Air 22 Dwight-Can U Help Me W/525 Install?

[Carl C]

You had posted some links that are already helpful.

[Air 22]

You had posted some links that are already helpful. The ITS alignment tool is not too far from home so I will go get that for $135. Now my main concerns are the motor mounts that I will need and how to beef up the stringers. My stringer spacing is 29" or a bit less (measured between the inner surfaces). If yours is the same can you tell me just what motor mount parts I will need to order? I think you said you used the Dana off-shore mount kit # MM-0038. Looking at pics of that kit I'm not sure how it works. I will address the exhaust when I get to it. I'm hoping my CMI Q&Q adapters will work with the 525's CMIs. How should I beef up the stringers? Should I glass in wood on the outboard side of the stringers to make them super thick? Should I sandwich them with aluminum plates? How would I do that? What did you do? I would appreciate any help. You could call me at 248-330-0048 if that is easier for you. Advice from others who have put blue motors in the newer 22Cs with the wider stringer spacing like mine would be very welcome. It looks like I will take the plunge and put the motor in now.

Carl...I had my Striger and Transom work done at highley recommended fiberglass shop...I would start with asking around your area who does that kind of work..get 5-6 rec's from previous customers. Meet the owner, see the shop and employee's...its may take a little time to find the right place. Your not going to let just anyone work on ur boat. Once you have found a reputable shop start asking questions based on your situation. Call me for the rest...I pm'd you my #....:)

[Carl C]

Carl...I had my Striger and Transom work done at highley recommended fiberglass shop...I would start with asking around your area who does that kind of work..get 5-6 rec's from previous customers. Meet the owner, see the shop and employee's...its may take a little time to find the right place. Your not going to let just anyone work on ur boat. Once you have found a reputable shop start asking questions based on your situation. Call me for the rest...I pm'd you my #....:)

Thanks. I will be calling. I need to do the work myself. Shops are busy this time of year and I don't know of any nearby that I trust. I already have the Donzi factory reinforcing kit installed. I'm thinking of putting one more layer of glass mat across the engine room floor. Not sure what to do with the stringers. Maybe glass some wood against them. I will search some threads here. I will probably call tomorrow. If I'm going to do this job now I must move quickly and get it done in a month or so.

[Air 22]

Carl...dont be under the gun with this project..or your gonna loose alot of sleep and worse possibly make a mistake. Take your time...have a plan, do your research and execute. See the entire picture. Make checklists and USE them...DO NOT RUSH or you could end up with NO boat for the season.

There are many experienced folks on the board...use them..ask questions..
Several points of view are valuable...I went with Poodle's advice and my mechanic's advice for engine mounts etc. There is no one and only way...You decide the way you want to go and proceed.:pimp:

Measure 3 times...then cut!:)

[BlownCrewCab]

I don't know what mounts you have now, But if you can do offshore style Plate mounts with L Brackets on the stringers then you'll Have Allot more integrity by the stringers actually being bolted together, as Opposed to a flexible foot mount. Alignment is harder, but your boat and yourself will love you for it. and it'll take real beating and not even flinch. If I was having stringer problems I wouldn't do it any other way.

[yeller]

Carl, I know it has to be tough looking at that new motor, but I'd suggest you oil the 525 up and store it until fall. Do the stringer work over the winter.

[Mr X]

Carl, I know it has to be tough looking at that new motor, but I'd suggest you oil the 525 up and store it until fall. Do the stringer work over the winter.
I sure do agree........Carl there is a lot to this project, the glass work alone is
a project in itself. There is much more to it than just beefing up the stringers, Take your time, do it right.

[Carl C]

I will not rush it but I think it is better to do this now then to start glass work in my minimally heated garage in November. I will have 6 weeks to complete the install before I start missing out on boating on the Great Lakes. In other words if I'm on the water and have the bugs worked out by the end of May I will be happy :). Then starts prop testing.

I am totally new to IOs. I will have to follow the engine removal instuctions in my Mercruiser manual. I think I figured out how to get the motor out with my cherry picker by removing the trailer wheels and lowering the trailer to the floor.

Before starting I will fix and water test the issue with the 496 which I think is just the heat exchanger. Motor started and ran fine and was filled with anti-freeze so there is no damage to the motor.

Another reason to do this now is to get that 496 and CMIs on the market to help off-set the cost of the 525 which was 20g:eek:. The interest rate on the $ I borrowed will shoot up in December and I'll have to shuffle that debt around.

Dwight, Mr. X, I will do the job right. I'm not going to try to throw the motor in on a week-end. 6 weeks should be plenty of time to do it right.

My main concern now is what to do to the stringers and how to mount the engine.

Blown Crew Cab, here are the links that Dwight posted. Are the mounts in the first link the "off-shore style plate mounts" that you speak of? http://www.donzi.net/forums/showpost.php?p=504458&postcount=38

There is a certain Teal 22C on Lake Oakland that I am going to take utmost pleasure in spanking...:shades::cool!::)

[CJmike]

Carl,
As a guy who has a Donzi apart in pieces as the boating season is fast approaching. My advise would be to wait until next fall. If you would have told me last October that my boat would still apart come mid April I would have looked at you like you were nuts. But after the first 12 million things popped up I only have a few items left to tackle before it might be back in the water. At this point I am hoping I have it done in time for memorial day weekend. I would not rip into a boat now that I wanted to use this summer.
Mike

[Carl C]

Carl,
As a guy who has a Donzi apart in pieces as the boating season is fast approaching. My advise would be to wait until next fall. If you would have told me last October that my boat would still apart come mid April I would have looked at you like you were nuts. But after the first 12 million things popped up I only have a few items left to tackle before it might be back in the water. At this point I am hoping I have it done in time for memorial day weekend. I would not rip into a boat now that I wanted to use this summer.
Mike

I will see. Right now I'm trying to find out just what I am getting into but I think that if I get going now that it will be better to do it this year for the reasons listed above. The motor is pretty much "plug-n-play" since it is a mercruiser engine. The only major obsticles I forsee are with the motor mounts and exhaust. I hope to get lucky on the exhaust. If not I will order the correct tails for a couple more thousand:rolleyes:. Once I get the motor out and engine room stripped I will figure out the reinforcing. I have lots of time since I only work week-ends. I can do this and do it right!

Blown Crew Cab, Could you verify my engine mount question please? Thanks.

[BlownCrewCab]

Those Danas are nice, Thats not exactly what I was talking about though. Let me see if I can dig up a pic or link...BRB

[BlownCrewCab]

http://www.danamarineproducts.com/ProductDetails.cfm?group_id=6&catid=280&productid=2090&CFID=520797&CFTOKEN=33834b3-39dc5ab2-e835-42ae-bdb5-7824a5d66e44

This is close to the plate mount I had in mind, But the one I was thinking of straddled under the motor, Had pads that bolted to your existing motor mount holes in the block and the whole thing mounted to the stringers with L Brackets, which tied the port and Stb stringers together.

[Carl C]

http://www.danamarineproducts.com/ProductDetails.cfm?group_id=6&catid=280&productid=2090&CFID=520797&CFTOKEN=33834b3-39dc5ab2-e835-42ae-bdb5-7824a5d66e44

This is close to the plate mount I had in mind, But the one I was thinking of straddled under the motor, Had pads that bolted to your existing motor mount holes in the block and the whole thing mounted to the stringers with L Brackets, which tied the port and Stb stringers together.

I like that but my stringers are too widely spaced. Now if I glassed 2x4s or 2x6s to the inner side of my stringers I would be within their range and it would solve my stringer strengthening issue. I would need extra long bolts to through bolt the L- brackets. How does that sound to you? Glass in 2x4s or 2x6s ripped down to proper height to the inner side of the stringers, cover with glass cloth and resin and another layer of glass cloth or mat and resin over the whole thing, extending onto the inner transom to help strenthen the stringer to transom joint. Does that sound like a good plan to you?

[Trueser]

I like that but my stringers are too widely spaced. Now if I glassed 2x4s or 2x6s to the inner side of my stringers I would be within their range and it would solve my stringer strengthening issue. I would need extra long bolts to through bolt the L- brackets. How does that sound to you? Glass in 2x4s or 2x6s ripped down to proper height to the inner side of the stringers, cover with glass cloth and resin and another layer of glass cloth or mat and resin over the whole thing, extending onto the inner transom to help strenthen the stringer to transom joint. Does that sound like a good plan to you?

Carl,
Take it back to Tom and get it done rite. Or take it where Air 22 has his done.

I would not attempt this on your own.

[mrfixxall]

http://www.danamarineproducts.com/ProductDetails.cfm?group_id=6&catid=280&productid=2090&CFID=520797&CFTOKEN=33834b3-39dc5ab2-e835-42ae-bdb5-7824a5d66e44

This is close to the plate mount I had in mind, But the one I was thinking of straddled under the motor, Had pads that bolted to your existing motor mount holes in the block and the whole thing mounted to the stringers with L Brackets, which tied the port and Stb stringers together.

Is this the plate your refering to? it bolts to the stock castings on the block.

[Carl C]

Like this. I would need to rip down a 2x6 and bevel the edge to conform to the engine room floor. Of course the diamond plate will be out and everything glassed up. I'm think sealing the boards good with thin resin, then applying a thick coat of resin to the existing stringer and the new board and clamp it in place to cure. Then glass over the stringers extending onto the floor a couple inches and up the transom a couple inches. Then another layer of glass over the entire engine room floor and up the transom several inches.

Trueser, I really want to do this myself. I have not had good experiences letting other people work on my boat.

[BlownCrewCab]

You would have to glass between the new wood and the stringer, This ensures they are totally bonded, Just thick resin would be too britle.

[mrfixxall]

And or mix the resin with some bonding powder to form a paste for stregnth,you will also have to install some outter gussets to keep the stringers from flexing and some inner strakes on the bottom of the hull to stretch the weight through out the bottom of the hull..

[hot shot]

Carl.. as for your 525 project... If you are gonna make a go of it and myself or brian can help you out let us know... sounds like you want to go fast this year... remember it will take a little longer than you expect but you have a lot of time during the week... like air 22 said put together a plan with the help of the regestry and go for it

[Carl C]

You would have to glass between the new wood and the stringer, This ensures they are totally bonded, Just thick resin would be too britle.

OK, got it.


And or mix the resin with some bonding powder to form a paste for stregnth,you will also have to install some outter gussets to keep the stringers from flexing and some inner strakes on the bottom of the hull to stretch the weight through out the bottom of the hull..

Huh??


Carl.. as for your 525 project... If you are gonna make a go of it and myself or brian can help you out let us know... sounds like you want to go fast this year... remember it will take a little longer than you expect but you have a lot of time during the week... like air 22 said put together a plan with the help of the regestry and go for it

Thanks Mick, my tentative plan is described above but with a few tweaks. RT, I'm not going to do a Mickey Mouse job and my hull has been repaired and should be stronger than most out there with the mini-stringer kit installed. The recurring cracks were supposedly cosmetic.

A few more questions though please:
What is the easiest way to remove the bilgecoat or paint or whatever it is to get to bare glass?
Do I need to apply some kind of chemical to the existing glass before new glass and resin will bond to it?
Will just wiping it down with acetone after removing the bilgecoat be sufficient?
Is there a particular kind of resin I should use?
Thanks again for the help, I am glad to help out everyone here too whenever I can.

[BlownCrewCab]

You'll want to get a 4" Angle grinder, Preferably Air, The Glass dust Kills the electric ones pretty quick. Grind off all the Gel or Bilge coat until you get to 100% clean Glass. Then wipe with acetone to remove any oil or contaminants...Have you done Glass before? Have you slept with a woman that doesn't shave her legs? well Get ready, It's Itchy...

[mrfixxall]

A few more questions though please:
What is the easiest way to remove the bilgecoat or paint or whatever it is to get to bare glass?
Do I need to apply some kind of chemical to the existing glass before new glass and resin will bond to it?
Will just wiping it down with acetone after removing the bilgecoat be sufficient?
Is there a particular kind of resin I should use?
Thanks again for the help, I am glad to help out everyone here too whenever I can.

1) you need to remove all the bilage coat,use a grinder with a 24 grit grinding disc.the serface needs to be rough so the new resin and fiberglass can melt together with the existing fiberglass in the hull..the fiberglass resin can get extremely hot whyle cureing.

2)whyle working wirh fiberglass yall serfaces need to bo wet with resin,then applying the fider glass mat the mat needs to be rolled with a fiberglass rollerhttps://www.minicraft.com/retail/standrollers.htm thease rollers are designed to push the fiberglass mat downinto the existing fiberglass and lets the resin float on top of the fiberglass mat..if theirs to much resin between the fiberglass mat you apply and the hull it will seperate and have no stregnth..

3) all seffaces should be wiped down with acitone(you may want to bleach or a good degreecer in the bilage before doing anything..

4) call minicraft and see what they suggest,just make sure the resin doesn't have wax in it. whyle mixing the resin dont over do it with the mek(hardener) or the fiberglass wont have any stregnth and will crack,,forrow the instructions

[RedDog]

The West System web site has many "how-tos" and instruction guides - http://www.westsystem.com/ss/

[mike o]

You'll want to get a 4" Angle grinder, Preferably Air, The Glass dust Kills the electric ones pretty quick. Grind off all the Gel or Bilge coat until you get to 100% clean Glass. Then wipe with acetone to remove any oil or contaminants...Have you done Glass before? Have you slept with a woman that doesn't shave her legs? well Get ready, It's Itchy....:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin: lmao

[Carl C]

I really appreciate all of the help and advice and and special thanks to those that I have talked with on the phone about this. I am taking the plunge. Got a head start today and will put in a good days work on it tomorrow. I have determined that my cherry picker will go high enough if I take the tires off the trailer and set it down on blocks. Once the engine room is emptied I will decide what I will do in there. Look out, there's going to be another playa on the block!

[mike o]

Carl, ya know anybody around my parts that could pick some stuff for ya? I got alot of stuff in the shop, like short ends from all the glass rolls that I cant use. Save ya some $ for ya project....... Just have em bring some Beer.:biggrin:

[Carl C]

Carl, ya know anybody around my parts that could pick some stuff for ya? I got alot of stuff in the shop, like short ends from all the glass rolls that I cant use. Save ya some $ for ya project....... Just have em bring some Beer.:biggrin:

Don't know anyone out there but maybe we can work out something. Glass mat doesn't weigh much! Thanks.

[Donziweasel]

Don't know how much room you need, but instead of removing the tires and blocking the trailer (PITA), how about just letting the air out of them?

Plus, if you get in a pickle and need to take it somewhere, throw some air and off you go......

I am beginning on mine now and am beginning to realize that this is going to be more than just a engine swap. Since I have really no goals to actually run it this year with the twins on the way, I don't care that much.

I guess the point is, is that it will take longer, cost more, and be more of a PITA than you originally think it will. Be ready to not be on the water very soon......

[Carl C]

Don't know how much room you need, but instead of removing the tires and blocking the trailer (PITA), how about just letting the air out of them?

Plus, if you get in a pickle and need to take it somewhere, throw some air and off you go......

I am beginning on mine now and am beginning to realize that this is going to be more than just a engine swap. Since I have really no goals to actually run it this year with the twins on the way, I don't care that much.

I guess the point is, is that it will take longer, cost more, and be more of a PITA than you originally think it will. Be ready to not be on the water very soon......

That might work. I will remeasure. It's going to be close. I really think I can pull this off in 6 weeks. Hope to have the motor out wednesday. I can do all of the engine room prep work next week. The glass work the week after. That leaves a whole month to put in the motor and take care of the unexpecteds.

[Mr X]

Carl,
I thought your origianl plan was more sound, wait a season and then build up the bottom and take your time. this will also be the last season for the warranty if you take a grinder to the bilge and add stringers or gussets and the bottom cracks you will be left holding the bag. you only have a cooling system problem fix it run the boat and get ready for the project when you have months not weeks to do it right
I agree 100%
I just want to say this one more time....... what is the rush?
Who is doing the glass work....? Are you planning on doing it?
Carl, there is a whole lot to doing it the right way.
If I were you, I would take it to a VERY QUALIFED glass shop.
I will not pipe in any more now....

[Sweet Cheekz]

I will not rush it but I think it is better to do this now then to start glass work in my minimally heated garage in November. I will have 6 weeks to complete the install before I start missing out on boating on the Great Lakes. In other words if I'm on the water and have the bugs worked out by the end of May I will be happy :). Then starts prop testing.

I am totally new to IOs. I will have to follow the engine removal instuctions in my Mercruiser manual. I think I figured out how to get the motor out with my cherry picker by removing the trailer wheels and lowering the trailer to the floor.

Before starting I will fix and water test the issue with the 496 which I think is just the heat exchanger. Motor started and ran fine and was filled with anti-freeze so there is no damage to the motor.

Another reason to do this now is to get that 496 and CMIs on the market to help off-set the cost of the 525 which was 20g:eek:. The interest rate on the $ I borrowed will shoot up in December and I'll have to shuffle that debt around.

Dwight, Mr. X, I will do the job right. I'm not going to try to throw the motor in on a week-end. 6 weeks should be plenty of time to do it right.

My main concern now is what to do to the stringers and how to mount the engine.

Blown Crew Cab, here are the links that Dwight posted. Are the mounts in the first link the "off-shore style plate mounts" that you speak of? http://www.donzi.net/forums/showpost.php?p=504458&postcount=38

There is a certain Teal 22C on Lake Oakland that I am going to take utmost pleasure in spanking...:shades::cool!::)

Carl
I have a guy you can call for some help also if you need I just went thru all of this with my 16 over the last three months. Also, do you live on Lake Oakland? I have relatives there and I plan on being over there some this summer Probably July 4th I would love to see your ride when you are done
Parnell

[Carl C]

I agree 100%
I just want to say this one more time....... what is the rush?
Who is doing the glass work....? Are you planning on doing it?
Carl, there is a whole lot to doing it the right way.
If I were you, I would take it to a VERY QUALIFED glass shop.
I will not pipe in any more now....


... listen to Ted ...

I respect both of you highly here and I especially give your input a lot of weight, Mr. X, Ted. I'm getting a lot of feedback on this and PMs telling me not to post about it because of the responses I'll get. Fact is I like posting my projects here and I need and use the advice I get but I can do this. I am not going to run the snot out of this boat. I really won't run it any harder than I do now but I will have more speed now when I want it. It will also be safer because I'll be able to top 80 mph without trying to squeeze every last bit with excessive trim. Most of my cruising will still be 65-70 mph but I will have a more durable engine. I'm not going to run 75 in 2+ footers, I don't do that now. I have done some glass work and I have consulted with very experienced glass guys. The hull has already been beefed up and I can do this. I won't go into details but I believe that if you want something done right you better do it yourself. I've got a $20,000 loan to pay off now and selling my old motor and the CMI kit will off-set half of that. I also have this sweet ass motor sitting in my garage and plenty of time to get the job done right before boating season is in full swing in Michigan. I have got to do this and the naysayers should back off a bit. I have the skills and equipment to do this. If Donzi sold me a defective boat then I guess I will find out but when I am done there is no way this engine swap should cause hull failure. There are plenty of stock hull Donzis running mid 80s out there. Is Donzi building junk now? Again, with due respect I see why some others don't want to discuss their projects on this forum. Lets go back to beating up on the Doc for not having full external hydraulic steering;) I probably won't discuss the project a whole lot more now but I am going ahead with it. I didn't buy this motor to decorate my garage. Peace.

Trueser, your post went up while I was typing. My plans have changed a little and I will be using birch.


Carl
I have a guy you can call for some help also if you need I just went thru all of this with my 16 over the last three months. Also, do you live on Lake Oakland? I have relatives there and I plan on being over there some this summer Probably July 4th I would love to see your ride when you are done
Parnell

Not on, but just north of Lake Oakland. Shoot me a PM before you get here and we'll get out. I boat week-days though - no crowds. The real fun is on the big lakes. We'll go on Lake St. Clair if you're up for it and are here on a week-day. We'll have a good time there and if it is rough we can run the St. Clair or Detroit River.

[Mr X]

Carl,
you know we are just trying to help you...and wish you the best.
Maybe it will look like this when you are finished.

[Dr. Dan]

:angel:Wow! :angel:

Anonymous! :shades:

[BlownCrewCab]

You can do it...If you are Patient, Calculated & Diligent it will be a huge success. Go for it, You could be glassing by friday:biggrin: and with your determination you'll be done 3 weeks or less. Adding the Boards and glass to the stringers isn't that big of Job (do all your grinding outside if you can) Take out the interior and dig in, Enjoy..

[zelatore]

Carl, I don't know how good your cherry picker is, but I didn't even want to try to lift a fully dressed big block over the side of my boat using the Harbor Freight special I've got. When that arm is fully extended it's a bear to roll the thing around and I'm guessing the weight to be about 800 lbs.

Instead, I picked up a gantry and used a chain fall. WAY easier! If you've got a Harbor Freight or Northern Tool near by you can pick one up for about $400. Money well spent. Although it does help if you've got a higher ceiling than I do. :wink:

Here's a couple pics of my motor coming out:
http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=56721

[Donziweasel]

Carl, I don't know how good your cherry picker is, but I didn't even want to try to lift a fully dressed big block over the side of my boat using the Harbor Freight special I've got. When that arm is fully extended it's a bear to roll the thing around and I'm guessing the weight to be about 800 lbs.

Instead, I picked up a gantry and used a chain fall. WAY easier! If you've got a Harbor Freight or Northern Tool near by you can pick one up for about $400. Money well spent. Although it does help if you've got a higher ceiling than I do.

That's why I love my forklift. I don't use it much, but, man, it is nice to have when I do need it.

[mrfixxall]

That's why I love my forklift. I don't use it much, but, man, it is nice to have when I do need it.
Yes indeed john they do come in handy,picking motors out of your boat to stuffing the snomobiles up on a shelf:biggrin:


carl, i wouldnt trust those cherri pickers unless it was like mine but i dont think you have a xtra 4k laying around..you may want to see if you can rent one like the one i have?it goes up 10' or mabe get a tow truck to pull it for you.

[Air 22]

Carl,
you know we are just trying to help you...and wish you the best.
Maybe it will look like this when you are finished.


Ted..awsome eng hatch balancing act:worthy::)...how is that thing staying up...viagra??:kingme: I c the hatch lifting shock laying in the eng compartment floor..:rolleyes:

That 525 looks purrrrdy...:worthy:

[zelatore]

That's why I love my forklift. I don't use it much, but, man, it is nice to have when I do need it.

Oh sure, rub it in Mr. forklift snob.

I do miss having toys like that. Back 'in the day' when I was living with my parents, my father had (still has) a 1957 Case tractor. He made a boom that attached to the 3-point hitch and we used that to pull motors. Don't have something quite free? Don't worry, you'll just lift the whole car...:biggrin.:

Also came in handy since once the motor was free you could just drive it out behind the barn and start degreasing the thing while it was still hanging on the boom.

Carl - if you're going to do it more than once and you have the height, look into a gantry like I got. You might even find one used and save a few bucks. Far easier and safer than a maxed-out cherry picker. Only one word of caution - measure the width of your trailer carefully - mine just fits around the tires.

[roadtrip se]

... listen to Ted ...

Ted called me today.

Guess what I did?

I listened to Ted.

And learned.

And listened some more.

And learned some more.

Ted even answered a couple of my questions.

Thanks Ted.

Call me any time.

I'll listen.

P.S. The black boat was one of the only 525 boats built at the factory.
Lots of carbon weave and other goodies. Hatch struts are excess weight man...

[zelatore]

DW - confess. You didn't get into the transportation business for the money, you did it so you could build a cool shop for your toys under the guise of servicing your buses and trucks, didn't you?

I had a buddy back in Louisville years ago who had a tree service. He built a kick-a$$ shop to service his bucket trucks - 15' ceilings, super-bright lighting, eat-off-it epoxy floors, etc. Strangely, his Alfa spent as much time there as the trucks....

[Dr. Dan]

:cool!:Pardon me if this is too obvious...but why not take the boat to a facility that is professionally equipt to pull it. Get it out of there and then transport boat and pulled motor home.

Put the motor on a roller engine stand that are about $60 to $90 depending on quality. It's going to have to go on a pallet and crated anyway if you ship it anywhere.

I did mine this way and no worries....in fact alot of places are willing to charge a very minimal fee if not free to have you utilize their facities to do this task. Check around - it can even be a Auto Shop...and there must be a ton of them around you.

Just my "Non-Hydraulic Steering Opinion" FWIW. :biggrin.:

Danny :angel:

[Carl C]

Carl,
you know we are just trying to help you...and wish you the best.
Maybe it will look like this when you are finished.

Ted, I think my batteries will be inside the billet batteries boxes.;)

[Mr X]

Ted, I think my batteries will be inside the billet batteries boxes.;)
LOL! Is that what those dang boxes are for? :biggrin.:

[RedDog]

Please post plenty of pictures as you progress

[Carl C]

Getting ready to start working. Here are some pics of my shop. You do NOT see the cases of bud light.....My goal today is to get the engine ready for removal and pressure test the new headers. Tomorrow I can pull the motor and strip the engine room of equipment and work on my plan. I'm going to use my cheapy cherry picker if possible. Exhaust and fluids will be off motor to reduce weight a little. It lifted the new motor out of my truck with no complaints:). Next week I will pull the boat out of the garage, cover the cockpit and grind out the bilge coat and get my supplies ready. Yes, I have air grinders. Should be doing glass work the week after.

[Carl C]

Also, Ted, thanks for posting that pic of the 525 in the 22C. I will be referring to it for some details and by the looks of it I might get lucky with my exhaust:crossfing:.

[Mr X]

Also, Ted, thanks for posting that pic of the 525 in the 22C. I will be referring to it for some details and by the looks of it I might get lucky with my exhaust:crossfing:.
I can email them to you if it would help.

[Pismo]

You could also drop the 525 in now, run it for a season without blasting it (if you can do that) and pull it after the season to do the rest of the stuff.
Then you could still get the cash for the 496 now.
Contrary to what everyone else thinks, I seriously doubt you'll have hull problems unless you beat the hell out of it.

