Propeller Dilemma 425 HO to HP525 EFI

[Carl C]

I like the Mercury Racing Bravo 1 props. I am currently running a 28p at near 5,000 rpm and 75 mph. I can top 77 and bump the rev limiter on a good day. I will be adding (depending on who you ask) about 125 hp. I will also be shooting for a slightly higher top rpm. The problem is that Teague doesn't like to take labbed props back and if they do approve a trade they charge $100 plus shipping. Can you prop gurus please tell me what pitch you think I will need to move up to? I have an Imco -2" shorty, thus the need to stick with a 4 blade.

My 28p will be going up for sale when I get repropped. It has one season and is like new.

[VetteLT193]

I think you'll find that you are the odd man out liking the Bravo. My brother has a raised X and he hated it. Everyone else seems to have the same consensus regarding that prop and the 22.

With that said, all of the advice you get here might not be that great for you.

The only think I can think of is: Have you considered testing non-labbed props then labbing the one you wind up liking?

[Carl C]

I think you'll find that you are the odd man out liking the Bravo. My brother has a raised X and he hated it. Everyone else seems to have the same consensus regarding that prop and the 22.

With that said, all of the advice you get here might not be that great for you.

The only think I can think of is: Have you considered testing non-labbed props then labbing the one you wind up liking?

There are a few of us here running Bravo 1s. The only other prop I would consider would be a Hydromotive but then I don't have a baseline to start with like I do now.

Does anyone here sell Hydromotives or Bravo 1s?

[VetteLT193]

There are a few of us here running Bravo 1s. The only other prop I would consider would be a Hydromotive but then I don't have a baseline to start with like I do now.

Does anyone here sell Hydromotives or Bravo 1s?

My bro runs a labbed hydromotive 27" with the HP500. Maybe give him a call first, or PM him. (donzi2287).

It runs better than the Mirage+ but is slower. The M+ blew out easy, especially on planing. The Hydro does not like to blow out, he just told me yesterday that even if it does blow out it's recoverable Vs. the M+ was slow all the way down and start over (It was insane with the M+ how easy it was to blow out while planing). The little bit of time I spent running it with the hydro it seems to really like trim but still runs flatter. It's just different all around.

[Carl C]

To keep this from getting out of hand like most prop threads let's assume that I am set on sticking with a Mercury Racing Bravo 1. I will be adding 125 hp. I will be shooting for 200 more rpms on the top. Where should I start? I don't know what top speed to expect but am hoping for 82ish.

Thanks, Vette, I will consider that.

[VetteLT193]

To keep this from getting out of hand like most prop threads let's assume that I am set on sticking with a Mercury Racing Bravo 1. I will be adding 125 hp. I will be shooting for 200 more rpms on the top. Where should I start? I don't know what top speed to expect but am hoping for 82ish.

Thanks, Vette, I will consider that.

Mathmatically: If your slip stays the same, you add 200 RPM, and you are shooting for 82, you are looking at a 29" Bravo1. That's calculated on the 75 number, not the 77. So you should be able to bump a couple more MPH on a good day with that setup.

You could probably have your current prop worked for another inch.... or, if you just drive the boat a bit different to knock the slip down you will be at 82 with your current prop

[BigGrizzly]

If your going to keep using the The labbed B1 props then go up 2 inches, that should drop you 400 rpms and keep you off the rev limiter. But I am just guessing because no one has don that combination with a 22 with a shorty. Now the 525 has real good torque so you should be able to pull it off. The other thing I need to say, in defense of Teague, you had that prop for several months and have done more then tested it. You changed engines. You paid for one prop for one boat. You did not buy one prop for a lifetime. Now you changed your parameters. I am the most forgiving prop guy in the industry and would not exchange it either. Merc racing allows one tune up in a given time frame- small print. This very thing happened to me in september after a year the gentleman was going to repower and wanted to exchange his prop. The prop was only 5 + hours on it. I am a small business man and cannot afford exchange for the life of the owner. Sorry if this offends you but I am on their side this time. Here is how it should be done. First get the prop that fits your boat HP and driving style, then and only then if you need that god almighty one mile hp labb it( I am against labbing perod). I personally think you did this backwards You bough the Labbed prop first, then you wanted more speed and got an engine now you want to do it again. I don't want to say this but there are other HO boats that have achieved your speed with non labbed props, not many but some.

[BigGrizzly]

Vette's brother is not done yet. I think I will change his mind, and he is open to almost anything. Believe me when I tell you, Eddie doesn't just guess at answers unless it is the only game in town. The Blow out thing with the M+ is an old story. In all fairness the Bravo boyz Love the Merc racing Labbed props, and with good reason, they work well on their boats for what they do. The cost was $1,000 each. You want to play the role you pay the toll. How as for hydromotive Talk to Yeller on that one, then Cliff, Btw why isn't Road trip using his and using the TXP wiith his shorty.:yes: On the flip side Catch22 likes his 31 labbed Hydro.

[Carl C]

If your going to keep using the The labbed B1 props then go up 2 inches, that should drop you 400 rpms and keep you off the rev limiter. But I am just guessing because no one has don that combination with a 22 with a shorty. Now the 525 has real good torque so you should be able to pull it off. The other thing I need to say, in defense of Teague, you had that prop for several months and have done more then tested it. You changed engines. You paid for one prop for one boat. You did not buy one prop for a lifetime. Now you changed your parameters. I am the most forgiving prop guy in the industry and would not exchange it either. Merc racing allows one tune up in a given time frame- small print. This very thing happened to me in september after a year the gentleman was going to repower and wanted to exchange his prop. The prop was only 5 + hours on it. I am a small business man and cannot afford exchange for the life of the owner. Sorry if this offends you but I am on their side this time. Here is how it should be done. First get the prop that fits your boat HP and driving style, then and only then if you need that god almighty one mile hp labb it( I am against labbing perod). I personally think you did this backwards You bough the Labbed prop first, then you wanted more speed and got an engine now you want to do it again. I don't want to say this but there are other HO boats that have achieved your speed with non labbed props, not many but some.

