Cruisers, who's got them and ...

[The Hedgehog]

how do you like them. I know that there are a number of us like Zelatore and SE. Who else goes to the roomy but slow dark side.

As for me, I have a 37 Foot Marinette Marquis Aft Cabin named Roller Girl. It is roomy, fun and I like it. Will I give up the fast boat? Heck no, but I have a great time on the cruiser.

[Just Say N20]

38' Carver Aft Cabin. Very similar to your but with a dinette. Absolutely love it!
17 mph cruise speed burning 2.5 gallons/mile.

[mrfixxall]

Hmmmm, would you consider a 33'formula with twin blue motors a cruiser? :)

It sleeps 5,has chitter,sink,22''flat screen and a shower off the back of the boat..

[mrfixxall]

BTW its name,,Hedge is gonna like this one..TALK DIRTY TO ME..

[Just Say N20]

Hmmmm, would you consider a 33'formula with twin blue motors a cruiser? :)
It sleeps 5,has chitter,sink,22''flat screen and a shower off the back of the boat..

Way, WAY too fast! ". . . the roomy but slow dark side."

[The Hedgehog]

BTW its name,,Hedge is gonna like this one..TALK DIRTY TO ME..

Nice name!

[The Hedgehog]

38' Carver Aft Cabin. Very similar to your but with a dinette. Absolutely love it!
17 mph cruise speed burning 2.5 gallons/mile.

I sure would not mind the dinette. Having a wet bar is not bad though. This pic is before a number of updates. It is amazing what new curtains and a few goodies will do.

I love loading up and taking an overnight up the Tn river gorge to dock up at downtown Chattanooga for the night.

[Last Real Texan]

Been working on this one for a while now....the spousel unit just can't seem to get on board with it, the tough sell is we would have to keep it 3.5 hours away but the good thing is it would be in the slip next to the Hedgehog once the purchase was deemed OK by her....won't be long ...but she is coming around, she asked me the other day if it was still for sale....she is coming around...she is coming around....she is coming around.....if I keep saying this maybe it will speed things up.

Tex

[BUIZILLA]

there's some nice Post's and Eggy's on eBay...

[Last Real Texan]

this is the ultimate goal but just not justifiable for the Tn river

[glashole]

tex

we think alot alike, next boat would be a sportfisherman for me

have an express type cruiser now and spend the majority of my time on it, lots of fun, lots of room for people and their stuff, good times

but, it isn't very fast

[SilverBack]

Thanks for starting this thread Hedge Hog!!! You know that I have the opposite problem as Tex...my wife wants me to start looking for one. I would have to keep a cruiser in New Orleans or Baton Rouge. Either is only about an hour and a half away. I have been looking some and the Carvers look pretty nice. I guess for 4 to 7 people that I would need to at least get into the 40 feet range. What do you guys think? Give me some do's and don'ts some good brands and bad brands to look out for. Do any of you Gulf people cruise up and down the gulf coast? I work out in the gulf a lot and have spent some time out in the gulf on larger steel and aluminum boats. How do these things ride? I don't know anything about what I am getting into so any advice will be appreciated!!

[CJmike]

Those Donzi Yachts are blinging. The Hedgehog should be sporting one.....

[The Hedgehog]

Thanks for starting this thread Hedge Hog!!! You know that I have the opposite problem as Tex...my wife wants me to start looking for one. I would have to keep a cruiser in New Orleans or Baton Rouge. Either is only about an hour and a half away. I have been looking some and the Carvers look pretty nice. I guess for 4 to 7 people that I would need to at least get into the 40 feet range. What do you guys think? Give me some do's and don'ts some good brands and bad brands to look out for. Do any of you Gulf people cruise up and down the gulf coast? I work out in the gulf a lot and have spent some time out in the gulf on larger steel and aluminum boats. How do these things ride? I don't know anything about what I am getting into so any advice will be appreciated!!

I keep mine about and hour and 15 minutes away and that is not bad at all. Most in the 37-41 foot range have similar space and are not bad around the dock. Obviously bigger is better. After that, you take a nice jump to the 48 foot range which to me feels like a much bigger boat. Then you can move to 58's and it gets crazy from there. The biggest boat I have actually driven was a 48 and that's a BOAT. I would imagine that Tex and others here have driven upwards of 60+ footers.

I grew up around boats but have not personally owned a cruiser long so I will let others pipe up about their experience and brand preferences. I am a lake guy and can get away with equipment that is not as beefy as stuff I would run on the coast. My aluminum cruiser is great for my application and works well in bays or intercoastals but I would want the option to run outside. If I ran on the coast I would probably spend 2 -3 times as much. What would I get for that? That is pretty tough. I love the lines of a sport fisher. I also like the lines of a trawler but can you say slow. Yes, there are also some nice cruisers out there. Decisions, decisions....man it is good that I don't live on big water.

I got mine to get started in the larger boat world but don't see selling it to move up for a long time. It really is a blast.

Do a little homework. There are some great buys out there and it is probably not as bad as you think.

[The Hedgehog]

Those Donzi Yachts are blinging. The Hedgehog should be sporting one.....

They are the PORN! A set of MTU's.......:nilly::nilly:

So many boats that I want and not enough time and money.

I think that I will let Tex buy the Sportfisher. I will get something big and roomy.

[Ranman]

2004 Formula F-27 Performance Cruiser. See sig below...

[BUIZILLA]

1987 Silverton 40 AFT Cabiin (http://usold.com/boats/1987-Silverton-40-AFT-Cabiin.html)

[VetteLT193]

I keep looking but not buying. 35 Viking on the short list.

One day.

[ITTLFLI]

Some nice arse cruisers ya'll have!

I do a lot of business up in northern Ohio and tried to talk the wife into one of those 40+ Post Sportfish to keep on Erie but she was not agreeing with me at all! Oh well...leaves something to look forward to when I retire...:hyper:

[The Hedgehog]

1987 Silverton 40 AFT Cabiin (http://usold.com/boats/1987-Silverton-40-AFT-Cabiin.html)

Good intro cruiser. I have looked at one before.

[DonziJon]

I ain't got NOTHIN. :bonk: When you get Older and Retire, you scale it down. :yes: When I was younger.... I been there and done that already. John

[zelatore]

Well, my current personal 'cruiser' (ya'll know Cruisers is a brand, right? One of our members here works for them) is a 32 Carver Montego. Not a big boat, but a ton of room for what it is. Twin Crusader 454s give me about 20 knots at 3000 rpm. Gen/air&heat/full electronics/10' RIB w/15 hp Merc/etc. Oh yeah, and it's got a stall shower and a dinette. Both must-haves when we were looking to buy.

Boat name is 'Seven Dollar Shoes'. From a Todd Snider song, 'it's hard to kick the door down wearing seven dollar shoes' I'm told it's a depression era saying about it's hard to get ahead if you're not born there, and needless to say both Michele and I are from very blue-collar backgrounds.

I think George C. is the only one here who's seen the boat.

Before that, we had a 36 Uniflite aft cabin. Similar to what Hedge and some of the others have. After living with an aft cabin style boat for years, I don't see any reason I'd go back unless I live aboard full time again. Aft cabins have the most space for a given length, but they're also something of a PITA. Lots of up and down stairs or ladders. Climb up to get to the aft deck. Go up to the flybridge, or down to the salon. From the salon, you go down more steps to the forward or aft staterooms.

