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View Full Version : Procharger guys...I have an oil question.



yeller
06-20-2009, 12:21 AM
I figure I should change the oil in my M1 Procharger. I realize I should have done this a long time ago so no need to harass me. I accept (and have learned to embrace) my stupidity. :bonk:

Besides the OEM stuff, what type oil can I use in the Procharger.

Also, how do I determine the correct level. I saw what looks like a plug on the bottom, one on the top, and then two between that. I assumed the bottom is for draining and the top for filling, and one of the other two for determining the full limit.....but which one....or do I have it all wrong?

MOP
06-20-2009, 08:48 AM
I would love to see Mario chime in here, he builds radical turbo race not drag car engines. He would be one of the few that should give a recommendation.

Phil

BigGrizzly
06-20-2009, 09:07 AM
I am of no help because I only use oil fed and not self contained Prochargers, other then that I believe it takes one bottle. I use this type because it runs cooler and I don't have to remember when I changed it. Even with this you don't want to leave your hand on it too long after a hard run.

The Hedgehog
06-20-2009, 09:22 AM
Use the Procharger oil.

The drain plug is on the bottom. Look for fuzz on it like changing drive oil. It you find big chunks I would send it in to be inspected. It should be like graphite between your fingers but has more of a silver look.

It take one bottle and there is a little dipstick thingy on the top.

What Grizz said about burning your hand. I actually like to burn my leg better on the blower when I jump back in the 26 to look at something:bonk:

BigGrizzly
06-20-2009, 09:37 AM
OH so that is why you do that to get a jump start on your tan:nilly:. I learned the hard way too. BTW no air filter and paper towels don't mix either. Someone I know lost a timing light chord too in an M1.

MOP
06-20-2009, 10:03 AM
I have wondered why the pro chargers in general are not crank case fed, I know some are and most the stuff I worked on was. The self contained oil has to run some hot, I would think leading to premature failure. I have also thought why not put chiller before and after the charger, cooler air running through the entire tract should boost performance and help to keep the turbos temp down. It would also be a far more robust plumbers nightmare!!!

BigGrizzly
06-20-2009, 10:35 AM
MOP, they are crank case fed. They also offer a self contained unit which they push because they have had trouble with guys getting oil from the wrong place and oil pan leaks from the drains on some applications.

The Hedgehog
06-20-2009, 10:44 AM
FYI, I was told that is the same blower oil that they use in a whipple. I say use their stuff because if there are any problems they can not blame you for using another oil. Not that you would not have to pay anyway.

The Hedgehog
06-20-2009, 11:01 AM
I have wondered why the pro chargers in general are not crank case fed, I know some are and most the stuff I worked on was. The self contained oil has to run some hot, I would think leading to premature failure. I have also though why not put chiller before and after the charger, cooler air running through the entire tract should boost performance and help to keep the turbos temp down. It would also be a far more robust plumbers nightmare!!!

My engine compartment is not as small as a 22 but it does heat up some. I actually think that my next install (happening next week) will clean up my compartment some. If it does, I am considering a few things that may make my engine look like a HVAC man on acid took over.

I could always run a precooler with an ice box:popcorn: And yes, I have mapped this idea out for grins (not that I am going to pull the trigger on it or anything).

yeller
06-20-2009, 12:41 PM
Thanks for the response. No suggestions at all then about using a different oil? I'd use their oil if it was readily available, but I'm not going to be able to find it around here and would have to mail order it. I highly doubt Procharger gets a special oil made just for them.

BUIZILLA
06-20-2009, 01:49 PM
Hedgey... what was the EXACT reason they gave you for the compressor side failure?

and what did they attribute it to?

The Hedgehog
06-20-2009, 02:15 PM
Hedgey... what was the EXACT reason they gave you for the compressor side failure?

and what did they attribute it to?

They said it was a failure in the ball bearings. We got into the whole back and forth about boost and blow off valves. The compressor itself is billet and can handle over 30 lbs of boost. They agreed that it was not overdriven and did not need a blow off valve. We revisited the tension issue again and they again said that should not have been the problem. I am still thinking that Randy has a point about the 12 rib belt requiring less tension. Once I get well from writing all of these checks I will probably spend the $750 to upgrade to a 12 rib.