That's not what happened. In fall of '07 I ordered a 26p MR Bravo 1 from Teaque. It turned out to be way to small in pitch. I needed to trade it for a 28p. It only had a couple hours of testing time on it. I had to get the trade approved by Bob himself and was charged the $100 plus shipping. Actually I never said that they were out of line even doing that. Of course they won't take back the one I've run for an entire season. I will be listing it for sale here. If I pay $900 for a prop i don't want a used one either. I am just saying that if I guess wrong it will cost me a couple more hundred bucks total. I am thinking going up two numbers in pitch, to a 30p.

[mrfixxall]

I say keep your prop and change gear ratio to 1:36 :) YO fogdocker,still got the 136?

[glashole]

was actually just going to say switch the gearing and stay with the smaller props

[Carl C]

I hate to open up the new shorty....Never done it before either so I would need to learn how and buy special tools and stuff.....I am leaning toward the Mercury Racing 30p Bravo 1..... Time is becoming a factor too and the shops are busy now and I don't really trust shops to do a job right.....:nilly::nilly:

[VetteLT193]

I hate to open up the new shorty....Never done it before either so I would need to learn how and buy special tools and stuff.....I am leaning toward the Mercury Racing 30p Bravo 1..... Time is becoming a factor too and the shops are busy now and I don't really trust shops to do a job right.....:nilly::nilly:

Try the 28 first before you blow another grand. If you can get the slip down and spin the 525 to 5200 you'll get the speed you want.

more prop doesn't == more speed. My brother runs faster with the 25 M+ than he does with the 27 Hydro. Grizz will take care of him soon for sure... all I'm getting at is don't over think it. Try what you have and go from there.

[The Hedgehog]

You don't touch the shorty Carl, gear change is in the upper...........:wink:

Really?

[mattyboy]

as Vette said get the motor in and use what you have good advice.

it does two things for you maybe more


you know how the boat handles with it and you how it performs with that prop

this will give you a good baseline to judge what performance improvements have been gained by the engine swap.

going to a new prop or more pitch and you are back at square one. re learning the boat , re testing props. re budgeting money


not sure where your plans stands now?? budget wise?? but before I'd go with any prop that takes you above 77mph I think steering should be addressed if it has not already been taken into account in your plan.

don't get caught up in so many things get the glass work done then get the motor in an run it then see where you are and then think about where you want to be.

you are starting to pinball again

[Carl C]

Ya gotta love prop threads. There is just no way of keeping them simple!:) I'm pretty sure the gear swap is in the lower but what do I know.

[handfulz28]

http://www.bblades.com/

He might even help you work a trade with your current prop if you end up buying a new one from him.

Small hijack request: when you talk Hydromotives, can you distinguish between which style? Hydro offers a lot of different props and more specifically they offer a 4-blade in a "cleaver" style (flat trailing edge) and also a round ear style (a la Bravo I). There can be a huge difference in results between the two blade types.

[roadtrip se]

Got to love it.

Try your 28 first. You may not have to do anything at all.
I run 27's, 28's, and 29's of varying types with a set-up very similar
to yours, so I predict the 28 will work just fine.

Now back to the bilge with you...

[roadtrip se]

would be the last thing I would do.

[The Hedgehog]

would be the last thing I would do.

No joke!

It would be much easier to try props first. Plus if he changed out the gears in the LOWER and found out that that was the wrong move he would have to change the gears on the LOWER back. That would be a major PITA.

I am not sure why we are getting into prop testing before install and steering:nilly: Heck, like you said, the 28 might actually be the prop.

[Mr X]

would be the last thing I would do.
100% agree!
Also the ratio in a Bravo is determined in the upper.
In a Bravo XR it is determined in the lower.

[mattyboy]

I am not sure why we are getting into prop testing before install and steering:nilly: Heck, like you said, the 28 might actually be the prop.




Ding Ding


we have a winner

Johnny tell Hedge what he has won .... ;)

[The Hedgehog]

100% agree!
Also the ratio in a Bravo is determined in the upper.
In a Bravo XR it is determined in the lower.

Good point. I have been thinking about XR's so long I forgot about that.

[Carl C]

Fogducker I will not be wanting the gears but thanks for the offer. It seems you are right about the upper though. I will try my prop but what I forsee is a mid range rocket that red-lines (5,400) before 80 mph.

Don't the lowers come in two gear ratios?

[mattyboy]

Carl


5400 rpm
1.5 gears
28 pitch prop
10% Slip


Is 85.9 mph


going on your current numbers you are at like 15% slip which is higher than it should be
not sure where your love for that prop came from?

[Carl C]

Carl


5400 rpm
1.5 gears
28 pitch prop
10% Slip


Is 85.9 mph

Bravo 1s are mis-leading. They are equal to two pitches lower on most props. That's why I can pull a 28p with a stock motor. Redo the math using 26p. Also 5,400 rpm is rev limiter. Recmmended top rpm is 5,200.

[mattyboy]

Bravo 1s are mis-leading. They are equal to two pitches lower on most props. That's why I can pull a 28p with a stock motor. Redo the math using 26p.


mis leading or mis marked????

[Carl C]

mis leading or mis marked????

Misleading!

[Carl C]

Matty, what is the formula to compute top speed?

