PDA

View Full Version : OK... my first negative issue with Florida....



ChromeGorilla
04-07-2009, 10:22 PM
BOAT INSURANCE is ridonk-u-lous!!:eek:

...putting up speedbumps to badassness right now....:mad:

Lenny
04-08-2009, 12:03 AM
Insurance is for the hull and stuff basically, fire/theft. The rest here is also ridiculous... BUT, we don't have speed limits here... seriously, :yes: but there is a lack of finding any 4 Sterlings in any particular hull, but certainly 2 is not a problem to find ... Liability is the issue here as well with ANYTHING capable of over 50 MPH.

:)


Oh, but catch this (been coming for a long time) at the end of this year you HAVE TO BE CERTIFIED ( not only numbers on the boat) to operate any vessel over 10 hp. Basically understand the lights/buoys,navigation and other vessel traffic to be "Legal" in the water. About a $70 exam here.

soo, if you don't have your "PASSED" Certificate and basically Power Squadron completion, and you are running an aluminum boat with a 15HP Merc, you have a problem.

I actually have NO PROBLEM with Big Brother meddling in this aspect. Gets the idiots and wanna be's off the water.

gcarter
04-08-2009, 01:55 AM
BOAT INSURANCE is ridonk-u-lous!!:eek:

...putting up speedbumps to badassness right now....:mad:

Compared to what?

VetteLT193
04-08-2009, 07:42 AM
Insurance is for the hull and stuff basically, fire/theft. The rest here is also ridiculous... BUT, we don't have speed limits here... seriously, :yes: but there is a lack of finding any 4 Sterlings in any particular hull, but certainly 2 is not a problem to find ... Liability is the issue here as well with ANYTHING capable of over 50 MPH.

:)


Oh, but catch this (been coming for a long time) at the end of this year you HAVE TO BE CERTIFIED ( not only numbers on the boat) to operate any vessel over 10 hp. Basically understand the lights/buoys,navigation and other vessel traffic to be "Legal" in the water. About a $70 exam here.

soo, if you don't have your "PASSED" Certificate and basically Power Squadron completion, and you are running an aluminum boat with a 15HP Merc, you have a problem.

I actually have NO PROBLEM with Big Brother meddling in this aspect. Gets the idiots and wanna be's off the water.

I had not heard about the license / certificate thing. I'm not sure how I missed that considering I work for the Governor :rolleyes:

I have to disagree about it getting idiots off the water though... Licenses, certificates, etc. have never done a thing in that regard. Ever take the concealed weapons permit class? it's a 30 minute class at the gun show, nothing more than a 'step' to get the permit.

heck, even worse is the drivers license test. I think I could have passed it blindfolded. You don't fail for bumping a cone, only knocking one over. Does that mean you are allowed to bump other cars as long as it doesn't dent too bad? hahaha

Cuda
04-08-2009, 08:56 AM
I had not heard about the license / certificate thing. I'm not sure how I missed that considering I work for the Governor :rolleyes:

Uncle Charlie's office knows me well. They should know me better after today. So does US senator Mel Martinez, and my state rep, Pat Patterson. :mad:

Cuda
04-08-2009, 09:02 AM
Back to boating and Florida. First time I called to insure my 22, it was about $1800. I said it can't be right, because so many of you own faster, newer boats. He asked me if they lived in Florida. I guess we still have to pay for the hurricanes that came through in 2004. :kaioken:
I got liablitly only.

Cuda
04-08-2009, 09:04 AM
I actually have NO PROBLEM with Big Brother meddling in this aspect. Gets the idiots and wanna be's off the water.
No course, or license on earth will get that done. You can't cure stupid.:confused:

ChromeGorilla
04-08-2009, 09:49 AM
George, compareed to insurance costs for the same boat in other states. Ginormous difference.

The 22 was/is no problem to insure. Cost is very reasonable to me...

I am currently shopping for insurance on a different boat.... slightly longer and slightly more power....:biggrin.::yes:

roadtrip se
04-08-2009, 10:03 AM
Maybe it wasn't when the last huricanne happened, but how many have happened. Kind of skews the statistical risk, ya think?
Still no excuse to rape and pillage though.

