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Sweet Cheekz
05-20-2009, 05:55 PM
Just got back from AOTH and saw a lot of great boats Just wondering how many 90mph+ Donzi 22's are around and what does it take to get there? Seems there are a few 20 Cigs based on Phils crew Does anyone know if the 20 cigs can take bigger power or ride better at those speeds Thanks
Parnell

Donziweasel
05-20-2009, 06:03 PM
650 hp ought to get you there......:)

Teds (Mr. X) is the fastest 22 I have heard of at just north of a 100. Can you say Ilmore?

I don't think there are too many 22 in the 90 mph club, yet.

osur866
05-20-2009, 06:10 PM
I had the pleasure of riding in probably the fastest 22 on sunday at AOTH, Byrons 540 blackhawk boat and really enjoyed it, thanks again byron for the ride, was well worth the wait :) . It certainly is a very different ride than an 18 for sure. Steve

BigGrizzly
05-20-2009, 06:45 PM
Actually, Teds is faster then Bryons. Catch22 has a 93 mph 22, I run 86 and the boat is faster then me. I think Teds goes 103. The problem is it is work to drive them. I think the biggest power that phil puts in is a 540, with above 650 hp. By the way thoes Cigarettes aren't that good, They got just as wet as I did coming back from Lees Ford:yes::yes::yes:

VetteLT193
05-20-2009, 06:51 PM
Actually, Teds is faster then Bryons. Catch22 has a 93 mph 22, I run 86 and the boat is faster then me. I think Teds goes 103. The problem is it is work to drive them. I think the biggest power that phil puts in is a 540, with above 650 hp. By the way thoes Cigarettes aren't that good, They got just as wet as I did coming back from Lees Ford:yes::yes::yes:

Any splinters in your face? :bonk::bonk::bonk::bonk::bonk:

Lenny
05-20-2009, 07:10 PM
They got just as wet as I did coming back from Lees Ford:yes::yes::yes:

Grizz, p.s. ( windshields are for sissy's ) :tongue:

:D

Sweet Cheekz
05-20-2009, 07:34 PM
Does Ted's have a bravo or a blackhawk and is it the 700 Ilmore? Does anyone have an imco shorty on a bravo? BTW Phil said his best is 97 with a 540/650 Parnell

BigGrizzly
05-20-2009, 07:43 PM
Ted had a bravo shorty, he now may have the total IMOR package, and yes it is a 710.

BigGrizzly
05-20-2009, 07:50 PM
Actually this is his second 100+ 22. the first one was a SC600, which he sold to do an 18 which he sold to do this project. These don't include the ZX boats he had.

Just Say N20
05-20-2009, 08:06 PM
Parnell,

Now that you have some seat time, do you have any feel for how fast your phenomenal boat is going to run?

I LOVE the 3,000 rpm = 50 mph cruise.

Carl C
05-20-2009, 08:07 PM
Does anyone have an imco shorty on a bravo?

Oh yeah, there are a few of those running around ;).

Sweet Cheekz
05-20-2009, 08:53 PM
Parnell,

Now that you have some seat time, do you have any feel for how fast your phenomenal boat is going to run?

I LOVE the 3,000 rpm = 50 mph cruise.

This weekend I will push the envelope a little. Grizz was nice enough to give me a second prop to test and I have three days to find the right water and set my personal bar a little higher. Carl, did you have a regular bravo b4 the shorty I assume you hahave now? Just wondering if the shorty is as good, or better than a blackhawk for speed and handeling on a 22. Thanks

Carl C
05-20-2009, 09:19 PM
This weekend I will push the envelope a little. Grizz was nice enough to give me a second prop to test and I have three days to find the right water and set my personal bar a little higher. Carl, did you have a regular bravo b4 the shorty I assume you hahave now? Just wondering if the shorty is as good, or better than a blackhawk for speed and handeling on a 22. Thanks

Yeah, regular Bravo x. The blackhawk is completely different than a shorty. The shorty is basically raising the X dimension for less drag. Mine gave me 3 mph and the boat runs flatter. The blackhawk is a surface drive that Mercury only made for a short time. You'll have to talk to the blackhawk guys about running those.

Sweet Cheekz
05-20-2009, 09:50 PM
Has anyone ever run an extention box on a 22?
Thanks Carl Hope your rpoject is done soon Look forward to seeing it one of these days

mrfixxall
05-20-2009, 09:58 PM
Ted had a bravo shorty, he now may have the total IMOR package, and yes it is a 710.


Griz,i thought ted has a ITS set up?

Lenny
05-21-2009, 01:39 AM
No, I think Ted has an external Stern Jack and a BRAVO ;) like an outboard but 5 times more expensive...
as in "X" factor ...

SilverBack
05-21-2009, 06:33 AM
No, I think Ted has an external Stern Jack and a BRAVO ;) like an outboard but 5 times more expensive...
as in "X" factor ...


If it is the one that he showed us a few years ago ...... it is not expensive...you can't even buy one....he gets all the good stuff!!! I wanted to get one for my boat but no dice!!! I wish that he would post a picture of it on the boat!!

roadtrip se
05-21-2009, 08:37 AM
There are very few 22's breaking 90.

As for the ones discussed here from a drive perspective...

Catch 22's has a shorty.

Ted's has an XR shorty with an ITS stetup which does give him an extension factor.

Byron runs a BH at a deep X-dim. Not sure what he runs.

One that wasn't discussed was the Widowmaker who showed this year at AOTH with a complete IMCO setup with shorty. Not sure what he runs.

Carl has one. I have had an XR for several years. So the 22 thing has been done by a few.

One very cool boat that I rode in for a short period was Steve's 18 with a shorty. I thought it ran very well with the shorty.

Food for thought.

The Hedgehog
05-21-2009, 08:37 AM
Actually, Teds is faster then Bryons. Catch22 has a 93 mph 22, I run 86 and the boat is faster then me. I think Teds goes 103. The problem is it is work to drive them. I think the biggest power that phil puts in is a 540, with above 650 hp. By the way thoes Cigarettes aren't that good, They got just as wet as I did coming back from Lees Ford:yes::yes::yes:

Phil has basically a built up 500 EFI that has been stroked to 540. The bottle neck is the intake. Eddie has never been able to get more than 610-620 out of that set up after days on the dyno. I hear that the Sterling guys won't promise over 625. I am pretty sure that Marc Boos has never been over 650 with that combo. I can't remember what number he got. I asked Phil what his Zul motor actually made on the dyno. He said about 615.

Eddie took the 500 EFI intake off the motor he was dynoing and put the modified Holley system he uses on the motor and picked up 85 hp on the first pull.

The 22 Donzi's I saw running had a much drier run than the cig 20's.

BigGrizzly
05-21-2009, 08:39 AM
Fix, with Ted, you can't tell he will change at the drop of a hat. Ted is into clean uncluttered stern. Some of the pictures were od the merc internal steering boxes and are for sale. What he has don yesterday I can't tell you. Knowing Ted if it is not perfect it won't debut. Ted is not a bling king but a neat and tidy KING. Trust me when I tell you it will be the most perfect unit when it shows up at an event. He is one of the guys that you can buy sight unseen and not worry about it. I have invited him up here but I know if he shows up it will cost me in neatness, by the time he leaves I will have a laundry list as big as a toilet paper role.:boggled:

widowmaker
05-21-2009, 10:00 AM
Byron and I discussed the performance of each of our boats at AOTH. As others have observed, his boat is wicked fast. He can speak for himself as to his boat's top speed. My boat runs the IMCO hydraulic transom assembly with a 1.50:1/XR/Shorty drive. At AOTH I ran one of Grizzly's 28" TXP props which the GPS recall showed a top speed of 82 mph in sloppy water. I have a labbed 28" TXP that Bret Anderson at BBlades did for me which gives me another 250 rpms and 3 mph. I have only tested with the labbed prop one time, and I suspect that with relocating my batteries and a little more playing with trim, etc. there may be another mile or two available. With all the trash in the water at Cumberland, I did not want to use the labbed prop.

Sweet Cheekz
05-21-2009, 10:50 AM
Widow what cubic inch and hp is your motor?

BigGrizzly
05-21-2009, 11:40 AM
Hold it Cig, your not done with the 16. I can see it now another another multi owner Donzi person with a case of the bling. His her's and the kids, still cheaper than the saber.

Sweet Cheekz
05-21-2009, 03:41 PM
Hold it Cig, your not done with the 16. I can see it now another another multi owner Donzi person with a case of the bling. His her's and the kids, still cheaper than the saber.

Too true Grizz but I am done fiberglassing for a while. :) Got a new idea for the 16 at aoth and hope to have it done for Lake George I will be testing those props this weekend as soon as I get all the rest of the wood out of my water pump:nilly:and I am looking to step it up a bit and see where this thing rings out.

Just investigating new ideas for the future, based on my sons reaction to the fun run I may be out of a boat sooner than I thought.

Parnell

Sweet Cheekz
05-21-2009, 03:42 PM
There are very few 22's breaking 90.

As for the ones discussed here from a drive perspective...

Catch 22's has a shorty.

Ted's has an XR shorty with an ITS stetup which does give him an extension factor.

Byron runs a BH at a deep X-dim. Not sure what he runs.

One that wasn't discussed was the Widowmaker who showed this year at AOTH with a complete IMCO setup with shorty. Not sure what he runs.

Carl has one. I have had an XR for several years. So the 22 thing has been done by a few.

One very cool boat that I rode in for a short period was Steve's 18 with a shorty. I thought it ran very well with the shorty.

Food for thought.

Does anyone on this board have a bravo on a 16?

ITTLFLI
05-21-2009, 03:57 PM
Just got back from AOTH and saw a lot of great boats Just wondering how many 90mph+ Donzi 22's are around and what does it take to get there? Seems there are a few 20 Cigs based on Phils crew Does anyone know if the 20 cigs can take bigger power or ride better at those speeds Thanks
Parnell

A few 22 owners have shorty's up in Michigan. Snag a ride with them.

Then come on down to Cincy and I'll take you for a ride in my 1994 22 540(575hp)/Bravo boat that I now run a BH at the "stock" (read..low) bravo X dimemsion. It runs good. I am very happy with it.

If you come down I am sure I can get you a ride in Mike Lipschutz's red 20 cig that has a BH on a raised box. This boat came from the factory this way back in 1995. It runs really good!

widowmaker
05-21-2009, 04:06 PM
Widow what cubic inch and hp is your motor?

Cig,
My engine displaces 496 inches and develops something over 650 hp. We dynoed it at 650 after bumping up the compression and swaping the camshaft. It appeared that the valve springs were beginning to give up on top end with the new cam, so they were changed out for a set with more seat pressure. This made a significant difference on top end, but I did not return to the dyno for another $400.00 test session.

Pismo
05-21-2009, 04:54 PM
A few 22 owners have shorty's up in Michigan. Snag a ride with them.
Then come on down to Cincy and I'll take you for a ride in my 1994 22 540(575hp)/Bravo boat that I now run a BH at the "stock" (read..low) bravo X dimemsion. It runs good. I am very happy with it.
If you come down I am sure I can get you a ride in Mike Lipschutz's red 20 cig that has a BH on a raised box. This boat came from the factory this way back in 1995. It runs really good!

Is that a BH on a standard 22 hull?

ITTLFLI
05-21-2009, 04:56 PM
Is that a BH on a standard 22 hull?

Yes........came from factory w/ 454 mag/bravo

BUIZILLA
05-21-2009, 06:21 PM
it's the best running attitude BH drive setup i've seen yet...

Sweet Cheekz
05-21-2009, 07:04 PM
[quote=ITTLFLI;514262]A few 22 owners have shorty's up in Michigan. Snag a ride with them.

Then come on down to Cincy and I'll take you for a ride in my 1994 22 540(575hp)/Bravo boat that I now run a BH at the "stock" (read..low) bravo X dimemsion. It runs good. I am very happy with it. quote]

What speed do you run? Can you tell me the difference between the bravo and the blackhawk? Whats a blackhawk rated too?

Donziweasel
05-21-2009, 07:20 PM
Blackhawk is a twin prop (think Bravo III) surface piercing drive. Very little drag and very fast. Also, very much a hands on drive at high speed. You have to drive whatever boat it is bolted too with all your attention at high speed.

Only made for few years.....

RickSE
05-21-2009, 07:24 PM
You guys are leaving out the 22SE in the NE with a blown 500EFI. I thought someone stated it runs in the low 90's.

Sweet Cheekz
05-21-2009, 07:39 PM
Blackhawk is a twin prop (think Bravo III) surface piercing drive. Very little drag and very fast. Also, very much a hands on drive at high speed. You have to drive whatever boat it is bolted too with all your attention at high speed.

Only made for few years.....

This is exactly what I am trying to figure out. If I bought a project 22 and had my choice would I go blackhawk or bravo shorty and what ponies will I need to get well over 90.

ITTLFLI
05-21-2009, 08:17 PM
This is exactly what I am trying to figure out. If I bought a project 22 and had my choice would I go blackhawk or bravo shorty and what ponies will I need to get well over 90.

If starting from scratch a blown 540 efi(800 ponies+/-) on a Konrad! Yup...thats what I would do in your scenario. :tongue:

BH are rare and props are even more rare....

Call me if you want to chat...513.470.8480 Byron

Sutphen Guy
05-21-2009, 10:45 PM
cigcr35, if you are looking to go 90 mph plus give our 21 Sutphen a look.
Our blue SSX 496 HO boat ran low 80's all weekend with the wife and 3 kids aboard.
Rich Jr made a few passes with it alone on Sunday, gps was showing 85 mph, not bad for stock 496 HO with a stock out of the box prop and only a few hours of run time on the boat.

Morgan

Carl C
05-22-2009, 06:18 AM
Forget the Blackhawk. Like Ittlfli says, you can't even find them any more. There are a lot of other drive choices. If you are starting from sratch with no drive and are really shooting for 90+ mph I would go with a complete Imco drive, or Konrad or Teague. There are others too. If you go Bravo you will need an XR.

BUIZILLA
05-22-2009, 06:56 AM
cigcr35, if you are looking to go 90 mph plus give our 21 Sutphen a look.
Our blue SSX 496 HO boat ran low 80's all weekend with the wife and 3 kids aboard.
Rich Jr made a few passes with it alone on Sunday, gps was showing 85 mph, not bad for stock 496 HO with a stock out of the box prop and only a few hours of run time on the boat.

Morgan while I sincerely appreciate your product, shouldn't you be promoting sales of your product on a Sutphen enthusiast site? Parnell expressed specific interest in a 22 Donzi.

just sayin'

mattyboy
05-22-2009, 06:59 AM
yes the whipple 22se is north of 90 mph De Nuyer's boat I think

this one

http://www.lgdonziclassic.com/gallery/album02/7_G

Morgan,

sorry we missed you out in the hudson glad you took the boat out to KY,

I'll drop you a line later in the summer i'll try and get the guys together on Greenwood lake and you can bring the Sutphen down or if you come down sooner look me up I am at Emerald point most of the time
85 nice ;) the boat runs like a scalded cat



I think someone here namely Ted ;) is already thinking of the 700 hp ilmor indy drive package for a 22 if I were in the quest for a 90 + mph 22 classic that's the road on be on ;)

roadtrip se
05-22-2009, 08:28 AM
while I sincerely appreciate your product, shouldn't you be promoting sales of your product on a Sutphen enthusiast site? Parnell expressed specific interest in a 22 Donzi.

just sayin'

Don't mind Jim too much Morgan, his bark is much worse than his bite. There is a short list of folks that I would always want on my side of the table, and he is one of them.

I enjoyed the quick ride out to the raft-off in one of your boats. They do have a nice ride, no rattles, and appear to be done up with first class materials. Next year, I would show up with more power. And be sure to be there for the start of the fun run. Run them in the rough and THAT will get folk's attention.

In the mean time, I have a little work to do on the flowerpot, so don't think we are standing still waiting on you guys.

Todd

BigGrizzly
05-22-2009, 08:37 AM
First the bravoIII is not a surf drive. The BH is slower then the shorty, proved this one. It may be more stable but not faster. The SE in the NE had a wipple on it and well over 750 ponies (BTW this guy is no novice). I have been going in the 80 s for a long time, over 8 years, and trust me on this my boat is set up well, and it takes a lot of concentration to go over 82 things happen really fast on a 22 at that speed. It isn't that hard to go fast the control is the issue. All you need is one of our low deck 540, regular fuel carb units and it doesn't care if you have a bravo(short lived), Imco( better) or a Konrad ( my choice). Hydraulic is a must. Knowing Parnell and his past the ability is there in the driver, next is the hardware.

The Hedgehog
05-22-2009, 09:14 AM
First the bravoIII is not a surf drive. The BH is slower then the shorty, proved this one. It may be more stable but not faster. The SE in the NE had a wipple on it and well over 750 ponies (BTW this guy is no novice). I have been going in the 80 s for a long time, over 8 years, and trust me on this my boat is set up well, and it takes a lot of concentration to go over 82 things happen really fast on a 22 at that speed. It isn't that hard to go fast the control is the issue. All you need is one of our low deck 540, regular fuel carb units and it doesn't care if you have a bravo(short lived), Imco( better) or a Konrad ( my choice). Hydraulic is a must. Knowing Parnell and his past the ability is there in the driver, next is the hardware.


THAT would be a NICE package.

Just to clarify Weasel's comment. He was talking about the counter rotating concept and not that the B-III was a surface drive.

In speaking about the B-III analogy, does anyone know what happened to the boat where the guy jacked up his X real high and attempted to use his B-III like a Blackhawk?

SilverBack
05-22-2009, 10:04 AM
Did CDMA ever get done with his 22C?? I am sure that dialed in he will be well over the 100 mark. I think the only trick is going to be carrying the bow and then it will be off to the races for him!!

Carl C
05-22-2009, 10:33 AM
Who is this?

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/273795/donzi_22_classic_running_93_5_mph/

Air 22
05-22-2009, 11:41 AM
yes the whipple 22se is north of 90 mph De Nuyer's boat I think
this one
http://www.lgdonziclassic.com/gallery/album02/7_G
Morgan,
sorry we missed you out in the hudson glad you took the boat out to KY,
I'll drop you a line later in the summer i'll try and get the guys together on Greenwood lake and you can bring the Sutphen down or if you come down sooner look me up I am at Emerald point most of the time
85 nice ;) the boat runs like a scalded cat
I think someone here namely Ted ;) is already thinking of the 700 hp ilmor indy drive package for a 22 if I were in the quest for a 90 + mph 22 classic that's the road on be on ;)

Yes that is Jim DeNooyer Sr's boat..a 22Cse built by Performance Marine on LG. I went to school with his 3 son's Jim Tom and Joel...that boat is 90+ all day everyday...but as Grizz pointed out..U have to DRIVE it at those speeds with alot of water and space.:) Jim has told me more than once that its a handfull at those speeds...and it can get ugly real fast. They also run a the King Sting...a Skater that runs 160+ so they are familiar with fast boats.:)

RedDog
05-22-2009, 11:50 AM
Who is this?

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/273795/donzi_22_classic_running_93_5_mph/

Ted - Mister X

I believe that is the boat he built with the 600 SC

mattyboy
05-22-2009, 12:49 PM
Ted - Mister X

I believe that is the boat he built with the 600 SC
that's when i believe his board "handle" was 600 SC ;) or something like that

Sweet Cheekz
05-22-2009, 01:52 PM
cigcr35, if you are looking to go 90 mph plus give our 21 Sutphen a look.
Our blue SSX 496 HO boat ran low 80's all weekend with the wife and 3 kids aboard.
Rich Jr made a few passes with it alone on Sunday, gps was showing 85 mph, not bad for stock 496 HO with a stock out of the box prop and only a few hours of run time on the boat.

Morgan

Hey Morgan
I had a look at your boat at AOTH and it is very nice I have already owned a Sutphen and it was very fast. However, I already am invested in a ton of Cigarette clothes and now Donzi clothes. I simply can not afford to roll my wardrobe over again. :nilly:

Plus, and I'm just guessing here, you are probably not exactly the project boat at a project price that I am looking for. Projects are kind of my thing. Nice boat though
Parnell

Sweet Cheekz
05-22-2009, 02:01 PM
Who is this?

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/273795/donzi_22_classic_running_93_5_mph/

Cool vid Needs a new speedo though

Carl C
05-22-2009, 02:21 PM
Cool vid Needs a new speedo though

hehe, yup. At first I thought it was broken and I'm thinking "why are they filming the broken speedo?". At the end you can see it go down though. Cool video but too short!

Sweet Cheekz
05-22-2009, 02:22 PM
You just put in a 525 and have a shorty? What are you expecting with that Carl?

Carl C
05-22-2009, 02:49 PM
You just put in a 525 and have a shorty? What are you expecting with that Carl?

My fuzzy math is telling me 83-84

Sutphen Guy
05-22-2009, 03:25 PM
Hey Parnell,

It's always great to watch guys like you putting together project boats.
Good luck with which ever boat you buy. Let me know if you want to start out new with a very effecient 100 % vinyl ester resin custom hand built boat, may be we can help you with your project. I'm sure a 525 bravo set up would put you in the mph range you are looking for.

Morgan

Sutphen Guy
05-22-2009, 03:41 PM
Buizilla,

Sorry I didn't get to meet you in Kentucky, I wanted to thank you for helping Danny J and I out a few weeks ago when the storm blew through Miami and the phones were down in your area. Thanks.
As far as Parnell, I read his first post and it seemed he was comparing some of the Cig 20's to some of the Donzi's and which one may be suited for big power and what to expect.
I thought it was pretty cool that the first 3 boats to Lee's Ford for lunch were all built from a different manufacture.
Just thought I would let Parnell know that he has more than one option in getting to 90 in a little sport boat.
Phil L. mentioned this run to me at the Miami show and then I got a few invites from some Donzi guys, I am glad we came and meet a great group of boaters.

Donziweasel
05-22-2009, 04:41 PM
First the bravoIII is not a surf drive.


Just to clarify Weasel's comment. He was talking about the counter rotating concept and not that the B-III was a surface drive.

Randy, what Bill said. Just trying to give him a visual of what a Blackhawk looks like with counter rotating dual props. :)

Mr X
05-22-2009, 05:40 PM
Who is this?

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/273795/donzi_22_classic_running_93_5_mph/

Carl,
it is my last 22.....

Marlin275
05-22-2009, 06:00 PM
the first 3 boats to Lee's Ford for lunch were all built from a different manufacture.


Who and what were they?

osur866
05-22-2009, 06:45 PM
Carl,
it is my last 22..... Ted are we going to get a cockpit vid of your Ilmore 22? :wink: Steve

Cuda
05-22-2009, 07:04 PM
Is this the Parnell who I think it is?

Cuda
05-22-2009, 07:10 PM
It should be pointed out that Catch 22 is getting those speeds with his "Junior Acheiver" 454 and a shorty. He modeled this boat colors exactly like Ted's HP600.

Mr X
05-22-2009, 09:25 PM
Yes... :nilly: :nilly: :nilly: :)
As is Adam from Bonanza?

Mr X
05-22-2009, 09:28 PM
Ted are we going to get a cockpit vid of your Ilmore 22? :wink: Steve
Yes, soon......if this rain ever stops.

CHACHI
05-23-2009, 07:16 AM
As is Adam from Bonanza?
You ranch owners are tight.

Ken

Sweet Cheekz
05-23-2009, 08:43 AM
I'll ship ya some goggle ya weenie... :tongue::anchor::hyper::bonk:

Goggles don't keep the forehead from getting dented. Just ask the AOTH crowd from last Fridays little present. Try a wood obstacle course with your head between your legs. It's little wonder I had a log jam in my water pump

Cuda
I doubt there are too many Parnell's addicted to boating in the world How are you?

catch 22
05-24-2009, 11:15 PM
It should be pointed out that Catch 22 is getting those speeds with his "Junior Acheiver" 454 and a shorty. He modeled this boat colors exactly like Ted's HP600.
I was wondering when you were going to bring up my "Junior Acheiver" . As far as Mr. X's SC600, it was one of the baddest 22's that I had ever seen.