustment, so how would i accomplish this task?

Then, i made the blunder of blunders, and tried to push the hanging engine around to get at the flywheel to remove it. I pushed the engine slightly away from the back of the lift, and that was all it took. I hadn't extended the legs out far enough relative to the boom extension. It was hanging fine, when left alone.

I was going to replace the oil pan as it was leaking from a few pinholes. I wasn't planning on replacing the fuel pump, but now that i can see the inside of it. . .

No real harm done, as it was about 3 feet off the ground, and fell slowly. Still, you hate to see this. One of those, "i knew better than to do this, what the heck was i thinking?"


ouch!!!

[Kirbyvv]

Those look like some home made engine mounts. I'd swap them out for something a bit more adjustable.

[jl1962]

Hey at least it didn't fall the other way and land on the deck! :bonk:

Awesome start, Bill. Glad you are going for the whole enchilada!

Jay

[MOP]

Alignment on early Volvo's is almost automatic!!! Basicly the bell housing snout is held firmly in place in the transom shield by two hard rubber doughnuts, when you tighten the snout into the transom shield it is aligned as good as it gets. Them thar Sweds are some smart fellows, one of the very best OD mounting systems!

[Just Say N20]

Bell housing is out (with help from MOP), and hull is degreased, so I can start grinding (self-induced itch fest! Actually I bought a white suit to protect myself) and getting ready for all the corrections and improvements.

[BigGrizzly]

I have seen these engine mounts before, the really ar not that bad because there is no rubber mount and the press directly down on the stringers instead of out. they are solidly bolted to the engine so the weight goes directly down.

[Just Say N20]

My first adventure into the wonderful world of fiberglass grinding.

Gee, this is a lot of fun! :eek:

I can't believe how much dust this generates!

Thankfully, Parnell stopped by to add some moral support.

[Ghost]

Take me to your leader.

[Sweet Cheekz]

Looking good Bill It was a perfect night to grind Keep up the good work
Parnell

[zelatore]

off topic, but man, that's some kinda green yard you got there! Here in CA I don't even think the golf courses look that green. And as for my yard.....forgetaboutit!

(probably doesn't help that it hasn't rained here in months - maybe Louisville can lend us a little)

[MOP]

My first adventure into the wonderful world of fiberglass grinding.

Gee, this is a lot of fun! :eek:

I can't believe how much dust this generates!

Thankfully, Parnell stopped by to add some moral support.

Did a ton of grinding of glass, a tip get a big fan and direct it where it will blow the dust away from you. I put it behind me so it helps to keep me cool on hot days.

[MOP]

off topic, but man, that's some kinda green yard you got there! Here in CA I don't even think the golf courses look that green. And as for my yard.....forgetaboutit!

(probably doesn't help that it hasn't rained here in months - maybe Louisville can lend us a little)


More off! It has rained here so much our lawns are starting to rot, you can pull out big patches even using fungus stuff.

[Just Say N20]

off topic, but man, that's some kinda green yard you got there! Here in CA I don't even think the golf courses look that green. And as for my yard.....forgetaboutit!
(probably doesn't help that it hasn't rained here in months - maybe Louisville can lend us a little)

Thanks! Yard is looking good. July was the coldest month on record for Grand Rapids. Ever, since they have been keeping records. Something like 67.3. And we have an in-ground sprinkling system.

All this has worked together to produce some mighty fine looking lawns.

[Just Say N20]

Did a ton of grinding of glass, a tip get a big fan and direct it where it will blow the dust away from you. I put it behind me so it helps to keep me cool on hot days.

Thanks for the suggestion. I actually thought about that last night, but I "loaned" my son my industrial post mounted fan, and he gave it away.

So I had more fun. About every 15 - 20 minutes, I stopped grinding and fired up the leaf blower to "clear out" the work area. I got that same feeling I used to get as a kid jumping in a pile of leaves. Huge smile watching the E-N-O-R-M-O-U-S cloud of dust I created drift off to settle onto my grass. :shades:

[Sweet Cheekz]

off topic, but man, that's some kinda green yard you got there! Here in CA I don't even think the golf courses look that green. And as for my yard.....forgetaboutit!

(probably doesn't help that it hasn't rained here in months - maybe Louisville can lend us a little)

Just an FYI It looked like Augusta National out there Really nice till he dusted the whole neighberhood white Then it looked like winter :)
Parnell

[MOP]

Just an FYI It looked like Augusta National out there Really nice till he dusted the whole neighberhood white Then it looked like winter :)
Parnell


:rlol::rlol::rlol::nilly:

[Just Say N20]

'splains his new avatar :) :D

:lol9:

You guys are killing me. :clap:

[Sweet Cheekz]

'splains his new avatar :) :D

Must have blown into the back yard too. I didn't see that little pond in the front but at one point visibility was down to 10 feet.
SC

[gcarter]

I guess you could always be grateful it's a 16 and not a Minx or 22.
Probably 4 times as much area to grind! :eek:

[Just Say N20]

I guess you could always be grateful it's a 16 and not a Minx or 22.
Probably 4 times as much area to grind! :eek:

For that, I am VERY thankful :yes: .

I got most of the rest of the back done tonight.

I would love a suggestion as to where to buy a different outfit. This was the closest I could find, from Harbor Freight, $3.99, but it breaths. When I take it off, I am covered with a very fine dust. I figure I have at least 2 more sessions of grinding to do. Thankfully it has been in the 70s for this work, rather than the 90s.

[Sweet Cheekz]

Try Finishmaster on 28th Tyvek Suite

[Sweet Cheekz]

Priceless

[Just Say N20]

Priceless

Classic picture! Thanks. I apparently was too focused to see you snap that one. A good one for the collection.

Thanks for posting it. :yes:

[wagspe208]

What book did you buy?
Wags

[Just Say N20]

What book did you buy?
Wags

Recommended by gcarter, THE fiberglass man, in an earlier thread about this project.


Sorry I didn't get back to this sooner, but this is a very complicated subject.
Actually any handy person can do it, but good guidance is required.
I'd like to reccomend a book to study;

"The fiberglass boat repair manual"
by Allan Vaitses

http://www.amazon.com/Fiberglass-Boat-Repair-Manual/dp/0071569146/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238120036&sr=1-10

This book is invaluable for repairs like this and many others.

I have a copy somewhere, but I can't seem to find it....

[Just Say N20]

This might go in the "taboo topics" list, but I'm going to toss it out there. . .

While I am redoing everything on this boat, would I be sent straight to DONZI enthusiast H3LL if I moved the gas fill from the "I can't reach it without a ladder when the boat is on the trailer" location, to a more user friendly location by the side of the hull?

Bald Eagle had a 2006 18C with this location of the fuel fill. While I don't think it looks quite as nice, it would allow me to actually fill the boat with gas without having to get a complete workout each time.

[gcarter]

it would allow me to actually fill the boat with gas without having to get a complete workout each time.

Don't be a wimp....workouts are good for you. :cool!:

[Just Say N20]

Don't be a wimp....workouts are good for you. :cool!:

OK. Different course.

It would be really good for the environment, because I would be filling right next to the over flow, so I could hear when it was going to be full, avoiding spilling all that evil gasoline into, well, whatever.
:yes:

[Just Say N20]

Your not gonna like your new nickname if you do... :nilly: :nilly:

Good point.

Not sure about the current one. . . .:wink:

[gcarter]

OK. Different course.

It would be really good for the environment, because I would be filling right next to the over flow, so I could hear when it was going to be full, avoiding spilling all that evil gasoline into, well, whatever.
:yes:

Standing on the ladder, it always seemed to hit me right in the crotch.

Bummer!

Probably a good thing I don't smoke....that could be painful.

[Just Say N20]

Nice try ;) :)
We'll get you a vent whistle...

