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DickB
02-18-2009, 11:48 PM
I had been thinking about replacing the plastic dash on my 18C off and on, but this past week one thing led to another and now I am getting to the serious thinking stage. I like wood, and that is the material of choice for me. I was recently looking at CNC routers, including trial versions of software for them. Using the CarveWright machine software, I ended up with a preliminary design that incorporates my ideas. I want the same size and shape as the original dash, but I want to angle the gauges without using add-on bezels. I want to sculpt the dash itself. I’d been toying with ways to do this using conventional tools and a jig or two, but then I ran across these CNC machines – problem solved! I think I’m starting to convince myself that my shop needs one of these.

Lenny
02-19-2009, 12:16 AM
Yes, but at $150K-$300K for a 5 axis machine, does one DONZI dash pay for itself ???

Pearson has been there, done that, in Billet aluminum. He also has the G-codes for you to plug into someone elses machine if you supply the metal billet/hardwood reciprocate. That would be a lot cheaper. Throw some money at him for the code. That is what I would do and I have seen/been in his boat. It IS what it is percieved to be. :yes:

These folks all think so...

Lenny, Deneen, Roadtrip,Diane,Bertram Boy, Madpoodle, Dr. Dan. :D

glashole
02-19-2009, 06:24 AM
These folks all think so...

Lenny, Deneen, Roadtrip,Diane,Bertram Boy, Madpoodle, Dr. Dan. :D


nice name drop
:wink:

mattyboy
02-19-2009, 07:43 AM
termites :eek: actually i like it too

but if ya go wood you have to go coast to coast ;)

LKSD
02-19-2009, 07:56 AM
Wood can look cool. We are doing a teak replacment dashplate for a 20 cig that we are redoing. The wood looks very rich & classy in come boats.. J

DickB
02-19-2009, 08:00 AM
Yes, but at $150K-$300K for a 5 axis machine, does one DONZI dash pay for itself ???

Pearson has been there, done that, in Billet aluminum. He also has the G-codes for you to plug into someone elses machine if you supply the metal billet/hardwood reciprocate. That would be a lot cheaper. Throw some money at him for the code. That is what I would do and I have seen/been in his boat. It IS what it is percieved to be. :yes:

These folks all think so...

Lenny, Deneen, Roadtrip,Diane,Bertram Boy, Madpoodle, Dr. Dan. :D
That’s an outstanding piece of work, but not the look I am after. A 5-axis machine is more than what is needed here. The machines that I am investigating are primarily or exclusively for working with wood and plastic, and are way cheaper – in the $2K-10K range – although still not inexpensive. The “one thing led to another” reference means that I actually started investigating these machines for another purpose, then thought of this concept. I certainly would use the machine for more than just one Donzi project.

DickB
02-19-2009, 08:02 AM
termites :eek: actually i like it too

but if ya go wood you have to go coast to coast ;)
Sweet! And a wood racing stripe to match? I assume that carries over aft.

mattyboy
02-19-2009, 08:21 AM
right down to the little pieces by the hatch one in fron one in back
the cig has a channel for the wood stripe on a classic i guess you could taper the wood to almost nothing to make it look flush

the cigs came with teak we thought mahogony would look better

Tony
02-19-2009, 10:04 AM
Matty, I LOVE that Cig!

I also like the looks of a wood dash, but wonder if it might look "all-alone" without any other wood trim to complement it. Wheel, throttle knob, floor...I don't know, I'm just thinking.

BigGrizzly
02-19-2009, 10:24 AM
wood is way cool if done right.

DickB
02-19-2009, 11:14 AM
Matty, I LOVE that Cig!

I also like the looks of a wood dash, but wonder if it might look "all-alone" without any other wood trim to complement it. Wheel, throttle knob, floor...I don't know, I'm just thinking.
See - lots of uses for that CNC machine!

DickB
02-19-2009, 11:16 AM
right down to the little pieces by the hatch one in fron one in back
the cig has a channel for the wood stripe on a classic i guess you could taper the wood to almost nothing to make it look flush

the cigs came with teak we thought mahogony would look better
Nice! That is really integrated well.

Surfer
02-19-2009, 11:41 AM
Sold my 18, and picked up a checkmate 21 that I am in the middle of a complete resto. The theme of the boat is tiki-ish, with bamboo trim. I have been toying with a bamboo dash, but can only find 3/4" ply with bamboo veneir (sp). does anyone know of a source for a faux bomboo 1/8" or a metal bamboo finish. I've run across lots of wood/metal at the shows but no bamboo.

Lenny
02-19-2009, 11:53 AM
Bamboo is availavble from a few places with a phenolic backer. As well as in 4/4 material if a solid is your game. Solids are available from many of the hardwoods suppliers here so you can bet they are available there. :yes:

http://www.veneers.com/list_veneers.htm?1-2-Light

This is REAL wood.

Lenny
02-19-2009, 11:57 AM
DickB, we are obviously talking about two different machines. I can't get into 3 axis for under about $60,000. and that is a small machine, low capacity, single table. You must be talking about something like Mastercam, or Shopbot or something. Looks like your modelling was done using Solidworks.

http://www.biesse.it//dati/files/034_95_rovera330zoom.jpg

DickB
03-02-2009, 06:44 AM
Lenny, sorry for the delay in responding, I missed your post. The two machines I was looking at are primarily woodworking machines. One is the CNC Shark at Rockler, much like a scaled-down Shopbot.
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=19441&filter=cnc
The other is the CarveWright.
http://www.carvewright.com (http://www.carvewright.com/)
The software is CarveWright’s – you can download a trial version, which is what I did for both machines.

I just placed an order for the CarveWright this morning.

Saturday I pulled the handle off of my Mercury Quicksilver 3000 Classic control. It has a plastic handle on top that I am going to try to duplicate somewhat in mahogany. While I’m at it, I’m going to try to place trim tab switches on the front of handle, which can be operated by index and middle fingers. The control also has a thin faceplate that I will try to duplicate in veneer. I think these additions will look good with the dash.

Hotboat
03-02-2009, 04:13 PM
Mattyboy, I am getting ready to do the decks on my 24 and the Cig brochure says that mahogany was an option over the teak. I also like the mahogany better.

joseph m. hahnl
03-03-2009, 06:41 PM
Lenny, sorry for the delay in responding, I missed your post. The two machines I was looking at are primarily woodworking machines. One is the CNC Shark at Rockler, much like a scaled-down Shopbot.
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=19441&filter=cnc
The other is the CarveWright.
http://www.carvewright.com (http://www.carvewright.com/)
The software is CarveWright’s – you can download a trial version, which is what I did for both machines.

I just placed an order for the CarveWright this morning.

Saturday I pulled the handle off of my Mercury Quicksilver 3000 Classic control. It has a plastic handle on top that I am going to try to duplicate somewhat in mahogany. While I’m at it, I’m going to try to place trim tab switches on the front of handle, which can be operated by index and middle fingers. The control also has a thin faceplate that I will try to duplicate in veneer. I think these additions will look good with the dash.

What you are trying to do requires kellering(Three-dimensional machining of a contoured surface) a cnc router will not have that capability. you would need a cnc machine that can simultaneously move all three axis at the same time.Most modern machines have it standard, but in the older ones it was a very expensive option "usually a parameter bit setting" That can be turned on by a technician for a healthy fee.I'm pretty sure that those routers will only allow XY movement or YZ movement or XZ movement. you can select any one of the planes by using the proper G code "G17 thru G19".That would be something you would need to investigate before you purchase. I'm sure you could find a used Milling center for short
money. Then you wouldn't have to limit yourself to just woods and plastics.

BigGrizzly
03-04-2009, 07:54 AM
J Hahn, I love your wealth of machine knowledge, Since I am a gazetteer, I love that kind of stuff. Dick, I don't have a wood dash, but on the right boat and done well it will be beautiful. Up keep will be the issue. In the long run it will be worth it.

Rob M
03-04-2009, 08:05 AM
Corsican with wood dash

BigGrizzly
03-04-2009, 08:30 AM
Nice looks like mine without the wind shield.

DickB
03-04-2009, 08:38 PM
What you are trying to do requires kellering(Three-dimensional machining of a contoured surface) a cnc router will not have that capability. you would need a cnc machine that can simultaneously move all three axis at the same time.Most modern machines have it standard, but in the older ones it was a very expensive option "usually a parameter bit setting" That can be turned on by a technician for a healthy fee.I'm pretty sure that those routers will only allow XY movement or YZ movement or XZ movement. you can select any one of the planes by using the proper G code "G17 thru G19".That would be something you would need to investigate before you purchase. I'm sure you could find a used Milling center for short
money. Then you wouldn't have to limit yourself to just woods and plastics.

The CarveWright machine is capable of making the dash. Here is a video if you have a few minutes. Jump ahead about halfway or so to see it in action.
http://www.carvewright.com/cms/video (http://www.carvewright.com/cms/video)

An advantage to me of this machine is that the software and tool are well integrated such that no knowledge of G code or extensive CAD software is needed.

I'm going to make the shift/throttle handle "old school" with my table saw and band saw. I plan to get started on that this weekend.

Upkeep can be minimized with modern materials. I plan to apply West Systems epoxy and UV polyurethane. I will probably reinforce the shift handle with fiberglass cloth. The cloth all but disappears when the epoxy resin is applied. I built a rowing shell last winter from a CLCboats kit and have some experience with these building methods.

Rob M
03-04-2009, 10:35 PM
BG: Thanks. I have purchased two new windshields from Mario (one in case it breaks as they easily do). It will go on this spring.

MP: The Corsican is mine. It's #50, built in 1975.

DickB
03-15-2009, 06:55 PM
I got my machine last week and ran some trials this weekend. I used ¾” pine for these trials, but the final item will be out of 1-1/2” mahogany, so the body of the dash will be thicker. The carvings will have more depth to them than this – the gauges at the far end of the dash will be angled more than in this trial. The gauge ring came out nicely I think. While I was at it, I put a pattern into the background, or the main surface of the dash, which I think that I will keep. The logo came out OK but could be massaged some, as the letters are produced a little thicker due to the width of the carving bit. The letters could easily be painted white and then the top of the logo sanded a bit to make the edges crisp.


I ran an inverted gauge pattern as well, to see what it would look like to recess the gauges into the dash rather than stand them out. I think I like the original idea better.

Ed Donnelly
03-15-2009, 07:24 PM
If you want a little challenge, I have the perfect dash to do...........Ed

BigGrizzly
03-16-2009, 10:02 AM
OK DickB, you are cool, you are cool.

DickB
03-23-2009, 07:25 PM
I ran a trial piece over the weekend using some pine to check out the design. I cut it in “draft” mode which is lower quality (you can see some carving lines) but faster. Still, it took about 4-1/2 hours. I made a few minor design adjustments, but overall it came out as expected. The dash is just a bit oversize, as I spaced the gauges out just a bit to accommodate the angles. But, it is still sized so that the hole in the dash can be completely covered by the stock panel should I ever decide to do so.

The machine is capable of making complete cutouts, as for the switches, but not in 1-1/2” stock which is what I used. So, they are partially cut by machine to a depth of 1” and then I’ll rout an area on the back ½” deep to complete the opening. I only back routed one of them here for a trial switch fitment. The gauge openings will be cut with hole saws. The machine is not capable of making angled cutouts. I may rout the backside edge of the piece to inset the dash slightly, giving the body a thinner appearance of about ½ inch.

harbormaster
03-23-2009, 09:26 PM
That has got to be one of the coolest things I have ever seen on this website. I really mean that.

BigGrizzly
03-24-2009, 04:42 PM
DickB now that is what I call TOP DRAWER :worthy::worthy::worthy::worthy:

BUIZILLA
03-24-2009, 04:58 PM
I think you found a new calling...

Audiofn
03-24-2009, 06:40 PM
Very nice looking piece!

DickB
03-24-2009, 11:27 PM
Thanks guys. I'm taking a week's vacation, so the challenge for me will be to get the mahogany version cut, finished, and installed before ice out. If need be I guess I will launch with a hole in the dash and no gauges.

DickB
04-05-2009, 07:21 AM
I was hoping to finish fabrication this weekend, but I broke my cutting bit and could not complete the project. I need it for the switch cutouts and to cut the dash itself out of the blank. The blank is mounted in a sled which is used to improve resolution of the machine. The wood has some nice grain patterns in it which will be accentuated by the finish. It has not been as difficult to sand as I expected. From the driver’s perspective the gauges are nicely positioned. As the ice is still quite thick, I may get this completed before launch after all.

DickB
04-05-2009, 07:26 AM
I have my eye on this mahogany steering wheel on eBay...

zelatore
04-05-2009, 12:21 PM
I have my eye on this mahogany steering wheel on eBay...

I happen to prefer a banjo-style wheel myself...but can't fault your choice of wood. :yes:

DC18
04-05-2009, 02:21 PM
I got my machine last week and ran some trials this weekend. I used ¾” pine for these trials, but the final item will be out of 1-1/2” mahogany, so the body of the dash will be thicker. The carvings will have more depth to them than this – the gauges at the far end of the dash will be angled more than in this trial. The gauge ring came out nicely I think. While I was at it, I put a pattern into the background, or the main surface of the dash, which I think that I will keep. The logo came out OK but could be massaged some, as the letters are produced a little thicker due to the width of the carving bit. The letters could easily be painted white and then the top of the logo sanded a bit to make the edges crisp.


I ran an inverted gauge pattern as well, to see what it would look like to recess the gauges into the dash rather than stand them out. I think I like the original idea better.


WOW :worthy::worthy: That is AWSEOME! :beer: Looks like old school quality and workmanship. You will go far with this. Right boat, right wood, totally bitchin!

seano
04-07-2009, 12:19 PM
Now I've been on this site for almost 10 years and i have to say that this is by far the coolest thing I have ever seen.

A very beautiful piece. I can't wait to see how it looks when you have it in the boat.

DickB
04-13-2009, 08:52 PM
Thanks guys, the positive comments are encouraging!

My replacement cutting bit arrived Saturday, so I was able to complete fabrication of the dash this weekend. I just finished the second coat of Minwax Helmsman Spar Urethane and plan to add a coat each evening this week. Ice fishing was still going on at the lake this last weekend, so I think I will get the dash installed before spring launch. The next photos should be of the finished dash.

I did go ahead and order and receive a mahogany steering wheel, but I went with chrome slotted spokes to match the chrome steering wheel base on the boat, not the black as pictured. I found the center cap on the wheel uninspiring, so I started some designs to carve out of mahogany. So far I am leaning towards my interpretation of the Donzi prop logo, as you can see in the attached drawings.

I was half-heartedly fabricating a mahogany piece to replace the plastic handle of my Mercury Commander 3000 Classic throttle and shift control, but I’m not very far along on it. It became clear that my first attempt would not do. I think this project will have to wait until later, as I need to reinstall the handle to launch the boat.

I’m also toying with a mahogany case design for the wireless tab switches I recently built (but have not yet installed) to mount on the steering wheel. I think I can make a piece that will flow from the mahogany rim onto one of the spokes, and be quite functional. Both the center cap and tab switch case projects can be completed anytime after the boat is back on the water, as there will be essentially no downtime to install them.

The right side of my dash is a bit of a mess that I also plan to clean up with a mahogany piece. Today, I have the old school Bennett rocker tab switches, a Bennett LED tab indicator, a captain’s choice toggle switch, and a digital depth gauge mounted directly to the fiberglass. Nothing really matches, and it’s not laid out very well, because I added the tab indicator after the factory put in the other stuff, and I was working within the constraints of the factory holes and locations in the dash. For this project, I have on order a pair of white Contura momentary on–off–on rocker switches and an on-off switch that match the factory switches on the boat. These will replace the tab and captain’s choice switches, and will be integrated into a new panel that I have yet to design.

Just Say N20
04-13-2009, 09:15 PM
Beyond spectacular!

I'll bet your phone is already starting to ring off the hook. :yes:

glashole
04-14-2009, 07:20 AM
you should donate the test pieces to the board and we can auction them off

gcarter
04-14-2009, 07:42 AM
I like it!
Well done!

BigGrizzly
04-14-2009, 09:13 AM
Cool is all I can say except I hope you bough more then one spear bit.

DickB
04-19-2009, 09:01 AM
Bezels painted to match the stripe color.

Bubba Dog
04-19-2009, 09:17 AM
Man, that is sweet. I dig the grooves in the infield. How will you attach to the dash? That mahogany steering wheel and a mahog flag mast, would be very cool. Bubba

MOP
04-19-2009, 09:23 AM
More then Super, very special!!

Phil

Sweet Cheekz
04-19-2009, 10:13 AM
Absolutely beautiful!

Conquistador_del_mar
04-19-2009, 11:22 AM
Dick,
Spectacular looking dash! It is always fun to see what someone can design when they think outside the box as you do - refreshing! Bill

BUIZILLA
04-19-2009, 11:44 AM
a nice wood steering wheel, and wood shift knob, would round things out....

very classy :shades:

DickB
04-19-2009, 06:45 PM
The dash is attached from behind with screws. The grooves were an afterthought while designing, but I really like them.

I bought a mahogany steering wheel, but the finish on it was way to dark. I spent a good part of the afternoon stripping all the finish and stain, sanding it, and staining it to match the dash. I will be applying several coats of urethane this week.

My Mercury 3000 shifter has a plastic face plate. I removed this and applied adhesive-backed mahogany veneer. I'll finish this along with the wheel. I will make a mahogany handle for it eventually.

DickB
04-19-2009, 06:47 PM
you should donate the test pieces to the board and we can auction them off
That's a great idea, but it inspired me to do something better. Give me a couple of weeks.

DickB
05-20-2009, 09:54 PM
Steering wheel installed, with wood center cap.

SilverBack
05-21-2009, 06:28 AM
That is some unbelievable work!! It looks amazing!! Congratulations!! I bet there are some Classic guys with their mouth watering now!!!:tongue: Very Classy!!

BigGrizzly
05-21-2009, 08:46 AM
DickB, your really starting to pi$$ off some of the bling kings and me too:yes::yes: The real problem is that I am sure it looks better then the pictures.

DickB
05-21-2009, 12:56 PM
The real problem is that I am sure it looks better then the pictures.

Thanks. Yes, actually it does look better, especially in the sun. That last photo in particular is not too great as it was taken with my phone.

I will have more time on my hands come November and I am toying with the idea of a little custom wood dash design and fabrication business. If anyone is interested, send me a PM.

Just Say N20
05-21-2009, 12:58 PM
If anyone is interested, send me a PM.

IF anyone is interested?!?

You are a funny guy. :yes:

MOP
05-21-2009, 08:22 PM
Hmmm Maybe you can quit your day job!!! Many boaters and car buffs would love to have your handy work!

DickB
05-21-2009, 11:41 PM
Can you do one 6'6" long? :nilly:
Yes, although depending upon the design it could take a couple of days to fabricate.

DickB
05-21-2009, 11:42 PM
Hmmm Maybe you can quit your day job!!!
That is happening in November.