[mattyboy]

Matty, what is the formula to compute top speed?
Carl there are a few different formulas for top speed

1 is stand on IT!
2. put the pedal to the metal
3 then there is the old school no replacement for displacement
4 it sucks if your not blown
:tongue:


but this is what you are looking for I think

fill in the 4 blanks and find the 5th

http://www.rbbi.com/folders/prop/propcalc.htm

[Air 22]

Misleading!
Get the eng in first...:)

When using a prop calc plugging for a MERCURY RACING BRAVO ONE LABBED PROP 28P use 27.3...this comes from BBLades and Mercury Racing. If you are using a non-labbed prop use the appropriate pitch #. From Mercury Racing the avg slip on New Labbed props is 16-18% which is higher than a non-labbed prop. Trading slip for speed is done by swinging a taller prop that produces advantages only at the top end. Rake, Cup and diameter all play roles in this multitude of configurations. Call Brett @ BBlades...920-295-4435 he has the answers your looking for. He will explain in detail how why and what to expect:wink:

I spunn 5400rpm 28P Bravo One(labbed) 1.50Bravo 78mph = 16.1% w my HP500EFI...I'm trying a 30P next 5400 is to high. My guess ur gonna need atleast a 30P especially w a shorty...

http://www.bblades.com/info/contactus.cfm

http://www.rbbi.com/folders/prop/propcalc.htm

5400rpm 1.50 27.3 Slip 15% 79.1mph

5400rpm 1.50 27.3 Slip 10% 83.8mph

Have fun and remember...what works for one boat may not work on another of similar type..test..and test again:)

[mattyboy]

Dwight
thanks that makes sense 2 inches of pitch was alot, labbing results in a prop that spins faster which usually goes hand in hand with higher slip numbers

[Carl C]

Matty, funny:) Dwight, I don't buy 27.3=28 when it comes to a Bravo 1. From experience I know it is closer to 26=28. I could not run a "27.3" pitch prop on my stock 496 HO. I guess I will revisit this later but not much later. The prop has to be part of the package. Dwight, also, if the Bravo 1 has those slip numbers for top end am I not also losing a lot of fuel economy? Maybe a 28p Hydromotive.............:)

[mattyboy]

Fuel Economy !!!!!


I don't care who you are that right there is funny :rlol:

[Air 22]

Matty, funny:) Dwight, I don't buy 27.3=28 when it comes to a Bravo 1. From experience I know it is closer to 26=28. I could not run a "27.3" pitch prop on my stock 496 HO. I guess I will revisit this later but not much later. The prop has to be part of the package. Dwight, also, if the Bravo 1 has those slip numbers for top end am I not also losing a lot of fuel economy? Maybe a 28p Hydromotive.............:)


Carl..I'm not selling anything for you to buy! The #'s I mention are from the Professionals in the business...don't shoot the messenger. Do yourself a favor Call Bret...or not.... do it your way....have fun:bighug:

[Carl C]

Fuel Economy !!!!!


I don't care who you are that right there is funny :rlol:

I know, I was going to type more but I'm at work now. I don't really care about fuel economy but if Bravo 1s have 18% slip on purpose and that is why the numbers don't jive with other prop pitches well that could make a real difference in fuel consumption. Fuel economy can also be a factor when cruising the Great Lakes and some cruises are pushing your distance limits. Dwight I will consider what you say. It is because of you that I run a Bravo 1, remember?

I will call Brett but isn't he mainly pushing his own props now?

Prop threads.....sheeesh

[Air 22]

I know, I was going to type more but I'm at work now. I don't really care about fuel economy but if Bravo 1s have 18% slip on purpose and that is why the numbers don't jive with other prop pitches well that could make a real difference in fuel consumption. Fuel economy can also be a factor when cruising the Great Lakes and some cruises are pushing your distance limits. Dwight I will consider what you say. It is because of you that I run a Bravo 1, remember?

I will call Brett but isn't he mainly pushing his own props now?

Prop threads.....sheeesh

He use to head up Mercury Racing's Prop Division...and has several of there former guys working for him. He will give you the info ur looking for...I stand 100% behind the Bravo One for my application...and recommend anyone trying props...try one... you might like it...you may not:wink:

[mattyboy]

I know, I was going to type more but I'm at work now. I don't really care about fuel economy but if Bravo 1s have 18% slip on purpose and that is why the numbers don't jive with other prop pitches well that could make a real difference in fuel consumption. Fuel economy can also be a factor when cruising the Great Lakes and some cruises are pushing your distance limits.


Please I am beggin ya to stop Carl, I can't laugh anymore, if fuel consupmtion is a concern then perhaps the 525 was not the choice???

that's it have had a enuff time to go to the bar, the office thinks I am more crazy then ever now laughing coming out of my office on a regular basis now


:rlol:

[The Hedgehog]

I was not aware that Brett at BBlades had a Donzi or had driven/tested numerous Donzi's. He will probably try to sell you a labbed Bravo. If you are lucky you will get a mph on top at the cost of 3mph of cruise (hey, I was not the one that mentioned economy but...). Heck, you may luck out like Tex or my friend John and pay twice as much for a prop that is 2-3 mph slower than an out of the box Bravo! I had the same experience when using non-Donzi "experts" for props.

No slam on Brett, he is a nice guy and I actually bought a Bravo I from him just to hold me over while I got my boat dialed in and ready for real testing. Not sure he is a Donzi expert though.

I would recommend trying everything out of the box before you go to cutting on them. Or better yet, spend the money you were going to spend on a prop for some good steering and get some good seat time. You will be seeing speeds that you will benefit for from seat time than messing around with props anyway. Once you figure that out it is time to go for that extra mph or so.

[DonziJon]

Fuel economy can also be a factor when cruising the Great Lakes and some cruises are pushing your distance limits.
Prop threads.....sheeesh

CARL: You may NOT be able to do the trips you used to do with the OLD motor. You may need to think about an Auxilary Fuel Tank .....Just in case. :yes: Somehow I think this new motor wasn't really designed for good fuel mileage. :bonk: John

[RickSE]

...try one... you might like it...you may not:wink:

I tried one, a 28P B1 & didn't like it. So far all the 4-blade props I've run have sucked a$$ on my boat and I keep going back to the Mirage+. The 4-blade props glue the boat to the water and I'd rather run loose and on-top in my water I boat in.