:mad:

OK, then how about pop-up cleats? Lots of them! 4 per side! :yes: Make tying up a breeze! Hold lots of bumpers, which I will leave out while driving the boat as a preventative measure!

:lol9:

[RBT]

Great thread, if you ever have questions on glass I will be glad to help. A lot more on the technical than the fiberglass man book. Your old hull will only get a mechanical bond, there are resins (not epoxy) that will etch the glass and create a bond. Grinding tip, 24 grill aluminum oxide from home depot.... WAY faster than a flap wheel, and your air filter should be an N95( purple) not an organic. If you can smell the grinding glass......... well you are breathing it.
Also, cover your skin in talc powder before you grind, it does help.

Best of luck

RT

[Just Say N20]

Great thread, if you ever have questions on glass I will be glad to help. A lot more on the technical than the fiberglass man book. Your old hull will only get a mechanical bond, there are resins (not epoxy) that will etch the glass and create a bond. Grinding tip, 24 grill aluminum oxide from home depot.... WAY faster than a flap wheel, and your air filter should be an N95( purple) not an organic. If you can smell the grinding glass......... well you are breathing it.
Also, cover your skin in talc powder before you grind, it does help.
Best of luck
RT

Thanks for the offer, I might take you up on it, as you have witnessed, I have very little experience with this stuff.

I have been using the flap wheels (40, and some 60 grit) and kind of like it because so far, I have not had a "daylight" experience (gone through the hull). I found them (Norton brand) at Harbor Freight for $4.99/ea. Can't beat that.

I could smell it! Am I going to die?:confused:

BTW, the correct answer is "YES, you are going to die. Eventually. We all do."

Thanks for the tips. I appreciate it. :yes:

[RBT]

I meant to say grit. The disks at home depot are like a dollar each.
Good luck with it, I love a project!

[rustnrot]

...there are resins (not epoxy) that will etch the glass and create a bond.
RT

As in a chemical bond?, please enlighten me, thanks.

[Just Say N20]

As in a chemical bond?, please enlighten me, thanks.

I'm intrigued too. More information please. :yes:

[gcarter]

He's probably referring to Atprime.....I looked into it but couldn't find less than 5 gallon pails.....maybe I didn't know where to look.

It's a good idea though.

[RBT]

As I am sure many of you are aware, standard poly laminating resin has a good mechanical bond on activated laminate but next to nothing on cured resin. These old boats have very hard well cured poly. It is tough to get a mechanical bond, that is why I suggested a 24 grit disk, there is more bite in the scratches you make.
With modern materials, there are better ways. Dow Chemical makes a vinylester resin called Durakane 8084. This is a resin that etches the old laminate, and has a mechanical bond that exceeds epoxy. I would suggest to keep the cost down that you skin your work with 8084 and 1oz mat then go back to good old cheep poly. This gives you a great bond, the strongest mechanical you can get, then after that, the poly will have a chemical bond with the 8084.
Epoxy, while a great resin doesn't reach its advertised strength till it is post cured. Add that it creates bonding issues if you plan on geling or painting over it..... it is also spendy.

[Sweet Cheekz]

Good Info
Bill
If you need some let me know Its all I used on my boat and the next one
Parnell

[Just Say N20]

Good Info
Bill
If you need some let me know Its all I used on my boat and the next one
Parnell

A. Why am I not surprised?

B. I will give you a call. :yes:

C. Thanks.

[Just Say N20]

Stayed home this week end to get some work done. The project is now taking up the entire garage.

I got the deck flipped with the help of a neighbor, cherry picker, and a couple of furniture dollys.

Went much easier than I expected. Someone (sorry to whoever it was, but I don't remember) suggested I put it on salt bags, once it was flipped. I had 3 yards of really good sand left over from the project of filling in the hole we had our trampoline in, just waiting to be used up in the woods. So I used some 13 gallon trash bags inside 4 $2.50/ea pillow cases, and got the same result. They are the 4 green bags in the first picture.

The dolly rolled up as the deck was lifted. We did have to force the dollys under to get it to come over, and then let the rope out, but it worked great.

You can see how big a section was cut out in the seat. Also thought I would post a picture of the underside of the bow in a boat that didn't have coring, rather the PVC pipe.

Thanks to all those who offered advice and suggestions.

Parnell, you said you deepened your cockpit? I'm guessing you cut the stringers down about 3" and then cut the bottom out of the tub and dropped it 3" also? My fuel tank fitting had almost worn a hole through the floor of the extension part of the cockpit. I can't lower the tank, so the part where you put your feet would have to be up 3" higher (basically stay at the same level it always was.) than a lowered floor would be. Is this how yours worked out, with a raised footwell? Was it worth it?

[gcarter]

I was the one using salt bags and furniture dollies. I'm glad the idea works for you.
It's pretty amazing what you can do w/the deck upside down.

[Just Say N20]

I thought it was you gcarter, but my fuzzy memory wasn't working too well.

I am going to run large diameter PVC that runs the entire distance from the front to the back to run stuff through rather than the short sections.

I'm also going to drill/tap some 1/2" thick aluminum blocks, and 5200 them to the underside of the deck where the grab rail attaches, so you can take the grab rail off easily.

Any thoughts about lowering the floor in the 16, so you feel more "in" it rather than "on" it?

[gcarter]

Any thoughts about lowering the floor in the 16, so you feel more "in" it rather than "on" it?

I've only ridden in a 16 once.........I felt very vulnerable!
I think I'd upsize.....

[Ghost]

I'm also going to drill/tap some 1/2" thick aluminum blocks, and 5200 them to the underside of the deck where the grab rail attaches, so you can take the grab rail off easily.

Just a thought about the aluminum blocks, but since these choices are all up to you...

Is there a good way to protect aluminum threads when a steel bolt is put in them (that doesn't require nearly annual maintenance)? I just know my experiences have been lousy, and the best I have been able to do is treat the threads heavily with an anti-seize, and then back the bolts out every couple years, brush them clean (never seen them not need it by the time I did it), re-treat them, and put them back in.

If there isn't a better way, I was wondering if some other method of making a stainless nut captive might be an option. Just a thought.

Or maybe using 4200, or something else to make the backing plates a bit more removable if the threads eventually get hosed, and re-tapping would make for screws too big for the rail.

[Just Say N20]

Good thought. With 100% fresh water use, I don't know that I would have trouble. It is interesting that this is the process Tiara uses to back their bow rails, and they used predominantly chromed stainless steel nuts/bolts/screws.

[mike o]

As I am sure many of you are aware, standard poly laminating resin has a good mechanical bond on activated laminate but next to nothing on cured resin. These old boats have very hard well cured poly. It is tough to get a mechanical bond, that is why I suggested a 24 grit disk, there is more bite in the scratches you make.
With modern materials, there are better ways. Dow Chemical makes a vinylester resin called Durakane 8084. This is a resin that etches the old laminate, and has a mechanical bond that exceeds epoxy. I would suggest to keep the cost down that you skin your work with 8084 and 1oz mat then go back to good old cheep poly. This gives you a great bond, the strongest mechanical you can get, then after that, the poly will have a chemical bond with the 8084.
Epoxy, while a great resin doesn't reach its advertised strength till it is post cured. Add that it creates bonding issues if you plan on geling or painting over it..... it is also spendy. Dow sold all their durakane vinlyester stuff to Ashland chemical Co a while back.:yes: I would do some-"n" else if It were me. I would get rid of all the pvc for sure.

[RBT]

Dow sold all their durakane vinlyester stuff to Ashland chemical Co a while back.:yes: I would do some-"n" else if It were me. I would get rid of all the pvc for sure.

Funny, I looked at a drum the other day and noticed that. I should not too that if you cant buy it unpromoted it doesn't have much of a shelf life..........

