Doesn't This Take The Cake

[DonziJon]

The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes for Treatment.

WASHINGTON, March 16 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The leader of the nation's largest veterans organization says he is "deeply disappointed and concerned" after a meeting with President Obama today to discuss a proposal to force private insurance companies to pay for the treatment of military veterans who have suffered service-connected disabilities and injuries. The Obama administration recently revealed a plan to require private insurance carriers to reimburse the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) in such cases.


"It became apparent during our discussion today that the President intends to move forward with this unreasonable plan," said Commander David K. Rehbein of The American Legion. "He says he is looking to generate $540-million by this method, but refused to hear arguments about the moral and government-avowed obligations that would be compromised by it."


The Commander, clearly angered as he emerged from the session said, "This reimbursement plan would be inconsistent with the mandate ' to care for him who shall have borne the battle' given that the United States government sent members of the armed forces into harm's way, and not private insurance companies. I say again that The American Legion does not and will not support any plan that seeks to bill a veteran for treatment of a service connected disability at the very agency that was created to treat the unique need of America's veterans!"


Commander Rehbein was among a group of senior officials from veterans service organizations joining the President, White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emmanuel, Secretary of Veterans Affairs Eric Shinseki and Steven Kosiak, the overseer of defense spending at the Office of Management and Budget (OMB). The group's early afternoon conversation at The White House was precipitated by a letter of protest presented to the President earlier this month. The letter, co-signed by Commander Rehbein and the heads of ten colleague organizations, read, in part, " There is simply no logical explanation for billing a veteran's personal insurance for care that the VA has a responsibility to provide. While we understand the fiscal difficulties this country faces right now, placing the burden of those fiscal problems on the men and women who have already sacrificed a great deal for this country is unconscionable."


Commander Rehbein reiterated points made last week in testimony to both House and Senate Veterans' Affairs Committees. It was stated then that The American Legion believes that the reimbursement plan would be inconsistent with the mandate that VA treat service-connected injuries and disabilities given that the United States government sends members of the armed forces into harm's way, and not private insurance companies. The proposed requirement for these companies to reimburse the VA would not only be unfair, says the Legion, but would have an adverse impact on service-connected disabled veterans and their families. The Legion argues that, depending on the severity of the medical conditions involved, maximum insurance coverage limits could be reached through treatment of the veteran's condition alone. That would leave the rest of the family without health care benefits. The Legion also points out that many health insurance companies require deductibles to be paid before any benefits are covered. Additionally, the Legion is concerned that private insurance premiums would be elevated to cover service-connected disabled veterans and their families, especially if the veterans are self-employed or employed in small businesses unable to negotiate more favorable across-the-board insurance policy pricing. The American Legion also believes that some employers, especially small businesses, would be reluctant to hire veterans with service-connected disabilities due to the negative impact their employment might have on obtaining and financing company health care benefits.


"I got the distinct impression that the only hope of this plan not being enacted," said Commander Rehbein, "is for an alternative plan to be developed that would generate the desired $540-million in revenue. The American Legion has long advocated for Medicare reimbursement to VA for the treatment of veterans. This, we believe, would more easily meet the President's financial goal. We will present that idea in an anticipated conference call with White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emmanuel in the near future.


"I only hope the administration will really listen to us then. This matter has far more serious ramifications than the President is imagining," concluded the Commander.


SOURCE The American Legion


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[HOWARD O]

I wake to the radio in the morning and I thought I had heard something about this, but I chalked it up to not being awake yet and hearing it incorrectly.

If this is true, I just don't know what to say.....leaves me completely speechless. This would be wrong on so many fronts I just don't know where to start first! Well, I know where to start, how about our VETERANS??? OMG, this can't be right...... :kaioken:

[fogducker III]

Similar to Lenny, I try and stay out of US politics, this is just an observation:

IF somebody is paying private insurance premiums to private companies for medical insurance for veterans, when is this coverage redemmed?

There must be some sort of basis for the government to be considering this option, not saying anything is wrong or right, just that I would hate to see yet another insurance company get something for nothing....cough...AIG...cough........:rolleyes:

[CJmike]

Being a veteran I can't believe this plan is even on the table. It boggles the mind.

[zelatore]

I too suspect there is something we didn't hear. I don't see how anybody could justify having a veteran (via his private insurance) pay for his own treatment for an injury sustained while serving. That just goes against everything we believe in regarding military service.

I'm sure there are people who 'work the system' to get more out of the VA than they deserve, but far, far more are getting less than they deserve. If there is one debt the country needs to stand up for, it's taking care of is veterans.

Has anybody heard a rebuttal argument?

[ChromeGorilla]

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

And zelatore is right far more get less than they are due vs those who get more than their share.....

I knew this mother f'r was no good for this country.


I tell everyone I know that has lost a job/ laid off lately to keep paying their bills but write on their checks instead of a dollar amount write "Hope" or "Change"...... cuz thats what Obama has for everybody Hope and Change... not much else...

[DonziJon]

Pretty Quiet here so I'll add this: Here's the deal as far as I understand it....for those of you who have no particular interest in anything Military. I served in the US Navy for 9 years back in the sixties. I never was in a combat zone. Never got any combat injuries so never tried to collect.

Today..same as before: If you were in the Military and received injuries as a result of Military Service....Combat or otherwise, after you got out, you went to the VA for treatment of those related injuries. Quite often the service was less than perfect. However, we Military are NOT Whiners. We took what was offered.

Now if you got a Cold or the Flu..or cut your finger in your table saw ..you used your civilian medical insurance provided by yourself or your employer. That Simple. Military Retirees got VA privilages for life if they wanted it. I did not Retire so my VA Benifits are MUCH less..if any, when it comes to medical coverage after leaving the Military.

Chromy did a better job of describing MY sentiments than I did. John

[zelatore]

Not to totally hijack this thread, but I figure a lot of military/ex-military types will be reading this.

What would you think of compulsory military service for EVERYBODY? Say from 18 to 21 every kid had to do a stint? Or if you didn't want to be that hard-core, maybe you could have some sort of community service option for those who had a disability or religious problems.

I know I carry a Liberal tag, at least on this board, but I'd be willing to vote for this. Easy to say now that I'm closer to 40 than 20, but I really think it would do a lot of good for kids and maybe make them into more responsible adults. And when it came time to vote on any sort of military bill or action, you can bet people would really stop to think about it either because they or somebody in their family was serving, or just because they'd have a better understanding of exactly what they were putting on the line when they decided to attack Country XYZ.

Would I have been sweating bullets at age 17 if we had a law like this? You bet! But I still think it would be good for the country over all.

I've spoke with some Israeli friends who've been through exactly this situation, and although they don't all agree this is the right thing for the US they do find the idea interesting.

Back on topic, do I understand correctly that as a retired vet you have full VA benefits for any service related injuries, but now they want to bill your personal insurance (i.e. make you pay for) for services received through the VA? That just doesn't sit right. If a vet has outside insurance and wants to use it to look after care above and beyond what the VA offers, that's fine. But if you bill their insurance for care that we've already contractually offered them for free through the VA I don't see how the insurance co's won't raise the rates for vets. And even though I HATE insurance companies, frankly this isn't their problem!

[ChromeGorilla]

It's funny you brought up the compulsory service thing. A fella that works for me has lived in Singapore his whole life. They have compulsory service like you mentioned and if you can't/aren't fit for military there are civil service options as well.

We were talking about it a few weeks ago. I personnaly don't think it is a good fit in the US. I think the fact that our armed forces are made up of volunteers is a special thing. Unfotunately it's not treated as special a thing as I think it should be.....

CG

[gcarter]

After spending a total of about 4 months in Bolivia, S.A. in the early '80's, after coming back, I was all for mandatory service just so kids would learn to appreciate this country.
But I was just angry at the total ignorance of young people (and a bunch of Liberal old hippies too) concerning the liberties of the US and how precious they are. I thought it would help to have an investment in service to the country.
I believe in defending the whole idea of the US and the uniqueness of the Constitution.
If necessary, I believe in having wars using the full force available to us against anyone who would want to change it.
We are unique in all the world, and to people who haven't been out of the country except to tourist destinations don't understand how the rest of the world operates and how any degredations of our rights and freedoms makes us more like them (the rest of the world).

[HOWARD O]

I have always regretted not joining the service in my "yute". I know I would've been a far more responsible citizen if I had. When I was in my mid and late teens, heck even into my mid-20's, a goodly number of judges would've done me a favor if they gave me that "choice". :rolleyes:

Don, you make some great arguments for mandatory service and it's tough to argue against them. By the same token, I agree with Chrome that being an all volunteer force is special too. But that is not why I would side against it. I just believe that there are many that just don't belong in the service and I wouldn't want them there, frankly. At least not in this day and age. I think it would degrade our armed forces to a degree and make it less "elite".

Now, how about women in combat? :uzi: :smileybo:

[Ghost]

I hear where you're coming from, but I gotta say I think compulsory military service (except in times of war when Congress votes to declare war), is a bad idea overall. ANY compulsory service is a bad idea.

Likewise, entitlements are a bad idea. Real freedom means your government cannot routinely compel you to any work or service, nor may it seize large amounts of your wealth and hand them out to others.

Real freedom, and real respect for the natural and Constitutional rights of the individual, are what we need, and the rest would fall into line.

[ChromeGorilla]

Likewise, entitlements are a bad idea. Real freedom means your government cannot routinely compel you to any work or service, nor may it seize large amounts of your wealth and hand them out to others.

Real freedom, and real respect for the natural and Constitutional rights of the individual, are what we need, and the rest would fall into line.


Very very nicely said Ghost. That about sums it all up.

[zelatore]

I hear where you're coming from, but I gotta say I think compulsory military service (except in times of war when Congress votes to declare war), is a bad idea overall. ANY compulsory service is a bad idea.

Likewise, entitlements are a bad idea. Real freedom means your government cannot routinely compel you to any work or service, nor may it seize large amounts of your wealth and hand them out to others.

Real freedom, and real respect for the natural and Constitutional rights of the individual, are what we need, and the rest would fall into line.

Well, I can't really argue with that from a fundamental view of the Constitution. (well I guess I could argue, I'd just loose)

Back on point, any more details of how this plan to bill insurance for VA visits would work?

[DonziJon]

On a couple of ocassions, a few years ago Barney Fwank proposed bringing back the Draft. I was never able to figure out what his point was for doing so. He's always been a friend of our men in uniform. :yes: John

[Ghost]

The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes for Treatment....

This is so bizarre that I don't think I even understand what is being proposed.

[HOWARD O]

What is being proposed, looks like to me, is trying to help balance the budget on the backs of our wounded veterans. This will never fly and it's just another example of not only the inexperience of this guy, but also proves that he doesn't, and never once had, any respect for the military at all. He simply has no use for them. In his eyes, the military is made up of poor blacks and white trash.

So what, every veteran, inactive duty, military retirees, etc. etc. are going to soon be uninsurable if this plan goes into place? All this for what, $540 mil? That's a joke....he and his man-wife will spend that on parties before the end of the year.

They really need to cool it with this crap or there will be some kind of revolt. :yes:

[Ghost]

Yep, I'm with you on that.

[DonziJon]

One of the guys my wife works with is a Military Retiree and says this: He had TRICARE Prime (about $400 a year). Once he turned 65, he has to have Medicare (about $400 a quarter). He also now has TRICARE for life. What Medicare doesn't cover, TRICARE for Life picks up (Co pays, etc).

He also now works for a Defense Contractor and most likely he gets medical coverage from his employer as part of his employment. I don't know if he would have to contribute to that or not. John

[zelatore]

Some questions/observations.

First, can somebody please see if I’ve got this right about how the system currently works-

As an active duty member of the military you have coverage for yourself for any injury sustained ‘on the job’. Right? I assume this is ‘full’ coverage; i.e. 100% coverage at no cost?

Does this cover medical needs from your civilian life? For example, an active duty serviceman is hurt working on his house at home or gets sick. Does his military coverage still cover him? And at what %?

If you leave the service before reaching full retirement benefits, what protection is extended through the VA? Does your medical coverage only extend to cover injuries sustained while a member, or does it continue to cover you for new injuries/illnesses that occur while a civilian?

From an earlier post, it sounds like after you reach retirement, you get continuing full coverage as a civilian from the VA, correct?

Depending on the answers to these questions, I can take this insurance/VA proposal a couple of different ways. I’ll wait to see what those who know about these things have to say first.

[DonziJon]

Some questions/observations.

As an active duty member of the military you have coverage for yourself for any injury sustained ‘on the job’. Right? I assume this is ‘full’ coverage; i.e. 100% coverage at no cost?
.

As Active Duty Military, you and your immediate family, wife, children, etc. have FULL medical coverage no matter how you were injured. Car crash, falling off your roof, or just got sick. You have FULL medical coverage for everything.

In Newport, RI we have a Naval Base, and.. a good size Naval Hospital on base. Depending on the circumstances,..a patient may be treated at the Naval Hospital, OR sent to the local civilian hospital OFF base. It depends on the expertise required for the treatment. As often as not the Military patient might be operated on at the civilian hospital off base, with NAVY doctors doing the work. Whatever works best at the time.

We know quite a few retired military and from what I know, all the ones we know, go either to the Naval Hospital or to Newport Hospital. (civ) The retired fellow who I mentioned in an earlier post happens to have the same civilian Family Care Doctor that I do. The civilian doctor just refers you to wherever you wish to go. :wink: John

[zelatore]

OK, so it looks like there would be no reason for an active duty member or his family to have any additional insurance.

That being the case, it looks like this proposal wouldn't have any effect on active duty personnel.

So what happens after you leave the service? From your earlier comments it looks like that depends on when you leave - stay in until retirement and you and your family still get full coverage?

[DonziJon]

OK, so it looks like there would be no reason for an active duty member or his family to have any additional insurance.
That being the case, it looks like this proposal wouldn't have any effect on active duty personnel.

So what happens after you leave the service? From your earlier comments it looks like that depends on when you leave - stay in until retirement and you and your family still get full coverage?

I left the service after 9 years active. Other than 4 years of College on the "GI Bill" back in 1969-73,.. They paid the Whole Thing. I never asked for VA benefits.. don't even know if I would have been qualified. I was young and bullet proof then anyhow..didn't need anything.

I really don't know but I've always wondered if I became destitute in my Old Age if I would qualify to be admitted to The Rhode Island Veterans Home. At the current rate of depreciation of my retirement Fund, I'll be there in 14 months. OH: I think I'm qualified to be buried in the RI Veterans Cemetery. Maybe I should check on that. :wink:

Retired Military?.See earlier post. John

PS: Chromy might know about Current Rules for the VA and the latest GI Bill. I don't think it's as good as it was when I got out.

[ChromeGorilla]

I did 9 years as well before I decided to seperate. As I have no service related injuries/conditions I get no medical from the VA.

The GI bill/college fund which I have is actually quite good IMO. If you sign up for the GI bill they will withold $100 from your first 12 paychecks you recieve from the military. In return you then have $15,000 to use towards and accredited college/ professional apprenticeships / or trade schools. Anything educational basically... hell I could go to Mercury mechanic certification courses if I wanted to. This can be used while active duty or after you leave the service.

Also, depending on your job in the military they often offer cash enlistment bonuses. they offer to some candidates, as they did me, the chance to forgo the cash bonus in exchange for the Navy College Fund. Which adds an additional 15,000 to the original GI bill for a total of $30,000.

A friend of mine went to lineman school and used his GI/college fund to pay for it. Then after graduating even though he was an apprentice for 2 years, the GI bill was still paid out to supplenment his income until he was a full fledged lineman.

Also when I was serving, the Navy would reimbuse 75% of tuition for any active duty service member and that changed to 100% while I was in as well.

The amounts I believe have gone up slightly...if I remember correctly.

I was contemplating going to school and actually finishing the degreeI somewhat started.... but when it comes down to it, if I did, I don't forsee my income benefitting from it anytime soon. My income STOMPS the mechanical/structural engineers/field engineers who work out there with me. Not even close. Now, the project managers and senior engineers who have been around a long time.... then it's a slightly different story. So I guess I'll just keep school in my back pocket for now.....

CG

[HOWARD O]

Don, I don't understand it at all......but I am taking from all of this that if that plan were to go into effect, an injured, discharged vet that is need of ongoing medical attention that are a direct result of his wounds while in the service, would be responsible for the costs.

Is this right? If that's the case, I won't stand for that and neither should any other American in my opinion.

[ChromeGorilla]

Don, I don't understand it at all......but I am taking from all of this that if that plan were to go into effect, an injured, discharged vet that is need of ongoing medical attention that are a direct result of his wounds while in the service, would be responsible for the costs.
Is this right? If that's the case, I won't stand for that and neither should any other American in my opinion.


Thats wthe way I take it as well. And your right.

[Ghost]

In addition to everything else, whatever it means, it represents 540 million that the government is trying to scam in a new, hidden tax. All this when they are printing trillions and just borrowed about another trillion, best I can tell. (I think it will be all printing from here, as people worldwide are not likely to lend us any more.) California already can't pay tax refunds, and I think Kansas can't either.

Not an expert, but I would encourage everyone to get rid of any treasury bills you hold, and look to other ways to store wealth besides dollars. This government is going to default on a lot of creditors.

They have no shame, and no conscience. This is going to get ugly. Hope we have an election in 2010...

[DonziJon]

I'm thinking that if someone (Military) is injured in Combat for instance, with BIG injurys that will take some time (and money) to resolve, that that service member will be Retained in the military as long as required to stabilize...ie..it's not going to get any better than it is. They are not going to Dump the veteran in the street.

I suspect he could also separate himself from service, at the end of his enlistment if he desired.... however that would seem to me to be a RASH decission if he still needs treatment. John

[zelatore]

Don, I don't understand it at all......but I am taking from all of this that if that plan were to go into effect, an injured, discharged vet that is need of ongoing medical attention that are a direct result of his wounds while in the service, would be responsible for the costs.
Is this right? If that's the case, I won't stand for that and neither should any other American in my opinion.

I don't understand it either. My questions above were to try to establish exactly what a discharged serviceman has currently so I can then understand what the new proposal would change.

Basically I'm guessing they are looking at it sort of like when you have dual insurance coverage. Say Bob works at the mine and is full union with really good health care benefits. His wife Paula is on his insurance through the company because they get such a smokin' deal thanks to his seniority with the union. She also works, and has her primary insurance though her employer since they offer a program as part of her compensation.

If Paula has a medical claim, she would file first on her insurance, and any bills left over they didn't cover she could then claim on Bob's policy. But her employer policy is her primary coverage.

The way I understand things with the VA currently, a vet has a basic coverage through the VA after discharge. He may also choose to have additional coverage beyond that through a civilian insurance agency. His VA benefits are seen as his primary coverage, so any claims would be covered there first and anything beyond that he would then claim on his private insurance. Sound about right?

It sounds like the new proposal would basically reverse the priority of those two coverages, so services done at the VA would be billed to his personal insurance.

Of course the insurance co's won't like this and would raise rates for ex-military - assuming they are giving them some sort of discount vs standard rates currently because ex-military are getting most of their health care funded through the VA. And knowing insurance companies, I'd bet they don't cut military any deal. They are among the worst of all industries.

There's still a lot I don't understand about this. If I get a chance I'll see if I can dig up some specific details about how things are currently and what they would be under the new proposal.

[ChromeGorilla]

The way I understand things with the VA currently, a vet has a basic coverage through the VA after discharge. .


Not really. A veteran does not have basic coverage after seperating. A veteran only has coverage of a service related injury or condition after they discharged. I am a veteran and I do not get any coverage.

A retiree has basic coverage after they retire.

Just tryin to help clear things up. I think veteran and retiree are often mixed up.

[Ghost]

Thanks ChromeG, that helps a lot actually.


Some potential unintended (or at least, unpromoted) consequences of the proposal include:

making it very hard for injured vets get hired anywhere
driving up premiums for everyone else
abrogating responsibility to actually ensure that real treatment is available for the veterans. Shrink VA, and the care it is capable of providing (types of care, not just quantity of care) will shrink. Nobody in private health covers what's wrong, eh, tough luck.
Frankly, I hope the Big Government crooks are actually foolish enough to pi$$ off the veterans and the active military. It will do some good in showing their real stripes and pay some dividends down the road. They're willing to steal from the taxpayer to pay 100 cents on the dollar to cover those who made risky bets, rather than let them take their lumps, but not willing to take care of veterans who shed their blood for this country. Amazing. Christ, just the bonuses they quietly let slip out on bailout money from Chris Dodd's inserted verbiage in one bill would more than cover 540 million for the first year.

Can you imagine what this would mean? Frankly, they pass it, and it is a breach of their contract with the volunteer army. Does that mean you can up and leave your post in Iraq or Afghanistan? Say, 'hey, no insurance, no way I take a chance on getting hurt', and just make your way home. Seems fair to me for them to desert if we let the crooks do this to their guarantee of lifelong care for injuries in service.

The crooks can break that contract, but can't possibly break the contracts that got the big bonuses paid to folks at companies that gave hundreds of thousands to Dodd, Obama, and others.

[dfunde01]

Gentleman, remember that nothing is as it first appears with our new President. The other shoe will drop. One of the justified complaints that our retired military have is that the VA health care is substandard in any case. Wait until the Obama speech where he raises the point that if we had free national health care the issue would be solved for everyone and the military would receive the same wonderful treatment that every citizen will enjoy.

Remember his formula. Find a crisis, exploit it, and then solve it with bigger government.

[DonziJon]

This has been an interesting conversation. I don't have all the answers. What I have contributed here is always open to debate. It's nice to ignore the Political aspect of such things when it's convenient. No Pain.

So let's get back to SIMPLE. Bill Clinton has said: "I LOATH THE MILITARY". I think that pretty much sums up the Liberal attitude toward the Military..........Since Woodstock...Anybody here today remember that? I think it was in 1969. I was in College then.....as a Veteran. John

[gcarter]

Aparently it's dead.

[HOWARD O]

For a minute, I thought we were really in dire straits....well, never fear folks! Obama called in the heavyweight advisors and all is going to be okey dokey! Here's one that was spotted leaving the West Wing today! :yes:



http://d.yimg.com/a/p/rids/20090318/i/r2538205770.jpg

[DonziJon]

For a minute, I thought we were really in dire straits....well, never fear folks! Obama called in the heavyweight advisors and all is going to be okey dokey! Here's one that was spotted leaving the West Wing today! :yes:
http://d.yimg.com/a/p/rids/20090318/i/r2538205770.jpg

HOW..EE.. You're getting political again. :biggrin::biggrin: I think the guy in the picture just has a Sinus Condition. :yes: John

[Ghost]

Gentleman, remember that nothing is as it first appears with our new President. The other shoe will drop. One of the justified complaints that our retired military have is that the VA health care is substandard in any case. Wait until the Obama speech where he raises the point that if we had free national health care the issue would be solved for everyone and the military would receive the same wonderful treatment that every citizen will enjoy.

Remember his formula. Find a crisis, exploit it, and then solve it with bigger government.

I suspect you're dead on with this one.

[HOWARD O]

HOW..EE.. You're getting political again. :biggrin::biggrin: I think the guy in the picture just has a Sinus Condition. :yes: John
What? Did you detect some kind of sarcasm in my post? :rolleyes:
By the way, he was picking his nose and missed. You really don't want to see him try and eat a bowl of soup. :drool:


This guy was irrelevant BEFORE he left office. We could use a good dose of Ronald Reagan about now, IMO.

[HOWARD O]

Gentleman, remember that nothing is as it first appears with our new President. The other shoe will drop. One of the justified complaints that our retired military have is that the VA health care is substandard in any case. Wait until the Obama speech where he raises the point that if we had free national health care the issue would be solved for everyone and the military would receive the same wonderful treatment that every citizen will enjoy.
Remember his formula. Find a crisis, exploit it, and then solve it with bigger government.

I agree too, you've got the formula down pat.

[dfunde01]

Look up Alan Keyes on Obama on youtube.

[HOWARD O]

Well, it didn't fly and my, that was quick. I guess they put their collective fingers in the air and decided against it. Wonder how long before they try this again? Wonder what they are going to do to recoup this forecasted 500 mil?

I'm just going out of my head about this stuff and I wonder when it ceases to be just "political talk" when your whole Country is getting flushed down the toilet?

http://www.hawaiifreepress.com/main/ArticlesMain/tabid/56/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/531/White-House-drops-plan-to-bill-disabled-veterans-for-care.aspx

[HOWARD O]

Look up Alan Keyes on Obama on youtube.

I did, thank you. I believe that Alan Keyes is exactly right about everything he says here. Our Country has gone absolutely mad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqkMfToY9Pk

[ChromeGorilla]

Well... I'm sure when BO's people dipped their toe in the water with this one and it came out with nothing but bone he decided to drop this "idea" pretty quick.... :yes:

Good article...check it out.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/03/18/obama-drops-controversial-health-care-plan-wounded-veterans/

[Ghost]

Keyes is right again.

[DonziJon]

What? Did you detect some kind of sarcasm in my post? :rolleyes:
By the way, he was picking his nose and missed. You really don't want to see him try and eat a bowl of soup. :drool:
This guy was irrelevant BEFORE he left office. We could use a good dose of Ronald Reagan about now, IMO.

I REMEMBER the Look on his face on election night when someone told him he had WON. It was a look of Horror and Dis-belief....followed by a look ....OMG: What Do I Do Now :biggrin.::biggrin.: John