Eddie's theory was that when the tensioner bound during the dyno session it stressed the bearings. They run on a pretty tight tolerance to handle 45,000-54,000 RPM. I put 30 hours on it afterwards but Eddie thinks the damage had been done. He rebuilt the tensioner after it bound and it was happy. I bet the tensioner gets a good going over on Tuesday.

Procharger recommends changing the oil at 100 hours. I had 30 hours on that oil but was actually going to change it anyway. In this case it would not have made a difference.

So, I have new bearings, seals, compressor, and compressor backing plate. The gears were fine. I bought a new cooler since it was impossible to tell if we got all the metal out without tearing it open. Eddie is a clean fanatic. When bad things happen in motors he replaces anything he feels he can not adequately clean. He says he had learned a few expensive lessons about not replacing tranny coolers, oil coolers and drive gears that have been involved in some nice breakage.

Eddie takes this kind of stuff personal. He used my blower in the build but has spent hours mulling over the failure. I have a couple of friends that told me that he spent a good bit of time talking it over with them.

BUIZILLA
06-20-2009, 02:17 PM
i'm not buying the ball bearing failure...

The Hedgehog
06-20-2009, 03:16 PM
i'm not buying the ball bearing failure...

What do you think?

BUIZILLA
06-20-2009, 03:20 PM
where's the defective bearing?

The Hedgehog
06-20-2009, 03:29 PM
where's the defective bearing?

I will get you a diagram.

They have more than one set.

BUIZILLA
06-20-2009, 03:31 PM
if they have several, I would like to see the actual failed part...

The Hedgehog
06-20-2009, 09:49 PM
if they have several, I would like to see the actual failed part...

Me too.

It falls into the list of attachments I will be sending to ATI in my letter.

I will let you know.

BigGrizzly
06-21-2009, 09:05 AM
After seeing this failure and knowing the tight tolerance of this M3 blower vs the M1, which has thicker blades. I would go with an foreign object. As for Eddie's theory, it may have skidded a ball but I seriously doubt it. I am not a blower freak, Garry is. What I do know is that there are very few failures of these blowers. a month ago we dropped a turbo blower on a twin turbo LS! type motor on the dyno for no apparent reason. The turbo looks similar to the Procharger M3 blower.

The Hedgehog
06-21-2009, 09:41 AM
After seeing this failure and knowing the tight tolerance of this M3 blower vs the M1, which has thicker blades. I would go with an foreign object. As for Eddie's theory, it may have skidded a ball but I seriously doubt it. I am not a blower freak, Garry is. What I do know is that there are very few failures of these blowers. a month ago we dropped a turbo blower on a twin turbo LS! type motor on the dyno for no apparent reason. The turbo looks similar to the Procharger M3 blower.

There are lots of unknowns here and I will strive to get a good answer.

I can see how skidding a bearing on something that spins that fast being a problem over time.

The skidded bearing does not address where the primary failure took place and that was at the compressor. Those bearings are not directly affected by the pulley shaft. They are indirectly impacted but not directly impacted.

My personal theory gets back to the seal. This explains why my plugs were fowling early on. After I got my plugs replaced, I was still able to pull 7 lbs of boost and that was not WFO. Had I ingested something and tore off a blade I doubt I would have been able to pull boost and run another 20 miles. I did not see anything missing from the blades when I stopped to change plugs. When I changed the plugs, I gave the engine a good look over before hand to see if any other problems existed. That included a look at the fuel hoses, seals and gasket that were out in the open, belts and connections and the induction system (including the blower). I did not pull the blower hoses though. Eddie had just retuned the boat and I wanted to make sure that nothing else was amiss BEFORE I started yanking the hot plugs. I learned a long time ago that leaks in the induction system (ie boost gauge taps and blower hoses) can drop boost and cause a boat to run rich. There was NOTHING loose and no loose items in the engine compartment. Even if I failed to see something missing, I would imagine a that minus a blade or chunk of blade at 45,000 rpm it would have been way out of balance and would have been over pretty quickly. Plus it would not have easily made 7 lbs of boost. The boat continued to run like it was fat during that time and the blower got louder. I chalked up the loud blower up to that fact that I had not been in the boat for a while. Anyone that knows the M-3 knows it clatters around. I think that it continued to bleed oil until it overheated and started coming apart. The blades let go when I was spinning the engine about 3,000 rpm.

