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Bobby D
06-17-2009, 04:43 PM
Last October during my last run for the season my motor (HM 351 Ford W) backfired, started to quit, backfired again and shutdown. I was able to start the motor up and it ran OK but not great so I headed for the marina. All summer long the Donzi ran like a top and this was first time I had any indication that something was wrong. Back at the marina I noticed my vacuum gauge begin to bounce around and than the motor quit. I was able to get it started again and limped to the ramp before it quit again. All the gauges read normal during all this, including oil pressure at 50 lb and water temp, which always reads cool. Thought I found out what my problem was, I pulled the disturber cap and found it to be very dirty from what looked to be carbon buildup and also pulled the rotor off and it looked to be in bad shape as well like it was bent. So I cleaned the cap and replaced the rotor and started it back up to winterize the motor and it sounded like it’s only running on about 5 or 6 cylinders? Figured the fluctuating vacuum reading was telling me I had an imbalance in the cylinders and that it could be a valve problem. What I did was pulled the valve covers and checked the to see if the camshaft was lifting open the valves and closing them by turning the engine over with the key (pulled the coil wire) didn’t want to fire the engine up. Figured it's possible a rocker got loose or a pushrod may have bent? Everything looked good so the next thing to do was a compression test to see what’s going on inside.
Here is what I found this spring:
No compression in the #6 cylinder. Performed an internal inspection with a bore scope (see snake) and was surprised I was able to get a decent look at what was going on. We cranked the engine over and could see that the intake valve was not closing fully, although it did move up but still remained open. Also could see the piston and it looked OK, bottom line had to pull that head for repairs.
Pulled the head and found the exhaust valve seat came out of the head and jammed the valve in the open position so that’s why I had no compression in that cylinder. Next I got the bad news from the machine shop that the head could not be repaired so found a good head (the pervious owner had a set in his shop) with matching numbers. Had to replace one exhaust and one intake valve and then rebuild it.
Finally got the beast done last week, installed the rebuilt head and autolite plugs per HM specs and so far everything is running fine. Cleaned her up and put some old stuff back on I found in a box including the original style motor cover latches and a steering wheel that I bought from a guy at the fall car show in Carlisle last year. Also included a picture of the twin Donzi’s in the old boat house and so far I can’t decide what one I like best.

mrfixxall
06-17-2009, 05:50 PM
Nice goat! hopefully you checked the lifters,could have pumped up and dinged a piston?

BigGrizzly
06-17-2009, 07:32 PM
the answer to which one you like best is the one your in at the time.

chip w
06-17-2009, 09:02 PM
ough choice. They're both nice. Where did you find the HM specs? I have a 69 HM 302 and would like to find some of the specs for it.

MOP
06-17-2009, 09:46 PM
Glad it worked out have a good season! And thank the powers that be the seat did not shatter and wipe the cylinder.

Phil

JimG
06-18-2009, 05:58 AM
Good job, Bobby! Glad to hear she's up and running!

jl1962
06-18-2009, 06:01 AM
Bob -

You are "lucky" you had "engine trouble" when that 18 just happened to be on the market! Here's to a guy w/ two great Donzis! :kingme:

Glad the 16 is better - not sure about that wheel though......

Enjoy!
JL

Bobby D
06-18-2009, 01:17 PM
Last night the owner of the marina where I keep the boats made me a killer (cash) offer on the ski sporter and I said no. He owns several pristine Chris*Craft mahogany boats including a perfect 1959 Chris Craft Silver Arrow and he wants to add the Donzi to his collection. He has always admired the boat since I have owned it and when I take him out for a ride I usually let him take the wheel for a while and when we return he has to wipe the droll of his chin. Anyway he would be the perfect guy to own the boat. I am positive that he would take excellent care of it and would improve the boat as well but I just can’t do it.
MOP, roger that about luck, all this occurred at very low speed and within 1000 feet of the marina. Valve seat never dropped all the way down it just stayed there and beat the hell out of both valves and ruined the head. I had several guys how know what they are doing look everything over and verify that I did not damage the piston and or the cylinder wall.
Jim, thanks for the help with head removal procedure, spark plug information and other things to do and replace when the head was off.
Big Grizz, your insights are right on as usual and I was disappointed that I didn’t get to Lake George last weekend, to much going on. The ski sporter was torn apart and the 18 2+3 trailer may be overloaded. The motor must weigh more than I think it does I wore out a set of tires on the trip back from Florida and I never would have made it up and back. Will have it all figured out soon and I look forward to future discussions with a guy who has forgotten more abut Donzi’s and Holman Moody’s than I will ever know. Your Solas prop kicks a** on my little boat, I had a guy come up to me last year and tell me the prop was way too big and will not work. He asked me if I wanted to race his go fast boat and I said sure, it was no contest when I put the hammer down the ski sporter hooked up like a freight train and I blow by him and I never looked back.
Chip, I found an old owners manual from 1969 or 1970 a few years back, PM me and let me know what you are looking for and I will send it to you.
Jay, don’t know how long it will stay on but I have to admit the wheel looks better in person. It was new in the box the guy never used it and I only paid 20 bucks for it.