My next boat will vary depending on where I keep it. If the boat is for my local area here in San Francisco bay, I'll look for a down-east design. Something similar to what I chartered in BC earlier this month. Think Eastbay, Sabre, Back Cove, Legacy, etc. Basically an express boat with a closed helm deck and lobster boat styling. They're practical on several levels - the enclosed helm means all-season cruising in comfort. They're usually diesel, either single or twin, for increased economy (although more expensive up front). They usually have wide side decks to make line handling easy for the wife/girlfriend - do not underestimate the value of this! And the down-east look never seems to go out of style, so they don't get that flavor-of-the-month sort of thing going that makes so many boats look dated so fast (think SeaRay for reference)

If I do as we've considered and buy a boat to keep in the San Juans, I'll seriously consider the American Tug 34. Single diesel, not as fast as a down-east boat, but a ton of room and good sea keeping. An EXCELLENT boat for a couple to spend weeks at a time cruising on. In fact, at the Seattle show this year I found on that had just returned from an Alaska trip and was very well outfitted, right down to the watermaker, that sorely tempted me. Had I been a little more secure in both our jobs, we might have made an offer.

The other boat I would seriously consider is a 42 Grand Banks. I nearly bought an old woodie version before buying the Uniflite, but got scared off by the idea of the wood hull when my grandfather started telling me horror stories of maintaining wood boats back when he did that sort of thing for a living. I'd be looking at one of the later model ones, but before they switched to the newest version of the hull. The new hulls are faster semi-planing designs that can cruise at 18+ knots depending on power, but just don't have the classic look.

Of course, most of you know I work for a Carver dealer here in the bay area. We also have carried Marquis, Silverton, Viking, Albin, Tarrab, and Cruisers over the years I've been here, so I'd be glad to ramble on for another 1000 words or so about the merits of various Carvers and their competitors if somebody puts me up to it. I've spent plenty of time running boats into the 70'+ range (heck, just spent 3 hours running a 69 today) and I can say most of you could easily handle just about any boat you'd likely be able to afford. Sure, there's a learning curve, but in a lot of ways the big boats are easier. Especially when you get into twin inboards and bow/stern thrusters. Heck, go with a new IPS or Zeus powered boat, and you don't even have to know squat about boat handling - just move the little joystick and it goes where you point.

SB, you mentioned on the other thread about towing your 26. It's a PITA to tow something, but certainly doable. The catch is you're only going to be able to do it running slow. I'd recomend you look at trawlers if you were serious about towing the Donzi since you're not going to run at planing speeds anyway and a nice 40-ish foot trawler would be a very comfortable boat for you and your friends/family either inshore or off. For some ideas of what I'm talking about, google up yachtworld and check out things like Grand Banks, CHB, Ocean Alexander, Defever, Seline, and about a hundred others. That should at least give you something to get started with; from there we can figure out more about what you want.

If you actually get serious, PM me and we'll talk about what sort of boat would best fit your needs and price/size/amenities/equipment/etc that you might want to look into. Or just give me a call sometime - I can talk boats for hours, but right now I've got somebody waiting for me down on my boat...:shades:

A few pics of my current Carver-

[zelatore]

err, we have towed my 25 Whitewater planed off behind a 54 Hatt hundreds, probably thousands of miles.. In some nasty poop too...

Not on the west coast....you know, where we have real water.:wink:

OK, fine, you CAN tow on plane. I've towed a dink on plane, but never a 'real' boat.

For starters, you need to equip both boats for the job. Don't think you can just throw a rope from a stern cleat to the bow eye and call it good. Rig a nice bridle, possibly with ridged foam flotation tubes over the V at the transom of the towing boat to keep the line out of your props when you slow. Then you'll want to experiment with exactly how long the tow line is to get the towed boat to ride in the right place in your wake. This will be really important for running fast. You'll want to make sure you've got serious hardware on both boats - a well backed-up eye on the bow of the small boat and a pair of good cleats on the transom of the big boat - and you'll need them to be located so that you don't get a ton of chafe.

Anything else you'd care to throw in Mr. Fuzzy One? Like I said, I don't recommend it at speed. Heck, I don't even like to tow at slow speeds, but if you go slow there are more options than trying to go fast. Sounds like you've certainly got more experience with towing than I have.

[roadtrip se]

Jill and I are looking forward to many a night swinging out on the hook in the back of a cove on Lake Cumberland.
Probably starting this weekend.

We were looking at bigger, but did not want to commit to a marina, and then this deal came along. Sold.
Paired with an awesome Manning aluminum, this thing really is a trailerable compromise.

Best part, she can get up on top and run in the 50's, if you want to and the fuel use is next to nothing.

Just got it last fall, but we are digging it so far! Looks awesome pulling a Donzi too, when you just want to kick back.

[JimG]

Here is our "Change of Pace". It's a 36 Pace Sportfish (not Pacemaker), equipped with two Yanmar 6LY 370's. (It's built on Egg Harbor's old molds...)

This boat is the fulfillment of a lifelong dream. I've always loved sportfish boats, specifically convertibles. I grew up with a Chris Craft Commander 27 with twin 283's, and always aspired to a diesel sportfish. This boat came along and we jumped!

In my humble opinion, sportfish boats make wonderful cruisers. The bridge has great visibility, the cockpit is a fantastic party spot and the interiors are roomy. They are often built without built-in furniture, which allows you to furnish it the way you want.

With my Yanmars, I can cruise at 25 knots and get around 1 mpg. But most of the time I run it like a trawler. I get 3-4mpg at 7 knots, giving me a ton of range.

We love our Donzi, too. But we find ourselves spending much more time on the Pace...

Jim & Janet

[penbroke]

We currently have an '86 SeaRay 250DA "Serenity" that we spend most weekends on through the summer and love it. We leave Friday and return Sunday night or later which is why the Donzi sits more than it is used to. It's a pretty bare bones setup but we have enough battery for two nights without running and the fridge is up to the task.

We generally just swing on the hook fairly close to home but try to do a couple extended trips a year. In '07 we headed down the Champlain Canal to the Husdon River to the Erie Canal to Oneida Lake. 550 miles (mostly @ 10 mph speed limit in the dug canal) in 21 days on a 25 foot boat with an 80 lb black lab. It was a blast! I seriously considered calling in to quit work and just keep going... but we turned around and came back... It's hard to quit a job where when you say to the owner "I want to take some time in September" and he says "what dates?" and I say "all" and he says "Oh, ok, see ya in October".

We are seriously looking at a '92 Silverton 31 just now and with the help of a long distance advisor (I'll just call him "Don" for now...:wink:) I'm hoping to work something out... ...and no, the Caddy is not mine...


See ya on the water!
Frank :cool:

[SilverBack]

Thanks Z and everyone else....my wife seems to have the bug to get into this and the kids are into it also. I never realized how many of your guys had this type of boat. It sounds like everyone loves them. Z...is it cost effective to buy one from the left coast and transport or would that not be worth it. How would you get a 40+ foot boat moved to the gulf?

[Donzi Vol]

For you guys with the cruisers (for lack of a better term, Zel:wink:), would you advise a young buck that loves boats and the water to live on one or steer clear? For those of you who have met me, you've probably figured out that I don't require a heck of a lot. Some room for me, some friends, and a nice little mini-bar. No wifey just yet, so that's not an issue. The reason I ask is there are a couple older boats for sale on the TN river just down from Neyland Stadium. There was even a Chris Craft for a time...not sure if it's still there or not. But anyway, I think it would be pretty cool, but not sure if I would get tired of it in a month or two. Your thoughts?

[JimG]

Beautiful boats, guys! Hedgehog, I love those Marinettes! One of my favorite boats of all time!

Zelatore, I also love those Carvers. Those people can stuff more room and storage into a boat than anyone!

Some very nice cruisers on this thread, thanks for starting it!

Jim

[JimG]

Vol, go for it! If I were young and single, I'd live on mine in a heartbeat!

[Jraysray]

Beautiful boats, guys! Hedgehog, I love those Marinettes! One of my favorite boats of all time!

Zelatore, I also love those Carvers. Those people can stuff more room and storage into a boat than anyone!

Some very nice cruisers on this thread, thanks for starting it!

Jim

When I grow up I want one! Jim did the new sunbrella get installed?

[JimG]

Scott, it's close. The top is up, and the new rear awning. Side curtains on the way.

Oh and a new Vitrifrigo fridge... not by choice! :mad:

[Jraysray]

Scott, it's close. The top is up, and the new rear awning. Side curtains on the way.

Oh and a new Vitrifrigo fridge... not by choice! :mad:

Fridge or icemaker? Need some margs stat! Don't know the status with that, been a while since I have been aboard. SHE did well. Don't try and take credit with those greasy hands! :)

[Donzi Vol]

Vol, go for it! If I were young and single, I'd live on mine in a heartbeat!

Thanks for the affirmation. It'll probably happen now...haha. Interesting fact. With the $8000 first time buyers tax credit, one in my situation could get 8 grand back for buying a boat to live on. That's a pretty good deal in my book.

[The Hedgehog]

Thanks guys. This is kind of a fun thread. I figured that there was a bunch of us out there.

Zel is right about the aft cabin. It can be a PITA. Especially with dogs. That being said, mine is perfect for my situation right now. I am with you on the trawler thing from time to time. I spent a week on a Grand Banks 42 in the Keys and loved it. On the other hand, I blew right by a trawler hustling home down the gorge on Sun.

Vol, you should go for it. You have an open invitation to drive a couple of hours south and see what it is all about for the weekend. Bring a date and we can ride up to Nooga for a night of partying. Think Donzi rides in the X followed up with a day or so of cocktail cruising.

[Donzi Vol]

Vol, you should go for it. You have an open invitation to drive a couple of hours south and see what it is all about for the weekend. Bring a date and we can ride up to Nooga for a night of partying. Think Donzi rides in the X followed up with a day or so of cocktail cruising.

Thanks man, I just might do that! I'll give you a shout soon and we'll figure it out.

[zelatore]

Donzivol- as for living aboard, I say go for it! I lived aboard my Uniflite for a few years when I moved to CA. Great experience! The main thing that drove me to want a house eventualy was the lack of a garage for the bikes and cars.

You should look into the live-aboard policies or the marinas where you would want to be. It's become a political thing in a lot of areas and not all marinas will let you stay aboard full-time.

SB - there are plenty of companies that can transport even large yachts over-land by truck, but it's not cheap. For you I'd suggest shopping the gulf coast and especially Florida as that's the biggest single market In the country for larger boats. Just like cars and houses, it's a buyer's market right now and there are definately deals to be had!

And I'll have to agree with those who have already stated a fondness for sportfishing convertibles. I like them too. They tend to be good running hulls with classic lines and a lot of functional details. And like any size fishing boat from a little bass boat on up, they're usually pretty fast. If you can afford the fuel:eek:

[JimG]

HH, that's the nice thing about having a diesel SF. I can get almost the same mileage at trawler speed as a true trawler, but can jump up to 28-30 knots if I have to outrun a storm or pass a barge in the ICW. We considered a true trawler for a while, (love 'em), but the 8 knot top speed turned me off...

[BUIZILLA]

I would look for boats for sale on the Miss river, Ohio and Tenn-Tom... scores of them are available, all fresh water and most under cover and well preserved, doing that is an easy travel commute to the gulf and you avoid the hauling by truck, this allows you to buy more boat vs the hauling expense that gets thrown away... there were some killer deals on Old Hickory lake and Pickwick lake when I was up there a few weeks ago :yes:

[The Hedgehog]

I would look for boats for sale on the Miss river, Ohio and Tenn-Tom... scores of them are available, all fresh water and most under cover and well preserved, doing that is an easy travel commute to the gulf and you avoid the hauling by truck, this allows you to buy more boat vs the hauling expense that gets thrown away... there were some killer deals on Old Hickory lake and Pickwick lake when I was up there a few weeks ago :yes:

+1. I have found this to be true as well.

[SilverBack]

Thanks guys...I have done some looking on the internet and there are some good looking boats in the range that I could spend right down in New Orleans.

Saltwater/Freshwater.....Is there a big difference when it comes to this in a 90's boat? I don't think that I would ever put my Donzi in saltwater just being scared that something would get messed up but if I get a cruiser I would go over to Alabama and Florida for sure. How do you flush engines in saltwater. Is the cooling done through heat exchangers with closed cooling? I know that electrolysis can kill your liners in a diesel. I know that you guys are laughing right now but I just know that they couldn't run saltwater through a the engines like on our little boats. Could they?? :confused:

[SilverBack]

How big of a boat would you guys say to look at to have say 8-10 on a trip? What size to handle the gulf if it gets a little snotty?

The boats that run out to the rigs run mostly from 17 - 28 knots. What kind of speed should you look for in a cruiser. It sounds like a Trawler is stuck in low gear. I don't think that I would do a lot of fishing but it sounds like the sport fisher is a little faster. Do you loose a lot of space with the fishing area in the rear?

[The Hedgehog]

Thanks guys...I have done some looking on the internet and there are some good looking boats in the range that I could spend right down in New Orleans.

Saltwater/Freshwater.....Is there a big difference when it comes to this in a 90's boat? I don't think that I would ever put my Donzi in saltwater just being scared that something would get messed up but if I get a cruiser I would go over to Alabama and Florida for sure. How do you flush engines in saltwater. Is the cooling done through heat exchangers with closed cooling? I know that electrolysis can kill your liners in a diesel. I know that you guys are laughing right now but I just know that they couldn't run saltwater through a the engines like on our little boats. Could they?? :confused:

You will want closed cooling. It is not a big deal

[zelatore]

SB, First-don't get hung up on the terms like 'trawler' or 'sport fisher' or 'motoryacht' too much as you'll find they are used pretty loosely. I've seen people list Carvers as trawlers (they've never built a trawler) and Hatteras, one of the great American Sport Fishing boats, refers to all their fish boats only as Convertibles as far as I can remember.

About the size needed for a certain water –
Well, it depends on the boat. I've sold little 28 Albins that went from here to Alaska and back, and I wouldn't hesitate to run one of them in some really nasty weather. On the other hand, I've sold some much larger boats that were definitely not comfortable in big water. The same can be said for the number of people. It all depends on the boat. Here's an example: My little 32 Carver doesn't really entertain that well. I figure 6 including myself is about all I want aboard for a day cruise, and 4 for overnighting. Even then, it's tight. On the other hand, a 35' Carver Mariner can easily entertain twice that many and can sleep 6. It's not that the extra 3' made the difference, it's the layout.

Fresh vs. Salt –
Sure, fresh water is nice. For all the obvious reasons....it's just not as corrosive. But big boats are often found on big water, so that means salt. Don’t let it scare you away. It all comes down to who owned it and cared for it, just like anything.

Depending on the boats you end up looking at, I would expect almost all to be fresh water cooled. Not that long ago a few people were still putting raw water cooled motors in bigger boats as cost savings, but I don't think anybody does it these days. Yes, I would have fresh water cooling on my shopping list, but if I were a fresh water boater I wouldn't rule out a raw water cooled boat out of hand. BTW- there are fittings you can get that attach to your sea strainers to let you close the intake valve and run the motor on a hose to flush it. I haven't messed with them since I haven't sold a raw water cooled boat in years, but things like that do exist. I think Groco makes the one I'm thinking of.