[Sunapee Dreamer]

When would a 96 Classic 22 be a candidate for a deck removal/tank replacement, if ever?

How much should I expect to pay a shop to do the work?

Thanks

[Just Say N20]

Well, one of the main reasons I took the deck off, was so I could properly repair the L-lounge.

Of all the projects I have done so far, this has been the easiest, and least painful, and completed in a couple of hours. At least the taking apart portion.

Many, many people from this site, have seen this sight before. Here it is again.

The forward portion of the side lounge, where the wood isn't discolored, was wet, but not rotting. Yet. The wood under the back section of the seat was "ring-it-out" wet.

[gcarter]

When would a 96 Classic 22 be a candidate for a deck removal/tank replacement, if ever?

How much should I expect to pay a shop to do the work?

Thanks
In that period of time, some tanks were polyethylene and some were aluminum.
You can crawl under the deck and see which it is.
Pray for a poly tank as it will last a long time.
I think Cuda had that and some other things done and it cost about $9K.

[gcarter]

Well, one of the main reasons I took the deck off, was so I could properly repair the L-lounge.

Of all the projects I have done so far, this has been the easiest, and least painful, and completed in a couple of hours. At least the taking apart portion.

Many, many people from this site, have seen this sight before. Here it is again.

The forward portion of the side lounge, where the wood isn't discolored, was wet, but not rotting. Yet. The wood under the back section of the seat was "ring-it-out" wet.
It looks like Donzi used the square pieces of plywood coring for a long time....a realy bad idea.....
I would imagine that, once removed, a single piece of Coosaboard cut to the exact size needed would be a great solution.

[rustnrot]

Is it plywood, George? Not that it matters but it looked to me like balsa but instead of being laid "end grain" like is done now it was laid "lengthwise".

No matter, I would not use balsa going back.

[Just Say N20]

It was balsa wood, and it was laid length-wise, rather than end grain.

I went a little way into checking out the Coosaboard, but found a local source for Hydrotech plywood. The 3/4" is 9-layer, marine glue, no void wood, with UV inhibitors in it. I bought a 4 x 8 x 3/4" sheet for $113 to use for the stringers.

I was going to use some for the seat repair, but 3/4" thick seems like mega overkill. And it is pretty heavy stuff.

I rode in a 16 over Labor Day that was powered by a 4.3 V6, and I was amazed at how little bow rise it had during take off, compared to what I got with this 16. I don't think I need any more weight near the back.

[BigGrizzly]

I used Coosa for my floor because it was only 20$ more then what you got and MUCH lighter plus it can not absorb water period, easy to work with. If I were going to do stringers and a transom I definitely use it.

[rustnrot]

I'm sure you have thought of this already, but when we did a 16, the floor sat right on the stringers. Be careful you don't get the new stringers too high or the new floor core too thick or the top won't go on right.

I would also tab the cockpit floor to the stringers but this has to be done way late in the process.

[Just Say N20]

The nearest distributor was 3+ hours away in Indiana, so getting it to me was also an issue. I don't know what it costs to ship a 4 x 8 sheet of something, but I can't imagine it would be cheap.

I have no doubt it is a superior product. I plan to seal the plywood before installing it. The original wood, which didn't look sealed (stringers) lasted 42 years. If my repair lasts only that long, it will be the year 2051, and I will be 95 years old, and while I hope I will still have the boat, and the ability to enjoy it, it will probably be illegal to run such a fossil-fuel-burning, noise pollution creating fun machine anyway.

[CaribouLou]

I have no doubt it is a superior product. I plan to seal the plywood before installing it. The original wood, which didn't look sealed (stringers) lasted 42 years. If my repair lasts only that long, it will be the year 2051, and I will be 95 years old, and while I hope I will still have the boat, and the ability to enjoy it, it will probably be illegal to run such a fossil-fuel-burning, noise pollution creating fun machine anyway.


That right there is post of the year material! I just laughed out loud.

[Just Say N20]

I'm sure you have thought of this already, but when we did a 16, the floor sat right on the stringers. Be careful you don't get the new stringers too high or the new floor core too thick or the top won't go on right.

I would also tab the cockpit floor to the stringers but this has to be done way late in the process.

Thanks for the heads up on this.

The existing stringers were about an inch higher than they needed to be for this engine, which created a couple of issues, so I was going to lower them about that much in the engine compartment.

I also though about "shaving" the stringers down slightly under the cockpit to accommodate the thicker floor.

When I pulled the deck, the cockpit wasn't attached to the floor anywhere! I could see where all the glass had been cut through, which made removal of the deck very easy. However there was some serious chaffing showing on the underside of the cockpit floor, suggesting there was a lot of movement happening. I plan to glass them back together to create a more solid unit.

I'm stilling trying to decide if I am going to add gussets in the engine compartment or not. Thoughts?

[gcarter]

Since the problem w/the deck moving around on the stringers is so wide spread, you might be interested in tying the deck to the stringers in the manner I did on the Minx.
The process consists of bolting 2" X 2" X 1/4" aluminum angles along the outside of the stringers at the top. 2" wide strips of 4" exhaust hose were cut and gled to the bottom of the tub so that the strips sat precisely on the angles when the deck is on. Several 3/4" diameter holes were cut or sawed through the rubber and the cockpit bottom. I had some SST washers w/countersunk holes through the middle and a 15* chamfer around the perimeter cut from some 2" diameter SST barstock. Unfortunately, I never took any pictures of the washers. But you can see the 1/4-20 tapped holes in the angles. Then it was easy enough to screw some 1/4"-20 csk flat head, Phillips recess screws through the washers and into the angles. There were three screws on each side of the stringers. This process has a lot of advantages over the silly little glass tabs Donzi used.
The washers had a nice finished look, they were 1/4" thick and had a nice 15* chamfer on the edge. Of course it was all hidden under the carpet anyway.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=50522&stc=1&d=1252612335

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=50524&stc=1&d=1252613384

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=50525&stc=1&d=1252613384

[Just Say N20]

Looks like a very good idea, and it would be easily reversible when, in 2051, someone else thinks they need to replace the tank, stringers, or Mr. Fusion.

I like it! And I already have all the materials necessary.

Did you use Loc-Tite or something else on the bolts holding the 2 x 2 rails to the stringers to keep them from loosening?

[gcarter]

Yes, I used some blue LocTite. It also doubles as anti-sieze.
The convenience is really great as you only remove six screws from the cockpit to remove the deck.

[Just Say N20]

I know it is a matter of personal preference, but I am looking at options for when I have to paint the boat.

I have always been partial to the wide stripe on the sides. I didn't get the green quite "grumble" enough, but it gets the idea across.

Just getting the bottom paint off the boat helps the looks a lot (sorry, but I've been a fresh water boater my whole life, so I prefer this style boat to not have bottom paint).

What do you think? And I'm not referring to the quality of my Photoshop talents.

[axelkloehn]

I know it is a matter of personal preference, but I am looking at options for when I have to paint the boat.

I have always been partial to the wide stripe on the sides. I didn't get the green quite "grumble" enough, but it gets the idea across.

Just getting the bottom paint off the boat helps the looks a lot (sorry, but I've been a fresh water boater my whole life, so I prefer this style boat to not have bottom paint).

What do you think? And I'm not referring to the quality of my Photoshop talents.

Well, yellow/green does work together (see pix)... not my favorite combo but interesting, different and very unique compared to all the white/redish donzis...

[Sweet Cheekz]

I like em both and I like that you are already thinking Paint :cool:

Parnell

[Just Say N20]

The warming weather has got me working on the boat again.

I had new engine mounts made, as well as the rear lifting bracket. The originals were so completely rusted as to be unusable.

The question I'll toss out there; is there any reason why painting them is better/worse than getting them powder coated?

Who knows what the future holds, but I envision fresh water use only.

[gcarter]

Powder coating is much tougher than paint. You may remember I powder coated the rub rails of the Minx and never had a proble.
Very tough stuff, powdercoating is.

[Just Say N20]

Which fuel tank is more durable?

The tank (pictures) in my boat was installed around 1987, and is galvanized and painted, and holds 24 gallons.

I looked at Parnell's 42 gallon tank which is from his 1979 Ski-Sporter, now known as the AWESOME Sweet Cheekz. It is aluminum and appears to be in great shape.

Which one would you suggest I install in my boat based on durability?

As an aside, the metal stuff in this boat has more rust than anything I have ever encountered. Picture of the back side of the throttle mechanism.

[robertbj]

Bill,
Great to see an up-date on your project. Is it going to be done for this season? Looks like a lot of work to go yet. I think aluminum would be the way to go if you are having one made. A steel tank would have to be made then sent to a galvanizer at an extra cost and time. Keep up the good work and the up-dates. See you this summer.
Bob

[gcarter]

I don't think steel is even allowed anymore, but it's been a while since I've read about it.
SST is a no-no in the US but was OK in Canada, at least it was a few years ago.
Aluminum is really the only way to go. Poly is good, but good luck finding one that fits.

[Just Say N20]

I had a nice surprise when I got the tank out and cleaned up the label.

It has a manufacture date of 1995. I thought it was put in in 1987.

And it is made of aluminum, which has been painted. The part I cleaned up actually looks like the tank is in good shape.

I am once again leaning towards just keeping this one.

I also got a bonus today. The new Donzi Marine scripts from Seano came today. They look awesome!

[MOP]

A few hours work on the tank will save you big bucks, George and I did the same process. Three coats zinc chromate, two cats epoxy tar, it will last a very long time. Most of these tanks last about 30 years, many get changed even if good only because the deck is off.

Phil

[Just Say N20]

The target date to take the boat to the painter is Tuesday morning.

I got the deck just about finished.


Attached a large tube for wires/cables
Reinforced the forward lip of the engine hatch opening, which was cracked completely through in 2 places so it was very weak.
Filled in the center fuel fill. (Boo! :eek: Hiss!) I'm moving it to the side so I can reach it.
Reinforced a crack on "shoebox lip" at bow and port corner
Can see the permanent (attached with 5200) attachments for the grab rail brackets, so you can remove them easily.



On the inside of the hull:


Reinforced the corners of the bulkheads in front of/behind the gas tank
Cleaned up around the transom opening to assess condition


I also decided to pull the rest of the outdrive hardware off the transom. I'm glad I did as there are some issues. 4 holes from the previous outdrive were not filled, and they enlarged the opening a little much in some areas.

Has anyone ever had a "gasket plate" made for the inside of the boat. I'm thinking of using the mounting template (assuming I can come up with one) to have a 3/8" thick plate made that would look like a giant metal gasket. I would then mount that on the inside of the transom for the 6 mounting bolts to pull against.

When the 290 transom assembly was installed, they used 3/8" thick metal pieces that measured about 1.5" x 3" as washers on the inside of the transom. The middle two bolts (as opposed to the top two, and the bottom two), where the opening was boarder-line too big, they really reefed on the nuts, and collapsed the glass/wood because there new bolt holes actually broke through the wood from the opening before making it all the way through to the fiberglass on the inside.

The wood in the transom doesn't warrant replacement, so I thought I could strengthen the installation by tightening against a large metal gasket, rather than crushing the transom further.

[axelkloehn]

The wood in the transom doesn't warrant replacement, so I thought I could strengthen the installation by tightening against a large metal gasket, rather than crushing the transom further.

Bill,
I did something like this with a 0.5 inch stainless steel plate glued in with sikaflex on my old 17 Fiberform- worked very well.
But rather than trust a steel plate I would check the transom wood if you are not sure that it's ok- mine looked ok on the surface, but when I drilled a hole in it water was coming out. I am sure you have checked it intensively but just to point out...

Cheers, Axel

[jl1962]

Bill-
Very nice! What's the new color?
Jay

[Just Say N20]

Jay,

I was going to wait until it was done, but because you asked. . . .

. . . .imagine Carl C's boat, only smaller. :biggrin:

[jl1962]

Nice - but w/out the V-berths I hope!

Congrats on all the hard work.

[Sweet Cheekz]

Good progress Bill

[Just Say N20]

Jay, no V-berths.

Thanks Parnell.

Here is the issue, and why I was asking about the 3/8" metal gasket idea.

The wood is in good shape. Very low moisture and no blackness.

[MDonziM]

I had a nice surprise when I got the tank out and cleaned up the label.

It has a manufacture date of 1995. I thought it was put in in 1987.

And it is made of aluminum, which has been painted. The part I cleaned up actually looks like the tank is in good shape.

I am once again leaning towards just keeping this one.

I also got a bonus today. The new Donzi Marine scripts from Seano came today. They look awesome!

Hey Bill - Nice progress. The boat was repowered in '87 but tank was not done at that time (as you now know) I sold her around '93/'94 and I remember the next owner telling me he had the tank replaced soon after. So '95/ 96 makes sence.
Marshall

[Sweet Cheekz]

Bill
Not to give you anything else to do but you really should fill all those holes in, glass it back up and recut those two holes, metal plate or not. The plate would be a nice helper but it really should be done right. Just my .02 cents Sorry
Parnell

[Just Say N20]

Parnell,

I'm not sure I follow. I am going to fill the unused, original holes.

Are you suggesting I fill the large opening with new wood, glass the back and front and start over again?

Or perhaps cut the glass off the inside of the transom, remove the wood, insert new wood, and then glass the whole thing over?

[axelkloehn]

Bill

I agree with Parnell on the one hand, on the other hand I agree it's a lot of work cutting the inner wood out, replacing it and reglassing the whole transom.
But: If you are not sure yourself- I mean if you always think that you should have done it- I would do so because of the bad conscience you might have afterwards...
It will be always like there is something you haven't done 100%....if you understand what I mean...
I often do compromise but with this you have shown in the pictures above I would not do any compromises or tricky metal gaskets... my opinion of course!

[Just Say N20]

Axel,

I believe you are right. I have done everything 100% to this point, and it would be the right way to do it.

I was actually thinking I might get the boat done. :boggled: I have enough marine plywood to do the transom (I hope). I will have to think about this one. The wood is really in decent shape. . . . .

Bill

[gcarter]

On the other hand, you could seal the area of the holes w/penetrating epoxy and then fill w/thick epoxy.
I really don't think you'd gain anything by replacing the transom core.

A core is just a core. As long as you glassed over (maybe using epoxy and bi-directional stitched material, you'd actually pick up strength.

[Sweet Cheekz]

Bill I was just referring to the four holes you showed Fill all four and start over with the two holes you need Not the whole transom if its in good shape.
Parnell

[axelkloehn]

Bill, I must agree with George/Parnell, do fill the holes with epoxy and do something with glass to build up the area around your needed mounting holes- don't cut the whole wood out, too much effort for too little advantage.

[Just Say N20]

On the way to the painter! :yes:

Now I can focus on other things, engine, etc.

Memorial Day.

Memorial Day.

Memorial Day.

Memorial Day.

Memorial Day.

Memorial Day.

Memorial Day.

Memorial Day.

[Just Say N20]

Swung by the Painter.

Very exciting!

I was going to apologize for the cell phone pictures, but they are actually not too bad.

[Sweet Cheekz]

Nice to see they are working
Memorial day approaches quickly
Parnell

[Planetwarmer]

That thing will never float! There is a huge rectangle hole in the floor!

[Just Say N20]

I have a plan for that hole.

Well, I'm psyched! :yes:

I stopped by the painter today. . . . .

. . . . . it looks AWESOME!

[fogducker III]

Holy Paint Job Batman!!!

That is one good job....:yes:

[mike o]

Holy Paint Job Batman!!!

That is one good job....:yes:No Chit, Nice -Nice baby. All that work has payed off......:)

[Sweet Cheekz]

Congrats Bill! Looks awesome
Parnell

[Just Say N20]

Thanks guys!

Parnell, its no Sweet Cheekz. I guess I just roll old school :biggrin:.

[gcarter]

Bill, really nice paint.

[CHACHI]

Ya better be wearing sunglasses when you get her out into the sun.

Nice paint.

Ken

[Sweet Cheekz]

Thanks guys!

Parnell, its no Sweet Cheekz. I guess I just roll old school :biggrin:.

Bill Very similar to the direction I took on the 21 Looks great
Parnell

[Kirbyvv]

Very nice!!!!!!!!

[Just Say N20]

Very nice!!!!!!!!

Thanks.

It is a little intimidating to post "progress pictures" on here lately. The exceptional quality of the projects others are doing is off the charts.

I'm looking forward to whatever documentation you choose to share regarding your project. I'm sure it will be absolutely top shelf!

[Walt. H.]

Looking [A w e s o m e is an understatement Bill.
You'd better be wearing your Men in Black Foster Grants from now on! :yes:

[axelkloehn]

...love that yellow. Well done, Bill!

[Ghost]

Holy smokes that looks good!! I've been away for a few days and just saw it. Nice work.

[Greg Guimond]

WOW

That is impressive to say the least Bill !!

[The Hedgehog]

Stunning.

Nothing like the end result of a deck off job.

[Just Say N20]

Thanks for all the kind words.

(I'm still waiting for some comment about the lack of a center gas fill hole. Surely someone has noticed.)

I stopped by the painter today, and they are going to prime the hull tomorrow, let it dry for the week end, and then paint the hull the beginning of next week.

[jl1962]

Everything looks great Bill. I remember you saying how you were going to "take it slow" and restore the boat "a little at a time" - HA!

Nothing like Mission Creep! :wink:

If you make it any nicer, Earl's gonna want the boat back! :boggled:

Enjoy.

JL

[Just Say N20]

Jay, if it turns out half as nice as yours, I will be well pleased! :yes:

[Tony]

I, also, love the yellow.

It's probably mentioned somewhere, but who is the painter?
What color will the interior be?

:beer:

[Just Say N20]

O'Neill's Body Shop on Kraft, in Grand Rapids.

You wouldn't believe the amount of phenomenal prep work they did on the deck and hull. Done meticulously. I couldn't be more pleased with what they have done so far.

I struggled a little deciding on the colors. You look at color chips that are about the size of a postage stamp, and then try to imagine what they would look like on the hull.

I have no idea how Parnell was able to pull everything together he did with Sweet Cheekz. I wrestled with TWO colors. Sweet Cheekz has about a bajillion! And it looks spectacular.

And then the awesome blue he picked for the GT-21. You guys aren't going to believe that boat when you see it. Every bit as awesome as the 16, only with a couple HUNDRED more horsepower!

[Conquistador_del_mar]

I have a plan for that hole.

Well, I'm psyched! :yes:

I stopped by the painter today. . . . .

. . . . . it looks AWESOME!

Bill,
Awesome is the right word. Is it base coat/clear coat or single stage? There is nothing quite as rewarding as seeing fresh paint or gelcoat after all the hours of prep work. Another Bill

[axelkloehn]

O'Neill's Body Shop on Kraft, in Grand Rapids.

You wouldn't believe the amount of phenomenal prep work they did on the deck and hull. Done meticulously. I couldn't be more pleased with what they have done so far.

I struggled a little deciding on the colors. You look at color chips that are about the size of a postage stamp, and then try to imagine what they would look like on the hull.

I have no idea how Parnell was able to pull everything together he did with Sweet Cheekz. I wrestled with TWO colors. Sweet Cheekz has about a bajillion! And it looks spectacular.

And then the awesome blue he picked for the GT-21. You guys aren't going to believe that boat when you see it. Every bit as awesome as the 16, only with a couple HUNDRED more horsepower!

Oh yeah, I am struggling with my color choice as well. I totally understand your problems- and I have more than 2 colors, went to paintshops as well, they were quiet helpful...

[Sweet Cheekz]

People never understand if they have not done it how much work it is to pick a paint job even if its traditional. A blank boat is a little intimidating because you get one shot and the choices are endless. Artists are truely amazing Looks great Bill

Parnell

[mattyboy]

i missed it I had to go back and look does look very nice.

this is my take on painting a classic

if you are going custom like Mick,Parnell pick a group of colors that work together which they did as the boats are awesome.

if you are taking the classic scheme all white with stripes, solid hull and deck with stripes or white bottom solid color sides white deck with solid color stripe. PICK a shade of a color that was used on that era boat.

let me see if i can explain.

if you took Pearson's pumpkin paint scheme and put it on a 22 or a minx to me it would be out of place as they made no solid bottom 22 or minx in orange.

new paints don't cut it for me either I saw a 16 with mystique paint on the sides and deck stripe you know the paint that changes color at different angles not a good look IMO

another would be putting a late 80's early 90's teal on 60 70's classic, turqoise was used mint green but not that teal

Bill with that deck either an all yellow hull with white stripes or yellow over white hull would look awesome and very classic even though it might not be the exact shade of yellow.

Parnell has done the same with the GT it looks awesome as well.

again this is my take on paint I would never gel a boat that I planned on keeping even with the pros and cons of each I just hate buffing but again that is just me. I have never had a gelled classic ;)

[gcarter]

Anyone remember the emerald green 22C w/the emerald green suede upholstery?????????? :wink:

Somehow, I just can't get that out of my mind! :nilly::boggled:

[mattyboy]

Anyone remember the emerald green 22C w/the emerald green suede upholstery?????????? :wink:

Somehow, I just can't get that out of my mind! :nilly::boggled:


ummm George to be correct it was Gucci Green and yes I remember it

don't recall the green interior it was gray when i saw it but i seen stranger things the best was the 16 with the grab rail on backwards probably pretty functional for passengers but looked like a right foot in a left shoe

[gcarter]

ummm George to be correct it was Gucci Green and yes I remember it

don't recall the green interior it was gray when i saw it but i seen stranger things the best was the 16 with the grab rail on backwards probably pretty functional for passengers but looked like a right foot in a left shoe

You actually saw it????? :boggled:

I feel sorry for you!

[Kirbyvv]

I did actually see it. A friend picked it up in Alex Bay, had it on Lake George for 1 season, then took it to Colorado. His original plan had been to restore it to the original color, but like many of us, had too many projects. I'll say that green was.....really green.

But Bill's yellow looks great and very classy on the 16. Someday maybe mine will look as good, but for now I'll keep buffing the gel.

[Just Say N20]

Matty, I really did struggle with this. My previous two classics were white with the Carolina Blue (or baby blue, or robin's egg blue, whatever they called it) deck stripes and sides.

I REALLY like that color combination, but also wanted to try something different. For some reason the yellow boats have always caught my eye. The green upholstery in this boat is "serviceable" for a couple of years, which is about how long it is going to take to recover from this project. White and Blue was not going to work with the green upholstery, but white and yellow could work.

I will admit the yellow isn't even close to period correct. I saw a LOT of the Inca Gold as we were prepping the boat, and it looked like a color that wasn't sure what color it wanted to be, so I didn't want to go in that direction.

