Valvetrain Upgrade

[Barry Eller]

Dropped another valve in the 502.

I just figured out that my CompCams Magnum Roller Rocker Arms are only
good for less than 350 lbs open spring pressure.

My open spring pressure for my CompCam Xtreme Marine cam is 383 lbs open spring pressure.

I have ordered CompCams Pro Magnum Roller Rocker Arms and CompCams stud girdles.

Keep your fingers crossed for me!!!:crossfing:

[MOP]

Vince my machinist did not like the Comps I bought, he had me swap to Harland Sharp. If nothing else they are a much better looking rocker and appear stronger.

[MOP]

Barry that keeper does not look seated in the photo!

[Barry Eller]

Barry that keeper does not look seated in the photo!
It isn't. The rockers are wobbling and not connecting with the tip of the valve. The Comp Magnum rockers are not true roller rockers, only roller tipped.
The rockers I have ordered are: http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=1320-16&Category_Code=
Your rockers are good looking, I just want strength these seem to be the best bang for the buck.

[Barry Eller]

I'm pulling the heads tomorrow and taking them to the machine shop. This is the #7 exhaust valve, looks like a lot of heat generated there. (color of rockers look overheated). Engine is out of the boat and I'm going to do whatever it needs...again.:bonk:

[BUIZILLA]

where is the broken piece of the missing end of the guideplate? if that broke first, then the roller went off the edge of the valve tip... not sure why the rockers are colored like that unless you have an oil issue, the color seems to be inconsistent from rocker to rocker... I have used the COMP Pro Magnum rockers very successfully...

[Barry Eller]

where is the broken piece of the missing end of the guideplate? if that broke first, then the roller went off the edge of the valve tip... not sure why the rockers are colored like that unless you have an oil issue, the color seems to be inconsistent from rocker to rocker... I have used the COMP Pro Magnum rockers very successfully...

The missing end of the guide plate is in my hand in one of the photos.

You are correct about the roller going off the end of the valve tip. They wobble around with the amount of open spring pressure I have.

Here are my cam and spring specs:

Comp Cams Hyd roller camshaft: part # 01-775-8

Cam Specs----INT EXH
Adv Dur: 271 279
Dur @ .050: 224 232 lobe sep: 112.0
Valve Lift: .591 .601


Valve Springs Part # 930-16 Comp Cams

Seat load: 153 lbs @ 1.9000"
Open: 383 lbs @ 1.250"
Spring Rate: 353 lbs/in
Coil Bind: 1.160


Tech support at CompCams told me Magnum Roller Rocker Arms are for applications with milder cams than I have. I'm doing what they recommend.

Some of the color discoloration is from the time my MSD distributor adjustable collar came loose and dislodged from my oil pump gear...no oil pressure...I didn't notice...motor quit running...you know how that made me feel...$$$$$

Now, fuel pump is wired to oil pressure sending unit!!!!

[mrfixxall]

Im with buiz on this one, barry can you give us your cam specs,just the lift..and if its a roller cam are you using the stock gm lifters..

you may need lash caps on the end of the valve,it will keep the tip of the valve in check and wont distroy the valve keepers..

[Barry Eller]

Im with buiz on this one, barry can you give us your cam specs,just the lift..and if its a roller cam are you using the stock gm lifters..

No CompCams Hyd Roller lifters and CompCams Hi-Tec pushrods, CompCams guide plates as well. Everything in the valve train is CompCams parts. Even the adjustable roller timing chain and gears.

[mrfixxall]

No CompCams Hyd Roller lifters and CompCams Hi-Tec pushrods, CompCams guide plates as well. Everything in the valve train is CompCams parts. Even the adjustable roller timing chain and gears.


Just checking,,max lift for stock roller lifter is .570,if you go over that then you will loose oil at the tip of the push rod.

[Barry Eller]

Just checking,,max lift for stock roller lifter is .570,if you go over that then you will loose oil at the tip of the push rod.

That is correct.

CompCams Tech Support told me that stabilizing my rockers is what I need to do. Thus the stud girdles and their strong roller rockers is their recommendation. They were pleased that I at least have ARP Studs.