When Tex sent his blower to ATI one of his seals was going out. He asked them what would happened if he had not caught it. They told him that it would have self destructed like another one that had recently come in. They did not know that Tex and I even knew each other.

What is wrong with that theory?

BUIZILLA
06-21-2009, 09:58 AM
the bearing failed before the seal did... IOW, the seal failure was a result of a/the bearing going away...

please email me a factual diagram

The Hedgehog
06-21-2009, 10:15 AM
Here is a pic of the front on a M-1 style.

Here is a link that shows a cutaway. I have a better diagram somewhere.

www.rpmoutlet.com/ati.htm

The Hedgehog
06-21-2009, 10:22 AM
the bearing failed before the seal did... IOW, the seal failure was a result of a/the bearing going away...

please email me a factual diagram

pm me your email add and I will sent you a good pdf

The Hedgehog
06-21-2009, 11:53 AM
Not really sure what was meant by the fired comment.

Here is a diagram of the blower. Now it is time for me to head back to the lake.

The Hedgehog
06-21-2009, 11:56 AM
Woops. It did not like the jpg conversion

BigGrizzly
06-22-2009, 03:30 PM
Realize guys the M1 is much smaller with thicker blades and do not look like a turbo charger of today. The M3 looks just like a turbocharger.with thinner blades.

The Hedgehog
06-22-2009, 03:42 PM
Realize guys the M1 is much smaller with thicker blades and do not look like a turbo charger of today. The M3 looks just like a turbocharger.with thinner blades.


And that M-3 is LOUD

BigGrizzly
06-22-2009, 03:49 PM
M1 is not loud at all. at first I though The M2 was broken, but not so. This still bothers me.

The Hedgehog
06-22-2009, 03:53 PM
M1 is not loud at all. at first I though The M2 was broken, but not so. This still bothers me.

You and me both sir. It whirs and clangs to the point that I had a hard time telling that it was broken. From the boat it gradually got louder and louder. That is why I did not notice it until it was too late. Kind of like slowly boiling a lobster.

zelatore
06-22-2009, 04:15 PM
And that M-3 is LOUD


You noticed that too? Good - I was worried there for a minute.:wink:

I found a way to make it really quite though. It's kinda like what you did, only more. Just take the whole motor out of the boat and put it in the garage. Not a sound...

The Hedgehog
06-22-2009, 06:05 PM
You noticed that too? Good - I was worried there for a minute.:wink:
I found a way to make it really quite though. It's kinda like what you did, only more. Just take the whole motor out of the boat and put it in the garage. Not a sound...

Me, I just snatched mine off and sent it away. :hangum:

SilverBack
06-22-2009, 06:44 PM
M1 is not loud at all. at first I though The M2 was broken, but not so. This still bothers me.


Grizz..you went with a M-2? I have heard that it is closer to a M-1. What is your take on the differences??

yeller
06-24-2009, 04:37 AM
Hey, what about me? I thought this was an oil question? :boggled:

Just kidding. I could care less, but fwiw I'm going to use GM supercharger oil. It's not a price decision, but an availability decision.

I also did some digging and this is what Whipple, Ford, GM, Mercedes, Austin, etc use in their superchargers (although under different names). It's far better than engine oil and seeing as Procharger has the same S/C's that are self-contained AND use the engine's oil, I feel confident in using this.

OK....that's it. You can now return to the normal thread derailment. :wink:

The Hedgehog
06-24-2009, 06:56 AM
Hey, what about me? I thought this was an oil question? :boggled:
Just kidding. I could care less, but fwiw I'm going to use GM supercharger oil. It's not a price decision, but an availability decision.
I also did some digging and this is what Whipple, Ford, GM, Mercedes, Austin, etc use in their superchargers (although under different names). It's far better than engine oil and seeing as Procharger has the same S/C's that are self-contained AND use the engine's oil, I feel confident in using this.
OK....that's it. You can now return to the normal thread derailment. :wink:

That will probably be fine.

BUIZILLA
06-24-2009, 09:10 AM
that GM oil has a wierd smell to it... :bonk:

yeller
06-24-2009, 01:29 PM
that GM oil has a wierd smell to it... :bonk:Hmmm.....never tried oil. For a quick high, I prefer to sniff gasoline. :nilly:

BigGrizzly
06-24-2009, 05:41 PM
First I don't use self contained SCs I use the pressure feed engine oil type, the SC runs cooler. As for GM VS Procharger oil, It is probably the same stuff. More on mine later after testing.

SilverBack
06-25-2009, 09:35 AM
First I don't use self contained SCs I use the pressure feed engine oil type, the SC runs cooler. As for GM VS Procharger oil, It is probably the same stuff. More on mine later after testing.


If the SC runs cooler what is the advantage of using motor oil from the engine?

VetteLT193
06-25-2009, 09:43 AM
If the SC runs cooler what is the advantage of using motor oil from the engine?

I think Grizz might have been trying to say that the engine oil will be cooler with an SC hooked up VS. the engine oil with the non self contained?

BlownCrewCab
06-25-2009, 09:48 AM
Hey, what about me? I thought this was an oil question? :boggled:

Just kidding. I could care less, but fwiw I'm going to use GM supercharger oil. It's not a price decision, but an availability decision.

I also did some digging and this is what Whipple, Ford, GM, Mercedes, Austin, etc use in their superchargers (although under different names). It's far better than engine oil and seeing as Procharger has the same S/C's that are self-contained AND use the engine's oil, I feel confident in using this.

OK....that's it. You can now return to the normal thread derailment. :wink:

Most of those (self contained oil resevior) you mentioned use redline oil, The self contained oil in the supercharger on my truck doesn't need to be changed for 100K miles, I would never let it go that far though, once oil looks dirty/different I change it.

The Hedgehog
06-25-2009, 10:43 AM
Most of those (self contained oil resevior) you mentioned use redline oil, The self contained oil in the supercharger on my truck doesn't need to be changed for 100K miles, I would never let it go that far though, once oil looks dirty/different I change it.

I would agree with the change idea.

And I get it spins much harder with more boost.

BigGrizzly
06-25-2009, 01:14 PM
Vette is correct. I was and am not a fan of self contained units. When a seal goes so does the oil and you don't know it.

The Hedgehog
06-25-2009, 01:30 PM
Vette is correct. I was and am not a fan of self contained units. When a seal goes so does the oil and you don't know it.

Oh you know it. If you have a good tune and all of a sudden the plugs go black and the engine starts sputtering, you know it is time to pull that coupler and have a look. It just takes me making an expensive mistake for everyone to think about it.:hangum:

You can feel free to remind me that my blower is a POS some more if you like though.:wink:

BigGrizzly
06-25-2009, 01:36 PM
POS has nothing to do with it. I just see things happen and Procharger is not the first by far. If you think that turbos don't go through your sadly mistaken. Itty bitty little pieces all over the place.

zelatore
06-25-2009, 02:02 PM
You can feel free to remind me that my blower is a POS some more if you like though.:wink:


Hey Hedge, you're blower's a PO....oh wait, I bought the same one. :yes:

The Hedgehog
06-25-2009, 04:16 PM
I think fishinsucks sabotaged it... :nilly: :nilly:
Anon
Troublemaker in the Southland :) :)

You may be on to something. He seems like such a nice guy. I really had a great time when he took me out in Indiana. He really gained my confidence but when I saw that spy pic of him.....well I knew.:flash:

The Hedgehog
06-25-2009, 04:18 PM
Hey Hedge, you're blower's a PO....oh wait, I bought the same one. :yes:

Oh well. Stuff does blow up and I can understand about the whole oil thing.

That does not exactly mean that we are sitting on a time bomb or anything. I was getting down on Procharger but was reminded yesterday that I could blow up a few more for the price of a whipple.

