Spark plugs...

[CHACHI]

as an owner of a powerstroke for the past 10 years, I finally traded for an F-150 with a 5.4 last August.

Any discussions about spark plugs was short lived with me as my second car is also a diesel.

Well, I am listening to spark plug discussions in Ford 5.4 motors and I am not liking what I am hearing. Special procedures, plugs breaking, special tools for removal of left behind parts, possible head removal or cab lifting. Quoted prices of $2,000.00 for a plug change.

This of course in on internert forums, so I am asking, has anyone on the board had issues with spark plug removal in the above mentioned engine or is it all blown out of proportion.

With 8,000 miles on my truck, I am thinking maybe a little plug maintainence now will save alot later. Thoughts?

Ken

[gcarter]

Are the plugs located in the same place on the three valve engines as on the two valve engines?

[CHACHI]

George, my 5.4 is a 3 valve motor. As far as plug location, like the two valve they are located in the head.:wink:

Kidding aside, I couldn't say as far as being located the same as a 2 valve motor.

Ken

[MOP]

Kenny it looks like it may be a year thing, there is a mention of 2004, if not I feel your pain!

Phil

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/ford_spark.html
http://www.denlorstools.com/home/dt1/page_12997/ford_spark_plug_blow_out_problems_how_to_repair.ht ml

[CHACHI]

Kenny it looks like it may be a year thing, there is a mention of 2004, if not I feel your pain!

Phil

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/ford_spark.html
http://www.denlorstools.com/home/dt1/page_12997/ford_spark_plug_blow_out_problems_how_to_repair.ht ml
Phil, from what I have been able to gather for information, the plugs blowing out of the heads issue hs been fixed.

I am looking at the plugs coming apart when it is time to change them.

Ken

[MOP]

I believe you need to take up "Telepathy" might mind power them out! How much worse then twins in a 27 Formula, they both add up to "Monkey" time!

[motorcity]

I have an 05 F250, with the 3 valve 5.4L. I figured I had better change the plugs as soon as possible, after reading all the horror stories. I had 44,000 on my truck. Their is a TSB out their from Ford, and it is best to follow it. Champion has a plug that is a better design than the Motorcrafts. I'm not a big fan of Champions, but in this case I felt it was a better choice. When you put the new plugs in you need to put high temp anti seize on the shell of the new plugs.

What I did prior to changing my plugs, is I ran marvel Mystry oil in the gas for a month, prior to changing them. Every plug came out very easy. They broke loose with a ratchet, and I was able to hand turn them the rest of the way out. Someone else tried my method on a Ford truck forum, and had the same results as I did. Note, this problem is only with the 3 valve that where made between 04 and late 07, I think. Ford made another change to the head design to address this problem.

[BUIZILLA]

What I did prior to changing my plugs, is I ran marvel Mystry oil in the gas for a month, prior to changing them. what dilution ratio did you use? my 5.4 is probably due for some plugs soon...

[BigGrizzly]

Actually the truth is that the plugs blowing out of the holes is tech caused. It is strange that three of my friends had the same issue about 1500 miles after replacing a coil cap. This happened to me too. They wanted to replace the plugs so I let them. Big mistake. When the plug blew out I stuck my inspection scope in and saw the cross threads. Trust me I have seen this many times in motorcycles right after guys change plugs. Being a motorcycle tech I have all the stuff and was able to fix it for the price of the coil and one plug. When I bitch they said they would give me a deal and fix it $1800 because the engine and head would have to be pulled. I checked and all the plugs were too tight and one was not even changed. The problem really is not the engine but the assembly. Finger tight first then wrench. A little anti seize goes along way and a torque wrench properly used helps. We have 87,000 + miles on it and this and the throttle positioning sensor have been the only problems. BTW the old plugs when removed the first time were fine.

[VetteLT193]

what dilution ratio did you use? my 5.4 is probably due for some plugs soon...

I'd like to know too.

looks like a no fun job.

[motorcity]

The blowing out of plugs are on the 2 valve motors, 2003 and older on the F150's and 2004 and older on the F250's. The problem with the plugs seperating is on the 3 valve motors, 2004 to late fall 2007 and 2005 to late 2007 on the F250's. Below is a piture of the plug, the lower shell is crimped on. carbon bulds up between the shell and the cylinder head, thus seizing the shell in the cyl. head. So when you got to change the plug the lower shell seperates and get stuck in the head, sometimes the lowe porcelain breaks also and is in that shell. Ford has a tool to remove the shell, but they are over $200, for the tool. Leslie,and aftermarket tool company make a removal tool also, which is much cheaper and from what I have read works well. Just put a lite coating of the anti seize on the lower shell, to prevent a problem, next time you change the plugs. To much anti seize will cause a mis fire, and you don't want to get it on the electrode of the plug, it will ruein it.