Kirbyvv
06-18-2009, 02:46 PM
Glad you got the sportster back in action. Now I wish I had choices like those two beauties.

BigGrizzly
06-19-2009, 06:47 PM
BobbyD the prop is one of my better contributions. Dr Solas is the one who believed in me. Heck Power Tech told me he would not waste his time there is no money in it. Missed you at George.

dwiggl
06-24-2009, 03:21 PM
Is that Orange Gel coat? or urethane? (hope it's orange or I need my eyes checked....) Color code?
Love it.

MOP
06-24-2009, 05:05 PM
Very nice looking and I do love the drive, you will play hell hurting it.

Phil

HOWARD O
06-24-2009, 08:34 PM
Wow, twin Donzis, very nice! Great looking wheel too, sure sets off the boat. Are there photos of the twin?

Oh, and photos of that '65 Goat would be great too! :yes:

DonziBuoy
06-24-2009, 09:06 PM
Well I just bought the 1974 ski sporter on the classifieds and looking forward to getting it to your specs, gorgeous!

Now all I need is the paperwork on it and I can try her out!

My colors, btw, are similar, but a tint deeper, wondering if that is age?

Also, I have the original volvo outdrive, where the up down trim was sacrificed for the power steering - is there anyone on this site who knows the 270's?

Again, thanks for keeping the standard!

Just Say N20
06-24-2009, 10:20 PM
Well I just bought the 1974 ski sporter on the classifieds and looking forward to getting it to your specs, gorgeous!
Now all I need is the paperwork on it and I can try her out!
My colors, btw, are similar, but a tint deeper, wondering if that is age?
Also, I have the original volvo outdrive, where the up down trim was sacrificed for the power steering - is there anyone on this site who knows the 270's?
Again, thanks for keeping the standard!

Most excellent choice. You are going to be one happy guy! :yes:

Bobby D
06-26-2009, 07:50 AM
Is that Orange Gel coat? or urethane? (hope it's orange or I need my eyes checked....) Color code?
Your eyes are fine it is orange imron paint; don’t know the code because it was already painted when I bought it. I had the hatch done over after I installed the new engine hatch latches so if you want that code I can call the guy who painted it and get back to you.
Wow, twin Donzis, very nice! Great looking wheel too, sure sets off the boat. Are there photos of the twin?
Not yet I only have a few and the quality is poor will take some soon and post here. Used some of that Leverage polish last weekend and the gel really popped.
Oh, and photos of that '65 Goat would be great too!
Here you go, work in progress but fun to drive.
Very nice looking and I do love the drive, you will play hell hurting it.
Agree, Big Grizz set me straight on how robust this drive is.
Well I just bought the 1974 ski sporter on the classifieds and looking forward to getting it to your specs, gorgeous!
Now all I need is the paperwork on it and I can try her out!
My colors, btw, are similar, but a tint deeper, wondering if that is age?
Also, I have the original volvo outdrive, where the up down trim was sacrificed for the power steering - is there anyone on this site who knows the 270's?
You have a very nice boat and you are correct my boat is a darker color orange than yours. If I can help with sharing information shoot me a PM.

Bobby D
07-02-2009, 03:44 PM
Finally got some good weather and took the Donzi out for run #3 since the head repair and decided to give it a good hard run. After about a 20 minute run I started to smell rubber burning and could hear the motor getting louder and start to lag some. I slowed down and put her in neutral and opened the hatch, water was pouring out of the hole in the bottom of the exhaust riser where a valve was installed to drain water when not in use. I thought this would be a good idea to keep them dry during long lay-ups. Also the exhaust hose had a big hole in it and the drain valve was in the bilge. There was "steam" in the bilge and I could feel it on my legs up front. Also could really smell rubber burning now and looked over the stern and the flappers looked like they had started to get hot as well and distort. I was picking up plenty of raw water, as I can see it exiting the through the open hole in the exhaust manifold just before it enters the riser. Also, the engine temp gauge never got past about 140 degrees.
Today I decided to pull both manifolds and found them to be in very good condition considering the age with the exception of two drain plugs one on each manifold that had started to leak and were almost gone. What caused the hose to melt was while putting the motor back together the drain valve must have worked loose and during the run it vibrated off. The hot exhaust was still passing thru the riser without water to cool it down. The exhaust hose got real hot and melted and also distorted the paint color on the riser.
Tried to heat and remove the plugs and they wont budge so will have to drill and tap both drain pugs and replace with new ones and make new gaskets over the weekend.

