new sutphen

[mattyboy]

well turns out one of the partners in this new venture doesn't live all that far from me , got to meet him really great guy, this unrigged hull will be going to a show in middletown ny next weekend think i am going to have to stop by and say hello, boat looks great very nice fit and finish the deck is very smooth
i like it

[lars]

Saw that they got a nice web-site going. It's amazing how many large famous custom boat manufacturers comparably who spends thousands of hours on developing their boats and a million dollars or more, but won't get a professional to do a decent web-site for their company. A friend of mine brought a couple of Sutphens west to California over the years and the last one, a 26' Rumrunner, shifted ownership to another of my boating buddies. Hope these new ones will be of as good quality as the old ones, fantastic riding boats. Here's the link to their web-site with a nice video even. Including a few shoots of my friend's Rumrunner even though photo quality is not that great.
http://www.sutphenboats.com/sutphenvideo.htm

[mattyboy]

the new 21 is a 70 mph gps boat with the 300 hp 350 mag setup the bottom reminds me very much of the legendary challenger 21 or shadow from what i have seen they are very nice boats there is a 27 in the works as well

will see if i can swing by the middletown show and get a few good pics

[CHACHI]

Isn't one of the partners in the Stuphen venture the same guy who has the 28 Pantera that Dr. Dan is romancing?

Ken

[lars]

Isn't one of the partners in the Stuphen venture the same guy who has the 28 Pantera that Dr. Dan is romancing?
Ken
Rich Sutphen Jr. is building the boats down in Cape Coral, FL (Sutphen Powerboats). His distributors are Ron Lombard (Milford, CT) and Morgan Haak (Middletown, Long Island, NY), who formed Sutphen Performance Group. They showed at Miami and here's a couple of shots of the 21 SS O/B.
P.S. Great 4 page article about Sutphen family's boatbuilding history throughout three generations in the latest issue of Performance Boats Lake Edition. Best of luck to Rich Jr. with family. D.S. :wink:

[CMC319]

I worked the Sutphen booth in Miami with Morgan and crew. We had ALOT of interest from big boat owners who want something small to buzz around in, and not have to spend a half a day to clean it after they are done. The guys that are restoring the little Cigs also realize that you can get one of Rich's boats with 100 % vinylester resin for alot less than it will cost to restore an old boat. Lets just say that alot of the heavy hitters were really impressed !!!!
I will be working the Sutphen Booth on Saturday @ Middletown and there will be 2 boats there. If anyone is going, stop by and say hello.

[chappy]

I worked the Sutphen booth in Miami with Morgan and crew. We had ALOT of interest from big boat owners who want something small to buzz around in, and not have to spend a half a day to clean it after they are done. The guys that are restoring the little Cigs also realize that you can get one of Rich's boats with 100 % vinylester resin for alot less than it will cost to restore an old boat. Lets just say that alot of the heavy hitters were really impressed !!!!
I will be working the Sutphen Booth on Saturday @ Middletown and there will be 2 boats there. If anyone is going, stop by and say hello.

http://www.rocklandexpo.com/boat-show-exposition.htm

Here's the link with the show information. Only 60 miles away, I may shoot over Saturday AM..........:drive:

Would really like to see the Sutphens close up.

[mattyboy]

cmc

not sure if i will be there sat or sunday but definetly want to stop by a say hello .

I met Morgan last weekend real nice guy , he said he might bring a boat down to greenwood lake this summer i told him i see if i can get some people together for a little fun run.
wishing you guys luck i like the boats

[CMC319]

There is a good chance we will be showing up at alot of events this year. Isn't there a big Donzi event in Kentucky every year ???? What about a big weekend at Lk. George ??? Stay Tuned !!!

[mattyboy]

AOTH is in may check the event section here for details

the lake george donzi classic club runs 2 events a year the first is the dustoff in June which the club pays tribute to the donzi classic with a judged boat show for restored ,customized and original donzi classics and poker run for donzi classics only . the second event we welcome every Donzi and other Aronow / thunderboat row type boats to join us on the lake for our family picnic. the dustoff might not be the place to bring the new 21 to but the family picnic would be a great time to bring her and let everyone see her

then there is the fun run poker run that the LGPBA used to run in oct on columbus day weekend not sure of the status of that one with all types of go fasts i'll keep you posted if i hear anything on that one

[roadtrip se]

CMC, we would love to have you guys show at AOTH with some of your new stuff.

We have one of the biggest turn-outs planned, according to the reservation confirmation list, that we have ever had.

We will have a big contingent of Classics, ZXs, and Cig 20s at the run, so a couple of small Stuphens would fit right in. There is also an OSS race in the planning stages, so I would anticipate performance mavens all over the lake for the weekend.

Organized runs on 5.15 and 5.16. Bring'em!

Todd

[CMC319]

Sounds like a plan. I'll talk to the boys and see what we can stir up. Just so I know.....what does AOTH stand for?

[roadtrip se]

Awakening of the Horses...

[rustnrot]

Looking at these pics you can see how they bent the stainless (at least it looks like stainless) steel rub rail around the corner.

I wonder if this is the j-type that curls under the bottom edge? Reason I ask is I would like to find some j-molding that is in stainless steel. I have looked everywhere online, all the major manufacturers, etc. and have not found any.

Whoever goes looks at these Sutphens would you please see if the rubrails:

1. Are stainless or polished aluminum?
2. Are j-type molding
3. If not j-type how did they hide the bottom raw edge of the top deck (or didn't they hide it-raw edge underneath)? I suppose these boats could be tabbed together and capped but I doubt it.

Thanks, this has been talked about alot before and I know George Carter would also want to know about this.

[mattyboy]

i'll report back after i go on sat.

[blackboat]

If you wouldnt mind, check out the material they are using on the cockpit floor. weight and availability. I was considering using this in my sutphen.Thanks in advance!

[mattyboy]

I have to work friday night late into sat morning will be at the show after that probably midday or so chappy you going???

[mattyboy]

the show was small but it was very interesting , not being to crowded it gave you a real chance to talk to the powers that be and see their work up close.

it was really nice to finally get to put a face to names and meet the guys from Sutphen and Mahopac Marine for a small show there was a good showing from the performance world mixed in with all the deck and pontoon boats

Sorry I know I am the the Donzi Classic homer but I can't say a bad word for the fit and finish and the attention to detail of the sutphens and the sunsations, the guys from Sutphen are talking about going to AOTH, if I had a "stock BB 22 classic " or I was a sandbagger I would be looking to squeeze every mph I had in the bag of tricks ;)


a please remember when you send the nasty PM's an emails there a 2 T's in Mattyboy ;)


speaker pods and cup holders in a performance boat

WHODDATHUNK :)

[mattyboy]

Sorry I digress,
the rub rails are SS and they are not J rail but the std U or half round that is industry standard and there are no voids on the Sutphen and the raw deck to hull seam is very tight and clean the rail fits like a glove.

the Flooring is some kind of material that is only available wholesale to MFG's and is very hi tech and looks great they use the same thing on the new Cig's

[CMC319]

Matt, It was good to meet you today and glad another knowledgable eye recognizes the quality. I hope we can all hook up some where along the way this summer. We are going to try hard to get to AOTH !!!!

[mattyboy]

Chris,
yes it was nice to meet you as well, Tom from mahopac marine is talking about a shake down run on the hudson in may in the peekskill area i'll keep you posted
one thing and i don't think you can see it in the pics but the blue ss has the word Sutphen ghosted in the stripe I like the boat alot

[mattyboy]

Chris

here is the link to the forum site for boating in upstate NY

www.boatupstate.com forward that along to Morgan it has info on all the big boating places in upstate NY I posted some pics in the general discussion area

[olredalert]

------Matty,,,The Sutphens look pretty nice!!! The blue boat appears to have the engine pretty jammed in there. As it stands, Id hate to have to work on anything towards the front. Is the bulkhead possibly removeable??? Not pushing for you to stay in the DONZI camp, but thats one thing I like about the 24 DONZI hull. The bulkhead or firewall is removable fairly easily for easy heavy maintanence. Pretty cool when you think about it........Bill S

[Cuda]

Rich Sutphen Jr. is building the boats down in Cape Coral, FL (Sutphen Powerboats). His distributors are Ron Lombard (Milford, CT) and Morgan Haak (Middletown, Long Island, NY), who formed Sutphen Performance Group. They showed at Miami and here's a couple of shots of the 21 SS O/B.
P.S. Great 4 page article about Sutphen family's boatbuilding history throughout three generations in the latest issue of Performance Boats Lake Edition. Best of luck to Rich Jr. with family. D.S. :wink:


I sold an engine to a guy that rigged boats for Sr for 22 years. His boats were known to have the staightest hulls of any. He said the son was running the business into the ground by hiring the cheapest help he could find.

[mattyboy]

not sure Bill,

i will be staying in the family but I gotta tell you these are nice boats and call me crazy but a nice hand built 21 footer that can run 70 with 300hp from a sbc with a very reasonable price tag does peek my interest.

I am probably going to see that 24 next week

[Cuda]

I worked the Sutphen booth in Miami with Morgan and crew. We had ALOT of interest from big boat owners who want something small to buzz around in, and not have to spend a half a day to clean it after they are done. The guys that are restoring the little Cigs also realize that you can get one of Rich's boats with 100 % vinylester resin for alot less than it will cost to restore an old boat. Lets just say that alot of the heavy hitters were really impressed !!!!
I will be working the Sutphen Booth on Saturday @ Middletown and there will be 2 boats there. If anyone is going, stop by and say hello.
That's exactly why my Donzi Minx saw the water after I moved, a whole lot more than my Formula 302.

[Cuda]

------Matty,,,The Sutphens look pretty nice!!! The blue boat appears to have the engine pretty jammed in there. As it stands, Id hate to have to work on anything towards the front. Is the bulkhead possibly removeable??? Not pushing for you to stay in the DONZI camp, but thats one thing I like about the 24 DONZI hull. The bulkhead or firewall is removable fairly easily for easy heavy maintanence. Pretty cool when you think about it........Bill S
John Pompi was delighted when I told him the entire rear seat was removable in my Kama 302 Formula. Made the access to the eninges much easier, it's still no day at the beach working on those eninges.

[Dr. Dan]

:spongebob: The Flooring in the Sutphens and Cigs is Lonseal, see attached and read about it. http://www.designbiz.com/biz/BrandProfile.asp?CompanyID=57499&BrandID=393

It is used in commercial flooring applications, if you want some you just need to go to a local commercial flooring subcontractor or retail store and see if they sell commercial flooring products. Keep in mind that to order a small amount there are minimum widths and quantities for shipment in some cases so allow for that. But this is not anything that can't be had is what I am saying...I see this product and many others all the time...being a Flooring Manufacturer...it also comes in virtual any color or finish... neat stuff.

One word of caution with any oil based polymer .... once you wear through the top wear layer.. these materials can absorb Oil Based Stains... so don't be droping dirty oil in the cock pit floor... you won't be happy. Odds are it would never be an issue... but just same.

:doh:Yep...these Sutphens will give most of us fits when it comes to top end... the SS clocked in around Mid 80's without any fancy prop tuning... so 85 out of the box has gotta earn some respect among any boaters.

Very Cool Boats...hope they can come out to Kentucky.

Doc of Flooring :drive:

[CMC319]

I sold an engine to a guy that rigged boats for Sr for 22 years. His boats were known to have the staightest hulls of any. He said the son was running the business into the ground by hiring the cheapest help he could find.

Senior will say anything he can at this point to discredit junior. This comment from a guy who now makes T-Shirts.

[mattyboy]

thanks Dan that is what it is called i couldn't remember,
I will give everyone the technical overview

for the Italian food fans it looks like rubberized Fusilli pasta and has a grain or pattern to it that must run front to back it looks very comfy for the bare foot and helps drain water in the cockpit into the bilge


I don't know the differences between Sr and Jr but i gotta tell you those 2 21's are smooth as silk

[CMC319]

Cuda just reported someone's opinion, he didn't come right out and slam the guy. So, I'll have to ask the question: What's wrong with making T shirts? Does something in the ink fumes somehow destroy the fact that in your prior career you built some of the finest offshore hulls in the industry?


Its not clear who made the comment, senior or the guy who bought the engine.

I was simply trying to point out that there is bad family blood there, and when that occurs, sometimes unsubstantiated claims are made.

But thank you Poodle, as usual you are right on top of things.

[Cuda]

I have no dog in this fight. I was simply passing on what the man told me who bought the engine. He sure didn't seem like the kind of guy who would talk just to hear his gums flap, but that's just my opion of the man who bought the engine. My opinion of the man is worth exactly what was paid for my opinion, absolutely nothing. That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

[Cuda]

Its not clear who made the comment, senior or the guy who bought the engine.

I was simply trying to point out that there is bad family blood there, and when that occurs, sometimes unsubstantiated claims are made.

But thank you Poodle, as usual you are right on top of things.
I've never met either, but seings how he rigged for Sr 22 years, I could make a guess.

[CHACHI]

Its not clear who made the comment, senior or the guy who bought the engine.

I was simply trying to point out that there is bad family blood there,

I just heard the same thing this past week while I was in Florida. Not is so many words mind you, but you could easily read between the lines.

Those hulls look kinda "flat". Does anybody know what the deadrise is?

Ken

[CMC319]

I can tell you first hand, when you order a Sutphen from Rich Jr. its is made by 2 guys. One of which is Rich Jr.. This is a major reason there is such quality control. So the comment about cheap labor is really baseless.

The deadrise is 20 deg.

[CHACHI]

I can tell you first hand, when you order a Sutphen from Rich Jr. its is made by 2 guys. One of which is Rich Jr.



Is Rich Jr. also making the 32-40 foot boats also?

Ken

[CMC319]

The line up will be 21, 27 and 31. He is working on the molds for the 27 and 31 now.

[Cuda]

I can tell you first hand, when you order a Sutphen from Rich Jr. its is made by 2 guys. One of which is Rich Jr.. This is a major reason there is such quality control. So the comment about cheap labor is really baseless.

The deadrise is 20 deg.
Take it for what you will, but I didn't take it as baseless.

[Cuda]

Ok. :umbrella:

[mattyboy]

Chris hope you and Morgan can make Kentucky, it would be a great audience for the boat, if you have any questions drop roadtripse ( todd) a line he can fill you in.


few more days like this and "ICE OUT"

[VetteLT193]

I just heard the same thing this past week while I was in Florida. Not is so many words mind you, but you could easily read between the lines.

Those hulls look kinda "flat". Does anybody know what the deadrise is?

Ken

I can tell you first hand, when you order a Sutphen from Rich Jr. its is made by 2 guys. One of which is Rich Jr.. This is a major reason there is such quality control. So the comment about cheap labor is really baseless.

The deadrise is 20 deg.

I saw that at the show... I'm not concerned about the final deadrise at the transom but more so the forward deadrise... it looks very flat compared to Donzi classics... when the family is on board I can rely on the super sharp forward deadrise to take the waves. I'm not sure if I could do that on the Sut.

I'd really like to ride in one to compare.

[mattyboy]

having riden in a few challengers and 22's and other under 24 v bottom hi po boats I'll bet you'll find this boat rides well and will reasonably handle any water a 22 would handle well maybe except from the 5 footer crowd :rolleyes:

[Dr. Dan]

:p I will be leading a small Caravan to Kentucky leaving Harrisburg area on Tuesday the 12th if you guys wanna join up you are more than welcome.

Doc of Rapid Donzi Transit :drive:

[mattyboy]

umm Dan with the new truck and new boat no more caravan it's a CONVOY ;)

[mattyboy]

here's an update this was from the hudson river run on may 2nd

heres a shot of Morgan cruisin around in the new boat


sounds awesome


sorry i miss the run looks like a great time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=az76-_9Ru8g&feature=player_embedded

[mattyboy]

so how did the little blue boat make out in KY???? I heard it ran well
anymore pics ???

[txgruver]

I'm new to this board, researching the new sutphen as well as a 22 classic. Anybody have opinions on the pro's and cons of the sutphen compared to the 22? Would love to see some more pics from KY as well.

Thanks.

[CMC319]

Do your research. The Donzi is known to be very prop and trim sensitive and can porpoise if not set up correctly. Do you have any idea which engine you want? Take a ride in both....it will make your decision easier. The Sutphen crew is very easy to work with and will get you a ride if you contact them.

[CMC319]

"WTF is your point"........

You have to be kidding ??




And I have both flipped (twice actually) AND barrel rolled a Boston Whaler, WTF is your point?

[CMC319]

First,the reason I quoted you was because I couldnt believe the langauge used by a moderator, even if it was an abbreviation.

Second, he asked for opinions and pros and cons of the two boats. I'M sure the amount of time I have in the 22 Classic does not match yours, but my statement was my experience in two Classic boats. One trip was so bad I asked the owner of the boat to take me back to the dock. Perhaps it was just the set up on those two boats, but none the less it was my experience. In addition, I have heard and read about this condition many times.

I take your point on the salesmenship. My comments were not ment to offend the Donzi family. It was more of a friendly competition. I was always told competition is a healthy thing.

I could point out a few things good and bad on the Sutphen. But rather than to continue to engage you on these topics, which I am sure I would NEVER win, I will just let you be the boss, as its your field general.

[txgruver]

Sorry to get things stirred up here. I am primarily looking at the Donzi, but thought this looked like a cool boat. The problem is, it is brand new and not a lot of people have seen or driven them. I was not looking for the opinion of a guy that is involved in building or selling these boats but rather a donzi owner that has seen or ridden in one.

[Carl C]

It seems odd to imply that the 22 Classic being sensitive to trim and "props" is a bad thing. This is not a boat for beginners. It likes constant input via small tab and trim adjustments when driven at speed in the rough. Mine will only porpoise if I deliberately induce it with a lot of positive trim at low speed, otherwise she rides flat and straight. My boat is also very forgiving when encountering that rogue yacht or freighter wake. She always re-enters the water straight and level. I have a lot of confidence in this hull. You can learn to use the trim and tabs to make wide sweeping high banking turns, then trim up, raise the tabs and grab some throttle. In other words the Donzi 22 Classic is a blast to drive! Mine gets me on the Great Lakes or the local ponds. Donzi Classic, there is no substitute:).

[Sutphen Guy]

Hey madpoodle,
I just got in and got a chance to read up a bit, glad to see you and CMC319 are hitting it off so well. LOL
I would have liked to get a ride in a 22 at the Kentucky run to help give me some baseline speed and handling comparisons, didn't happen. I agree that we should have got together at AOTH had a few beers and took you for a ride in one of our 21's, didn't happen. Let's do it!!!

I'm not looking at attacking Donzi by any means, you guys have great boats and a increadible following of great boaters, thats what I learned at AOTH. Our new 21 Sutphen just happens to fit into the same size class with your Donzi's and what better way for me to show of what I have than to bring it to an event where people love this style boat.

Don built some great stuff over the years and they are still living today.

Rich Sutphen Jr. has designed this new 21 to be a real good performer, just looking for you guys to give us a shot to show off what we have.

Thanks
Morgan Haak

[txgruver]

Poodle, I'll definately be coming to some events in the future. I actually live close to a certain farmer that seems to like donzi's.

[blackboat]

I have owned a 20 foot sutphen super pacer for 15 years and a 18 foot donzi corsican for 10 years. Both great boats! My opinion would be to go for a ride in both . Also remember setup,steering, and prop has a lot to do with how a boat rides or performs .

[Sutphen Guy]

It's been pretty quiet around here so I thought I should throw a few clips at you guys.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP14cbjGRJw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WarMXYg3Heg

check out the gps speedo on this stock 496 HO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANbd9AJfiNo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzOZbEDyJJ0

Had a good time at the run with you guys, see ya next year.
Morgan

[TOPSY II]

Well...being that I live just across the River from there shop in Cape Coral, I may just have to drop by and check these boats out in person!

If any of you have questions you'd like me to ask...FIRE AWAY! and I'll do my best to get answers.

I've seen a couple on the river, and I'm pretty damn sure, one with Diesels came into my Marina to fuel up. Also seen a couple in the "slow zone" ( Manatees ) with O/B's, maybe from another era? Didn't know a thing about these boats till I started reading this thread.. One thing I can tell you, is when he got OUT of the slow zone, he "disappeared".....FAST!
and I put the Minx up to 4500 RPM, trimmed, and he ran away and hid. :shocking:

TOPSY II

[yeller]

Nice speeds for a stock HO. I like the boat, but what would stop me from buying is that boxy engine hatch. Looks as if some kid made it in his garage. IMO, if that was changed, the whole boat would look so much better.

I honestly don't mean to offend. Just giving you my opinion.:)

[mphatc]

Blackboat, please hare a bit with me about your Corsican, I am collecting and logging hull numbers and owners along with locations

You can send the info to me directly at:
Mario@VSR1.com


Thanks,

Mario L.

1969 Donzi corsican C18 C32
1968 Magnum 27

[Greg Guimond]

TTT for the 22 Classic v Sutphen 21 comparo.........

[CMC319]

I just wanted to post a couple of pictures of the latest 21 Sutphen. This boat has the 6.2 / 377 engine with bravo drive. If the customer chooses, it can be made with a flat hatch.

[mattyboy]

CMC

nice, the red and white 6.2 boat was nice too. what's the HP on the 377?

[mattyboy]

this one reminds me of a camaro rs

[Greg Guimond]

CMC, what is the rough price of the Sutphen?

[CMC319]

Greg, Unless the Donzi.net powers tell me its OK....I will not post pricing here. I posted the pictures to show what the new boat looks like, since its in the same Type Class as the Classic line.

[GBond]

Great looking boat. The pop up cleats sure make the difference, for a clean finished look. :pretzel:

[Greg Guimond]

One thing for sure, it doesn't cost $79,000 even with the pop up cleats.

[CMC319]

One thing for sure, it doesn't cost $79,000 even with the pop up cleats.

Yes... a nicely equipped boat would certainly be less coin than that.

Matt...that 377 is 320 HP.

[OFFSHORE GINGER]

Hey guys , not to be rude but the new Supthen 21 does not even compare to the flowing lines of any Donzi of that size with a windshield and whats up with the ugly motor hatch and wind screen , which looks like an add -on .

[yeller]

I'm not a fan of the Sutphen either. The boat is close...just missing the mark on the hatch, fairing and dash.

A bit of work in those areas and it could be real looker.

[Full-throttle]

Well, at least it's still being made. I'm just saying:wink:
I love my 21SSX. It's simply amazing how fast the boat is with a stock 496HO.
It's really too bad the classic isn't going to be produced any longer. That's what happens when big business gets involved with only the bottom line in mind. I really have to give Sutphen Performance Group, and all the other custom builders, credit for building boats out of passion and not based on pure profit.

[mattyboy]

yeller, ginger,

yes the lines may not be everyone's cup of tea. but i can tell you the boat is very functional, and the workmanship is there. they weren't out to build a donzi they were out to build a small sutphen. they nailed it, there is a 30 ish foot sutphen near my office in suffern NY. when i saw it I said wow it looks like a bigger 21. so they were true to their heritage and history.

nothing rude about your comments or feelings but the boat looks different when your in it compared to when you see it from the dock.

as an example and nothing rude about it. I have said this to many of my friends with 22's the 22 is an awesome boat and when you're in it the long nose is just very appealing, but I don't like the way the nose looks in the water or the trailer compared to that seat view . It looks like it was put in a taffy puller . the water line stripe on a 16 and 18 or even the 19 hornet run along the chine then make a graceful arc to the nose. Look at a 22 the line starts up then levels off the starts up again. would this stop me from buying the boat if i wanted a 22 absolutely not. There are things that each buyer wants from a purchase. looks, performance,heritage,price,cost of ownership to name a few. when it comes to crunch time the buyer might weigh these items differently.

If I were in the market for a new under 23 V bottom go fast, Donzi, the sutphen would be on the list as well as the superboat. then i would do the 1,2,3 test. pick my categories and then rate them 1,2,or 3 in each category.

[CMC319]

To each his own. I've had people tell me they love the hatch. The hatch can be made flat if you dont use a big block for power. Flat hatch with a pad.

[INNERRAGE70]

piece of art, perfect just the way it is

[JimG]

+1 I LOVE the looks of that boat! Even the hatch. They nailed it...

[silverghost]

To me the Superboat has more of those old "Classic" lines & look that I like.
I might be stuck in the past~
But this Sutphen has a much more Euro Modern look .

[mattyboy]

To me the Superboat has more of those old "Classic" lines & look that I like.
I might be stuck in the past~
But this Sutphen has a much more Euro Modern look .

when was the last time you looked at a superboat??? I might agree with that statement prior to 2003 with the old challenger style but the new design of the legend looks more modern and alot like the sutphen styling with the fairing.

http://www.superboatonline.com/21.html

[silverghost]

Matty~
Looks like I have been out of the loop too long~
I had no idea that they had changed so much since 03.
The 21 For Sale on this forum site is very cool.

[mattyboy]

nice try at a radio edit, but obviously the comparsion was to the 21 superboat legend not the 24 superboat. to me that is the line where the smaller boats are out of their comfort zone.

[Greg Guimond]

From a looks perspective, whenever you have a flat transom and a straight fairing I put that in the "old school" catagory. I prefer the old school look in general. There are several builders who are still building 22/23 foot go fasts so there are more then a few options out there. Now if you ask who still builds a 24 degree bottom in a 22 footer, the list gets a lot shorter. It really depends on what you are after. At 24 feet, you have tons of options and you also need a bigger tow vehicle and a deeper garage to store it inside. That is what makes the 21-23 class so appealing IMO. Cheap to run, cheap to trailer, cheap to store, and fast.

Now maybe Chris will get Richie to put a 300XS on the back and see what the hull can really do against I/O power. I think it would spank a stock BBC like a red headed school child in any conditions. Then again, I have way toooooooo many opinions on the Sutphen already :)

[Buddyc]

Now maybe Chris will get Richie to put a 300XS on the back and see what the hull can really do against I/O power. I think it would spank a stock BBC like a red headed school child in any conditions. Then again, I have way toooooooo many opinions on the Sutphen already :)
I was on a Checkmate 24brx not too long ago and he had the 300xs on it. WOW was I impressed.70 with ease and like a rocket out of the hole... Very impressive power

[Greg Guimond]

It would be interesting to know what fullthrottle gets on GPS with his 496HO and how the balance is in 2's and 3's. Either way, it would be a great campaign to show the boat with both 300XS power and BBC. They really are dealing themselves a bad hand by not showing what the boat can do with 300 power. It is a relatively shallow V, I think with proper set-up you could get 80 in ideal conditions. Add a U interior and you have a pretty cool all around package for a tough economy.

[CMC319]

You are right Greg, in todays market, you have to work hard on EVERY Deal. Rich and I have some good ideas, but being a small builder, we also have to keep the company budget in mind. I started out as a Stern Drive guy, but I am now a fan of the outboard set up. We hope to do an O/B project soon. Here is something we are using in our next project.........

[Greg Guimond]

Why bother, isn't it less expensive to put a 300XS on the back then that 525? I would think that it would also appeal to a larger cross section of your potential market given where the economy is currently. I can hear the mumbling of the board members already (damn wacker*&%H#$*) but look at what you would get ...........

Cheaper overall MSRP
Faster overall speeds
Larger overall interior space
Lower overall cost to fuel

All that adds up to ......................:superman: This I can't be sure of but I believe you would be the only company offering a new rough water 22 footer in North America.

[CMC319]

But the 525 is SOLD

[mattyboy]

here's an article from powerboating Canada . the 21 I test drove with a 350 mag was just about a 70 mph and performed well the 525 boat must be a blast

http://www.powerboating.com/component/k2/item/249-trailer-boats-1225-sutphen-21

[Carl C]

I don't like the "plywood cored hull".

[JayZ]

I don't like the "plywood cored hull".

Nothing wrong with it as long as there is a good core bond and it is kept dry but I kind of agree.

[Ghost]

With the comments in the piece about weight and handling, I think that boat is crying out for one of these:

http://www.1800runsnew.com/panther_new-perf.html


Plus, it's made with bits of real panther. So you know it's good.

[duckhunter]

Plus, it's made with bits of real panther. So you know it's good.

Sixty percent of the time, it works every time. :shades:

You stay classy San Diego...

[mattyboy]

yes water in the hull is a problem, not only for wood.

wood does somethings synthetics don't do some good some bad.


nice to see an offering that will give you custom choices at production prices with quality foremost.

The boat I first pictured is the one I test drove it was later rigged with a re-man merc 350 300 hp . It ran a solid 68 with two not so light weights up front. Merc was using their re man'd engines as a way around the new regulations on Marine motors. Being a custom ordered boat you could ordered it rigged however you wanted. I think the re-man'd Stroker scorp 383ci 400 hp would be an excellent combo in this boat.

or for grins and giggles the ilmor 570 indy combo.


the article came from a gathering they had up in Canada recently with 5 or so new sutphens the new yellow one can be seen in the background.

anyone with the budget of 60-100k for a new under 23 v bottom go fast should give this boat a look.

what I liked most was the interior and the in the boat feeling it had.


Greg,

not sure what happened to Chris I haven't see him online in sometime, not sure who is posting up the recent news on the facebook page. I think the sutphen performance group was a dealer co. for the new 21 and different from Rich Jr's co.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Sutphen-Powerboats/131362983595302?fref=ts

[VetteLT193]

The main hang up with the Sut is the deadrise. The initial deadrise isn't aggressive and the final (transom) deadrise is 20 degrees.

The 22 classic handles the rough great because of the 24 deadrise in the stern and worse case is you drag tabs and let the bow cut through it all. With the sut you just don't have that option... Even compared to a Fountain 24 CS I think I'd rather the Fountain. The initial deadrise on the fountain is aggressive so you can slow down and bow down through the rough stuff if need be.

Of course maybe I just live in an area with rougher water to contend with than most in this market.

[mattyboy]

two drivers both out of a 20 foot 24 degree round bottom hull same water same day thought the sutphen rode and handled better.

True if I were looking at 24 footers and rough water was my normal boating i don't think i would be looking at a 21 foot boat .

but if someone was looking for a 20 ish good performing, stable handling go fast at a reasonable price this is a boat to look at. I ran the boat wot with only a few minutes of seat time and it handled very well in somewhat confused water normal lake wash and the wakes of a 24 pantera a 22 velocity and a 20 cig . the learning curve was very short compared to my time behind the wheel of a classic.

[roadtrip se]

Running with them at AOTH, and then riding in a 496 version, they looked like and felt like a slippery popsickle on the water. Winner? The 22 Classic.

[MR MAGOO]

Funny that I just stumbled onto this thread. The 21 Sutphen pictured in the first post of this thead had been in my possesion since Labor Day weekend of last year.

The 21 Sut is an amazing little boat that one has to actually drive before they can appreciate it. Having owned well over 20 performance boats over the years, I'm not easily impressed. As mentioned above, this one had a 300hp 350Mag MPI. I'm spinning a 27 Mirage Plus (labbed) to 5100rpm. 72.6 on gps -pretty impressive on its own but give up nothing on the hole shot. This thing rips like a drag car.

As for the deadrise, having owned many Donzi classics over the years with a 24 degree vee, the shallow vee of the Sutphen is a non issue. It's a completely different ride as it gets on top and flies (level) where as the Donzi slices through.

If anyone is thinking of switching it up and trying something different, the Sutphen is a very worthy choice. Kurt

http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz91/klflashroadrunner/09202012019_zps39a9d290.jpg

http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz91/klflashroadrunner/Ryanswedding100812021.jpg

http://i817.photobucket.com/albums/zz91/klflashroadrunner/Ryanswedding100812022.jpg

[Greg Guimond]

Seeing as the Sutphen 21 is being discussed, some data below on it from another site ............GPS of 93.4MPH with the 525 package and 88 with a wacker :thumbsup:

Fastest SOB Hulls Available For Purchase New In 2013....All Boats Powered with a stock Mercury 300XS (306HP and 6400RPM Limiter)

#1 Tuff 21 kevlar skinned hull-890lbs – 20’8” Long,7’7”Beam 22 degree deadrise (Confirmed102.5MPH DriverBlake Sewell)(2002 Tuff 21 ran 102MPH w/300X)
#2 Bernico F2 21 standard epoxy hull-727lbs–21’4” Long, 6’3”Beam deadrise unknown(Confirmed 98.1MPH Driver VanSteelant)(550lb s3000 385HP ran103.1MPH)
#3 Progression 22 standard bagged hull-948lbs – 22’1”Long, 7’8” Beam 24 degree variable deadrise (Confirmed 94MPH Driver goneby)
#4 Sutphen 21 standard hull-1325lbs–20’9” Long, 7’2” Beam 20 degree variable deadrise (88MPH Driver Unknown)(525I/O with heavy layup ran a confirmed 93.4MPH)
#5 Nordic Crossfire 21 or SR 21 standard hull-1475lbs– 21’ Long, 7’1” Beam 18 degree deadrise (Confirmed 86MPH Driver wildone)
#6 Velocity 220 standard hull weight-unknown – 21’6” Long, 7’11” Beam 22 degree deadrise (80.8MPH Driver Unknown)

[JimG]

Mr Magoo, that Sutphen is gorgeous!

[mattyboy]

Kurt,

happy belated birthday and congrats on the 21. I fell for that boat right away

hoping to get up your way this summer with the hornet but @ 72mph you're gonna have to wait for me or give me a big head start ;)

really like the color combo on that boat.

[MR MAGOO]

Thanks guys, -presently down in Miami for the boat show. This warm weather sure got the itch for boating this season!

Hope to meet this summer up on Long Lake!

Kurt

[Greg Guimond]

Hopefully Sutphen is displaying the 21 footer at the Miami show. I like it, has an old school look with some tasteful "rounding" deck updates. Also has a lot of freeboard for the size.