The mint oil in the Marvel Mystry oil removes and softens the carbon,. On the bottle it recomends 4 oz per 10 gallons, I mixed a little bit stronger, for a month prior to changing them.

i went thru alot of anxiety, prior to changing mine, it was a big relief, when mine came out as easy as they did. Some people where being poped for big money to have their heads pulled to get the plugs out. Nothing like paying 2 grand for a tune up.

Link to TSB : http://www.wfservices.biz/TSB%20Ford%20Spark%20Plug%20removal.pdf

[mike o]

I got an 04 fx4 /5.4 with 55k. What is the recommended mileage to change the plugs?

[motorcity]

I'd do the now, the sooner the better. the more you drive it, the more the carbon may build up. From what I have seen the people that have done them with lower miles have had better luck with getting them out, without breaking.

[Tony]

Ken, motorcity's posts are spot on. I, too have been reading a lot about this issue since buying an '07 Screw this past winter. I've got 25k on the truck right now, and at just under 36k (while still under bumper to bumper coverage) I will be having the dealer swap out the plugs as a preventive move. He quoted a charge of $180, and promised if any break they will be on his bill. I'll make sure they use nickel anti-seize on the new plugs, and then I'll probably do the same thing around 75k if I still have the truck.

From what I gather, it is mostly the guys (dealers or individuals) who try to change the plugs for the first time at 60k - 100k miles who are breaking them. TSB or not, many Ford dealers then charge customers for the extra time to extract the pieces, and even go as far as to tell them the heads have to be pulled to get all the pieces out. That is where the $2,000 - $3,000 horror stories come from.

Search this site, there are many, many threads about it;

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forum24/

:beer:

[Tony]

I got an 04 fx4 /5.4 with 55k. What is the recommended mileage to change the plugs?

I'd do it now. If using a dealer, discuss broke plugs with them before leaving your truck, to clear up who is responsible for the possible upcharges. If doing it yourself follow the TSB exactly, plus using the method outlined by motorcity...maybe even in combination with the "soaking" tips described in several threads on this site;

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/forum24/

Good luck, let us know how it turns out!

:beer:

[CHACHI]

Tony, I was told copper never-seize was the hot tip, not nickel.

Ken

[motorcity]

I think the cooper is not High temp and will not survive in a cumpustion chamber. The stainless fuses to the plug shell and will not burn off.

Tony, Are you sure you truck has these plugs? They made a change (again) to the head, to adress this issue. It may have on the TSB, the breakpoint of the change.

[BigGrizzly]

No not copper on an aluminum head. Trust me after 50 years of working with aluminum heads. There is no catastrophic effect but it is not good. Actually my Expedition is a 99, and most of my friends were earlier then 2004, so the problems may be different.

[Tony]

Tony, Are you sure you truck has these plugs? They made a change (again) to the head, to adress this issue. It may have on the TSB, the breakpoint of the change.

My truck has a build date of 08/06. TSB 08-1-9 lists the vehicles and a date, which I have copied below.
I think I pulled the TSB off the site I linked earlier, or I can mail it to anyone who is interested.

ISSUE:
Some 2004-2008 F-150, 2006-2008 Mark LT, 2005-2008 F-Super Duty, Expedition, and Navigator vehicles built with a 5.4L 3-V engine and has an engine build date before 10/9/2007, may experience difficulty with spark plug removal. This may cause damage to the spark plug and leave part of the spark plug in the cylinder head.

:beer:

[motorcity]

Take a look at putting the Champions in. Like I said I not a big fan of them, but I have 7,000 miles on nime and have had no problems so far. You can get a good price on them usually, I bought mine at Rockauto.com. The Motorcrafts run around $18 a plug, I bought my Champions for around $9 ea.

[CHACHI]

It seems that sometime in '08, Ford had a rolling design change of the 3 valve cylinder head.

The re-designed head takes a "more conventional" spark plug, no extended sleeve for the ground electrode.

I may have gotten lucky..

Ken

[CHACHI]

Ford also states that if your spark plug boot is brown, you have the re-designed heads, black boot, old style.

Ken