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View Full Version : OK, dumb A s s question here. A 540 ???



Lenny
06-11-2009, 08:32 PM
Starts out as WHAT in way of a block and gets WHAT in the way of stroke and bore???

Poodle, I read that snippit about your having a spare earlier :D

BUIZILLA
06-11-2009, 08:41 PM
Starts out as WHAT in way of a block and gets WHAT in the way of stroke and bore???
small...... and then get's bigger:kingme:

Lenny
06-11-2009, 08:48 PM
Thanks Jim, I'll take that advice to my Machine shop... :rolleyes:

Know what ??? I think I will go downstairs and key the hullsides of your LE :D

VetteLT193
06-11-2009, 09:06 PM
Think of it like a 350 to a 383...

Stock 502 bored .030 over (i think it's not .030 on a 502, but something a bit odder, but you get the point) with a bigger crank. from 4.00 stock to 4.25"

BUIZILLA
06-11-2009, 09:12 PM
Thanks Jim, I'll take that advice to my Machine shop... :rolleyes:

Know what ??? I think I will go downstairs and key the hullsides of your LE :D
it wasn't that bad of an answer :shades:

and it was true.. :boat:

RW2003
06-11-2009, 09:18 PM
Aftermarket monster block from Dart or World
Bore/Stroke: 540 c.i.d. = 4.500" x 4.250"


http://www.worldcastings.com/prods_pages/blocks/merliniii.htm
http://www.csgnetwork.com/cubicinchdispcalc.html

Donziweasel
06-11-2009, 09:19 PM
502 or 454 with a 4.5 bore and 4.25 stroke. :wink:

Donziweasel
06-11-2009, 09:22 PM
Oooops, beat me to it.

Lenny
06-11-2009, 10:02 PM
Thanks... :)

mrfixxall
06-11-2009, 10:39 PM
Aftermarket monster block from Dart or World
Bore/Stroke: 540 c.i.d. = 4.500" x 4.250"


http://www.worldcastings.com/prods_pages/blocks/merliniii.htm
http://www.csgnetwork.com/cubicinchdispcalc.html


theirs more to it then the webb site calculator,theirs differant rod legnths and the correct procedure on ballancing the assembly (internal or external) to the correct rod legnths.

A tall deck block requires a longer rod for example, if your using a 427 gm tall deck and you want to make a 540 out of it the block needs to be bored to 4.370 and you need to clearance the block for a 4.500 chank shaft and use a 6.585 rod..

A newer 8.2 liter/502 into a 540 then it needs to be punched slightly over to a 4.500 no clearance needed for the 4.250 crankshaft going into the 502 block and a 6.385 rod is used..

standard rod legnths on a 502 is a 6.185 but the longer rod is easier on the piston skirt..

Lenny
06-12-2009, 12:19 AM
Thanks :D


might be going there

BlownCrewCab
06-12-2009, 06:12 AM
allways use the longest rod you can...picture the crank spinning and as the crank throw comes around the rod is sticking up the cyl pushing the piston against the cyl wall, a shorter rod ends up with a much greater (severe) angle and pushes the piston harder against the cyl wall, whereas a longer rod pushes the piston up the hole instead of against the wall, It's like free power (after you buy the long rods of course):yes:

Pismo
06-13-2009, 08:07 AM
Nice chart

BUIZILLA
06-13-2009, 08:39 AM
my brother runs a 555, soon to be 565.. :kingme:

roadtrip se
06-13-2009, 10:00 AM
Real men run 588s!

Nothing against your brother Buiz, but I was pretty impressed with the one I saw in the Squadron Cig 20 at AOTH.

Who needs a blower, when you got cubes? But before the hairdryer boys jump me, it is a rhetorical question okay?

I do know one thing for sure, and proably one thing only, breaking 80 doesn't mean anything any more with this group.

Geesh. Just trying to keep up...

SilverBack
06-13-2009, 01:04 PM
Real men run 588s!

Nothing against your brother Buiz, but I was pretty impressed with the one I saw in the Squadron Cig 20 at AOTH.

Who needs a blower, when you got cubes? But before the hairdryer boys jump me, it is a rhetorical question okay?

I do know one thing for sure, and proably one thing only, breaking 80 doesn't mean anything any more with this group.

Geesh. Just trying to keep up...


NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT!!


So...now that you bring it up...what is the target speed for the flower pot??

BUIZILLA
06-13-2009, 01:28 PM
divulging that info is strictly against the Sandbaggers Creed :angel:

Pismo
06-13-2009, 02:40 PM
I think real men run 598s. 4.6x4.5. Awesome. 700+hp easily NA. Need a 10.2 block tho...

roadtrip se
06-13-2009, 02:50 PM
she is saddled up behind the Excursion right now for the return trip to Michigan and the onslaught of rehab and planting.

I figure about 70-75 mph on I75 ought to be good for getting us back into metro in about 8 hours....

:kingme::bighug::lightning:yes:

MDonziM
06-13-2009, 03:48 PM
allways use the longest rod you can...picture the crank spinning and as the crank throw comes around the rod is sticking up the cyl pushing the piston against the cyl wall, a shorter rod ends up with a much greater (severe) angle and pushes the piston harder against the cyl wall, whereas a longer rod pushes the piston up the hole instead of against the wall, It's like free power (after you buy the long rods of course):yes:

I dont think this point can be emphasized too much. "punching" out a 454/502 block to a 540 typically results in sideloading the cyl walls. My mechanic wouldnt use my 502 ...

mrfixxall
06-13-2009, 03:55 PM
I dont think this point can be emphasized too much. "punching" out a 454/502 block to a 540 typically results in sideloading the cyl walls. My mechanic wouldnt use my 502 ...

what we were saying you can use a 6.385 rod in a 502 block weather its a stock 4.000 crank or a 4.250 crank,,the +.200 makes it easied on the cylinder walls!

theirs alot of people using a 502 block for 540's and they have no issues..

Pismo
06-13-2009, 04:17 PM
what we were saying you can use a 6.385 rod in a 502 block weather its a stock 4.000 crank or a 4.250 crank,,the +.200 makes it easied on the cylinder walls!
theirs alot of people using a 502 block for 540's and they have no issues..

I concur and if you had a 10.2 block you may as well stroke further than 4.25"

MDonziM
06-14-2009, 10:25 AM
what we were saying you can use a 6.385 rod in a 502 block weather its a stock 4.000 crank or a 4.250 crank,,the +.200 makes it easied on the cylinder walls!

theirs alot of people using a 502 block for 540's and they have no issues..

I'm sure your right, I am not an eng builder. Maby it was the crank he was using or maby my mechanic is just overly cautious. Now I'm curious though, I'll get all the specs on the setup we went with.

Marshall

mrfixxall
06-14-2009, 11:24 AM
I'm sure your right, I am not an eng builder. Maby it was the crank he was using or maby my mechanic is just overly cautious. Now I'm curious though, I'll get all the specs on the setup we went with.

Marshall


And get what ever parts he didnt use,or did your block go into his boat? chit! my old cigarette has 598ci in it and their the old style botie blocks pushing 700 hp with no issues..

MDonziM
06-14-2009, 07:50 PM
And get what ever parts he didnt use,or did your block go into his boat? chit! my old cigarette has 598ci in it and their the old style botie blocks pushing 700 hp with no issues..

No, my 502 is sitting in his shop minus the power steering pump, if your interested. His boat is an outerlimits with 850 hp supercharged 598's but I got a good price on a barely used merlin block, crower crank, keith eikert racing pan, dist and ignition from another customer of his. Bought edelbrock performer heads, je pistons, fueltech carb etc. Should be done in a couple days, I'll post a couple pics.

The Hedgehog
06-15-2009, 06:54 AM
I think real men run 598s. 4.6x4.5. Awesome. 700+hp easily NA. Need a 10.2 block tho...

Yep, Eddie's 598 N/As make over 750hp. Nothing like the sound of a large high compression engine.

Lenny
06-15-2009, 10:35 AM
So from a TORQUE only perspective, which way would one to prefer to build a N/A motor to achieve these gains?

ie: bigger stroke than bore?
a square motor?
or larger bore than stroke. ?

Since revs are not that important and low 5's is what we all run basically and weight between different size motors once you're into a big block is minimal, what would you build for maximum torque, and an all day long engine ? (as in dependable/reliable)

SilverBack
06-15-2009, 11:03 AM
Lenny..the easiest way to get to the 540 is with the 502 block and by a 4.25" stroke crank kit. Like it has been stated ..longer rods are a little bit better when it comes time to buy the kit. They just move the piston pin further up in the piston to allow for the longer rod. You will be buying the whole crank kit so that is not a big deal. Besides for side loading the longer rod also increases dwell time and the amount of acceleration of the piston as it goes through the stroke.

Generally speaking more stroke gives you more torque but to do that you will need to start out with a 454 block and notch it to clear the crank. I think you go to a 4.30 stroke but I am not sure. There are old truck block 454's that had a taller deck that would work but I don't think that you will want to go that route.

Personally I think that a bigger bore and shorter stroke would be better for a classic. I might even think about an aftermarket block that will allow you to get much bigger on your bore.

The Hedgehog
06-15-2009, 11:07 AM
I dont think this point can be emphasized too much. "punching" out a 454/502 block to a 540 typically results in sideloading the cyl walls. My mechanic wouldnt use my 502 ...

My 540 started as a 502. It works fine and could easily be taken to 555

mrfixxall
06-15-2009, 11:09 AM
Lenny you also want to consider which cylinder head to go with,the merlin cast iron large oval port head is a torque monster too.. a friend of mine is running a late model 454 block punched .060 over with a 4.250 crank which makes it a 496 cid with the merlin oval port heads and hes making a little over 600hp and 698 ft lbs of torque @ 5400 rpm..

Pismo
06-15-2009, 11:43 AM
Maximum cubes yields maximum torque. The bore vs stroke ratio is more myth than fact. It is the added cubes that give the torque.

MDonziM
06-15-2009, 06:46 PM
Well, for what its worth I guess I have a 539 not a 540.( according to pismo's chart) 4.56 bore , 4.125 stroke with the 6.385 rods.

MDonziM
06-15-2009, 07:23 PM
Damn, missed it by that much!!

Exactly. LOL. I'll see if he'll take something off the bill.

BigGrizzly
06-16-2009, 03:35 PM
Wow All this rod length and piston talk makes me confused. The long rod makes it lazy over top dead center and changes characteristics. As for the long being mor durable then a shorter on depends on the length of the rod. In the 540 it doesn't make a whole lot of difference. The shorter rod will yield more HP if done correctly. This whole thread depends on the combination of parts.