I tend to agree, you are only going up 100-125hp. That's 25%. I doubt Donzi built that boat with that small a tolerance. It will run fine forever with 415-425hp and blow apart with 540hp. I doubt it. It would probably be fine just the way it is and anything you add should make it very solid. The transom and TA take much/most of the load and they are solid. It's a pretty good boat. I've seen relatively more hp in much weaker/lighter boats that have held together fine. I have also seen a few 22s with 500-600hp with no other changes hold up fine as well.

[jvcobra]

Your not crazy for trying to do the engine swap, it looks like a do-able project in 6 weeks (probably less) if you have all week to work on.

You are crazy for taking a loan out for a boat motor :)

[Carl C]

I can email them to you if it would help.

Ted, I think your PM box is full. It would be a huge help if you could e-mail me the pics. The higher the resolution the better. They will help me with small things like throttle cable, shifter bracket, drive oil reservoir etc. Thanks. carlchamberlain@sbcglobal.net

[Mr X]

Pics sent.

[RickSE]

Carl, Here are some differences between my factory 500 boat and yours,

The thickness of my stringers in the back of the boat is 2"; yours are probably 1.25"-1.50". My stringer spread is 28" which should be the same as yours meaning that my additional stringer thickness is on the outboard side of the stringers. I have a fully cored transom which you should also have. My hull has a "special laminate" according to Donzi; from what I was told includes 1-2 additional layers of glass in the hull. My deck is also glassed to the hull, yours is not.

I believe the 28" stringer spread is necessary if you're going to use the Mercury Racing engine cradle but it appears that some of the aftermarket cradles can handle a narrower stringer spread. My stringers also have a raised hump at the cradle mount to bring the angle mount brackets up to the proper mount height for the cradle.

Hope this helps

[Carl C]

Pics sent.

Got the pics, thanks.

Rick, good info. Tells me I'm on the right track. I pretty much know what I'm going to do. I will post pics when I get there.

Doc, it's time for me to learn more about my boat. Such as how to R&R the engine.

k, going back to work.

[Carl C]

What was I thinking? Posting a high performance boating topic on a political board:banghead:. Moderators please finish deleting this mess. Thanks to those who offered help.

[yeller]

The thickness of my stringers in the back of the boat is 2"; yours are probably 1.25"-1.50". My stringer spread is 28" which should be the same as yours meaning that my additional stringer thickness is on the outboard side of the stringers.You've got the thickness right, but I'm sure Carl will find the spread is 29", which would mean the additional thickness on yours would be inboard of the stringers.

[zelatore]

hmmmm.....why do I think something happened between 12:37 and 9:03 that I missed?

[RedDog]

hmmmm.....why do I think something happened between 12:37 and 9:03 that I missed?

I assumed I had missed something as well.

Carl - get to work and put that 525 in. Some of the other posters are right. Mods this season aren't even necessary as long as you use the 525 conservatively (I know, temptation would be tough).

And definitely keep the photos coming

[roadtrip se]

to hit the delete key on all of his posts, not realizing that somebody else might just have the un-delete key....The joys of insomnia....

I do think some of the posts were a little rough, some of which have been deleted, but you ask for advice on a public forum, and you will receive advice on a public forum. Some of it may not be what you like to hear.

I know, I have enjoyed it on occassion as much as the next guy, even when I didn't think I deserved the abuse. Part of the joy of a public chat board. A thick skin is a requirement....

[CHACHI]

Carl, an excellent read.

Ken


http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/fiberglass-paint/205952-what-wood-use-do-i-really-need-marine-grade.html

[Carl C]

Todd, I don't think you saw the posts in question and Scott did me a favor by cleaning up and restoring the thread. I'm sure if I asked him that he would delete it.

The engine is out. It was scary having that much weight so high up on my cheapy cherry picker but it was up to the task.

I pretty much know what I am going to do as far as the glass work but I won't be posting a lot of pics until it is done. It's just too controversial. There are many ways someone can go about this. The next pics will probably come next week when the engine room floor is stripped of equipment and the bilge coat removed.

Here are a few pics. That's my friend Jay posing with the motor. I took that pic real fast so that I could get that engine lowered ASAP! The 496 is one ugly motor.

[mrfixxall]

ya aint it,i like how they put the pcm on top of the motor,heat rises rite? **** design...feel free to call if you have any questions:) and good luck..

[BUIZILLA]

you compare that engine to a Pleasurecraft, Crusader or Volvo marinization and ya gotta wonder why Mother Merc made it so darn busy and complicated looking...

[yeller]

The 496 could be a really good looking motor if Merc would only clean up the mess on top of the intake. The intake itself, is a nice looking unit.

[yeller]

Is there a drain hole through the stringer at the transom? There should be one, but it looks like it was covered during your repair.

[Carl C]

Is there a drain hole through the stringer at the transom? There should be one, but it looks like it was covered during your repair.

There are two drain holes per side. Look closely and you will see them. I think the 496 HO being the top of the line production motor they just didn't put any extra effort or expense to clean up the appearance; Just cover the whole thing with a giant plastic engine cover! The ECU is not in the stock location, or the oil filter. They were relocated as part of the CMI kit. All will be restored to stock and stock aluminum exhaust reinstalled and a new heat exchanger installed before the engine is cleaned up and put up for sale. Then the entire CMI kit will be put back together with all manuals and parts in original boxes and it will be for sale too.

[The Hedgehog]

you compare that engine to a Pleasurecraft, Crusader or Volvo marinization and ya gotta wonder why Mother Merc made it so darn busy and complicated looking...

No Joke. The ole 502 Mag was not exactly an ugly looking motor but when Eddie cleaned up mine, I got a first hand look at how shoddy it was rigged by merc. They seemed to just tied stuff on wherever there was room. The 496 looks like that 2x over.

I just don't know about the ole 496. There is a guy on OSO that built up a 496 with a bunch of Raylar parts and a whipple. He got around 650hp on the dyno. Heck, I think he was running 7 lbs.

I have a friend here that freshened his 502, went with a little stronger internals, kept the iron heads and used a 741 cam. His was Procharged with 6 lbs of boost. He made over 800 hp on the dyno.

[Pismo]

No Joke. The ole 502 Mag was not exactly an ugly looking motor but when Eddie cleaned up mine, I got a first hand look at how shoddy it was rigged by merc. They seemed to just tied stuff on wherever there was room. The 496 looks like that 2x over.
I just don't know aroub the ole 496. There is a guy on OSO that built up a 496 with a bunch of Raylar parts and a whipple. He got around 650hp on the dyno. Heck, I think he was running 7 lbs.
I have a friend here that freshened his 502, went with a little stronger internals, kept the iron heads and used a 741 cam. His was Procharged with 6 lbs of boost. He made over 800 hp on the dyno.

800+hp, that's amazing. Love the 502.

[zelatore]

No Joke. The ole 502 Mag was not exactly an ugly looking motor but when Eddie cleaned up mine, I got a first hand look at how shoddy it was rigged by merc. They seemed to just tied stuff on wherever there was room.


Wow. And I was just b!tching about my 502 rigging over on my procharger thread. I guess I just didn't know how 'good' I had it!

All the same, still makes me miss the good old days of a carb, an alternator, a disty and ignition box, and a couple cooling hoses. Things were certainly simpler-and better looking-back then.

[The Hedgehog]

Wow. And I was just b!tching about my 502 rigging over on my procharger thread. I guess I just didn't know how 'good' I had it!
All the same, still makes me miss the good old days of a carb, an alternator, a disty and ignition box, and a couple cooling hoses. Things were certainly simpler-and better looking-back then.

Oh yours can be cleaned up to look pretty good

[zelatore]

Oh yours can be cleaned up to look pretty good

Another project for another day...

[roadtrip se]

Bill, I need to make sure I get some time down in there to take a look around at Eddie's stuff. Hope you don't mind. Reasearch to be done...

[The Hedgehog]

Bill, I need to make sure I get some time down in there to take a look around at Eddie's stuff. Hope you don't mind. Reasearch to be done...

No problem, jump in anytime and spend as much time as you want. I will let you drive it if you want.

I just got off the phone with Tom (Fishin) and told him the same. I am going to spend some time on his boat checking out all of the updated pimpin effects he is installing.

[Carl C]

Cleaned up the bilge a little today and the glass work from the factory reinforcement kit looks solid:). I bought some glass mat at Boater's World. They never heard of Bilge Coat:rolleyes:. I am trying to get all of the supplies together. How long does the new glass work have to cure before I can apply the bilge coat?

[RickR]

I would use 1708 layered with 1808 and epoxy resin. Make good filets with "Thick" resin and as little cabosil as possible. Then final layer of tape for a clean finish.
http://www.uscomposites.com/products.html
There is a wealth of info here;
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/fiberglass-composite-boat-building/
BTW: Epoxy resin would require primer to use Bilgekote.

[Carl C]

This is the stuff I bought at Boater's World going out of business sale. It's pretty thick. Is this good stuff to use? George?

[Mr X]

I would use 1708 layered with 1808 and epoxy resin. Make good filets with "Thick" resin and as little cabosil as possible. Then final layer of tape for a clean finish.
http://www.uscomposites.com/products.html
There is a wealth of info here;
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/fiberglass-composite-boat-building/
BTW: Epoxy resin would require primer to use Bilgekote.
Very good info......

[Mr X]

This is the stuff I bought at Boater's World going out of business sale. It's pretty thick. Is this good stuff to use? George?
Mat is not going to give you any torsional or sheer strength.

[RickR]

This is the stuff I bought at Boater's World going out of business sale. It's pretty thick. Is this good stuff to use? George?

Not for what you are doing :(

[Mr X]

Carl,
there are a lot of good people here on the board that know what they are talking about. You need to LISTEN AND LEARN THIS BEFORE YOU JUMP INTO SOMETHING THAT WILL NOT WORK.
I would reccomend adding at least 4 additional layers of 1808 S and 1808 X
glass, alternating layers and sandwiching core material after the first 2 layers, either corecell or 3/4 michigan board, using "atprime" and "corebond" following the directions to the letter on both. If possible, vacuum bag the core material. All the pieces need to be pre cut before you start mixing the resin, (vinylester) not polyester.

[Carl C]

I was told that the woven cloth had no strength, that I should use the mat. Hers a pic of the stuff just to make sure we're on the same page. If it's no good I will order the recommended stuff.

[Pismo]

Carl,
there are a lot of good people here on the board that know what they are talking about. You need to LISTEN AND LEARN THIS BEFORE YOU JUMP INTO SOMETHING THAT WILL NOT WORK.
I would reccomend adding at least 4 additional layers of 1808 S and 1808 X
glass, alternating layers and sandwiching core material after the first 2 layers, either corecell or 3/4 michigan board, using "atprime" and "corebond" following the directions to the letter on both. If possible, vacuum bag the core material. All the pieces need to be pre cut before you start mixing the resin, (vinylester) not polyester.

God that looks like awful work to do, all that resin and fumes in that small space. Yikes.

[Carl C]

Everybody tells me something different. I don't have any way to vacuum bag it. I will talk to some people first. Thanks Ted and everyone else.

[Air 22]

Carl...some fans and excellent ventilation might be considered:) Helps the curing process. Have you been around these matarials and fumes for extended times before?:eek:

[RickR]

1708 and 1808 are not "Cloth" they are a stitched bi-axle with matt backing.
What I like about epoxy resin is that is very user friendly for a novice (me), adheres well to polyester, very strong and LOW ODOR.
LISTEN TO TED!

[Carl C]

I do listen to Ted. I don't post this stuff for fun. I will look into ordering the 1708 & 1808. Yes, i will have fans.

[gcarter]

Teds info is very good. But, it all takea a little interpretation. Take it a step at a time.
Find out what all those terms mean.
My own opinion of epoxy versus vinylester is with vinylester you can use stitchmat, where with epoxy, the results aren't as good unless it's the same stitched product w/o the mat. Also, things wet out differently w.epoxy compared to ester resins, w/epoxies, the glass may not lay as well while it kicks, i.e., it may take a lot more work to keep the glass in place while the resin hardens.

Another subject, Hardcrab just sent me a sample of Coosaboard and it looks very interesting as a core. It appears to be very strong in compression.

[roadtrip se]

I'll try again...

Ted and Rick. This is great information. I for one, am listening, taking notes,
and will make sure my boat gets repaired and stengthened properly as a result.

Thank you for the time and patience.

The new politically correct RTSE...:bighug:

[Carl C]

Go Red Wings! Ok, look at pic 4 in post #63 and you will see that my bilge has already been beefed up. With respect, Ted, Is coring really needed for my application? It seems that I would be building it up over the drain holes if I did that. Some people have told me that I don't need to do anything. Is the 1708 & 1808 flexible enough to work over and around my stringers? If so I will order that. If I can get answers to those questions I will talk to a couple people who are helping me and put together my plan. Thanks. I do appreciate the help & info. Remember though, whatever I do it won't be acceptable to everyone. Thanks again. I need to work quick on his. I want to be laying the glass the week after next.