BigGrizzly
07-03-2009, 07:31 AM
Yes that is why the hoses fried. This happened to me in 1968 with our 16.

HOWARD O
07-04-2009, 12:00 PM
It's a good thing you're on the ball when it comes to recognizing a problem early! Sounds like an easy fix for you.

Love your GTO! I have been wanting to get one for about 20 years now. You say "work in progress". Really, that thing looks absolutely beautiful to me, thanks for the photos!:yes:

DonziBuoy
07-07-2009, 08:33 PM
I have similar manifolds on my 16 ski sporter, which appear to be new. I am surprised that there was enough draining water to have fried the hose, but I guess exhaust without water gets REAL HOT.

Do you recommend that they be checked to make sure they are not rotten?

All I can say, is thank God you caught it when you did.

robertbj
07-07-2009, 10:28 PM
I have similar manifolds on my 16 ski sporter, which appear to be new. I am surprised that there was enough draining water to have fried the hose, but I guess exhaust without water gets REAL HOT.

Do you recommend that they be checked to make sure they are not rotten?

All I can say, is thank God you caught it when you did.

I would have them checked if I were you Bobby. I had years of problems with my Glenwood Aluminum manifolds. I had an internal leak that would show up every now and then and I trashed a few good engines over it. I had an exhaust valve seat drop out twice. What happens is on deceleration, on the exhaust stroke, there is a low pressure in the cylinder, and it will draw air (and water) into the cylinder. The valve seat shrinks and drops out. Sound familiar???

DonziBuoy
07-08-2009, 10:06 AM
that is discouraging. I have glenwoods too on my 350 which I was planning to use in salt water, and as we all know, metal and salt water do not mix. I am curious to know what are owners changing out to?

How do you come off the throttle to null the uptake of raw water?

I am guessing I have less than 4 inches from the plane of the exhaust line (74 ski sporter), any good recommendations for exhaust manifolds?

Jim

JimG
07-08-2009, 10:11 AM
Donzibouy, do a search on aluminum manifolds and saltwater. Lot's of posts, but the consensus is... don't sweat it. My manifolds are aluminum Edelbrocks, and I've never had an issue. Probably 30 years old, and used exclusively in salt for the last six years. Just flush good and you won't have a problem. Now if you already have an internal leak of some sort, they will have to be replaced...

Bobby D
07-14-2009, 01:33 PM
Manifold repairs complete and ready for paint, performed an internal inspection with a see snake and mirror and did not see any problems. Robert to many similarities to ignore good information on the valve seat drop. I will follow your suggestion and perform additional leak check. Tonight I will cap the inlet side and fill with water and hold overnight. May also put together a simple pressure test rig using my bicycle pump that has a gauge and press it up and hold for several minutes as well.

Bobby D
07-28-2009, 10:15 AM
Yep...Volvo 250, almost 40 years old!
What’s the old saying “Trouble comes in threes” and this would be problem #3. Decided to take the old ski sporter out for a ride after putting the overhauled exhaust manifolds and risers back on and perform an in-service leak test. I was out for about an hour with no leaks and having a really great time, and only about half mile from the ramp (again) cruising about 35 MPH when the RPM's took off. I throttled back and put it in neutral, it felt like someone started to hit the brakes when the rpms shot up. There was not any type of warning, no bang or grinding noise to speak of, nor did I hit or pick up anything in the water. After checking things out I had plenty of water to the motor and no temperature problems so I decided to put it in gear and see what happens. Went in gear as usual with no problem and I stated to accelerate, as I stared to come out of the water (under load) the same thing happened again so I backed off and headed back to the marina at a slow speed and about 1000rpm.
I haven't had an opportunity to look at it yet but I was really surprised there no noise, banging, grinding, etc. Maybe I'll have a chance to look at it tomorrow.
Hoping some of the member with old Volvo experience can share some insight as to what is causing this to happen. In my mind some possible things it could be:
Could be the coupler or a buster drive; however a busted drive usually makes plenty of noise. It crossed my mind, but there was no smell and it let go instantly. Does that sound right? If the drive lets go, especially the upper gearset it's pretty noisy...
Or maybe I spun the hub in the prop, since I was able to get back in at low speed and running at lower rpm. I believe that most of the time, a spun prop will hold enough to get you back to the dock at an idle when it cools down.