[osur866]

Okay, I'll throw my .02 in here, I run a labbed Bravo 28p with added cup on my 18 with shorty and spin it 5150 rpms and it does not glue the hull to the water, in fact it is looser than my labbed 28p M+ which I turn 5000 rpms. the bravo puts me at 71 gps, with tons of bow lift BTW, and the M+ at 72-73 gps each prop has its place but I must admit I find myself going back to the M+, as for the bravo's not providing enough bow lift add a little cup to them and you will have enough even with the shorty. Both props require the utmost attention at WOT but have been the fastest props on my setup. If your looking for a prop that is more driver friendly IE: WFO with little work consider the TXP a little slower on my setup but I could literaly take my hands off the wheel at WOT. This is just my experience based on testing many props on my setup, as Dwight said what works on one maynot work on yours. Test test and test find what you like and what works for you in your waters that you play in most. Back to eating popcorn and also wondering what kind of steering is going on the back of Carls boat before he starts running in the 80's. Steve

[mrfixxall]

Ya gotta love prop threads. There is just no way of keeping them simple!:) I'm pretty sure the gear swap is in the lower but what do I know.


Annnnnnnnnd stronger:)

[BUIZILLA]

what kind of oil should I run in my 42" Simplicity mower??

if I lab the cutting blades, will I be able to cover another 1/2 acre per day?

:cool!:

[chappy]

what kind of oil should I run in my 42" Simplicity mower??

if I lab the cutting blades, will I be able to cover another 1/2 acre per day?

:cool!:

Oh crap, freight collect,...........................Roadway?:)

[Carl C]

I'm not really worried about fuel economy, it just came to mind when the high slip #s were mentioned. Let's forget about that. No, I'm not powering up for fuel economy.

I like my Merc Racing Bravo 1

I will call Brett

Maybe that should wrap it up lest this goes on forever like other prop threads.:):)

[The Hedgehog]

what kind of oil should I run in my 42" Simplicity mower??

if I lab the cutting blades, will I be able to cover another 1/2 acre per day?

:cool!:

An extra 1/2 acre per day is too fast to take a mower without hydraulic steering not to mention the chance of breaking a blade. Don't you know anything! Oh yeah, be sure to beef up the mower deck, you are heading into uncharted lawns so be carefull:shark:.

Oh yeah, Simplicity seems to think that they know something about lawns but they don't know YOUR lawn. Try before you buy. And if you are and not using aftermarket tires....

[Donziweasel]

what kind of oil should I run in my 42" Simplicity mower??

if I lab the cutting blades, will I be able to cover another 1/2 acre per day?

Maybe a labbed on the mower, definetly not a Cleaver. You want to get the front of the mower over the grass. I just don't think a Cleaver would produce enough "mower lift" for you.:wink:

Now if you do use a labbed blade, when you go for a close mow and really trim that deck down to the ground, it might "mower walk". Just trim the deck up a little and she should calm right down. Be sure to wear a kill switch, getting chucked off your mower at 1 mph while "mower walking" is dangerous as hell.

Now, at a cruise, lets say 1/2 mph, it might "mower porpoise" a little. Just bump her up to 3/4 mph and drive through it.

Now as for oil, use 90 wt gear oil. It is so heavy, it will keep you from hitting the rev limiter on the mower once you throw the labbed blade on.


An extra 1/2 acre per day is too fast to take a mower without hydraulic steering not to mention the chance of breaking a blade. Don't you know anything!

I agree 100%. Any mower running, lets say, 10 hp + and capable of mowing above 3/4 of a mph should have full, twin ram, hydraulic mower steering. Without it, you could seriously hurt yourself, or worse, mow over someone else. Imco Mower Division (IMD) out of Las Vegas makes a good one. Thier number is 800-safe-mow.

Good luck and please post some numbers and pics of the lawn when done.......

[roadtrip se]

I'm shopping for a new deck right now for the JD. The last one has had a few too many encounters with a stump or two.

I'm thinking I'm going to stick with the 48 pitch, instead of the 54, because I need the midrange, and maneuverabilty is a big deal as evidenced by the last deck being bent to crap.

Do you think I should call Brett before committing? Maybe the 54 would be worth the little extra blade work.

Oh BTW, the JD already has hydraulic steering, so we are good there....

[Carl C]

what kind of oil should I run in my 42" Simplicity mower??

if I lab the cutting blades, will I be able to cover another 1/2 acre per day?

:cool!:

Put cow magnets on the fuel line. You'll mow all day on a tank of gas. I swear.

[Donziweasel]

I'm shopping for a new deck right now for the JD. The last one has had a few too many encounters with a stump or two.

I'm thinking I'm going to stick with the 48 pitch, instead of the 54, because I need the midrange, and maneuverabilty is a big deal as evidenced by the last deck being bent to crap.

Do you think I should call Brett before committing? Maybe the 54 would be worth the little extra blade work.

Oh BTW, the JD already has hydraulic steering, so we are good there....

Todd, what kind of speed are you looking for and how close a cut do you want?

What are you getting now?

[Donziweasel]

I am running a Craftsman dual blade with a Briggs and Stratton 22 hp. Last summer I was running full mow in 6th gear, deck full trimmed to the ground, gettin 3 mph (GPS). Hit a stump and tore off a leveling wheel. She just wouldn't turn. Gonna see how Jim does with a labbed blade, might get my mower to turn a little better. Damn things are pricey though, seen some over 50.00.

[BUIZILLA]

I found some rot in the frame so i'm gonna glass that section for better support.... also found a 525cc Kohler with aluminum rods, aluminum head, and a Weber venturi from an MG Midget, I clipped the governor weights and re-weighed them on my gram scale.... and it turns about 7200 now.... i'm thinking a 42" labbed 2 blade with a small cup on the tips, that should give me good leaf and cuttings deflection out the chute, probably a side velocity 20' grass roostertail... I wired the kill switch to some contacts in the seat base so if I get tossed during a wheelie it'll kill the engine quick like... the 2.5" triple chrome exhaust stack should be here soon.... polished 12" 5 spokes with knobby's out back with 8" skinny's for the front... oh, and I got some 30w Spectro high shear oil for the gearcase...

oh yeah, got a hitch with a smoooooooth chrome 2" ball to move the boat around with.... but that required 100# front weights from a 6030 John Deere (so much for aero-dynamics)

oh yeah, I painted it dark gray with silver stripes and named it Mow Boat

[osur866]

Buiz, to finish the pimping you will need the chrome chain steering wheel and some curb feeliers to round it out!

[Carl C]

I found some rot in the frame so i'm gonna glass that section for better support.... also found a 525cc Kohler with aluminum rods, aluminum head, and a Weber venturi from an MG Midget, I clipped the governor weights and re-weighed them on my gram scale.... and it turns about 7200 now.... i'm thinking a 42" labbed 2 blade with a small cup on the tips, that should give me good leaf and cuttings deflection out the chute, probably a side velocity 20' grass roostertail... I wired the kill switch to some contacts in the seat base so if I get tossed during a wheelie it'll kill the engine quick like... the 2.5" triple chrome exhaust stack should be here soon.... polished 12" 5 spokes with knobby's out back with 8" skinny's for the front... oh, and I got some 30w Spectro high shear oil for the gearcase...

oh yeah, got a hitch with a smoooooooth chrome 2" ball to move the boat around with.... but that required 100# front weights from a 6030 John Deere (so much for aero-dynamics)

oh yeah, I painted it dark gray with silver stripes and named it Mow Boat

Take it to Nabber's and call Brett.

[BUIZILLA]

Buiz, to finish the pimping you will need the chrome chain steering wheel and some curb feeliers to round it out! nah, already got a 10" dragster 2 spoke wheel and some Piper Cub front tire covers.. :pimp:

[DonziJon]

It must be CocktaiL Hour. A little HUMOR these days is always GOOD. :yes::yes: John

[BUIZILLA]

Put cow magnets on the fuel line. You'll mow all day on a tank of gas. I swear. I'm one step ahead of ya... to prevent vapor lock I got some special wooden clothes pins made with marine grade southern pine... these are VERY hard to find, so I stole them from my deceased grandmother's roach clip and bong stash... if you've ever owned an MG Midget with metal fuel lines you'd understand the necessity for these as onboard priority

[DonziJon]

I'm one step ahead of ya... to prevent vapor lock I got some special wooden clothes pins made with marine grade southern pine... these are VERY hard to find, so I stole them from my deceased grandmother's roach clip and bong stash... if you've ever owned an MG Midget with metal fuel lines you'd understand the necessity for these as onboard priority

I can't believe this. This IS TRUE. I had a AH Sprite. The clothes pins help to disapate the heat in the steel fuel lines..therby preventing vapor lock. I havn't heard this discussed in 40 years. OMG. :bonk: John

PS: What's a BONG?

[Carl C]

Grandma's turning over in her grave. Who remembers the Scotch Fuel Vaporizer? You need one of those under the carburetor.

[mattyboy]

I'm not really worried about fuel economy, it just came to mind when the high slip #s were mentioned


well you brought it up in the first place ????? :angel:

[SilverBack]

Really?


The XR is changed in the lower and the XZ is changed in the upper. There is only one upper gear ratio for the upper gears on a XR.


Carl....have you called BBLADES? They have Bravo props and you can try a stock one for very little money on the loaner program. When you get the numbers with a stock prop ..... Brett and lab one for you that will be on the money. He can also go up or down 1 pitch size with the same prop if needed.

[BigGrizzly]

That's not what happened. In fall of '07 I ordered a 26p MR Bravo 1 from Teaque. It turned out to be way to small in pitch. I needed to trade it for a 28p. It only had a couple hours of testing time on it. I had to get the trade approved by Bob himself and was charged the $100 plus shipping. Actually I never said that they were out of line even doing that. Of course they won't take back the one I've run for an entire season. I will be listing it for sale here. If I pay $900 for a prop i don't want a used one either. I am just saying that if I guess wrong it will cost me a couple more hundred bucks total. I am thinking going up two numbers in pitch, to a 30p.
Sorry Carl, I just sounded like you wanted to send the 28 back to get it changed. Another point is if you dend one back is that a used prop? If it is then they are out big $$$. What happens the clean it up and put it back in stock if it is not too bad. The problem with labbed props it is hard to fix any dings or scratches.

[roadtrip se]

I found some rot in the frame so i'm gonna glass that section for better support.... also found a 525cc Kohler with aluminum rods, aluminum head, and a Weber venturi from an MG Midget, I clipped the governor weights and re-weighed them on my gram scale.... and it turns about 7200 now.... i'm thinking a 42" labbed 2 blade with a small cup on the tips, that should give me good leaf and cuttings deflection out the chute, probably a side velocity 20' grass roostertail... I wired the kill switch to some contacts in the seat base so if I get tossed during a wheelie it'll kill the engine quick like... the 2.5" triple chrome exhaust stack should be here soon.... polished 12" 5 spokes with knobby's out back with 8" skinny's for the front... oh, and I got some 30w Spectro high shear oil for the gearcase...

oh yeah, got a hitch with a smoooooooth chrome 2" ball to move the boat around with.... but that required 100# front weights from a 6030 John Deere (so much for aero-dynamics)


oh yeah, I painted it dark gray with silver stripes and named it Mow Boat


I nominate this one as a prime candidate for inclusion in Jefe's thread about a bunch of nothing. Hard as I have laughed all week. Thanks Buiz...

[The Hedgehog]

I nominate this one as a prime candidate for inclusion in Jefe's thread about a bunch of nothing. Hard as I have laughed all week. Thanks Buiz...

OMG, I got back from dinner and almost fell out of my chair. That was great. Between Weasel having mower walk and Buiz and the bong, I am on the floor. My wife thinks that something is wrong with me and I did not have to even use some of those pine roach clips.

[Carl C]

The XR is changed in the lower and the XZ is changed in the upper. There is only one upper gear ratio for the upper gears on a XR.


Carl....have you called BBLADES? They have Bravo props and you can try a stock one for very little money on the loaner program. When you get the numbers with a stock prop ..... Brett and lab one for you that will be on the money. He can also go up or down 1 pitch size with the same prop if needed.

That is what I'm going to do. I didn't know he was a dealer for the Bravo 1 props. I have a feeling I'll be able to pull a 30p. We will see.....


Sorry Carl, I just sounded like you wanted to send the 28 back to get it changed. Another point is if you dend one back is that a used prop? If it is then they are out big $$$. What happens the clean it up and put it back in stock if it is not too bad. The problem with labbed props it is hard to fix any dings or scratches.

No problem. It would be nice if I could send back the propI ran for a year;). I know where you are coming from. I have people bringing back DVDs or game discs months after they bought them and after they have used them for frisbees or something and they want their money back:nilly:! At least I got to talk to Bob Teaque on the phone!


OMG, I got back from dinner and almost fell out of my chair. That was great. Between Weasel having mower walk and Buiz and the bong, I am on the floor. My wife thinks that something is wrong with me and I did not have to even use some of those pine roach clips.

My question is answered and my plan of action decided so it's a good thing to let this prop thread die with humor instead of a flame-out. Thanks a lot everybody, no more prop talk or fuel economy talk.:tongue:

[Pismo]

I want to try an old 25" merc cleaver. I loved it on my old 1979 Century. Anyone have one they want to part with?

[BigGrizzly]

I re read this hole thread. First the slip will be higher because of the shorty. Second try what you have first. 3, Brett never headed up merc racing, he worked under Dennis Cavanaugh, When Dennis died, he was temporally left in charge. Then they moved him and he quit. Yes he does push his own props, just like Throttle up. Brete does a good job at labbing the Merc stuff. However, do NOT confused any labbed prop with the stock version. Example, OSR866 has had cup and other stuff done to his bravo1. You have a 525, and you MUST do the steering first because if you don't it is quite possible the props will need to be different. Do not put the cart before the horse. Several push Brett, but some have been burnt doing this. There have been several instances where stock props have been better props then labbed ones. On my boat Brett's mentor sent me a labbed 28 Bravo, for my boat and the stock Turbo1 27, was faster and handled better. There are some that think labbing is great but there are very few that have done any real comparison. Most people make too many changes then try one prop, this is wrong, Every time you change you have to start all over again on props.

[yeller]

It's been said many times before (because it's true) what works on one boat may not work on another.

The same prop in different sizes will also be different, so just because your last prop was great, doesn't mean a larger one will be.

Try everything you can get your hands on, regardless of whether it's supposed to work or not.

A labbed prop would be my last choice, simply because it's the most expensive. I'd try as many stocks ones as I could first, then go to labbed if I wasn't happy with anything else. (Of course, if you can test a labbed one before buying, then go for it.....but we all know no shop is going to allow that).

Good luck. I hope you find the right one. :)

[Carl C]

I don't have access to a bunch of props to test. There is no way my present prop will work. I'm only shooting for 200 more rpm on top but am hoping for a solid 7 mph gain.

Prop threads:nilly::nilly::nilly:

[Air 22]

I don't have access to a bunch of props to test. There is no way my present prop will work. I'm only shooting for 200 more rpm on top but am hoping for a solid 7 mph gain.
Prop threads:nilly::nilly::nilly:

call 920-295-4435

[yeller]

Shipping props isn't very expensive. Zelatore is getting one from Georgia to Cali for $25 and I priced one from TX to northern WA for $15. Based on your location, shipping would be even less because you're closer to the prop guys.

[Carl C]

call 920-295-4435

I will.

[The Hedgehog]

I think that you should try a 5 blade!:popcorn::popcorn:

[Carl C]

AGGGHHH!!:popcorn:
I think we should bring AOTH to Lake St. Clair this year so I can test all those cool props....

[roadtrip se]

I don't have access to a bunch of props to test. There is no way my present prop will work. I'm only shooting for 200 more rpm on top but am hoping for a solid 7 mph gain.

Prop threads:nilly::nilly::nilly:

Second time, I have said it on this thread. Besides being way ahead of yourself thinking about prop testing, the 28 WILL probably work.

Okay, don't buy that I am turning 27-28-29 inch props and I am dam close to your HP AND I have a shortie. FINE, I obviously don't have a clue.

But, let's look at a few others running much more HP than you and pushing it through a shortie.

Catch 22. I believe his sweet spot prop is a 30 inch Hydro with some lab work. HP? 630.

Ted. He is turning 29-30 inch Mirage, Herring, and another little discovery he turned me on to. HP? 725.

So what makes you think a 28 inch Bravo won't run out just fine on your boat? Based on these real world experiences, I predict that it will be fine unless you had a bunch of work done to it, so you could turn it withe the 496.

So, it isn't really what you "think" will work, but what does.... Your boat is not the first shortie boat out there to turn some HP.

And, as said before many times here, things are much, much different at 80+. Steering isn't an option.

[BUIZILLA]

sure glad my canoe takes oars... :cool:

[Carl C]

Second time, I have said it on this thread. Besides being way ahead of yourself thinking about prop testing, the 28 WILL probably work.

Okay, don't buy that I am turning 27-28-29 inch props and I am dam close to your HP AND I have a shortie. FINE, I obviously don't have a clue.

But, let's look at a few others running much more HP than you and pushing it through a shortie.

Catch 22. I believe his sweet spot prop is a 30 inch Hydro with some lab work. HP? 630.

Ted. He is turning 29-30 inch Mirage, Herring, and another little discovery he turned me on to. HP? 725.

So what makes you think a 28 inch Bravo won't run out just fine on your boat? Based on these real world experiences, I predict that it will be fine unless you had a bunch of work done to it, so you could turn it withe the 496.

So, it isn't really what you "think" will work, but what does.... Your boat is not the first shortie boat out there to turn some HP.

And, as said before many times here, things are much, much different at 80+. Steering isn't an option.

A 28p Bravo 1 is equal to a 26p of other makes. Believe it or not. How will this prop still work with 125 more hp?

[Air 22]

sure glad my canoe takes oars... :cool:


:):):) yes but how long are they?...:nilly::nilly::nilly: :angel:

[yeller]

How will this prop still work with 125 more hp?Try it. :yes: It's not like your boat will be unusable with it on. If you don't like it, then start the search for a different one.

[The Hedgehog]

You are way ahead of your self here....Run what ya got and then see...If you really need/ want, a Bravo I , I will sell you my 30 Bravo I, it's perfect condition wise and I dont want it anymore.



On a side not this is Tex posting froms the Hedges house...

Tex

[Carl C]

Thanks Tex, I may be in touch regarding that 30p Bravo 1. Is it a Merc Racing version? I will wait until I test though. I also have a phone # to call. I thought we were going to let this thread die on a humorous note. Buiz, my canoe has a 3.5 hp Nissan outboard. What pitch prop should it run for best top end? I don't have a tach.

[Air 22]

A 28p Bravo 1 is equal to a 26p of other makes. Believe it or not.

Errr...may wanna re-think that one:nilly:

[The Hedgehog]

Errr...may wanna re-think that one:nilly:

I was told it was one off. At least that was what Julie at Throttle up told me:bonk:

[Air 22]

I was told it was one off. At least that was what Julie at Throttle up told me:bonk:

I was told a new Labbed 28P was actually 27.3 from Scott @ Mercury Racing and Brett @ BBlades...I've only delt with them but have heard good things about Matt and Julie so who know's..:bonk:

[Carl C]

Dwight, do you remember when I discussed props with you when I switched to the shorty? I was running a 25p M+ and we decided that I should go with a 4 blade and go up one pitch and that should get me close? Well the 26p Bravo 1 put me all over the rev limiter so after talking with Bob Teaque and others it was determined that the rating of the Bravo 1 props differs from others by 2 pitch #s. Therefore I ordered a 28p Bravo 1 and it was just right. My boat will not pull any other make prop in 28p that I am aware of. Now if I switch to say a Hydromotive then a 28 may be just right with the new motor. I have a feeling that a 30p Bravo 1 is what I'll need. I'll call Brett Monday.

Prop threads...:rolleyes:....I will get it figured out.

[Carl C]

Here it is but lets not argue about it. I will be OK.
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=50607

This was before the shorty. The 28 was too much but was just right with the shorty.

[boxy]

Carl there are a few different formulas for top speed
1 is stand on IT!
2. put the pedal to the metal
3 then there is the old school no replacement for displacement
4 it sucks if your not blown
:tongue:
but this is what you are looking for I think
fill in the 4 blanks and find the 5th
http://www.rbbi.com/folders/prop/propcalc.htm

Fuel Economy !!!!!
I don't care who you are that right there is funny :rlol:
Matty, have i ever formally thanked you for coming back .... Thank you.


what kind of oil should I run in my 42" Simplicity mower??

if I lab the cutting blades, will I be able to cover another 1/2 acre per day?

:cool!:

An extra 1/2 acre per day is too fast to take a mower without hydraulic steering not to mention the chance of breaking a blade. Don't you know anything! Oh yeah, be sure to beef up the mower deck, you are heading into uncharted lawns so be carefull:shark:.
Oh yeah, Simplicity seems to think that they know something about lawns but they don't know YOUR lawn. Try before you buy. And if you are and not using aftermarket tires....

I believe you are both missing the magic multiplier in the formula to determine acres per day per gallon. How many beer can holders are on the fenders, 2 extra holders will reduce the non mowing travel time to the back porch.


I don't have access to a bunch of props to test. There is no way my present prop will work. I'm only shooting for 200 more rpm on top but am hoping for a solid 7 mph gain.

Prop threads:nilly::nilly::nilly:

AGGGHHH!!:popcorn:
I think we should bring AOTH to Lake St. Clair this year so I can test all those cool props....

Carl, I'll give you credit, you havent changed.... Of all the solid advice you've been given, the recurring advice you always ignore is ....show up at an event, you'll be suprised what you might find out there.


Tripper, I set the over/under at 7 before May 24th.

[The Hedgehog]

You are way ahead of your self here....Run what ya got and then see...If you really need/ want, a Bravo I , I will sell you my 30 Bravo I, it's perfect condition wise and I dont want it anymore.
On a side not this is Tex posting froms the Hedges house...
Tex

30? Don't be a wuss! This is the actual Hedgehog. If you want to man-up, I will sell you my 32" Bravo I. I will include my box from Mercury Racing. Hell, I bought it from Brett himself. If you can spin Tex's 30 non labbed, you can have Brett Lab my 32" and you will be good to go! My prop is basically new. Let me know and I will post pics. I think it is a decent all around prop or else I would not have bought it. I am pretty sure that it will be avail once I get through my next round of testing.:popcorn:

The deal is on the table!

[BUIZILLA]

if I put a full cup on my oar's will I get better bite on the rebound stroke?

you guys are making me feel sooooooooooo inferior... :lifeprese:

[roadtrip se]

A 28p Bravo 1 is equal to a 26p of other makes. Believe it or not. How will this prop still work with 125 more hp?

I am aware of the Bravo pitch labeling, but this assumption is not correct.
I have run three different 28 Bravos and I would say the overall effect has been comporable to other four blades identified as 28 pitch.

The simple answer to your question is that you are going to turn this prop more RPMs than you did previously. My sweet spot is about 5400 RPMs.

And oh, pitch isn't the only factor with a shortie, so is diameter and design.

Just because we are gluing more HP in the hull doesn't mean a thing in terms of what is going to work on the prop shaft. My experience, as well as that of many others here, proves it.