[BUIZILLA]

your in uncharted waters... :stan:

[RedDog]

[QUOTE=BUIZILLA;507758]your in uncharted waters... :stan:[/QUOTE

I wish it were simpler- like a cook book with standard instructions. While I have no need for this at this time I would still like to learn. So far, all of the suggestions are just too discombobulated.

[gcarter]

[quote=BUIZILLA;507758]your in uncharted waters... :stan:[/QUOTE

I wish it were simpler- like a cook book with standard instructions. While I have no need for this at this time I would still like to learn. So far, all of the suggestions are just too discombobulated.

This is why I suggested this book

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?p=507411#post507411

It explains how to do some fairly comlicated things in a very simple manner.

[Mr X]

Some people have told me that I don't need to do anything. .
I hope your kidding.

you know what they say....opinions are like a$$hole$, everybody has one.

Carl, I guess what you do now is up to you. I don't know what else I can say.

[Pismo]

I hope your kidding.
you know what they say....opinions are like a$$hole$, everybody has one.
Carl, I guess what you do now is up to you. I don't know what else I can say.

There are lots of 22s out there running 500-600hp with no hull changes and they hold up fine. Like I said it is a 25% increase, not that much. The tolerance of the hull is not that narrow. Anything you do will help but you probably would be fine doing nothing. The boats are pretty solid as is.

[mike o]

http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=57025&page=6 Actually this Mas low viscosity epoxy on this packaging of mat is pretty user friendly when it comes to wetting out denser fabrics. Mas has raised the bar with epoxies, offering 5 different types of hardeners. If you heat up the resin part and use the slowest hardner... Its as thin as and infusion viscosity resin...... Don't forget to buy some acetone.:biggrin:

[gcarter]

Guys, I like epoxy! It's the best resin around. I've used it for a lot of repairs. It's really strong stuff.
However, it can present some differences when laying up glass. For instance, stitchmat, or any mat, for that matter, has a binding agent in it that holds all the fibers together in the mat, kind of like a starch. Ester resins have an ingredient that dissolves the binding agent in mat, it all bonds together and it becomes all one part.
Epoxies don't have that dissolving ingredient in its chemical makeup, the mat remains coated with the binding agent and as good of a chemical bond does not take place.
Most suppliers can supply the same stitched fabrics w/o the mat. These are the materials to use w/epoxy.
If you do a little research, you can easily add all the proper nouns to this diatribe and see for yourself the truth of it.
A good source is "System Three Epoxy", they not only have a complete catalog on line, but they have their dissertation on everything epoxy, including the material above, called "The Epoxy Book"......imagine that!

[Carl C]

I hope your kidding.

you know what they say....opinions are like a$$hole$, everybody has one.

Carl, I guess what you do now is up to you. I don't know what else I can say.

I won't bring any names into this but, yes, I've gotten responses (PMs) ranging from don't do anything, just drop the motor in and rip to your opposite extreme of coring and vacuum bagging. I respect your word here more than any other. You have built the baddest 22 Classic on earth. You have driven and worked on thousands of Donzi boats. Truth is, and not everyone will like this, but my plan will lie somewhere in the middle. This topic is far more complicated than any oil or prop thread. There are piles of books written on glasswork and boat buiding. There are entire web sites devoted to boat building. I appreciate and am considering every piece of info posted here. I am working with a couple of experienced glass guys whom I won't name to come up with a viable plan to reinforce my stringers and hull. I will incorporate some of the suggestions here but whatever I do there will be people saying that it isn't right or isn't enough. I have done glass work in the past. My first work with glass was over 30 years ago. I did some mostly cosmetic work in the front of my 22 when I opened up the under bow area. I've done other work on fiberglass canoes and boats and NONE of my work ever delaminated or failed. To sum it up I think that between this thread and some folks I will be talking with that enough has been said, lest this thread go on forever like the song chain:)! I purchased some cool scotch pads and sandpaper discs for my air grinder. I will be getting the alignment tool and other supplies Monday and will be grinding out bilgecoat by Monday or Tuesday. I'll git-r-done. Thanks again to everyone. I will post updates but probably not every detail of my glass work......Too controversial!;)

[mattyboy]

I won't bring any names into this but, yes, I've gotten responses (PMs) ranging from don't do anything, just drop the motor in and rip to your opposite extreme of coring and vacuum bagging. I respect your word here more than any other. You have built the baddest 22 Classic on earth. You have driven and worked on thousands of Donzi boats. Truth is, and not everyone will like this, but my plan will lie somewhere in the middle. This topic is far more complicated than any oil or prop thread. There are piles of books written on glasswork and boat buiding. There are entire web sites devoted to boat building. I appreciate and am considering every piece of info posted here. I am working with a couple of experienced glass guys whom I won't name to come up with a viable plan to reinforce my stringers and hull. I will incorporate some of the suggestions here but whatever I do there will be people saying that it isn't right or isn't enough. I have done glass work in the past. My first work with glass was over 30 years ago. I did some mostly cosmetic work in the front of my 22 when I opened up the under bow area. I've done other work on fiberglass canoes and boats and NONE of my work ever delaminated or failed. To sum it up I think that between this thread and some folks I will be talking with that enough has been said, lest this thread go on forever like the song chain:)! I purchased some cool scotch pads and sandpaper discs for my air grinder. I will be getting the alignment tool and other supplies Monday and will be grinding out bilgecoat by Monday or Tuesday. I'll git-r-done. Thanks again to everyone. I will post updates but probably not every detail of my glass work......Too controversial!;)


I am sorry but things have changed here on this forum , this forum was for an OPEN exchange of info on projects like this before it became a political hang out for most . If you are going to post a project on a forum you have to accept differing opinions. If only half of the info is posted the members are not seeing and learning the hole picture which is a dis-service to the forum. This info now matter how controversial may help a member down the road.


now i did not fall off the turnip truck yesterday for this open exchange of ideas and info, personalities need to be put aside and an adult mature and polite touch is needed . a thick skin also needed and no dog pile on the rabbitt .


sorry you can't just post some of it either do it totally off line or post the entire process here.



I have had project torn into, oh well, not everyone agreed with it oh well,
all the I have been doing this for 35 years crowd , doesn't mean they have been doing it right for 35 years or that over those 35 years they have been so set in their ways that they do not learn anything new just rely on what they know. Did people learn or get a good look at what it takes to replace a tank yes they did they also got differing views and all the input to make their own informed decision. would i do it again yes, would i post it again yes have I learned alot of info here and if only half of it was posted I would not have learned so much.



not sure what happened here I guess things got out of hand and a post of mine was deleted, I don't know why if it was out of line I apologize, I thought it was sound advice the old tortoise and the hare thingy but maybe it came out wrong



open discussion with all the info or edited censored puff.
what do we really learn from and what serves the forum members best. I can understand keeping names out of it that is fine.



but maybe I am off base but if most info has past by PM should it not stay that way??

[Carl C]

Matty, not all by PM. Some just don't want to get caught up in this. I won't mention names but with the help of a very knowledgable and friendly board member I have come up with a final plan. I will be using most of the suggestions offered here but will not be able to incorporate coring. I will not be adding any lumber. I will strip all bilge coat and clean with a vacuum and acetone. I will apply a primer/activator such as "at prime". I will add a narrow strip of 2408 glass over the entire length of each stringer followed by a large sheet of 1708 which will overlap at the center of the bilge. I will repeat that whole procedure. I will use vinylester resin which I will mix according to the ambient temperature which will be a minimum of 70*F. I will build a small radius at the stringer to transom joint with polyester putty and glass the stringer to the transom with two layers of the 2408. I will use stock motor mounts to keep vibration down and for easier alignment of the drive.

There you have it. I think this will work very well and will provide ample strength coupled with my Donzi engineered mini stringer system.

:) :) :)

[RickR]

Carl
USComposites' bi-axle 1708/1808 and most all of their glass is epoxy compatible. They specify their matt that is NOT compatible.

To answer your question "Is the 1708 & 1808 flexible enough to work over and around my stringers?"

My outside stringers are 3/4" Douglas fir. I radiused the top with 3/8" quarter round router bit on both sides and did not have any problem with 1708epoxy, BUT, I would not go smaller. I radiused the 1 1/2" inside stringers with 1/2" quarter round.

BTW: The "Other Boat" is a Kevlar hull. I braced the trailer to the floor (with wheels removed) and the hull to the trailer then replaced one stringer at a time to maintain hull integrity.

[Carl C]

Matty, you are right. I will post pics of the work. Again, I plan to do the prep work next week and the glass work the following week. Will post up-dates. I just ordered my supplies from Merton's.

Rick, all of my edges are pretty well rounded, again I will refer to pic 4 in post # 63 I believe. There are several reasons that I am leaving out the coring. If you look at Ted's pics you will see that he totally covered up the drain hole. I assume it was glassed in and a new one bored? Also with the work that has already been done I don't think I need it and also I'm not installing an Ilmor:eek: or running over 100 mph:eek::eek:! Everything else will be pretty much as Ted suggested with a few tweaks.

Thanks again to all here. I need to make some money this week-end and am looking forward to getting back on this project Monday.:kyle:

[roadtrip se]

I find this thread very interesting, as I am getting ready to make several enhancements to my boat in the upcoming year, starting with the structural integrity of the hull.

I have received quite a few phone calls this week to discuss this thread. I suggested that they sift throught the noise, for which I was admittingly partially responsible for, and go ahead and offer their advice. The folks that I talked to offered good advice, in my opinion. Whether or not Carl decides to take it, is up to his better judgement.

As you have stated, I felt that this thread was overtly "cleansed" and I do find it objectionable, because I wonder how many knowledgable folks just said to themselves, "I'll just skip this."

Now a question for you, should I foam in my stringer system or just use glass?

[VetteLT193]

hang in there Carl. it's all worth it in the end.:yes:

[Carl C]

Vette, actually I am enjoying it. Can't wait to get back to work.

Todd, it was bad enough when everyone started telling me that I can't do this myself, that it needs to go to a shop. My experiences with shops have not been good. I CANNOT AND WILL NOT ELABORATE ON THAT! Then someone thought it was really funny that I said I wouldn't be beating the crap out of my boat but that I cruise at 65-70 mph. (I have talked to that person and it is all good) That spurned a series of uncalled for wise cracks that pissed me off and I thought that it was OK to talk about Obama's mama but not about fast boating. Yeah, I cruise 65-70 mph when conditions permit, RPMs around 4,200. I love driving my boat fast but when the waves kick up I slow down accordingly. All is good with the world then. It's not about having a thin skin, it's about being able to talk about high performance boating on a Donzi web site. If cruising 65-70 is unacceptable here then I would need to take all this to other performance boat forums which I don't want to do. BTW, the average age here is a little older than most boating sites and I am 55 myself but I still live for fast boating. I hope this clears some things up.:lifeprese:

[RickSE]

I've said this before, but the keel panel between the stringers on these boats is weak with big power and seems to have too much flex with such power, especially where it meets the stiff stringer system & outboard chine area. I like Ted's solution, which seems like a great solution to add stiffnes to the keel panel for those who don't have the factory kit installed, but what do you do in Carl's case if you already have the factory stiffening kit in place?

More coring over the factory kit or just additional layers of mat? The factory kit adds continuous and segmented layers of 1808 & 3610 into the keel panel along with the stiffeners and does make a difference.

[roadtrip se]

Todd, it was bad enough when everyone started telling me that I can't do this myself, that it needs to go to a shop. My experiences with shops have not been good. I CANNOT AND WILL NOT ELABORATE ON THAT! :

I am one of the ones who suggested you take it to a professional glass shop. McNabb's who has done impressive work on Trueser's and FarmerTex's boats is where mine will most likely go. You were just there. I still feel this way. So do several others here, including Ted who should know, so I am not in the minority.


It's not about having a thin skin, it's about being able to talk about high performance boating on a Donzi web site.

Your skin certainly should be thicker after this one. I do share your feelings for more boats, less politics. At least glass work is not the result of a left wing conspiracy. Good luck.

[mike o]

I'm a registered independent with 30+yrs of working with this stuff.:biggrin: If ya gonna use vinyl ester resin make sure its fresh cause it got a 3 month shelf life and (Maybe) not cure. AND ya have to use a special catalyst for vinylester ...Its different than polyester catalyst. Go to your vet and get some 5cc syringes for mixing. Mr. C is correct, Mat has a binder thats a starch, basically a complex sugar thats sprayed on the mat to get it stick together. The 35% by volume of styrene in poly and vinylester resin dissolves the starch. Cloth or woven fabrics have little or no starch cause the weave holds it together. Thats y they are compatible with epoxy. Carl, Everybody know you can do this But.....You would not believe the abortions Ive seen by 1st timers. Even I get bitten in the a** once or twice a yr. Its tricky stuff and If ya did all the fun (grinding) prep work. Its a easy 2 hr job(glassing) in the right hands. You need 4ish layers of good stuff (insurance) added to a modern hull ...Really wouldn't be that much $ compared to what it can cost if it goes south. Some folks here know this Hell and don't want to see it happen to you. Thats y they say take it to a shop.

[gcarter]

At least glass work is not the result of a left wing conspiracy.

