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View Full Version : Extension Boxes...Big Tabs....and Cig 20s?????



SilverBack
05-08-2009, 11:00 AM
I was looking at Todd's pictures revving everyone up for AOTH and was feeling very bad that I could not be there when I came across the picture of the Cig 20. I have heard you guys that make it to AOTH talk about those boats and how fast they are and was wondering why I never see one of you 22C guys with an extension box or big tabs and not only do I not see any of you with them but most speak out pretty quickly against using them. Is there that much difference in a Cig 20 and a 22 Classic?? It seems that my setup is closer to one of those modified Cig 20s that Lipship ( I think that is right) runs than the Classic guys..... ???????

gcarter
05-08-2009, 11:54 AM
This comment has nothing to do with boxes and tabs, but a Cig 20 has its widest point of beam at the transom. It seems to have been designed from the ground up to have a very large engine sitting in the stern, relative to its length anyway.
If I'm correct, and I'm not sure I am, then anything a person could do to trick the boat into thinking it was longer than it is would be benificial.
Donzi Classic hulls are completely different.

SilverBack
05-08-2009, 12:13 PM
This comment has nothing to do with boxes and tabs, but a Cig 20 has its widest point of beam at the transom. It seems to have been designed from the ground up to have a very large engine sitting in the stern, relative to its length anyway.
If I'm correct, and I'm not sure I am, then anything a person could do to trick the boat into thinking it was longer than it is would be beneficial.
Donzi Classic hulls are completely different.

Thanks George!!! That is some very good information. I know that I have read that some of the guys think that the 22C is a little cramped with a BBC. Do you have any idea how much wider a Cig 20 is than a 22C. Is the bottom of the boats similar?

The 26 ZX is very similar to my boat but they extended it a foot and a half or so and added the step bottom. They seem to act a lot different from each other though.

ITTLFLI
05-08-2009, 01:16 PM
All of the newer 20's(different deck 95 and later) have a PAD also.....:)

All except the 100+mph one that Tamm used to own.

Planetwarmer
05-08-2009, 01:37 PM
And a 22C is 2.5 feet longer than a cig 20.

BlownCrewCab
05-08-2009, 02:01 PM
Last year at AOTH I was a passenger in Toms 22, I was sitting in the back watching one of those high dollar 20' Cigs run next to us, Going 65mph in some sloppy boat wake water that 20'cig spent more time in the air than on the water, whereas Toms 22 sucked it up like it was nothing. Big difference in handling. 22 for me......

ITTLFLI
05-08-2009, 02:30 PM
When did Tamm's do 100?
After he sold it to Tom A...the guy that has it now...also the guy that put a 598(i think..i know big cube)in it!!:wink:

SilverBack
05-08-2009, 02:40 PM
After he sold it to Tom A...the guy that has it now...also the guy that put a 598(i think..i know big cube)in it!!:wink:


Does this boat have the extension box and bigger tabs on it? What is the difference in handling with and without the box and tabs?

ITTLFLI
05-08-2009, 02:57 PM
Does this boat have the extension box and bigger tabs on it? What is the difference in handling with and without the box and tabs?


Big Tabs
No Box
Blackhawk @ "stock Bravo" X

roadtrip se
05-08-2009, 03:33 PM
The boats run so different, that in my opinion comparing them to a 22 is apples and melons.

I will tell you that they run very, very well with power.

They do seem to look for clean water, lurking over on the edges of the crowd, and then coming out of no where to leave you in a mist.

I am not sold that the 380s really help the handling at cruise speeds. I witnessed a lot of nose, tail, nose, tail, on the extended blackhawk boats.

But when they go, they go, and the set-up seems to really level them out at top end. As the pace boat on the final blast of the fun run, I got to see them like Raptors at all angles. They seemed to be doing okay then. Nice and level. Phil could have reached out and borrowed a jar of Grey Poupon at 80+ from me.

I just need more power to see how they really do up top...

SilverBack
05-08-2009, 03:43 PM
The boats run so different, that in my opinion comparing them to a 22 is apples and melons.

I will tell you that they run very, very well with power.

They do seem to look for clean water, lurking over on the edges of the crowd, and then coming out of no where to leave you in a mist.

I am not sold that the 380s really help the handling at cruise speeds. I witnessed a lot of nose, tail, nose, tail, on the extended blackhawk boats.

But when they go, they go, and the set-up seems to really level them out at top end. As the pace boat on the final blast of the fun run, I got to see them like Raptors at all angles. They seemed to be doing okay then. Nice and level. Phil could have reached out and borrowed a jar of Grey Poupon at 80+ from me.

I just need more power to see how they really do up top...

Thanks for the information Todd!! I think that my boat has some running similarities with them. I am not saying that I have a 20 Cig so don't take me wrong but it sounds like from what people are saying that with my boat having the extension box and raised X and big power that I am seeing a lot of the same stuff. My boat is running far better than I ever dreamed it would though and I have still got a few more MPH to wring out of it.

BigGrizzly
05-08-2009, 04:35 PM
Just to clear the air, at the events when I looked at all of them closely they were all different. One had a shorty one had a TRS and a 540 in it and I don't remember the third one but I think it had a BH. So which is which, they were all for sale at 100,000. There would be no comparison between Silverback's and theirs. I do know someone that had a 22 with a 825 in it and put a bob on it and did not go any faster, but that was 9 years ago. Dennis Cavenaugh from merc labbed a bunch of stuff for him but it seemed thet he got nowhere with the box. he removed the engine and bov and put the box on his Phantom and sold the engine. the 22 Donzi was put back together and sold in north
Ga. Answer to the next question, yes he went over 100, but will not do it again. BTW he was a offshore racer, now retired and broke..

rr1048
05-08-2009, 04:46 PM
From my experience owning numerous 18 & 16 Donzi's and spending much time driving and riding with friends in their 28 Cigarette's and 27 Magnums ect. The 20' Cigarette is a totally different boat than the 18 Donzi's and handles like a much bigger boat in many ways. It does not have the length of the bigger boats but in light to moderate chop of 2' to 4' seas we have smoked many 28 Cigarette with double the hp. What we found was that the 20's like the sky at lower speeds 30-40 and bounce similar to an 18 Donzi but when you want to get serious you need to put the hammer down and the boat is like a missle and will eat up the waves and stay on top and flattens out. When you let off the throttle from high speed run back to cruise speed in rough choppy seas you better hang on. We have given these 20' Cigarettes, everything we had, seen many broken 18 Donzi's trying to keep up and the 20's are like trying to break a "steel ball"
The 20' Cigarette likes HP especially with a TRS because of the weight of a BB and transmission. I have spent 100's of hours driving and riding in 20' Cigarette's from the days with friends in their boats and owning one today. The 20's with the 330 package were bullet proof but lacked the HP to make them perform at their best. I have a 20 that started out with a 330 and currently has a HP425. The boat is a different machine with the 425 and handles like a dream.

SilverBack
05-08-2009, 05:37 PM
From my experience owning numerous 18 & 16 Donzi's and spending much time driving and riding with friends in their 28 Cigarette's and 27 Magnums ect. The 20' Cigarette is a totally different boat than the 18 Donzi's and handles like a much bigger boat in many ways. It does not have the length of the bigger boats but in light to moderate chop of 2' to 4' seas we have smoked many 28 Cigarette with double the hp. What we found was that the 20's like the sky at lower speeds 30-40 and bounce similar to an 18 Donzi but when you want to get serious you need to put the hammer down and the boat is like a missle and will eat up the waves and stay on top and flattens out. When you let off the throttle from high speed run back to cruise speed in rough choppy seas you better hang on. We have given these 20' Cigarettes, everything we had, seen many broken 18 Donzi's trying to keep up and the 20's are like trying to break a "steel ball"
The 20' Cigarette likes HP especially with a TRS because of the weight of a BB and transmission. I have spent 100's of hours driving and riding in 20' Cigarette's from the days with friends in their boats and owning one today. The 20's with the 330 package were bullet proof but lacked the HP to make them perform at their best. I have a 20 that started out with a 330 and currently has a HP425. The boat is a different machine with the 425 and handles like a dream.


Sweet picture!!

Last Real Texan
05-08-2009, 06:24 PM
It's all about the Benjamins.......$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ how fast you want to go depends on the wallet...how much $$$$ you got?

Tex

SilverBack
05-08-2009, 06:31 PM
It's all about the Benjamins.......$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ how fast you want to go depends on the wallet...how much $$$$ you got?

Tex

None...any more!!!!

RedDog
05-08-2009, 07:15 PM
... but in light to moderate chop of 2' to 4' seas we have smoked ...

smoked - yeah I guess smoked something

Conquistador_del_mar
05-08-2009, 07:39 PM
I was looking at Todd's pictures revving everyone up for AOTH and was feeling very bad that I could not be there when I came across the picture of the Cig 20. I have heard you guys that make it to AOTH talk about those boats and how fast they are and was wondering why I never see one of you 22C guys with an extension box or big tabs and not only do I not see any of you with them but most speak out pretty quickly against using them. Is there that much difference in a Cig 20 and a 22 Classic?? It seems that my setup is closer to one of those modified Cig 20s that Lipship ( I think that is right) runs than the Classic guys..... ???????

It would be very interesting to me to see how the extention boxes would change the various characteristics of the 22' or even the 18' Donzi. I have yet to see one done. IMCO has a regular 12" box along with a 3" raised X box extention. My understanding is that they essentially make the hull act like they are longer since they push from a farther point behind the boat - therefore making the hull hanlde better at higher speeds. My best friend added one to his 26' American Offshore, but his boat was doing in the mid 120s. I don't recall him mentioning any handling differences, though - just speed #s. Maybe someone could try one out an report the differences. I would guess they get a much better ride - especially on the smaller length boats. Bill

Last Real Texan
05-08-2009, 07:40 PM
None...any more!!!!
I think you have done quite well................spending the dough....you are very fast:shocking:


Tex

SilverBack
05-08-2009, 08:03 PM
I think you have done quite well................spending the dough....you are very fast:shocking:


Tex

Thanks Tex....You are the MAN!! It is really starting to hit me that I am not going to be at AOTH with you and Bill and Michael!!! It really sucks!! You guys are going to have a blast!! I can't wait to hear how Bill's boat is going to do with the bigger tabs and different props. I am going to get him to try my Maximus when I get it back from BBLADES.


My boat has done better than I ever dreamed it would. My new goal is 110 MPH....... it will be a stretch but I think that it is doable!!

BlownCrewCab
05-08-2009, 08:53 PM
Well you won't be missing me there.:frown: My nephews graduation is sunday and my Mom and sister are coming up from Miami so I'll Probaby have to go to that instead of Ky (Damn, Damn, Damn,) One of my buddys is the chief inspector for OSS and I was going to try to get over and see him, maybe get on the paceboat or a turn boat for the race, ain't gonna happen now....

Donzi Racer
05-08-2009, 09:26 PM
Well you won't be missing me there.:frown: My nephews graduation is sunday and my Mom and sister are coming up from Miami so I'll Probaby have to go to that instead of Ky (Damn, Damn, Damn,) One of my buddys is the chief inspector for OSS and I was going to try to get over and see him, maybe get on the paceboat or a turn boat for the race, ain't gonna happen now....


Well it will not be the same in many ways without you. I guess I will just sink this year. That is unless I can get Donzi Vol to climb in with the engine at full throttle and remove the plug to get the water out. ha ha Okay, now I am coming off a plane so get back there quick and put the plug back in. Quick quick!!!! Be sure to call me and tell me how to replace a impeller on a alpha 1. Oh yea, who will bring the clear liquid this year? I was planning on going into business selling that stuff this year. You sure you can't come over friday and go back saturday night? hmmmm? Tom

BlownCrewCab
05-08-2009, 09:59 PM
If you need some of the clear liquid let me know and I'll hook up with David and give it to him...If anyone else wants some let me know (along with David, Donzi Vol) and we'll get it done. I know he's heading there on thursday so you gotta be quick.. $10 per qt (one sold last year for 3 benjamins)

Carl C
05-09-2009, 06:53 AM
I wonder how the Integrated Transom System (ITS) would work on my 22C w/the 525. It has 7" of set-back and self contained dual ram steering.

SilverBack
05-09-2009, 07:06 AM
I wonder how the Integrated Transom System (ITS) would work on my 22C w/the 525. It has 7" of set-back and self contained dual ram steering.

Is the ITS cheaper than dual ram hydraulic steering on your Bravo? You are going to have to put a box it that thing though......it just would not be right without it!!!:wink:

Carl C
05-09-2009, 08:02 AM
Is the ITS cheaper than dual ram hydraulic steering on your Bravo? You are going to have to put a box it that thing though......it just would not be right without it!!!:wink:

I'm sure it's not cheap at all but since I already need the steering..........hmmmm. I just need to find some more loot.:nilly:

mattyboy
05-09-2009, 08:39 AM
the original cig 19 and the 18 are very close in hull design the cigs are built like tanks alot heavier now when the went to a BB setup the deck was changed slightly the hull stayed the same up until they added the pad
the cig rides much bigger more like a 22, it feels more of a sit in boat than an 18, the added glass is felt when running hard in sloppy water we beat the **** out the first one in ohio a few years back and in lake geogre they are great little boats

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45830&d=1241876910

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=43469&d=1235051021

rr1048
05-09-2009, 10:24 AM
The 20' Cigarette's is a case of looks may be deceiving. Unless you have driven one and got the feel, you will never know just how great they are.
Enjoy

SilverBack
05-09-2009, 10:36 AM
the original cig 19 and the 18 are very close in hull design the cigs are built like tanks alot heavier now when the went to a BB setup the deck was changed slightly the hull stayed the same up until they added the pad
the cig rides much bigger more like a 22, it feels more of a sit in boat than an 18, the added glass is felt when running hard in sloppy water we beat the **** out the first one in ohio a few years back and in lake geogre they are great little boats

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45830&d=1241876910

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=43469&d=1235051021


Is that the same boat??? NICE!!!

Conquistador_del_mar
05-09-2009, 11:00 AM
the original cig 19 and the 18 are very close in hull design the cigs are built like tanks alot heavier now when the went to a BB setup the deck was changed slightly the hull stayed the same up until they added the pad
the cig rides much bigger more like a 22, it feels more of a sit in boat than an 18, the added glass is felt when running hard in sloppy water we beat the **** out the first one in ohio a few years back and in lake geogre they are great little boats





The 20' Cigarette's is a case of looks may be deceiving. Unless you have driven one and got the feel, you will never know just how great they are.
Enjoy

Just wanted to say that I agree with you both about the 20' Cigarettes - built like tanks and great rides. I think I had this one for about 5 years before a friend had to offer me enough to sell it. Nice ones you both showed. Bill

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj316/Conquistador_del_mar/197520Cigaretteatdusk.jpg

mattyboy
05-09-2009, 11:12 AM
This comment has nothing to do with boxes and tabs, but a Cig 20 has its widest point of beam at the transom. It seems to have been designed from the ground up to have a very large engine sitting in the stern, relative to its length anyway.
If I'm correct, and I'm not sure I am, then anything a person could do to trick the boat into thinking it was longer than it is would be benificial.
Donzi Classic hulls are completely different.


speaking for the original cig hulls not the padded ones they are very close to the 18 in dimension can't speak for the 22 which is a relative newer comer to the party . the boat was designed for a sbc and a volvo combo then in the third year of production or so the big blocks were added and the trs and the cockpit was shrunk a little. for a 19' 7" boat they ride much much bigger
wish we could get our hands on the video from the LGPBA poker run we hung with the big boys, sbc old volvo drive no trim good ol boy stuff ;)

RR very well said :yes:

silver yes it is the same boat before and after


here's the only shot we can find the guy taking the the vid say's it all that little cigarette is flying ;) not real clear but you can see the black and yellow go by towards the back right in the slop of all the other boats. we did get to the front but the guys with the big boats and the bigger egos were like we can't let that little boat beat us :tongue:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pt8-g3Dzvo

mattyboy
05-11-2009, 08:17 AM
they do ride big but they are also very nimble boats