BigGrizzly
07-28-2009, 10:37 AM
There are two things the hub does not always come back when cool, especially on old props and some ultras. the other is there is a spline d coupler between the upper and lower unit that has a stop in the middle with age that stop wears away and it slipps down the shaft just enough to disengage from the upper. the new style one has a bigger stop in it. Mine now has a big stop in it and will not drop. Guess why:yes::yes:

robertbj
07-28-2009, 12:01 PM
Or maybe I spun the hub in the prop, since I was able to get back in at low speed and running at lower rpm. I believe that most of the time, a spun prop will hold enough to get you back to the dock at an idle when it cools down.

Bobby D
I had a hub let go like that once. It would hold until I was under power, just about to get to plane and then it would let go just like I had no prop at all. Then would hook up again after I went to neutral. It had no visual signs of a problem, like melted rubber coming out between the hub and prop. The only way I knew for sure it was the hub was I threw an old prop on and everything was fine.

JimG
07-28-2009, 12:21 PM
When I spun the hub on my Ultra, it was just like you described. Would just come up on plane, then the rpms would shoot up and the boat would stop. I was able to idle back to the ramp.

Bobby D
07-28-2009, 01:26 PM
I was not going comment again till I had a chance to try some of the ideas all of you had mentioned however the prop is easy to check and if I get time I will change out props after I get off work tonight. The prop that is currently on the boat is an almost new Solas however I have a not so new but almost as nice Ultra that I can try out.

BigGrizzly
07-29-2009, 08:52 AM
Bobby D, I have never spun a Solas hub. Here is an easier way to check. Shift the unit into reverse WITH OUT the engine running Then turn the prop in both directions. If the prop spins free it is the shaft coupler I mentioned. Of course it could also be a broken vertical shaft but I doubt it.

Bobby D
07-29-2009, 09:01 AM
Gentlemen,
Thanks, you guys were right-on I spun the hub on the Solas. Installed the Ultra and the boat performed great as usual! I gave her a good long run last night at various speeds from 2800 rpm to WOT and several whole shots with no problems. I did check the out drive oil first and found no evidence of water or metal shavings so I removed the Solas and as discussed there were no visual signs of a problem.
Bob

BigGrizzly
07-29-2009, 09:14 AM
Bobby is that one of my Solas props? has anybody tried to refurbish it prior to your install? this is real strange for one unless it had been redone. The only other thing could be a spacer too short then the hub flexes. At this point the nut comes loose and prop goes away into the water and lost.

Bobby D
07-29-2009, 12:25 PM
Grizz,
Yep it’s one of your props, you shipped it to me about a year ago. Matt, Jay, Kirby, you and several others helped me with the installation. I had to do a few minor mods to my drive in order to make sure it fit. You may remember that you came to LG last year with a prop for me but a couple from Michigan with a ski sporter needed it more than I did that weekend. I have been running your prop for a little over year now and have not had any issues until the other night?

BigGrizzly
07-30-2009, 07:00 PM
Now I remember, The guy with the good looking Wife and Daughter from Lancaster. If you need a hub Let me Know, This is a first for that prop.

robertbj
07-31-2009, 01:10 PM
Bobby D,
It looks like from the last pic’s that you are running without the outdrive trim tab. How dose that work, or do you have hydraulic steering? My tab is adjusted so the prop torque pulls one way at low speed, neutral pull at about mid range, and pulls to the opposite direction at WOT.

Bobby D
07-31-2009, 01:37 PM
Since I had to modify the fin anyway to make the big prop fit the drive I figured I had nothing to lose by trying to run the boat without one and see what happens. My first thought was to just cover the hole with a plate but discovered that I needed drain holes so what you are seeing is the end result and it worked out pretty well.
I ran Randy's 21 Ultra in the first and middle holes last season and performance between the fin and no fin on my boat was not noticeable. The reason may be due to the old 250 outdrive, no power steering and no power trim setup? With that said, the boat loved the no fin 21 at all speeds. The steering is good and even near neutral from about 35 mph on up to the low 50's and was not bad at WOT. The prop handled great in a moderate chop and I needed about two fingers and a light touch to keep her running straight. Chine walk was not a problem even at WOT it was very manageable. Also, maneuverability and turning were about the same and my judgment at this point is my boat may handle slightly better without the fin however I need more seat time to confirm.

Bobby D
07-31-2009, 01:43 PM
Randy,
That would be me the guy with the good looking Wife and Daughter from Lancaster. I need a hub and I found your business card in the prop box the other day can I give a call? If yes what’s a good time to call.