Whoever told you that lied! :biggrin.:

[Carl C]

I'm a registered independent with 30+yrs of working with this stuff.:biggrin: If ya gonna use vinyl ester resin make sure its fresh cause it got a 3 month shelf life and (Maybe) not cure. AND ya have to use a special catalyst for vinylester ...Its different than polyester catalyst. Go to your vet and get some 5cc syringes for mixing. Mr. C is correct, Mat has a binder thats a starch, basically a complex sugar thats sprayed on the mat to get it stick together. The 35% by volume of styrene in poly and vinylester resin dissolves the starch. Cloth or woven fabrics have little or no starch cause the weave holds it together. Thats y they are compatible with epoxy. Carl, Everybody know you can do this But.....You would not believe the abortions Ive seen by 1st timers. Even I get bitten in the a** once or twice a yr. Its tricky stuff and If ya did all the fun (grinding) prep work. Its a easy 2 hr job(glassing) in the right hands. You need 4ish layers of good stuff (insurance) added to a modern hull ...Really wouldn't be that much $ compared to what it can cost if it goes south. Some folks here know this Hell and don't want to see it happen to you. Thats y they say take it to a shop.

I bought a gallon of resin in northern Michigan once just to find he whole thing solidified:eek:. I probably could have found the resin locally but I ordered everything from Merton's who should have a fairly quick turnover of this stuff.

Glass work is definately a conspiracy.

[Carl C]

I want to clarify that I am not bad mouthing Nabber's Shop. Tom McNabb is really a nice guy. That's all I am going to say about my experience with shops. Thanks for understanding. Rain is in the forecast Monday so I will go get the alignment tool and a few supplies that aren't already on order. I will get the diamond plate removed and the cockpit covered and sealed with painter's tape. Should be able to do my grinding outdoors Tuesday.:)

[BigGrizzly]

As for the left wing thing I just heard that Gore and Peloshi are saying that Vinyl ester is helping to cause the Global warming. and it should be banned from the face of the earth.:yes::eek:, just kidding, neither knows what it is.

[gcarter]

Carl, I'm not telling you what to do, but a suggestion.....if you were to get the boat off on a set of dollies ($400.00) you could keep the boat indoors as it is only 22'-6" long and down where the keel is 6" off the floor. The whole experience is a whole lot more enjoyable.
http://www.williamsengineering.net/7m.html

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45107&d=1240152233

[gcarter]

You could get a set of these in about four days.

[BigGrizzly]

George Yes you ARE telling him what to do:yes::yes::yes:. I remember when you got the dollies, you were so happy you even bough lunch and started the late birthday lunch thing. I will say that If I had not built a garage specifically for my Criterion I would have dollies. I am not telli ng either jus strongly suggesting too.

[Carl C]

George, the boat fits fine in the garage, it's the dust that I want to keep outdoors. The glass work will be done indoors with the temperature controlled as we discussed. I used a combination of suggestions here to enable my cherry picker to go high enough to swap engines. I removed the rear trailer wheels, let most of the air out of the front tires and jacked up the tongue.:)

[gcarter]

George Yes you ARE telling him what to do:yes::yes::yes:. I remember when you got the dollies, you were so happy you even bough lunch and started the late birthday lunch thing. I will say that If I had not built a garage specifically for my Criterion I would have dollies. I am not telli ng either jus strongly suggesting too.
Yeah Griz. I remember.
It's kind of like getting your first socket set.
Yeah you can do without, but boy does it make a difference. You ca n move the hull around, shove it up against a wall, do anything you want. The possibilities are endless.

[Carl C]

George, this will be a fairly simple project compared to what some others are into right now. I will just be sanding out the bilge coat and roughening up the glass. The actual glass work should only take a day. How soon after the glass work can I apply the bilge coat?

[gcarter]

George, this will be a fairly simple project compared to what some others are into right now. I will just be sanding out the bilge coat and roughening up the glass. The actual glass work should only take a day. How soon after the glass work can I apply the bilge coat?

Give it a day and sand the new glass before painting.

[gcarter]

I'm pretty sure the set of dollies you were not sure you wanted to borrow is what finally pushed ya over the deep end George ;) :D
I'm forever grateful!:yes: As anyone else would be.

When I was working on Barry's 18, he liked them so much he took them and bought me another set.

[Air 22]

Carl, I'm not telling you what to do, but a suggestion.....if you were to get the boat off on a set of dollies ($400.00) you could keep the boat indoors as it is only 22'-6" long and down where the keel is 6" off the floor. The whole experience is a whole lot more enjoyable.
http://www.williamsengineering.net/7m.html

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45107&d=1240152233


Those are AWSOME...:wink:...how do you get the boat on/off the trailer? Let just enough air out of the trailer tires to clear the dollies?

[gcarter]

It's really easy and I can do it in about 10 minutes. They come w/two sets of legs, long & short, install the long ones.
Lower the tongue jack as far as it will go. Put one dolly under the stern of the boat between the bunks. Raise the trailer tongue jack until rear dolly bunks raise the rear of the hull clear of the trailer bunks. Move a floor jack just aft of a bow trailer crossmember and raise the bow clear of the trailer bunks. Slowly move the trailer forward until the floor jack is close to the next trailer crossmember. Move the jack and repeat until the trailer can be pulled clear. Note: when the bow is closer to the rear of the trailer, set the keel on a 18" long 4 X 4 sitting on a crossmember as the bow will be narrower than the trailer bunks. When the trailer can be pulled clear, roll the forward dolly in place under the keel. You'll need to set the uprights on the inside brackets and in the highest position.
This is one of the best purchases I've ever made and I am grateful to Poodle for lending me his once upon a time.

[mattyboy]

Dolly does have a pair ???
oh a pair of dollies not dolly's pair
sorry

[gcarter]

Dolly does have a pair ???
oh a pair of dollies not dolly's pair
sorry

Matty, that's caused by too much cold weather.:yes::yes::cool!:

[mattyboy]

Matty, that's caused by too much cold weather.:yes::yes::cool!:

George when you have a pair like that it never gets cold, nor do you hear the phone ring at night :yes:

[Air 22]

George when you have a pair like that it never gets cold, nor do you hear the phone ring at night :yes:
How long can u hold ur breath...or do u use a snorkel?:biggrin.: :smileybo:

[Carl C]

It rained all day today so I gathered some supplies I will need and stripped the bilge to the degree needed to do my work. There were a few surprises when I removed the diamond plate. The "diamond plate" is actually molded fiberglass, there are no exposed gussets and the drainage hole behind the motor mounts is high enough that it allows an inch of water to sit directly behind the backing plates. The rear drainage hole in the stringer is at the proper level to allow total drainage. I wonder if I should grind down the drainage hole behind the motor mounts or if doing so might cause a stuctural weak spot? Anyway if it stops raining I will pull the boat outside and grind away the bilge coat tomorrow.

[Donziweasel]

there are no exposed gussets and the drainage hole behind the motor mounts is high enough that it allows an inch of water to sit directly behind the backing plates

Carl, I know my problems are from pooling water. Anywhere it can pool, while you are in there, fix if you plan on owning the boat for a long time.

I will also say, after several conversations with other members, I would fully de-rig your boat, including transom assembly. Inside that alone are bearings that are not going to like the dust. My entire bildge was full of talc like powder from just doing the small area I did. Seals, pumps, rams, electronics, etc....will not like it, and I have been persuaded, can actually damage and or ruin alot of that stuff. You really have no idea how much of that talcum type dust you will have. I have already vacuumed out the hull 3 times for 6 hours worth of work and it needs another round.

I fought about it, but was finally convinced. Replacing a bunch of ruined bildge parts due to dust can make your reinforcement MUCH more expensive.

[Carl C]

Carl, I know my problems are from pooling water. Anywhere it can pool, while you are in there, fix if you plan on owning the boat for a long time.

I will also say, after several conversations with other members, I would fully de-rig your boat, including transom assembly. Inside that alone are bearings that are not going to like the dust. My entire bildge was full of talc like powder from just doing the small area I did. Seals, pumps, rams, electronics, etc....will not like it, and I have been persuaded, can actually damage and or ruin alot of that stuff. You really have no idea how much of that talcum type dust you will have. I have already vacuumed out the hull 3 times for 6 hours worth of work and it needs another round.

I fought about it, but was finally convinced. Replacing a bunch of ruined bildge parts due to dust can make your reinforcement MUCH more expensive.

Well I'm not going to remove everything but I will take what you say to heart and try to at least seal everything at the transom area with plastic and tape. I'll try to keep a fan running the whole time too. Just hoping for a dry day tomorrow. Sorry your project has become so difficult.

[gcarter]

I used a 1 3/8" hole saw which I held parallel with the bottom of the inside of the hull and drilled through the stringers on each side. What I mean is, I sawed a 1 3/8" hole through each stringer that was tangeant to the hull bottom. These are located just in front of the transom center section. I then epoxied some 1" thin wall PVC pipe into the new drain holes. I trimmed them flush to the radius in the stringer bilge joint. They work well, are never allow water into the stringers, and the pipe is invisible.

[Air 22]

It rained all day today so I gathered some supplies I will need and stripped the bilge to the degree needed to do my work. There were a few surprises when I removed the diamond plate. The "diamond plate" is actually molded fiberglass, there are no exposed gussets and the drainage hole behind the motor mounts is high enough that it allows an inch of water to sit directly behind the backing plates. The rear drainage hole in the stringer is at the proper level to allow total drainage. I wonder if I should grind down the drainage hole behind the motor mounts or if doing so might cause a stuctural weak spot? Anyway if it stops raining I will pull the boat outside and grind away the bilge coat tomorrow.


Carl...looks good:)...ur layout is very similar to my 1995 22C . We lowered the drain holes in the new glass work and plumed like gccater mentioned above. I had the same problems. Make sure when u install all ur bolts and screws to seal up the holes w 5200 or similar..you dont want water working its way into anything. Keep up the good work and good luck!:)

[Donziweasel]

Well I'm not going to remove everything but I will take what you say to heart and try to at least seal everything at the transom area with plastic and tape. I'll try to keep a fan running the whole time too.

I would tape well. This stuff is so fine, it will work into anything or anywhere it is not sealed, including several body cavities.......:):bonk:

It also is not limited to just inside the bildge, tape your drive rams, trin tab rams, etc.....on the exterior, **** gets everywhere.

As for the fan, might just blow it all around. I would rather have it just lay down so you can vacuum it. Doesn't hurt to try though.


Sorry your project has become so difficult.

Difficult, yes, but undoable, no. Thanks for the support. I'll get her done, just going to take a while.


You know, just pulled the cover all the way off the Critter today, the first time since December. I forgot how good looking a boat it is. Kinda timeless like the other classics.

[gcarter]

Carl, can you please empty your mail box?
Thanks

[Carl C]

Carl, can you please empty your mail box?
Thanks

kkkk

[Donziweasel]

You have been quiet, how is it going? Problems?

[gold-n-rod]

You have been quiet, how is it going? Problems?

If I had to venture a guess, I'd pick "busy"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :wink:

[Carl C]

Yes, busy. I put in the lower PVC drains and a few little things yesterday. Today I did some grinding. I hope to have all of the prep work done by tomorrow. Will post picks then.

[Carl C]

OMG, grinding like a bilge betch all day and it doesn't look like anything got done:(. Just a few quick pix.

[mrfixxall]

OMG, grinding like a bilge betch all day and it doesn't look like anything got done:(. Just a few quick pix.

Carl, how thick do the stringers frrl from tne access hole? use the little flower on your camers and get a closer pic of where they added the extra supports,just want to what type of mat they used..

[Carl C]

Carl, how thick do the stringers frrl from tne access hole? use the little flower on your camers and get a closer pic of where they added the extra supports,just want to what type of mat they used..

I can't decipher your first question:). Here are some close ups though. The last pic shows the new low pvc drain behind the motor mount.

[RickSE]

...just want to what type of mat they used..

mrfixxall, The "official" procedure calls for multiple layers of 1808 XM Bi-Axial to bed and cover the stiffeners & fillets, then a continuous layer of 3610 CM Bi-Axial from the top of the stringer to the keel per side.

The aft end of the inner lifting strake ends near the front face of the motor mount which is why there are two different fillet sections at the base of the stringer.

[Carl C]

The aft end of the inner lifting strake ends near the front face of the motor mount which is why there are two different fillet sections at the base of the stringer.

Those were a little off on mine. I had to notch out the filets a little so I won't interfere with the seating of the motor mount. I think all of the materials were sent in a kit to the shop.

[LKSD]

Carl the epoxy will work nicely. Take your time & remember the epoxy usually take a little longer to cure, but is WAY stronger. If you didnt get one yet you may want to get yourself a laminating roller to get out the air from under the cloth when resining, being that you wont be vaccum bagging it.. Also make sure if your resin is prone to blushing that you remove the blush with acetone or sanding between coats.. ;) :) Jamie

[Carl C]

Carl the epoxy will work nicely. Take your time & remember the epoxy usually take a little longer to cure, but is WAY stronger. If you didnt get one yet you may want to get yourself a laminating roller to get out the air from under the cloth when resining, being that you wont be vaccum bagging it.. Also make sure if your resin is prone to blushing that you remove the blush with acetone or sanding between coats.. ;) :) Jamie

A roller is coming with the supplies from Merton's. Hopefully it gets here today. I still want to get the glasswork done next week. That means a lot of grinding Monday, which will be my next available day to work on it. I plan to lightly sand the glass between each of the 4 layers.