I don't know what the market looks like on the Ten-Tom. Back when I actually lived and boated (sort of) in that area there just weren't that many big boats there. I understand that's changed a lot, but hands down you'll find the biggest selection of boats for sale in Florida. That said, for whatever reason (I have some opinions) we often find Florida boats seem to be rougher around the edges than many. Cheaper? Yes, often. But also a little rougher just as often. Either area would be a relatively easy run for you to bring the boat back to Texas. As long as you have water access and don't have to take it apart to put it on a truck, it's worth considering.

About speeds/styles-
Generally speaking, a true trawler is a displacement hull with a single small diesel. Being a displacement design, it just isn't going to go fast no matter how much power you throw at it. On the other hand, it should get great economy and have a very nice ride off-shore. These are boats like Krogen or Nordhaven. The sort of thing that can cross oceans. They tend to have very conservative designs and be very function-first. The true trawler market is fairly limited however as most people just don't want a 7 or 8 knot boat.
http://www.nordhavn.com/
http://www.kadeykrogen.com/

Most trawlers these days are actually semi-displacement hulls that can be reasonably efficient at low speeds but still provide lift when you put enough power to them. Pretty much you'll find twin diesels in most of these boats. These are quite popular now and most of the 'trawlers' you see are really this style hull with traditional styling above the waterline. Heck, Grand Banks is considered one of the premier trawler builders on the market, but their current hulls can easily run just as fast as any motoryacht. They even offer a boat with Zeus drives! If Grand Banks exemplifies the higher end of this market, Mainship covers the entry-level end. Again, you'll find semi-displacement hulls here with trawler styling. Nothing specifically wrong with Mainship, although there are some obvious cost-cutting measures going on compared to the higher dollar rigs.

Where true displacement style trawlers are limited to very low speeds due to hull design, these semi-displacement boats can be described as 'dual mode'. The can cruise economically at low (single digit) speeds, or with larger engines can run at 15 to 20 knots.
http://grandbanks.com/yachts/heritage/index.cfm
http://www.mainship.com/

Sedans, motoryachts, and pilothouses are basically the generic 'big boats' of the world. A sedan basically means a boat with an open cockpit in the back, usually a flybridge, and all the accommodations forward. Motoryachts are generally thought of as aft-cabin designs although some of them will have cockpits as well - I find this a very useful layout myself and like a number CPMY boats. Pilothouse boats can be thought of as a sedan with a prominent raised lower helm station (you'll usually only see this on stuff roughly 45'+ as the design just needs a certain amount of space) Most of the names you're familiar with will fall into this category. Silverton, Bayliner/Meridian, Carver, & Sea Ray (not counting their popular express models) probably cover 75% of the domestic market between them. They all have their strong points. This is the market I happen to work in for the most part. Styling can run from conservative to wild. Power will vary between gas and diesel inboards depending on size and application, but pretty much all will be twins. Expect to see cruising speeds of 15-20 knots and top speeds of 25-30 knots.
http://www.carveryachts.com/ (clearly the best:wink:)
http://www.silverton.com/
http://www.meridian-yachts.com/

As a sub-set of these boats you have the euro designs. Think Viking Sport Cruisers, Sun Seeker, Azimut, Fairline, Ferretti, etc. These will typically be sedans and pilothouses with avant guard styling, twin diesels, and good performance. On the other hand, they tend to be expensive, trendy, and have less room than their US counterparts.
http://www.vikingsportcruisers.com/main2/index.asp
http://www.azimutyachts.com/com/en/
http://www.sunseeker.com/

Sport fishers/Convertibles cover a lot of ground. Pretty much you're dealing with US built boats only here, twin diesels, fast, and pretty seaworthy. They run the gamut from stripped down fishing machines to luxury yachts that happen to have fishing gear in the back. Some traits you'll usually find across the board are large cockpits with relatively low freeboard, no swim platform, fish lockers and baitwells, rod storage, etc. Everything you need to work a fish. At the same time, you will likely find good accommodations, a bridge with the helm aft to give a good view of the cockpit, wide side decks, and classic good looks. All things that make a good cruising boat as well as a good fishing machine. The east coast dominates this market with names like Hatteras, Post, Egg Harbor, Bertram, Ocean, Luhrs….the list goes on. There are some non-east coat builders, like Riviera of Austrailia and Mikelson of California, but they target a slightly different segment of the market – actually they would likely work better as a cruising boat.

I tend to like sport fishing boats even though I don’t so much as own a fishing rod. They have a lot of practical features and I just happen to think they are good looking boats with a rich history. An older Hat that needs fixing up could be a great opportunity as they are well built boats that have a good reputation.
http://www.hatterasyachts.com/
http://www.bertram.com/
http://www.luhrs.com/

Gas vs Diesel-
A lot of people will tell you that you absolutely, positively have to have diesel. I won’t. While everything else being equal I would go for the diesel power, the simple fact is it depends on the boat and how you’re going to use it. Here are two examples-
First, I sell a 28’ off-shore fishing boat called an Albin. You couldn’t give this boat away with gas power because of the way it’s used. People buying these things are pretty hard-core types who put a lot of hours on the boat each year and need a lot of range to run off-shore chasing fish. They’re willing to pay the premium up front to get the diesel engine.

In contrast, the Carver Mariner is a 36’ cruising boat that I almost never sell with diesels. Most people buying this boat are price sensitive, so the extra $50K or so to upgrade the engines, running gear, and generator to diesel puts the boat out of their range. Also, most of these boats only see 50-75 hours a year and don’t cruise long distances where they need maximum possible range. So while diesel should get better economy (figure around 15-20%), the fuel costs more at the pump and the boat costs WAY more up front. So do the math and figure out just how many years (decades sometimes) it will take you to make up the cost difference between a boat at $250K with gas and $300K with diesel if you only run 75 hrs a year. (don’t forget to consider the interest you’re paying on the extra loan amount…)

At a certain point, diesel will become the only option as gas motors simply won’t provide adequate performance. Generally you’re looking at about 40’ when builders stop offering gas all together.

Holy Crap! – I just looked back and realized I seem to be writing the great American novel. I think I’ll call it quits for now before everybody falls asleep. Suffice it to say there are hundreds of boat builders out there and I’ve only touched on a few of the better known brands. There are also exceptions to every generalization I've mentioned. I’ve listed both high and low end builders, but they are all new builders. I’m assuming you’ll be looking at used boats, but just looking at these websites might give you some basic ideas about different styles and accommodations to be found in older boats as well. There’s a ton more I could say, but I think this should be plenty for the time being.

[Just Say N20]

Zel,

Excellent job presenting the "Big Boat Buyer's Guide 101" information. :yes:

[TBroccoli]

My father has a 46.6' Bertam aftcabin motoryacht. It's the best built boat I've ever been on. He has owned over 18 different boat while was growing up. This boat is like a tank. The previous owner use to take it from Baltimore to the Virgin Islands during the winter months. Its only negitive is that it max's out at about 19knots. Dad likes to get where he's going. The boat sleeps 9 comfortably.

[The Hedgehog]

Great educational Don. You really said a good bit there and summed a bunch up.

[BUIZILLA]

I think fuzzy and I need this... :yes:

Black Point has slip openings....

Egg Harbor 33' Sport Yacht NO RESERVE!:eBay Motors (item 120424072938 end time May-28-09 15:52:43 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120424072938&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3AWNA%3AUS%3A1123&viewitem=)

[SilverBack]

Don....THANKS!!!!!


That is a lot of great information! I know that it took you some time to put that down. The links are great! I owe you one. Whenever we meet up dinner is on me!

[SilverBack]

Buiz...This one has your name written all over it!!