All year use versus extended lay-up, and inland versus coastal, also makes a big difference between north and south.

And Chrome, the 22 is always a bargin compared to the bigger performance stuff. You start talking to folks like Total Dollar and Markel, and you are talking about increments of thousands, not hundreds. Been there. Part of the ownership experience, even with the bigger singles that are slower than our little, old slow 22's. Not trying to burst your bubble. Good luck with the dream!

And Len, what's all of this talk about speed limits? Not an issue where I do my boating. As for giving Big Brother another excuse to stop me and check for a "certification", you keep that in CA okay?

VetteLT193
04-08-2009, 10:10 AM
Uncle Charlie's office knows me well. They should know me better after today. So does US senator Mel Martinez, and my state rep, Pat Patterson. :mad:

I'm sure he knows you better than me. LOL.

Legislature has more power than the Gov. does in most cases so I'd hammer both of your representatives.... HARD.

Back on insurance... I'm insured on the Minx with full coverage ($15,000 for the boat) for about $400 per year.

handfulz28
04-08-2009, 10:19 AM
I had not heard about the license / certificate thing. I'm not sure how I missed that considering I work for the Governor :rolleyes:

Lenny's talking about Canada I think, not FL. I'd support a "Boat" endorsement just like our Motorcycle endorsement. No, nothing will cure stupid but it could be a way to force new boaters to practice before just going out and ramming into other boaters. Could bring some needed jobs into the economy also in the way of schools and "trainers".

gcarter
04-08-2009, 10:20 AM
I insured the TR the first year I had it (but not currently) for $20K and was about $600.

handfulz28
04-08-2009, 10:22 AM
Chrome, who are you shopping for insurance? I had Allstate and they were cheap, but I got lucky since my dad was already with them. I've heard Boat US every once in a while throws out a great deal. State Farm was totally useless from a rate perspective. Progressive is supposedly competitive and GEICO is supposed to be playing the game now I think?

zelatore
04-08-2009, 10:23 AM
And Len, what's all of this talk about speed limits? Not an issue where I do my boating. As for giving Big Brother another excuse to stop me and check for a "certification", you keep that in CA okay?

Hey now - you be careful about what 'CA' you're talking about. You're going to give Arnie and your buddy Gavin and the rest ideas!

Actually, I'm quite surprised California doesn't have some sort of certification for boaters. I'd be all for if it would actually raise the basic level of seamanship, but I think we all know in reality all it would do is cost money, add buracracy, and make a big hassle for everybody.

ChromeGorilla
04-08-2009, 10:24 AM
Like I said... the 22 is no big deal.... was $400/yr for $50K coverage in GA....
$850 in FL... no biggie....

But appearantly add 45 miles south, 16' of fiberglass, and a lil bit o' HP and holy shizzle...lol:wink:

It may be a $hit sandwich that I'll have to bite.... granted with a big ol smile though... we'll see....

VetteLT193
04-08-2009, 10:30 AM
Lenny's talking about Canada I think, not FL. I'd support a "Boat" endorsement just like our Motorcycle endorsement. No, nothing will cure stupid but it could be a way to force new boaters to practice before just going out and ramming into other boaters. Could bring some needed jobs into the economy also in the way of schools and "trainers".

I don't know if he was referring to FL or not, but either way I looked it up and it is a proposed bill current in Session. It's not law yet, but could be in a few weeks... here is the plain language summary:


Boating Safety Education
This proposal would modify Florida's mandatory boating safety education law for anyone operating a motorboat powered by 10 horsepower or more. It would establish a 10-year phase-in period for every vessel operator to pass a basic boating safety course. An exemption would be authorized for those operating a vessel within the first 30 days of purchase, if they have the bill of sale. An exemption from the $2 fee, which is already established in law, would be authorized for governmental employees who are required to take the course as a condition of employment. The Boating Advisory Council supports this issue. At the Commission meeting, staff was directed to look at requiring this provision for operating a boat, with or without a motor.

There is also another one that frosts my cookies... raising the age limit for life jackets from 6 to 13. My daughter is dying of heat stroke when we go out in the boat because we are idling around in 9000 degree heat in one of the 50,000 wake zones in FL and now she's got to do that for 13 years. holy freaking crap. I totally agree while running fast, but in no wake zones it pisses me off.

handfulz28
04-08-2009, 10:55 AM
I'd bet there's been a bill for a boating endorsement every session for years now. We'll see how it goes in a few weeks. Got a link to the full language...for my lazy @ss? :D

As for the mandatory life jackets, that's a tough one. I don't like gov't dictating my personal responsibility, but you know it's for the idiots out there that don't pay attention to what their kids are doing. With the death of the father and his 8yr old daughter down here recently, this might get a lot of attention.

chrisc2
04-08-2009, 12:00 PM
Wa St. has the license requirement now as well. I think it is some sort of phase in scenario. Bottom line is folks will have to get certified. It won't change things at the boat launches on Sunday afternoon's in the summer.:biggrin.:

VetteLT193
04-08-2009, 12:31 PM
I'd bet there's been a bill for a boating endorsement every session for years now. We'll see how it goes in a few weeks. Got a link to the full language...for my lazy @ss? :D

As for the mandatory life jackets, that's a tough one. I don't like gov't dictating my personal responsibility, but you know it's for the idiots out there that don't pay attention to what their kids are doing. With the death of the father and his 8yr old daughter down here recently, this might get a lot of attention.

here is one of them: http://www.flsenate.gov/data/session/2009/Senate/bills/billtext/pdf/s0306c1.pdf

they added language saying you have to be 16 (instead of 14) and have completed the safety course.

DonziJon
04-08-2009, 12:53 PM
In New Hampshire, as of LAST summer, Everybody, repeat Everybody has to have a "Safe Boating Certificate" to drive over 10 HP, including out of state people coming into NH to boat. Life vest minimum age also went from 5 to 13,...or was it 14. Since the "Life Vest" also has to be sized.. Age Specific, no more underage kids get to ride in the Donzi because there just isn't enough room in a Minx for all the various sizes of life vest I would have to carry. :frown:

THIS Summer, the SPEED LIMIT on the big lake (Winni) goes into effect. 45 daytime, 25 night. A LOT of Fountain and Cig owners are going to have less fun....and buy a lot less gas from the local gas docks.

Funny thing about the laws of Unintended Consequences. :rolleyes: John

DonziJon
04-08-2009, 01:10 PM
BTW: The Safe Boating Certificate is pretty much a joke. Did you know...Hydrogen Peroxide is the safest thing for the environment..AND the most effective thing to CLEAN your boat with? :yes:

Some of the stuff you learn is usefull enough, but some has to be memorized because Common Sense won't help you.

One thing you won't learn is that after you leave the dock you should "Take In" your "Bumpers"...I love that word...."Bumpers". :yes: It's SO ...Like...TOTALLY Nautical. With all the A-Holes out there in boats it may even be prudent to leave ALL your "bumpers" swinging over the side ALL the time. John (Certified Boat Operator, for Life)

ChromeGorilla
04-08-2009, 01:15 PM
Hmmm... maybe I shuld change the thread title....:rolleyes: :wink:

zelatore
04-08-2009, 01:18 PM
"Take In" your "Bumpers"...I love that word...."Bumpers".

Oh, that's it. I've lost all respect for New Hampshire law makers now. And they were doing so good up to that point.

Seriously, don't they proof read this stuff?

Lenny
04-08-2009, 01:19 PM
Yes, I was talking about Canada in regards to a "competency water Licence." http://www.cps-ecp.ca/public.asp?WCE=A=Body|C=11|RefreshS=Container|Refr eshT=224445|K=224445

Also, it is for the entire Country, not State to State as in your case. http://www.cps-ecp.ca/?WCE=C=47%7CK=224753%7CRefreshT=224445%7CRefreshS= Container%7CRefreshD=2244453

Also new for this year is a "passport" as if we are flying into the USA, but required now when we enter any port/touch shore anywhere in the USA. Used to be just a drivers licence or similar.

DonziJon
04-08-2009, 02:37 PM
Hmmm... maybe I shuld change the thread title....:rolleyes: :wink:

Chromey: THIS IS about Insurance. If you get your Safe Boating Certificate your insurance WILL be much cheaper....even if you don't need to get the Certificate in Florida yet....AND....It's the Right Thing To Do. :yes:

Besides: It also shows you CARE about Safety. :bighug: John

boxy
04-08-2009, 02:53 PM
Chromey: THIS IS about Insurance. If you get your Safe Boating Certificate your insurance WILL be much cheaper....even if you don't need to get the Certificate in Florida yet....AND....It's the Right Thing To Do. :yes:
Besides: It also shows you CARE about Safety. :bighug: John

I could be wrong, but I'm guessing a State run safe boating course won't help the big Gorilla in this case. Tres Martin will probably be more help.

DonziJon
04-08-2009, 03:34 PM
The Safe Boating Certificate I'm referring to is a program administered by a large number of States under the Blanket of "The National Association of State Boating Law Administrators"...NASBLA. There are many States that avail themselves of this National Organization so as to Standardize requirements. Each State uses the basic standards, as well as tailoring their course to cover Local State Laws.

The Certificate received after studying, and taking a "Proctored" exam is recognized by every participating state and may be considered equivalent to US Power Squadron and CG Auxiliary courses for insurance, as well as reciprocity for operating your boat in other participating states requiring a Safe Boating Certificate. There is a LIST of participating States on the Site if you look around.

I don't need a Certificate (An Age thing) to operate in Rhode Island, but I DO need one to operate in New Hampshire, so I got one from RI which is recognized in NH. John


http://www.nasbla.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=1

ChromeGorilla
04-08-2009, 03:42 PM
Boxy has the right idea....:yes: Not only am I interested in it...my wife is as well...which is cool.

BUIZILLA
04-08-2009, 03:46 PM
I know where there's a nice 600hp 359 Pete to tow it with....

boxy
04-08-2009, 04:03 PM
The Safe Boating Certificate I'm referring to is a program administered by a large number of States under the Blanket of "The National Association of State Boating Law Administrators"...NASBLA. There are many States that avail themselves of this National Organization so as to Standardize requirements. Each State uses the basic standards, as well as tailoring their course to cover Local State Laws.
The Certificate received after studying, and taking a "Proctored" exam is recognized by every participating state and may be considered equivalent to US Power Squadron and CG Auxiliary courses for insurance, as well as reciprocity for operating your boat in other participating states requiring a Safe Boating Certificate. There is a LIST of participating States on the Site if you look around.
I don't need a Certificate (An Age thing) to operate in Rhode Island, but I DO need one to operate in New Hampshire, so I got one from RI which is recognized in NH. John
http://www.nasbla.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=1

Jon, I am well aware of what you are refering to, I've got one in my wallet. I am also an accredited "Proctor" recognized by Forensic and Nautical Consultants of Canada Inc. if anyone in Canada wants to sit at my computer and take the test. :D :D
These cards are nothing like a Power Squadron Course, and I highly doubt you will see any reduction on an Insurance Policy for anything written with greater than 200 hp.

In Canada, we only Grandfathered for so long, it was only 16 and under for a little while,
now that the grace time has passed, everyone must have one, as the Coast Guard here doesn't equate age with skill.

zelatore
04-08-2009, 05:45 PM
Jon, I am well aware of what you are refering to, I've got one in my wallet. I am also an accredited "Proctor" recognized by Forensic and Nautical Consultants of Canada Inc. if anyone in Canada wants to sit at my computer and take the test. :D :D
These cards are nothing like a Power Squadron Course, and I highly doubt you will see any reduction on an Insurance Policy for anything written with greater than 200 hp.
In Canada, we only Grandfathered for so long, it was only 16 and under for a little while,
now that the grace time has passed, everyone must have one, as the Coast Guard here doesn't equate age with skill.

Wait a minute.....next month I'm going to be boating in Canada. Does that mean I need one of these things???

boxy
04-08-2009, 05:59 PM
Wait a minute.....next month I'm going to be boating in Canada. Does that mean I need one of these things???
Here you go .... read it all :D

Q. Who needs the Pleasure Craft Operator Card and when?
A. All operators of powered watercraft used for recreational purposes within Canada will eventually require the card.The following three groups of boaters require the card IMMEDIATELY:

All operators of any powered watercraft under 4m in length (13.1ft)
All operators of PWC's (i.e.: sea-doos and jet skis)
All operators of any powered watercraft born after April 1, 1983
As of September 15, 2009 all boaters will be required to have the Pleasure Craft Operator Card in order to operate a powered watercraft. There is no grandfather clause or age exemption – this law applies to all boaters. Powered watercraft includes watercraft fitted with any size motor – even a trolling motor

but ....... :D :D

Q. What if I don’t live in Canada, but boat there?
A. Non-residents only need to obtain a Pleasure Craft Operator Card if they are operating their powered boat in Canadian waters for more than 45 consecutive days or if the boat they are operating is registered or licensed in Canada (this includes rented boats). Boater Education Cards or equivalent certifications are recognized in Canada. Proper identification should be kept on board at all times to provide proof of residency.


http://www.boaterexam.com/canada/

Lenny
04-08-2009, 06:03 PM
In other words Don, you will be fine, as it is not longer than 45 days and this doesn't kick in, in full force till Sept 15th, 2009.

Now, next year, if you do this again and the boat you are chartering/rented/ is licensed/Registered in Canada, then yes, you will.

DonziJon
04-08-2009, 07:02 PM
Wait a minute.....next month I'm going to be boating in Canada. Does that mean I need one of these things???

I won't challenge your comment about US Power Squadron...etc...However my experience with THEM does NOT increase my Respect for the Power Squadron compared to the NASBLA. They are All little Fiefdoms of Power...Nothing More. They like to roam around in their boats wearing their UNIFORMS acting like ..in their minds..Admirals. John

zelatore
04-08-2009, 07:20 PM
In other words Don, you will be fine, as it is not longer than 45 days and this doesn't kick in, in full force till Sept 15th, 2009.

Now, next year, if you do this again and the boat you are chartering/rented/ is licensed/Registered in Canada, then yes, you will.

Well, that's good to know.

I passed my tests for USCG 100 ton masters with towing endorsement, but you just know if I waited until the last minute to get the Canadian card I'd screw it up somehow. :biggrin.:

smokediver
04-08-2009, 07:51 PM
My insurance is with progressive and real reasonable for my 18 . 400 bucks a year 25,000 in coverage . and the rate goes down every year you dont have a claim ! i had my 16 covered for 10 years and it dropped from 700 a year to 145 a year ! i forgot to mention the power change :biggrin: :biggrin: check them out ... also , there are probably a few more boats here than in Ga. so the probability of something happening is a little higher and like trip said , hurricanes happen a little more often .

boxy
04-08-2009, 08:49 PM
Well, that's good to know.
I passed my tests for USCG 100 ton masters with towing endorsement, but you just know if I waited until the last minute to get the Canadian card I'd screw it up somehow. :biggrin.:

Don, here is a list of recognized endorsements .....

Course Completion Card Request
The following Marine Safety Certificates are recognized for the issuance of a Pleasure Craft Operator Card:
Master mariner;
Master, intermediate voyage;
Master, local voyage;
First mate, intermediate voyage;
First mate, local voyage;
Watchkeeping mate, ship;
Restricted watchkeeping mate, ship;
Watchkeeping mate, MODU/surface;
Watchkeeping mate, MODU/self-elevating;
Watchkeeping mate, MODU/inland;
Master, ship of not more than 350 tons, gross tonnage, or tug, local voyage;
Master, limited;
First mate, limited;
Fishing master, first-class;
Fishing master, second-class;
Fishing master, third-class;
Fishing master, fourth-class;
Certificate of service as master of a fishing vessel of not more than 100 tons, gross tonnage;
Certificate of service as master of a ship of not more than 1600 tons, gross tonnage;
Bridge watchman;
Proficiency in fast rescue boats.
MED-A4
You are exempt from taking the boater exam if you have one of the above certificates. If you choose you may purchase the Pleasure Craft Operator Card that is good for life, the cost is $24.95 +GST. Please complete the form below to proceed: