PDA

View Full Version : Swapping 22C deck



yeller
03-23-2009, 03:13 PM
Lenny already posted some pics of the removal: http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=56709

Here's a few more pics.

Pics "Old deck1~4" are the reason for the removal. These are some of the best pics I could get. A lot of the problem is difficult to get to show up on camera.

yeller
03-23-2009, 03:23 PM
Pic1, removed all gauges and hardware. The ugly hole beside the steering hole is because the previous owner relocated the switches and mounted 4 aftermarket gauges there. The switches were relocated to the side of the cockpit. You can see the rectangular hole just in front of where the throttle would be. I really liked them in that.

Pic2, seperated deck from hull. It looks as if 5200 was used between the hull/deck overlap as I had go around the boat and hammer a chisel between the two to break them apart.

Pic3, moved the storage canopy and set up the hoist

Pic4, nailed together 2-2x4's and ran them through the speaker holes. This was not the balancing point as it was probably about 100lbs heavy on the bow end.

Pic5, about 5 minutes after Lenny arrived. Tools set up and beer already cracked. :biggrin.: The new deck is poking out of the carport.

yeller
03-23-2009, 03:27 PM
Pic6, Deck going into Lenny's uhaul.

Pics "Putty1~4" are for Gcarter. It shows the use of putty to support the cockpit floor and ski locker.

In pic3, for reference, I placed the seat bases exactly where they would sit in the cockpit.

gcarter
03-23-2009, 03:38 PM
I'm assuming it's a poly fuel tank??????

Lenny
03-23-2009, 03:56 PM
Yes, poly (2004)

Glen, how are your stringer areas under the bottom? 496 Mag HO boat.

yeller
03-23-2009, 03:56 PM
I originally hoped I could move the fuel tank further back in an effort to reduce some of my porpoising issues. I don't use the in-floor storage so losing that wasn't a concern. Once the deck is off, you really get a better perspective on the true size of the 55gal tank. I figured I'd have to relocate one of the bulkheads, but now after seeing the tank, the relocation would leave too much of an unsupported area, so I don't want to do that. For now I'll measure the 'empty' space and maybe order a tank that fits once the finances have be shored up. I don't mind doing it later because removing the deck was far less work than I anticipated. Doing it again, I have no doubt I could pop the deck, install a tank, and have the deck back on in a single weekend.

For now the plans are to beef up the outer sides of the engine compartment stringers. When I had the hull crack repaired, it was recommended by the glass guy that this be done. Unfortunately, he never said this to me until I was picking it up.

I also plan on Carlizing the front storage area. Seems like a waste of a brand new ski-locker as it's going to get bastardized :rolleyes: but I didn't know one was coming with the new deck. Had I known, I would have cancelled it and saved a few bucks.

Hopefully I'll get the deck on within a few weeks and off to the paint shop for the stripe. I'd really like to be ready by the 1st of May. :yes:

A couple pics of the new one:

yeller
03-23-2009, 03:58 PM
Yes, poly (2004)

Glen, how are your stringer areas under the bottom? 496 Mag HO boat.I've had the warranty repair done and it is holding up well.

Carl C
03-23-2009, 05:05 PM
I also plan on Carlizing the front storage area.

Hey, can I copyright that???? I don't see how the hell Donzi got out of covering that under the 5 year hull warranty. Can't blame that on a pro-charger:rolleyes:.

Here is a Carlized 22C for the uninitiated:

gcarter
03-23-2009, 05:15 PM
MOP put in a rear tank.
Actually, that may be the best of both worlds. You could have more than 100 gallons maybe.
Wow, Fill up where it's cheap and use it for several days.

I'm also planning a Carl-like platform but something smaller and removable.
I don't like mods that become "permanent". If you can't access an area, you can't repair it easily or inexpensively.

Carl C
03-23-2009, 05:36 PM
MOP put in a rear tank.
Actually, that may be the best of both worlds. You could have more than 100 gallons maybe.
Wow, Fill up where it's cheap and use it for several days.

I'm also planning a Carl-like platform but something smaller and removable.
I don't like mods that become "permanent". If you can't access an area, you can't repair it easily or inexpensively.

George, the fuel tank is not really accessable anyway as replacing it requires removing the deck. Also the plastic tank should last a long time and if it does fail it wouldn't be too hard to set the cutting depth of a circular saw and cut out the floor area over the tank. I would know where to cut by referencing my screw holes. I can still access the hose clamps. My mod added about 15 pounds over stock if I remember right and if I pull the carpet out I am lighter than stock.

Yeller, git-r-done. spring is here and our boating season is short.

yeller
03-23-2009, 05:42 PM
Hey, thanks for those pics Carl. I've seen them before, but it saves me trying to find them.
I like the way you painted it white inside. Really brightens it up. I plan on installing marine headliner material. Just makes it a bit cozier when you have more than ten people in there. :biggrin.:
I'm thinking I'll cut the entire ski locker section out, but keep the entire foot rest(s) (except the lowest part in the center) and then hinge the foot rests so I can drop them down when I want to fully utilize the bow area.

MR MAGOO
03-23-2009, 05:42 PM
-just jumping in here, haven't had the time to read the other posts on this subject.

Just wondering, why are you swapping the deck? Are you removing a damaged piece and relacing with a new deck?

Thanks,

Kurt

Ed Donnelly
03-23-2009, 05:49 PM
O.K. Question time

1) where did you get the replacement deck??

2) what is that body of water in the background????

You can use North Van as a reference point,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Ed

yeller
03-23-2009, 05:49 PM
George, the fuel tank is not really accessable anyway as replacing it requires removing the deck. Also the plastic tank should last a long time and if it does fail it wouldn't be too hard to set the cutting depth of a circular saw and cut out the floor area over the tank. I would know where to cut by referencing my screw holes. I can still access the hose clamps.
Carl, I was talking with George earlier about moving my tank back in an attempt to reduce my porpoising. His suggestion was to install a back tank and use the front one only when necessary.
I know your not planning to (this is more for anyone else thinking of doing it), but if you needed to replace your tank, I certainly wouldn't cut the floor out. After removing my deck, it is surprisingly simple. Using an engine hoist and top brace like we did with mine, I could easily pop the deck, install a tank, and have it all buttoned up like new in a weekend (by myself). It really is that easy. :yes:

yeller
03-23-2009, 05:51 PM
-just jumping in here, haven't had the time to read the other posts on this subject.
Just wondering, why are you swapping the deck? Are you removing a damaged piece and relacing with a new deck?
Thanks,
KurtSee the pics in post 1

yeller
03-23-2009, 05:54 PM
O.K. Question time
1) where did you get the replacement deck??
2) what is that body of water in the background????
You can use North Van as a reference point,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Ed
1) Donzi. They paid a small portion, and I paid a large portion of the total replacement cost.

2) Indian Arm. That is NVan on the other side Ed. Dollarton Hwy would be running along that coast line. A little bit to the right and further up is Deep Cove.

mike o
03-23-2009, 06:02 PM
Lenny already posted some pics of the removal: http://www.donzi.net/forums/showthread.php?t=56709

Here's a few more pics.

Pics "Old deck1~4" are the reason for the removal. These are some of the best pics I could get. A lot of the problem is difficult to get to show up on camera. Hi, Its tough to tell from the pics... is the original deck laminating?

yeller
03-23-2009, 06:10 PM
Hi, Its tough to tell from the pics... is the original deck laminating?I had a few glass guys look at it and they all said they couldn't be 100% sure without grinding into it, but the general consensus was that the glass was seperating from the coring. The thought behind it was that the coring wasn't properly saturated when installed and it wicked the resin out of the glass.
That's my only regret to giving Lenny the deck. I really wanted to cut it open to get a cross section view......but there was no point in doing that if someone can make use of the deck.

Lenny
03-23-2009, 06:26 PM
I The thought behind it was that the coring wasn't properly saturated when installed and it wicked the resin out of the glass.



They would not have cored it the same day as they put in the first one (two) layers of mat in Glen. There was probably a 4 hour time frame from spraying in the gel and then the first layers of matt. Once that had all kicked, ( probably 6-8 hours as in overnight) it would have been left alone a day, a week, whatever. Once, what looks like about 5 layers of roven, and or 1708,1808 and alternating mat in between, or in the form of a backer on the reinforcement was all laided in, they then would have gone to the coring process. Either after that above mix had cured overnight or at the end of that lay up process. But I doubt that due to print through concerns. Including the matt against the gel, then the reinforcing and the matt or backer between all those lay-ups, I would "guess" that these hulls have about 12 layers in them BEFORE the 1/2" coring which is finished off with roven and cloth. So about 14 in all. Without setting fire to it I can't be sure. :D

SO, Not my thought. Not the coring at all. The first layup of mat onto the gelcoat was probably not wetted out properly and you had some uncured (unsaturated actually as in NO resin) fibers beside the Gelcoat. Gelcoat is not impervious to water. The water can come in contact with these fibers and it wicks till it reaches a cured (soaked) portion of that fiber. When it meets the resin there is a chemical reaction that takes place and an acidic off-gassing is the byproduct. This pressurized gas has nowhere to go but up through the Gelcoat (or at least bubble it.)

Much the same as putting somethng hot onto a laminate countertop. You end up with a blister/bubble where the hot surface was. The reason behind that is the heating of the contact cement underneath the laminate and it then offgases, and, well, nowhere to go.

I got a feeling there was a "tarp" somewhere in this boats past, or it wouldn't fit into wherever it was stored and the foredeck was covered. (just a hunch as I do not know if you bought it new or not. If new, then you would know. :)

mike o
03-23-2009, 06:27 PM
I had a few glass guys look at it and they all said they couldn't be 100% sure without grinding into it, but the general consensus was that the glass was separating from the coring. The thought behind it was that the coring wasn't properly saturated when installed and it wicked the resin out of the glass.

That's my only regret to giving Lenny the deck. I really wanted to cut it open to get a cross section view......but there was no point it doing that if someone can make use of the deck..... was there coremat in that deck. If coremat doesn't get the amount of resin it wants, especially the 3-4-5mm...it steals it (resin) from the substrate under it... and that what ya get...... Every time.

Lenny
03-23-2009, 06:41 PM
I only use 3 mil Coremat and it is a $itch to wet out. Basically it has to be like a wet noodle before you can be good with it. I do not know if there is any Mike, (again, without lighting it) but they would have let the first one/two kick before going into the actual lay-up if you ask me. In which case it would be a non issue.

A carbon veil is an easier alternative.

Like I said, these decks (hulls) are THICK before the coring comes along.

yeller
03-23-2009, 06:54 PM
You know what Lenny, I easily could have misunderstood what the cause was. I talked to different glass guys over the years and we discussed all types of possibilities. One guy thought it may be the glass seperating from the coring and one thought it was the gel seperating from the glass. That I know for sure. I don't remember exactly what the other guys said, but I do remember they said something similiar to this:
When it meets the resin there is a chemical reaction that takes place and an acidic off-gassing is the byproduct. This pressurized gas has nowhere to go but up through the Gelcoat (or at least bubble it.)

I do know they all said they couldn't be sure until they took the grinder to it.

As far as a cover goes, I never had a non-breathable cover on it and I rarely used one except for long road trips. I can't comment on the previous owner. I would have to guess that he never used a tarp though. I do know he had a ton of cash and I'm sure he had proper storage for it.......but $ doesn't necessarily = brains.

gcarter
03-23-2009, 06:56 PM
Like I said, these decks (hulls) are THICK before the coring comes along.

I wish the older decks were as good. Hardly any 'glass at all. Lots of mat though.

mike o
03-23-2009, 07:05 PM
I only use 3 mil Coremat and it is a $itch to wet out. Basically it has to be like a wet noodle before you can be good with it. I do not know if there is any Mike, (again, without lighting it) but they would have let the first one/two kick before going into the actual lay-up if you ask me. In which case it would be a non issue.

A carbon veil is an easier alternative.

Like I said, these decks (hulls) are THICK before the coring comes along..... I don't know what the lamination schedule is. But i would think there would be more than 2 or 3 layer on the 1st wet out... cause it will pre ejaculate.. whoops.. pre - release in 24 hrs without more laminate than that on it. Ya suppose to back wet the 3 MM plus coremat to prevent it from stealing resin and doing what i mentioned above. You can put a air roller to the coremat and break down the binder to distribute the resin better. I don't use CM anymore, but I did for yrs.:yes: It uses way to much resin. The 1-2 mm will block the print through.

farmer tx
03-23-2009, 11:35 PM
Just wondering, whats with all the foam in the hull? Why move weight rearwards when you could dig all that foam out and end up with the same result.:smash:

gcarter
03-24-2009, 05:46 AM
Mark, the foam is used as a base to support the cockpit w/a bunch of polyester putty under the corners of the cockpit and on top of the foam, i.e., the foam gives a place for the pile of putty to sit, then the corners of the cockpit compress the putty when the deck is lowered.
It's Donzi's low cost method to keep the cockpit floor off the stringers. Except now the putty is getting pretty expensive.

Ranman
03-24-2009, 08:33 AM
Mark, the foam is used as a base to support the cockpit w/a bunch of polyester putty under the corners of the cockpit and on top of the foam, i.e., the foam gives a place for the pile of putty to sit, then the corners of the cockpit compress the putty when the deck is lowered.
It's Donzi's low cost method to keep the cockpit floor off the stringers. Except now the putty is getting pretty expensive.

And the putty is brittle and can break away ultimately leaving a gap between the floor and the top of the stringers leading to issues resulting from an unsupported tub.

gcarter
03-24-2009, 09:49 AM
And the putty is brittle and can break away ultimately leaving a gap between the floor and the top of the stringers leading to issues resulting from an unsupported tub.

There you go!

Cheap solutions hardly ever work the way intended.

That's why I like to bolt in the cockpit floor to the stringers.

Mr X
03-24-2009, 11:48 AM
Mark, the foam is used as a base to support the cockpit w/a bunch of polyester putty under the corners of the cockpit and on top of the foam, i.e., the foam gives a place for the pile of putty to sit, then the corners of the cockpit compress the putty when the deck is lowered.
It's Donzi's low cost method to keep the cockpit floor off the stringers. Except now the putty is getting pretty expensive.

Funny, I tought the foam was for floatation.

MOP
03-24-2009, 12:31 PM
George pointe out that I put an aft tank in, it did totally do away with the porpoising. I did it on advice about getting as much weight aft as possible to make the hull perform better. You have to remember Donzi along with most others have to build a boat that meets many criterior, I am sure if it were for all out performance they would where the weight was. With all the stuff I moved I use quite a bit less trim which I feel adds to performance.

If I were you I would consider the aft tank, I settled for an off the shelf 40 gallon but there is enough room for a few more gallons.

Phil

gcarter
03-24-2009, 12:46 PM
Funny, I tought the foam was for floatation.

It may be Ted, but w/o the foam, the putty wouldn't have a place for support.

Carl C
03-24-2009, 12:51 PM
Funny, I tought the foam was for floatation.

Yupper. The blob of putty sits on a plywood surface and I had a heck of a time breaking the bond.

BUIZILLA
03-24-2009, 01:07 PM
that's how Sea Doo glues their PWC's together...

:outtahere:

CHACHI
03-24-2009, 01:44 PM
Just what do they call that "putty" and where can you purchase it?

Ken

RickSE
03-24-2009, 02:24 PM
They would not have cored it the same day as they put in the first one (two) layers of mat in Glen...

I always thought they sprayed in chopper for the first coat of glass on the gel before thay started laying in any mat?

As for the relation between heat & blisters, I have one quarter sized blister on my deck and it's directly under my black stripe in the Arizona sun.:kaioken:

HOWARD O
03-24-2009, 02:32 PM
Just what do they call that "putty" and where can you purchase it?

Ken

The pros here will correct me, but it's probably polyester putty, found at most any hardware store, autobody supply, marine hardware store.

VetteLT193
03-24-2009, 02:44 PM
that's how Sea Doo glues their PWC's together...

:outtahere:

Except Sea Doo fixes things under warranty when they break without making the customer pay :eek:

gcarter
03-24-2009, 03:20 PM
Here's a picture of Yeller's boat he sent me.
If you look closely at the putty on the foam, does it look like there's any plywood in there?


http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=44458&d=1237926028

CHACHI
03-24-2009, 03:41 PM
The pros here will correct me, but it's probably polyester putty, found at most any hardware store, autobody supply, marine hardware store.
Is this polyester putty a fancy name for bondo?

Ken

mike o
03-24-2009, 04:28 PM
Is this polyester putty a fancy name for bondo?

Ken:yes:, basically polyester resin and talc powder.

Carl C
03-24-2009, 04:34 PM
Looks like they are cementing it to the stringer. The foam wouldn't provide a viable mounting surface.

gcarter
03-24-2009, 05:25 PM
Looks like they are cementing it to the stringer. The foam wouldn't provide a viable mounting surface.
It's a combination of both. Obviously, the stringer itself wouldn't support the putty.

Carl C
03-24-2009, 07:11 PM
It's a combination of both. Obviously, the stringer itself wouldn't support the putty.

They're pretty generous with the stuff. It must be cheap. I removed about a ten pound blob from the front of the "coffin" alone!

gcarter
03-24-2009, 07:45 PM
No, it's not cheap.
If you were to buy it by the gallon, it would be $45.00-$75.00.
It looks to me like there's about 3-4 gallons there in all the different places.....5 places I think.

I still like my method better.

Mr X
03-24-2009, 07:47 PM
Looks like they are cementing it to the stringer. The foam wouldn't provide a viable mounting surface.
That is correct. The putty gets as hard as a rock and will crush the 2 LB foam in an instant if pressure from above is applied. The foam is floatation.
On the larger model Donzi's that do not require floatation foam, there is no foam.
The stringers and bulkheads do a fine job of supporting the putty on the ZR's and ZF's.

gcarter
03-24-2009, 08:42 PM
I guess what I said wasn't desciptive enough.
Even though the putty I use (Minicraft) is non sagging, IMHO, you wouldn't be able to pile that much of it on the edge of a stringer w/o it sagging off into the bilge before it set up.
So, what I should have said is the foam does provide some support for the putty until it gets hard.

gcarter
03-24-2009, 09:47 PM
i used to know a girl..... :outtahere: :outtahere:

lol!

Lenny
03-24-2009, 10:28 PM
Let's go back 40 years George, and the tubs were supported by a Roven "noodle".

I would NOT want to be the guy that had that job glassing the tub sides/bottom to the stringers... :(

But it worked.

You will probably find that the "putty" is made by Plexus. http://www.proboat-digital.com/proboat/200506/?pg=7

farmer tx
03-24-2009, 11:31 PM
Somebody explain to me how foam on the INSIDE of a hull adds floatation. Also are you sure the foam is dry all the way through. It looks like a bunch of sponge looking for moisture to soak up.

Ghost
03-24-2009, 11:50 PM
Somebody explain to me how foam on the INSIDE of a hull adds floatation. Also are you sure the foam is dry all the way through. It looks like a bunch of sponge looking for moisture to soak up.

I would think the notion is that the floatation foam requirements are in the event of hull compromise, capsize, or other flooding of the interior. Short of that, an intact hull itself provides the floatation simply by displacing water.

Now, to your second point, if the interior foam just soaks up water rather than displacing it, I would agree it is useless as floatation.

yeller
03-25-2009, 12:35 AM
Just wondering, whats with all the foam in the hull? Why move weight rearwards when you could dig all that foam out and end up with the same result.:smash:I doubt the foam is anywhere near the weight of fuel.

yeller
03-25-2009, 12:36 AM
And the putty is brittle and can break away ultimately leaving a gap between the floor and the top of the stringers leading to issues resulting from an unsupported tub.I don't know about that. I pounded the snot out of it with a hammer and couldn't break it. Had to cut it with a saw.

yeller
03-25-2009, 12:39 AM
If I were you I would consider the aft tank, I settled for an off the shelf 40 gallon but there is enough room for a few more gallons. PhilMOP do you remember the dimensions of your tank? I'm thinking my bulkheads might not be in the same spot as yours. Where did you get it from?

Mr X
03-25-2009, 05:17 AM
Somebody explain to me how foam on the INSIDE of a hull adds floatation. Also are you sure the foam is dry all the way through. It looks like a bunch of sponge looking for moisture to soak up.
In the event of the hull filling with water, it will not sink to the bottom. It will flounder.
The floatation foam is closed cell, and not "supposed" to absorb water like the older foams.
Also, the putty is NOT Plexus, it is totally different. It is Dexter.
Plexus is used to glue fiberglass together, like PCV cement.
Dexter is putty used as a filler in voids.

Mr X
03-25-2009, 05:37 AM
Definatly. For all the REQ's check this website out...good info!
It is not required on 20 feet in length or less......

http://www.uscgboating.org/safety/boatbuilder/flotation_landing.htm

P.S. your bottom line tag quote ROCK'S!
Think Nancy can even spell her own last name??

mike o
03-25-2009, 06:39 AM
Definitely. For all the REQ's check this website out...good info!
It is not required on 20 feet in length or less......

http://www.uscgboating.org/safety/boatbuilder/flotation_landing.htm

P.S. your bottom line tag quote ROCK'S!
Think Nancy can even spell her own last name??... Thats true, My little canoes do not have to float by the basic level flotation rule with my CC issued HIN. They can go right to the bottom........ But they don't cause.... my phone would ring from the dealer with the mad customer on the other end. And guess who would have to go get it. :eek: So we all foam them.

BigGrizzly
03-25-2009, 09:40 AM
Here is the bad part, even closed cell foam will eventually absorb moisture. This is why the Core of engineers require all new foam on docks be encapsulated. I have seen some pretty heavy closed cell foam flotation.:eek:

gcarter
03-25-2009, 12:11 PM
Back to floatation......
I think we often forget even full fuel tanks make pretty good floatation. The aluminum or poly fuel tank full of gasoline weighs quite a bit less than the water it would displace.
And how often are our tanks full???????

Trueser
03-25-2009, 01:19 PM
Back to floatation......
I think we often forget even full fuel tanks make pretty good floatation. The aluminum or poly fuel tank full of gasoline weighs quite a bit less than the water it would displace.
And how often are our tanks full???????

George,
The only problem is the vent sucks in water faster than you think.

gcarter
03-25-2009, 07:54 PM
George,
The only problem is the vent sucks in water faster than you think.

LOL!
maybe so, but I bet i could find some chewing gum or something to stop it up with. :biggrin.::yes::wrench:

BigGrizzly
03-26-2009, 07:38 AM
For hevens sake George, haven't you heard of duct tape. Just to stir the pot I beleive the ZX vent is in the gas cap.

yeller
04-03-2009, 12:23 PM
Here's something that I didn't expect. Turns out Donzi didn't relocate the entire stringer, but only the section in the bilge. Forward of the bilge, the stringers are probably located at the old width and appear to be bedded in the strake, as opposed to outboard of the strake (as in the bilge).

gcarter
04-03-2009, 11:11 PM
Here's something that I didn't expect. Turns out Donzi didn't relocate the entire stringer, but only the section in the bilge. Forward of the bilge, the stringers are probably located at the old width and appear to be bedded in the strake, as opposed to outboard of the strake (as in the bilge).

That's pretty interesting. Maybe some dimensions are in order.

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32589&d=1194379181

http://www.donzi.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32671&d=1194546320

RickSE
04-03-2009, 11:30 PM
Wow that's wierd, I'll have to crawl inside of mine now. I do know my front stringers are not doubled up like the rear, so mine may also be offset.

George and I determined that the must have also moved the inner strakes out on the newer boats so why would they offset the stringers? Maybe the front stringer spacing is related to the fuel tank width?? Seems crazy though.

yeller
04-04-2009, 03:18 AM
Rick, you're not going to be able to tell if yours are the same without removing the front panel. I'm not even sure if removal is possible with the deck in place.

George, are the measurements in the bottom pic taken from your boat? I'll measure mine this weekend.

gcarter
04-04-2009, 06:08 AM
Yes, my boat.
I think it probably has to do w/the fuel tank also.

Curiouser and curiouser! :yes:

Carl C
04-04-2009, 06:42 AM
That is interesting. Seeing those pics, I would think that the factory fix for the cracking hulls would be effective. I plan to find out this summer. Geez there's a lot of yeller in that boat. What did they do, dip the whole thing in yeller paint?:)

BigGrizzly
04-04-2009, 08:31 AM
Very interesting, I wonder if this could be related to the hull cracking. plus the inverted outer chine on the newer boats?

RickSE
04-04-2009, 11:08 AM
Rick, you're not going to be able to tell if yours are the same without removing the front panel. I'm not even sure if removal is possible with the deck in place...

Yes, I was just going to check the width up by the tank, I have a steel or alum. tank in mine though, not poly.

yeller
04-04-2009, 11:10 PM
I took some measurements to compare against the pics that were posted. Inner strakes are 30", outer strakes 48".
Bilge stringers are 29" apart and are about 1.5~1.75" thick.
Forward of the bilge, the stringers are 25" apart and are about 1.25" thick. The forward stringers are also 1.25" higher than the bilge stringers.
My bilge stringers being 1/2" further apart than Rick's is probably because his are thicker.

yeller
04-25-2009, 05:39 PM
My plans of reinforcing the outboard side of the stringers and adding a rear fuel tank are out the window. I have had very, very, little time to work on the boat since pulling the deck, so the new one is going on tomorrow. I just can not find the time to do as much work on it as I'd like, and seeing as there is a possibility we might have to move in June, the boat needs to be assembled pronto.

I was poking around today, checking all the hoses and wiring connections when I noticed my inlet water hose appeared to be kinked. Even with the deck off, it was tough to tell, so I removed it.

I don't know if this is a factory hose or not, but it's pretty pathetic that someone would install a straight hose and then bend it to fit.

gcarter
04-25-2009, 06:06 PM
Looks like it needs a wire reinforced hose.

yeller
04-27-2009, 12:36 AM
Dropped the new deck on today. The engine hoist and Lenny's idea for a deck brace works great. Easily installed it with only two people.

I cut the hole on the drivers side for the throttle/shifter and coaming box, then cut a hole on the port side for the 4x4 to slide into. I'm going to end up with an extra hole on the port side because of this, but it will be covered by the side panel so I'm not concerned about it.

This lifting point was further ahead than when we removed the deck, but it's still a bit back from the balancing point. Probably about 50lbs heavy on the front end.

Because I'm such an idiot, I always end up doing everything twice. :bonk: I mixed up a batch of putty for between the stringers and cockpit floor, but I mixed it too hot and it set before I could get the deck in place. Had to lift the deck up, chip the putty off, go to the store and pick up more, then try again. :nilly:

yeller
04-27-2009, 12:44 AM
I didn't have near as much time to work on the boat as I had hoped, so I couldn't do the mods I wanted to.

I am still going to add a "Carl Cabin" to the boat though. I cut the ski locker and foot rests out. I saved the foot rest sections as I am going to use them, but make them removable.

I also did a major, major, mod to the floor storage box. I insulated it with 2" of styrofoam so I no longer need to bring a cooler on board. :biggrin.:

BigGrizzly
04-27-2009, 09:03 AM
Good luck Yeller it will be worth it in the long run.

zelatore
04-27-2009, 09:52 AM
Ah, progress. I wish I was making some! Hopefully this weekend...:yes:

It's looking good. I'll be eager to see the 'Carl Cabin' in person as I think I'll do the same for mine someday.

Lenny
04-27-2009, 10:30 AM
OOOOPS, sorry I missed that. Just got back from Hawaii last night. :D

Hope all went well.

Carl C
04-27-2009, 12:57 PM
I am still going to add a "Carl Cabin" to the boat though. I cut the ski locker and foot rests out. I saved the foot rest sections as I am going to use them, but make them removable.
:biggrin.:

Now that there is funny. I will be famous, or maybe infamous, on this board for many years ;). I like your variation of hinging the floorboards and with your new and improved stowage area you can afford to turn the floor bin into a cooler. Very cool:cool:.

OK, back to the grind. Literally.

yeller
04-27-2009, 01:39 PM
OOOOPS, sorry I missed that. Just got back from Hawaii last night. :D

Hope all went well.Hawaii?...jeeez. You passed up an afternoon of beer in the alley for Hawaii. :rolleyes:


Carl, I am going to hinge them for easy access, but also make them easily removable so they are out of the way when I sleep in there.

.......and yes, I will use it occasionally to sleep in. I've already spent a couple weekends sleeping in the boat, so this mod will be a welcome (and more comfortable) change.

VetteLT193
04-27-2009, 03:39 PM
It looks great. You adding the Factory graphics back, or leaving it yellow?

Looks like a yellerRossa now... err, free translation "fa un farÃ* giallo"

Carl C
04-27-2009, 04:30 PM
I can sleep in mine too. I cut a piece of thick carpet pad to lay down over the carpet and then all you need are blankets and pillows. I also made a folding bug screen to cover the opening. I haven't used that yet. I'll post pics of it later. Only slept in it once and it was late in the season so no bugs. It is mainly stowage but overnighters are possible. Hold the Put-In-Bay wisecracks....:umbrella:

VetteLT193
04-27-2009, 04:40 PM
I can sleep in mine too. I cut a piece of thick carpet pad to lay down over the carpet and then all you need are blankets and pillows. I also made a folding bug screen to cover the opening. I haven't used that yet. I'll post pics of it later. Only slept in it once and it was late in the season so no bugs. It is mainly stowage but overnighters are possible. Hold the Put-In-Bay wisecracks....:umbrella:

I did far dumber things when I was single...

Sounds like fun to me, run the boat somewhere, party it up... pass out, wake up, run the boat somewhere... rinse and repeat.

Sweet Cheekz
04-27-2009, 04:41 PM
Because I'm such an idiot, I always end up doing everything twice. :bonk: I mixed up a batch of putty for between the stringers and cockpit floor, but I mixed it too hot and it set before I could get the deck in place. Had to lift the deck up, chip the putty off, go to the store and pick up more, then try again. :nilly:

This, as opposed to me not putting enough catalyst in my gelcoat Saturday in the bilge and storeage compartments then sat around the rest of a rainy crappy weekend with no ability to finish sanding and complete my bilge. Its always something:bonk:
Looking good
Parnell

Lenny
04-27-2009, 04:47 PM
This, as opposed to me not putting enough catalyst in my gelcoat Saturday in the bilge and storeage compartments then sat around the rest of a rainy crappy weekend with no ability to finish sanding and complete my bilge. Its always something:bonk:
Looking good
Parnell

Did you add "wax" (air-dry) to your Gel mix :confused: :confused: :confused:

Carl C
05-10-2009, 06:26 AM
Yeller, if you are going to sleep on your boat Don't forget about the bugs. The black flies will eat you up on the Great Lakes so I made this bug screen to be prepared. I haven't used it yet.

Trueser
05-10-2009, 06:54 AM
Carl,
Your speedo guage looks like it has a leak. The air bubble has grown.

Carl C
05-10-2009, 07:15 AM
Carl,
Your speedo guage looks like it has a leak. The air bubble has grown.

Yeah it was leaking but I think I have the leak stopped. You can't take these things apart and Livorsi wants a fortune to rebuild them so I ran a bead of epoxy around the bezel on the back. So far, so good:crossfing:.

yeller
05-10-2009, 10:54 AM
It looks great. You adding the Factory graphics back, or leaving it yellow?
Looks like a yellerRossa now... err, free translation "fa un farÃ* giallo"I'll be getting the factory graphics painted on.

Yeller, if you are going to sleep on your boat Don't forget about the bugs. The black flies will eat you up on the Great Lakes so I made this bug screen to be prepared. I haven't used it yet.Now that one cracks me up Carl. You think of everything. Bugs aren't too much of a problem where I go.

Carl C
05-10-2009, 11:00 AM
I'll be getting the factory graphics painted on.
Now that one cracks me up Carl. You think of everything. Bugs aren't too much of a problem where I go.

Mosquitos are horrible in Alaska, I figured you'd have them there too. It's a joke up there to call the mosquito the state bird!

Skeeters! :)

yeller
06-24-2009, 05:02 PM
Progress has been slow, but I am getting close to finishing. Hopefully I should be pretty much done this weekend.

In post #76 there are a couple of pics of the start of the "Carl's Cuddy". I've attached some pics of the project.

I first screwed a couple 1x4's to the stringers at the desired angle (and to support the floor). I wanted to keep it as light as possible so I used 3/8" plywood. Now 3/8 on it's own didn't seem strong enough where it was unsupported so I glued/screwed a couple hockey stick shafts to the underside for support (between the stringers). Now for those of you that haven't discovered the many uses for good old :canada: hockey sticks, the shafts are extremely light weight for the strength they provide. Outboard of the stringers I added pour foam for support.

Instead of hinging the foot rests as originally planned, I made a latching system similar to what is used on many bed frames. The finished product isn't exactly great craftsmanship, but since I've moved, I haven't wired my house in order to use my welders and shop equipment, so all I have to use are the basic hand tools. I bolted some angle iron to what's left of the ski locker to support the footrests on that side. On the open side of the footrests, I added a support rod. You can't see them in the pics but I am using these for the rod bases: http://www.acconmarine.com/p-63-401-quick-release.aspx. I took a router to the floor so they don't protrude above floor level.

yeller
06-24-2009, 05:06 PM
I then covered it with a light weight carpet and finished the rest of the area with hull liner. Like Carl, I also added a light.

MOP
06-24-2009, 05:09 PM
Hmm that ain't no Cuddy it is a "Nookie Notch":shocking: A very slick one!

yeller
06-24-2009, 05:27 PM
Installed all the gauges. I reversed the factory 'trim' and 'water pressure' gauge locations. That way I have the 3 most important gauges in the top row. I find it easier to quickly scan one horizontal row of gauges as opposed to looking across and up and down.

I located the 6 aftermarket gauges so the steering wheel has a minimal obstruction of view. Across the top is boost, fuel pressure, and EGT. The bottom row is boost/vacuum, depth, and tab indicator. I know two boost gauges sound stupid, but I like knowing where my vacuum level is. I got use to the combination gauge as it tells me how close I'm getting to boost. Problem with that gauge though, was the needle deflection when in boost is very small and difficult to read. I purchased a boost only gauge so it's easier to see what level I'm actually at. The aftermarket gauges use to be white, so I painted them silver to try and match the OEM ones. I had a very close match, but then I clear coated them and the color darkened significantly. Didn't feel like redoing them, so now they are what they are. Even as is, I like them better than when they were white. While I was at it, I painted my fire extingishers as well.

A couple small things was I mounted the switches in front of the coaming pad and I mounted the port coaming pad further forward so it is the same as the starboard one. Even though they are both the same size, for some reason Donzi mounts the port one several inches further aft. I also mounted the port grab handle on the pad.

yeller
06-24-2009, 05:34 PM
Final item (for now) is relocation of the ski tow hook. I'm trying to keep the deck as clean as possible, so I moved it to the transom. I remove two of the lifting ring bracket bolts and installed the hook in their place. I needed to elongate the holes slightly as the hook needed the holes closer together. I also had to do a small gel repair because the bolts were sealed with 5200 and they ripped some of the gel out on removal.

The mounting rods for the hook are a smaller size than the removed bolts, but that doesn't concern me because I am not installing the lifting rings. If someone was actually going to use the lifting rings, I wouldn't recommend swapping the bolts with a ski hook

gcarter
06-24-2009, 05:47 PM
Good going Yeller.

It's also good to finish a project.

BigGrizzly
06-24-2009, 05:57 PM
Ey, I like it a hole bunch.:yes::yes::yes:

yeller
06-24-2009, 05:58 PM
I forgot to mention, I bolted the deck/hull together at 6" spacings. Then I was standing around staring at the bag of factory screws I had originally removed and thought what the hell...and threw the screws in between the bolts. :boggled:
Reinstalling the white pvc part of the rub rail was easily the toughest part of this whole deck swap. Was that ever unexpected. It easily took 10hrs install. There are 3 sections. I installed the first two pieces, but when I installed the last piece, it ended up being 1" too short. Damn! Off they come. I had to get some larger screws and working my way from one end of the section to the other; about every 3', I had to drill and install the screws at a sharp angle to stretch the pvc as much as possible. I eventually removed all of the gap and once I got all the screws in, I could remove the oversized ones. What a PITA! Never, ever, expected the rub rail to cause me so much grief.

yeller
06-24-2009, 06:02 PM
Thanks guys. And George, you are right. It is good to complete a project. Hoping to splash it sometime next week, although I won't have the striping done. That looks as if it'll have to wait till the end of the summer.

fogducker III
06-24-2009, 06:02 PM
Final item (for now) is relocation of the ski tow hook. I'm trying to keep the deck as clean as possible, so I moved it to the transom. I remove two of the lifting ring bracket bolts and installed the hook in their place. I needed to elongate the holes slightly as the hook needed the holes closer together. I also had to do a small gel repair because the bolts were sealed with 5200 and they ripped some of the gel out on removal.

The mounting rods for the hook are a smaller size than the removed bolts, but that doesn't concern me because I am not installing the lifting rings. If someone was actually going to use the lifting rings, I wouldn't recommend swapping the bolts with a ski hook

If you are not using the lift eyes could I buy them from you?



Before I bought my boat the original owner, or somebody he had moving the boat, lifted the boat by the rings without a spreader, from the same "middle" lift point and it bent the bow and stern lift eyes at the base, it would be nice to replace them with straight ones........:garfield:

PS. Are you taking that very nice looking boat to Harrison??

yeller
06-24-2009, 06:05 PM
If you are not using the lift eyes could I buy them from you?

Before I bought my boat the original owner, or somebody he had moving the boat, lifted the boat by the rings without a spreader, from the same "middle" lift point and it bent the bow and stern lift eyes at the base, it would be nice to replace them with straight ones........:garfield:
Sorry Jeremy. Even though I'm not using them, and it probably doesn't make a lot of sense to most people to keep them, I really don't want to sell. I'm the same way with any car project I've done. Any of the original stuff I remove, I keep. That way I can reinstall anything if I want, and if I don't, then all of it goes to the next owner.

fogducker III
06-24-2009, 06:07 PM
Sorry Jeremy. Even though I'm not using them, and it probably doesn't make a lot of sense to most people to keep them, I really don't want to sell. I'm the same way with any car project I've done. Any of the original stuff I remove, I keep. Then all of it goes to the next owner.


No problem I totally understand, do let me know when you are splashing and I can meet you in Active Pass...........:yes::yes:

yeller
06-24-2009, 06:11 PM
PS. Are you taking that very nice looking boat to Harison?? For the poker run? No, the wife banned me from ever attending that run again. The run itself was great, but afterwards there was too much R rated stuff going on.

As far as just going to the lake, I don't have any plans to go there unless someone else I know is going. Too much good boating locally.

thriller
06-24-2009, 06:46 PM
Looks GREAT!@ Nice work..

Ghost
06-24-2009, 07:19 PM
...The run itself was great, but afterwards there was too much R rated stuff going on...

People would really like to judge these kind of things for themselves.

http://www.supernova19.com/forumcw/Smileys/classic/TTIWWP.gif (javascript:void(0);)

-Ed Meese

zelatore
06-24-2009, 07:59 PM
Sounds like you're nearly there. Excellent! I hope I get a chance to check it out - I'm especially interested in how your 'carl cabin' turned out as that's on my list of possible projects for next year.

Sweet Cheekz
06-24-2009, 08:15 PM
Looks great Well done!
Parnell