[LKSD]

Good to hear.. now just take your time so you can enjoy the fruits of your labor later.. :) Jamie

[Carl C]

I got my care package today from Merton's. This glass is so cool. All I've ever seen is the crappy mat and cloth that they sell in stores. Thanks George. I'm really happy with my dealing with Merton's. I hope to be laying glass Tuesday. It looks like the weather will cooperate so I can keep the temperature just over 70* in the garage. I measured the motor mount location on the 525 and it looks like they will line up. Just hoping to get lucky with the exhaust. I know that I apply resin to the hard surface and roll the glass down but if it doesn't become saturated do I brush more resin on top of the glass and continue rolling?

[gcarter]

If you go back and look at my thread, you'll see I clamped it at the top of the stringer to hold it in place. Mark the perimeter of the glass where it lays on the existing glass. Lift up the lower edge and brush resin on the existing glass inside the marks. Also apply resin to the mat side of the stitch mat. Lay the glass back into place and apply more resin on the stranded side of the glass until it's saturated. At this point, remove the spring clamps and lower the upper edge of the stitch mat onto the resined glass you just installed. Apply resin to the upper portion on the mat side and the upper part of the stringers. Lift the upper part of the stitchmat back into place and finish adding resin to the external side of the stitchmat until it's all saturated.
Ya get it?
1) Clamp the stitchmat to the stringer.
2) Lift up lower edge and add resin.
3) Lower the lower edge of the stitchmat into place and finish saturating the lower part of the stitchmat.
4) Remove spring clamps and repeat on the upper part.

There you go....it's easy. :wink:

Ya need to have everything you need there in the bilge with you. Once you start, you can't stop.
As you go, you'll find out how much resin you need for the various pieces.

Did I mention, you need to be ready to do it all on one side before you start???????

[Carl C]

If you go back and look at my thread, you'll see I clamped it at the top of the stringer to hold it in place. Mark the perimeter of the glass where it lays on the existing glass. Lift up the lower edge and brush resin on the existing glass inside the marks. Also apply resin to the mat side of the stitch mat. Lay the glass back into place and apply more resin on the stranded side of the glass until it's saturated. At this point, remove the spring clamps and lower the upper edge of the stitch mat onto the resined glass you just installed. Apply resin to the upper portion on the mat side and the upper part of the stringers. Lift the upper part of the stitchmat back into place and finish adding resin to the external side of the stitchmat until it's all saturated.
Ya get it?
1) Clamp the stitchmat to the stringer.
2) Lift up lower edge and add resin.
3) Lower the lower edge of the stitchmat into place and finish saturating the lower part of the stitchmat.
4) Remove spring clamps and repeat on the upper part.

There you go....it's easy. :wink:

Ya need to have everything you need there in the bilge with you. Once you start, you can't stop.
As you go, you'll find out how much resin you need for the various pieces.

Did I mention, you need to be ready to do it all on one side before you start???????

George, just a couple more things if you can bear with me and I will be ready to do this Tuesday. If you look at my pics on post #142 you will see that I cannot wrap around or clamp onto the stringers. The best thing might be to cut that shelf out but I don't want to go to that extreme. I plan to use steel weights instead of clamps to hold the outer edges of the glass in place while I work. It will wrap over the area I have ground down instead of wrapping around the top of the stringer. I will use ample sharpie markings.

My main question is in regard to your statement of doing all of one side first. I thought the plan was to start on one side and apply a strip of 2408 over the stringer. Let that set up. Then apply a sheet of 1708 over that and extending past the center of the bilge. Then I thought I would move to the other side and do the same. Then back to the first side and repeat with the 2408 followed by a second sheet of 1708 and back again to the second side for the same. this would leave 4 layers over each stringer and 2 layers across the engine room floor, overlapping at the center. There would be 4 layers at the center of the bilge where they overlap. Are you saying that I should do all four layers on one side first, then go to the other side? Should I roughen the surface lightly between layers? Mucho thanks for putting up with me and for all of your help. I've had several glass guys here offer help but I am going with your plan.

[gcarter]

George, just a couple more things if you can bear with me and I will be ready to do this Tuesday. If you look at my pics on post #142 you will see that I cannot wrap around or clamp onto the stringers. The best thing might be to cut that shelf out but I don't want to go to that extreme. I plan to use steel weights instead of clamps to hold the outer edges of the glass in place while I work. It will wrap over the area I have ground down instead of wrapping around the top of the stringer. I will use ample sharpie markings.

My main question is in regard to your statement of doing all of one side first. I thought the plan was to start on one side and apply a strip of 2408 over the stringer. Let that set up. Then apply a sheet of 1708 over that and extending past the center of the bilge. Then I thought I would move to the other side and do the same. Then back to the first side and repeat with the 2408 followed by a second sheet of 1708 and back again to the second side for the same. this would leave 4 layers over each stringer and 2 layers across the engine room floor, overlapping at the center. There would be 4 layers at the center of the bilge where they overlap. Are you saying that I should do all four layers on one side first, then go to the other side? Should I roughen the surface lightly between layers? Mucho thanks for putting up with me and for all of your help. I've had several glass guys here offer help but I am going with your plan.
Carl, when you're doing this work, YOU have to be somewhere to do the work. So it's easier to do one side at a time.
If you have all the pieces cut and marked, you can keep going.......
You only have to sand between coats if you have to stop.
I know other members, and shops have removed the shelves. It's got to be fairly easy to do. This job will be pretty difficult if you don't have control of the position of the glass.
I've not worked on a late model boat so I can't help, but maybe someone in chime in here as to how it's done.

[gcarter]

OTOH, you could do the two first courses on one side, let it set and move on to the other side.
It might be easier on the nerves.
Doing this will give you ample opportunities for an anxiety attack.
At least for me it did.
Another point, there're a lot of ways, or methods, to do glass work correctly. As long as common sense guidelines are followed, you'll get a good result.

[Carl C]

Thanks George, I'll git-r-done. Not cutting out the shelves.

[BUIZILLA]

Thanks George, I'll git-r-done. Not cutting out the shelves. if you don't wrap the stringer completely, then what exactly are you strengthening?

[LKSD]

Just curious, Why did you get polyester resin instead of epoxy?? The epoxy could have also given you a bit longer wet out & working time over the poly , And it would have been stronger.. Nice fabric by the way, that stuff is strong and usually wets out nicely.. J :)

[gcarter]

Just curious, Why did you get polyester resin instead of epoxy?? The epoxy could have also given you a bit longer wet out & working time over the poly , And it would have been stronger.. Nice fabric by the way, that stuff is strong and usually wets out nicely.. J :)
Jamie, Ted suggested the vinylester resin.

[Carl C]

if you don't wrap the stringer completely, then what exactly are you strengthening?

With 4 layers of thick glass along the side of the stringer and extending a few inches onto the bilge floor I will be adding strength to the stringer. I will also be stiffening things up by tying the shelf in with the stringer. Also considering that two of those layers will go across the entire stringer face and bilge floor I think I will be good to go. The problem with a job like this is that everyone would have a different way of going about it. I really think that this will add sufficient strength. Again referring to the pics in post #142 you will see that the engine room floor and stringer to floor joint have already been beefed up considerably.


Just curious, Why did you get polyester resin instead of epoxy?? The epoxy could have also given you a bit longer wet out & working time over the poly , And it would have been stronger.. Nice fabric by the way, that stuff is strong and usually wets out nicely.. J :)

Several glass guys here were kind enough to offer help and talk with me on the phone. As I said above, there are many ways to accomplish my goal. George Carter knows this stuff extremely well and I went with his suggestions. Not wrapping the stringers is my decision though. I received a lot of good advice ranging from coring and vacuum bagging, adding gussets, different materials to use etc. It's kind of like a prop thing. I've developed what I think is a good plan mainly with George's help. Will post more pics next week. I have to say that time is of the essence here but I do not think I will be compromising my goal.

[BUIZILLA]

yeah but didn't the hull cracks underneath exist on the outboard side of the stringer, which is the side your not beefing up for flex?

[Carl C]

yeah but didn't the hull cracks underneath exist on the outboard side of the stringer, which is the side your not beefing up for flex?

It looks like that is true but Donzi's fix supposedly fixed that problem. The recurring cracks were verified as being cosmetic. They were not repaired good enough the first time.

[roadtrip se]

It looks like that is true but Donzi's fix supposedly fixed that problem. The recurring cracks were verified as being cosmetic. They were not repaired good enough the first time.

I would suggest you go back and look at the pictures Ted posted here and sent to you.

Supporting one side of the stringer is supporting just that, ONE side of the stringer.

As for depending on the prescribed Donzi "fix", good luck with that.

[Sweet Cheekz]

Carl
Looks to me like your are making significant strength improvements Well done Good luck
NK

[Carl C]

Guys, I am not going to add weeks to this project at this time. It's just not going to happen. Wish me luck. See you on the water soon! :)

Just a foot note here, further beefing up outboard of the stringers is not completely out of the question in the future. It could be accomplished with the engine in place. Just pull the exhaust off and wrap up the motor. Right now I will stick with my original plan. I need to get on the water. Really;). Doctor's orders, water therapy :).

[yeller]

yeah but didn't the hull cracks underneath exist on the outboard side of the stringer, which is the side your not beefing up for flex?The cracks occur on the outboard side of the (inner) strake, which is also the inboard side of the stringer.

[Donziweasel]

Personally, if you are not going to reinforce the outside stringer, I would at least add a gusset on the outside of the stringer. It is quick and should reinforce the outside some.

I am with Jim, I think just doing one side while you have it all apart and ready to go is coming up a little short.

Good luck.....

[Carl C]

Personally, if you are not going to reinforce the outside stringer, I would at least add a gusset on the outside of the stringer. It is quick and should reinforce the outside some.

I am with Jim, I think just doing one side while you have it all apart and ready to go is coming up a little short.

Good luck.....

It's not that easy. I don't even know what I'd use to grind in those tight spots, then cutting out the boards, grinding twice as much area there and glassing it all back together. Like i said, that could be done next year with the engine in place. With the headers off there is plenty of room to work in that area. Then maybe I can do the polished aluminum diamond plate and billet battery boxes. Right now I have to stick with the original plan. You guys don't understand how important boating is to me and I'm already missing time! It will be Ok for this year and I won't have to repull the motor.

[gcarter]

If you go back and look at Dwight's thread, you'll see there're at least two gussets on each side of the boat under the shelves.
I believe this is going to be a pretty strong reinforcement.
When you combine the one course of Knytex that goes from stringer base to stringer base, a 12" wide piece of Knytex in the stringer base radius, the 24 oz. piece of Knytex that runs from the stringer top to past the C/L, and the 34 oz stitchmat roving that runs form stringer top to stringer top, which are in the Donzi repair, plus the four additional layers of stitchmat Carl is adding, it's a pretty impressive layup schedule.
Now give Carl a break and let him get to work.

[gcarter]

Here's some pictures from Dwight's thread and some of the bilge pictures from before it was modified.
I would assume that Dwights boat had not been modified previously, so these pictures should be representative of Carl's, only Carl's is newer. The only thing I don't like is the plywood that was used for a core. Plywood will rot a lot faster than a solid board.
Any thoughts on these pictures?

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45325&d=1240707059

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45326&d=1240707059

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45327&d=1240707059

[gcarter]

The cracks occur on the outboard side of the (inner) strake, which is also the inboard side of the stringer.
Yeller's commment is pretty revealing, and in this picture from Dwight's boat, you can see the truth of it.
Take a careful look at the line of the hull bottom at the forward bulkhead. You can see where the bottom glass wraps into the strake pocket, and how the inner side of the stringer sits directly on the tangent of the outer edge of the strake pocket and the 24* bottom deadrise.
Also notice there's no voids in the bottom of the stringer. This is a huge improvement over the older boats. I just wish it were'nt plywood in the stringer core.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45327&d=1240707059

[Carl C]

Interesting stuff, it inspired me to go back and really study Dwight's thread.

Dwight, I got the alignment tool from the source you gave me. Also have the CMI tail info ready if needed. I hope to drop in the new motor in two weeks.

Donzi would have saved us a lot of trouble by offering the 525 as an option. I would have paid for it.

[Pismo]

[QUOTE=gcarter;509675] I just wish it were'nt plywood in the stringer core.


I wish it weren't any type of wood in the stringer core. I would rather see something artificial and totally un-rot-able. Moisture always gets in there eventually.

[Air 22]

"Here's some pictures from Dwight's thread and some of the bilge pictures from before it was modified.
I would assume that Dwights boat had not been modified previously, so these pictures should be representative of Carl's, only Carl's is newer."

GC...This was the first modification:smash: to my boat a 1995...so 14yrs young. All the repair work has a 5 yr warranty and was built-up for the HP500EFI. My glass guy assured me on top of the warranty that short of an accident...this repair will out last me...:cool:

I also noticed in Carl's bildge pic's after eng removal how similar these hulls are even 12-14 yrs later...:pimp: Carl, I hope my pic's can help you in your project:beer:

[Air 22]

Interesting stuff, it inspired me to go back and really study Dwight's thread.

Dwight, I got the alignment tool from the source you gave me. Also have the CMI tail info ready if needed. I hope to drop in the new motor in two weeks.

Donzi would have saved us a lot of trouble by offering the 525 as an option. I would have paid for it.


Did Donzi ever offer the 525 in a 22C? I thought only the HP500 and that was it for blue motor's? ?Mr. X ??

[Mr X]

Did Donzi ever offer the 525 in a 22C? I thought only the HP500 and that was it for blue motor's? ?Mr. X ??
Yes, it was an option.

[MDonziM]

Yeller's commment is pretty revealing, and in this picture from Dwight's boat, you can see the truth of it.
Take a careful look at the line of the hull bottom at the forward bulkhead. You can see where the bottom glass wraps into the strake pocket, and how the inner side of the stringer sits directly on the tangent of the outer edge of the strake pocket and the 24* bottom deadrise.
Also notice there's no voids in the bottom of the stringer. This is a huge improvement over the older boats. I just wish it were'nt plywood in the stringer core.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45327&d=1240707059

If I have a 94 22 would you guess I have a void under my stringers or not?

[Carl C]

George, I think the above question is directed at you.

Mr. X, what years was the 525 an option and why was it dropped?

I just noticed something very cool about the new motor; The aluminum heads are cast by Mercury! If all goes well I will finish all the prep work today and start laying glass tomorrow.:crossfing:

[gcarter]

If I have a 94 22 would you guess I have a void under my stringers or not?

It seems the key is whether or not in '94 it had the wider stringer and strake measurements. I know that the '95 models had the wider spacing, but I don't know about '94. I also know that some later boats had some void issues, so the date isn't a foolproof way to determins. So if your '94 has shelves on the outsides of the stringers and the inside stringer measurement is in the neighborhod of 29" then chances are your boat was built like Dwight's.

[olredalert]

-----The heads are not cast by Mercury. They are cast by an outside vendor for Mercurys use or thats what my engine guru tells me. He has reworked several sets........Bill S

[BigGrizzly]

OLd red, Your tech is correct. Merc doesn't do this in house. People are starting to think Merc knows all about high performance engines -IT doesn't. They job all that out. I personally know the person/company who did their 1100 motors. At this time Merc is treading water in the economt and one of the worst off in the industry.

[Carl C]

http://www.zr1netregistry.com/howlt5built.htm

They cast and assemble Corvette engines. They must know a thing or two ;)

Edelbrock does cast the heads on the 525 though.

[MDonziM]

It seems the key is whether or not in '94 it had the wider stringer and strake measurements. I know that the '95 models had the wider spacing, but I don't know about '94. I also know that some later boats had some void issues, so the date isn't a foolproof way to determins. So if your '94 has shelves on the outsides of the stringers and the inside stringer measurement is in the neighborhod of 29" then chances are your boat was built like Dwight's.

Thanks George I'll measure. I do have the shelves. I'm about to do a motor swap and was considering beefing up the mounts to spread the load. Didn't want to get into all the coring etc and was hoping that if the transom and stringers pass the moisture test maby just a little more glass might help. Havn't pulled the motor yet to know exactly what I've got.

Marshall

[Carl C]

The glass work is done. I hope you guys don't pick it apart too much. It was the best I could do. I added a filet of polyester putty at the stern and put in two layers of stitchmat strips there too. Tomorrow I will grind out the drain holes and motor mount bolt holes. Then some clean up and I'm ready for the bilgeKote. Should be able to drop the new motor in next week.

[gcarter]

That Knytex is some of the nicest material there is to work with. It's pretty good Carl.
You can smooth it all a little if you want to before you start painting.

[mike o]

Way to go carl.:)

[boxy]

The glass work is done. I hope you guys don't pick it apart too much. It was the best I could do.

Insert best Sean Connery accent here ....
"Your best? Losers always whine about doing their best. Winners go home and f@&% the Prom Queen." :D :D

You are getting close now Carl, go get the prom queen. good luck with install....

a-pIwA-E-UY

[chappy]

"Carla was the prom queen".

[boxy]

"Carla was the prom queen".

I forgot about that quote ......

Love it.

[mattyboy]

Who is CarlA I thought we were talking about CarlC?????? :tongue:

[BigGrizzly]

I am impressed.:yes:

[Carl C]

I stumbled upon a neat trick for drilling the engine mount holes. You can see them clearly with a light behind them. The drain holes are big enough to find without light. So I drilled 1/2 inch holes and bored them out with the dremel. I washed the new glass down as per Bilgekote instuctions and am giving it time to dry before I paint on the first layer. I want all of the bilge coat on by tomorrow so that it can completely dry by Monday when I resume work rerigging the engine room. Should set in the new motor by Tuesday or Wednesday. I added almost 1/4" of laminate to the stringer side. Less to the entire engine room floor.

[Air 22]

Looking good Carl..:wink:

[Carl C]

Here it is after two coats of bilgekote. It'll get two more coats tomorrow. Then it can harden up good while I work all week-end. Brett @ BBlades is making me one of his magic props:), a 30p Bravo 1. After a good discussion with Brett this is what we decided on. It will be here in 2-3 weeks. I will be looking for 83-84 mph @ 5,200 rpm. For those wondering about my steering, yes full hydraulic dual ram steering is planned. Since I am going top shelf with everything on this boat I will wait and see when I can work this into the budget. It won't be done right away but it will get done soon. For those doubters: Wanna bet $? The importance of hydraulic steering has been stated here about 1,000,000 times. There is no need to repeat it. Thanks. I really busted my ass to stay on schedule.

[gcarter]

Good going Carl!!

[chappy]

Shines real nice there Carl.

Very nice.:pimp:

[jvcobra]

Looks good! That didn't take you long at all.

[Pismo]

What material are those long longitudinal stiffeners under the new glass?

[Carl C]

What material are those long longitudinal stiffeners under the new glass?

Hell if I know! It was all in a kit sent to my glass guy from donzi.

Engine room is re-rigged and I will drop in the new motor tomorrow. Hopefully there won't be too many headaches hooking everything up.

[blackhawk]

Carl I haven't logged on here since last fall and you had a controversial prop thread then. Now this!!! :D

Way to ignore to the "naysayers" and get the job done! You did a great job.

Now get that motor in and go cruise at 70mph! :yes:

[The Hedgehog]

Dang. That was pretty fast

[Carl C]

Carl I haven't logged on here since last fall and you had a controversial prop thread then. Now this!!! :D

Way to ignore to the "naysayers" and get the job done! You did a great job.

Now get that motor in and go cruise at 70mph! :yes:

Yeah, ya gotta love prop threads. Never again!

[blackhawk]

Yeah, ya gotta love prop threads. Never again!

Ahhh...c'mon you should start another prop thread for the 525 power! :popcorn:

[The Hedgehog]

Ahhh...c'mon you should start another prop thread for the 525 power! :popcorn:

No TABS!:popcorn:

[Last Real Texan]

So I am unclear about the steering......will this be installed before running and testing the new prop or after? you have stated that it is in the works ...but when? now , next week, next month , or next season?

Be safe buddy hate to see all that hard work pitch you out and have you go for a swim......

Tex

[gcarter]

hate to see all that hard work pitch you out and have you go for a swim......

Me too.

[Carl C]

Ahhh...c'mon you should start another prop thread for the 525 power! :popcorn:

lol. Look back in Donzi Performance Talk index. I did start one and it turned into the usual cluster f**k! People are pasionate about their props. I addressed the prop and steering issues a few posts back. Getting ready to work on he boat now. The only big question mark is exhaust alignment:crossfing:. (hopefully)

[BUIZILLA]

lol. Look back in Donzi Performance Talk index. I did start one and it turned into the usual cluster f**k! People are pasionate about their props. I addressed the prop and steering issues a few posts back. you know Carl, at this point your just dissing us and making all of us look like fools for replying to you... it constantly turns into a cluster fvck because you still refuse to listen to calm, cool, collected, experienced, and responsible safety responses...

every single topic you start asking for advice goes back to you doing what you want, regardless of the sensible and CORRECT replies, so why bother asking anybody anything anymore?? you do this EVERY SINGLE TIME !!!

case in point, and this will be my FINAL comment to you on this topic.... since you have bought that boat you haven't posted one single pic of yourself observing the most basic safety requirement... wearing a jacket or life vest.... your completely ignorant of your own self regard, and the concerns of others around you.... you'll post a pic of yourself lounging with a beer, dockside at beer joints at every venture, yada yada, but there's not one time you have emphasized, secured, endorsed, or basically proven your in compliance with common safety sense. You go running by yourself in the middle of a BIG frickin lake jumping freighter wakes, WFO with no jacket, no escort, no float plan, nothing, just to take pic's of lighthouse's in the middle of nowhere.... but you damn sure find your camera at every photo op for a beer stop... you borrow and mortgage your a$$ for an engine that exceeds the hp limits of a factory built boat that you've already had hull issues with, you supposedly dress up those issues yourself, and you still ignore common sense steering advice to keep your ass in the seat.

[Carl C]

you know Carl, at this point your just dissing us and making all of us look like fools for replying to you... it constantly turns into a cluster fvck because you still refuse to listen to calm, cool, collected, experienced, and responsible safety responses...

every single topic you start asking for advice goes back to you doing what you want, regardless of the sensible and CORRECT replies, so why bother asking anybody anything anymore?? you do this EVERY SINGLE TIME !!!

case in point, and this will be my FINAL comment to you on this topic.... since you have bought that boat you haven't posted one single pic of yourself observing the most basic safety requirement... wearing a jacket or life vest.... your completely ignorant of your own self regard, and the concerns of others around you.... you'll post a pic of yourself lounging with a beer, dockside at beer joints at every venture, yada yada, but there's not one time you have emphasized, secured, endorsed, or basically proven your in compliance with common safety sense. You go running by yourself in the middle of a BIG frickin lake jumping freighter wakes, WFO with no jacket, no escort, no float plan, nothing, just to take pic's of lighthouse's in the middle of nowhere.... but you damn sure find your camera at every photo op for a beer stop... you borrow and mortgage your a$$ for an engine that exceeds the hp limits of a factory built boat that you've already had hull issues with, you supposedly dress up those issues yourself, and you still ignore common sense steering advice to keep your ass in the seat.

You are entirely wrong. You must have missed my thread about my new lifeline.

You must have missed my posts about never operating my boat while under the influence.

You must have missed my posts about ALWAYS using the tether.

You must have missed my posts about slowing down and taking it easy when turning since that is when a lot of accidents happen.

My HP525 EFI came directly as a result of advice from this site. Don't bother with the 496 you guys said. Go blue you guys said. OK, done.

The shorty came as a direct result of a thread posted here. Most of you guys had good results with them. One came up for sale. I bought it. A direct result of this forum and advice posted here.

BBlades is the best when it come to proips a lot of you guys keep saying. My new Brett labbed prop is on the way. A direct result of advice taken from this site.

Take the boat to Nabber's shop for the warranty work you guys said. OK, done. A direct result of advice posted here.

Get lifelines you guys said. The neoprenes cannot be trusted. OK, I have a new yellow lifeline. Thanks for the advice.

Don't use that crappy Boater's World mat you guys said. Get the good stitchmat, etc. OK, done. Thanks George for walking me through my glass project.

I could go on and on but why bother. You will never get it.

I'm glad to hear this will be your last post on this thread because you do not know what you are talking about.

[gcarter]

You guys need to get off your high n mighty horses and drop it. Carl has admitted he needs steering several times, and will address it next season. Apparently his budget is not as unlimited as yours, so get off his case, or front him the cash for the steering....

AMEN!
Let him be. If he screws the pooch, it's his own pooch he's screwing.

[BigGrizzly]

Everybody has missed it. Carl always says "I will do it later when I have the$$" then he does it next crack out of the box. I am not defending anybody here just saying what I see. Like I will do the engine later when I strengthen the hull. Then he pulls the engine 30 seconds after that and gets it done (Carl, do you ever sleep). I hear the steering comments. I have to admit I had a big motor in my boat for 4 months before the steering thing.:shocking: Carl is not stupid he is, like me,opinionated. Just like everyone else here, he did the motor install first. How many high HP Criterion's have hydraulic steering. How many 70 plus( which seems to be the speed everyone deemed H steering is needed) Classics have hydraulic steering? Everyone needs to remember, IT is the DRIVER not the appointments that make a boat safe. There are some on the board that I will ride rail to rail at 80+ with and others I don't even want to be on the same lake with. Now guys PARK the personal remarks and go back to the tech stuff. Remember, "Know what you know but more importantly know what you don't know".

[Carl C]

MadPoodle, Scott, thank you, I'm sorry you had to clean this up again. Now breakfast and back to work. Ready to set the motor in after breakfast.

