New Project..... Which is the best hull???

[SilverBack]

It looks like there may be a new project in the works. I have a hull and even a boat in mind but wanted to get some different peoples take on it. Which hull would be best to put an all aluminum 698 CI Donovan with a 5 liter Whipple (Read 1200 HP and 1500 ft/# of torque) and an Arneson in.

Criterion
Blackhawk
22C
20 Ft Cig

Which one do you think would run the best with this setup and which would be the most desirable boat in the end?

[Planetwarmer]

In my opinion, I think the blackhawk's hull is more suited for the speeds that combo will attain.

[zelatore]

I'm not saying it shouldn't/couldn't be done, but when little more than half that power can push any one of those to triple digits.....just what are you going to end up with here?

[Conquistador_del_mar]

From the list of alternatives, I would chose the Blackhawk.
That being said, if you definitely want a deep V hull, I would like to see that combination for safety reasons in an old school 28 SS Cigarette with a modified pad added :yes:. My $.02. Bill

[Planetwarmer]

From the list of alternatives, I would chose the Blackhawk.
That being said, if you definitely want a deep V hull, I would like to see that combination for safety reasons in an old school 28 SS Cigarette with a modified pad added :yes:. My $.02. Bill

I agree. That motor combo sounds dangerous in a 20 to 22 foot deep V to me.

[SilverBack]

I agree that you can not use the full potential of the power in this hull. My brother already has the engine. He just runs on small lakes and he has a 100+ MPH bass boat and likes the idea of having something really neat to put his engine in. He would never leave the boat in the water overnight and never run in big water. The 28 or a cat would not be his thing. I think that after getting some more information and and talking to a very on top of things board member that maybe he does need to drop the blower. He like the idea of a blower so who knows if he will do that. I am pretty sure that he could get close to 900 to 1000 hp without it and still run on pump gas. The drive is pretty much out of necessity. There are not many drives that will handle that torque and HP. I know that Ilmor makes some really nice drives now and I know that there are splitters that will allow you to run 2 drives also.

He wants something that has classic lines and is sporty. Something that can handle a big tall deck and big tube headers and 4 inch exhaust. He is just kicking this idea around and that is why I am asking for opinions. I know that any of this is uncharted territory. I know that no one knows for sure how it will turn out. He has been on the 100 MPH bass boat scene for most of his life and I think he just wants something different but he loves to go fast. He got the bug when he road in my boat going close to 100 but he laughs at me all the time for having such a big boat. He does like how these boats run and ride though. I think that the 22 ft boats will be low enough and quick enough but still give him a much better ride than the Allison.

Thanks for all the help guys...keep it coming!


I just wanted to add that he will always run on a lake that is like glass. He even more than me never runs in any big water and he has no desire to catch any air. He just wants something that does look like it should go 150 mph like a cat and has classic lines that he can play with the bass boat guys with. Look at the picture in my signature and that day most all of the bass boats had cleared out because the wind was blowing too hard. That is as rough of water as he will ever run on. He is not the kind of guy that will ever trailer this thing out of state to other places or anything like that.


I included a picture to show you the roughest the lake ever gets. There are no cruisers on the lake either. The biggest wake on the lake is from my mom's 23 ft deck boat.

[Carl C]

Too much power for any of those hulls, Keith. I can't vote for any of them. Mr. X is going well over 100 mph in his 22C with an ilmor (750 hp?).

[SilverBack]

I think that maybe he he has the same problem that Al Copeland had. He like to squeeze too much engine into too small of a chassis. These are a couple of Al Copeland's Motor Bikes.

[SilverBack]

I am starting to think that maybe I am steering my brother wrong on this project. Thanks for bringing me back down to earth guys! I knew that the boat would be fast but I don't want to put him in harms way!

[widowmaker]

Please guys, let this be the last post in this thread.

[BUIZILLA]

non Whipple 698 sounds purty cool... :kingme:

[SilverBack]

Buiz..thanks for the comment. The more that I think about it and the more that people chime in here I do believe that the Whipple idea has to go. I think that 850 to 900 on 89 octane will do all that these hulls can handle and then it opens up other drive options too.

[Last Real Texan]

From the list of alternatives, I would chose the Blackhawk.
That being said, if you definitely want a deep V hull, I would like to see that combination for safety reasons in an old school 28 SS Cigarette with a modified pad added :yes:. My $.02. Bill

+1 for the texan

[SilverBack]

+1 for the texan


Bill and Tex...I know what you guys mean! If it were up to me I would like to see him do it in a 27 ZR. I think that would be the way to go but he likes smaller classic lower slung type boats. He is balking at anything over 22 feet long.

[Last Real Texan]

Understandable....I did vote Blackhawk however.

Tex

[The Hedgehog]

From the list of alternatives, I would chose the Blackhawk.
That being said, if you definitely want a deep V hull, I would like to see that combination for safety reasons in an old school 28 SS Cigarette with a modified pad added :yes:. My $.02. Bill

Yep. Classic lines and a wave crushing hull that can handle some power.

[gcarter]

Keith, too bad your cousin is wrong....LOL

It has to be a 28' or so w/low freeboard.

[SilverBack]

Keith, too bad your cousin is wrong....LOL

It has to be a 28' or so w/low freeboard.

George...please explain?? Are you saying the 28 SS would be better for this also?

[mattyboy]

a 24 pantera or a cig firefox or superboat would be interesting a spitfire would work as well

[gcarter]

George...please explain?? Are you saying the 28 SS would be better for this also?

Yep, the extra length would solve a lot of potential problems.

[gcarter]

a 24 pantera or a cig firefox or superboat would be interesting a spitfire would work as well
If you wanted to stay Donzi, the Spitfire would be interesting.

[SilverBack]

Thanks George and Matty...I have never even heard of a SpitFire!

[mrfixxall]

Thanks George and Matty...I have never even heard of a SpitFire!


Heres what a spit fire looks like ! 24 footer

http://community.webshots.com/photo/fullsize/1128133719011584675CNzvsi

[mattyboy]

spitfires are nice but a firefox is the coolest boat on the planet :yes:

[zelatore]

spitfires are nice but a firefox is the coolest boat on the planet :yes:

yeah, but you have to think in Russian to drive it...

(sorry, couldn't resist)

[gcarter]

I think the Spitfire is one of the most beautiful boats Donzi ever produced. Bill (Olredalert) is re-doing one right now. Most came w/SBC's and SBF's and with TRS drives. All of which were a sign of the times.
I think it would make a great single engine boat w/good power.
24' is probably on the minimum side for that power and would make a really useable boat. A 28' would be better, if for no reason other than it would be appreciably more stable.

[Ghost]

Might take some rework of the stringer setup in the motorbox, but what about a Magnum 27? And hey, it practically looks just like a 22C, just scaled up with 5 more feet of length.

(And as long as the Spitfire name came up, just have to pile on--may be the best lines of any Donzi ever built.)

[The Hedgehog]

yeah, but you have to think in Russian to drive it...
(sorry, couldn't resist)

Man, I almost forgot about that movie:shocking:

[glashole]

I don't think it would take much to make a blackhawk run pretty close to 100 mph

I would think the drive would be the weak link but if it is in the budget to replace it with an arneson later it would be cool to just try it out

I have about 500 hp and can run mid to high 80's

I would think that the 700 hp motor of yours would at least get mid 90's and switch the drive to a 32:1 rather than the 50:1 and you might have a bass boat hunter

that all being said I have yet to find a 100 mph bass boat around here that can realistically get close to that on GPS

if you are running a calm lake the blackhawk would be my choice

there have been ramblings here about a secret blackhawk/arneson project already in the works............

[SilverBack]

How often do you see these things for sale? I have do admit they are both really nice boats. It is like I said...I have never even seen one of these. I did see a Squadron X or something like that ...it was really nice looking. Thanks for all of the good advice. I can't get the picture of the Spit Fire to pull up. Does anybody have another picture? Thanks again for all of the help!

[SilverBack]

I don't think it would take much to make a blackhawk run pretty close to 100 mph

I would think the drive would be the weak link but if it is in the budget to replace it with an arneson later it would be cool to just try it out

I have about 500 hp and can run mid to high 80's

I would think that the 700 hp motor of yours would at least get mid 90's and switch the drive to a 32:1 rather than the 50:1 and you might have a bass boat hunter

that all being said I have yet to find a 100 mph bass boat around here that can realistically get close to that on GPS

if you are running a calm lake the blackhawk would be my choice

there have been ramblings here about a secret blackhawk/arneson project already in the works............


Thanks Glashole....I was thinking the same thing to begin with. My brother really likes the looks of the Criterion. It has room for a trans in the boat. I think that it may have a little more clearance for the tall deck and big tube headers also.


I had never seen one of these Spitfire or FoxFire boats. They are longer but still look more like a classic.

[mattyboy]

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=56307

have pics of all of the donzi 24 hulls

[mattyboy]

me likey this one

super secret donzi classic prototype 26 classic ;)

[mattyboy]

the lake george pirate likes this one ALOT!!!!!

http://www.panteraboats.com/newboatpantera24se07.html



another classic deep vee hull that rides very big for it's size

[SilverBack]

That is sweet Matty!! Very sweet!:yes:

[roadtrip se]

You want an awakening? You should see what horespower does to the small boats.

Mine for example. 500HP is starting to lift the stringers out of the boat. Yes, it has seen some big water in its time, but I can't write all of it off to the occassional big water outing on Lake Michigan. The boat is going to get a full rehab, while the 500 gets a freshening this summer.

As for hulls, the BH has already shown itself to be a hand full at anything over 80. You can get plenty of speed out of a stock Classic 22 hull that has been fortified and upgraded. We have seen lots of this beast over the past few years at the runs.

Now, all of this being said. Any small boat with lots of power is NOT a starter boat, period. A sober, savy, smart, and very experienced driver is the only person that should sit behind the wheel of one of these things at over 80.

[SilverBack]

You want an awakening? You should see what horespower does to the small boats.

Mine for example. 500HP is starting to lift the stringers out of the boat. Yes, it has seen some big water in its time, but I can't write all of it off to the occassional big water outing on Lake Michigan. The boat is going to get a full rehab, while the 500 gets a freshening this summer.

As for hulls, the BH has already shown itself to be a hand full at anything over 80. You can get plenty of speed out of a stock Classic 22 hull that has been fortified and upgraded. We have seen lots of this beast over the past few years at the runs.

Now, all of this being said. Any small boat with lots of power is NOT a starter boat, period. A sober, savy, smart, and very experienced driver is the only person that should sit behind the wheel of one of these things at over 80.


Thanks for the comments Todd

I had planned on having to beef up stringers and transom and install bigger fuel tanks. My brother took a look at this thread and has decided that this may not be the best thing to get into and might take more direct research on his part. I think that his bass boat is looking better all the time to him! Like it was stated earlier that most 100 mph bass boats are really 80 mph bass boats but my brother and a few others do really run up over 100 mph. I guess that I am just lucky to be able to run up there with them. I appreciate all of the help here and the advice but I think that he is going to set back and think it over for a while. I don't think he is ever going to get to use that engine!!:nilly:

I guess that I had better keep a close eye on the stringers in the ZX!!

[ZekesterbluH3]

Heres what a spit fire looks like ! 24 footer

http://community.webshots.com/photo/fullsize/1128133719011584675CNzvsi

Does the Spitfire share any traits with a Hornet 3? I'm looking at the pic, it looks like stretched hornet, or vice versa, is the hornet a short Spit?

That Spit is a beautiful ship....

[mattyboy]

no they are two different boats the hornet is a 19 degree deadrise the spitfire is a 24 degree deadrise

[Last Real Texan]

Why not find a ski race boat to do....#6 drive and built for the riggors of high Hp demands...just a thought

[SilverBack]

Why not find a ski race boat to do....#6 drive and built for the riggors of high Hp demands...just a thought


I can't ever find any information on those things!

[blackhawk]

Blackhawks are a breeze to drive on flat water. It's in the chop where they require a "6th sense". lol

IMO 1200 hp is WAY too much for a 20-24' boat. A 700-750hp Blackhawk would be sweet though. I agree with glashole you should be around the century mark with that hp. And running 31 props with 1.32:1 ratio at 5500-5700 should do it.

There is my vote! :D

[SilverBack]

I don't think that I have ever seen a poll come out this even! They are truly all great boats that is for sure. I agree that the thing would be way overkill even without the blower. I guess that is why he is wanting to stop and think about it and take another look. I think that I may bring him to Eufaula so he can see some of them first hand. I appreciate everyone helping out on this thread!

[Last Real Texan]

Did someone say Ski race boats....http://www.riverdavesplace.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19600

[Last Real Texan]

I would seriously think about a Stoker....super fast and a bunch of ski racers use them...along with Force, Conley and superboat....Talk to the west coast guys at dana or IMCO and they will steer him in the right direction...
There was a stoker a while back with about over 1000 hp and it ran over 130 safely

[The Hedgehog]

Even to absurd folks like myself you hit a point where how much is too much. Like I have a 66 Mustang, do you think it would be ok with a 6,000hp drag motor?

I could not imagine a 22 Donzi with my engine much less 1,200 hp (not that I have not had the thought of putting it in my 18).

I am with Tex on the ski racer idea. If he is thinking about strapping a crazy amount of power in a small boat, look at one of those first.

That kind of power would be crazy in a 27 footer but I would be lying if I said I did not want to see it done.

[SilverBack]

Thanks Tex!! The only bad thing about those boat where we live is they LOOK fast. That is why he doesn't like cat's and tunnels and the such. He likes sleepers. He is just jealous of me.:wink: The bass boats can't wait to come out and try to spank the old Donzi. They are sure that it is a 65 to 70 MPH boat!:pimp:

I am going to look into that link. I found skirace.com and letstalkaboutskiracing.com or something like that but it didn't have much on the boats.

[SilverBack]

Even to absurd folks like myself you hit a point where how much is too much. Like I have a 66 Mustang, do you think it would be ok with a 6,000hp drag motor?

I could not imagine a 22 Donzi with my engine much less 1,200 hp (not that I have not had the thought of putting it in my 18).

I am with Tex on the ski racer idea. If he is thinking about strapping a crazy amount of power in a small boat, look at one of those first.

That kind of power would be crazy in a 27 footer but I would be lying if I said I did not want to see it done.

Go to the 540 fun thread and tell us about the M-3!! I am hoping for good news!!

[The Hedgehog]

Go to the 540 fun thread and tell us about the M-3!! I am hoping for good news!!

Me too. Waiting on the call back

[Ghost]

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=46858&stc=1&d=1244498867

[joseph m. hahnl]

How about a Donzi FireFox:wink:http://www.donzi.net/photos/osaffell652.jpg



Here's the model list http://www.donzi.net/dlist/index.htm

[Last Real Texan]

stoker....this boat runs 95 with a 500 efi stock!

it is sold but there are others out there...

http://www.performanceboats.com/html/forums/showthread.php?t=12084&highlight=stoker

[gcarter]

[quote=SilverBack;518135]Thanks Tex!! The only bad thing about those boat where we live is they LOOK fast. That is why he doesn't like cat's and tunnels and the such. He likes sleepers. quote]
How about a ski boat w/Bayliner stickers all over it?
Plus some big mufflers.

[SilverBack]

[quote=SilverBack;518135]Thanks Tex!! The only bad thing about those boat where we live is they LOOK fast. That is why he doesn't like cat's and tunnels and the such. He likes sleepers. quote]
How about a ski boat w/Bayliner stickers all over it?
Plus some big mufflers.


That is funny George...I already have big mufflers on my 25....now all I need are the Bayliner stickers:wink: