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BUIZILLA
02-19-2009, 01:38 PM
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http://freiburgersjunkyard.com/blog/assets/images/news/GM%20Logo.JPG Bombshell! GM Performance Dead (For Now) By Brian Lohnes Posted 02/18/09

Automotive News is reporting that General Motors has killed off the GM Performance Division. This is crushing news to fans of domestic performance vehicles and the decision appears to have been made in order to appease the government.

Quoting directly from the AN piece by Jamie LaReau, “All high-performance projects are on indefinite hold," GM spokesman Vince Muniga said. "The engineers are moving into different areas of the organization, and they will work on Cadillacs, Buicks, Chevrolets and Pontiacs."

Outside of the obvious implications regarding the desirability of the GM product line, we think that this means no SS Camaro. This truly is a shocking and frightening development for everyone involved in the automotive hobby, whether you are a GM fan or not.

Again, quoting from the story in Automotive News, “Muniga said there are no plans for high-performance versions of upcoming cars.The move is in the spirit of GM's viability plan delivered to the U.S. Treasury Department on Tuesday. In the plan, GM said its future-product focus is on fuel- efficient cars and crossovers. It also pledged to increase its current offering of six hybrids to 14 by 2012 and to 26 by 2014. GM also boosted its request for federal aid by as much as $16.6 billion.”

‘The High Performance Vehicle Operations unit could be reinstated once GM regains its financial health, GM's Muniga said.’

We’re out of words.

chappy
02-19-2009, 02:13 PM
:censored:

smbarcelow
02-19-2009, 02:22 PM
:censored:

Ditto. :garfield:

CJmike
02-19-2009, 02:53 PM
:mad:bama

VetteLT193
02-19-2009, 03:01 PM
The SS Camaro, Z06, ZR1, regular 'Vette are all safe as of now.

CTS-V (and probably the whole Caddy V line), Cobalt SS, HHR SS, and a few more look like they are toast.

zelatore
02-19-2009, 03:30 PM
The SS Camaro, Z06, ZR1, regular 'Vette are all safe as of now.
CTS-V (and probably the whole Caddy V line), Cobalt SS, HHR SS, and a few more look like they are toast.

Well that's a bummer. The CTS-V was probably the best car GM built.




:mad:bama

Er, you do recall the gubment programs to 'bail out' GM weren't started under O's watch, right? But then again, I suppose just lumping anything that you/we don't like on him is just fair play since I/we spent the last 8 years blaming W for everything possible (even if it wasn't exactly hard to find things to lay at his feet)

CJmike
02-19-2009, 03:39 PM
Er, you do recall the gubment programs to 'bail out' GM weren't started under O's watch, right? But then again, I suppose just lumping anything that you/we don't like on him is just fair play since I/we spent the last 8 years blaming W for everything possible (even if it wasn't exactly hard to find things to lay at his feet)


Implimentation = :mad:bama

gcarter
02-19-2009, 03:52 PM
Er, you do recall the gubment programs to 'bail out' GM weren't started under O's watch, right? But then again, I suppose just lumping anything that you/we don't like on him is just fair play since I/we spent the last 8 years blaming W for everything possible (even if it wasn't exactly hard to find things to lay at his feet)


Uh......how does it feel Don?
Eh?



Ya might wanna get used to it.

BUIZILLA
02-19-2009, 03:54 PM
Trailblazer SS is history...

BUIZILLA
02-19-2009, 04:02 PM
Hummer, Saturn & Pontiac will be history soon.. :eek:

as well as 47,000 more laid off employee's, and 5 more plants on shutdown...

roadtrip se
02-20-2009, 11:28 AM
administration was in office at the time, put aside for just a moment...and I thought on this one over night after I saw it go up...

but weren't some of you the same folks recommending Japanese and European products and screaming let them eat dirt when the bail-out hearings began last year?

Now the other shoe falls.

One that none of you have mentioned... the upcoming Z28, toast. That spiffy new Volt should fill its spot quite nicely.

Of course, no sour grapes or anything like that here... but what goes around comes around. And you ain't even started to see the beginning of it, trust me, based on what I am hearing around Detroit.

Flame away.

BUIZILLA
02-20-2009, 11:42 AM
so Gm may get 29 BILLION and they still kill 3 car lines??

like WTF here...

why give them money to kill lines and employee's? I thought the money was for a bail out or restructure?

Air 22
02-20-2009, 11:49 AM
I had the opportunity to drive :drive: the CTS-V at my local dealer and it is without question AWSOME! Wadda shame to c it possibly be dropped:boggled:
IMO...It has to be one of the BEST cars GM has ever produced:wink::beer:

roadtrip se
02-20-2009, 11:57 AM
It is painful, but Chev/Buick/Cad/GMC account for 90% of the revenue stream at GM. The rest is fluff...

gcarter
02-20-2009, 12:29 PM
I've always had the idea that you couldn't make money on a car unless 50K examples per year went out the door.
This stuff is no surprise to me. It's what I'd do.
If it ain't making money "NOW", kill it!
It can always be recreated later.
Think about how many sports car lines around the world are profitable...............
Long list isn't it?????
Porsche.
Period.
How many do they sell /year?
Over 50K isn't it?

f_inscreenname
02-20-2009, 03:54 PM
Looks like if you want power there's only one company left, Ford.

mjw930
02-20-2009, 04:15 PM
Trailblazer SS is history...

I'm pretty sure the entire Trailblazer model is canned after the '09 model year. The SS was supposed to die in the '08 model year but for some reason it didn't. I have an '07 and it's a blast with the big motor but the driving dynamics are marginal at best. The live axle has a mind of it's own and the NVH is really old school but it is a body on frame truck so all these stand to reason.

I think this means future development is killed, that would mean the CTS-V and anything else that was through design and engineering and released to production was safe.

BUIZILLA
02-20-2009, 04:31 PM
CTS-V is dead...

CTS stays

Donziweasel
02-20-2009, 04:57 PM
Well, there goes the whole small block marine engine lineup, including the LSA. Also, does this mean the GM Performance parts and engine branch is gone? No more 572 crate engines?

BUIZILLA
02-20-2009, 05:12 PM
Saab filed bankruptcy today...

in Sweden...

f_inscreenname
02-20-2009, 05:43 PM
Saab filed bankruptcy today...

in Sweden...

Ya they don't want GM to shut them down so Saab wants Sweden to buy GM out and save 17000 jobs over there. I guess it would better then letting them die.

BUIZILLA
02-20-2009, 06:35 PM
IMO, this GMPP shutdown is huge news...

the repercussions of this throughout the performance world and through SEMA will be of volcanic proportions... then there is MOPAR Performance, Ford Motorsports and Ford SVT... if an investment group could salvage GMPP it would make them a NICE $$$$ payback over time

on the flip side are the aftermarket head, block, and crank castings/forgers network which may thrive as a direct result...

mjw930
02-20-2009, 09:23 PM
CTS-V is dead...

No, it's not!

It's as I said, models that are in or slated for production, i.e. production engineering, logistics, etc. have been completed, will be built. Future models still in development are "on hold".

http://freiburgersjunkyard.com/blog/GM-Performance-Division-Disbanded-Not-as-Drastic-as-We-Thought.html


GM Performance Division Disbanded: Not as Drastic as First Reported By Brian Lohnes Posted 02/20/09

After a day of burning up phone lines, sending e-mails, reading other online reports, and launching flares up into the sky, we’ve got some more information for you with regard to Wednesday's announcement about the disbanding of GMPD.

The good news is that things seem to suck far less than we were led to believe with the story we were working off of from Automotive News.

GM Performance Division has not, in fact, been completely disbanded. The engineers that were focused on performance-car development have been reassigned to other areas and projects in the company. The positive seems to be that when things are back on track, this unit will be reconvened.

Cars that have been developed and are slated for production will not be placed in danger. The Camaro SS for instance, is full steam ahead. We have heard that IF the Camaro SS continues to sell well it will continue on, but if it falls on its face after a model year or two, it faces a grim future.

Here’s where the crappy part starts. Cars that were in development, and by now we’re talking in terms of say, the 2012 model year are now dead in the water. Those projects have been halted.

Also, GM Performance Parts is not part of GMPD and is doing just fine.

So that’s what we’ve gleaned so far. As we are able to chip more news out of this story we will get it to you.

http://blogs.motortrend.com/6454648/car-news/gms-performance-division-no-future-productfor-now-cts-v-coupe-possible/index.html




DETROIT - There's a bit of confusion following Automotive News' report Wednesday that General Motors has shut down its High Performance Vehicle Operations. HPVO's 60 engineers have been moved to other projects, mostly alternative fuel/powerplant vehicles and getting better fuel mileage out of conventional internal combustion engines, for example.


GM will continue to produce low-volume performance cars that have been designed, including the Cadillac CTS-v sedan, Chevrolet Cobalt SS and HHR SS and, of course, the Australian-sourced Pontiac G8 GXP. Spokesman Vince Muniga likens it to Ford's shutdown of its Special Vehicle Team about three years ago. Ford has just unveiled SVT versions of the F-150 (Raptor) and 2010 Taurus (SHO).

And because the CTS-v sedan has been on sale for several months, there's a good chance you'll be able to buy a CTS-v coupe some time in 2011, following the 3.6-liter V-6-powered coupe's planned launch in late 2010.

Corvette engineering and design were never part of HPVO, so ZR-1, Z06 and even Camaro SS production are not affected. We've reported, however, that Chevrolet's Z/28 version of the Camaro, which would have used the CTS-v's engine/tuning, is on indefinite hold.

So what does this "hiatus" affect? Mostly future product that would have gone through the HPVO pipeline. Frankly, that makes this almost a non-story, as cash-strapped GM has put much of its future product on hold in order to get the 2011 Chevrolet Volt and Cruze on the market (the new Opel Insignia, just launched in Europe, too). You were expecting, maybe, a Volt SS or Cruze SS?

Indeed, the future of GM's performance division relies as much on what emissions and fuel economy standards the government imposes on the auto industry as it does on whether the automakers get any more federal money.

Air 22
02-20-2009, 10:15 PM
MJ..thanks for the info:yes: The CTS-V Lives on...for now.....:crossfing::kingme:

mjw930
02-21-2009, 07:29 AM
I've always had the idea that you couldn't make money on a car unless 50K examples per year went out the door.
This stuff is no surprise to me. It's what I'd do.
If it ain't making money "NOW", kill it!
It can always be recreated later.
Think about how many sports car lines around the world are profitable...............
Long list isn't it?????
Porsche.
Period.
How many do they sell /year?
Over 50K isn't it?

Yes, Porsche's total, worldwide sales of ALL models was 98,652 in 2008 but that's a combination of all models in all markets. Only the Cayenne series approached the 50K mark @ 45,478 units sold.

As a contrast GM built 35,310 Corvette's in 2008, roughly the same as the number of 911's Porsche built.

Sports cars are a different breed, I think the break even number is closer to 20K examples considering their higher prices and margins.

I don't consider SS or GT editions of a mainstream model as sports cars and as such I think the break even point for them is arbitrary.

mjw930
02-21-2009, 07:37 AM
Hopefully the Cayman will tank, values will drop, and I can buy one :) :)
I think it will make a cool autocrosser...

:wink::wink: I'm with you on that one. We have an '03 Boxster but I would kill for the new 3.2L direct injected boxster/caymen with the PDK trans..... Nothing rotates through a tight corner quite like a mid engine Porsche :)

mjw930
02-21-2009, 07:55 AM
With regard to Porsches the sweet spot for purchasing one is when they are between 18 and 24 months old.

We picked up the '03 Boxster S in '05. It was 18 months old, had 9500 miles on it and we got it for $37,500. The MSRP (and sales price) when new was $56,500, that's a $19,000 savings for what was essentially a new car. It still had 30 months of the factory warranty remaining. Today that car only has 15,500 miles on it and we could sell it for $30K in a heart beat. That's only $7500 depreciation in the last 42 months.

breeze400
02-21-2009, 08:03 AM
COOL FORD TRUCK!! :yes::cool::yes: I'd buy one in A NY minute!! Anyone know next weeks MEGA #s? LOL I could park my F-350 for A while!!

SAM :yes::yes::yes:

BigGrizzly
02-21-2009, 09:48 AM
Did anybody really think that the restructure would not cost jobs??? The other thing is just because they say they will stop that doesn't mean it will really happen. They need to cut back. no money means no new car purchase. There is as much fat in GM as in the bail out, not in $$$ but in percentage. On my way back from Miami I was noticing all the out of business dealers I passed. All the jobless techs and sales people, I feel sorry for them.