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1990-Aronow-47Ft-Express-High-Performance-Yacht_W0QQitemZ380127020635QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPowe r_Motorboats?hash=item588156065b&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=72%3A317|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318

[VetteLT193]

I think fuzzy and I need this... :yes:

Black Point has slip openings....

Egg Harbor 33' Sport Yacht NO RESERVE!:eBay Motors (item 120424072938 end time May-28-09 15:52:43 PDT) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120424072938&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3AWNA%3AUS%3A1123&viewitem=)

That's a good boat too... right at the end of the superior Egg Harbor era.

The ones they built after they came back to life, post luxo tax, suck.

[JimG]

Love them Eggs. Hold out for diesels, though. There are some SMOKIN' deals out there... no pun intended!

[zelatore]

I'm still daydreaming about one of these....
http://www.floridabaycoasters.com/models/55

I don't think there are any pics of it with it's 'tenders' in place, but with a 20' beam you could easily carry a Jeep with an 18 above it, and still carry a 13' whaler or big RIB on the top deck.

Now if only some long-lost rich relative would pass away and leave me about $10M (after taxes, of course) so I can build it and retire to a cruising lifestyle.

[Jerry Eisele]

Great thred! We've been reworking a Kong Halverson/Island Gypsy 30 for the past couple years and should have it in the water this July. It's been a great project with super lines and at 30 ft., it keeps the dock fees in check. We hope to travel the Great Lakes with our little Layman powered Trawler. We also have a 28 Carver Riviera, 235 hours, twin 305's that we've owned for the past 15 years. It'll be for sale when the Trawler's complete, if my wife can give it up. She loves the aft cabin and the three living areas. The Riviera is a great week ender, but not much for fishing.

[handfulz28]

Just random experiences from my dad's 45' aft cabin that he got rid of last year...
Here in south florida we like to get in the water a lot. That's a real PITA with an AC. There's a swim platform sure, but you're still 3-4 vertical steps to the deck. Depending on what kind of dock you're at, you can expect as much as a chest-high deck to climb on/jump off. Floating, water-level docks generally are the worse. As previously mentioned, ladders to get anywhere and typically a small door passage to get things through when bringing on-board.

IMHO, sportfish with swim platform and fish door, plus a bridge with extra capacity seating is darn near perfect. You can always throw up an awning over the fish cockpit and have more protection from the sun if needed. It's like having an RV with a balcony that opens right on the pool. :cool!:

[JimG]

No enclosed bridges for me. I'd rather have the breeze.

If I were going bigger, I'd call Buddy and Billy and have 'em get started on one of these...

http://www.bbboatsinc.com/

[JimG]

Love them Sculley's, and the Jarrett Bays/Merritts etc. But they are all 2M plus. BB Boats are a screaming deal at $650k. Not as plush and fancy, but they sure are pretty! Marlin Magazine ran a feature on them a while back and I fell in love! :)

[Craig S]

I've been there and done that and realized...I just don't make the coin!

For cruisers these days...I really like the "other man's boat," or OMB for short. They're always great. Fridge is full. Insurance is paid. Never needs a bottom job. Really low maintenance. I just try and do what it takes to be asked back.

[Ghost]

I've been there and done that and realized...I just don't make the coin!

For cruisers these days...I really like the "other man's boat," or OMB for short. They're always great. Fridge is full. Insurance is paid. Never needs a bottom job. Really low maintenance. I just try and do what it takes to be asked back.

Agreed, I will likely never have the coin. Nice to dream though. And hey, this one's more than 50% off...

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2006/Neville-Demo-%26quot%3Bas-New%26quot%3B---Port-Annapolis-Marina-1528291/Annapolis/MD/United-States

[The Hedgehog]

Agreed, I will likely never have the coin. Nice to dream though. And hey, this one's more than 50% off...

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2006/Neville-Demo-%26quot%3Bas-New%26quot%3B---Port-Annapolis-Marina-1528291/Annapolis/MD/United-States

Nice beefy boat.

[Just Say N20]

I love out boat. I love the family time we get on it. The ONLY thing that does get old, as was stated before, is all the up and down stairs. Everywhere you go is 3 steps up or 3 steps down. But I'm certainly will to accept this compromise because of all the space

Nice galley and dinette though. :yes:

Notice to the right of the galley, there is a pantry! This is awesome, and holds a lot of provisions. Carver really did a good job with this boat.

[The Hedgehog]

I love out boat. I love the family time we get on it. The ONLY thing that does get old, as was stated before, is all the up and down stairs. Everywhere you go is 3 steps up or 3 steps down. But I'm certainly will to accept this compromise because of all the space
Nice galley and dinette though. :yes:
Notice to the right of the galley, there is a pantry! This is awesome, and holds a lot of provisions. Carver really did a good job with this boat.

Clean boat. What year?

I love the Aft cabin for entertaining groups.

[Just Say N20]

1988. We had an express before, and had been looking for about 3 years when we found this one. We walked on board, and knew we had found what we were looking for.

It has a lower helm, which I have never used, and could do without.

The V-berth is large and angled. Great for one person. The person against the hull would have to climb out over the other person.

The MSR bed is angled slightly so you can get out each side. Each stateroom has its own head, sink and shower.

Tons of storage. 3 A/C (9, 16, 9) units. Kohler 6.5kW generator. A real floating vacation home.

[zelatore]

Carver was king of the aft cabins there for a while. Currently, they've backed off that market somewhat. Seemed to start about '99 or so...about when the 530 pilothouse came out.

BTW, there are some pretty good deals to be had on 530's these days. I really like that boat.

And I have to agree with you about lower helms in aft cabins - I had one in my Uniflite (great riding hull, but not a fast hull). I did use it once...just to say I did.

Oh, and I've been on that model 38 and you're right, the pantry rocks!

[Jerry Eisele]

I'd love to have a Carver 38, but docks over 35-40 ft double in price and avalability is short in Port Clinton on Lake Erie. The Riviera is only 28, but for the two of us, it's been a great little boat for the past 15 years.

[The Hedgehog]

I don't use the downstairs helm that much but if you do a bunch of cruising it can save your butt. I was taking a several hour ride down the Tn river this winter and needed it. I stayed up on the flybridge for about 30 min on a 35 degree day with drizzle. Had the gen going and the folks down below were enjoying lunch in heated comfort. I came downstairs and saw people enjoying appetizers and cocktails. One was just finished taking a hot shower. It did not take too long before I was down there. It worked out pretty good. I much prefer the bridge when operating around the dock though.

The whole cruiser scene gives me a 12 month boating season down here.

[roadtrip se]

on our SS. Just like a mini-vacation.

Saturday night, it stormed and blew some, so I was up and down checking the anchor, but we had a ball. Total quiet, total relaxation.

I could get used to this. Once the water warms up a little more, we may start making these three and four day adventures.

But just in case someone is concerned, I also spent a significant amount of time thinking on my planting plans for the Flowerpot. It is all on paper, like a little journal diary.

[The Hedgehog]

on our SS. Just like a mini-vacation.
Saturday night, it stormed and blew some, so I was up and down checking the anchor, but we had a ball. Total quiet, total relaxation.
I could get used to this. Once the water warms up a little more, we may start making these three and four day adventures.
But just in case someone is concerned, I also spent a significant amount of time thinking on my planting plans for the Flowerpot. It is all on paper, like a little journal diary.

A night on the hook. That is a good time. I will do that some when I get my tender logistics worked out. I can hammer it out easy with a Minn Kota and an Optima. I don't think that my smaller dog Sadie will like the process though. If my friend Ken can do take his Great Dane to shore for a walk, I dang sure should be able to do it with two much smaller dogs.