BigGrizzly
06-26-2009, 06:47 PM
Just imagine, when Eddie calls up with a question and they tell him he does not know what he is talking about. Heard this before.:yes:

SilverBack
06-26-2009, 08:48 PM
Oh well. Stuff does blow up and I can understand about the whole oil thing.

That does not exactly mean that we are sitting on a time bomb or anything. I was getting down on Procharger but was reminded yesterday that I could blow up a few more for the price of a whipple.


I think the whole self contained thing is way overblown anyway. It is the way things have gone. I think that battle has been fought already. It is like comparing fuel injection to a carburetor. A racing buddy of mine asked me the other day...would you rather have clean synthetic oil that is temperature stable at the temps that the Procharger will see or dirty engine oil that has blow by and carbon build up and all of those things that engine oil gets in it protecting your super charger. You can check your Procharger oil after 20 or 30 hours and it is as clean as the day you put it in there.

I think ATI has terrible customer service but they build a pretty good product.


















http://www.procharger.com/images/clear.gif

BigGrizzly
06-28-2009, 06:57 AM
As for the self contained thing and dirty oil thing Facts 1) The oil to all the pressure fed systems is directly after the oil filter. So if dirty oil gets into the Charger it gets in to the rod bearings and all and you have more problems then the supercharger. What filters does the oil in the self contained units? NOTHING Fact 2) is that the SCs are easier to install for the Garage jockey and less installation mistakes 3) Indisputable fact the SC units run a lot hotter then the pressurized ones, Heat kills bearings and seals. 3) the industry is NOT going in that direction. Blowers since the beginning have been pressurized. 4) If self contained and no filters were a good thing then cars would be like lawnmowers. In 1959 Chevy made 2500 engines without oil filters every one suffered bearing failures. Even ball bearings should be filtered if possible. Honda has been doing this since the 1960s. 5) Do you really think I would use a pressurized system if it were not better? I have more hours on a Procharged supercharged motor then 99.9% of the people in the country. Check the failures see for your self. I have.

The Hedgehog
06-28-2009, 09:54 PM
As for the self contained thing and dirty oil thing Facts 1) The oil to all the pressure fed systems is directly after the oil filter. So if dirty oil gets into the Charger it gets in to the rod bearings and all and you have more problems then the supercharger. What filters does the oil in the self contained units? NOTHING Fact 2) is that the SCs are easier to install for the Garage jockey and less installation mistakes 3) Indisputable fact the SC units run a lot hotter then the pressurized ones, Heat kills bearings and seals. 3) the industry is NOT going in that direction. Blowers since the beginning have been pressurized. 4) If self contained and no filters were a good thing then cars would be like lawnmowers. In 1959 Chevy made 2500 engines without oil filters every one suffered bearing failures. Even ball bearings should be filtered if possible. Honda has been doing this since the 1960s. 5) Do you really think I would use a pressurized system if it were not better? I have more hours on a Procharged supercharged motor then 99.9% of the people in the country. Check the failures see for your self. I have.

Oh ok. I will tell Eddie to call Honda so he can learn something. You know I was thinking that a 1,200 hp big block is a lot like a Honda. How many 1,200 hp's have you built? Oh yeah....none! He has dealt with many more Procharged motors than you have seen. Marc Boos has done even more.

Maybe you should call Dustin Whipple and tell him that all his SC units are getting ready to fail. He should probably get rid on his new SC 5.0 Whipples. Since they are SC.

Oh yeah. I have about 70 more hours on a M-3 than you and have done TWO engines with that. Up until a month ago you did not even know how they sound. Hell, it sounds like you had the same tuning issues I had. I was on stand by with Tex getting ready to send you some more pulleys. Did you forget about that? I guess that since you are an expert you don't like to talk about that.

Me, I tune Banks for a living. Boats, no, I pay to have that done but I do listen to my techys;

Yeah, My stuff broke. Many other have not. I am glad that you are so fortunate.

I think that you are a great guy but there is a difference between lack of tact and being direct. I have had nothing but good to say about your stuff.

Until you got a konrad, I thought that you were pissing in the wind with that old TRS but I kept that to myself.

