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DonziJon
04-07-2009, 10:25 AM
Maybe this should prolly be in the Performance Section...Not sure. This is TOTALLY Cool. AND wheely bars to boot. :yes: This will bring GM back to vialability for sure. :bighug: John

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123906731177395605.html#articleTabs%3Darticle

boxy
04-07-2009, 10:34 AM
Forbes.com ran an article about the Top 10 Cars that will save Detroit. In addition to some of the new small platforms, the Expedition, and the new Chrysler 200C make the list...

Article.
http://www.forbes.com/2009/04/06/cars-save-detroit-business-autos-cars.html
Pictures.
http://www.forbes.com/2009/04/06/cars-save-detroit-business-autos-cars_slide.html?thisspeed=25000

mattyboy
04-07-2009, 11:45 AM
yeah I would drive that on 37th st or any one of the parkways or expressways in NY City NOT :rolleyes: but now I know where all the phone booths in the city went :rlol:

VetteLT193
04-07-2009, 11:51 AM
Forbes.com ran an article about the Top 10 Cars that will save Detroit. In addition to some of the new small platforms, the Expedition, and the new Chrysler 200C make the list...
Article.
http://www.forbes.com/2009/04/06/cars-save-detroit-business-autos-cars.html
Pictures.
http://www.forbes.com/2009/04/06/cars-save-detroit-business-autos-cars_slide.html?thisspeed=25000

FYI: The Explorer makes the list, not the expy.

I love how auto makers finally found Turbochargers. When I was a kid I thought every car would eventually have a turbo because it really allows power and economy. finally they are doing it

zelatore
04-07-2009, 12:26 PM
Maybe this should prolly be in the Performance Section...Not sure. This is TOTALLY Cool. AND wheely bars to boot. :yes: This will bring GM back to vialability for sure. :bighug: John
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123906731177395605.html#articleTabs%3Darticle

Yup. Cutting edge stuff.

From 2006:
http://www.techeblog.com/index.php/tech-gadget/toyota-i-unit-demonstration

Strangely, I just don't see either idea taking off in the US.

Lenny
04-07-2009, 12:55 PM
yeah I would drive that on 37th st or any one of the parkways or expressways in NY City NOT :rolleyes: but now I know where all the phone booths in the city went :rlol:

It could double as a hot dog stand too Matty. I can't imagine what a head on would look like with an F-350 tho. :( :worthy:

roadtrip se
04-07-2009, 01:31 PM
Can we spell Prius? Just remember it rhymes with Pious.

This is what Washington thinks we should drive... Peter DeLorenzo has dubbed it the "2011 Obamalosimobile".

Why wouldn't you want this over a Z28, CTS-V, ZR-1, GT GXP? Or for the family, the Malibu, which runs
circles around the Camry and Accord in terms of quality and utility, and gets better economy too.

But no, we focus on a death trap on wheels. I predict next up, carbon exchange credits for anything that doesn't fit the green agenda....

Oh BTW, here is what GM can do when politics are not involved. Nice ride and practical too...

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/04/06/preview-drive-2010-cadillac-srx/

zelatore
04-07-2009, 02:00 PM
That thing looks pretty nice. Granted, I'm no SUV fan, but I've been looking at small SUVs on-line as someone here at work is thinking of buying one. I've been trying to steer her toward the Audi Q5, but if this was out I'd suggest she look at it. Her husband is on his second Escalade, so I know they like Caddies.

There is a LOT of Toyota/Lexus in the exterior design, although I think it looks better than their ute/crossover/4wdminivan/whatevertheywanttocallittoday. I don't much like the center stack or instrument cluster though. Too Buck Rodgers.

boxy
04-07-2009, 02:06 PM
Can we spell Prius? Just remember it rhymes with Pious.
This is what Washington thinks we should drive... Peter DeLorenzo has dubbed it the "2011 Obamalosimobile".
Why wouldn't you want this over a Z28, CTS-V, ZR-1, GT GXP? Or for the family, the Malibu, which runs
circles around the Camry and Accord in terms of quality and utility, and gets better economy too.
But no, we focus on a death trap on wheels. I predict next up, carbon exchange credits for anything that doesn't fit the green agenda....
Oh BTW, here is what GM can do when politics are not involved. Nice ride and practical too...
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/04/06/preview-drive-2010-cadillac-srx/
Trip, the article I posted touches on a lot of what you are saying.

DonziJon
04-07-2009, 02:56 PM
It could double as a hot dog stand too Matty. I can't imagine what a head on would look like with an F-350 tho. :( :worthy:

Not To Worry: This Bad Boy has a Collision Avoidance System (GPS Linked) which will Not Allow it to hit another vehicle..OR.. BE hit by another vehicle. It's probably part of an advanced On Star system.. :yes: John

You can't make this stuff up. :wavey:

Ghost
04-07-2009, 02:57 PM
The itty bitty thing looks like a poor design tradeoff with a $12,000 Smart ForTwo, in terms of range and speed. Not THAT much smaller in footprint, about a sixth of the range of a ForTwo, what, half the speed? What's the point of the two-wheel setup? Going to try to make it legal to drive these things where you would take a wheelchair? I see them as unwelcome on the road and off.

Assuming you need a 20% margin on your commuting range, that cuts this to 28 miles round trip. Who has a commute under 14 miles that never exceeds 35mph and isn't served by public transport already? Hmmm. I don't see it being a smash hit, at least here in the states. In the streets of Beijing, maybe.


I can't imagine what a head on would look like with an F-350 tho. :( :worthy:
Exactly. OnStar? How about a a cheaper monthly fee that simply reports in when and where to pick up the bodies. ("DeathStar" maybe?)

DonziJon
04-07-2009, 03:05 PM
The itty bitty thing looks like a poor design tradeoff with a $12,000 Smart ForTwo, in terms of range and speed. Not THAT much smaller in footprint, about a sixth of the range of a ForTwo, what, half the speed? What's the point of the two-wheel setup? Going to try to make it legal to drive these things where you would take a wheelchair? I see them as unwelcome on the road and off.

Assuming you need a 20% margin on your commuting range, that cuts this to 28 miles round trip. Who has a commute under 14 miles that never exceeds 35mph and isn't served by public transport already? Hmmm. I don't see it being a smash hit, at least here in the states. In the streets of Beijing, maybe.


Exactly. OnStar? How about a a cheaper monthly fee that simply reports in when and where to pick up the bodies. ("DeathStar" maybe?)

YOU PEOPLE are being entirely Too Negative and it's prolly gonna Tick somebody off. . :wink:

Ghost
04-07-2009, 03:09 PM
YOU PEOPLE are being entirely Too Negative. :wink:

Ruh roh, I didn't know it was ilk season! ;)

boxy
04-07-2009, 03:56 PM
Ruh roh, I didn't know it was ilk season! ;)


Eastwood: “I don't like guys of your ilk. You know what an ilk is, don't you?”
Mob Guy: “Yeah, it's a big deer.”

Name that movie.....

zelatore
04-07-2009, 03:57 PM
FWIW, I don't think anybody - and this includes Obama and/or Pelosi - thinks this sort of thing is anywhere near what the auto companies need to build to survive. It's simply unusable in any rural environment and even in many urban environments. It might work in NYC, but that's about it.

This is clearly just an exercise in alternative thinking. Could something like this be useful for inner-city dwellers as a way to get around? Sure. Is it ever going to sell in big numbers or be popular anywhere else? Of course not.

And just as the new products starting to come out of Detroit that actually are worth while (such as the Caddy above) were obviously conceived long before Obama came into the white house, so too GM must have been working on this concept. As I posted above, they aren't the only ones doing so. The Toyota thing in my link above from '06 is very similar, and Toyota has since gone on to develop a second generation of it. Clearly they see this as an avenue worth pursuing, however that doesn't mean they think they'll sell a million of them to US consumers.




<rant>
Lastly, why does everybody always panic over small vehicles and go straight to the old saw about 'I'd hate to see that in a head-on with a big rig' or similar? I've heard that same tired old line trotted out about every small car ever made including such recent rides as the Miata, Mini, and Smart. Aren't we sick of the whole bigger is better thing yet? Do we also have to throw up this safety concern over every motorcycle, bicycle, and pedestrian? Please, give it a rest. If you were really concerned with safety, you'd be banging the drum for some sort of real driver's training in this country so we could maybe avoid some of these accidents in the first place.
</rant>

Ghost
04-07-2009, 04:30 PM
Eastwood: “I don't like guys of your ilk. You know what an ilk is, don't you?”
Mob Guy: “Yeah, it's a big deer.”

Name that movie.....

Was that "Every Which Way But Loose" maybe?

Ghost
04-07-2009, 04:38 PM
<rant>
Lastly, why does everybody always panic over small vehicles and go straight to the old saw about 'I'd hate to see that in a head-on with a big rig' or similar? I've heard that same tired old line trotted out about every small car ever made including such recent rides as the Miata, Mini, and Smart. Aren't we sick of the whole bigger is better thing yet? Do we also have to throw up this safety concern over every motorcycle, bicycle, and pedestrian? Please, give it a rest. If you were really concerned with safety, you'd be banging the drum for some sort of real driver's training in this country so we could maybe avoid some of these accidents in the first place.
</rant>

Just in case I inadvertently helped induce this rant, I want to state categorically that I was and remain wholly unconcerned about anyone's safety in these things. :)

I was commenting on the mismatch. I don't care about it, I just thought it was lopsided. I think there is great value and future in small, light cars. But you picks your car and you takes your chances. I am fine with small cars, big cars, motorcycles, trucks, whatever. Pick your poison.

I do like the idea of really teaching people to drive. And how about some freaking left-lane putz enforcement instead of all the cash grab crap we have growing like wildfire right now?

Cuda
04-07-2009, 05:23 PM
YOU PEOPLE are being entirely Too Negative and it's prolly gonna Tick somebody off. . :wink:
They will either get over it, or die with it. One or the other.

Carl C
04-07-2009, 05:52 PM
How many of these stupid things do they really think they will sell? Segways aren't flying out the door. Mainly police and security agencies are buying them. Why would someone plunk down about $7-8g (my estimate) when they can buy a moped for a few hundred bucks and mopeds can be driven on the street without insurance or license plates? What genious dreamed this up and how is it better than a motorcycle?

boxy
04-07-2009, 06:08 PM
Was that "Every Which Way But Loose" maybe?
Nope .... :D

City Heat with Burt Rynelods.

mattyboy
04-07-2009, 06:14 PM
you drive that thing in midtown Manhattan and you're gonna get your ass kicked by a pedestrian, seriously when making a left or right turn you need to work your bumper thru the mass of Humanity crossing the street , they are gonna look at you like WTF grab your bumper and flip you like a turtle :yes:

"hey I'm walkin here, GTFO and buy a real Fuuuckin car"

BUIZILLA
04-07-2009, 06:34 PM
think TDI....

roadtrip se
04-08-2009, 09:12 AM
Let me let you in on a little secret, I don't care if Toyota is building one too, nobody is going to buy it...

Case and point, the Smart Car and Prius sales are in the tank. Nobody wants them. Or everyone who did, already bought one.
So, I guess maybe, a few of these folks might step up, but please.

And don't you find it ironic that GM is touting this piece of crap when they have so many other great stories to tell, like the new Caddy, and the Cruze, and about twenty other vehicles that people might actaully want to buy for everyday life?

Hello Big Brother?

I stumbled across an article quoting your San Francisco mayor yesterday. It absolutely supported the whole, "we legislated it, now you go build it" thought set. Hell, he even brought up the GM-EV project and how GM killed it, and how basically they were going to force GM to build it any way. As anybody reminded this bufoon about the Volt? Sorry I can't find it now or I would post it here.

Dirty little secret, if the government running the car companies doesn't run them into the ground, trying to make all of these pie-in-the-sky green mandates will, sooner than later.

And then Segway can buy GM and build all of us one of theses shiney beauties. There will be plenty of plant capacity.

zelatore
04-08-2009, 10:01 AM
Let me let you in on a little secret, I don't care if Toyota is building one too, nobody is going to buy it...
Case and point, the Smart Car and Prius sales are in the tank. Nobody wants them. Or everyone who did, already bought one.
So, I guess maybe, a few of these folks might step up, but please.
And don't you find it ironic that GM is touting this piece of crap when they have so many other great stories to tell, like the new Caddy, and the Cruze, and about twenty other vehicles that people might actaully want to buy for everyday life?
Hello Big Brother?
I stumbled across an article quoting your San Francisco mayor yesterday. It absolutely supported the whole, "we legislated it, now you go build it" thought set. Hell, he even brought up the GM-EV project and how GM killed it, and how basically they were going to force GM to build it any way. As anybody reminded this bufoon about the Volt? Sorry I can't find it now or I would post it here.
Dirty little secret, if the government running the car companies doesn't run them into the ground, trying to make all of these pie-in-the-sky green mandates will, sooner than later.
And then Segway can buy GM and build all of us one of theses shiney beauties. There will be plenty of plant capacity.

Don't get me wrong - I don't see this being a big seller in the US. Much as the Segway is interesting and fills it's particular segment of the market this thing could as well. But I have no doubts it will ever be more than a footnote in terms of the american automotive landscape.

My reference to Toyota also playing with a similar concept was mainly to point out that A-this is nothing new and B-GM isn't alone in thinking their might be profit to be made in something like this. Nothing wrong with that, and it does't imply that the 2020 Vette will look like a phone booth.

The main thrust of my comments was to say that GM must have had this thing under development well before the government got involved with them. That they decided to show it now may be an indirect product of that involvement- i.e. they are trying to appease the government by saying 'look, we don't just build SUVs!' (so leave us alone!)

As for the legislation intended to force production of vehicles that aren't likely to be popular ... or even the broader idea of the federal government trying to run an auto manufacturer, I'm right with you. The car companies generally know how to make money. Yes, they screwed up recently by getting too heavily invested in the short-sighted production of large SUVs and the like but they did it for the simple reason that those were what the public was demanding. Obviously they should have forseen that the cheap gas/cheap credit bubble couldn't last and started development of other vehicles sooner but they didn't. This along with generally poor quality seem to be the main failures. From what I can tell (and I think you would agree) they realized this and were trying - successfully- to right the ship when they were broadsided by a much larger problem in the form of the overall economy tanking.

If we really wanted the automakers to sell small efficient cars, we all know what it would take - increased demand. And we all know how to increase demand - drive up gas prices. It really is that simple - we just proved it with 100% certainty over the last year. When gas was pushing $5/gal, you couldn't give away a Suburban, and couldn't buy a Prius with a blank check. But guess what? The average American car owner would prefer, all things being equal, a bigger, more powerful, more luxurious car to a smaller, more economical, less powerful car.

Rocket science, huh?

And with gas prices back down ($2.49 for regular this morning in Oakland) people are again buying what they WANT instead of what they NEED.

So, if the legislators really wanted to get us off oil and increase sales of small cars all they need to do is raise the gas tax dramatically.

It will work. Guaranteed, 100%, it will work.

Heck, it would even put money into the federal coffers when it's badly needed.

But of course nobody's going to suggest that. And although with the correct oversight and provisions I might support it, it's a matter that warrants it's own debate elsewhere.

BTW, just for the record I thought I'd mention I don't actually live or work in San Francisco city or county. In fact, other than passing through on the way to SFO like I did this morning, I try to go there as little as I can. So although I find Gavin Newsom interesting as a leader, I didn't vote for him and have no say in any of his policies. My little river town (Walnut Grove, population about 1700) doesn't even have a stop light much less a mayor, although we do have a gas station, a grocery store, and a NAPA, which makes us a 'big' town in the delta :wink:

CHACHI
04-08-2009, 10:10 AM
think TDI....

Have 2..................love 'em.

Ken

zelatore
04-08-2009, 10:43 AM
think TDI....

To heck with TDI, think 335d

36 mpg
265 hp
425 ft/lbs torque at 1750 RPM:worthy::worthy:

That's more than any 1/2 ton truck!


'course, TDI ain't half bad either.

roadtrip se
04-08-2009, 10:46 AM
Buiz and Chachi, got one TDI and will probably buy another. The super size one in the EX ain't too bad either...

Don, I am going to stay away from your want and need analogy, other than to state that this isn't really something that I feel should be mandated by government.

As for the gas tax increases, the folks in Detroit are begging for them, because they know that the CAFE mandates are going to force them to build small cars that people won't want to buy other wise. As for giving the government more of my cash, um no.

As for San Fran, I think your governator out there has gone as looney as the rest of them, when it comes to this issue. I did see a pic of him shopping for a Challenger SRT8, so I guess he wants to have his cake and eat it too.

And oh, the BMW diesel offers have darn right stupid prices on them unfortunately. I would like to see one in the One series at a price normal humans could afford, and I know they build it...

Thanks again for the feedback, Don.

mattyboy
04-08-2009, 11:09 AM
well i will say if the segway thing takes off the carjackers won't have to worry about getting you out of the car , they can just pick you and the car up and carry you away ;)

handfulz28
04-08-2009, 11:13 AM
How is this thing much different than a golf cart?

Why isn't the USPS using electric vehicles?

zelatore
04-08-2009, 11:59 AM
I didn't mean to imply that people need to buy smaller cars, only that for the most part people's needs could be met by smaller cars.

Most of the time we're simply commuting to work...one or two people in the car...maybe pick up some groceries or a pizza on the way home. That could easily be handled by the most basic of cars. Really, in terms of transportation, a Prius, Golf TDI, or even a Smart can meet most people's actual needs. Naturally that all changes when you have a family of 7 and actually use that 3rd row seat in your SUV or tow/haul stuff and put your truck to use. But in those cases, the definition of need changes anyway.

(I should point out that the electric phone booth that started this whole thread however would not meet those basic needs for most people, which is why I don't believe that sort of design will ever be a viable mass-market product.)

I'll also reiterate that I don't like the idea of big brother dictating what we should buy. I'm no fan of SUVs in general, but that doesn't mean I want to force people out of them. I do however wish more people would consider other cars. A nice A4 Avant or 3-series Touring anyone?