You have three or four choices, c

[roadtrip se]

Okay, Here we go....

[Mr X]

Sounds like a very well thought out plan.
Glad to help any way I can, especially when someone really wants to
do it the best way possible.

[BUIZILLA]

sprinkle sprinkle..

[SilverBack]

Good luck Todd!! I know that it will be great when you get done with it!!:yes:

[MDonziM]

Todd - Sounds good. You might want to consider a 539.:wink:

[The Hedgehog]

Todd - Sounds good. You might want to consider a 539.:wink:.

I like the old "539"'s So do all the engine builders. They can "optimize" them without the restrictions of merc's EFI intake and some really good things happen.

None the less, I would imagine that a properly tuned EFI would be a nice package for a 22

[BigGrizzly]

RT, wants the EFI thing and has his sights set, end of story. It is funny the old board high performance guys are staying with what works for long life, MPH is not the highest priority. mine is just fine the way it is. I only added durability to it, if speed happens so be it if not that's OK too.

[BUIZILLA]

stock??

540 rotator kit, new cam, match and pocket port heads, update tune, same externals....

should make 600-625hp and pump friendly :pizza:

[blackhawk]

RT, are you still in Michigan? If so what about Tyler Crockett? He does some good work on Merc stuff. Just throwing it out there.

What is going on in the bilge?

[blackhawk]

I did want to look at Crockett, but returning several calls isn't his strength, so I stopped trying after eight or nine times. Figured he was too busy for me.

I landed on Ron Potter after getting the Crockett treatment out of Innovation. No call back after two weeks of trying. Ron worked at Innovation, started up the Nortec line of custom engines, and then moved out on his own. His reputation is impeccable and he has the ability to make a proactive phone call.

I've heard Tyler isn't great about returning phone calls. I just figured being in Michigan he could dyno tune and fine tune after the motor is installed in the boat.

Now that you say Ron worked for Innovation I think I know who you are talking about. I was trying to track down some info on a motor last year and spoke with Robert Mishko(he worked at Innovation also) and I believe he mentioned his name.

[MDonziM]

can mean so many things in this circle.... Let's just say it will be "stock" like Danny's or Haver's engine packages are "stock". It's my turn now. But that premium fuel might be a give-away, so we will fill up out of sight somewhere.

I did want to look at Crockett, but returning several calls isn't his strength, so I stopped trying after eight or nine times. Figured he was too busy for me.

I also talked to several other engine builders that just did not want to mess with the blue stuff or would have to ship it out for tuning which is very hit and miss. Not interested in try it, ship it, try it again, ship it again.

I landed on Ron Potter after getting the Crockett treatment out of Innovation. No call back after two weeks of trying. Ron worked at Innovation, started up the Nortec line of custom engines, and then moved out on his own. His reputation is impeccable and he has the ability to make a proactive phone call.

Parts are waiting in Sarasota. Brian is pulling the engine today for crating and shipping. The transom assembly arrives today. The tails are on order. We are on our way.

Now about this fiberglass mess...

I dont know how they work because it never stops raining in Long Island but we made some cool mounts out of 1/2 " aluminum 18" long. I'll post a pick when I can download. Keeps the standard eng mounts.

[BUIZILLA]

Looks like it's time for me to break out the "other" engine, which solves the whole "what's going in the X-factor" dilema also..

Hey Buiz, you still have the BIG Holley right? you'll need a new hatch.. :pimp:

[Carl C]

Just plant me a row of sweet corn.........maybe some radishes.........

[MDonziM]

Wow. I had no signs like that, just seperated the tabbing on the port side of the transverse where it met the topside. My stringers were totally water-logged though. All the screws, fittings etc. had no sealer.

[osur866]

Todd, theres not doubt in my mind you will take your time and do it right the way you want it done. Big HP without blower = RELIABLE HP.

[Donziweasel]

The glass is a bitch. Take it to a shop and it will cost $$$$$. On top of that, it still might not be done right. Heard of more than one person who got a bad glass job by a supposed "pro".

As for me, you know what I am doing. I hope the "cheap" comment isn't directed at this ole' do it your selfer. :wink: You know I have done research, oredered books, spoken with three pros, and ordered the best stuff out there in resin and coosa. Definetly isn't cheap, but is a serious PITA and cheaper than the shop.

So you really only have two choices, get in there and get dirty, or farm it out. Kinda sucks either way.........:bonk:

[gcarter]

So you really only have two choices, get in there and get dirty, or farm it out. Kinda sucks either way.........:bonk:

Yep....:wink:

So what are ya gonna do Todd?

[The Hedgehog]

Todd, theres not doubt in my mind you will take your time and do it right the way you want it done. Big HP without blower = RELIABLE HP.

Up to a point that is true. You do hit a point that it is better to be boosted. For instance, a blown 798 making 800hp will last longer than a N/A 798 making 800hp. By far. That is coming from a guy with a broken hair dryer.:wink:

[Carl C]

The glass is a bitch. Take it to a shop and it will cost $$$$$. On top of that, it still might not be done right. Heard of more than one person who got a bad glass job by a supposed "pro".

As for me, you know what I am doing. I hope the "cheap" comment isn't directed at this ole' do it your selfer. :wink: You know I have done research, oredered books, spoken with three pros, and ordered the best stuff out there in resin and coosa. Definetly isn't cheap, but is a serious PITA and cheaper than the shop.

So you really only have two choices, get in there and get dirty, or farm it out. Kinda sucks either way.........:bonk:

I'm sure it was directed at me. No problem. I still might cut out the shelves and glass up the other side of the stringer but I'm not working on my boat all summer. Any new major projects will wait until the off season. I'm going boating. I think I added quite a bit of strength to a hull that was already reinforced. Yeah, I'm going boating. Todd, good luck with the project though. It sounds like it might out-run mine but that's OK. I guess the sweet corn is out of the question now though :(.

[gcarter]

I just need to make sure whomever I hire to do the work, executes according to the plan. Some of these guys are very opinionated about doing things their way, but I am the one cutting the check, and I will get what I want, or keep looking until I do.

I'll know more tomorrow...

Ya better watch them every day.

[BUIZILLA]

whoever Tripper picks won't need a watchdog...

[Donziweasel]

As an amature glass guild member, no apology needed.:) Todd, in looking back, if I had had the money, I would have had a professional shop do it. Not that I don't think I can do a good job, which I know I can, just the aggravation and time factor.

Now that I am doing it, I would more more than happy to help anyone. Just buy the beer and I will be happy to sit back, watch, and tell you what to do.:):bonk:

[The Hedgehog]

As an amature glass guild member, no apology needed.:) Todd, in looking back, if I had had the money, I would have had a professional shop do it. Not that I don't think I can do a good job, which I know I can, just the aggravation and time factor.
Now that I am doing it, I would more more than happy to help anyone. Just buy the beer and I will be happy to sit back, watch, and tell you what to do.:):bonk:

No more respirator and tyvek for you?

[Donziweasel]

Now Bill, how can I drink beer with a respirator on? Shhheeeeshhh......:bonk::)

As for my project, going to start back on her next week after I am done fighting the Pinzgauer.:)

Now back to your favorite channel on Flowerpot TV.......:)

[BigGrizzly]

I will address the blower thing first. Done CORRECTLY and with moderation they can out last the same size normally aspirated engine. I have real proof, and Hedg is not it, he over extended his engine but knew it. Me I backed it down to 698 HP, just for that reason. I said what is the max reliable boost and dropped 1 pound. So I got longevity. I also don't beat the stuffing out of it. Now for the Glass. Todd will find the best available. Just remember when that is fixed the next weak link will show up. DonziM mentioned 18inch long engine mounts Mine are 63 inches long. Mine is an older Donzi so I tame my driving down except when sand bar jumping:eek::eek::lightning

[Carl C]

Now Bill, how can I drink beer with a respirator on? Shhheeeeshhh......:bonk::)

As for my project, going to start back on her next week after I am done fighting the Pinzgauer.:)

Now back to your favorite channel on Flowerpot TV.......:)

Glad to hear you are going to dig back in. It sounded like you were going to moth ball it for a while. There is satisfaction from doing your own work and if it fails you can only blame yourself. For me it wasn't the money. I wanted to learn about this stuff and I wanted the work done the way I wanted it after consulting with several glass guys (like you did). George was a huge help.

[The Hedgehog]

I will address the blower thing first. Done CORRECTLY and with moderation they can out last the same size normally aspirated engine. I have real proof, and Hedg is not it, he over extended his engine but knew it. Me I backed it down to 698 HP, just for that reason. I said what is the max reliable boost and dropped 1 pound. So I got longevity. I also don't beat the stuffing out of it. Now for the Glass. Todd will find the best available. Just remember when that is fixed the next weak link will show up. DonziM mentioned 18inch long engine mounts Mine are 63 inches long. Mine is an older Donzi so I tame my driving down except when sand bar jumping:eek::eek::lightning

I disagree with that. I have never said that my motor is underbuilt.

My blower was setup to specs and tolerances according to Procharger. In car motors they routinely spin that blower even harder to the point that they use pop off valves. The engine lives fine, the blower did not. According to Procharger the blower should NOT have failed. As a matter of fact 8 lbs is considered relatively low for that blower.

Eddie has a theory about what may have caused the problem. When we were dynoing the motor the tensioner bearing caught during a pull. It did not give at all. This actually caused the blower to flex. He took the tensioner apart and fixed it. He thinks that this placed undue stress on those ball bearings that spin at 45,000 rpm

I make plenty of power, but don't really spin it that hard. Most of the life of the blower was not even making boost. I don't "beat the stuffing" out of mine either. You can ask Trueuser, Gero, Z-man and others that were running in the back of the pack with me at AOTH. On the other hand, I also know of others that spin it to 13 lbs with NO problems.

Is my engine over extended? At 6,200 when it is making 942 hp, the engine MIGHT be but it has only been run there once. The major difference between Eddie's 850 and 950 is the crank.

Now you are welcome to call my engine builder Eddie Young and give him a few pointers. Feel free to tell him that the engine that he built and warranteed is overextended. While you are at it, you can call Procharger and tell then that the rpm and boost tolerances they prescribe are meaningless. Hell, you can call Marc Boos and give him a few pointers too since he sets them up in a similar manner and runs the same kind of numbers with his Procharged engines. I seem to remember that he had something to do with your original setup years ago.

Now I agree that ATI could use a few lessons in how to tune and set up motors that use their blowers. I have been involved in that rewrite too. Twice. But in terms of what the actual blower can handle in RPM and Boost, they know their blowers.

Sure my blower failed. It should not have failed and there are many others that spin them harder. All things can fail. Stock 502's fail, 350's fail, 500 EFI's fail and so on. If you make or do anything enough, you will have failures.

Now I do plan to set mine up a little differently in the future. That is to so I will not have to rely as heavily on the tensioner. I will go to a 12 rib for that. But I was told time and again that it was NOT necessary unless I was getting slip.

[glashole]

whenever flower pots around here crack we toss them out

good luck on the build

i know the idea is to have a strong safe boat that is reliable

but realistically
what sort of speed you aiming for with that bad boy

think it'll break 90

[Donziweasel]

I found it you put a rubber nipple over the bottle of beer, you can slip it under the respirator and get a swig between itches.....:bonk::)

Good luck Todd, I know it will be nice when done......:crossfing::wink:

[Rootsy]

No more respirator and tyvek for you?

hell man what are you saying... the fumes actually make the itching bearable...

Don't I look happy here?

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/jaroot13/1966_18_Donzi/1966C18105316.jpg

[The Hedgehog]

[QUOTE=Rootsy;520480]hell man what are you saying... the fumes actually make the itching bearable...

Don't I look happy here?

OMG, Itch supreme. I am itching just looking at that pic. I seem to remember a similar pic of Weasel. I hope that he was drinking that beer.

Roadtrip, are you seeing this? Break out the checkbook. Do NOT let this happen to you:shocking:

Reminds me of a story a friend told me about ripping down a ceiling with a bunch of fiberglass insulation. Let's just say he was not educated on the itch factor when he started. Well it was hot and he was only wearing a pair of shorts and some shoes....needless to say, he will never do that again.:eek: He said that he hurt so bad all he could do was sit on the corner of a chair for a couple of days.

[Air 22]

I have just purchased a set of goggles....:kingme:

good luck RT...sounds interesting:pimp:

[Donziweasel]

It is an epidemic taking over the country. Only you can stop this!!!!! Please, do not let what happened to me happen to you Todd! If not for yourself, think of the children........:bonk::bonk::):)

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w190/johnnyalltrans/Covered.jpg

[BigGrizzly]

Wait Hold the phone. What I meant had nothing to do with the blower. That is one of the thing that just happen. At 6200, it may be over stressed. I put that in there to stop the flack coming at us. BTW Marc Boos has never seen my engine he saw My son's because Wipple screwed him on the ECU. Since it was a 7.4 We decided that he was best to take to Marc to dodge lobster pots. Point being is done RIGHT had nothing to do with your engine or your builder. as for ATI, Their Tech guys are flawed. We went through the same thing with them almost 10 years ago. They love the pop off valve thing, that way they don't have to work hard at tuning. When I said reliable and backed off one pound was for MY package. I do know you don't beat your or you would have been at a higher stupid speed. but you don't have stock in Fruit of Loom either.

[gcarter]

I made sure there were NO pictures like that were taken of me.....

I decided I'm tough and I'm sticking to it! :wink:

[Rootsy]

Don't let Trip BS ya all... he's partaken in the fumes... and I think some ***** drink called woodchuck cider or something... The blue wasn't good enough for him.. :wink:
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/jaroot13/1966_18_Donzi/1966C18105409.jpg

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n27/jaroot13/1966_18_Donzi/1966C18105401.jpg

[Donziweasel]

Should have known it, ole' glass sandbagger......:wink::bonk::):nilly:

[The Hedgehog]

Wait Hold the phone. What I meant had nothing to do with the blower. That is one of the thing that just happen. At 6200, it may be over stressed. I put that in there to stop the flack coming at us. BTW Marc Boos has never seen my engine he saw My son's because Wipple screwed him on the ECU. Since it was a 7.4 We decided that he was best to take to Marc to dodge lobster pots. Point being is done RIGHT had nothing to do with your engine or your builder. as for ATI, Their Tech guys are flawed. We went through the same thing with them almost 10 years ago. They love the pop off valve thing, that way they don't have to work hard at tuning. When I said reliable and backed off one pound was for MY package. I do know you don't beat your or you would have been at a higher stupid speed. but you don't have stock in Fruit of Loom either.

Thanks for clarifying that. By saying that I over extended my engine, I concluded that you meant just that. Yes, I can over spin it, but I don't. Even at 6,200 I am just on the fringes. That is the second time you have alluded to me over spinning my blower. I am not the only one that has picked up on that. I was kind of puzzled too since when I talked to you at AOTH, you seemed to have some of the same theories that I have. The main theme was possible tension problems. I can buy that. In the end that is not way different than Eddie's theory.

Am I a little sensitive? You bet, I just got finished writing ATI a $2,800 check for a blower that should not have failed. I am not through with them. I just wanted to get on the water. We shall see how they value their reputation in the long run. Yes, I paid. Am I happy? No. They can either meet me part of the way or it is a whipple for me on the next go around. Yes, I think that overall they have a good product but it gets into the whole "I get screwed once it is your fault but on the second time it is mine" situation. Another round of that and I will probably be forced to join the unboosted ranks of SE. On the other hand, I won't let it ruin my good time. I knew that I would sign up for a fe bumps in the road when I wanted to go big with the power.

Now I do applaud your ability to build a long living boosted engine. In the end, I think it makes sense and will work out better than trying to extract a bunch of power out of a N/A engine by using a big cam and exotic valve train.

Now please post us on your project.

Back to the regularly scheduled events. I want to ponder Todd's cool and well thought out project. It sounds like it will be just right. And the fiberglass wars? Priceless:eek: Another round or tyvec (or how ever the heck you spell it) for the guys wearing dust:popcorn:

[BUIZILLA]

those bilge cracks aren't visible outside?

[BUIZILLA]

I don't want to put my opinion on here.... but we do own phones.. :wink:

[boxy]

Yes, but phones kind of ruin the sharing of information. This isn't the CIA..
Says J Edgar Hoover ......... :kingme:

[Carl C]

So what do you think of these dang shelves?

You gave me a hard time for not cutting out the shelves and glassing over the entire stringers and my stringers are further apart. Also looking back at the pics of Ted's lay-up you will need to relocate the bilge drain plug hole and how will water drain from the front of the boat when the engine room floor has been raised an inch or so? That is the main reason I did not core mine. That and the fact that I'm looking at 83-84 mph vs Ted's 100+ mph. I think that the way I brought the glass up and over the shelf a couple inches added strength in a different way.

Oh, and don't get testy. If you'd rather I stay off your thread I will. I am interested in these projects though.

[BUIZILLA]

your hull cracked on the outside... twice....

his didn't..

[Rootsy]

Those fricking shelves are really in there and show no signs of movement. I am not sure I want to tear them out to get to both sides of the stringer system. I am going to go back and try to get a better look at the outside of the things through the mount access ports and make a decision based on what I see there.
If it were easy....

Nothing the metabo won't take care of in under 20 minutes... trust me... :pimp:

[gcarter]

Just a little stress cracking at the termination of the strakes. Nothing else and I have been under there more times than I want to admit to...

So what do you think of these dang shelves?

I know of at least two members that had them removed and the stringers replaced....very recently.
You might be surprised what you find under there.
Everyone else was.

I'm not sure you need any additional core between the stringers. If the Donzi repair procedure is followed and a few extra courses of 0*-90*, altrernating w/some 45*-45* would make for a very strong bottom.
Understanding that the damage is repaired first!!!!!!! :nilly::yes:

[Carl C]

your hull cracked on the outside... twice....

his didn't..

As far as I can tell the cracks were inboard of the stringers and my hull has had the factory mini-stringer mod done and I added four layers of stitchmat over all of that. Outboard of the stringers, under the shelves, is a rigid section with gussets. I agree it would be best to glass over each side of the stringer but you'd be working in some tight nooks around those gussets.

[BigGrizzly]

I was going to stay out of this but, I can't resist. The box AKA floor is a triangulated gusset which adds strength yo that area but transfers it to the inner hull, hence the cracking. Now on the under floor I doubt that there is any real problem. That being said mine is anything but stock. I learned in 1968 that the stringers have issues. I have two 6 foot 6X1/2 aluminum in the 16 and similar in the 22 sistering the stringers. The wooden encased stringers flex laterally.if you caught it early you would notice it starts at the mounts. My engine is supported by the plates on the top not bolted through it. The Corsican has port to starboard Steel support under the engine mounts, similar to offshore mounts. The off shore mounts actually deter inner flexing of the stringers. I believe if you leave the boxes in tact and core the floor you will be in good shape. This is not a new thing My old JS skiff had issues like this with wood and pulling out screws cross members under the engine and sistering cured it for the most part.
Now Hedg, Do not think Wipple is the answer. I have seen then really come apart and do more then stop in the cooler. There is also Vortex- cheaper to fix. What caused your problem I am not sure. It could have been Dirt or a loose projectile in the hull. I really don't think the tensioner caused it because the blower would have to have stopped all of a sudden. Remember ATI's good information comes from the car guys, which is way different from our application. cars get lighter the faster they go and boats get heavier. Stress is way different. My Son ran 14 psi boost on his car with many miles without an issue, Did his own computer thing with timming curves and O2 sensors etc. I have seen a quad rotor wipple come apart and it isn't pretty. Maybe I am too conservative. On the first motor I backed off 100 HP because I was at the top of the M1 Curve and power. With this engine I went directly to the horse power and boost I wanted for durability. Do I feel it was your fault operationally, NO. Do I think it was Eddies, NO. Things happen. Can I go to 850 ponies- yes. will I NO. IS it for Todd, NO he has his program and I think he should stick to it. Jill is more important than any engine or boat. thats that.

[gcarter]

I'm not adding anything additional other than to "STRONGLY" suggest the shelves come off so YOU can see what Donzi did the day they built yours.

Probably, you'll want to thank me later.

That's it....I'm outa here.

[Mr X]

and I appreciate it from everybody.
There have been a couple of "man-behind-the-curtain" conversations on the phone this morning, and if this is the way they want to offer advice, I'll take it.
As for the advice offered here:
1) I am leaning towards cutting the boxes out and glassing both sides. The coring can be tappered to utilize the existing drain hole.
2) These boxes look like a lot more than 20 minutes to tear out without destroying stringers. It really depends on how they are attached to the stringers, if at all. The other opportunity is a blade through the side of the boat. Not much there.
3) I am not impressed with the Donzi warranty fix. Apologies to you that have had it done, and it might live with a lower HP set-up, but it isn't for me. I am going to core the bottom to stiffen up the entire surface under the engine. I may go with trusses too, but the clearance then becomes a potential problem.
Bonus info. I am going with hard mounts and a cross member between the stringers to give it even more torsional strength. This thing will be as solid as I can get it.
Keep it coming... Thanks.

I call it a cape......not a curtain.

[BUIZILLA]

I prefer the curtain..

[Air 22]

Todd take it all apart:wink:...been there done that...:smash:

[MDonziM]

Todd,

If you want pm me and I'll tell you what I did. Complete gut job. New stringers , gussets, shelfs, forward transverse. Cored, tabbed and reglassed. I had no signs like you have and the stringers were rotten and notched into 4 pieces by the factory.

[Mr X]

Dont let it get ya down brother....you are over thinking it!!

Like Dwight says "just do it"


If yours is a trailer queen.....wonder what mine is?

On foam blocks in an airconditioned garage....I need my head examened :bonk:

[roadtrip se]

is no hobby for compulsive-obsessive people.

Oh wait a minute, I am one.

Thanks Ted, I think you better go check those foam blocks. A stringer might not be supported properly.

I AM over thinking this. Time for a beer and bbq by the pool down at Dad's!

[Air 22]

ck ur email...:wink:

[blackhawk]

I'm not adding anything additional other than to "STRONGLY" suggest the shelves come off so YOU can see what Donzi did the day they built yours.

Probably, you'll want to thank me later.

That's it....I'm outa here.

I agree.

[The Hedgehog]

I like the small Danas. Nice looking piece.

[fogducker III]

I like the Dana tabs as well...........

[CHACHI]

Zeiger Performance Marine.

Ken

[The Hedgehog]

http://www.danamarineproducts.com/ProductDetails.cfm?group_id=15&catid=19&productid=1848&CFID=637741&CFTOKEN=2dde5b8-3bbc0f6e-f75f-4207-b8ee-ae3f855a73e2
I do like the fact that they are a bit shorter than the Eddie Marine stuff.
Also like that they offer them in clear, I'll leave the bling for somebody else.
I imagine EM would do their's in clear as well.
So, have you guys run these?
I just priced real k-planes... insanity.

No, but the was my first choice before I found a deal on some Kplanes. I did some digging around. I heard of some issues with Eddie Marines a while back. I heard that they had been resolved but did not hear much negative about the Danas.

I am not a 22 expert but I like the idea of those size planes on a 22

[BigGrizzly]

Since when did you use tabs?:nilly:

[widowmaker]

I'm planning on looking into new tabs as well next winter. What are your present thoughts on size and location (or have you gotten that far yet)? I'm not sure that extending the running surface on boats our size will add mph.

[CHACHI]

http://www.everettperformance.com/Zeiger_Performance_Marine/Catalog/Rigging_Accessories_1.asp?key=Stainless%20Steel%20 Trim%20Tabs

Any ideas on pricing Ken? Real world experience?

Todd, No experience at all. I saw them in Paul's catalouge when I was looking for hydraulic steering and I thought they looked pretty substantial.

Wish I could be more of a help. I guess right now it is just another option to research.

Ken

[widowmaker]

My tabs cannot be made to retract above horizontal. Consequently, while testing props just prior to AOTH IX, I relocated the front machine screws attaching the ram to the tab to the rear holes, thereby raising the tabs about 20 degrees. There was absolutly no difference in speed or performance with this temporary modification. My thinking is that at speed with my "run of the mill" stainless tabs fully retracted to the horizontal position, they are out of the way of any water, other than light spray, from water rising from behind the boat. With longer tabs, that would likely not be the case.

What I would like to accomplish with a tab change is to better control or stabilize that loose feeling (not chine walk) that I sometimes get in confused water at speeds in excess of 80 mph. This more often occurs when I am somewhat "over trimmed", but that also is where I find my absolute best top speed. That is why I presently question the proper location of replacement tabs.

[undertaker]

Todd, give Paul @ Zieger a call about the tabs, he is a great straight up guy to talk to, I am sure he will give you a great price....I have talked to him a few times when I purchased my hydraulic steering and he always treated me right:):)

[SilverBack]

Todd...I can't tell you a lot about how the Dana tabs work because it is poker run season and it is hard to get your boat out of the shop when the "Big Dogs" have needs and plenty of money to spend but I can tell you that the Dana tabs use the same pump as the K planes and that you use on your drive. They have a pump for each tab and are very quick. I can also tell you that they do pull up further than any other tabs that I have seen (I don't think that you will have any trouble getting them out of the water) and a couple of guys with K planes on some high dollar skaters loved the look and finish when they saw the ones that I bought. I am mounting mine for high speed stability without the chine walk and porpoising like the ski race boats do so I don't think that it will be of much help if you are mounting in the stock position.

[The Hedgehog]

Tear down is complete.
Engine block needs to be replaced, as the exterior port side mounting point has cracked from stress load. Ron says it looks like the stringers were moving around, and the block took the load and cracked. I'll put some pics up when I get them. Brian thinks it is freeze damage.
I have run the stock rubber motor mounts since 2002. From the looks of the bilge and stringers forward of the mount points, it looks like the these mounts do a so-so job of keeping things glued down. Borrowed time, at best, for high-perf applications.
The new system will be a cradle with hard mounts tying the stringers in, vibration be dammed. It will be a single motor cradle from Merc, as modified by Brian.
This puts us back about ten days, which is darkening the chances for a boat at Eufala. But there is still an opportunity.

Dang dude. I heard that you were not scared to drive that boat but that is some serious crackage!

BTW, I know that it is not a classic, but going to big responsive tabs was a huge improvement on the ZX. I agree that you should be able to dial in a boat to run well without them but mine have been a welcome addition. The mechanical indicators are also key. It is amazing how it settles the boat down just by running them level. Beyond that you can scrub 5mph just by one blip down. Sure, you can run them without indicators but knowing exactly where the starting point is helps a bunch.

[Air 22]

Tripper...good info...post those pic's...

Keep in mind that your stock mounts may or may not have caused you stringer problems..As seen in many 22C's as of late..the problem is with the stringers themselves thus a domino effect of failures. Glad to c ur crew is on it and a plan is excecuted as things go fwd. Good luck...
Air42 of Deja Blue Engines...:)

[BigGrizzly]

The cradle mounts I saw did not use the block mounts at all so is the block cracked or just the mount?

[gcarter]

While I agree the bracket will be good for the boat, Wouldn't you also agree that the block casting was probably at fault also?
I can't say I've ever seen a casting fail like that. Cast iron is really hard, rigid stuff.

[BUIZILLA]

pic's needed.... doesn't make sense

[BigGrizzly]

My take is why the block unless it is cracked if the offshore mounts don't use that mounting point. Just trying to understand the crack situation. The other thing is the loosening mount thing. I have driven side by side with you on many occasions and your not abusive to that point. I too have the same questions about the stringers that you do.

[The Hedgehog]

Great thread SE,

You are really getting some good info out here.

[Air 22]

Hedge, no doubt this boat has seen some very big water. It probably will not again. As for the tabs, I am with you, tabs without indicators are worthless. I am going to run the boat first, and make the determination of whether it needs them or not. Spending a bunch of dough on tabs for cosmetic reasons, while tempting, is going to be a phase two deal. If it needs them, it's still a phase two deal. This winter.
Dwight, I am convinced the mounts had a big part to do with the failures. It is just too much of a coincidence that all of the cracking starts at the mounts and goes forward on the stringers and bilge surface. From the mounts back to the transom, everything is good. The block mess just seals the deal for me. I have always had to check the mounts and tighten as part of pre-flight, a PITA.
In addition, it concerns me that Danny sheered a Merc-style, hard mount, which is what I was going to use. Not any more, we are going full cradle with hard mounts to the stringers. Full lock down with no messing around.
I will post pics of the damage, when I get something from Ron.


Todd...remember both u and Danny just dropped in those 500's without any stringer/glass work b4 hand(no visual need?). Those original mounts and stringers were atleast tired...Doc had alot of stuff come loose...thats why that mount possibly snaped...were talking a wide range of years 93, 95, 2000+ hulls and glass layups done by varied personnel etc. All the new stringer/transom work I had was to accomodate the 500...knowing what we had and what was comming and not wanting a repeat failure...Strength and durability was utmost. With a lifetime warranty of the work..I can sleep at night.

Your approach sounds awsome and I commend you for the well executed plan. I would suggest anyone dropping in a Blue or any other High HP motor into a hull not originall engineered/designed for it... make Stringer etc improvements b4 installation to avoid failures were all seeing.:bonk:

Todd..you go man...good work...post some pic's will ya:wink:

[Air 22]

The block is cracked at the attachment point for the traditional mounts.
Feedack?

To much Miracle Grow and she exploded..pot cracked...time to re-plant into a bigger, stronger pot...:kingme:

[BUIZILLA]

rubber isolated mounts, and a cracked block? :nilly:

[Air 22]

rubber isolated mounts, and a cracked block? :nilly:

Good point Jim..

Todd...in your case the mounts may be the problem or added to it...heck my lil 502 aggrivated the structural problems to my mounts and stingers. The problem wasn't from the motor it was the poor rigging that allowed water to seep into all the screw holes which led to the wood getting wet and rotting. Then the 502 just tore it apart. Didn't matter what mounting system was used...the core of the stringers and transom was shot after 14yrs. Our 22 also did not have the stringers tied into the transom for additional strength...that problem was addressed and corrected by my glass guy. The transom and stringers are now working together as one. Like you..we r keeping the boat and I wanna pass it along to my kids as a reliable boat.
Your new set up is going to have a lot more power than u had...A race mount craddle sys is the way to go!:)

[blackhawk]

RT, I have an offshore mount sitting in my garage if you're interested. It would need to be blasted and painted/powdered but it is a heavy duty piece and has a bonus area for the oil cooler.

[Air 22]

That is a lot of horsepower to get out of a 500EFI.
Wow!
Mr. Stocker Jr.


Hey Capt. Miracle Grow....try uploading something other than thumb-nail sizer pic's will ya...geeezzzzzzzz:nilly:

Stop trying to hide ur project...:kingme:

as for the HP....you will have no problem making HP Biggggggg HP:angel:

And.....Yes....I am Mr. Stocker Jr...always STOCK...Always...:kingme:

[BUIZILLA]

blow up the pic's would ya....

geez

cold winter huh? :cool:

[Trueser]

looks like a leaky freeze plug to me.

[gcarter]

looks like a leaky freeze plug to me.
I agree, it's just a faulty casting.
That should make you feel better about the boat.
Doesn't help your costs though.

[BigGrizzly]

Seen this before, not a stress issue but a plug issue and can be repaired if not too bad. Knowing you, you will probably do the block anyway. So at this point I will keep the mouth shut, and keep your reservations opened at the casa De Griz.

[BUIZILLA]

magnaflux the block...

[Air 22]

You could always just get a 525....STOCK:pimp::angel::kingme:


Air42 of Jr. STOCK:kingme:

[BUIZILLA]

You could always just get a 525....STOCK:pimp::angel::kingme:

Air42 of Jr. STOCK:kingme: you have cleverly avoided my direct cross exam question.... must be your sig pic and ADD :bonk:

[BUIZILLA]

can I have the old block?

[Air 22]

I'm starting to love "stock".
Yepper!


:pimp: :kingme: :cool: :wink:

[Air 22]

can I have the old block?


Empty flower pots are very very fragile....:angel: :pimp:

[Carl C]

I saw your boat today inside Brian's shop.

[Trueser]

no PICTURES....

[Mr X]

Todd
don't give up on me.....I will try to get you the pics we talked about
by this weekend.

[BUIZILLA]

what's the word on the cast off's?

[SilverBack]

Trip....what about the X..is it going up?? Would you tell if it was?? :wink: Any thought of going with an 3 inch rise extension box?? The five and six blade props really come alive when you get them up out of the water a bit!!

[SilverBack]

SB,
I have been pretty pleased with the set-up on the back of the boat. XR with 2" shortie. I did buy a new HD transom assembly a month ago and a new drive last year, so I got all new.
I have messed around with five blades over the years, but never a six. That should be interesting. I can't wait to try it.
As for trim, my set-up has always liked a lot of trim. My wing-men at the rallies have always known when to put the hammer down, when the roost appears. I get a lot of crap for this, but that is just where the boat runs best, always has, so roost away.
I really hadn't thought about messing around with the set-up on the transom, because it runs so well. With the possible exception of some good tabs, after I see what it does, I'm leaving it alone.


Sweet!! As long as you are getting a rooster and getting the prop up out of the water. I ran a drive spacer and everything was worse! The boat seemed bogged down and the 5 and 6 blades seek the surface and give you too much stern lift if they are not already up getting a couple of blades out of the water... But...... When they are able to run up on the surface .... Watch out!!! My boat feels like it looses 1500 pounds and gains 300 horses. It is great.... It sounds like you have already been there and done that though!! Good luck with everything!!!!

[Mr X]

Todd, photos sent, check your email. :wink:

[SilverBack]

Sounding good!!:yes: Are we getting excited yet??:wink:

[BigGrizzly]

Some how that does not surprise me about Brian. Look at Micks seats, you could lift the boat with them.

[ITTLFLI]

Pumped to see the reports! Then into the hermatically-sealed crate it goes and back to Michigan. Brian built a shipping crate that could survive a nuclear blast or a direct hit from a SCUD.
Also getting a rebate on the build fees from Potter. Somebody already snarfed up all the extras and paid in cold cash. Got to like that. More dough for prop testing!


Lets see some dyno numbers! :cool: :shades:

[BUIZILLA]

you obviously never passed that class :popcorn: :)

[The Hedgehog]

Nice,

Yep, the boat is the ultimate dyno. The GPS is the meter of how things really measure up. You gotta have the entire package. I see lot's of folks with big dyno numbers that don't measure up in the end. It takes more than just power to get it right.

[The Hedgehog]

Spend all the money on the engine to get a number on the dyno and then go cheap on all of the stuff that gets the power to the water like rigging, steering, drives, and props.
Kind of like picking up a new high caliber hand gun, putting on a blindfold, and thinking you'll hit the target every time. Don't work that way for most folks...

Yep, or even worse, don't learn how to shoot:eek:!

[SilverBack]

All of this is fine but Hedge and I stepped up and posted video and dyno sheets!!!:popcorn:

[blackhawk]

All of this is fine but Hedge and I stepped up and posted video and dyno sheets!!!:popcorn:

I have to agree I enjoy reading build specs and dyno sheets!

[Carl C]

Yup, dyno sheets are good. I don't think anyone is looking to be the fastest and it's not going to break my heart if you are faster. I'm happy where I am at in the low 80s.

[Phil S]

i like your style roadtrip.......keeps the Donzi mystique alive and well...

Sandbag 101 ? not only do i think he took it....it's more like he has a P.H.D. in it, graduating Magna Cum Sleeper ! :wink::kingme:

[The Hedgehog]

Dyno sheets and video have their place. Don't get me wrong, I like to read them and learn.

They don't belong on a proper sandbag machine though. A stealth machine is and always should be a stealth machine. I love the custom stuff but I think that a very well tuned stock machine that is dialed in to the max is a great idea. I would probably go for that if I had a 22. A stocker that runs in the pack is not a bad thing but I prefer custom in that case. Now a stocker that runs out ahead....Now you are talking.

SE will break out the yardstick at AOTH. There will be no hiding there and that is better than a dyno sheet anyday for me.

I am sure that the dyno was for break in and tuning purpose only:wink:

[BUIZILLA]

stealth is good....

very good..

fun too..

:convertib:

[Carl C]

stealth is good....

very good..

fun too..

:convertib:

A lot of it comes down to water conditions and driver skill. I can rarely run wide open anymore.

[BigGrizzly]

Sealth is good dyno sheets are a measurement to an end. Like hedge said. Very few have ever seen a dyno sheet from me and probably won't. Trust me and people who know me. if I wanted 900 ponies I would have them. I respect speed and go only as fast as I want/need to go. To me getting home in one piece is a priority. My big problem is I would love to bling my boat butHP is easier and cheaper. BTW did I mention I love my Konrad and it was worth forgoing the bling.

[Brian41]

Maybe I can give you some dyno numbers next week

[smokediver]

is there secret to keeping a secret ? i don't get it :boggled:

[Carl C]

is there secret to keeping a secret ? i don't get it :boggled:

This whole thread wouldn't be here if it were a secret and Todd could let everyone think he had a 330 hp 454 until he blows by them. Todd, you will not have a sleeper; We know you're up to no good:alligator.

[BigGrizzly]

Bryan, don't post numbers with out special signed approval from Todd AND Jill.

[boxy]

Bryan, don't post numbers with out special signed approval from Todd AND Jill.
And just so you're clear, Todd isn't the one to be afraid of ..... :D :D

[BigGrizzly]

Boxy has got it right.

[Air 22]

.
Interesting thing is, there are always several projects that see their debut at this run. Two that comes to mind this year were Widowmaker and Air22. They both ran pretty good in the crowd. And I don't remember see them post details on their motors here.
No build or dyno sheets coming from this camp. Sorry. Sandbaggers unite....
I am going to post all of the other data from the re-rig.
:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

No dyno need for me...I'm low 60's and completely STOCK...Always STOCK...like my signature...Mr.Stocker Jr.:angel:

[Carl C]

100%. 65 mph on a good day. Will my insurance go down now??

[blackhawk]

I'm all for sandbagging but you failed sandbagging 101 as soon as you mentioned the motor was being sent out to Ron! :D

[The Hedgehog]

Progress slowed this week to a crawl.
Rob had to order gel coat from the manufacturer, after having hell trying to match it. This particular stuff was only used for two years by Donzi, so the "every one of them is different" theory continues to play out. I think the stuff is being routed through Bangkok, since it requires hazardous material shipping.
Ron lived with my motor on the dyno this week. I am not going to get into details here, but those of you who are thinking of a "re-flash" for whatever reason, just don't do it. I can't imagine how a remote tuner could EVER get it right as the odds are completely against them. You have to have the motor, the dyno, and the programming expertise all in the same place to make this work. Ron does.
Brian needs two weeks, off and on, to do his thing. And I am not going to rush him. He needs to clean up my shortcuts, which you all have been very adept at pointing out, fashion a cradle, install a new throttle, and a plethora of other tasks. I imagine I might want to stock up on Bud longnecks for those check-in visits after hours.:bighug:
So it is looking iffy for Eufala, at least with the boat, but we certainly will be ready for the Cig 20 Run in early October.

The reflash brings up a pretty good point. I have stood around and watched some pretty exhausting dyno sessions for tuning the ECU and getting that perfect tune. After that, I have sat through hours of boat tuning on the same ECU. That is done because a boat loads an engine way differently than a dyno. I have been through this on carb engines as well.

Tex will tell you the same thing. He had the "perfect tune" and still had to spend a day with Mark Boos on the water. It took more than a pass or two.

Ron is going to boat tune it as well isn't he?

[The Hedgehog]

I went through this process when I did some serious blower motors for my last big offshore. Highly custom carbed packages, dyno them, and then tune in the boat. All of this, and the things still never ran for more than a couple of hours at a time, but that is a story for another day.
The torgue curve on this motor is being built out to match the same one it had when it came through the door. It should be okay. Ideally, I would have liked to have the engine done locally, for the in boat tuning part, but it didn't work out that way.

Yes, it gets a little harder in boosted engines with having to use 2 bar map sensors and boost tables.

It will probably be close. Knowing the history of tuning with the 500 EFI manifold and how difficult it can be, I was thinking that it might be good to tune it in the boat as well.

You could always grab a wide band O-2 sensor and do a few runs to verify that the tune is on the money. It is kind of a fun exercise and I am sure that someone has one laying around. Tex will probably have one at AOTH.

[zelatore]

Tex will tell you the same thing. He had the "perfect tune" and still had to spend a day with Mark Boos on the water. It took more than a pass or two.



You are not filling me with confidence for when I get back to my project...

[zelatore]

You could always grab a wide band O-2 sensor and do a few runs to verify that the tune is on the money. It is kind of a fun exercise and I am sure that someone has one laying around. Tex will probably have one at AOTH.

How are you planning to 'temporarily' install an O-2 sensor in a wet exhaust? I'm thinking I'd be money ahead to pick one up for $300 or so

if I ever get to put my motor back together...

[The Hedgehog]

How are you planning to 'temporarily' install an O-2 sensor in a wet exhaust? I'm thinking I'd be money ahead to pick one up for $300 or so
if I ever get to put my motor back together...

You have to have O2 bungs in the exhaust. I have plugs when I take them out. It is a pretty common process. You don't want to leave the sensors in full time. They don't like moisture

[FISHIN SUCKS]

Soo.....what did you do with the flowers in the pot? Barbi wants to add some more rose bushes to our landscape.

[FISHIN SUCKS]

Who loves ya buddy??? Maybe I'll contribute a watering can to this project outta shear love and respect:kingme:

[Air 22]

ahhhhhhh....eeeeehhhmmm....Tripper????.if the motor shipped? Then Ron is done with it? :nilly: Do u have some DYNO INFO for the wolves?....:drool:

[BUIZILLA]

ahhhhhhh....eeeeehhhmmm....Tripper????.if the motor shipped? Then Ron is done with it? :nilly: Do u have some DYNO INFO for the wolves?....:drool: it's as classified as your 525 info :popcorn:

[Air 22]

it's as classified as your 525 info :popcorn:


ummmm Jim...no 525..I have a STOCK HP500EFI...Stock...ALWAYS stock:kingme:

[BUIZILLA]

ummmm Jim...no 525..I have a STOCK HP500EFI...Stock...ALWAYS stock:kingme:
I never said you didn't have a 500, I said your witholding info on who has the 525... :pimp:

[RedDog]

and thanks Dwight for trying to cover for me. Yes, I am the one with the new Potter Performance 525...

Cool news Todd and a good move. After all, that HP500 was so yesterday...

[Air 22]

and thanks Dwight for trying to cover for me. Yes, I am the one with the new Potter Performance 525...


Sorry Tripper:nilly:...the CAT had its two front PAWS and one hind leg already outta the bag....:angel:

[BUIZILLA]

and as the world turns.. :nilly:

[Air 22]

Oh, THAT 525.. I thought you meant the Merc Motor...

The engine says.....Mercury Racing and its Blue...:kingme:.....and ....its STOCK..:angel:

[Air 22]

It's not ALWAYS about you flyboy...


Ohhhhhh...:wink::toiletpap

[ITTLFLI]

Ohhhhhh...:wink::toiletpap

Sorry is this thread about an engine "refresh"?
All I see are NICE TA TA's in your signature 22!! (looking for the motorboating icon/smile thingy) :yes:

[BigGrizzly]

Gee and I have this new Prototype OXP 28 4 blade that is faster then my 29 TXP at 500 rpms lower on my engine. this could be interesting But then some people don't like to try proto types:yes:

[BigGrizzly]

My though is, if you arrive Wednesday or early Thursday or earlier, we can put it in at the ramp and use my covered boat lift to prop test and change props without getting wet or putting it back on the trailer every time we change..

[BUIZILLA]

break in?

are you kidding me?

it ran on the dyno right?

a dyno is a water brake right?

whatta ya think a prop is?

run that bitch... :kingme:

[farmer tx]

Run it like you stole it!!:yes:


break in?

are you kidding me?

it ran on the dyno right?

a dyno is a water brake right?

whatta ya think a prop is?

run that bitch...

[The Hedgehog]

break in?

are you kidding me?

it ran on the dyno right?

a dyno is a water brake right?

whatta ya think a prop is?

run that bitch... :kingme:

Yep,

Probably don't want to floor it all day but squeezing it a time or two is ok. If should have a few hours of break in when Ron tuned the driveability pulls. After that it has probably been opened up a time or two. Maybe more.

[BigGrizzly]

This is what should happen. It should be run with varying speeds, not just for the engine but for the drive too. As long as it is not hammered from a dead stop to WFO and off quickly and waves are not jumped at open throttle no issues will be seen unless there was an issue to begin with. Running a small prop helps too, takes the stress of the engine. One other thing NO steady state cruise at 5200 rpms.

[Lenny]

Numbers Todd, numbers :D ... honest ones ... and first impressions.

[BigGrizzly]

Tod don't give him the numbers.:bonk: Wait ub till it is running then reverse engineer it and lie. That is what Hot boat yse to do only in reverse. I remember a 130 mph cat with 1100 hp that the engine was purchased and we put it on our dyno righr out of the crate had less then 900 ponies

[BUIZILLA]

:rolleyes:

[Air 22]

Tripper...I've designed a logo for the back of a T-Shirt for you when your finally on the water with the "Refreshed" 500:kingme: I say the back of your t-shirt cuz thats all most of us are gonna see...:pimp:

You will be a "Wanted Man"....:cool:

....and the following song fits...:bighug:
http://vodpod.com/watch/274378-ratt-wanted-man
Congrats Blue's brotha...:wink:

[BigGrizzly]

quote,
Lenny, as you know, I am very partial to the rallies and the impromptu runs that happen all the time out there. This is the only way you are going to see what this boat is capable of. I have a pretty good idea of what it should do, and if it gets even close, this will be one happy, trash talking, sand bagging, and rallying fool.
And this is different then Normal for you:pimp:

[The Hedgehog]

Thanks for the advice guys...
Run it like I stole it from the moment it goes in the boat? No.
Shot gun starts? Not wise, and not really possible with the shorty any way.
Varying RPMs and no long, constant RPM runs? On the menu.
For what I spent on this thing and the reputation of my builder, I think I can follow his break in schedule.

Yeah, everybody has their own opinion and most of these are pretty well based. On the other hand, I agree with going with whatever YOUR builder says and recommends. That is always the best for your situation and when it comes to the warranty it is the only way to go. And no, the ECU does not lie!

I am sorry about the crate damage. That SUCKS! I hope it was not too bad.

[gero1]

i dont know much about packaging and trucking but looks like someone forgot to tighten up the bolts. is that black i see on the bell houseing?? OMFG! come to the dark side!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[The Hedgehog]

But this on the other hand is what makes me :)

Nice looking dyno there Brian.

[glashole]

i dont know much about packaging and trucking

:bonk:

consider yourself lucky

can you imagine the BS had that motor been fu@ked up during shipping and trying to find someone to take the heat for it and get it repaired etc..

good times

the sun shines on a dogs a$$ once in awhile

[Air 22]

Well... now u have a valid excuse for only running 90-91 vs like what
92-93?..:nilly:."Crate damage, speed restrictor-plate, slow-me-down-itis phenomena"
:angel:

Seriously...just send it back and start over:nilly:.....JK:toiletpap....:kingme:

[BigGrizzly]

OK, OK quit complaining for Trip he can do it himself. Speculation is just that. Now I have moved a ton of engines with a fork lift and received many shipments, stuff happens and I don't think this was a packing it was a trucking thing. Now Brian get this done and forget the pictures. We need to break this in on Lanier. SO do your stuff.

[BUIZILLA]

check the oil pan...

[gero1]

my arse!!!!!!! improper bolt down. you don't really want to get into it. why don't you give me the name of the trucking co that shipped it? i have seen this on our dock two many times, never bolt our lag screw from the top down. always ALWAYS put the head of the bolt in the bottom with the nut on top so when the blades of the fork lift pick up your crate it doesn't push out the bolts. not the trucking co fault, your packagers fault......pure and simple common sense. get over it

[gero1]

will it run 104 like the cig?

[BUIZILLA]

my .02 I agree with Robert.. either then they were never put in or no nuts or something... how can they BOTH jump up and out of position if they had nuts top or bottom?... or the forks were under the pan and lifted the engine higher than the length of the bolts if they weren't nutted on the bottom, which then fell free when the engine came back down on the pallet base.. and said bolts weren't in the arriving crate... nonetheless, no hurt no foul

carry on :kingme:

[Rootsy]

my arse!!!!!!! improper bolt down. you don't really want to get into it. why don't you give me the name of the trucking co that shipped it? i have seen this on our dock two many times, never bolt our lag screw from the top down. always ALWAYS put the head of the bolt in the bottom with the nut on top so when the blades of the fork lift pick up your crate it doesn't push out the bolts. not the trucking co fault, your packagers fault......pure and simple common sense. get over it


Lag bolts suck... I prefer thru bolts, lock washers and lock nuts... Nothing coming loose on me...

[glashole]

if this whole crate deal is just a beginning of what we have to expect with the finished product............

make sure you hill the hole with water before planting this thing again and packing down the soil

[yeller]

I know you'd like the shipping comments to die RT, but I just can't stop myself. :boggled: To me, it looks like a packing problem. The wood isn't even slightly damaged on that crate. Looks to me like the bolts fell out...not ripped out.

I really want to see the glass work that was done. Well....I really want to see dyno #'s, but I know that's not happening, so I'll settle for glass work. :)

[Lenny]

Todd, I found this pic here today of you, Jill, Gerry and I from about 7 years ago when the HP500 was new :yes:

Those were some fun times... :)

Will be fun to see some more, ... ( BUT DIFFERENT ;) )

http://www.donzi.net/photos/lgreen115.jpg

[smokediver]

looks great ! hope it all comes together smoothly:crossfing:

[Air 22]

Very, very nice Tripper:thumbsup:....and.......

STOCK Wow....:pimp: :kingme:

[Carl C]

What's that funny looking thingy on the back of the motor with all the spark plug wires going into it?:nilly:. Looks good, now pics of the innards please.

[boxy]

What's that funny looking thingy on the back of the motor with all the spark plug wires going into it?:nilly:. Looks good, now pics of the innards please.
After reading the non-disclosure agreement that arrived with the GOOD pictures, I'm pretty sure the penalty for posting a picture of Trip's stock 500 innards will be the oppurtunity to display my own ....... :eek::eek::eek:

[Lenny]

After reading the non-disclosure agreement that arrived with the GOOD pictures, I'm pretty sure the penalty for posting a picture of Trip's stock 500 innards will be the oppurtunity to display my own ....... :eek::eek::eek:


LOL, that's funny :yes:

[Air 22]

You have to admit, the 500 is looking good...