You can publically slam on my stuff if it makes you happy. It is getting kind of old though. I really don;t know why you have such a problem with me or everyone else that does things this way. I have been NOTHING but supportive for you. That can change though. I spent 3 hours in a boat with one of your props this weekend. We can talk about that if you want.

I can appreciate your direct approach. But enough is enough.

SilverBack
06-29-2009, 06:58 AM
Oh ok. I will tell Eddie to call Honda so he can learn something. You know I was thinking that a 1,200 hp big block is a lot like a Honda. How many 1,200 hp's have you built? Oh yeah....none! He has dealt with many more Procharged motors than you have seen. Marc Boos has done even more.

Maybe you should call Dustin Whipple and tell him that all his SC units are getting ready to fail. He should probably get rid on his new SC 5.0 Whipples. Since they are SC.

Oh yeah. I have about 70 more hours on a M-3 than you and have done TWO engines with that. Up until a month ago you did not even know how they sound. Hell, it sounds like you had the same tuning issues I had. I was on stand by with Tex getting ready to send you some more pulleys. Did you forget about that? I guess that since you are an expert you don't like to talk about that.

My, I tune Banks for a living. Boats, no, I pay to have that done but I do listen to my techys;

Yeah, My stuff broke. Many other have not. I am glad that you are so fortunate.

I think that you are a great guy but there is a difference between lack of tact and being direct. I have had nothing but good to say about your stuff.

Until you got a konrad, I thought that you were pissing in the wind with that old TRS but I kept that to myself.

You can publically slam on my stuff if it makes you happy. It is getting kind of old though. I really don;t know why you have such a problem with me or everyone else that does things this way. I have been NOTHING but supportive for you. That can change though. I spent 3 hours in a boat with one of your props this weekend. We can talk about that if you want.

I can appreciate your direct approach. But enough is enough.

Welcome to my world!

The Hedgehog
06-29-2009, 09:30 AM
Welcome to my world!

Yeah, I get a little testy when my stuff gets put down time and again. Everyone has opinions and I am cool with that. Once is fine but time and again gets kind of old. I was told that I overspin my blower (twice) and that an SC blower won't hold up (twice). If I listened to everyone's opinion my stuff would be a mess. I can appreciate a different point of view but in the end I go with the person that I paid to get it done. In my situation I pay Eddie to tell me what to do. If he told me to scrap that blower and go with a none SC blower, I would have written that check without even blinking. He uses Whipple blowers in his motors. He spins them hard sometimes and if you pay for a whole engine from him, he even covers the blower in a failure. They are self contained. Sure some of the older Lysholm blowers failed but there were also many successes. Merc still uses them. The new huffers don't seem to have those problems. Eddie also has used many a Procharger so there is no lack of experience there.

There are always more than one way to do something but you have to pick your path and go your way. Getting told that there is another way is fine. Being told time and again that you went the wrong way was does get old though.

Maybe I sound a little hostile and that is not my intent but the allusion that I am just a shade tree guy and don't know what I am doing gets a little old. Yeah, I will turn a few wrenches to the extent that I have time or the knowledge to do it but beyond that I pay the pros and study what they do. I am not scared to admit that there is a bunch I don't know and that is why I pay those that do.

I don't have any hard feelings but would prefer not to hear all of this for a third time. When someone I respect tells me something, I listen. Do I do what they say? Maybe or maybe not. When they tell me over and over again, it makes me feel that they don't have any respect for my point of view.

In this case I really respect someone but I am getting the feeling that he does not really respect my point of view and I find that a little upsetting. It is a two way street and there are pros and cons to both. No I probably should not have gotten a little personal about the whole prop thing this weekend. My point there is that when I respect someone, I usually don't publicly air out something they have that does not work. Maybe it was not meant to be and that is that. I usually give quiet feedback to them directly and leave it at that.

mrfixxall
06-29-2009, 10:19 AM
WEll i look at it the viza verza way,what d you think would have happened to hedges motor if he had a oil line and the return line hooked up to his engines oiling system? i bet not only would his procharger would be in the shop but also his engine..all the little pieces would be in his engine as well and it would be getting torn down and cleaned..Now i think it woul be cool if procharger had its own water cooled oil tank that circulated the oil through out the procharger system:yes:

The Hedgehog
06-29-2009, 10:56 AM
WEll i look at it the viza verza way,what d you think would have happened to hedges motor if he had a oil line and the return line hooked up to his engines oiling system? i bet not only would his procharger would be in the shop but also his engine..all the little pieces would be in his engine as well and it would be getting torn down and cleaned..Now i think it woul be cool if procharger had its own water cooled oil tank that circulated the oil through out the procharger system:yes:

Yes, Tex and I were talking about that very possibility this weekend. That oil would have bled down pretty quick too and the pieces of metal all moving around in the engine.....:eek:

A cooled housing on the blower would make a lot of sense. You could tap in off the intercooler lines. I could see that being good for a bunch of reasons.

SilverBack
06-29-2009, 11:03 AM
Yeah, I get a little testy when my stuff gets put down time and again. Everyone has opinions and I am cool with that. Once is fine but time and again gets kind of old. I was told that I overspin my blower (twice) and that an SC blower won't hold up (twice). If I listened to everyone's opinion my stuff would be a mess. I can appreciate a different point of view but in the end I go with the person that I paid to get it done. In my situation I pay Eddie to tell me what to do. If he told me to scrap that blower and go with a none SC blower, I would have written that check without even blinking. He uses Whipple blowers in his motors. He spins them hard sometimes and if you pay for a whole engine from him, he even covers the blower in a failure. They are self contained. Sure some of the older Lysholm blowers failed but there were also many successes. Merc still uses them. The new huffers don't seem to have those problems. Eddie also has used many a Procharger so there is no lack of experience there.

There are always more than one way to do something but you have to pick your path and go your way. Getting told that there is another way is fine. Being told time and again that you went the wrong way was does get old though.

Maybe I sound a little hostile and that is not my intent but the allusion that I am just a shade tree guy and don't know what I am doing gets a little old. Yeah, I will turn a few wrenches to the extent that I have time or the knowledge to do it but beyond that I pay the pros and study what they do. I am not scared to admit that there is a bunch I don't know and that is why I pay those that do.

I don't have any hard feelings but would prefer not to hear all of this for a third time. When someone I respect tells me something, I listen. Do I do what they say? Maybe or maybe not. When they tell me over and over again, it makes me feel that they don't have any respect for my point of view.

In this case I really respect someone but I am getting the feeling that he does not really respect my point of view and I find that a little upsetting. It is a two way street and there are pros and cons to both. No I probably should not have gotten a little personal about the whole prop thing this weekend. My point there is that when I respect someone, I usually don't publicly air out something they have that does not work. Maybe it was not meant to be and that is that. I usually give quiet feedback to them directly and leave it at that.


Well.. At least you have more tact than I do handling the same problem.


Like I said ...... The S/C units have won that battle already! I am sure that you know who tuned our "marine" engines and if they liked the old timey way of doing things that little bit of difference would not be a blip on the radar. Our engines are both detuned over 100 hp also. We are NOT overspinning anything!

The Hedgehog
06-29-2009, 11:08 AM
Well.. At least you have more tact than I do handling the same problem.
Like I said ...... The S/C units have won that battle already! I am sure that you know who tuned our "marine" engines and if they liked the old timey way of doing things that little bit of difference would not be a blip on the radar. Our engines are both detuned over 100 hp also. We are NOT overspinning anything!

Hmm tact, I am not sure I have much of that. My first response was after a day of flybridge jumping and a bunch of cocktails. Oh well, it was a hell of a time though.

BigGrizzly
06-30-2009, 10:06 AM
Well Hedg I was not slamming you or Eddie.

The Hedgehog
06-30-2009, 01:43 PM
Well Hedg I was not slamming you or Eddie.

That's cool. I get a little spirited sometimes.

I appreciate that. I will try to give you a shout. I am doing the airplane hop right now.

Take care

BigGrizzly
07-01-2009, 11:26 AM
No Problem, I get that way too. You should have seen me during my bike racing years, while chasing my first number one plate, nice and understanding I was NOT.