Political/legal question

[Ghost]

As mad as I am about the bonuses that got paid out after companies got bailed out by us, I saw where a new tax is being proposed to seize 90% of those bonuses. (Or are they quietly not saying that what their proposing won't get the bonuses back, closing the barn door after the horse has left? Anybody know?)

First big question is: if they are trying to get the bonuses back, isn't this ex-post-facto law, which is a direct violation of the Constitution? I'm not a lawyer, but it sure seems like it.

And it raises a second question: is the tax code for fiscal year X available for reading, and binding, before fiscal year X begins? If not, isn't that ex-post-facto law also?

For instance, if this is how Congress operates, what is to prevent a law taxing gun makers at 100%, passed on Dec 30 in year X, applying to year
X? So, someone could spend a whole year in an industry, only to be told after you finished, that they've decided to take all the money from that.

[txtaz]

It's a bunch of ranting and raving by politicians to say "look America, we are as outraged as you". In the end nothing will happen. They are just waiting for the ROAR to die down.

Da Taz

[ChromeGorilla]

I believe this is closing the barn door now so that future horsies won't get out.... Whats done is done.... aint no gettin that money back from the employees that have recieved it....

[Marlin275]

First big question is: if they are trying to get the bonuses back, isn't this ex-post-facto law, which is a direct violation of the Constitution? I'm not a lawyer, but it sure seems like it.

Republicans also said the legislation may be unconstitutional.
According to talking points distributed by House GOP conservatives,
the House bill might be a constitutionally prohibited "bill of attainder," or
legislation to punish a specific individual or group of individuals.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123745823318182841.html

[zelatore]

While I don't know the law regarding these things, when I heard it my thoughts were that it was a bunch of political posturing that would never come to vote, and that it probably wasn't legal anyway.

Even if they do deserve it.

I wonder if AIG couldn't have found a legal loophole for those bonuses if they had really wanted to...

[RedDog]

I feel the ex post facto taxation is unconstitutional.

That said I was PO'ed when I heard about the "bonuses"

And that said, I have learned a little more about it. It turns out these bonuses are for one division of AIG whose sole role is to close out their part of the company - sell off assets / loans. Once that is done, there job is gone. The retention bonuses were designed (contractual arrangements in advance) to keep them by providing incentives from moving on to other jobs before the close-down is finished.

The Dems and Obama admin knew about it from the get-go. Total political posturing now.

[handfulz28]

The House bill passed. But let's not forget Government 101, it still has to pass the Senate. I don't hear much wrangling from the Senate to rush this through. While some crackhead could argue there is precedent for backdating tax law given the current stimulus package includes a provision to extend tax loss carrybacks to 5 years instead of 2, it's unlikely it would hold up.

Idiots...ignorant freaking idiots. I can't believe Blarney Frank doesn't come up for re-election until '13. Has anybody else seen the video footage of the 3 MASS Reps going at Libby? Frank and Lynch need to be impeached for ignorance. :kaioken:

[BUIZILLA]

I truly hope we never cross this path of incompetence again... :mad:

[Just Say N20]

It turns out these bonuses are for one division of AIG whose sole role is to close out their part of the company - sell off assets / loans. Once that is done, there job is gone. The retention bonuses were designed (contractual arrangements in advance) to keep them by providing incentives from moving on to other jobs before the close-down is finished.
The Dems and Obama admin knew about it from the get-go. Total political posturing now.

Thank you. These people knew they were going to be let go as soon as their job was done, so they were offered an incentive to stay until the task was completed, rather than quit to go look for other work.

Obama knew this well in advance, and INSISTED that these bonuses be paid, knowing they were going to receive bailout money.

Listening to Chucky Schumer make his little speech about how these people should give the money back, or they were going to get it back by putting in place a law that would tax all the money back with a specific 100% tax, got me more angry than I have been in a long time. Ditto with that absolute moron Barney Frank ranting about how "We are the owners of these businesses and we are going to tell them what they are going to do."

Both of these guys should be in jail for what they created with the mortgage scandal, but instead they are strutting around Washington like they are kings. Who do they think they are?!?

And tonight BO is going to be on the Tonight Show, as a sitting president. What a douche bag.

[Just Say N20]

"But as long as the nation is obsessed with historic milestones, is no one going to remark on what a great country it is where a mentally retarded woman can become speaker of the house?"

Ann Coulter, 2/25/2009:

I love your tag line!

[f_inscreenname]

As much as everyone thinks it is the IRS is not a weapon to be used against us citizens.
But the main issue is here that a lot of the news channels are not reporting is the most of the bonus getters are not US citizens.

[f_inscreenname]

On a side note (sorry G just didn’t want to stat another political topic on a clearly post “no politics” board :yes:) what about this?
AIG is now up to 170+ billion in bail out money and in the news everyday. What has GM and Chrysler got so far? Not even close. I don’t know about you all but I have never driven a AIG. GM and Chrysler need to live on. We cant buy every car from other countries. And Ford being alone will have to be broken up due to being a monopoly with this congress. :wink: They do have to be fixed but not disappear. I can get insurance from state farm. I don’t think I will be putting a Honda motor in the SuperNova any time soon.
Just my opinion.

[Donzi Vol]

And tonight BO is going to be on the Tonight Show, as a sitting president. What a douche bag.

A buddy of mine and I were commenting on that just a moment ago. Because after all, everybody needs a president who is a celebrity! (and I'm sure there's nothing else he could be doing other than a talk show...ahem)

And as for the bonuses, it's like a couple of you have said...it was known before the money was given out. I'm just as angry as anybody about it, BUT if there were going to be stipulations on how the money were to be spent, then they should have been written into the legislation to start with.

[f_inscreenname]

Oh and back to the subject. What’s going to stop them from doing it? The mortgage cram down will be coming to a court house near you soon. They are going to allow judges to rewrite contracts between privet citizens to their will.
"I like you, you get a 2% loan." "Thank you Your Majesty.....http://www.supernova19.com/forumcw/Smileys/classic/clueless.gif…. Honor."

[HOWARD O]

A bill of attainder (also known as an act or writ of attainder) is an act of legislature declaring a person or group of persons guilty of some crime and punishing them without benefit of a trial. Bills of attainder are forbidden by Article I, section 9, clause 3 of the United States Constitution.

This is nothing less than legislators using the law as a method of tyranny. Any legislator that voted for this must be removed from office. And FWIW, they weren't all democrats either. :mad:

[Just Say N20]

This idiocy must be contagious! My brother sent me this e-mail that he had received.

What really pisses me off, is this Republican is advocating the same thing as the democrats. He should have sent out a letter presenting the facts of the situation, and then explained why he WASN’T advocating a Socialist Governmental action like the Democrats are trying to ram through. I think ALL OF THEM should be voted out of office the next time they are up for re-election. They are all either moronically stupid, or horrifically corrupt.

If we weren't living through this situation, I wouldn't have believed this.

I am pasting the "ad" and no, I am not advocating signing their petition. As a matter of fact, it took a great deal of discipline to not go through it, line by line and destroy it.

[Ghost]

RE: voting them ALL out:

Good point. I can name two worth keeping: Ron Paul and Roscoe Bartlett. Not sure about ANY others. Suggestions welcome.