Ohhhh look @ that.....the insides of the Flowerpot....NOT..:pimp:

Gitt"R Done Already....:crossfing:....THE MAJIC PROP awaits...:angel: :kingme:

[The Hedgehog]

Those look like the beefy internal exhaust flappers. Nice. You will need them!

I discovered that lesser flappers are easily blown out with a nice beefy powerplant.

[The Hedgehog]

Dwight, THAT is the inside of the Flowerpot dude. Unfortunately for us, and especially for me at this point, the cradle is all custom fab as you can see. You will get the call on the prop test request, along with Griz and Catch22, as soon as I know it is ready for the water. Looks like another week or so.
Bill, yes those are the flappers to have. People complain about the noise they make, especially noise and vibration freaks like me, but if you hear them clanging, you know they are still there!

Good man. They looked like the heavy duty version. I did not figure that you would have less but if you did not it is a very easy change at this point. And yes, they do sound like some marbles rolling around but it is good to know that they are still in.

[Carl C]

How is the engine alignment done with a cradle like that? I wanted to go with that set-up but that was my concern and I needed to get on the water so went with the stock mounts at least for now.

[blackhawk]

How is the engine alignment done with a cradle like that? I wanted to go with that set-up but that was my concern and I needed to get on the water so went with the stock mounts at least for now.

"Float" the front of the motor until alignment is perfect, then mark, then drill, then hope you are good at marking and drilling! :D

[Carl C]

"Float" the front of the motor until alignment is perfect, then mark, then drill, then hope you are good at marking and drilling! :D

:eek::eek::boggled::nilly:

[Air 22]

"Float" the front of the motor until alignment is perfect, then mark, then drill, then hope you are good at marking and drilling! :D


"Measure 3 times...Drill Once"....:wink:

[Carl C]

Why not make it adjustable with shims???

[blackhawk]

Why not make it adjustable with shims???

The point of an offshore mount is to have a heavy duty solid mount. Once you get it aligned and mounted it will always be aligned. It really isn't that hard, just takes some patience. With the projects you have tackled it would be a piece of cake!

[Air 22]

Very Sharp Brackets..:wink: AC TIG Welds on those brackets... ?...Man its ALL ABOUT THE TOOLS....!!:yes:

[Brian41]

This should hold some pony"s

[Carl C]

This should hold some pony"s

Good stuff.

[Mr X]

Very, very nice looking!!
Hard to see in the pics, is their a backing plate on the outside of the stringers?

[BigGrizzly]

Ponies, Heck Clydesdale s is more like it. Ther is somebody who has over the top mounts too:yes: However he does not have the crossover to the side on his big boat just the little one. Nice job Brian.:yes::yes::yes:

[Air 22]

Very Nice Craftmanship..:wink: Your almost done RT....Allllllllllllmost...:pimp:

[Air 22]

we salute you!
Tomorrow afternoon is splash time on the Detroit River!
It was looking very, very good last night.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doHoE156RAo
I can fly to Metro w Majic prop in hand if ya need any assistance....:drool: :tongue:

[Brian41]

The flower pot has been water tested and it is on it's way home. :party:

[Carl C]

Congrats....Looking forward to some performance numbers. Hopefully the speed won't be a secret........:boat:

[BUIZILLA]

Hopefully the speed won't be a secret........:boat: silly wabbit, of course it will, he's been inducted into Sandbaggers Anonymous :shark:

[boxy]

Congrats....Looking forward to some performance numbers. Hopefully the speed won't be a secret........:boat:
Just keep your handheld GPS running, at least that way you'll know how fast he was going when he went past you ...... :pimp::pimp::pimp:

[blackhawk]

Congrats....Looking forward to some performance numbers. Hopefully the speed won't be a secret........:boat:

Well after all the hype anything under triple digits would be disappointing! :D

[BigGrizzly]

Brian who is the party for, you or Todd. You would have had it done sooner if he had just stayed off the phone with you.:nilly::nilly: No chreed is broken untill real speeds are posted. Hey I only go 86.:pimp:

[BUIZILLA]

there's a drop of water on top of the sea water pump too.. :lookaroun:

[The Hedgehog]

Perfect. Looks stock as can be. That is what I call a job well done.! Very Nice

[Air 22]

Stocker Sr.:pimp:....Nice pic's Tripper:wink:....Looks STOCK to me....:kingme:
BTW...Jr....is watching...:angel:...FYI.... Magic Prop Productions is shipping next week...be on the lookout:lookaroun:...:pimp:

[BigGrizzly]

You mean it isn't stock??? My engine is stock. It was built from parts and we built several just like it so it is stock for that combination. BTW, how many engines make it stock. A 454 mag is stock ,a hp500 is stock, a 350 mag is stock etc.

[mrfixxall]

couple of days. A few more and we start testing props...
Drained the oil tonight through the new-fangled pan drain tube and it looked good.
Getting close. This thing don't want to go slow!


i hope not with the 502++cubes :)

[BigGrizzly]

The P5 is a good unit. It could even be your fast prop only testing and time will tell.

[BUIZILLA]

cut the BS

how fast is it?

:)

[Air 22]

cut the BS

how fast is it?

:)

Its "STOCK" 65gps...MAX WOT...with 5 150lb Miami Beach Sand sandbags in tow...ya know..the ones he borrowed from you..:kingme:

[Carl C]

I have spent the most time running Dwight's 32, labbed Bravo One. Great hole shot, nice acceleration, and very predictable. A bit too much blade for top end, but generous there too. I just tested and bought a 30 stock Bravo One from Mick. It ran very well too and I can turn it more to my desired RPM range. So Bravo One it is, maybe with a little off season tweaking so I can turn it just a bit harder into the limits of the RPM range.



cut the BS

how fast is it?

:)

He will never tell...:nilly:
BUT, one could read between the lines here.
I'm running a similar set-up with a labbed 30p Bravo 1.
And seeing easy 82, current best of 83.4, and there is more potential...
Hmmm. See you all at LG in the spring.:yes:

[Air 22]

The UPS man is delivering me a New Labbed 30P Bravo One...tracking says..."out for delivery"...
The "30"...seems to run well with BLUE..:cool:
Testing today....:pimp:

[Greg K]

Fastest prop is the 28, I'm guessing 91.6 depending on how much he was willing to twist it.


cut the BS

how fast is it?

:)

[BUIZILLA]

I read between the lines on the ITTFLI comment... :lookaroun:

[mrfixxall]

Roadtrip,I'm not saying Brett is not a good prop guy but maybe its time to try a different prop guy..I'm not saying my guy is the best either but he is dam good and everybody where i boat uses him and mind you all their boats run in the excess of 100+ mph rang.hes reworked mine several times (only because i banged it up) and got it rite on the money every time and he is vary reasonable,225.00 for labbing and includes a 1 time free adjustment to the prop if needed..

[BUIZILLA]

:kingme:

[Carl C]

Carl, you and I are running no where close to a "similar" set-up, so take my word on it. I guess you are going to have to come see it run at the AOTH or the Dustoff to find out for yourself.

Still a few weeks to mess around with thi

OOh, I love a good mystery. Could Todd have created a high revving, high hp monster:wrench::eek::cool:.

I'm still waiting for Indian summer:crossfing:. I don't winterize until November. There should be a lot of good weather left in Kentucky:crossfing:.