Huckins, and other tasty matters

[Ghost]

I've often wondered if it wasn't more marketing than engineering.

Regardless of what the bottom of the boats look like, the top sides are pretty sweet!
http://www.huckinsyacht.com/ (http://www.huckinsyacht.com/)

I figured I would be pushing the digression in George's thread too far, so I started a new thread. All are welcome to chime in with anythng on this free-for-all, but I HAVE to ask Don this. (And I can accept that the answer might include "I am not at liberty to say for business reasons.")

So, with all the cool old and retro boats, Huckins among them, and the classic styles, where do you stand on the bloated-Euro-shim-window style that a lot of builders seem to have embraced of late? (Okay, I betrayed my own thoughts just a wee bit there, but why not have some fun with it?) Seriously, I just DO NOT get the whole genre. Everyone once in a while I see a really long, low version in this style (usually takes 80 feet or more) and I think, 'hey, that's a pretty sexy version. Be even better if they killed the shim-windows and made it look like a classic yacht.' Doesn't mean I wouldn't love to hang out on them. Doesn't mean they aren't great fun. Just not how I'd have designed the look, that's all.

My apologies to any who love the style, I mean no insult. I am strictly speaking of matters of aesthetic preference, and anyone who wants to strike back and call me a tasteless pratt is more than welcome. All in good fun here.

Also, I have wondered if there was a big layout advantage or something that made such good engineering sense that it had to happen, a bit like streamlining of cars/trains/etc. I can accept function over form. As I recall, I was one of the defenders of the natural evolutionary place of the pontoon boat and its joys... :)

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1010/700107230_5213211112.jpg
http://www.huckinsyacht.com/brokerage/assets/56_meridian_sml.jpg
http://www.navis-yacht-charter.com/thumb/phpThumb.php?w=175&src=/upload/iblock/9c4/yacht_charter_croatia_sunseeker_yacht_75.jpg

[BUIZILLA]

I was with ya.... :worthy:

until I got to the pontoon part.. :biggrin:

[zelatore]

Speaking for myself, I've found the more time I have in the business, the more I appreciate the classic designs.

And while I do love the true classics, I also very much like the modern retro style boats. For example modern Chris Craft or Huckins boats, but especially the down east boats.

(This was not an easy admission to make to myself – I spent many years building my prejudice that all of the north east was just a suburb of NYC and that I should dislike all those pesky little states up there. I’ve since realized the error of my ways enough that I actually spent a week in Maine last year…..and I liked it!)

That's not to say I don't like modern designs; I do find many of them attractive; gorgeous even. However they don't age well. The euro-look can be well done and quite striking today, but most likely it will just look dated tomorrow.

For comparison's sake, let's take a pair of 50' express boats. First, something I have here at my docks –the Marquis 50 Sport Coupe http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/marquis-yachts/9123-review-marquis-50-sport-coupe.html (some day I'll learn how to insert pics directly into my text - until then see pic one below)

This is a very nice boat - three staterooms, triple IPS motors, fast, good economy...but mostly it's just plain sexy. Although the design was done in Italy, it's built in Wisconsin and unlike most of the true-blue euro boats (Azimut, Viking, Sunseaker, etc) it feels much more generous inside. Most of the euros feel like they're built to 5/8 scale once you step aboard. They just seem to cram too much 'stuff' in. But all that is beside the point. We're talking about style here. There is no immediate predecessor to this boat so I don’t have an old example to point to but I’m sure all of you have seen a 10 or 20 year old example of something that was quite exotic in it’s day but looks just ugly today. You know, like Don Johnson.

On the other end of the scale, let’s look at the EastBay 49SX (pic two below).
http://www.grandbanks.com/yachts/eastbay/49sx/gallery.cfm#

Other than following the current trend of fully enclosing the helm deck, you’d be hard pressed to put a year to the design. The basic design has been around a long time because it looked good 20 years ago and you can expect it will still look good 20 year from now. Granted, this doesn’t really have much in common with a true lobster boat; this is a Hunt desiged modified V planning hull with twin screws where real working lobster boats were usually semi-displacement rounded hulls with a single screw and full keel, but you can still see the family resemblance.

Both boats are targeted at the same basic market. Upscale, enclosed wheelhouse, low profile, twin (or triple in the Marquis’ case) diesels for good speed, planning hulls, more for weekending and entertaining that extended cruising...they just get there in very different ways.

You’ll also usually find certain family traits in the basic designs. The modern designs usually have less function to them in terms of smaller side decks and less window space to see out and a very euro helm that has built-in spaces to accommodate the electronics and gauges the boat was originally designed to accommodate. (and don’t expect to find a chart table!) The down-east design will likely have huge glass area around the helm deck for excellent visibility and wide side decks to make movement around the boat easy. You can expect the helm will be more open – a large slab of wood (teak or American cherry most likely) that can be filled with whatever electronics you want and easily replaced should the owner want to change down the road, and probably a nice chart area as well. You’ll probably also find more concessions to service aboard the down east design in the form of drop out access panels or better engine access. Of course, those big side decks and generous engine room mean you loose interior volume, and part of the boat’s over-all retro charm likely comes from things like varnished teak accents and oiled decks – and that spells high maintenance.

Just as if you asked 3 people to pick a 2-seat sports car one guy might chose a Z-06 Vette, another a F430, and yet another a 911 Turbo, each design is simply a reflection of the owner’s personal style.

In the end, it really comes down to taste.

But I’m sure you already knew that.

And if any of you are looking to buy a 50’ express style boat, let me just say right now you should buy a Marquis 50. From me.



Bonus points for anybody who finds the Donzi connection in my comments above.

[zelatore]

Oh, but the pontoon comment was just going too far....:wink:

[zelatore]

I might also point out that genuine vintage boats, while offering charm and heritage in spades, are not all they're cracked up to be in terms of actual day to day use. Aside from the upkeep of a wood boat and generally old systems, you would expect to find things like narrower hulls that mean less room; engines that took up more room, weighed more, and made less power; small staterooms; no accommodations for modern electronics; and many other things that come with an old boat.

Again, this doesn't mean the old boat is bad, simply that it's old. I used to own a 68 Porsche 911. All my friends thought it was the coolest thing around. Little did they realize that although it was pretty cool, by modern standards it wasn't much of a car at all. Heck, a new Civic would probably best it in almost any comparison except appreciation. The same holds true for old boats. You have to love them for what they are, but almost anybody who's actually had one will tell you technology has done a lot to improve things over the last 50 odd years.

[Ghost]

I'm going to say the Don Johnson was a connection.

[zelatore]

I'm going to say the Don Johnson was a connection.
Bzzt!

actually it's this line in the link to the Marquis review
"Powered by Volvo Penta’s IPS system – a triple play – she traipses across the water covering a 10-mile stretch of South Beach water like a Gasoline Alley Go-Fast born from the fertile mind of the Don."

Half credit for the Don Johnson comment though. :convertib:

[gcarter]

A year ago Elaine and I visited Don at the dealership he works at. Among the boats he showed us was the Marquis 50, or something close to it. And while it is a very "complete" boat w/all its staterooms, heads, and other facilities, I couldn't help thinking there's a lot of wasted space w/all the curved surfaces inside.
If you were to compare it to the Huckins, which happens to be very similar in execution to the boats built in the 40's and 50's, so the salons, staterooms, heads, and gallies are all square and perpendicular unless it's following the hull shape. I think the Huckins "type" retro style is very efficient and is very classy if the proper materials are used.
Afterall, the originals were mainly painted white inside on almost every surface and had linoleum floors. Of course they didn't have air conditioning to control humidity and being a wood boat, everything was exposed to moisture, so such simple materials made sense.
But the boats of this type I like the best are FBSF's built in the late '70's in glass but the interiors were still largely wood framed. These boats can be bought very inexpensively and modernized very easily. Many were originally Diesel powered so even upgrading the driveline is pretty simple to do.

[zelatore]

Viking, Hatteras, Uniflite...there are lots of good glass hulls from the 70's that make good candidates for updating. But unless you can do the work yourself it's going cost you a pretty penny. Even if you can do the work, just repowering makes it tough to figure cost wise. A pair of modern diesels around 300-400 hp will set you back as much or more than the boat did in the first place.

I should mention that I also like sport fishing convertibles even though I don't own so much as a singe rod and reel - they are designs that tend to be very functional and just look good.

[Ghost]

As an aside, anyone here ever gotten a ride in a Dorado? The 40 in particular always looked like a very interesting platform you could do a lot with, and get a lot of range with decent economy.

I also thought the single big diesel with a transmission to split power out to a pair of volvo drives was a cool idea. (Actually have seen one with 4 duoprop drives, which starts to seem like a lot to take care of.) But these guys looked like they did some interesing experiments. Maybe IPS would be a good option for these. There's even one for sale with jets. Shallow draft, fishing rigged, lots of seating, plenty of room to sleep, it could be a go-anywhere, do-anything boat for the Chesapeake.

Here's another one that looks like a great idea to me, that may have only gotten local press:
http://www.eastportyacht.com/

[Craig S]

And don't forget about the new Trumpy...Same classic looks, but updated. And beamier. With modern construction.

The pontoon boat? If I wasn't so vain, that's the only boat I'd need.

[zelatore]

Here's another one that looks like a great idea to me, that may have only gotten local press:
http://www.eastportyacht.com/

That looks more like a 'real' lobster boat than the down easters I favor. It also looks a lot like the MJM boats, although I prefer the Eastport's plumb bow.
http://www.mjmyachts.com/34z.html

Honestly though I don't personally like either of them, at least not for the sort of boating I do out here. Too open for the west coast or PNW. My favorites are more like the Sabre, Eastbay, Hunt, etc.
http://www.sabreyachts.com/motor_yachts/sabreline38_express/image_gallery.php
http://www.grandbanks.com/yachts/eastbay/39sx/index.cfm
http://www.huntyachts.com/

Or I could also get into something like this from Back Cove-
http://backcoveyachts.com/backcove33/virtual-tour.php
In fact, in just over a month I plan to spend a week with one of these puppies exploring the Canadian Gulf Islands. :biggrin.:

[zelatore]

In the interest of full disclosure, I'll say that when I replace my current 32 Carver it will likely be with something in the mid-30' range, either a down-easter like the stuff above if I keep the boat in the SF area, or possibly an American Tug 34 if I put a boat in Washington.http://www.americantugs.com/at34/photos.htm
The little AT34 is almost perfect for a cruising couple in the PNW. I found a brokerage one for sale at the Seattle show that I really wanted. If only my checkbook had wanted it too.

[gcarter]

I like closed boats too. It has to do with me and air conditioning. That's one of the reasons I like 36'-40' FBSF's so much. A few years ago I seriously looked at a '76 38' Pacemaker FBSF. The particular model was essentially a cut down Pacemaker 40'. It had twin Volvo Diesels which had originally been a pair 6-71's. A 12 KW Diesel gen set, three AC units, gally down, and two staterooms. We just couldn't get together on price.
Six months later the owner sold it to another individual for $10K less. Timing is everything.

It was similar to this;

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1973-Pacemaker-38-Sport-93601940

[MOP]

Ghost "John Galt" would have loved the Huckins triple/kockpit you have pictured. A friend of mines dad had one, it 290hp 671's, it rode great and had about two knots on glass counter parts. I too can not stand the "Plastic Fantastics" with the squashed washing machine look, to me that are very tasteless!

Phil

[Ghost]

Ghost "John Galt" would have loved the Huckins triple/kockpit you have pictured. A friend of mines dad had one, it 290hp 671's, it rode great and had about two knots on glass counter parts.

Interesting. I always thought it had great and fairly unique lines, while retaining a classic appearance. But also, it always look like it is running at a good angle, not plowing. That may be consistent with your observations. The thing just looks like it's running right.