[BUIZILLA]

I've run the Pro Magnum 1.7 rockers at 400# seat pressure, .714 lift, and over 8,100 rpm without issue in my Mighty Mouse.... short of a girdle mount rocker, I swear by them..

the stock replacement roller tips won't last (read not happy) past 135-140# seat and 275# over the nose and .520-.540 lift... the main instability is the ball pivot wobble effect as rpm rises.. I know of several people using the self centering roller rockers AND guideplates...

the .348/.353 lobe ramp you have is a tad fast for a stock GM lifter and total lift over .560, but that's just MY opinion...

you NEED to figure out why the broken off end piece just decided to leave the party.. the break appears to be downward...

I know you didn't ask for advice, but I thought it might be relevant and helpfull

[Barry Eller]

I've run the Pro Magnum 1.7 rockers at 400# seat pressure, .714 lift, and over 8,100 rpm without issue in my Mighty Mouse.... short of a girdle mount rocker, I swear by them..

the stock replacement roller tips won't last (read not happy) past 135-140# seat and 275# over the nose and .520-.540 lift... the main instability is the ball pivot wobble effect as rpm rises.. I know of several people using the self centering roller rockers AND guideplates...

the .348/.353 lobe ramp you have is a tad fast for a stock GM lifter and total lift over .560, but that's just MY opinion...

you NEED to figure out why the broken off end piece just decided to leave the party.. the break appears to be downward...

I know you didn't ask for advice, but I thought it might be relevant and helpfull

Your advice is always welcome! I'm not using GM lifters, they are CompCams lifters.

I think the guide plate broke because the rocker arm jumped off the tip of the valve, the pushrods I have are so hard they broke the guide plate when the rocker rotated off the valve.

[BUIZILLA]

I think the plate broke first, then the rocker turned sideways a tad.... hard to imagine the rocker turning first off the valve stem with the guideplate in place...

[Barry Eller]

I think the plate broke first, then the rocker turned sideways a tad.... hard to imagine the rocker turning first off the valve stem with the guideplate in place...

Could have, I can only speculate at this point. BUT it damn sure broke!

I'll know more after pulling the heads, and I am going to pull pistons and rods to inspect them as well. Who knows what goes on in the "MINDS" of Big Block Chevys!!! Especially in the weakest part..."Valvetrains"!!!

I'll just fix it and enjoy till the next time! I just try to take it all in stride as best as I can!

Oh, Buizilla, I have been approached by a RV dealer, wanting me to sell RV's for them...I told them that I am still on Sabbatical from working...but the carrot they are dangling is tempting. I may need some tutoring about motor-homes if they keep twisting my arm.

[BUIZILLA]

Oh, Buizilla, I have been approached by a RV dealer, wanting me to sell RV's for them...I told them that I am still on Sabbatical from working...but the carrot they are dangling is tempting. I may need some tutoring about motor-homes if they keep twisting my arm. off topic.. but I hear the towables and under 30' class C chassis is steady... small popups and tents are back in a big way with family's... over 36' class A is comatose unless you work for a wholesale liquidator... another downside is if Oby gets his way we won't be able to buy anything to tow them with in 4 years anyways... :frown: my carbon footprint is about 17 tons.. :pimp:

[Barry Eller]

off topic.. but I hear the towables and under 30' class C chassis is steady... small popups and tents are back in a big way with family's... over 36' class A is comatose unless you work for a wholesale liquidator... another downside is if Oby gets his way we won't be able to buy anything to tow them with in 4 years anyways... :frown: my carbon footprint is about 17 tons.. :pimp:


Cool...I only need to work 5 more years...then I will be 62 and can get my 401k/201k $ and SS if it is still available. I have some rental property I can sell then too.

I'll update the 502 repairs as they happen.

[BUIZILLA]

I hope I make it to 62... :nilly: :boggled:

[MOP]

Barry use the Macro setting on your camera for those close up shots, they will come out sharp/clear. I would run a thin strong magnet through the low spots where the oil gathers to see if you can find some of the metal shards!

[Barry Eller]

Barry use the Macro setting on your camera for those close up shots, they will come out sharp/clear. I would run a thin strong magnet through the low spots where the oil gathers to see if you can find some of the metal shards!


Cell phone doesn't have a Macro setting.:kingme: Just kidding, I was just too close and the digital camera I used isn't high tech.

I think I have solved my problem.

I purchased my "Camshaft Kit" from CPPerfromance that included cam, springs, lifters, keepers, pushrods,etc. This was supposed to be a matched set with everything working in harmony.

I pulled out all of the old parts boxes and called CompCams tech support again this morning. It seems CPPerformance sent me the wrong lifters. They sent .300 taller retro HYD roller tappets that are .300 too long.

CompCams tech support gave me the correct lifter part #'s and I just ordered them this morning from Summit Racing. (Summit Racing has great pricing, they are in Georgia and I get my parts next day from them).

Heads are going to the machine shop to be checked, (read valve job).

I have not really been satisfied with the way the engine was running, now I know why.

Well, I'm going to have a bullet proof valve train now with full roller rockers and stud girdles AND the correct lifters!!!

[Barry Eller]

I hope I make it to 62... :nilly: :boggled:
I hope we BOTH do!!!:angel::angel:

[mrfixxall]

Cell phone doesn't have a Macro setting.:kingme: Just kidding, I was just too close and the digital camera I used isn't high tech.
I think I have solved my problem.
I purchased my "Camshaft Kit" from CPPerfromance that included cam, springs, lifters, keepers, pushrods,etc. This was supposed to be a matched set with everything working in harmony.
I pulled out all of the old parts boxes and called CompCams tech support again this morning. It seems CPPerformance sent me the wrong lifters. They sent .300 taller retro HYD roller tappets that are .300 too long.
CompCams tech support gave me the correct lifter part #'s and I just ordered them this morning from Summit Racing. (Summit Racing has great pricing, they are in Georgia and I get my parts next day from them).
Heads are going to the machine shop to be checked, (read valve job).
I have not really been satisfied with the way the engine was running, now I know why.
Well, I'm going to have a bullet proof valve train now with full roller rockers and stud girdles AND the correct lifters!!!

.300 + ,now that would throw the geometry off being over 1/4 '' to long..im surprised you didnt do more damage...
me personally you cany buy a better lifter then the new moral
/ isky hyd roller lifter..

make sure you ck your pistons i think that may be a little steep for a stock 502 piston with the shallow valve relief..

[zelatore]

(Summit Racing has great pricing, they are in Georgia and I get my parts next day from them).


Summit is in Georgia now? They used to be in Ohio. In fact, I can recall buying a set of Harland Sharp roller rockers from them for a 302 I drag raced when I lived in Indiana....

(see how I cleverly worked Indiana, Summit, and an alternative brand rockers into such a short note?)

[CHACHI]

Summit is in Georgia now? They used to be in Ohio.

Second warehouse.

Ken

[Barry Eller]

After reciving a PM from Zinger, I measured my pushrods. (Thanks Jeff) Talking with CompCams tech support. The problem was pushrod length. My cam kit came with a set of compCams HI Energy pushrods that were matched to the lifters. I thought I wanted the chrome molly pushrods, so I ordered standard size thinking that was what I needed, they are too long. I found the pushrods cpperformance sent, still new in the package in my tool box and all is good. No piston damage, no bent valves. Heads are at the machine shop and will be ready next week. I'm feeling real good now!

Thanks for all the advice guys. I DO appreciate it.

Yippy-Kai-Yay!!!

[f_inscreenname]

God I learned so much about valve train stuff from my small block Mopar. No adjustable rockers! You either got it right buy pushrod lengths or your crap is all over the place. In the bilge, oil pan, cylinders…….. A simple cam change meant everything had to be re-measured (lift at the rocker, lift at the lifters, pressure on the spring…..) and then re-bought if you could find it.
Then I went to BBChevy. What a dream. You get a matching set and drop it in. Add longer studs and roller rockers and now you are really talking.