[boldts]

AOTH is where it's at because of the Central location to everyone. Are you planning on taking up the lead for Madcow future gatherings? Theres a ton of Michigan Donzi boat owners up there. Get It Going Carl! Then help promote AOTH and buy trailers for all those MI Donzi owners and bring them down to beautiful Lake Cumberland in KY. Beautiful Thoroughbred horses of all kinds there opening their eyes after a long Winters sleep unless they are living in the South already. Thus - Awakening of the Horses :wink:

[mattyboy]

Matty, have i ever formally thanked you for coming back .... Thank you.
Tripper, I set the over/under at 7 before May 24th.


no thanks needed ;) is there some kind of wager I missed out on I need to change my luck i took a bath on game 6 yesterday


Carl since you are thinking ahead what is the plan for all the love letters you're gonna get at lake oakland now that the 525 beast guzzles to much gas for the big lake ;)


git er done and run her then see what she needs :)

[Carl C]

Thanks guys. Can't do AOTH. The boat won't be ready for that and it isn't in the budget. I just might show up next year since then I will have something for you guys! I will not be the fastest but I will not be too far from the front. I do listen to the advice here but you all know how these prop threads get. I've gotten enough info now to make some decisions.

Matty, whoever that clown is on Lake Oakland he's just going to have to get over it. I might put surveillance on my rig. I am not the only one he is harrassing. He's a newby who wants all of the performance boats gone. Mine is not the loudest or fastest. It might be the loudest this year but the STV will always be faster.

[mattyboy]

I gotta say Carl's threads have it all performance, humor,conspiracy theories

I mean where else can you learn about props, fuel economy in hi performance boating and video surveilance ????


prop threads is what's for lunch ;)

[roadtrip se]

on the JD deck pitch, so I guess I'll have to do some testing starting with the 54 and then the 48 pitch.

I am sure my local JD dealer will sign up for that. I wonder if the test decks are painted blue?

What do ya think?

[Carl C]

No conspiracy theory Matty. Lake Oakland has been a Donzi lake for many years. It is why I own one now. I've been boating on this lake since the days of the open engine jets and v-drives. I've always admired the Donzis there. I posted a copy of the guy's last letter threatening to vandalize my tow rig on the boat launch info board along with an advisory that it had been reported to the police and that my rig was being watched. A couple weeks ago I went back to see if it was still there and it is gone but two people wrote notes in my support on the info board. One said simply "you do not own the lake". One was considerably longer. I boat on the big lakes mostly now but this new neighbor will not tell me what I can or cannot do.

Time to end this thread?:)

[The Hedgehog]

on the JD deck pitch, so I guess I'll have to do some testing starting with the 54 and then the 48 pitch.
I am sure my local JD dealer will sign up for that. I wonder if the test decks are painted blue?
What do ya think?

No, unfortunately they are painted yellow like the rest. They have a blue line at the back of the deck. It is a bad place because it tends to get covered up with grass pretty quick.

Unfortunately not many dealers have a test deck program anymore. This messes up the whole try before you buy idea. Some of them ask for dyno numbers and grass types. After some discussion they try to get you to sign up for a custom CNC deck and blade. That is just fine if you have a level yard of fine fescue and no trees. If you throw in some variable conditions and a couple of limb remenants that you don't find and bam, its all over with.

It is too bad that we can't all mow level at high speeds but that is not the way the world works out. It just gets so complicated. I remember when I started out with a reel mower and a small zoysia lawn. Life was so simple them.

That being said, I am moving up to a full tractor with a both a bush hog and a finishing mower. I have a couple of whole entire deck assemblies with blades if you are interested. Drop me a pm and I will bring some of my stuff to AOTH.

Are you still running that 17hp N/A Kohler or have you moved up to the bigger leagues yet? That will have a big impact on the whole configuration needs.

[roadtrip se]

I spent quite a bit of time on the road today, so I was able to give this whole custom deck and labbed blade pitch decision a great amount of contemplation.

Hedge, you were right, my JD dealer did call me, and he tried to over-deck me, admitted to having no test decks available, and simply proceeded to just deck me around. I won't even tell you where I wanted to stick his custom blades once the conversation went down hill. It got ugly.

He is offering something that sounds quite intriquing. It's the "John Deere High Performance Labbed Blade" option that features a mate finish with blue printing and balancing. He claimed that with these high performance blades that I might be able to actually turn a 60 inch pitch deck, but he did hesitate a little when I told him that my V-Twin 20, had not received any performance tuning or structrual support as recomended. So I am skeptical.

Ah screw it, these deck threads are always controversial. I am so confused. My JD dealer is such a deck head, I swear!

[BUIZILLA]

:nilly: :nilly: :nilly: :nilly:

[Donziweasel]

you were right, my JD dealer did call me, and he tried to over-deck me

Glad you backed him down. Remember, get the right deck for YOUR mower. :wink:

The John Deere High Performance Labbed Blade sounds sick as hell......bet you could mow under an inch at 3 mph.

[Just Say N20]

I'm surprised we have gotten this far without any Caddy Shack quotes. . .

[mattyboy]

I'm surprised we have gotten this far without any Caddy Shack quotes. . .


well carl the greenskeeper never believed in power mowers his favorite was the scicle,the pitchfork , the rake and a toro leaf blower well that and some c4


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON-qGVCdVPY

[mattyboy]

I'm surprised we have gotten this far without any Caddy Shack quotes. . .


well carl the greenskeeper never belived in power mowers his favorite was the scicle,the pitchfork and a toro leaf blower well that and some c4


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON-qGVCdVPY

[BigGrizzly]

RT, Honda use to have some stuff made by JD and we made some stuff for JD, so I just happened to be at Honda and was doing the prop thing when Clay walked by and he said that deer had some wind tunnel blades they were testing, he told me it was BS. then I remembered this thread. He told me that get the deck you already had. The bigger deck does not cut as well and scalps easier, and the engine is not strong enough for the bigger deck. This is all I know. Can you believe it wind tunnel designed blades. I can only see it if it were a bagging system and on a green.