I am also partial to white hulled boats with colored sides, so this is what I am doing. The sides will be yellow, and have a 2" black accent stripe along the bottom of the yellow, leaving 1/2" of yellow side showing below the black strip.

I really liked how the black pin stripes on the sides of the deck stripe make the yellow "snap," and figured it would work on the sides too. I was initially going to have a white accent stripe on the sides, but realized I wasn't going for the subtle look with this, and wanted it to really pop.

I just hope it doesn't look too much like a bumble-bee when it is done. :eek:

The other reason I felt comfortable with the non-period correct colors is that I made other decisions away from originality. The boat already had been upgraded to a 310 hp Volvo and the 290 outdrive. I pecked around to trying and find a period correct Morse shifter, and found a couple, but decided I really wanted to have the outdrive trim control in the throttle lever, so I went with a modern Teleflex unit (SL3 w/Trim) because it looked clean to me and could be mounted on the port side.

Then there was the issue of gas fill location. I have never been able to reach it when the boat is on the trailer, and didn't like climbing on the deck when filling at a dock, so I decided to move it to the port side up about a foot in front of the cockpit.

I added some REX Marine inline silencers which are supposed to reduce the noise level by 10dB - 12dB, because I heard Earl got stopped and it measured 94dB. That is too loud for Michigan.

I really use my boats, and figured I would do a mild equivalent of putting a 1962 Corvette body on a 2010 Vette; the best of both worlds with old school looks and modern functionality.

Purists, I ask for your understanding.

[Sweet Cheekz]

Bill I think it looks great but no one will accuse me of being a purist, although I do love classic Donzi's. Pearsons boat is magnificant and I can't wait for that yellow Hornet!

Matty thanks for the compliments. I have to agree on the paint that changes color. I have never personally seen a boat with that chromatic paint where there were some shades, as it turned colors, that were not hideous. Hope no one on here has one, no offense but it seems to go thru a few bad ones on the way to a few good ones. I have seen the red go thru this dull burnt orange color that was not good. Very odd in my mind.

Parnell

[Walt. H.]

Bill the color combo looks great as mentioned before, and whether it'll look like a bumble bee or not isn't a bad thing.
Anyway because you could always add a Dodge Rumble Bee badge logo minus the Dodge and replace it Donzi for a kool muscle boat effect in the center stripe.....:)
I also bet you'll re-think in a few weeks instead of three years about not keeping the green interior since you're no longer painting the side of the hull green and figure out a way dollar wise for a cool looking white/yellow matching seat combo as well, whether it be two tone or just the trim piping in yellow it will set your paint scheme off perfect! :yes:

[Just Say N20]

Suggestions please.

This is what the engine looks like after almost 2 hours of spraying GUNK degreaser and scraping.

I couldn't bring myself to take pictures of it before I started.

I was also absolutely delighted to see the repair done to one of the heads.

I have never seen anything that actually ran, that was such a mess.

What is the next step, keeping in mind that I'm about out of $$$$.

I already have new valve covers/gaskets, a new oil pan and gaskets, and a new mechanical marine fuel pump, as well as a remote oil filter kit. I was NOT planning to take the heads off because the engine ran right up to 5,000 rpms with the old school Volvo aluminum prop.

[gcarter]

[quote=Just Say N20;564253]What is the next step, keeping in mind that I'm about out of $$$$.quote]

You have company!!!!!!!:confused:
I've been out of money ffor months.

[mrfixxall]

looking at cylinder 5 exhaust port is looking like theirs something wrong with that cylinder..also judging from the jb weld i would definitely take the engine apart or find a better looking/running engine..

[Just Say N20]

mrfixxall,

This engine, back in the day (1987) was alleged to be a 310 hp/350 Chevy Volvo.

If I take it apart, it is most likely going to need new heads. A JB Weld repair is probably just an indicator of other fun things going on. A magna-flux would probably show up more spiderweb cracks than a haunted house.

I have no idea, but I guess you can strip everything out of the block and bead blast it, or something to clean it up. You could re-use the internals and use new bearings. Or maybe not. If things look OK inside, can you reuse rings, or should you have it "honed" and install new rings?

[MOP]

I don't know looking into #5 looks like you doused it with cleaner making it look bad in the other shot, that spit and glue repair I have seen more then once. We over a couple years around that time had several heads that had weepy castings in that same area, I never liked gooping them. I liked swapping the head out but some were to cheap, with them a little DayGlo to make sure it was nothing more then the usual pin hole. If it was a tiny one I would drill it and tap it, a screw with a dab of sealer looks a whole lot better then smeared turds. IMO that is what you have there don't be digging in your pocket to quickly!

[Christian]

how much could a good set of heads cost. you up the reliability and lesson your stress.

Get a dvd on how to rebuild. and refresh your motor with a set of new heads and bearings.

your going to put all that work into paint and hull and cheap out on the motor? you will be kicking yourself when your in the middle of the lake with a broken engine. Do the project right

Christian M. DelCollo
cdelcollo@gmail.com
215.510.8007

[mrfixxall]

mrfixxall,

This engine, back in the day (1987) was alleged to be a 310 hp/350 Chevy Volvo.

If I take it apart, it is most likely going to need new heads. A JB Weld repair is probably just an indicator of other fun things going on. A magna-flux would probably show up more spiderweb cracks than a haunted house.

I have no idea, but I guess you can strip everything out of the block and bead blast it, or something to clean it up. You could re-use the internals and use new bearings. Or maybe not. If things look OK inside, can you reuse rings, or should you have it "honed" and install new rings?


i wouldn't reuse the rings,,and for honing that would depend if the cylinders were egg shaped..i jumped to conclusion.i see the pic of what mop said,i saw that cylinder 5 had a dark look to it so i assumed it was bad..looking at the other pics it appears to be the gunk engine cleaner..if you say the engine ran good i would just wire wheel all the rust the best you could and paint the engine and use it until it gives you problems then replace it when you have some extra cash..

[Sweet Cheekz]

Wise words from Mr Fixall

[fogducker III]

Just a thought, was a compression test done when it was running before it was removed? It would be a shame to clean it all up and install it and find you have to pull it out again right away...?

You have done such a nice job on the hull etc that it would almost be worth it to hold off a little until the $$$ situation gets better and you can refresh that block and replace the heads if magnaflux justifies it...trust me, I DO understand the $$$ situation as well as the urge to get a boat running......:yes: Good luck either way you decide......:)

[zelatore]

[quote=Just Say N20;564253]What is the next step, keeping in mind that I'm about out of $$$$.quote]

You have company!!!!!!!:confused:
I've been out of money ffor months.

I'll take a stool at that bar too...

[axelkloehn]

[quote=gcarter;564255]

I'll take a stool at that bar too...


:yes::yes::yes:

[Walt. H.]

I don't know looking into #5 looks like you doused it with cleaner making it look bad in the other shot, that spit and glue repair I have seen more then once. We over a couple years around that time had several heads that had weepy castings in that same area, I never liked gooping them. I liked swapping the head out but some were to cheap, with them a little DayGlo to make sure it was nothing more then the usual pin hole. If it was a tiny one I would drill it and tap it, a screw with a dab of sealer looks a whole lot better then smeared turds. IMO that is what you have there don't be digging in your pocket to quickly!

i wouldn't reuse the rings,,and for honing that would depend if the cylinders were egg shaped..i jumped to conclusion.i see the pic of what mop said,i saw that cylinder 5 had a dark look to it so i assumed it was bad..looking at the other pics it appears to be the gunk engine cleaner..if you say the engine ran good i would just wire wheel all the rust the best you could and paint the engine and use it until it gives you problems then replace it when you have some extra cash..
Bill I Tuned in a little late but i'd avise exactly what Mop & Fix said, and when the time and money arrives I would look for another complete long block of your choice. I wouldn't even bother removing a valve cover screw on the rusty salted engine block let alone entertain pulling head bolts and that nasty looking oil pan, you'll only wind up wasting money - breaking bolts and castings on a eng block that has lost it structual integratity due to being badly rusted thru, i'm surprised you got the exh manifolds off.

Rome wasn't built in a day so just take your time looking for a donor engine and cruise on your 38ft Carver this season..

[Just Say N20]

I wouldn't even bother removing . . .that nasty looking oil pan, you'll only wind up wasting money - breaking bolts. . .

Point taken.

However, the oil pan was rusted through and was leaking, so it needed to come off, EVEN BEFORE the engine fell over, and a piece on steel punched a hole through it.

I have no choice but to replace the pan. :wrench:

Fun to follow.

[gcarter]

Frequently there are new SBC marine oil pans on ebay.

[Walt. H.]

Point taken.
However, the oil pan was rusted through and was leaking, so it needed to come off, EVEN BEFORE the engine fell over, and a piece on steel punched a hole through it.
I have no choice but to replace the pan. :wrench:
Fun to follow.
Ouch!
See' I knew it, and now the my as well replace syndrome has started.... :nilly:

[CaribouLou]

[quote=gcarter;564255]

I'll take a stool at that bar too...


Welcome to my bar boys.....:yes: I'm the :kingme: of out of $ right now...

[Just Say N20]

Do I need a reservation, or will someone just save me a spot? :yes:

Somewhere previously in this thread I believe I mentioned that the hole cut in the transom for the original outdrive was larger than what was needed for the 290 drive.

As a result, the two center transom shield mounting studs were only about 2/3 of a hole, so when the nuts were tightened, it crushed the wood.

Other than that the wood in the transom is solid, so I decided not to replace it.

So, as a solution I had a large "gasket" shaped piece of 3/8" steel cut. Once the mounting studs are through the transom, I will put this "collar" onto the studs, and tighten the entire thing down, giving a very secure purchase for all 6 of the bolts.

I'm very pleased with how it turned out. It was cut with a computer driven plasma cutter.

It isn't light.

[gcarter]

Looks good Bill!

[yeller]

Keep your eyes peeled for a Vortec 350. Doesn't have to be marine, lots more choice in the auto world. I don't buy into the 'has to marine' theory. Pick up a cheap one, put a hone in a drill and hone the cylinders, slap in new rings and bearings...and you've got yourself a great engine.

[CaribouLou]

Do I need a reservation, or will someone just save me a spot? :yes:
.



PM me your address, I'll get your VIP pass in the mail :yes:


That paint has me having happy dreams at night....one day I'll own a boat that pretty :crossfing:

[Walt. H.]

Keep your eyes peeled for a Vortec 350. Doesn't have to be marine, lots more choice in the auto world. I don't buy into the 'has to marine' theory. Pick up a cheap one, put a hone in a drill and hone the cylinders, slap in new rings and bearings...and you've got yourself a great engine.
Yeller,
The marine thing is due to the engine oil and coolant temperature heats up at drastically different rate then in a automobile, and because of that the pistons expand faster then the block can and because of that if you don't have the extra piston to wall and ring clearances you're going to have an interference seizing piston to cyl wall fit.
The only time you really hear an auto engine working out ok in a boat is when its a well used worn salvage yard motor, and the other thing is brass freeze plugs are used instead of tinned plated steel which are easily replaced.
I imagine though a closed cooling system might allow a fresh crate motor to live a long life w/o any modifications........

[yeller]

Yeller,
The marine thing is due to the engine oil and coolant temperature heats up at drastically different rate then in a automobile, and because of that the pistons expand faster then the block can and because of that if you don't have the extra piston to wall and ring clearances you're going to have an interference seizing piston to cyl wall fit...
I have to disagree with that. It may lose some power because the clearance is tighter, but I've never experienced or heard of one seizing because of it.

If you pick up a cheap motor, it'll be worn in enough to rev freely and a new set of rings/bearings (and possible cam/lifters) will give you a great motor at a minimal cost. I'm speaking from personal experience and from hanging around cheap-a$$ boaters for years.

[mattyboy]

Bill,

an all white bilge with a little yellow speckle and a nice yellow sbc would look awesome in it ;)

just like me I know the bar, i am a regular there just like Norm when I walk in they all know and shout my my name ;)

so broke I can't pay attention ;)

[Walt. H.]

Bill,
Matty is Spot On with his engine bay color suggestion and all you need to do to get that effect is to dip a 5 inch brush loaded with yellow paint and thrust it in one hand in the direction you want it to go as you come up with your other hand striking your wrist causing the paint to splatter off the brush.

Yeller,
were pretty much on the same page if you caught where I wrote in my above post about using a salvage yard used engine, but you're in error when you said a engine with tighter clearances may lose some power. Actually its the other way around, the tighter the tolerances the greater the engine will make h/p because very little to nothing is getting past the piston rings, but it will have a very short life if its too tight.
Too much friction causes heat and heat will kill the lubrication and the rest is history.........
So when you do rebuild or just freshen up an engine with new rings and bearings you'll find that the suggested piston to cyl, wall spec's are different including the ring end gaps for a boat eng verses the same engine going back into a car or truck, and of course the suggested camshaft to use will also differ.
Naturally a used block after being honed will have that extra required piston to cyl wall clearance with also re-using the original used pistons, and as long as the ring end gaps are on the max clearance end allowed, thats usually when an off the shelf remanufactured auto engine will not have any negative issues performing duties as a marine engine.
Hopefully brass freeze plugs were also installed especially if used in salt water and at least having a low rpm truck / RV cam in place will give it the required low to mid rpm range torque & h/p.

Now back to the paint color, I agree that a Yellow block & cyl heads will stand out and POP against the contrasting white with the splatter yellow engine bay back ground as a winning combination..:yes:

[Greg Guimond]

Do I need a reservation, or will someone just save me a spot? :yes:

Somewhere previously in this thread I believe I mentioned that the hole cut in the transom for the original outdrive was larger than what was needed for the 290 drive.

As a result, the two center transom shield mounting studs were only about 2/3 of a hole, so when the nuts were tightened, it crushed the wood.

Other than that the wood in the transom is solid, so I decided not to replace it.

So, as a solution I had a large "gasket" shaped piece of 3/8" steel cut. Once the mounting studs are through the transom, I will put this "collar" onto the studs, and tighten the entire thing down, giving a very secure purchase for all 6 of the bolts.

I'm very pleased with how it turned out. It was cut with a computer driven plasma cutter.

It isn't light.


That is a sharp piece of metal work. PM me the shop that did it when you can.

[mattyboy]

Bill,

when we did the black and yellow cig. we did an all white bilge with black and yellow speckles. we painted the sbc yellow it including the original corvette valve covers then sanded the fins on them for a nice accent. with the black and stainless finish on the Stainless Marine risers it looks really nice. we are getting the cig ready for the water tonight I'll take some pics

[Just Say N20]

More fun!

They didn't paint it exactly like I wanted, but I think it looks great. I think I actually like it better.

The whole transom was supposed to yellow, and below the black accent line was also supposed to be about 1/2" of yellow.

I really like this better, even though it isn't "correct."

Sorry about the quality, they are cell phone pictures.

[Just Say N20]

Bill,

when we did the black and yellow cig. we did an all white bilge with black and yellow speckles. we painted the sbc yellow it including the original corvette valve covers then sanded the fins on them for a nice accent. with the black and stainless finish on the Stainless Marine risers it looks really nice. we are getting the cig ready for the water tonight I'll take some pics


I very much like the idea. I bought white bilge-kote for the bilge. The speckly idea sounds good. How would one do this, again?

[Sweet Cheekz]

Looks great Bill
Well done They are doing a very nice job just like you thought

Parnell

[Just Say N20]

Parnell, coming from you, that means a lot!

Thanks.

Slowly coming together, but there is still a LOT to do on the engine.

[gcarter]

That's some purty paint Bill.
What is it exactly?

[mattyboy]

Bill
very nice with the black water stripe and pinstripe, take some old school SW B&W gauges and even a black covico wheel and it will tie it all together.

[Just Say N20]

So far, I am going to re-use the Volvo gauges. They are black face/white letter VDO, and I found a matching speedometer.

The boat also has a black, 3 spoke Teleflex steering wheel.

My wife thinks we should call it "Bumble."

George, I will have to ask the painter what paint it is. It is a 2-part paint, and I selected the color out of a DuPont color book. I know we ended up selecting a Suzuki White, and Suzuki Yellow. I looked at a LOT of yellows; Corvette, Viper, some other GM yellows, and narrowed it down to about 5. Once I looked at them in direct sunshine, it was pretty easy to land on this one.

[Just Say N20]

Got the tank all cleaned up, and it looks good.

I didn't find any trouble spots, so back in the boat it will go.

I spoke with a couple of aluminum tank manufacturers, and they both told me to leave the tank bare. One told me he has been building marine aluminum tanks for 30 years, and has never had a failure. He strongly believed that paint over the aluminum created the potential for trapping condensation moisture, that would normally evaporate off the tank.

[Greg Guimond]

Bill, that paint looks awesome! Makes a certain someone with a certain project think! Also, if you would not mind what are the dimensions on that tank?

[axelkloehn]

Bumble? That's funny....

Bill, tank looks good and your paint is awesome. That yellow in the sun will make you wear shades if it is the Suzuki motorbike yellow :cool::cool::cool:

[Just Say N20]

Greg,

Below are the outside dimensions of the tank, as best I could do. The edges are all rounded from the welds. If I had a CAD program, I would have done this nicely as a line drawing. I don't, so the measurements have been added to the pictures.

The sides of the tank are vertical and parallel, so they fit inside the stringer, even though they don't look it in one of the pictures.

My tank was custom built in 1995, according to the sticker, and holds 24 gallons. It fits with about 1/4" of clearance on each side, and about 3/8" clearance in front and back of the "mini-bulkheads" in the boat. My boat is a 1967.

Parnell's 1979 16 came with a 42 gallon tank, that if I remember correctly is 53" long, as opposed to the 37-3/4" length of mine, so his tank came farther back into the space under the cockpit. I didn't want to move the bulkhead back, so I reused this tank.

This tank was resting on (4) strips of 1/4" thick black rubber, and this raised the tank to a height that the mounting tabs are almost at the very top of the stringer. It was not foamed in.

Also, you can see the fuel withdrawal comes out of the side of the back of the tank. I had this changed, because the original top location, didn't work. The fitting was screwed into the top of the tank, and made an immediate 90 angle, but it was still too tall, and actually wore a hole completely through the floor right next to the edge of the ski-locker lip.

I am going to create a loop upwards in the fuel line that is higher than the top of the tank to compensate for the "below-the-top-of-the-tank" fuel outlet.

[Just Say N20]

The "spacer-gasket" turned out very well.

I did no prep on this, simply took it and had it powder coated ($20). They were doing a run of high-gloss black, which I thought would be great with the colors of the boat.

[Greg Guimond]

Bill, thanks for the effort and the info, it is very helpful :yes:

[Just Say N20]

I spoke with the paint shop. I should be able to bring the boat home by the end of the week!

Still lots of work to do, as I will be basically rigging a new hull from almost scratch. New gauge holes to drill in that pristine dash, new throttle cutout, new steering wheel mounting hole, figuring out all the wiring mess, and dealing with the mess (aesthetically) of an engine.

I had a replacement stainless steel grab rail bent, as the original aluminum was badly beat up, and was actually in 2 pieces. I found replacements for all the original style mounting hardware, and put those nifty threaded mounting blocks on the underside of the deck, so you can remove the grab bar without having to hurt yourself or take the deck off.

I'm looking forward to this next phase of the project.

[Just Say N20]

I pulled off the valve covers which were leaking in the center on both sides.

On the exhaust manifold gaskets one was completely burned through between the center two cylinders.

The intake manifold gasket also looked like it was leaking in the center hole.

If the intake was leaking, at the holes shown, what does that mean, and how much of a problem was it?

Obviously, I'm somewhat of an engine neophyte.

[mrfixxall]

I pulled off the valve covers which were leaking in the center on both sides.

On the exhaust manifold gaskets one was completely burned through between the center two cylinders.

The intake manifold gasket also looked like it was leaking in the center hole.

If the intake was leaking, at the holes shown, what does that mean, and how much of a problem was it?

Obviously, I'm somewhat of an engine neophyte.


If the intake was leaking at the center holes its because the person that installed the intake didn't seal the bolts with siclone sealer,the center hole is exhaust gas's that heat up the intake,i usually use the steel pluge supplyed with the intake set and plug them off,not needed for the summer months..

just make sure you seal all the bolts with sealer so they dont leak oul or water out of them..

[Just Say N20]

Thank you.

Most of the bolts I pulled out were absolutely black and sooty looking.

Is there a sealant or something that I can apply to them before putting them back in?

Actually, because of the mega-rusting that is going on, I believe I'm going to replace all the bolts.

[axelkloehn]

Bill, looks like you have the same issue I am dealing with :boggled:

[gcarter]

Teflon sealer is widely reccomended...head bolts, etc.

[Walt. H.]

Thank you.
Most of the bolts I pulled out were absolutely black and sooty looking.
Is there a sealant or something that I can apply to them before putting them back in?
Actually, because of the mega-rusting that is going on, I believe I'm going to replace all the bolts.
Bill,
Permatex makes a high temp RTV silicon sealer that is recommended for automotive header bolts and gaskets, so that would also be good to use for those two intake manifold bolts on each side that are adjacent to the exh crossover ports.
Look for a gold colored squeeze tube that says Permatex High Temperature RTV sealant in any auto parts store, the actual stuff inside is orange in color and its good for something like 1200 deg's.

[BUIZILLA]

Bill,
Permatex makes a high temp RTV silicon sealer that is recommended for automotive header bolts and gaskets, so that would also be good to use for those two intake manifold bolts on each side that are adjacent to the exh crossover ports.
Look for a gold colored squeeze tube that says Permatex High Temperature RTV sealant in any auto parts store, the actual stuff inside is orange in color and its good for something like 1200 deg's. they have ultra copper, and ultra black, both do the same and are rated the same..

[Just Say N20]

Bill, looks like you have the same issue I am dealing with :boggled:

At least mine had gaskets! My engine ran OK when I took it out for the 12 minutes I ran it. The carb was bad on the low end, which could have been a storage/gas issue.

When I opened the engine hatch, it was pretty smokey, from oil being burned in a whole variety of places. If anyone was watching from a distance when I opened the hatch, I'm sure they were concerned from all the smoke that rose up out of the engine compartment. At least it was "white" smoke.

[Just Say N20]

Hull is coming home tonight, and then the fun work begins!

[MDonziM]

Hull is coming home tonight, and then the fun work begins!

Thats awsome Bill, warms my heart. Keep up the good work.

Marshall

[Just Say N20]

That's awesome Bill, warms my heart. Keep up the good work.

Marshall

Thanks Marshall!

It is looking like it is going to be very nice when done. It won't be a rocket ship like what you currently have, but that was never the goal.

Last major project is finishing cleaning up the engine.

[Ghost]

Looking mightly good.

[yeller]

It won't be a rocket ship like what you currently have...
I wouldn't be too sure about that......after all, you painted it in the fastest color. :yes:


Looks great!