[Donzi Vol]

So I've been running this idea of living aboard by some of my friends/family who already think I'm crazy for various and a sundry reasons. They all seemed to act like I was off until I explained all the positives of the living arrangement and how it would be a blast and semi-practical at the same time. I even attempted to talk my roomate into letting me keep my room at his place for the big furniture and a vacation on dry land every now and again. I told him that I would let him use my floating home every now and again on a weekend by telling girls that he was the proud owner of a yacht. :wink:

Now it's just about finding one and working out the logistics. What are the going rates for slip rental and docking fees (water, electric, sewer disposal, etc) these days? Also, how large should I go? It's just me, but I don't want to get cramped.

Thanks for the influence...hehe

[The Hedgehog]

So I've been running this idea of living aboard by some of my friends/family who already think I'm crazy for various and a sundry reasons. They all seemed to act like I was off until I explained all the positives of the living arrangement and how it would be a blast and semi-practical at the same time. I even attempted to talk my roomate into letting me keep my room at his place for the big furniture and a vacation on dry land every now and again. I told him that I would let him use my floating home every now and again on a weekend by telling girls that he was the proud owner of a yacht. :wink:


Now it's just about finding one and working out the logistics. What are the going rates for slip rental and docking fees (water, electric, sewer disposal, etc) these days? Also, how large should I go? It's just me, but I don't want to get cramped.

Thanks for the influence...hehe

How large should you go? Hmm, that is a question about what you want to spend. From knowing your style and that you are not talking about a landlocked body of water, I would think that a house boat is out. That gets into everything that Zel said. For me it was more important to have 2 staterooms with 2 full bathrooms hence the aft cabin. For you, you will want a bigger salon and easier access. Something like a sportfishing type or convertible. I would think that anything under 35 may start closing in on you as a live on. Oh yeah, you will want a Purisan waste system.

As far as slips, you can't go wrong with covered and location will be key for a single guy. The live aboard thing is tough. You will need to do your homework there. Some have policies against it but look the other way. They want to avoid the appearance that the Clampets live on the dock. That is a good thing. We just had some weekend "Clampets" move in at the other side of our dock. If their activities keep up, I will say something or move to another slip. Nice folks but if you saw them in action you would know what I mean. They don't have AC on their POS houseboat so I am hoping that the heat will run them off. I am sure that the guy with the nice Grand Banks loves walking past them. That being said, some marinas are more serious about enforcing the live aboard policy.

[Craig S]

Living aboard is great! Especially in a covered slip (at least down here).

[Donzi Vol]

How large should you go? Hmm, that is a question about what you want to spend. From knowing your style and that you are not talking about a landlocked body of water, I would think that a house boat is out. That gets into everything that Zel said. For me it was more important to have 2 staterooms with 2 full bathrooms hence the aft cabin. For you, you will want a bigger salon and easier access. Something like a sportfishing type or convertible. I would think that anything under 35 may start closing in on you as a live on. Oh yeah, you will want a Purisan waste system.

As far as slips, you can't go wrong with covered and location will be key for a single guy. The live aboard thing is tough. You will need to do your homework there. Some have policies against it but look the other way. They want to avoid the appearance that the Clampets live on the dock. That is a good thing. We just had some weekend "Clampets" move in at the other side of our dock. If their activities keep up, I will say something or move to another slip. Nice folks but if you saw them in action you would know what I mean. They don't have AC on their POS houseboat so I am hoping that the heat will run them off. I am sure that the guy with the nice Grand Banks loves walking past them. That being said, some marinas are more serious about enforcing the live aboard policy.

Thanks for the advice! Yeah, no houseboat for this guy. I like to have at least a little speed in anything I own.

There's a marina/row of slips right on the river, close to downtown and the stadium that I would love to get into. I'm sure that RedDog, cutwater, and scoopdoggy will know the ones I'm talking about. They're a short cruise over to the grand TN football tradition of the Vol Navy! I guess I'll check on those and see if anything is for sale in there. Might find a bargain...never know.

[zelatore]

Everything Hedge said is right on.

As for slip prices, it varies widely in different parts of the country so I can't help you much there. Just here in CA, you can find slips from $5/ft for a crappy marina to $15/ft for a nice one. Maybe more in some high-end SoCal areas.

Here in the bay area there's a local government agency called the BCDC (bay conservation and development committee, I believe) that once upon a time was formed with the intent of making sure the bay was developed in a responsible manner. Now they are mostly concerned with maintaining their own power and doing whatever they can to decrease boat access. At least that's what it looks like from my perspective. They regulate if and how many slips in a given marina can be live-aboards. I doubt you have the same level of buracratic BS in TN, but you might have some.

I've also found that if you cold-call most harbormasters and ask them 'do you have any live-aboard slips?' the answer is usually 'no, 3 year waiting list...' But if you make nice with them, get to know them a little, and don't have a crapped-out Clampet looking boat, that '3 year waiting list' suddenly has an opening.

A covered slip would be a huge plus. It will greatly decrease maintenance and leaks. Yeah, you can expect to have some sort of leaks from windows or hatches or whatever...it just happens on older boats. It will also keep the boat cooler in the summer.

Boats usually aren't very well insulated. In the summer you can pop the windows and hatches for some ventilation, but AC is the ticket. That means a lot of power needed. I'd bet whatever boat you look at will have 2 30amp/120v shore power connections. One will run the boat's systems, and the other will be dedicated to the AC/heat. If you get a larger boat or a newer one, it might have a single 50amp/240v cable instead of the two smaller cables. Either way, make sure you have enough power on the docks to run everything. While there are adapters to run just about any boat on any dockside power, that's not going to help much if your dock only has a limited amount of power available.

If you get air on the boat, most likely it will be a reverse-cycle unit(s) that also work as heat. If not, you'll be looking at various space heaters. They're not very efficient, but at least it's a small space to heat. Frankely, when I'm on my Carver these days I don't even bother turning on the on-board heat unless it's really cold. I just have a small west marine space heater that does the job fine and is quiter than the big MarineAir system on-board.

A few things worth having in any live-aboard boat:
Stall shower! Smaller boats will have 'wet heads' or just a curtain you pull around to (supposedly) keep the water from splashing everywhere when you shower. You want a separate stall shower.

Dinette. I prefer a booth style myself, but anything is better than a pop-up high/low table or eating off TV trays every day. Plus it gives you someplace to put your laptop or do that office work you brought home with you.

Hanging lockers. Usually boats have a lot of drawer storage, but not many hanging lockers. Depending on how you dress for work, you may need to hang shirts, suits, jackets, etc. I've seen 40' boats that only had about 12-18" of total hanging space. That's tight!

Storage! The old saying is that no boat made has enough storage! When you're looking at boats, don't just look at the layout, but try to imagine the details of where you'll actually put all your stuff. Does it have enough storage, and more importantly, is it actually accessible? Not much good to have storage that takes you 15 minutes of digging to get to.

Big refrigerator/freezer. There are work-arounds on this, for example I use the ice maker in my cockpit as a freezer and replaced my old under-counter Norcold (aka no-cold) refer that had a small freezer section at the top with a higher end Waeco unit with a remote compressor and no freezer section. That gave me about 75% more refer volume in the same cut-out.

Island bed. Not as important for a single guy, but if you don't have an island bed and there are two of you, the one on the inside will be trapped and the one on the outside will have to get up every time the other one wants out of bed to go to work in the morning or just use the head.

Also on the bed issue, a good mattress is a big plus. You're a young guy so it might not bother you too much now, but a lot of boat mattresses are crappy foam things that soon develop a big valley in the middle. Since boats in the sub-50' range seldom if ever have regular sized beds it's not like you can run down to Slick Willie's Discount Mattress and get a new one for $199.99. Several custom mattress makers are out there, but expect to pay in the thousands, not hundreds, for a good inner spring mattress.

For a live-aboard, I wouldn't be too worried about gas vs. diesel power. Yeah, diesel is nice but the fact is most live-aboards don't put that many hours on the boat. I also wouldn't worry about electronics much. Again, they don't make the boat any more liveable and they go out of of date faster than your computer or cell phone...any used boat you buy will likely have at least a basic complement of electronics including GPS, chartplotter, sounder, and VHF, but chance are you'll want to update them to current gear anyway if you use them much. And although I'm something of an electronics junkie since I work with the latest stuff all the time the fact is boaters managed to get along without them just fine for centuries. That said, I consider those basics a requirement, so if you don't have at least functional versions of each figure on adding them. I wouldn't jump out to buy radar or autopilot until you've had the boat a while and know you'll really use them - they're much higher dollar than the basics.

As for boat styles, an aft-cabin will flat-out have the most room for a given size. Generally, you're going to start about 35' for that style boat and go up from there. One big plus with this style boat (I had one when I lived aboard for this very reason) is the two staterooms and heads. Since you're a single guy, the second stateroom can become a large closet and storage room, but having a second head can be a real plus. You will eventually clog or break the first one, and having a second will be quite a .... relief.

Size-wise, you really need to just get out on some boats first-hand and see what you feel you need. I'd suggest starting in the 35-40' range. That's a popular size and should have enough room to keep you from tripping over yourself.

For specific models, I'd be hard-pressed to name anything without talking with you to get a better feel for your needs and budget, but on the small side you might look at a Carver Mariner, 1996-on. You can get into one of these well under $100K and they are super-popular so you can find them everywhere.
Here's an example in your area:
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1999/Carver-Mariner-350-1555373/Prospect/KY/United-States

On the other end of the scale, but still keeping price in check, you've got something like this:
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1997/Carver-405-Motor-Yacht-1964264/Mt.-Juliet/TN/United-States

If you can't live on that, you don't want to live-aboard.

Those are just two quicky examples of Carvers I pulled off yachtworld. BTW, yachtworld.com is your new favorite website when you start looking.

I used Carvers as examples because I'm familiar with them and because they are good at getting a lot of living space in their boats. But there are dozens of brands that would work just fine.

Talk with your lender about a budget; talk with local harbormasters about slip availability and rates; then get out there and start getting aboard some boats to see what you like!

[The Hedgehog]

I had not thought of the backup head idea but it is a good thought.

Zel is right on. I have been on a couple of "waitlists" before. The first time I was looking for a spot to put a hydrohoist and my 27ZX. They probably thought I was a loudmouth with a loud boat. I used their marina a few times, made friends with some of the regulars and bought some gas. Within 2 weeks I got a call saying that there was an opening. I have heard the same thing about live aboards. Time for you to do some homework.

[Donzi Vol]

Well I went and looked at a 45' Chris Craft tonight. It's probably a little more than I need, but she is gorgeous and already in the marina where I want to be. The seller was really cool, and said that even if I don't buy one of his two boats for sale, he would help me find the right one. Will keep you updated...

[mrfixxall]

Now heres a party barge forsale!!

http://www.crankyape.com/default.asp?pg=DispSingleItem&ItemNumber=11795

[Donzi Vol]

Well it seems as though I might be moving away from the river. It's still a maybe, but it just might happen. Where I would be heading there are two really nice lakes, but sadly don't connect to the river...at least not by anything but canoe. What are your thoughts on the type of vessel to liveaboard if I decide to live on the lake where I probably wouldn't take the boat out a heck of a lot?

[The Hedgehog]

Well it seems as though I might be moving away from the river. It's still a maybe, but it just might happen. Where I would be heading there are two really nice lakes, but sadly don't connect to the river...at least not by anything but canoe. What are your thoughts on the type of vessel to liveaboard if I decide to live on the lake where I probably wouldn't take the boat out a heck of a lot?

That's tough. Like Center Hill. I might own a cruiser on CH though

[Donzi Vol]

That's tough. Like Center Hill. I might own a cruiser on CH though

Yeah, I'm thinking like a good size express or something. Something with an aft cabin, but no fly bridge. Of course that would mean I would have to put a push start on the triple hatch in order to feel important.

[zelatore]

A couple questions:

How big are these lakes and what are the facilities like? Are there yards on the lake that can lauch/haul a larger boat, or would you be trying to trailer launch it? (biggest thing I've trailer launched was a 36' aft cabin. Weird, and it takes a very specialized trailer and looooong ramp)

If the lake isn't big enough to get any real water up, much as I hate to say it a houseboat is the biggest bang for the buck. You can always tow the 18 along to save your pride. A houseboat will also be cheaper than a 'real' boat. Of course, there's usually a reason for that - don't look too closely at the construction of the typical houseboat if you really think you might want to buy one someday. :wink:

[Donzi Vol]

A couple questions:

How big are these lakes and what are the facilities like? Are there yards on the lake that can lauch/haul a larger boat, or would you be trying to trailer launch it? (biggest thing I've trailer launched was a 36' aft cabin. Weird, and it takes a very specialized trailer and looooong ramp)

If the lake isn't big enough to get any real water up, much as I hate to say it a houseboat is the biggest bang for the buck. You can always tow the 18 along to save your pride. A houseboat will also be cheaper than a 'real' boat. Of course, there's usually a reason for that - don't look too closely at the construction of the typical houseboat if you really think you might want to buy one someday. :wink:

I was afraid you might say that. The lakes are pretty good size, but I honestly don't know where I could put a big boat in. I would have to ask around a little bit. All of the marinas have year round water, so that's not an issue. They're rather deep lakes. I suppose I could go the houseboat route, but it's certainly not my first choice. I might be heading up there tomorrow, and if so I'll try to come back with some more info.

Thanks

[McGary911]

Finally read this whole thread. Nice cruisers folks. When I was still in NJ, me and a friend owned a 31' Silverton convertible. It was actually built on the same spot where Frank C's Typhoon marine sits.
We got a lot of good years out of it. It's now sitting in drydock while we figure out what to do with it.
Here's a couple of pics of the "Cirrhosis of the River". 1 with Crit', 1 without. Anyone from the Jersey Shore will recognize the F-Cove in the second pic. :cool!:

Hmm. Says I can't attach the second pic, as I uploaded it a few years back. See if this link works for #2.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=27669&d=1174178893

[The Hedgehog]

Here is the drawing of my aft cabin floorplan from the Marinette site.

Donzi Vol: This does not include the all important flybridge!

[glashole]

this is me in mine at flybridge level

[The Hedgehog]

this is me in mine at flybridge level

Man that is a really open flybridge!

Looks fun.

[roadtrip se]

First one is mixing up a couple of boat sodas at sunset...

Second is from the back of a perfect cove....

[Just Say N20]

Just got back from a week vacation on ours with the family. What a great time. Weather wasn't great in Michigan, but the lake was calm for everything but the last 37 mile leg of the return trip.

We cruised at 16 mph (2 gal/mile) into a quartering head sea for the first 8 miles of the last leg. Water from the bow spray was spraying clear over the flybridge canvas! It looked very cool as it would spray out from the boat, and then the wind would catch it and send it back into the whole starboard side of the flybridge canvas. I felt like I was living some of the scenes I've seen in "THE MOST DANGEROUS CATCH." We rounded Little Sable point, and it became a following quarter sea, and it was a blast.

Cruising at 16 you could catch a wave and surf it (we were in 4' - 6' seas). The GPS read a max speed from surfing of 23! But then you would loose the wave, and the stern would sink into the trough, and the engines would bog down, trying to climb out, slowing to about 12.5 mph. Had the starboard prop break free about 10 times! Once I was hard over to port, and it wasn't enough; starboard prop broke free, and the boat started sliding sideways into the trough, with a pretty big list. I exclaimed "Holy Sh!t" and my daughter, who was lying on the 7' long seat in front of the helm said, "Dad, it feels like I am going to just go vertical and stand up." We made it just fine, but that was quite a moment.

All in all a great time was had by all. All the equipment worked perfectly for the whole trip, and nothing broke. :shades:

[zelatore]

Just got back from a week vacation on ours with the family. What a great time. Weather wasn't great in Michigan, but the lake was calm for everything but the last 37 mile leg of the return trip.

We cruised at 16 mph (2 gal/mile) into a quartering head sea for the first 8 miles of the last leg. Water from the bow spray was spraying clear over the flybridge canvas! It looked very cool as it would spray out from the boat, and then the wind would catch it and send it back into the whole starboard side of the flybridge canvas. I felt like I was living some of the scenes I've seen in "THE MOST DANGEROUS CATCH." We rounded Little Sable point, and it became a following quarter sea, and it was a blast.

Cruising at 16 you could catch a wave and surf it (we were in 4' - 6' seas). The GPS read a max speed from surfing of 23! But then you would loose the wave, and the stern would sink into the trough, and the engines would bog down, trying to climb out, slowing to about 12.5 mph. Had the starboard prop break free about 10 times! Once I was hard over to port, and it wasn't enough; starboard prop broke free, and the boat started sliding sideways into the trough, with a pretty big list. I exclaimed "Holy Sh!t" and my daughter, who was lying on the 7' long seat in front of the helm said, "Dad, it feels like I am going to just go vertical and stand up." We made it just fine, but that was quite a moment.

All in all a great time was had by all. All the equipment worked perfectly for the whole trip, and nothing broke. :shades:

I hate it when I've got spray flying that much .... that means lots of salt to clean up!

The story about rolling the boat waaaay up on it's side in a quartering sea sounds very familiar. When I first moved to CA we had a 36' Uniflite aft cabin. One day I was headed back home and stopped for fuel about 10 miles from our home marina. Went to leave, and one motor wouldn't crank. Turned out the starter had died. No problem...I'll just run it home on one. But I had about 4-5' seas off my stb aft quarter and without both motors running even with it hard over I couldn't hold my line and would get rolled heavily. Made a mess of everything that wasn't bolted down, including a desk in the salon that got flipped over. At one point Michele looked over and asked 'are we going to flip over?' Nah, nothing to worry about I told her, faking much more confidence than I really had...

Interestingly enough, a lot of people who've boated in both areas say SF Bay's water is a lot like Lake Michigan. Most of the bay is fairly shallow, and we tend to get short, steep wind waves everywhere except right in front of the gate where we get a swell rolling in.

[Just Say N20]

I hate it when I've got spray flying that much .... that means lots of salt to clean up!


Interestingly enough, a lot of people who've boated in both areas say SF Bay's water is a lot like Lake Michigan. Most of the bay is fairly shallow, and we tend to get short, steep wind waves everywhere except right in front of the gate where we get a swell rolling in.

Funny you should mention the salt thing. I was thinking as this was happening that I was able to enjoy it, because it was all fresh water. All it did was get stuff wet. No "de-saltification" necessary. :yes:

You are right about the waves on the great lakes. Really can be a pain because they are so stacked up. I have been in 6' waves on the Atlantic, and it is more like driving on rolling hills; a nice gentle up one side and down the other. 6' waves on Lake Michigan seem like they are only about 40' apart!

[The Hedgehog]

Funny you should mention the salt thing. I was thinking as this was happening that I was able to enjoy it, because it was all fresh water. All it did was get stuff wet. No "de-saltification" necessary. :yes:
You are right about the waves on the great lakes. Really can be a pain because they are so stacked up. I have been in 6' waves on the Atlantic, and it is more like driving on rolling hills; a nice gentle up one side and down the other. 6' waves on Lake Michigan seem like they are only about 40' apart!

That sounds kind of harrowing. 4' is about as big as we see on our system. They are the short nasty type like you describe but not near as bad a the 6 footers.

I sometimes have to explain to my passengers that real cruising is not a canned experience. That is what I like about it though.

It sure is nice not having to de-saltify.

[mrfixxall]

First one is mixing up a couple of boat sodas at sunset...
Second is from the back of a perfect cove....



Formula ss?

[The Hedgehog]

First one is mixing up a couple of boat sodas at sunset...
Second is from the back of a perfect cove....

Boat sodas + cruiser + perfect cove = great recipe!:pimp:

[BUIZILLA]

when your on the bridge, and the wave tops are above your eye level..... :bonk:

[Just Say N20]

when your on the bridge, and the wave tops are above your eye level..... :bonk:

I have never done that with this boat. Eye level is about 14' above the water. That would be WAY more fun than I would want to have.

We had a 31' Wellcraft Express Cruiser before this boat. It was a great "big water" boat with 19 degrees of deadrise at the transom. Twin Crusader 350/270hp V-Drives. I went out in Lake Michigan ONCE with it in 10' - 12' waves (the reason why is a story for another time). In that boat I would guess your eyes were about 7 feet above the water. That was a very uncomfortable feeling being in the trough of the wave, and looking UP about 5' to see the tops of the waves! :shocking:

The boat was rock solid, and landed softly, but at 15 mph you would come over the top of a wave, and the back side was so steep the boat would literally free fall back into the water. Both props would cavitate after cresting each wave when going into the wind. Once in those conditions was enough. I kept thinking that if I lost an engine I would have been in a world of hurt.

Real world cruising is most definitely NOT a canned experience, and I agree; that is what makes it a fun adventure.

[zelatore]

I've done the 'looking up at the waves' thing. Not my favorite! Took a 50' Viking sport cruiser out the gate several years ago. Running from the pilothouse, the waves were taller than I was. Great performing boat, but at that point it just doesn't matter much what your driving it's going to be an E-ticket ride.

I've also had a few fun rides in smaller boats heading off-shore. Like this:
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=51913&highlight=albin

And I've done the fall off the wave and lift the props free thing as well here on the bay. Did that one in a smaller Cruisers express. Running slowly, but every time I crested a wave and started down the back side the props would break free. Then the bow would dig into the face of the next wave and a geyser would come shooting up from the bow pulpit as it got stuck into the wave. That day I called it quits and turned around!

Ah yes, the cruising lifestyle!

[roadtrip se]

Formula ss?

SS 280. We looked hard at the 370 and the 400, but I wasn't ready to commit to a marina quite yet, as the real nice ones here are a bit of a drive from our place. Buizilla suggested we look at the 280 as a nice compromise and still trailer-able, we found a great deal working with Formula, and the rest is history. Thrilled.


Boat sodas + cruiser + perfect cove = great recipe!:pimp:

with about ten of your cove dwelling buddies! Life is good....

[mrfixxall]

SS 280. We looked hard at the 370 and the 400, but I wasn't ready to commit to a marina quite yet, as the real nice ones here are a bit of a drive from our place. Buizilla suggested we look at the 280 as a nice compromise and still trailer-able, we found a great deal working with Formula, and the rest is history. Thrilled.
with about ten of your cove dwelling buddies! Life is good....

Beautiful ride:) i was on one yesterday (28ss)that a buddy just picked up,twin 350s with bravo2's and all the toys! Nice boat......