fiberglass repairs

[glashole]

I have found a small "crack" in the bottom of a 30 ft 1998 Cruisers while i was removing the bottom paint for a reapplication

the crack was dripping water

I started to sand the crack so as to sand deeper than the crack and was planning on refiberglassing it
- note you can junp in at any time to say i am doing something wrong because I have never done this type of thing before
anyways
I started to sand the area and did the whole crack, however the material underneath seems to be wet as well

this has been repaired by someone before

as i sanded i was able to remove some of the fiberglass layers (approx. 1/8" thick)
I now have an area (will get pictures) that is about 8" x 8" square where I can see a the next layer of material,

the edges of my "hole" i can slide a small prybar underneath the surrounding layers

my question is - is this delamination? how far should I keep sanding and breaking off loose pieces?
the material beneath is wet, should i do something to dry it out?

any help would be appreciated


Shea

[Morgan's Cloud]

The first thing that comes to mind is , What's the access like on the inside of the boat ?

You're going to have to open it up to the degree that all of the faulty/wet/cracked stuff is completely gone and that could mean a hole right through the bottom !

Remember , glass repairs involve a very gently beveled surface on both sides leading into the repair ... You could end up with a much larger area than what it looks like now that the repair will actually involve.

And there must be no wetness anywhere .

Break out the grinder .

Steve

[glashole]

working from the outside in

it is on the very bottom of the boat beneath approx where the motors would start

[Morgan's Cloud]

Can you get to it from the inside as well ... ?

If it's dripping wet and the boat's been out of the water for a while that worries me even more ... Like the possibility that you've got a rotten/cracked stringer thats saturated on the inside of the hull crack ...

It seem as though our resident glass experts are all over at DW's stringer thread ..... :wrench:

[penbroke]

That size/era Cruisers Yachts should have a cored hull both sides and bottom. Most likely balsa. If so, you are just getting started...


Frank

[zelatore]

That size/era Cruisers Yachts should have a cored hull both sides and bottom. Most likely balsa. If so, you are just getting started...
Frank

You beat me to it. As soon as I saw Cruisers I thought Balsa!

I used to be a Cruisers dealer. FWIW, I've never had a bad hull/transom/stringer issue with the boats, but then again we were dealing with late model stuff so take that with a grain of salt.

[penbroke]

You beat me to it. As soon as I saw Cruisers I thought Balsa!
I used to be a Cruisers dealer. FWIW, I've never had a bad hull/transom/stringer issue with the boats, but then again we were dealing with late model stuff so take that with a grain of salt.

I learned a lot from you Don. Hope to learn more as the quest continues...

It seems that the temperature swings and sitting on stands for half the year in this part of the world causes some working of the layers. Once it gets wet and freezes you've got problems.

I would suggest having a surveyor or local 'glass guy take a look before you go much farther. You may be better off to attack it from the inside...


Frank

[gcarter]

Shea, you need to get the book I was suggesting.
It covers this sort of repair in detail, both the glass and the core. Most likely you can repair it yourself if you want to. But it has to be done from the inside out. Period.

[zelatore]

Shea, have you given it the old hammer test to see if you can get an idea how far the wet area extends? It takes a bit of a trained ear, but trust me, if it's really bad you'll know as soon as you start tapping.

[penbroke]

How did this all work out?


Frank

[glashole]

it acually worked out pretty good

i will get some pictures and post them

once i got into it it was a bigger job then i had thought - which is generally the case with me

the boat had a layer of gelcoat, about 1/4" of fiberglass, 1" balsa core, another layer of fiberglass on the inside

I was lucky that the innermost fiberglass was fine and undamaged

i cut a small section of the outer layers out with an angle grinder down to the fiberglass
the balsa inside was very wet from the water penetration

I found that by using a hammer around the damaged area i could tell by ear the wet areas and where they ended

the damage was confined to one side at the very bottom of the boat right next to the center point ahead of the engine bay so i didn't have to worry about reshaping the bottom after or during repair

once i cut out the infected areas i had an area about 12" x 20" and i made it an oval "hole" and angled the sides in to make a slope from the innermost fiberglass to the outer gelcoat

this angles area was about 2" wide (ended up with a small gradual slope from which to repair)

once the hole was prepped i began drying the existing balsa and surrounding material
the surrounding material wasn't damaged but if you pushed reall hard with your finger it would get a little wet

so I used a combination of a heat gun and a microfurnace over a period of time to dry it out)
I would climb under the boat heat it all up real good until it was dry and go back later and do the same thing because this method seemed to wick any moisture out of the stuff I couldn't see and eventually it was dry as a popcorn fart

based on my limited time availability this was basically done over a 3 week period which i don't think hurt anything because between me drying it , it had lots of air drying as well

the microfurnace I hooked up underneath with stryofoam all around it to try and help when i wasn't there but in hind sight i think this might not have really helped at all and was a waste of time

once it was dry i went and got the west marine
West system epoxy and hardener

worked awesome, recommend it to anyone, you get a pump for both the epoxy and the hardener and they squirt exact amounts or both so you have the perfect combo everytime

from there I basically just filled the hole with fiberglass cloth coated in the epoxy building it up until it was even with the original finish

(the other way would be to put a filler in like the original construction but I figured i would be less likely to screw up doing it this way and i didn't want to have to pull the boat later because I didn't do it right)

it was a pain because i had to crawl under the boat everytime with a piece of fiberglass trying not to camtaminate it with anything, put it in the hole smooth it out so as to eliminate air pockets etc. then go up and get anther piece

the good thing is you can add a few layers at a time then let it go hard for the day and do more the next night

I tell you the stuff goes hard as a rock when cured
you literally have to use an angle grinder to do any modifying of it

anyways evenually I had put enough fiberglass in that i could sand it all flat to match the boat contours and covered it with a couple layers of gel

seeing as how this was all under the waterline the exact finish of the gel wasn't as critical as say a red boat in florida but was mainly for sealing up of the fiberglass

once the gel was hard I coated the bottom with a few layers of bottom paint bacause it stays in the water all summer and the repair vanished it\nto the botton of the boat

it looks great and looking back besides time it wasn't a difficult job to tackle (Todd if you are looking for a quote let me know i might be able to fit you in)

I also had good advise from a friend of mine who does this as a living if I ran into something i needed clarification on, but once I was in it was pretty straight forward

It has been in the water now for about a month with no issues

life is good

not sure what this repair would have been at a shop but with all the materials i would probably have about $500-600 tops into the repair

I never got a quote biut would assume a repair like this would be in the neighbourhood of a few thousand dollars and i don;t think they would be out of line



:)

[gcarter]

Shea, good luck w/it, but when you pull it out this fall, expect to see the gell coming off as ester resins won't stick to epoxy permanently.
Your work will stand up as epoxy sticks to ester resins very well.
Also, paints don't do well on epoxy either.
There're some epoxy mfgr's that make primers to paint epoxies.
Try System Three products... like:
http://www.systemthree.com/p_st_yacht_primer.asp

[penbroke]

Thanks for the update. We have looked at and walked away from a couple CY boats because of the potential for this type of problem. Would love to see the photos when you post 'em.


Good luck!
Frank