[Pismo]

For now to maintain peak stock steering get out your 9/16" wrench and tighten up those nuts on the top of your gimbal ring. Do it every year. I wish I had done it as routine maintenance each fall. Mine got rather loose and has worn the bore of the gimbal ring some. I was able to tighten it up again so the ring and pin move as one again for now but it will need repair someday. If I had done it each fall it never would have gotten loose enough to wear. Mine is a 1996 with about 250 easy hours on it and it still worked itself very loose.

[zelatore]

AMEN!
Let him be. If he screws the pooch, it's his own pooch he's screwing.

Interesting choice of phrase given Carl's avatar....

[BUIZILLA]

do not make me do it.. your starting to sound like a Nancy Grace commercial.... :boggled: :bonk: :yes:

[Donziweasel]

I can make this EVERY other post in this thread folks, do not make me do it..

Even you have to sleep eventually..........:wink::bonk:

Anyway, point taken......

Good luck with the install Carl. Hope she runs like a scalded cat.:)

[Trueser]

Interesting choice of phrase given Carl's avatar....

Agree, Nice George.

[mattyboy]

this project will be just like if the factory put out a 525 classic, or maybe why they never did??
and again we have seen classics here taken way beyond their service envelope but usually it is done in a building block method build test learn,re -build re-test re-learn. and on each cycle the speed is gradualy increased as is the safety routine.


usually in order to evaluate one's progress one needs a benchmark, a given, a known whatever you want to call it to measure your results. in this case there is no benchmark and I hope Carl realizes that this is a new boat looks like he'll have a new prop on it, added power, increased torque so he will have to re-learn the boat and it manners. this may take some time before it can truely be rung out so to speak.




I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed but i bet on a top fuel dragster they may run the motor and check for oil leaks with out the chute but if they are testing tires or general setup that requires a trip down the track the chute goes on first.



the rabbitt and the tortoise
haste makes waste
I can post that every other thread too ;)

[Mr X]

Mattyboy posted: "this project will be just like if the factory put out a 525 classic, or maybe why they never did?? "

They did, and it's not.

[mattyboy]

Ted that really didn't come out right,I can't figure out how to put it in words correctly but if it has been donne by the factory that would be the benchmark or the base for comparision

[gcarter]

Agree, Nice George.
You know, I posted that and immediately went to lunch. And while I was eating lunch I thought about what exactly I had posted.
Must have been one of those Freudian thingies! :nilly::nilly:

[Air 22]

Looks good Carl...hope it all works as planned...:crossfing: :)

[Trueser]

You know, I posted that and immediately went to lunch. And while I was eating lunch I thought about what exactly I had posted.
Must have been one of those Freudian thingies! :nilly::nilly:

Or you had HOT dogs for lunch

CARL, it does look good!

[handfulz28]

this project will be just like if the factory put out a 525 classic,


They did

Even I knew there were factory 525 boats. Would it have been that difficult to call the factory and get someone to confirm what, if anything, was truly different in those builds versus 496 boats?

And can I say "I told you so" as far as not being able to wait. :D Carl, you can say some weird sh!t sometimes, but a lot of these guys are envious of what you've done in the short time you've done it. It's good to see someone else that can pull the trigger when they decide to do something and not talk about it for years...

Now don't go hurting yourself; you're part of the minority there in MI that's still working and spending money. :kingme:

[blackhawk]

Hey Carl you interested in an offshore mount? I have one I need to get rid of.

Hopefully this doesn't start a debate! :nilly:

[mattyboy]

Even I knew there were factory 525 boats. Would it have been that difficult to call the factory and get someone to confirm what, if anything, was truly different in those builds versus 496 boats?

:

as i said before I didn't quite say it right but between ted and handfulz post yes they made them and yes they are different, I have not been in the city in 3 weeks and I fell I am loosing my sarcastic prowess :tongue:



yes there were 525 boats more specifically 22 footers, were any of them classics mass produced or were they special order or limited edition models???


yes there is a difference a major difference from the factory not just "if any" but that has been cover here already and it is coming soon

I spy on the boat in Italy as I look leering, could it be External *****ing


http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2007/Donzi-22-Limited-Edition-2024058/Italy

[chappy]

Even I knew there were factory 525 boats. Would it have been that difficult to call the factory and get someone to confirm what, if anything, was truly different in those builds versus 496 boats?

And can I say "I told you so" as far as not being able to wait. :D Carl, you can say some weird sh!t sometimes, but a lot of these guys are envious of what you've done in the short time you've done it. It's good to see someone else that can pull the trigger when they decide to do something and not talk about it for years...

Now don't go hurting yourself; you're part of the minority there in MI that's still working and spending money. :kingme:

Man, that's a lot of smack.:spongebob:

[Carl C]

:lookaroun: Thanks Scott. Exhaust is so close but I don't think it will work as is. A lot of stuff just bolts up though. I'll figure out what I need tomorrow and call CMI.

This pic is a little clearer:

[smokediver]

I guess steering upgrades are good but what happens when a fitting blows ?
Those real fast F1 boats ... the 140+ mile an hour guys ... use cable steering ... Sure they are light and all but kinda wipes the over whatever mph mark needs hydraulic steering theory off the map ... way to go carl !

[DonziJon]

In spite of what some of you guys say..I LIKE CARL: He's A GOOD EGG ...and I'm Rootin for him. :yes::yes: Like someone said..Carl DOES what other people just TALK about. Ya gotta appreciate that. :cool!: John

PS: CARL: Keep your foot Out Of It until you get the Steering.

[Last Real Texan]

:lookaroun: Thanks Scott. Exhaust is so close but I don't think it will work as is. A lot of stuff just bolts up though. I'll figure out what I need tomorrow and call CMI.

This pic is a little clearer:
Looks great...hard to beat the look of the mighty blue motor...
Nice job

Tex

[Carl C]

I'll be safe guys. I've been driving boats a long time and the steering will come soon. I promise. I won't be doing top speed runs the first time out either.

[CHACHI]

Excellent!!!, go have a brew or two.


Ken

[handfulz28]

Man, that's a lot of smack.:spongebob:

Well FWIW, I didn't mean anything personal against matty or Mr. X. I should probably get the first smack for not suggesting the idea earlier and I have no idea what Mr.X might have shared with Carl outside of this thread. And when I'm in a hurry I forget to use smilies...so here :shocking:

But wow, it doesn't take long for people to take great personal offence when somebody doesn't heed their advice to the letter. And on top of that we've got ten guys giving different advice and everybody gets their panties in a wad. And all this anger is directed at a guy who everybody gives sh!t to because they've never even met him! :confused:

Carl has dropped somewhere around $30k in a matter of weeks (sorry for reminding you Carl!) in this boat plus a lot of effort in personal labor. Kudos to him for asking for input, bouncing ideas around, and then doing it his way. I'm sure we're all waiting on the edge of our chair to hear how it runs. Good or bad, it's all on him. :wrench: :yes: :shades:

[roadtrip se]

I have been cleansed yet again today, and I am still trying to figure out why.

As for this project being something new, no not really. I did a complete re-rig in less than six weeks that included a lot more than an engine change. It has been done many times by many folks here.

I think what has the latest impact and "people's panty's in wad" is the good advice from knowledgable people being described as a "clusterf***" by Carl.

Many have offered good advice in regards to this project. Whether it is taken really doesn't matter. A thank you is all that is needed and you go do your own thing.

Now, let me copy and paste this before....

[Carl C]

Todd, it is the prop threads that always turn into cluster youknowwhats. This thread just got raided by the steering police. I started it to get advice and I got good advice and I followed a lot of it. I was going to let this thread end but Matty suggested that it should stay up since I started it and peeps might want to see how I did this and how it turns out. This is not a how to thread it is a shout out for help thread and I only meant to describe the prop threads as CFs. I like following these projects and I'm following Yeller's and Mick's and Zelatore's threads to see how they turn out. I would have enjoyed reading about how you went about putting the 500 EFI in your boat.

[Dr. Dan]

:spongebob:Looks really good Carl!

Good Luck to you - it will be an entirely different boat. Maybe we can connect in Michigan yet this Summer if time allows.

Be Well

Danny the Observer :beer:
Mercury Racing - House of Blues

[ITTLFLI]

Looks great Carl...:yes:

[hot shot]

mabe we can put together a weekday event up here in mich for those of us that would like to have carl be our trail boss and boat his way and in his water and check it out... he is right about the lak being all tore up on weekends by other boaters... i'm sure we could get a half dozen boats heck mabe a couple of my local cig boys.... mabe the week of madcow or sooner.... any ideas ?

[Carl C]

mabe we can put together a weekday event up here in mich for those of us that would like to have carl be our trail boss and boat his way and in his water and check it out... he is right about the lak being all tore up on weekends by other boaters... i'm sure we could get a half dozen boats heck mabe a couple of my local cig boys.... mabe the week of madcow or sooner.... any ideas ?

Mick, we have the best boating in the world here (IMO) and no events on the big lakes. I'm in for a week-day run anytime. One cool thing is that if the big lakes are acting up it is a blast to run up the St. Clair or Detroit rivers. A lot of folks don't know how beautiful the lower Detroit River is. Just don't stray from the channels!

OK, back to work to figure out my exhaust issue.

[VetteLT193]

Looking awesome. On my next project I'm taking a week's vacation to your house... you manage to squeeze months worth of work into days. :cool:

[undertaker]

Carl...looks great:):)....someday I hope to do the same blue motor thing...:pimp::pimp:


Undertaker:shades:


PS Keep an eye on ebay for hydraulic steering you never know what you might find:wink::wink:

[BigGrizzly]

Carl, it DOES look good, but I would EXPECT nothing less of you:yes: Carl you have your direction follow your heart and your head in just that order and it will work out.

[BUIZILLA]

I do have to admit.... it look's very, very enticing.. :yes:

[Carl C]

I pulled the headers back off to pressure test them. Buiz, I did it like you said. No bubbles:yippie:. Now I'm waiting for a call back from CMI while I work on drive alignment and some other details now that I have more room with the exhaust out of the way. It sounds like I might have to lose the Q&Q:(.

[Pismo]

I pulled the headers back off to pressure test them. Buiz, I did it like you said. No bubbles:yippie:. Now I'm waiting for a call back from CMI while I work on drive alignment and some other details now that I have more room with the exhaust out of the way. It sounds like I might have to lose the Q&Q:(.

That would be a shame to lose the Q&Q. The perfect muffling, totally quiet when needed, totally open when wanted.

[zelatore]

I tell you what, after fighting with the Q&Q during my project, I was about ready to toss the whole mess as well. It's ugly and takes up space making it (more) difficult to work on things.

But then again, I figured as soon as I got rid of it the sound cops would start cracking down. So I left it in and just swear at it regularly.

[mattyboy]

looks good :yes:


I can't believe i am saying this but theres not enough yellow on the motor to tie into the boat :wink:

[chrisc2]

Looks great Carl. Any idea when you will trailer fire it? Any chance of shooting a video when you do? Would love to hear it..:cool!:

[Schaf]

Looks good Carl. I give you a lot of credit for just trying this project. Good Luck!

[Carl C]

Drive is on, wiring is done except that I can't figure out how or where to plug in the trim sender and limit switch. Can't find anywhere for the mechanical water pressure gauge to hook up either. Trim works up and down but only up in trailer position. Trim gauge is pegged up. Tabs work. Engine cranks over. Can't start it until I resolve the exhaust issue. I will shoot video then but it may be a couple of weeks if I have to order custom exh tails.

[mrfixxall]

Drive is on, wiring is done except that I can't figure out how or where to plug in the trim sender and limit switch. Can't find anywhere for the mechanical water pressure gauge to hook up either. Trim works up and down but only up in trailer position. Trim gauge is pegged up. Tabs work. Engine cranks over. Can't start it until I resolve the exhaust issue. I will shoot video then but it may be a couple of weeks if I have to order custom exh tails.

The 525 probably had a hp gimbal housing and their were no trim senders in them,just crome block off pins..your 535 may not have the bullets in the wireing harness to plug them into..you can bypass it for now by pluging the male and female together thats in your boat so your trim works..the guage should work but the limiter stop up wont. if the guage is pegged then you may have the wrong sender going to the wrong wire in the boat.

[Tony]

Keep plugging away, Carl!
I'm betting you will overcome these minor difficulties with your usual tenacity and diligence.

As an added comment, I was impressed with how you handled the "flamethrower" comments. In particular, the way you firmly but politely refuted a particularly agressive post with a series of facts was very tactful. Restrained yet pointed, you refused to rise to the bait.

Good luck with loose ends!


:beer:

[BUIZILLA]

As an added comment, I was impressed with how you handled the "flamethrower" comments. In particular, the way you firmly but politely refuted a particularly agressive post with a series of facts was very tactful. Restrained yet pointed, you refused to rise to the bait. for the record Tony, since YOU brought it up, EVERYTHING in my paragraph is 100% true, point by point, and valid self pictorial proof can be found within the archives, search if you choose, I hope you do... I could care less at this point, i'm wayyyyyyyyyyyy passed that. Carry on..

[Carl C]

Mr. T to the rescue...ya gotta love it.........:wink: